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Thread: 2021 NPL Youth Thread

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung View Post
    And the other side of me thinks that we are already talking about no scores/points. At some point, we need to change to developing winning mentality.
    Its a point thats been gone over since day one on here but NNSW have set the age that scores matter to 13.Whether we agree or not,the point is that thats where the Federation has put it so thats what we are all working towards.Of course the lines are blurred in the years before that,but 13 is the age, so 13 it is.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung View Post
    Apologies to Lord Griff. I’m gonna scapegoat phone reply as the reason haha.

    Understand it’s separate to seniors, I just am right on the fence about how I feel about strict promotion/relegation for 12-16 year old unpaid players.
    I’m concerned about the ramifications for clubs if they have a weak 16s, and promising 13-15s, the effect on those “promising teams and players” who want to be in the top division.

    Could be maybe on board with non weighted club championship.
    Or an unofficial promotion/relegation where we trust (lol) NNSW to look at clubs performance and if there’s say 1,2 or 3 clubs at the bottom of top division not performing, and 2 outstanding teams in division 2, relegate 2 and promote 2.

    Not a problem with your proposal, but I just can’t get my head around having a promotion/relegation system in youth football when we haven’t had a serious ongoing pro/rel system in NPL seniors for over a decade. The reasons they gave to give clubs stability and allow them to focus on development of players, systems and facilities. I think that approach is much better suited to youth football and save the promotion/relegation for the paid semi-professional clubs in NPL and NL1 to battle it out and deal with the pressure.

    Even if you do similar to SAP and the term NPL youth encompasses the broader competition and break it up into smaller groups based on something.
    My fear is that clubs will just end up as a big merry go round year to year.

    And the other side of me thinks that we are already talking about no scores/points. At some point, we need to change to developing winning mentality.
    Football NSW have de-coupled their youth and senior promotion/relegation based on a club championship

    Youth promotion/relegation is non-weighted (every point gained through the season is x1) and U13 don't count towards championship points, only U14-U18 count

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take it easy View Post
    Charlestown 7-1 over Lake Mac after going down 6-2 to Maitland

    Looking like a lopsided competition
    That is 13s?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegon View Post
    Wouldn't this years 12's still have been part of the association SAP in 2020? Or did North Coast not compete?
    Thus year's 12s are but last year's 12s weren't able to travel for real competition

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung View Post
    Sadly, I think the days of loyalty are gone.
    Goes both ways I don't see clubs being loyal to players either

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    It has been lopsided for years. No easy answer. Playing for your "local" club seems the easiest. Over beers with mates on the weekend, we came up with a point system for NPL/NL1 youth:
    1 point if a kid lives within 5km of home ground
    2 points if between 5 and 15km of ground
    3 points if over 15km of ground.
    Dispensations available for remote clubs (i.e., not in greater Newcastle/Lake Macquarie. Dispensations available for family history with a club.
    Clubs can spend 20 points per team.
    NNSW appoint a commissioner to be final arbitrator.
    What a ridiculous idea, some NPL and NewFM clubs have players from Central Coast teams, why should those players be punished?

    Oh and sorry kids from Nelson Bay we can only take some of you no matter how good you are because you live 60km from the nearest ground

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    What a ridiculous idea, some NPL and NewFM clubs have players from Central Coast teams, why should those players be punished?

    Oh and sorry kids from Nelson Bay we can only take some of you no matter how good you are because you live 60km from the nearest ground
    Did you miss the word 'dispensation'?
    You have any ideas?

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    That is 13s?
    Yes

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    Did you miss the word 'dispensation'?
    You have any ideas?
    Yes, stop trying to make everything equal because in football as in life, the most ambitious will always be the strongest.
    We used to have pro/rel from under 9s in community football in the 80s. Now all of a sudden its too much pressure on the poor little cherubs and they wonder why we cant produce any players these days. Its our fault, not theirs

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    Did you miss the word 'dispensation'?
    You have any ideas?
    You said dispensation for remote clubs, I'm talking about players.

    I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve.

  11. #71
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    Easiest solution, stop pretending clubs in NewFM actually matter and drop the Youth teams from that division. Better yet, fold the entire comp and those clubs join the Zone League system.

    Some of the talented kids will go the NPL route strengthening that completion overall, the rest go back into the Inter-district completions back to their local clubs.

  12. #72
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    A points system for youth is one of the craziest things Ive ever heard.
    The points system in seniors doesnt work and I feel its a restriction of trade also.
    Allow the ambitious clubs grow and the clubs stuck in a rut to choose to go backwards to rebuild or enjoy success.
    Im over this nanny state rubbish that everybody deserves to be equal.
    The best run clubs deserve to be the best and not have some political correct, moaning dogooder holding them back.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
    Easiest solution, stop pretending clubs in NewFM actually matter and drop the Youth teams from that division. Better yet, fold the entire comp and those clubs join the Zone League system.

    Some of the talented kids will go the NPL route strengthening that completion overall, the rest go back into the Inter-district completions back to their local clubs.
    This is a worse idea than the youth points system and evident of someone who doesn't understand youth football or with any objective to try and improve the depth of quality

  14. #74
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    Tell that to Wallsend 13s = 0-16 and 0-8 to start the season. Or Singleton and Toronto 15s, oh wait they couldnt fill a team. Im sure those scores are doing wonders for their development. Toronto and Singleton both have A-Grade 15s this year as well btw, Singleton have a D-Grade team also, so its not the lack of players, what else could it be?

    There is simply not enough quality kids in these age groups to go around. You have 11 NewFM teams, and 9 NPL teams in Newcastle/Hunter Valley, that is 300 Premier players in each age group. Not a chance! Couple that with the just about double the cost of Rego to play NewFM.

    Thats why some clubs in NewFM havent been able to fill all their Youth teams since their introduction and why there is always balloon score lines.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
    Tell that to Wallsend 13s = 0-16 and 0-8 to start the season. Or Singleton and Toronto 15s, oh wait they couldnt fill a team. Im sure those scores are doing wonders for their development. Toronto and Singleton both have A-Grade 15s this year as well btw, Singleton have a D-Grade team also, so its not the lack of players, what else could it be?

    There is simply not enough quality kids in these age groups to go around. You have 11 NewFM teams, and 9 NPL teams in Newcastle/Hunter Valley, that is 300 Premier players in each age group. Not a chance! Couple that with the just about double the cost of Rego to play NewFM.

    Thats why some clubs in NewFM havent been able to fill all their Youth teams since their introduction and why there is always balloon score lines.
    Your comments are 100% correct Postman. There is not enough quality players to fill all those teams across back to back youth age groups. I still believe one of the main reasons the youth competition was established was to raise money for Northern and take it away from the Zones and their inter district competition. All this has caused is inflated egos for parents again claiming their kid is playing New FM or worse A grade in inter district when the standard is comparable to D grade or below.

  16. #76
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    8 team NPL1 and NPL2 with promotion/relegation for seniors - 21 game season with home and away finals. Senior clubs must field NPL Youth teams to keep NPL license. 3rd Tier competition has no compulsory youth requirements (maybe linked into inter district competition). I think 16 clubs of youth is enough with talent available at this point.

    NPL Youth pooled together in a 16 team competition. Separate into Pool A and Pool B based on results/previous years results and player retention as assessed by clubs and NNSW.
    Pools play teams in their pool twice and teams from other pool once. 22 game season with pool finals.
    Could add mid coast and north into a 8 team pool a and 10 team pool b or
    Vice versa.
    I think keeping NPL youth under one banner helps development of players as clubs, teams and players have reduced burden of “promotion” “relegation” terms impacting development. We essentially See a merry go round of players across all clubs with promotion/relegation. (Eg if Adamstown got relegated and cooks hill are promoted, a lot of Adamstown players will be picked up by other clubs, cooks hill would aim to improve some positions and Adamstown will recruit in lesser league or finge first graders from other NPL teams) so the players actually playing first grade NPL don’t change much year to year, their colour do.
    Clubs and players may feel more inclined to stick with their teams for their NPL Youth journey.

    Another option with the all in Youth set up, is to separate Pools A and B across age groups.
    I think keeping exposure with Pool A and Pool B teams playing eachother helps provide another assessment when it comes to the following years assessment if a team matches it or if they are outplayed, and also give players a taste of playing better teams/different tactics (? Long balls haha) without having to endure 15-0 scorelines.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
    Tell that to Wallsend 13s = 0-16 and 0-8 to start the season. Or Singleton and Toronto 15s, oh wait they couldnt fill a team. Im sure those scores are doing wonders for their development. Toronto and Singleton both have A-Grade 15s this year as well btw, Singleton have a D-Grade team also, so its not the lack of players, what else could it be?.
    And what about the players in the competitive 5 teams in each age group? Sending them back to community isn't going to help them at all.

    The Toronto 15s in A grade should be the Toronto NewFM side they won it last year and scored over 100 goals and conceded a handful. Got to look into why those kids don't want to go into the competition they should be in.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung View Post
    8 team NPL1 and NPL2 with promotion/relegation for seniors - 21 game season with home and away finals. Senior clubs must field NPL Youth teams to keep NPL license. 3rd Tier competition has no compulsory youth requirements (maybe linked into inter district competition). I think 16 clubs of youth is enough with talent available at this point.

    NPL Youth pooled together in a 16 team competition. Separate into Pool A and Pool B based on results/previous years results and player retention as assessed by clubs and NNSW.
    Pools play teams in their pool twice and teams from other pool once. 22 game season with pool finals.
    Could add mid coast and north into a 8 team pool a and 10 team pool b or
    Vice versa.
    I think keeping NPL youth under one banner helps development of players as clubs, teams and players have reduced burden of promotion relegation terms impacting development. We essentially See a merry go round of players across all clubs with promotion/relegation. (Eg if Adamstown got relegated and cooks hill are promoted, a lot of Adamstown players will be picked up by other clubs, cooks hill would aim to improve some positions and Adamstown will recruit in lesser league or finge first graders from other NPL teams) so the players actually playing first grade NPL dont change much year to year, their colour do.
    Clubs and players may feel more inclined to stick with their teams for their NPL Youth journey.

    Another option with the all in Youth set up, is to separate Pools A and B across age groups.
    I think keeping exposure with Pool A and Pool B teams playing eachother helps provide another assessment when it comes to the following years assessment if a team matches it or if they are outplayed, and also give players a taste of playing better teams/different tactics (? Long balls haha) without having to endure 15-0 scorelines.
    This is probably better combining youth, and keeps players within a decent competition (we've seen blow out scores in YNPL as well), without forcing kids on the edge of NPL to community and never seen again as some people proposed.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    And what about the players in the competitive 5 teams in each age group? Sending them back to community isn't going to help them at all.

    The Toronto 15s in A grade should be the Toronto NewFM side they won it last year and scored over 100 goals and conceded a handful. Got to look into why those kids don't want to go into the competition they should be in.
    Great for their development

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnno View Post
    Great for their development
    Even greater when people are running these junior clubs and telling the kids to not go and play at these seniors clubs??

    Questions need to be asked if they are associated with the senior club they should be playing for them

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