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Thread: The EPL Thread aka Euro Snobs

  1. #941
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    Werner rumoured to have a 25M release clause. Sign him up.

  2. #942
    Senior Member Jetmaster's Avatar
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    And another stupid "forensic" decision against Villa - result the fans didn't cheer when they did score.

  3. #943
    aka WLG pv4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetmaster View Post
    And another stupid "forensic" decision against Villa
    I'm curious to hear your own and other peoples views who don't like the hawkeye offside calls as to what scale, distance, measurement you'd be happy for the VAR to call offside at? Does the player need to be a certain amount of millimetres, centimetres, metres offside for you to be satisfied with the VAR ruling on it? What scale are you after? I'm struggling to understand where the "forensic" vs "I'll allow it" line is, in your opinion. I'm trying to talk about the hawkeye offside calls in isolation here, not attempting to bring up the entire VAR existence debate.

    To me it seems to be the least subjective ruling VAR can make, I don't fully understand the negative feelings towards it. If a part of your body which can legally score is offside, then you're offside, right?
    OK

  4. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by pv4 View Post
    I'm curious to hear your own and other peoples views who don't like the hawkeye offside calls as to what scale, distance, measurement you'd be happy for the VAR to call offside at? Does the player need to be a certain amount of millimetres, centimetres, metres offside for you to be satisfied with the VAR ruling on it? What scale are you after? I'm struggling to understand where the "forensic" vs "I'll allow it" line is, in your opinion. I'm trying to talk about the hawkeye offside calls in isolation here, not attempting to bring up the entire VAR existence debate.

    To me it seems to be the least subjective ruling VAR can make, I don't fully understand the negative feelings towards it. If a part of your body which can legally score is offside, then you're offside, right?
    Because it removes the human element.

    Every single referee in no matter what sport will referee in a different way. It removes the spanner in the works that a referee can provide to the game.

    Say you're a boss of the midfield and don't mind some argy bargy. Yet the referee on the day is pretty dam strict.........You have to adapt. The referee the following week is more forgiving so you can play fully to your strengths.

  5. #945
    Senior Member MFKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pv4 View Post
    I'm curious to hear your own and other peoples views who don't like the hawkeye offside calls as to what scale, distance, measurement you'd be happy for the VAR to call offside at? Does the player need to be a certain amount of millimetres, centimetres, metres offside for you to be satisfied with the VAR ruling on it? What scale are you after? I'm struggling to understand where the "forensic" vs "I'll allow it" line is, in your opinion. I'm trying to talk about the hawkeye offside calls in isolation here, not attempting to bring up the entire VAR existence debate.

    To me it seems to be the least subjective ruling VAR can make, I don't fully understand the negative feelings towards it. If a part of your body which can legally score is offside, then you're offside, right?
    Thought the thing was meant to be for clear and obvious errors??

    If we are trying to ascertain whether a bloke 30m away from the defender is offside by a bee's dick or 2 then it ain't a clear and obvious error is it??
    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post

    Double-eff-aye should introduce a 3rd division and dump these ice addict welfare living scumbags straight there. dont even let them get their stink anywhere near 2nd division.

  6. #946
    There is no line on the human body to determine exactly where your legal and illegal goal scoring parts of your body are. This makes it a subjective decision by the video assistant referee as to where your offside parts begin.
    Quote Originally Posted by pv4 View Post
    If a part of your body which can legally score is offside, then you're offside, right?

  7. #947
    Senior Member Frodo's Avatar
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    Also, screw this "any body parts that can legally score must be onside" crap. It's feet. If your feet are behind the defender, you're onside. Being tall and in full lean shouldn't be a disadvantage.

    VAR is a joke. If a linesman stuffs up on a split second decision, so be it. We've lost UCL finals and everything to bad calls. But that's part of the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeterpool View Post
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  8. #948
    Senior Member Jetmaster's Avatar
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    "Forensic" is what IFAB are calling these decisions as they are looking at making changes.
    The International Football Association Board (IFAB), which makes the game’s laws, claims VAR should only overturn blatant errors rather than forensically examine replays looking for potential offsides.
    Apparently in MLS the VAR has a cursory look in real time. If it isn't obvious it is left as is. I could live with that. There is no way the current system can be 100% accurate. There is no margin of error at all considered which really is bizarre.
    As they said in a podcast this week an offside was always by either a flag up or down, so simple....definitely less aggro when there is human error. Both the offside and handball laws are now not being applied in the spirit intended. Offside was always meant to stop "lingering" near the goal.
    The whole point is the effect on the feel of the game, not whether a decision is right or not....that's how I feel anyway.
    Last edited by Jetmaster; 02-01-2020 at 07:45 PM.

  9. #949
    aka WLG pv4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodo View Post
    Also, screw this "any body parts that can legally score must be onside" crap. It's feet. If your feet are behind the defender, you're onside. Being tall and in full lean shouldn't be a disadvantage.

    VAR is a joke. If a linesman stuffs up on a split second decision, so be it. We've lost UCL finals and everything to bad calls. But that's part of the game.
    So you're happy with the Grealish one, given it was his foot?

    Membah - unless you're a backwards country still using imperial than a millimetre is clearly and obviously a millimetre. Using this hawkeye forensic technology is the closest thing we humans have to getting this clearer and more obvious.

    SB - a human is still on the end of the VAR, as proven by basically any decision handed to the Sp*rs or any VAR intervention in the AL to date.

    Jetmaster - I appreciate your real time views. That makes more sense. If we're using the tech though, it seems ignorant not to invest that time to get it right. AR's encouraged to keep their flag down until the play stops I think is a good practice for the system as it still let's the play flow until the goal. It's that time in limbo afterwards that is the killer, but again that's arguing VAR in general rather than this argument in isolation.
    OK

  10. #950
    Senior Member MFKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pv4 View Post
    So you're happy with the Grealish one, given it was his foot?

    Membah - unless you're a backwards country still using imperial than a millimetre is clearly and obviously a millimetre. Using this hawkeye forensic technology is the closest thing we humans have to getting this clearer and more obvious.

    SB - a human is still on the end of the VAR, as proven by basically any decision handed to the Sp*rs or any VAR intervention in the AL to date.

    Jetmaster - I appreciate your real time views. That makes more sense. If we're using the tech though, it seems ignorant not to invest that time to get it right. AR's encouraged to keep their flag down until the play stops I think is a good practice for the system as it still let's the play flow until the goal. It's that time in limbo afterwards that is the killer, but again that's arguing VAR in general rather than this argument in isolation.
    WLG

    If they spending a couple of minutes assessing it it ain't clear and obvious

    It should be a quick glance and that ****s is offside
    Or that **** is onside
    It not rocket science

    If they need to draw lines to ascertain small infractions then it ain't clear and obvious

    As for Hawkeye
    The thing is shit. It makes balls in the cricket miss the stumps when they ain't gonna all the time.

    I got zero confidence in the thing as it will **** up LBWs all the time
    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post

    Double-eff-aye should introduce a 3rd division and dump these ice addict welfare living scumbags straight there. dont even let them get their stink anywhere near 2nd division.

  11. #951
    Senior Member Jetmaster's Avatar
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    What was wrong with the old rule - if in doubt benefit goes to attacking team. Use that real time first view and all will be good. There will always be whinging about a decision whichever way it goes.

    Again I am pushing the spirit of the law, not accuracy. Cancelling great goals due to the width of a pubic hair is causing damage.
    Only one bloke on this foz constantly makes me laugh Plague and it ain't you - MFKS

  12. #952
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    Catch 22.
    Imo it’s similar to goal line technology. There’s an objective answer.
    Offside is tricky. And tbh I don’t know if I like the way it is unfolding but there’s no other way really?

    Linesman can’t be given right of first refusal “because what if it’s onside and they score?!?”
    So they leave their flag down, play on for any closer call. This leads to defenders being pissed, fans wondering wtf is happening and doesn’t account for things that happen afterwards. They do occasionally come back to the offside , if nothing comes of the attack immediately. But there’s corners, free kicks and field position amongst other things being given in lieu of making a decision.

    As a fan, I don’t want to see goals rules out. Wolves goal should have stood and imo even as a Liverpool supporter at the ground, it was frustrating. That moment was elation for wolves and a big redeeming F you to VAR in their opinion, the celebration was great and Anfield went silent. Only for it to be overuled for a hand?

    Unfortunately, if you have the technology, and don’t use it, that is often worse.
    What’s the margin of error that determines if it’s clear and obvious? Do you get a 5cm line with 2.5cm either side and use that? It’s a yes or no answer though.
    I don’t mind the MLS approach as stated but you will then have people scrutinising the officials saying you can clearly see this frozen frame where his left nipple is in front.


    Another thing that I have thought about was evident in the Liverpool wolves game.
    Liverpool’s goal, the Liverpool players protest like crazy they think they have been dudded - VAR review - goal.

    Wolves goal, I don’t think a single Liverpool player thought he was offside. They collected the ball and ran to halfway to “react” and resume the game. VAR intervened then and overuled the decision for a mm.

    Is there merit to a “challenge”? Liverpool can challenge the first one. They wouldn’t have challenged the second goal.
    Granted it can be used as a time wasting or Hail Mary. It would probably prevent as many stoppages as it creates though.
    The players immediate reactions to both these situation was interesting imo. Nobody wanted wolves goal to be reviewed.

  13. #953
    космонавт-исследователь boz-monaut's Avatar
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    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50987245

    Klopp has said that having this much football over Christmas is bad for relationships with the rest of your family

    he's got a point

    but then again if you've got extended family over watching sport is much better than having to talk to them

  14. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by boz-monaut View Post
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50987245

    Klopp has said that having this much football over Christmas is bad for relationships with the rest of your family

    he's got a point

    but then again if you've got extended family over watching sport is much better than having to talk to them
    **** him.

    This much football has been a feature of the English game for decades. No need to change. If a manager can't manage his squad to handle it then he isn't a good manager is he?

  15. #955
    космонавт-исследователь boz-monaut's Avatar
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    and how many games has Klopp watched Liverpool lose over the break?

    it's not just Klopp saying this, every single manager is saying this

    besides the fact the point he was humorously making was not even about football at all

    silly boy

  16. #956
    Senior Member StannyCFCJET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boz-monaut View Post
    and how many games has Klopp watched Liverpool lose over the break?

    it's not just Klopp saying this, every single manager is saying this

    besides the fact the point he was humorously making was not even about football at all

    silly boy
    Every single manager? Umm dont think so

  17. #957
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    Klopp has always not liked the fixture of the English competition due to all the cups.

    Compounded this year by club World Cup and refusal to reschedule the league cup game.

  18. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by boz-monaut View Post
    and how many games has Klopp watched Liverpool lose over the break?

    it's not just Klopp saying this, every single manager is saying this

    besides the fact the point he was humorously making was not even about football at all

    silly boy
    Silly?

    No. Realist.

    He KNEW as do all managers know how much football is played in England. He is a manager and it's his job to manage the squad. That's all there is to it.

    They are allowed a squad of 25.............That's two starting 11's. Short of a lasagna poisoning. There really isn't an excuse.

  19. #959
    Senior Member Frodo's Avatar
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    Yeah, Klopp can shove his whinging about fixture congestion up his arse. He has one of the top 2 most expensively assembled squads in world football and he wants to complain about how hard his life is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeterpool View Post
    I do it just for you. My goal in life is to have a quote in someone's signature.

  20. #960
    космонавт-исследователь boz-monaut's Avatar
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    interesting that you support a team managed by Jose Mourninho yet complain about whinging managers

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