The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

[joel31]

Each to their own. Use the message from The Bible, The Tipitaka or whatever, to guide you to be a better person. But, sometimes, i think people take it too literally. Times have changed, the world has developed, the same 'following things blindly' approach doesn't work for everything.

If your diety, or God, is all forgiving, loves everyone etc, why does it matter? Will God not forgive some people, but forgive others?

Christians believe that he loves everyone and can forgive everyone if they seek it. Not all seek it so you could say he doesn't forgive all. But if you hated God would you really want to be with him for eternity which is what heaven is.

Do people in jail who have killed/raped, that 'discover God' in jail, still go to Heaven?

Christians believe that discovering God isn't enough. They need to say sorry and seek a relationship with him but if they do, God will forgive and yes they can go to heaven

Do people that don't follow a particular denomination, that go about their life respecting others and serving communities and being good people, get turned away for not believing?

Christians believe that it is not good enough to be a good person. You need to have repented and be in a relationship with God to go to heaven. Denomination isn't important as long as the beliefs don't conflict with the bible within context.

If you rock up at the Pearly gates, having not believed, and God is there with his list, checking people off, denies you entry. Does God forgive the one sin, "not believing" and let you in?

Christians believe that not believing is the only non-forgivable sin

[Bremsstrahlung]

Shoots down the argument straight away from another lefty aethist who wishes to take a pot shot at Christianity with selective material


Can't say I have read this edition but would not be surprised if it had references to John Wayne and Clint Eastwood being how the Yanks like to jazz shit up

So, do you disregard Leviticus where it mentions homosexuality as well? Or is that verse ok?
You can't refute something and cite the bible as a reason, but ignore other things...

So, I

[Bremsstrahlung]

Christians believe that he loves everyone and can forgive everyone if they seek it. Not all seek it so you could say he doesn't forgive all. But if you hated God would you really want to be with him for eternity which is what heaven is.


Christians believe that discovering God isn't enough. They need to say sorry and seek a relationship with him but if they do, God will forgive and yes they can go to heaven


Christians believe that it is not good enough to be a good person. You need to have repented and be in a relationship with God to go to heaven. Denomination isn't important as long as the beliefs don't conflict with the bible within context.


Christians believe that not believing is the only non-forgivable sin

A genuine and respectful, thank you for the way you answered.

[GazFish35]

Shoots down the argument straight away from {insert anyone in disagreement } who wishes to take a pot shot at {insert topic here} with selective material

isn't that the crux of so many issues?
theres so much bias in everything written, at any stage in history, that any information source cant really be trusted.


media don't care about the truth, only what version of events sells more papers get smore internt traffic through their sites or protects the stocks of companies invested in the media company, or vice versa.

and goverments are just as bad.

[MFKS]

The bible also has references to Homosexuality and its stance in other parts of the old testament and new testament.

Leviticus is just probably the most famous

[pv4]

I'm not a believer or a non-believer. I've actually been in a personal research experiment for the last year to truly figure out my beliefs on religion. And I've still not even gotten close to an answer for myself. There are many stories of the bible i believe - i believe there was a man who called himself Jesus Christ, and he had followers. I believe there was a man named Moses who managed to free his people from slavery. But I'm not convinced on the divinity on it all, yet. But I do like the morals I'm able to draw from a large amount of the stories I believe from the bible (and some I definitely do not believe) - and that to me is all that matters.

What i will say is a lot of the stabs at Christianity in this thread are directly on Old Testament things. The Old Testament was taken from the Hebrew Bible. So you're basically attacking Judaism (like the shellfish, pig skin, etc type stuff), rather than modern Christianity and the beliefs that a large amount of Christians hold.

FWIW in this last year I've spent a large amount of time in churches, in bible study groups, and what I find is there's not two people I meet that have absolutely the same beliefs on everything. It's incredibly varying as to what exactly each person subscribes to. And what I like about it all is that, particularly the church I go to, they encourage the freedom to choose what you believe exactly.

[MFKS]

I'm not a believer or a non-believer. I've actually been in a personal research experiment for the last year to truly figure out my beliefs on religion. And I've still not even gotten close to an answer for myself. There are many stories of the bible i believe - i believe there was a man who called himself Jesus Christ, and he had followers. I believe there was a man named Moses who managed to free his people from slavery. But I'm not convinced on the divinity on it all, yet.

What i will say is a lot of the stabs at Christianity in this thread are directly on Old Testament things. The Old Testament was taken from the Hebrew Bible. So you're basically attacking Judaism, rather than modern Christianity.

Well said. One of the biggest things with religion is that those who embrace it need to actually find it for themselves.

My story was I had it shoved in face as a kid rejected it and at a later age came back and looked into it a bit more and embraced it.

With your situation WLG you will eventually come to a position you sit comfortably with wherever that may be.


Interesting to see how many of the lefty aethists here having a great time taken potshots at Christianity have actually read the Bible/Koran in its entirety or any other book of god for that matter before coming to their conclusions that God is horseshit

[MFKS]

WLG on another note. Where the **** are the Sheep Quiz questions??

Some **** is gonna get barred here soon and your deprivation of the Sheep Quiz questions will be high on the list of reasons why the focus has turned to this thread

[pv4]

Well said. One of the biggest things with religion is that those who embrace it need to actually find it for themselves.

The church I've been going to is a Baptist Church, who believe in believer's baptism as opposed to infant baptism. Which I absolutely love, as it's not forcing the kids to be subscribed to it from birth. Sure, the kids are taken to church etc, but I love that brief amount of apparent freedom the Baptist church gives people. They want people to consciously believe and put themselves into the church, rather than force them in. But are also extremely happy and welcoming to people who are not yet sold.

[MFKS]

The church I've been going to is a Baptist Church, who believe in believer's baptism as opposed to infant baptism. Which I absolutely love, as it's not forcing the kids to be subscribed to it from birth. Sure, the kids are taken to church etc, but I love that brief amount of apparent freedom the Baptist church gives people. They want people to consciously believe and put themselves into the church, rather than force them in. But are also extremely happy and welcoming to people who are not yet sold.

One of the biggest problems with Islam is negated by this stance. The stance of choice. Islam does not have it

[Buddha]

Why are Christians the only religion that have need a mascot just to sell their stuff?

Like Christmas, it isn't in the bible, Jesus's birth is, but not Santa Claus.

Same with Easter, come Easter time we just hear about the Easter bunny this and Easter bunny that, don't hear about Jesus being nailed to the Cross?

You don't see The Jewish out celebrating with the Passover Kanagroo?

Muslims celebrating Ramadan with a Rooster?

And Halloween? What a farce, you go to church and get told Satan is the evil one blah blah blah, but once a year you party with the Bloke

Sort it out you lot

[The Dunster]

I'm not a believer or a non-believer. I've actually been in a personal research experiment for the last year to truly figure out my beliefs on religion. And I've still not even gotten close to an answer for myself. There are many stories of the bible i believe - i believe there was a man who called himself Jesus Christ, and he had followers. I believe there was a man named Moses who managed to free his people from slavery. But I'm not convinced on the divinity on it all, yet. But I do like the morals I'm able to draw from a large amount of the stories I believe from the bible (and some I definitely do not believe) - and that to me is all that matters.

What i will say is a lot of the stabs at Christianity in this thread are directly on Old Testament things. The Old Testament was taken from the Hebrew Bible. So you're basically attacking Judaism (like the shellfish, pig skin, etc type stuff), rather than modern Christianity and the beliefs that a large amount of Christians hold.

FWIW in this last year I've spent a large amount of time in churches, in bible study groups, and what I find is there's not two people I meet that have absolutely the same beliefs on everything. It's incredibly varying as to what exactly each person subscribes to. And what I like about it all is that, particularly the church I go to, they encourage the freedom to choose what you believe exactly.

You are an agnostic. It's a good thing because you neither take or reject anything without evidence.

[Skirt Boy]

Also I take it all you ****s are going to work next Thursday too and not observing JC's Birthday or once again does your hypocrisy not quite extend that far??

A festival would still take place between the middle of December and middle of January as it matches up with many of the pagan festivals North of the Alps for the Winter Solstice.

Don't kid yourself in thinking Christianity is unique in it's festivals.

[pv4]

You are an agnostic. It's a good thing because you neither take or reject anything without evidence.

An agnostic who is actively searching for the evidence.

[Blackmac79]

Forget who it's by, but the "mind of God" is a good book.

[q-money]

pv4 - did you get baptised bruv? i can totally do them if you're keen, we'll get griff and we'll do it in the styx

[Bremsstrahlung]

Well said. One of the biggest things with religion is that those who embrace it need to actually find it for themselves.

My story was I had it shoved in face as a kid rejected it and at a later age came back and looked into it a bit more and embraced it.

With your situation WLG you will eventually come to a position you sit comfortably with wherever that may be.


Interesting to see how many of the lefty aethists here having a great time taken potshots at Christianity have actually read the Bible/Koran in its entirety or any other book of god for that matter before coming to their conclusions that God is horseshit

I had Catholic schooling from K-12. I just kind of went along with things until about Year 5, when I just couldn't handle the onslaught/constant shoving religion down my throat. As i got older, I had many questions through high school and Religion didn't have any answers/didn't appeal to me... Other interests took over and I haven't really had a need to seek anything more from religion since. It was compulsory to study Religion in 11/12 where we took a step back from the "pure catholic" driven agenda of catholic schools up to this point, and had an objective look at various religions, world peace and a few other topics, which was really great.
I think each religion, has important messages. I agree with various beliefs from a variety of difference sources.
I developed an interest in health and science, and through High School and Uni undertook a number of science and medical courses. All stressing the importance of evidence-based-practice. The need for evidence based practice in my career, largely influenced my ability to accept religion on the same scale as some people, due to the importance of "believing" and not being presented with many facts/very much evidence.

I would consider myself an agnostic. Like pv4, I can believe that there was a Jesus, had followers, and all of that. But it loses me with the "magical" "miracle" "divinity" side of things, that i can't quite bring myself to believe.
Maybe one day, it will become clear. Maybe not.

The underlying messages though, Treat everyone equally, etc are pretty good foundations to live life.

[pv4]

pv4 - did you get baptised bruv? i can totally do them if you're keen, we'll get griff and we'll do it in the styx

let's do it m8.

[joel31]

Why are Christians the only religion that have need a mascot just to sell their stuff?

Like Christmas, it isn't in the bible, Jesus's birth is, but not Santa Claus.

Same with Easter, come Easter time we just hear about the Easter bunny this and Easter bunny that, don't hear about Jesus being nailed to the Cross?

You don't see The Jewish out celebrating with the Passover Kanagroo?

Muslims celebrating Ramadan with a Rooster?

And Halloween? What a farce, you go to church and get told Satan is the evil one blah blah blah, but once a year you party with the Bloke

Sort it out you lot

The commercialisation of Christmas isn't really the fault of Christians, it is fault of this consumeristic society that took a largely celebrated holiday and turned it into something to market.

99% of the stuff about Christmas and Easter misses the point of both of them

[MFKS]

Learn a bit more about the Islam denominations before you swipe with such a broad brush.
Different denominations of the faith interpret and realise their text in different ways, just like Christians around the world.

The media tend to only present one side of this multi-faceted faith. And governments around the world are quick to play on, and overhype, the fear angle in order to introduce security measures designed to control the local populations.

The Christian faith is not without it's fair share of violence and intolerant killings throughout it's history too.

Islam's "pretty clear" view on atheism isn't as clear, or as practised, by the wider Islamic followers and rupert Murdoch and western political leaders are happy for us to believe.

Firstly agree with you media distorts shit to the angle they wish to show. Governments also lie and deceive no arguments there

Secondly Christians are not without sin over history either for their atrocities on makind. Those who partake will have been dealt with on judgement day anyway

Thirdly as far as having a swipe at islam how am I making generalisations about it??

I first up said the faith oppresses women.

Sura 4:34
Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them

Thats from their Quran.

Explain to me where it is you disagree that Islam does not oppress women??

As for my claims that islam treats aethists differently. Anyone born to a mulsim parent is a muslim. There is no choice in the situation they are. If they choose to deny gods existence discrimination/victimisation/harassment/denying of legal rights/imprisonment/execution await. Apostasy is the crime and these are the punishments depending where abouts in the world you are.

Denying Gods existence to muslims isn't a good thing for atheists.

The other ironic thing I find about this is the leftist apologetic attitude. This thread has been littered with offensive views from atheists bagging christians like it is a fashionable thing to do yet no one steps up to defend the christians from persecution from their beliefs yet as soon as the islamic faith is held to account for their issues some one can not wait to jump in and defend them.

Why can they not defend themselves?? Why are they immune from Criticism??
My religion can defend itself and takes criticism all the time.



Thing is my religion can stand up for itself and believers in it can be tolerant of others with opposing views yet why is it the left feel the need to defend this religion who can not defend itself from criticism and lash out with violence and play the persecution card as soon as anyone offers any criticism or disagrees with their ways???