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Thread: 2021 Zone League 2 thread

  1. #221
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    All age football is like City and Suburban cricket, It's pub football.

    Good on the clubs with the vision of having a second squad. Garden Suburbs is at the lowest point for some time, no offence but that's the reality.

    Maybe if they had the vision a couple of years ago they would still have a ZL1 team plus a ZL3 Squad now and be a progressive club instead of sulking on the forum.

  2. #222
    Senior Member Premy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverboy View Post
    All age football is like City and Suburban cricket, It's pub football.

    Good on the clubs with the vision of having a second squad. Garden Suburbs is at the lowest point for some time, no offence but that's the reality.

    Maybe if they had the vision a couple of years ago they would still have a ZL1 team plus a ZL3 Squad now and be a progressive club instead of sulking on the forum.
    Sulking??? Please elaborate as to how Garden Suburb are sulking?
    I mearly stated my own personal opinion and people on here want to associate that with the club I'm involved with.

    I must be forgiven for thinking a local football forum is a place where one would open a discussion about local football. Please forgive me and if you don't mind could you direct me to where one could discuss all things about the local football in the greater Newcastle region in a forum type platform.
    Thanks in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by #fixsmithpark View Post
    I'M GULLIBLE!

  3. #223
    When don’t sookurbs sulk? You have the reputation of it too. Sookurb stackers ��

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Premy View Post
    Sulking??? Please elaborate as to how Garden Suburb are sulking?
    I mearly stated my own personal opinion and people on here want to associate that with the club I'm involved with.

    I must be forgiven for thinking a local football forum is a place where one would open a discussion about local football. Please forgive me and if you don't mind could you direct me to where one could discuss all things about the local football in the greater Newcastle region in a forum type platform.
    Thanks in advance.
    Geez touchy, touchy. I'm not going to waste to much of my time on this. It's in and it's never going to change.

    I guess you guys nearly fell over this year and your probably thinking if you had the players from some of the other clubs then you guys would be safe in ZL1. Your in a tough market around you there is Kotara South (ZPL) , Warner's Bay (ZPL), Kahibah (NL1 & ZL2) , Charlestown (Zl3), South Cardiff (NL1) and Cardiff (ZPL and I see they now have a ZL3) so I guess it's a tough market.

  5. #225
    Senior Member Premy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverboy View Post
    Geez touchy, touchy. I'm not going to waste to much of my time on this. It's in and it's never going to change.
    Of course you will get a reaction from me when you want to make a sweeping statement about Garden Suburb with no context. Please elaborate as to how Garden Suburb are sulking?

    Quote Originally Posted by riverboy View Post
    I guess you guys nearly fell over this year and your probably thinking if you had the players from some of the other clubs then you guys would be safe in ZL1. Your in a tough market around you there is Kotara South (ZPL) , Warner's Bay (ZPL), Kahibah (NL1 & ZL2) , Charlestown (Zl3), South Cardiff (NL1) and Cardiff (ZPL and I see they now have a ZL3) so I guess it's a tough market.
    "I guess". There is your problem, you made an assumption. Your assumption is incorrect.
    I don't see the value in B teams, PERSONALLY I think B teams are ridiculous. B teams can't compete in the Cup and they can only be promoted to a certain level. Also where do we stop? Someone mentioned that Barcelona have a B team, Barcelona also had a C team do we keep going?

    I'll use Cooks Hill(this isn't a shot at Cooks Hill they are only operating within the rules they are allowed to, I'm mearly using Cooks Hill for an example)
    Cooks Hill are going to be promoted to NPL next year, one can assume that some of their current squad are going to be surplus and they might move them into their ZPL team. Now they don't have any room in third grade for some of their current ZPL squad, do they make a ZL3 team next year for their players. Then Cooks Hill will have B and C teams in Zone League where do we stop? We could have a Zone division of teams all from the one Club
    Last edited by Premy; 09-08-2021 at 05:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by #fixsmithpark View Post
    I'M GULLIBLE!

  6. #226
    Suburbs out of their depth here, stick to something you’s do regularly… stacking

  7. #227
    Senior Member Premy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Sausage View Post
    Anyone know the story behind garden suburbs stacking ressies?
    A certain ZL1 side seems to believe they are stacking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Sausage View Post
    Draw against bolwarra, win against minmi few weeks ago. I’d say suburb stackers are a very good chance of winning the ressies comp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Sausage View Post
    Suburb stacked in ZL1 back in 2019 & years prior to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Sausage View Post
    The burbs zinger stackers are back in stock for ressies games I see
    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Sausage View Post
    Poor burbs can’t handle a bit of banter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Sausage View Post
    When don’t sookurbs sulk? You have the reputation of it too. Sookurb stackers ��
    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Sausage View Post
    Suburbs out of their depth here, stick to something you’s do regularly… stacking
    ...
    Last edited by Premy; 09-08-2021 at 07:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by #fixsmithpark View Post
    I'M GULLIBLE!

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Premy View Post
    Of course you will get a reaction from me when you want to make a sweeping statement about Garden Suburb with no context. Please elaborate as to how Garden Suburb are sulking?


    "I guess". There is your problem, you made an assumption. Your assumption is incorrect.
    I don't see the value in B teams, PERSONALLY I think B teams are ridiculous. B teams can't compete in the Cup and they can only be promoted to a certain level. Also where do we stop? Someone mentioned that Barcelona have a B team, Barcelona also had a C team do we keep going?

    I'll use Cooks Hill(this isn't a shot at Cooks Hill they are only operating within the rules they are allowed to, I'm mearly using Cooks Hill for an example)
    Cooks Hill are going to be promoted to NPL next year, one can assume that some of their current squad are going to be surplus and they might move them into their ZPL team. Now they don't have any room in third grade for some of their current ZPL squad, do they make a ZL3 team next year for their players. Then Cooks Hill will have B and C teams in Zone League where do we stop? We could have a Zone division of teams all from the one Club
    Absolutely respect the personal perspective and you are of course, absolutely entitled to your opinion.
    As I said previously I'm part of the 'B team' element of a club and I guess I see it a bit differently. We were the 'A' element for an incredibly long period of time, but the growth of our club was supported by a NL1 application. I guess we would have seen it as pretty rough if we went from being a ZPL side to not existing. A 2 division drop was harsh enough, but fair.
    We would rather be a second rate side in our club than not see our club progress to NL1 as well.
    The FFA Cup (or whatever its called now) would be cool to be involved in, but I personally would rather miss out on that than play AA all year.
    And I guess 'only being promoted to a certain level' could be an issue, but for most not really. I don't know of that many ZPL clubs that want to progress beyond that anyway (the ones that have in the last 5 years have done so) and anyone who is 'B" side can get to ZPL, so no real drama.
    And the Cookers example again probably depends on an individual perspective. Would it be better to have well run clubs in ZL3 and add teams into that division, or have less clubs and have byes/combined comps/less games.

  9. #229
    Senior Member Premy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idontwannaplaywithhowey View Post
    Absolutely respect the personal perspective and you are of course, absolutely entitled to your opinion.
    As I said previously I'm part of the 'B team' element of a club and I guess I see it a bit differently. We were the 'A' element for an incredibly long period of time, but the growth of our club was supported by a NL1 application. I guess we would have seen it as pretty rough if we went from being a ZPL side to not existing. A 2 division drop was harsh enough, but fair.
    We would rather be a second rate side in our club than not see our club progress to NL1 as well.
    The FFA Cup (or whatever its called now) would be cool to be involved in, but I personally would rather miss out on that than play AA all year.
    And I guess 'only being promoted to a certain level' could be an issue, but for most not really. I don't know of that many ZPL clubs that want to progress beyond that anyway (the ones that have in the last 5 years have done so) and anyone who is 'B" side can get to ZPL, so no real drama.
    And the Cookers example again probably depends on an individual perspective. Would it be better to have well run clubs in ZL3 and add teams into that division, or have less clubs and have byes/combined comps/less games.
    I can see the benefits of the B teams to the respective club's involved.

    I can't see the benefits of the B teams to the respective competitions.
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  10. #230
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    I can see the point Premy i trying to make and I agree that having two zone teams for a single club could be seen as detrimental to the competition

    but the issue comes down to a few factors to me, someone with over 20 years of involvement as part of running a club from it's formation, up to it's entry into the highest competition we have in this state

    there are many factors in a club's capacity to move up levels of seriousness in competitions - to me, the most important are (in no real order):
    a) players, which relates to club culture
    b) club administrators and team management
    c) facilities and resources, including sponsorship

    take away any of these three factors and you won't succeed a step up - to simply ship players around between clubs to suit competition standards completely ignores these first two factors, having the clubs to ship them to ignores that last one

    players who feel part of a club, having played many years or some other bond, simply aren't going to and play at another club just because they think they're at ZL2 level. They'll either not play or they will stay with mates and look for other options. Dropping down grades to All Age may not feel appropriate so they may be lost to the game - people get different things out of playing, that's not just pub league, that's all levels of this amateur/pissweak money level

    club admins and managers may also just not be keen on the additional crap that goes with zone competitions - some clubs are set up that way and some aren't, some have a culture of organisational nous and skill that can easily step up or add to existing competitions, some don't have anyone capable - some have ambition, some don't - my point is that there may just not be a managerial capacity to run a zone club

    the facilities and resources issue speaks for itself - there are rules for being in zone competitions (for better or worse) and they are a limiting factor to the number of teams that can enter

    but this is just my take on the issue, having gone through this as part of my club, and having mates involved in another club that has recently stepped up from AA to Zone - I'm sure other people's experience, as players, club members and observers may be different

  11. #231
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    I'm at a club that I'm involved with the 'B team. I guess my take on it is simple.

    At the start of the season we were with Dudley Juniors, we only had half a squad. To play zone league we had to look at other options.

    Cardiff City FC came up, they took us on and together we built the numbers to field a zl3 squad. This only occurred around 5 weeks before the competition started.

    For us it was a no-brainer, Cardiff City FC are an established and well run club and the move has been good. On field we have been extremely inconsistent with player numbers which has meant our results have been inconsistent. But first year in we have learned our lessons to build from next season.

    So if Cardiff didn't take us on there was a good chance that we wouldn't have played zone league at all. This would have meant zl3 would have been an 7 team competition. Would that have been good for the competition?

    Our squad short term goals are to be competitive in zl3.

    Around 8 years ago, An all age team I was involved with before zone league was turned away from GS for no reason. Committee members come and go and I'm sure it's changed since then. But the point I'm making is that Big clubs like New Lambton and Cooks Hill probably haven't turned away too many teams and players in the last 10 years. Hence they have plenty of players, quality and multiple graded teams.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by anfield View Post
    But the point I'm making is that Big clubs like New Lambton and Cooks Hill probably haven't turned away too many teams and players in the last 10 years. Hence they have plenty of players, quality and multiple graded teams.
    this couldn't be further from the truth - our junior teams are full in January, our All Age teams are generally stable each year with one or two gaps filled by guys who turn up to training over summer - usually full early February at the latest - National Park is already a dust bowl and we simply don't have the space for training and games, not to mention the extra work involved in having more teams

    as far as men's AA and 35 - we haven't added a new team from outside the club in 5 or 6 years and that was an extraordinary situation involving friends of club members, before that it would have been another four years, also involving friends of members - in fact this season we had to turn away a lot of guys from last season with the destruction/total rebuild of a Friday team, that really hurt to tell blokes who've been with the club years that we didn't have space

    I'd say we turn away on average 1-2 full teams per year asking to join, along with probably about 20 individual blokes

    The zone guys are pretty much the same, stable bunch of blokes every year - a few drop offs and additions each season - very few go to other clubs, and often that occurs because people move away, rather than anything to do with Cooks Hill

    often as guys get older and slower they move down a grade or two, or All Age teams want to take it a bit more serious (and use the good field) - which is why we originally formed the ZL3, even though we still had the ZPL team, which neatly brings the conversation back to the whole point Premy wanted to discuss in the first place

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by boz-monaut View Post
    this couldn't be further from the truth - our junior teams are full in January, our All Age teams are generally stable each year with one or two gaps filled by guys who turn up to training over summer - usually full early February at the latest - National Park is already a dust bowl and we simply don't have the space for training and games, not to mention the extra work involved in having more teams

    as far as men's AA and 35 - we haven't added a new team from outside the club in 5 or 6 years and that was an extraordinary situation involving friends of club members, before that it would have been another four years, also involving friends of members - in fact this season we had to turn away a lot of guys from last season with the destruction/total rebuild of a Friday team, that really hurt to tell blokes who've been with the club years that we didn't have space

    I'd say we turn away on average 1-2 full teams per year asking to join, along with probably about 20 individual blokes

    The zone guys are pretty much the same, stable bunch of blokes every year - a few drop offs and additions each season - very few go to other clubs, and often that occurs because people move away, rather than anything to do with Cooks Hill

    often as guys get older and slower they move down a grade or two, or All Age teams want to take it a bit more serious (and use the good field) - which is why we originally formed the ZL3, even though we still had the ZPL team, which neatly brings the conversation back to the whole point Premy wanted to discuss in the first place
    Ok happy to be corrected on that one, cooks Hill wasn't the best example to use. But it happens elsewhere, obviously Cardiff City is one.

  14. #234
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    Originally the use and approval of B teams was to help prop up numbers when a lot of clubs pulled out of ZL comps within 2-3 years.
    I think Premy is right though, have we gotten to a point now where B teams at clubs are now effecting numbers of clubs that COULD be in ZL?

    I've always firmly believed ZL should be used as a proper pathway from Juniors towards NL1 and NPL.
    The associations should be encouraging, promoting and even helping smaller clubs get there structures right to enable them to enter ZL competitions, and then be guiding all clubs through ZL2 and 3 to help them grow and retain player numbers.

    The idea behind extra divisions in ZL1 & ZPL was that clubs were bigger, had their sh*t together and had better organised coaching through to their junior ranks so they should be able to sustain a bigger squad.

    The strength of Friday and Saturday All Age A and B divisions show that there are a lot of clubs who could easily compete in ZL if they had the structure and it meant something.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homer7654 View Post
    Singleton coming down from NewFM might push 2 ZPL teams down to ZL1. Thus making it two 10 team competitions and two 8 team competitions. I don't think second place getting promoted is acceptable.
    Singleton are actively advertising for coaching staff for all their NL1 age groups.
    Pretty obvious they have intentions to stay up or they wouldn't be bothering at all.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyKplunk View Post
    Originally the use and approval of B teams was to help prop up numbers when a lot of clubs pulled out of ZL comps within 2-3 years.
    I think Premy is right though, have we gotten to a point now where B teams at clubs are now effecting numbers of clubs that COULD be in ZL?

    I've always firmly believed ZL should be used as a proper pathway from Juniors towards NL1 and NPL.
    The associations should be encouraging, promoting and even helping smaller clubs get there structures right to enable them to enter ZL competitions, and then be guiding all clubs through ZL2 and 3 to help them grow and retain player numbers.

    The idea behind extra divisions in ZL1 & ZPL was that clubs were bigger, had their sh*t together and had better organised coaching through to their junior ranks so they should be able to sustain a bigger squad.

    The strength of Friday and Saturday All Age A and B divisions show that there are a lot of clubs who could easily compete in ZL if they had the structure and it meant something.
    I can only speak on behalf of what it’s like in ZPL. The structure of most of these clubs are all without a junior base. It’s for guys that want to play in a club environment that’s still competitive and without the commitment and expectation of the top two divisions. We don’t want to have to deal with juniors.
    If you are playing in ZPL, chances are that your shot at playing in NPL is already gone.
    It's football, not s***er!!

  17. #237
    Why would a club having two zone league teams be a problem?
    Having a ZPL side & a ZL2 or 3 side means you could put all your younger players coming through into ZL3 & bring them up into ZPL in a few years once developed. Or even chuck the older guys that are past their prime in the lower side..& also they can mentor the younger guys? Not every kid coming through is good enough for NPL.
    you cut B teams & I’ll tell you now we will lose players to the game all together fast.

  18. #238
    Seems like the only people with a problem with clubs having 2 senior setups are those whose clubs are having trouble attracting new players.

    I fail to see how its an issue for anybody, it puts stable clubs in competitions that desperately need stability, and it gives players who aren't at NPL, NL1, or sometimes ZPL level/commitment a chance to represent their community or local club, or even play with friends.

    Re g suburb, maybe more would want to come and join the zone league ranks if it wasn't a gigantic cry-fest every time you play them, puts people off

  19. #239
    Senior Member Premy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessepinkman View Post
    Seems like the only people with a problem with clubs having 2 senior setups are those whose clubs are having trouble attracting new players.

    I fail to see how its an issue for anybody, it puts stable clubs in competitions that desperately need stability, and it gives players who aren't at NPL, NL1, or sometimes ZPL level/commitment a chance to represent their community or local club, or even play with friends.

    Re g suburb, maybe more would want to come and join the zone league ranks if it wasn't a gigantic cry-fest every time you play them, puts people off
    Seems like some people can't differentiate a person's opinion and a club, also seems like some people can't read as we have already been over this.
    Seems like some people have no problem making defamatory statements in anonymity. Next time you grace Lance Yorke Oval with your presence come introduce yourself and I'll be happy to shout you a drink and listen to your thoughts on this so called cry-fest.
    Cheers...
    Last edited by Premy; 11-08-2021 at 08:59 PM.
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  20. #240
    Hilarious.

    Chest beaters think that having 2 mediocre ZL teams is good. What a farce. 100 players and cant crack a half assed NL1.

    You cut B teams then the blowins can go back to where shouldve been in the first place, their own suburb.

    Then theres the thought that ZPL is too good for juniors. What an embarrassment for local football.

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