Azzurri first? Surely this can't be the first grade ladder you're talking about? #survivethedroptwentyeighteenOriginally Posted by Kicktheball
Azzurri first? Surely this can't be the first grade ladder you're talking about? #survivethedroptwentyeighteen
OK
Pffft. It would be embarrassing if Azzurri DID come last as it would make it a dumb choice to promote and skip ZL2 if they didn’t do well.This deserves more credit
Seriously though, Azzurri will struggle this year. It would be embarrassing for Newcastle football if they didn't finish last.
So you’re ignoring the grand final winners?
Top 4 should be Terrace, Suburbs, Azzurri and Cooks Hill. Not in that order.
What is everyones thoughts on Morisset? Hypothetically speaking if they don't finishes last do they deserve to be relegated still?
Personally I feel for the blokes there who have and are sticking it out. I hope they can recover but I feel regardless of results it would be unfair if anyone else is relegated next year before them.
I have massive issues with how this all unfolded as I've mentioned previously. how does the Association do some due diligence before punting Charlie who were competitive in Reserves & Thirds whilst Morriset languished in these grades. Anyone who played Morriset in reserve grade last year saw that it was mainly thirds backing up!!!
so in 2018 where did the club think 15-20 blokes were magically going to appear from and why didn't the Association enquire as to why they were so poor in 2017. Surely they could have just looked at players registered? This situation should never have occurred and you have to feel for Charlie.
As for what they do at the end of this year, who would know!!!!!
I think its ridiculous the rules have been changed to suit one team. Squads struggle to field teams throughout the grades each and every week. But they make it happen. Lets say Morisset win Reserve/First grade GF. What's to say it isn't an advantage having a fresh team whilst their opposition may have had players back up from thirds/Reserves. Ultimately that's two years the competition has changed for one club. And now the criteria for acceptance into this grade has been tainted. Others may disagree but I'm calling a spade a spade.
This brings us back to the argument I posed last year in the ZL1 thread that, like Sydney NPL, promotion & relegation should be decided on Club Championship rather than solely first grade. And from memory, Morisset came last in the Club Championship last year.
EDIT: I just checked, Morisset did finish last in the Club Championship last year. And would need to have quite a year in firsts & reserves to avoid last in the Club Championship this upcoming year..
Last edited by pv4; 20-03-2018 at 01:19 PM.
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Hang on.
Whilst I agree with this years assessment of changing the rules for a team, how did it change last year for the team?
They said they could field 3 grades and did so every week, regardless of how many people had to back up from 3rd to Res, or wherever.
This year they admitted they can't field a 3rd grade, asked to go down, and then the rules we bent for them to keep the status quo of the competition at a late stage. That's the only issue.
And I can't see how any gripe should be held with the players or the club, as they did the correct thing in requesting to be dropped a grade. It was the combined committees decision to allow the change in rules.
"The competition changed"
2016 Morisset played ZPL.
2017 Morisset asked to be relegated because they felt they wouldn't be competitive
2018 Morisset asked to be relegated because they couldn't feild 3 side, ultimately the decision was made to allow for them to stay with 2 grades.
2 years in a row the competition changed to suit them.
The big issue is the timing of it. It was probably too late for a previously-functioning Charlestown, for example, to get a third grade back after being relegated.
Again - Club Championship would have solved this issue, and the upcoming "issue" of what to do with Morisset..
OK
Here are my posts from last year on the Club Champ. I still reckon they hold up:
Club Championship:
1. Barnsley 176
2. Raymond Terrace 161
3. Garden Suburb() 161
4. Wallsend 155
5. Cooks Hill 146
6. Stockton 124
7. Westlakes 97
8. Beresfield 92
9. Charlestown 75
10. Morisset 73They should promote/relegate based on Club Championship, like Sydney NPL do.I for one am shocked that someone from Morisset doesn't like the ideaops:
It's genuinely worth considering, I reckon. Adding to what Jardel has said.. what about those clubs that have years when their first grade absolutely blitz a comp but their other grade(s) are cellar dwellers? From memory I can think of both Morisset and Raymond Terrace having years like this. Having entire clubs contributions is a good thought. And as we can see from this years Club Championship in this comp, the first grade ladder varies very little from the Club Championship ladder. It's still heavily based on First Grade, which is the goal.
Using this years First Grade vs Club Champ Ladder, from what I can see the main differences are: Morisset and Charlestown swap 9th and 10th positions, Cooks Hill move from 8th to 5th because of their great Reserve Grade results. The rest are pretty much the same.
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Add to that the fact that across all grades last season, Charlestown won 5 of 6 games vs Morisset, and drew the other.
Then Charlie beat them 3-1 in the FFA cup on the weekend, and drew 2-2 in reserves (curtain raiser to 1st grade).
Unfortunately, it is what it is.
As someone mentioned above, the timing was the worst part of this issue.
Yes they requested to go down, but they did it too late.
Charlie had already accepted the relegation, cut 15 players and even lost a few who didn’t want to play ZL2. So there was no way they could have gone back up to ZL1 at such late notice.
I know a few other clubs expressed an interest, but the sheer workload required from volunteer committee members to make it happen wouldve scared off most teams.
Thanks for the clarification Premy. Saved me some typing.. Must have found that ball of yours and have all this spare time on your hands!
I think this would have to be one of the dumbest post I have read. I find it quite difficult to compare Sydney NPL to 4th and 5th division Newcastle Football.
I am President of a ZPL club and previously ZL1. Clubs have always and or should live and die by first grade. Do you really think Charlestown's reserves would have changed any results from last year??? I have played all 3 grades in both comps. Each grade is like comparing apples and oranges.
Sorry, I was assuming by saying "the competition changed" we were referring to a ruling change. Not just that a club couldn't be competitive and changed the format of the actual competition.
This season however is most definitely a ruling change, and it goes a long way to making a mockery of the competition for those clubs that strive hard to be in it week in-year out.
I don't know. Of all my years playing in Zone League, all I know is, when we sign up. We play as a SQUAD. We don't sign up as "First Grade", "Reserve Grade" and "Third Grade" players. You EARN your spot in the team you play in every week.
Using Club Championship shows the strongest SQUAD throughout the year. Sure, everyone gets all excited about first grade results, but ultimately, the Club/SQUAD with the best players and DEPTH *should* end up finishing first and winning the comp. You don't do that with 11-12 players. More likely 15+ players playing in first grade throughout the year.
I like the idea of using Club Championships for promotion and relegation.
You've basically summed up the whole decision in one sentence.
Club championships can't be used as a relegation tool as it would impact 1st grade.
Stacking lower grades come finals is already an issue for some people.
As an example, If team 1 knew they weren't competitive in 1sts by the halfway mark of the season they could just drop a few 1st graders into reserve grade to assure club championship points and over take someone like Team 1, who are trying to win 1st grade games by rotating the best guys from reserve into their team each week.
Unfortunately the world isn't perfect and Charlestown were relegated because they finished last, Morisset's struggles this year didn't impact on that happening.
I'm also very sure that Morisset had fully intended on fielding 3 competitive teams this year and are disappointed that they have had to resort to not fielding a 3rds team. By all accounts they asked to be relegated to ZL2 as soon as they worked out the issue, however that request was denied. The association is the one who made the decisions that led to it, so if anyone is unhappy I guess it should be aimed at the association rather than Morisset.
Club Championship helps highlight the overall strength of the cluv and overall squad rather than allowing clubs to stack their top grade and leave unsustainable lower grades. Charlestown seemingly had stronger reserves and thirds than Morisset did, which the CC reflects, and arguably could have headed into this season with a better overall squad than Morisset have.
Frodo the thing about CC is it is still heavily weighted for first grade results. It's not like all grades are treated equally. Which can be seen by how little the First Grade Ladder varies from the CC.
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Morisset nominated to stay in ZL1, despite barely being able to field a 3rd grade side last year. So they either signed 15 newbies, or knew they would struggle again. So yes, the club is to blame.
The association denied their request because it would punish another team to promote them at such late notice. Particularly since they were already put in ZL2 and had been planning accordingly.
The decision they made was basically to have 1 bye instead of 3 each week.
When I grow up, I want to be Yohan Cabaye.
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