SubCommittee meeting Dec6

[plague]

Same argument I use for downloading music. I download music that I wouldn't buy, so the artist isn't disadvantaged. If anything, it helps me find way more artists that I end up liking because I can sample more of their product. If I like an artist enough, I trust that I'll like a new album and I buy, and if it means I end up paying for tickets to see them live as well, they win in the long run.

I appreciate your honesty on this but holy hell my man that is the worst thing I've ever read.

[Jeterpool]

Depends what action they would take if forced to choose. Those 100 people might just settle for sitting on the hill, and because they're now sitting in the sun, surrounded by ****ing annoying kids running around them for 90minutes, they suddenly don't enjoy their matchday experience anymore, and subsequently don't renew membership the following year. If a fancy pants seat is out of their budget, GA might be the only option available to them. Do we want to turn those people away? Or is it better to get their GA money and fill up seats?
.

I can understand that. I suggest that's the attitude of the club too.

[Macca]

I appreciate your honesty on this but holy hell my man that is the worst thing I've ever read.

A little off topic from the thread. But I think the music piracy thing is just a culture. A lot of people grew up buying a lot of records/cd's and finding music that way. Personally, I find it hard to justify going and buying a CD when I can jump on youtube and listen to whatever I want whenever I want. And by extension, if I can do that, to the consumer there's little difference between that and piracy.

As many people have noted and companies have discovered though, often the primary driver isn't lack of willingness to pay but the overwhelming convenience of it. Thus the rise of services based around the consumer's needs, from music streaming like Pandora, Spotify, Google music etc to Netflix, Stan and whatever else is out there. Apparently the artists make a pittance from these most of the time. But its better than nothing and is often a precursor to actual sales, live music attendance, merch sales etc. if people like what they're getting.

Not sure if there's a parallel to draw here to Jets so I don't think I'll bother trying

[plague]

A little off topic from the thread. But I think the music piracy thing is just a culture.

Not sure if there's a parallel to draw here to Jets so I don't think I'll bother trying

No, I think you've drawn a great parallel.
People just have that attitude that if they can have it, they take it.
It's still stealing, and it's illegal, but the old 'victimless crime' chestnut gets rolled out everytime and we are all cool cool with it................................................ .............................right up until we are the ones affected.

[halo se7en]

I appreciate your honesty on this but holy hell my man that is the worst thing I've ever read.

Really? You need to read more

I could run through maybe 30-40 artists that I've found & subsequently bought music from that I wouldn't have otherwise known about if it wasn't for downloading their stuff first - mind you, I'm going back a few years before Pandora, Soundcloud etc all popped up so it's much easier to find new music now without illegally downloading.

[plague]

Really? You need to read more

Yeah sorry that was a bit over the top plus it pretty much assumes The Member never existed which would be remiss of me.

[lquiquer]

I doubt the subcommittee is keen to discuss music on the 6th?... But I might be wrong...

[halo se7en]

No, I think you've drawn a great parallel.
People just have that attitude that if they can have it, they take it.
It's still stealing, and it's illegal, but the old 'victimless crime' chestnut gets rolled out everytime and we are all cool cool with it................................................ .............................right up until we are the ones affected.

I think the moral high horse for downloading music bolted years ago.

And usually those sitting on the horse are the same people who drift above the speed limit every now and then, cross the road on a red light, photocopy stuff out of books, keep the extra change they got from a checkout chick.... and so on, blah blah blah....

Anyway, you like to show disgust but don't offer much else. Back to the Jets, why is the seat thing a problem? I have a problem with people who are in the wrong seats and refuse to move for the actual ticketholders, but otherwise, what's the issue?

And I do hope the subcomm get something out of this discussion as to whether it's worth raising or not.... rather than me just derailing a thread

[plague]

Anyway, you like to show disgust but don't offer much else. Back to the Jets, why is the seat thing a problem? I have a problem with people who are in the wrong seats and refuse to move for the actual ticketholders, but otherwise, what's the issue?

Nah, no disgust. I just marvel how some people justify their actions. It's always an interesting discussion.

The seat thing is a problem for 'fans' paying top dollar for something then seeing someone getting the same product much cheaper.
The question to the club is whether they will look after the fans who paid top dollar by policing the system (and risk losing fans who don't want to pay top dollar), or letting it stay as is and risking revenue from the fans who save the cash and do the same rort.

I think it's a valid question.

[Wilso8948]

I honestly don't see a massive problem with it. Its up to the club. People will always try and get something for nothing. I do the exact opposite. I have a Silver membership and sit in the angled bay that I think is GA. I avoid the sun and the little one can run around a bit without pissing too many people off. I get a seat and I'm happy.

If the Jets start winning and becoming a powerhouse and all of a sudden we have night games with packed stadiums I fully expect whoever sits in my Eastern grandstand seat to GTFO. I also have the assurance that my seat is there for all those times the Jets make the finals and even better yet get a home semi.

LOL

[pv4]

I know I could reduce my membership level from Silver to GA and go and sit in the stands because I know my ticket is going to be checked.

The way I look at it, are these people actually ripping the club off by taking that mindset? There's $80 difference between Red ($170) and Silver single adult membership but honestly, most of the Eastern bay is Gold so that a difference of $180.

If there are, for this example, 100 people who do take this approach every year and sit in the gold bays for a season despite having a GA card, the club are missing out on $11,800 in revenue. My bet is there are lots more that 100 who do it. Not to mention the blow-ins that go to the odd match.

We're actually ripping our own club off. This amount, when added up each year across all ticket classes, could fund some additional training gear, a few extra school visits, some increased advertising or even a coach or support staff. Would the amount we gain be off-set by additional security? Maybe. Would policing the ticketing harder actually drive people away? Perhaps.

So instead of thinking "it's a two-minute inconvenience" I'm actually looking at it as we're limiting the ability of our club to progress by not allowing them to maximise the match day revenue..

Not only that, but on a plane, I can't pay for a standard seat and expect to walk into first class and sit where I want.

Genuinely sounds like you're asking people not to go to games and make the most out of it to me.

[GazFish35]

If nothing else this discussion shows how the club decision makers are ****ed no matter their course of action.

Spose it comes down to them being transparent in the principles they use to guide their decisions.

Maybe if enforcing seating is too difficult, making gold memberships more valuable in terms of merch, discounts, access to players, special events etc. might be the way to make sure those paying for the premium seats feel like they're getting better value for money.

[The Dunster]

I know I could reduce my membership level from Silver to GA and go and sit in the stands because I know my ticket is going to be checked.

The way I look at it, are these people actually ripping the club off by taking that mindset? There's $80 difference between Red ($170) and Silver single adult membership but honestly, most of the Eastern bay is Gold so that a difference of $180.

If there are, for this example, 100 people who do take this approach every year and sit in the gold bays for a season despite having a GA card, the club are missing out on $11,800 in revenue. My bet is there are lots more that 100 who do it. Not to mention the blow-ins that go to the odd match.

We're actually ripping our own club off. This amount, when added up each year across all ticket classes, could fund some additional training gear, a few extra school visits, some increased advertising or even a coach or support staff. Would the amount we gain be off-set by additional security? Maybe. Would policing the ticketing harder actually drive people away? Perhaps.

So instead of thinking "it's a two-minute inconvenience" I'm actually looking at it as we're limiting the ability of our club to progress by not allowing them to maximise the match day revenue..

Not only that, but on a plane, I can't pay for a standard seat and expect to walk into first class and sit where I want.

The problem is that the market mechanism is failing. So that either means prices are too high, the income of fans is too low, or a combination of both.
I paid $82 for two tickets on the weekend. For me that's not an issue but for a lot of people that's a hell of a lot of money to spend on watching a team that struggles to aim up.
I was a member from the start of the league and yes I've lost count of the people I had to move from my seats when I arrived - but for better or worse that's the type of world we live in now.
The majority of people now are as bad as the puppet master leisure classes running the planet into oblivion - and the problem is a lot deeper than people trying for a free seating upgrade.

Policing it would cost a lot of money and for what ? You piss off the drop ins so they stop coming. And if you piss off the gold and plat members so what - the club already has their money so the club has no reason to police it. Because regardless of what they do they know the Gold and Plat types will sign up again next year for the same level or worse of shit being delivered to them.

That's why the club treats everyone like shit - because they know that no matter what happens they have a core group of members with more money than sense.

Note: I still think it's wrong to sit in an area you didn't pay for and wouldn't do it myself. Nor as a musician would I not pay for music I had in my possession.

[pv4]

There are so many great questions and issues that the power of the members have to make our club so much better than it has been for the last squillion years and we're giving them this fxxxing red herring that they're going to waffle on about for 4+ hours and spend way too much time and effort on while ignoring legit issues like football philosophy, club&town colours, etc.

[Macca]

They definitely are Gaz. Especially given the club's past, anything and everything is going to be picked apart mercilessly regardless of merit or intent. As you said, as long as they provide some reasonable justification that people can understand (agreement not necessary) then they're probably going alright.

I think you are spot on with the last bit. When seating in the stadium isn't a valuable commodity (10k attendance in a 30k stadium), then having a premium on the privilege to reserve a seat is pretty meaningless. Yes, not all seats are the same and as I said earlier the Eastern stand is obviously better real estate, but I digress. Gold member only sales (or early access) on merch is a possibility. Something extra in the pack maybe would be a nice touch, who knows what. I'm sure there are already extra benefits from the membership, cause I vaguely remember the lists being different sizes when I looked at them a few years ago. But I would hazard a guess that most of the benefits wouldn't mean much to a lot of people. Any valuable benefit not related to seating I think would be a good start.

[pv4]

Not only that, but on a plane, I can't pay for a standard seat and expect to walk into first class and sit where I want.

People get offered free upgrades all the time.

[pv4]

If nothing else this discussion shows how the club decision makers are ****ed no matter their course of action.

Spose it comes down to them being transparent in the principles they use to guide their decisions.

Which makes it so ridiculous that they ever went away from club colours choice that more than three quarters of the supporter base voted for.

[Jeterpool]

The problem is that the market mechanism is failing. So that either means prices are too high, the income of fans is too low, or a combination of both.
I paid $82 for two tickets on the weekend. For me that's not an issue but for a lot of people that's a hell of a lot of money to spend on watching a team that struggles to aim up.
I was a member from the start of the league and yes I've lost count of the people I had to move from my seats when I arrived - but for better or worse that's the type of world we live in now.
The majority of people now are as bad as the puppet master leisure classes running the planet into oblivion - and the problem is a lot deeper than people trying for a free seating upgrade.

Policing it would cost a lot of money and for what ? You piss off the drop ins so they stop coming. And if you piss off the gold and plat members so what - the club already has there money so the club has no reason to police it. Because regardless of what they do they know the Gold and Plat types will sign up again next year for the same level or worse of shit being delivered to them.

That's why the club treats everyone like shit - because they know that no matter what happens they have a core group of members with more money than sense.

Note: I still think it's wrong to sit in an area you didn't pay for and wouldn't do it myself. Nor as a musician would I not pay for music I had in my possession.

Good points.

There are so many great questions and issues that the power of the members have to make our club so much better than it has been for the last squillion years and we're giving them this fxxxing red herring that they're going to waffle on about for 4+ hours and spend way too much time and effort on while ignoring legit issues like football philosophy, club&town colours, etc.

Very true. We need to sort the club colours issue once and for all because of something once said. If Tinkler hadn't changed the colours all those years ago, it would seriously be a non-issue.

They definitely are Gaz. Especially given the club's past, anything and everything is going to be picked apart mercilessly regardless of merit or intent. As you said, as long as they provide some reasonable justification that people can understand (agreement not necessary) then they're probably going alright.

I think you are spot on with the last bit. When seating in the stadium isn't a valuable commodity (10k attendance in a 30k stadium), then having a premium on the privilege to reserve a seat is pretty meaningless. Yes, not all seats are the same and as I said earlier the Eastern stand is obviously better real estate, but I digress. Gold member only sales (or early access) on merch is a possibility. Something extra in the pack maybe would be a nice touch, who knows what. I'm sure there are already extra benefits from the membership, cause I vaguely remember the lists being different sizes when I looked at them a few years ago. But I would hazard a guess that most of the benefits wouldn't mean much to a lot of people. Any valuable benefit not related to seating I think would be a good start.

Some good points as wel. The bit I highlighted certainly rings true.

[Jeterpool]

People get offered free upgrades all the time.

That's different. They asked and were awarded the upgrade. They didn't simply try and overtake it.

And I know why you're picking on that point try be more subtle.

[The Dunster]

Legitimate Questions:
When will the club stop signing NPL standard players to six figure contracts ?
How many more years of injury woes until the club admits it's more than just bad luck?
When will the club make itself competitive by actually buying marquee level players ?
When will the club stop wasting money developing talent when they can poach them from other clubs for a lot less money.
By when does the management expect the Jets to be the best team in the A-league ?
When is the club going to realise that rookie or coaches with poor records are not capable of advancing the Club towards being a top 4 club.

... and so on.