16/17 HAL Round 22 | Newcastle Jets v Brisbane Roar | Sun 5th Mar 2017 7:00pm

[pv4]

For someone to get two yellows in quick succession, the second needs to be water tight, like a studs up for example. Good refs will usually give a quick "that's your last chance" warning.

I disagree. A yellow card is a yellow card, regardless of what the player has already. I despise the "ease" of refs handing out players first cheese (particularly at 75 mins onwards, even for subs who haven't had a game full of warnings), but the insane reluctance to give the 2nd. It is severe double standards and just so, so inconsistent. Refs all over the world are criminals at this.

But, I didn't see Hoffman's second yellow as even a foul, let alone a yellow card offence. So in this example, IMO it should have just been play on.

But if Hoffman survived that challenge, and did something "minor" but yellow card worthy, I am all for the ref to give him a yellow and therefore a red.

[pv4]

Fwiw I thought the team really dug deep when down to 10 men. We weren't any shitter than we were, or usually are, with 11 men. So fair play, we hung in there as much as we probably would have with the extra man.

I agree fully with Wilso about our pen - not even close to a pen. Corey Brown doesn't go between Kokko's legs, and doesn't kick Kokko before getting the ball, so by definition he gets the ball from Kokko's side. It just so happened that Kokko trailed his leg sideways to make contact with Brown. Winning the ball cleanly, and then getting kicked by a bloke, is never a foul. But it is nice to have some favour go to us though.

[Macca]

I used to agree with you, and still do hate the fact that before 30 minutes in a game you usually have to murder someone to get a yellow card, where as you said last 20 minutes they hand them out like candy.

But it goes along the same lines as the change where they no longer hand out a red card and a penalty unless its seriously bad, because its just too big an impact on the game. My mate who has done some reffing has told me it has nothing to do with refs being consistent and he readily admits that they change their behaviour game to game, because its more about them managing the game and allowing a good fair contest than it is policing everything to the letter of the law, the best word to use is discretion.

In the same way that refs don't usually card people for swearing at a decision they disagree with, if its sort of.. general frustration, while they are well within their rights to.

When it was put to me this way I changed my opinion, and do agree with the sentiment that if someone is gonna get a second yellow within a few minutes it needs to be well worth it. Not something that's controversial to even be a foul.

I'm obviously biased but the reffing seemed so against us last night. Hoffmans first, ok its allowed but you see way worse go unpunished every week. Kokko got carded for putting his arms up after being fouled for the umpteenth time (as far as I can tell?) and getting no joy all evening. Meanwhile they had a couple of cynical fouls or timewasting / dissent actions the ref ignored. Its too easy to say it but it really does feel like we got stitched up this week.

[pv4]

But it goes along the same lines as the change where they no longer hand out a red card and a penalty unless its seriously bad, because its just too big an impact on the game.

FFV put up a video on youtube explaining new rules. Two rules that are "new" that were interesting is if a player denies a clear goal scoring opportunity outside of the box, instant red (existing rule). But if IN the box a player denies a clear goal scoring opportunity but attempts to get the ball, it is only a yellow. But if he/she denies a clear goal scoring opportunity but doesn't attempt to get the ball, straight red.

A day later I watched Manny Muscat escape a "clear" red card offence v Sydney FC by denying a clear goal scoring opportunity in the box and not attempting to get the ball. But luckily for karma-sake, Muscat was stupid enough to man handle Brosque not long after and earn his second yellow.

[RAM]

Ref ****ed the game.

PV4 is technically right, but not in the commonsense application of the laws of the game. Hope he's not a ref.

Our pen was soft and so was theirs. But instead of being able to go blow for blow with the Roar, we were reduced to containment by a silly red card.

Season over.

[Wilso8948]

he readily admits that they change their behaviour game to game, because its more about them managing the game and allowing a good fair contest than it is policing everything to the letter of the law, the best word to use is discretion

Ah this always concerns me. A ref is a ref. Not God, not a player, not a coach and certainly not anyone who should have any emotional or opinion on the outcome of any game. I've had a ref once say to me "I think a draw is a pretty fair result". Sorry but they should have no opinion whatsoever on the result.

[Wilso8948]

Ref ****ed the game.

PV4 is technically right, but not in the commonsense application of the laws of the game. Hope he's not a ref.

Our pen was soft and so was theirs. But instead of being able to go blow for blow with the Roar, we were reduced to containment by a silly red card.

Season over.

Agree with everything bar the season being over. I don't really believe we will make the finals however I'm willing to hold off on writing them off until its mathematically impossible. Wanderers really were that bad this weekend and until we can't catch them then there's always a chance.

Won't matter though as 6th will be out first week of the finals anyway.

[pv4]

Ah this always concerns me. A ref is a ref. Not God, not a player, not a coach and certainly not anyone who should have any emotional or opinion on the outcome of any game. I've had a ref once say to me "I think a draw is a pretty fair result". Sorry but they should have no opinion whatsoever on the result.

A ref told me yesterday when watching the Jerks game that refs distinguish between a foul whenever, and a foul when an attack is "promising". Apparently if the Hoffman second yellow challenge happened further back in the field it would have been only a foul. But because the attack was "promising" it was a yellow, according to the ref.

That level of subjectivity just pains my brain.

[Macca]

I think you're taking that one a bit far by implying he decided the scores should be level and took actions to make that the case. A ref can have his opinion (separate to how he officiates the game) on how the game went.

I'm not saying refs should treat teams differently. Just that if you are reffing an under 16s game with some blokes who are 45kg and some 90 you can't just let the huge kids go around breaking bones. You usually get a picture of the "physicality level" of a match at some point and ref it to that, as long as both teams are happy with where its set at you usually have a good game with few complaints. That's what I meant by allowing a fair contest. If one team is chopping the other to pieces and the ref thinks its fine but the other team doesn't, then things can go downhill, and this is where the game management and discretion need to be used. I hate refs that want to be the star of the show, but these situations are when you can appreciate a ref wanting to establish on what terms the game is to be played early in the piece.

Don't get me wrong this has nothing to do with the Jets game last night. Personally it seems like the ref had a chip on his shoulder about players not respecting him, and chose to inflate his ego largely at our expense. What could have been a thrilling end to end game was ruined as a result (again, not that refs chief priority should be to produce an entertaining game)

[Macca]

A ref told me yesterday when watching the Jerks game that refs distinguish between a foul whenever, and a foul when an attack is "promising". Apparently if the Hoffman second yellow challenge happened further back in the field it would have been only a foul. But because the attack was "promising" it was a yellow, according to the ref.

That level of subjectivity just pains my brain.

I agree with weighting different fouls differently, that's how professional fouls came to be policed. For me though an attack needs to be extremely promising for the foul to warrant a yellow if it was a genuine attempt to play the ball and just a regulation foul. Otherwise every foul in the attacking half may as well be yellow. He was about to shoot sir!

[Jetmaster]

Agree with everything bar the season being over. I don't really believe we will make the finals however I'm willing to hold off on writing them off until its mathematically impossible. Wanderers really were that bad this weekend and until we can't catch them then there's always a chance.

Won't matter though as 6th will be out first week of the finals anyway.

Last five games, only one at home and the last one away to the Smurfs. I'm prepared to say season over.

The ONLY way we would make it is to win these three games - Wellington, Wanderers and Mariners, not draw, win. MC is a chance I suppose based on history.

[MFKS]

Last five games, only one at home and the last one away to the Smurfs. I'm prepared to say season over.

The ONLY way we would make it is to win these three games - Wellington, Wanderers and Mariners, not draw, win. MC is a chance I suppose based on history.

It's the Jets.

Season was over before it ****ing started

Let's not kid ourselves it wasn't

Our squad is and never was good enough to compete at the level required

[pv4]

I've had a ref once say to me "I think a draw is a pretty fair result".

Similar story in IDs, our team crossed the ball and it hit an opposition players arm. We all appeal for handball. Ref says, distinctly, "nope, I'm not giving a penalty this late in the game. A draw is a fair result and I'm not changing that".

After the game I asked him (in what I thought was a polite enough manner) how I can formally request to have the referees association look into particular referees and he told me to "fxxx off". I've asked several refs since about it and apparently the ref in question is "too high up in the chain" for anyone to bother with it, and even if an inquisition of sorts happened, nothing would eventuate. He must have helped run the place or something, I dunno. Why can't all refs just be great like Digby ffs.

[ForeverRed]

Why did we stop playing after halftime, one man down isn't the end of the world, I was disappointed we didn't have a red hot go, play three at the back and try your luck, you can't park the bus all day and expect to hold on

[Grimario]

Why did we stop playing after halftime, one man down isn't the end of the world, I was disappointed we didn't have a red hot go, play three at the back and try your luck, you can't park the bus all day and expect to hold on

It's not like we were short of centre backs either given we have had one starting at right back for ages, one on the bench and then another bloke who has played there plenty in Kanta.

[MFKS]

Thing to remember with the reshuffle and Boogaard coming on

Kanta has been out injured 2-3 months and the plan may have been 50-60 mins only

Hoffman's red may have ****ed it all

[Stryker]

FMD. have ever watched a game of football before? You need to learn the rules before you enter into debates about the rules.

Hoffmann doesn't have to get out of the way of a player behind him trying to get to the ball. It doesn't matter one iota whether he has control of the ball or is anywhere near the ball, he doesn't have to get out of the way. Arana fouls him from behind and cops an accidental arm at the top of the chest, not the face.

The one thing you did get right - clear as day.

watch the replay. contact is made with the face first and then the chest.

why is there still ppl saying its not a foul? both coaches agree it was a foul. have you read the rules lately or ever? agreed that hoffman doesnt have to get out of the way, but he cant use his arms to stop the attacker going for the ball. call it impeding, call it striking, call it holding. defenders dont like being beat and will use there arms especially when the ball isnt within playing distance. hoffman rolled the dice and got stung.

pretty stupid to attract the referees attention by punching the ball away in the first place. if he doesnt do that he doesnt get sent off 2 mins later. blame the ref as much as you like, but hoffman made a meal of it and cost the team

[Wilso8948]

Love the whole.. "have you read the rules lately??" with the opposed coming back with "have you read the rules lately?" without either really knowing the rules..

and I'm all like "na bra I've got better things to do with my time then sit back and immerse myself in hundreds of pages of utter dribble".

Edit - Then I realise I'm sitting on this forum.

[pv4]

pretty stupid to attract the referees attention by punching the ball away in the first place. if he doesnt do that he doesnt get sent off 2 mins later. blame the ref as much as you like, but hoffman made a meal of it and cost the team

Agreed it was stupid.

Keen to watch the next time Gillett refs Melbourne Victory - Besart Berisha will be getting handed yellows like there's no tomorrow because he does what Hoff did there all the time.

[MFKS]

watch the replay. contact is made with the face first and then the chest.

why is there still ppl saying its not a foul? both coaches agree it was a foul. have you read the rules lately or ever? agreed that hoffman doesnt have to get out of the way, but he cant use his arms to stop the attacker going for the ball. call it impeding, call it striking, call it holding. defenders dont like being beat and will use there arms especially when the ball isnt within playing distance. hoffman rolled the dice and got stung.

pretty stupid to attract the referees attention by punching the ball away in the first place. if he doesnt do that he doesnt get sent off 2 mins later. blame the ref as much as you like, but hoffman made a meal of it and cost the team

Once again

What he done 1 minute earlier is irrelevant
The punching the ball away was dealt with and he was given a yellow

Is the 2nd card a yellow??

No way in the world

It not a yellow if you haven't been booked
It not a 2nd yellow if you have

The only petulance was the ****wit with the whistle who proceeded to blow it when he didn't need to and not blow it when he should have.

Rather bizarre the decisions were all one way yet you show no interest in questioning his impartiality.

I seen games before where we copped a shit call or two
Gee that game Beath ****ed is in Geelong was a good example.

But the way Gillette screwed us last night wasn't one just one call. They kept going all night long

Our blokes were getting knocked flying no FK
There blokes got the slightest contract and they got a FK

McKay running around giving him a gobful everytime he didn't like a call and he goes unpunished

Calling it for what it is BULLSHIT

FFA want WSW in the playoffs and will do what they can to help them there