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Thread: 2021 Premier Club SAP

  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal222 View Post
    They’ll even tell you that they only run JDL because they have to, not because they want to. That’s how RH came into it with NF the jaffas didn’t want to run it so they outsourced it.
    As sapdad suggested. No idea so Jog on muppet

  2. #562
    I have a simple football related question which I hope its allowed on this non football forum.

    How do parents, coaches etc feel the transition from running 8 teams in the member zones Hunter Valley, Macquarie, EJ and Macquarie with the clubs underpinning this to the clubs running the whole SAP programme has gone?

    I was sceptical and for me the jury is still out. I feel the clubs are still underprepared with standard of coaching, the size and work implementing the programme is far bigger than what they expected and Northern are a shambles with organising it which really doesn't help the clubs. I also think when clubs get quality coaches on board the players will migrate there creating their own member zones with the rest being cast aside.

    Would parents be happier to go back to the old system or do they think in time this is the best way?

  3. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by samcan View Post
    As sapdad suggested. No idea so Jog on muppet
    Unfortunately for the pair of muppets being yourself and sapdad, the no idea part sits firmly with you. Until RH became involved the Jaffas had very little interest in the SAP program.

  4. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEBIGCHEESE View Post
    I have a simple football related question which I hope its allowed on this non football forum.

    How do parents, coaches etc feel the transition from running 8 teams in the member zones Hunter Valley, Macquarie, EJ and Macquarie with the clubs underpinning this to the clubs running the whole SAP programme has gone?

    I was sceptical and for me the jury is still out. I feel the clubs are still underprepared with standard of coaching, the size and work implementing the programme is far bigger than what they expected and Northern are a shambles with organising it which really doesn't help the clubs. I also think when clubs get quality coaches on board the players will migrate there creating their own member zones with the rest being cast aside.

    Would parents be happier to go back to the old system or do they think in time this is the best way?
    I answer this based on my own experience with the club SAP as our family never had any experience with the Zone SAP.

    The main difference seems to be:
    • Club SAP develops more players in preparation for NPL
    • Zone SAP concentrated on developing a smaller amount of hand picked players


    Whilst I agree in principle that the Zone SAP was more focused on developing the best kids that could be found within the zones, it did leave kids behind that could have benefited from more focused training. Not every kid develops technically or physically at the same pace. By the time 13's NPL came around, how many of those kids have been caught up to physically but are then only at an advantage due to technique and game understanding? How many kids stayed in the Zone SAP because they got in early rather than being one of the best players?

    I've heard rumours that NNSWF are looking to reduce teams to one per age group which should stem some of the dilution of talent in the players and coaches.

    Ultimately though with SAP now being a 2 tier (or pool A/B) structure NNSWF should be looking at tiered payment models as well (look at FNSW as an example) which should dictate the quality of club support, TD's, Coaching, etc you are paying for.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  5. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEBIGCHEESE View Post
    I have a simple football related question which I hope its allowed on this non football forum.

    How do parents, coaches etc feel the transition from running 8 teams in the member zones Hunter Valley, Macquarie, EJ and Macquarie with the clubs underpinning this to the clubs running the whole SAP programme has gone?

    I was sceptical and for me the jury is still out. I feel the clubs are still underprepared with standard of coaching, the size and work implementing the programme is far bigger than what they expected and Northern are a shambles with organising it which really doesn't help the clubs. I also think when clubs get quality coaches on board the players will migrate there creating their own member zones with the rest being cast aside.

    Would parents be happier to go back to the old system or do they think in time this is the best way?
    Itís way too early to make a call. We always want instant results but change takes time. It might take 10 years for this program to start showing signs of real progress. The best thing we could do for our youth is develop an Australian way of playing football and stop copying from other countries curriculums that we have no chance of emulating.

  6. #566
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    Dont feed the Arse222 troll. Clearly has no idea.


    Quote Originally Posted by THEBIGCHEESE View Post
    I have a simple football related question which I hope its allowed on this non football forum.

    How do parents, coaches etc feel the transition from running 8 teams in the member zones Hunter Valley, Macquarie, EJ and Macquarie with the clubs underpinning this to the clubs running the whole SAP programme has gone?

    I was sceptical and for me the jury is still out. I feel the clubs are still underprepared with standard of coaching, the size and work implementing the programme is far bigger than what they expected and Northern are a shambles with organising it which really doesn't help the clubs. I also think when clubs get quality coaches on board the players will migrate there creating their own member zones with the rest being cast aside.

    Would parents be happier to go back to the old system or do they think in time this is the best way?
    Current system is quite bloated and has dilution of talent from good to poor. Older metro system couldn't attract the best either even though players were very few. I sometimes think TSP coaches are clutching at straws when trying to pick our best players let alone JDL clubs.

    Not sure where we go from here. One team per club for a start but even that has repercussions at 12's when recruiting for 13s.

    JDL - 2 Tiers, All NBN Hitfm clubs enter. NBN clubs start in the top tier and relegation on club championship points format. Let clubs manipulate the nnsw "Dutch mantra" to suit club culture of playing style
    Last edited by traffic light; 16-06-2021 at 12:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    people in general are that spineless that in public they just agree with the left loonies because if you dont you're automatically racist/homophobic/elitist etc.

  7. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEBIGCHEESE View Post
    I have a simple football related question which I hope its allowed on this non football forum.

    How do parents, coaches etc feel the transition from running 8 teams in the member zones Hunter Valley, Macquarie, EJ and Macquarie with the clubs underpinning this to the clubs running the whole SAP programme has gone?

    I was sceptical and for me the jury is still out. I feel the clubs are still underprepared with standard of coaching, the size and work implementing the programme is far bigger than what they expected and Northern are a shambles with organising it which really doesn't help the clubs. I also think when clubs get quality coaches on board the players will migrate there creating their own member zones with the rest being cast aside.

    Would parents be happier to go back to the old system or do they think in time this is the best way?
    The fact is with more kids involved the higher the chance of finding the few gems and the rest developing better without it. The less kids involved the smaller number of developed players around


    Any suggestion that we need to start having club championships from U9s is absurd. However, I will say that throughout the year teams do need to be playing against teams of their own ability and this needs to be assessed. Northern knows this but can't be bothered doing it properly. We saw that with the shambles of using the 5 aside courts and then ignored the results anyway, was nothing more than raising funds for them.

  8. #568
    Thanks for the response.

    Just being curious now, maybe now SAP has been adopted by the clubs there is a place for the member zones to have their own SAP again for the higher potential players.

    Would this

    * Provide a platform for the better players to all train together.
    * Allow other players at clubs to get more time develop at there own pace.
    * Allow a competition which could provide valuable learning.
    * Give players extra motivation to achieve success by being selected in the member zones.
    * Promoting coaching opportunities and education

    If this was in place of the TSP and worked on a 3 month cycle with coaches and TD's providing feedback on the player before inviting them back in or releasing them, TD's of the zones would be expected to visit each club 3 times during this cycle to discuss potential recruitment which is 2 training sessions and a gameday would this be better than the once a year selection by NNSWF who don't attend games?

  9. #569
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    Take under 12’s for example - around 300 kids playing JDL and 800 playing community.
    How can that be considered a ‘talented’ program?
    If the clubs stop thinking about the massive money making scheme that it is and we go to one team/club, then we may see more even results with a much better standard of football.
    As a community coach and JDL parent, I’ve seen plenty of kids out of that 800 that are also arguably better than quite a number of kids in the 300.
    Parents want their kid to be ‘talented’, and if you are willing to pay and trial at every club, most will get a spot.
    Let’s take it back to the 80’s when you earnt your spot in a rep team and didn’t pay ridiculous money for the privilege.
    150 would be enough for the NPL clubs to draw from for 13’s, but how would they then fund their 1st grade players???

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yato View Post
    Iíve seen plenty of kids out of that 800 that are also arguably better than quite a number of kids in the 300.
    Im still not sure why people keep bringing this point up.No one on here or anyone anywhere in the program that ive met thinks anything differently to this.Of course theres talent across the whole footballing community.JDL is one small part of it.Its a different approach that was taken due to the issues in the old system.No one is calling at talent program, no one thinks of it as an elite program.Its for kids to learn the 4 core skills and springboard that into 13's NPL and hopefully beyond.Thats it.The first crop of those kids will join 13's NPL next year, lets see how many of those kids that want to go on actually do, and if the level of football is increased by this approach.Anyone thinking its an instant fix is kidding themselves.The bar needs to be rising every year and its got to start somewhere.

  11. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by traffic light View Post
    Current system is quite bloated and has dilution of talent from good to poor. Older metro system couldn't attract the best either even though players were very few. I sometimes think TSP coaches are clutching at straws when trying to pick our best players let alone JDL clubs.

    Not sure where we go from here. One team per club for a start but even that has repercussions at 12's when recruiting for 13s.
    Im a believer in 2 teams per club but understand the argument on both sides.My concern is that after 12's if every club has 22 players to choose from the temptation to want to fill spots is less than if they only had 11 to begin with.Im hopeful it means less player movement and kids who start in a club at 9's may feel more compelled to stay there and not chase a 'better' opportunity elsewhere.Of course some still will, but if the better teams are happy with their 16-18 best kids then theres less reason for them to recruit and weaken the other clubs.
    Its probably not a universal opinion but i also agree with NPL and Hit clubs being seperate.This way it gives kids the knowledge that if they want to play NPL they need to be at an NPL club.New Lambton has been a good example of being good enough to play against anyone the first few years to kids leaving early to try and get in an NPL program.It has left their teams this year to rebuild in a a few ways and its not really fair on the club to develop kids and have them move on half way through.If kids know where they will end up those choices may be made earlier.And its also not a knock on the kids as if they want to play for an NPL team they need to give themselves the best opportunity.

  12. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yato View Post
    As a community coach and JDL parent, I’ve seen plenty of kids out of that 800 that are also arguably better than quite a number of kids in the 300.
    It's hard to make the comparison without considering the age group and individual teams.

    In 9's, the majority of kids are pretty raw and I think outside of the bigger NPL club teams you are probably right.
    In the 11's and 12's though then you have to look at individual clubs.
    A high achiever in 12's community is going to struggle to get a look in at the top clubs but will probably have a chance at other clubs depending on how well they can trial.

    Based on my viewing of a 12A's game a little while ago that ended up 10-0, I didn't see any individuals that stood out head and shoulders above the rest or any that looked like they'd fit right in within a strong SAP team.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  13. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    The fact is with more kids involved the higher the chance of finding the few gems and the rest developing better without it. The less kids involved the smaller number of developed players around
    Any suggestion that we need to start having club championships from U9s is absurd. However, I will say that throughout the year teams do need to be playing against teams of their own ability and this needs to be assessed. Northern knows this but can't be bothered doing it properly. We saw that with the shambles of using the 5 aside courts and then ignored the results anyway, was nothing more than raising funds for them.
    nah. The gems will find the top anyway. "Developing" all kids will just mean that all-age can pass better and clubs can make a lot of $$ in the mean time.

    Club championship was an option not an ideal solution.

    And Northern have somewhat fixed the inconsistency with the phase 3 draw.
    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    people in general are that spineless that in public they just agree with the left loonies because if you dont you're automatically racist/homophobic/elitist etc.

  14. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegon View Post
    It's hard to make the comparison without considering the age group and individual teams.

    In 9's, the majority of kids are pretty raw and I think outside of the bigger NPL club teams you are probably right.
    In the 11's and 12's though then you have to look at individual clubs.
    A high achiever in 12's community is going to struggle to get a look in at the top clubs but will probably have a chance at other clubs depending on how well they can trial.

    Based on my viewing of a 12A's game a little while ago that ended up 10-0, I didn't see any individuals that stood out head and shoulders above the rest or any that looked like they'd fit right in within a strong SAP team.
    Good to see that clubs who have gone to one team are much more competitive
    Last edited by traffic light; 16-06-2021 at 07:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    people in general are that spineless that in public they just agree with the left loonies because if you dont you're automatically racist/homophobic/elitist etc.

  15. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by traffic light View Post
    Good to see that clubs who have gone to one team are much more competitive
    Sorry I meant a community div 12A game.
    If it came across as a call out around clubs with one team that was not my intention.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  16. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aegon View Post
    Sorry I meant a community div 12A game.
    If it came across as a call out around clubs with one team that was not my intention.
    All good. I didnt take it as a put down for community. I was referring to the positive improvement in JDL teams who have gone to 1 team.

    I havent seen much community to comment. I wonder if community players actually enjoy not having superstars running through their teams.
    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    people in general are that spineless that in public they just agree with the left loonies because if you dont you're automatically racist/homophobic/elitist etc.

  17. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by traffic light View Post
    nah. The gems will find the top anyway. "Developing" all kids will just mean that all-age can pass better and clubs can make a lot of $$ in the mean time.
    You're missing the point, there will be more gems and special gems of higher quality than now. This isn't even my opinion this is based off a 2009 study published by the British Psychological Society looking into more kids doing more of the same activity and how it results in better outcomes not just for the general population but the top marks higher as well.

  18. #578
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    You'd be silly not to look at a couple 12A and 12B teams to potentially take one or two players to trail at NPL clubs, they have the experience on the bigger field. One player who made it through to the second TSP camp came through community, never played Zone SAP and was in a 12B team selected over players who went through the Zone SAP program

  19. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by traffic light View Post
    I was referring to the positive improvement in JDL teams who have gone to 1
    which club has had improvement by going to one team?

  20. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    which club has had improvement by going to one team?
    Adamstown, Lake mac, Wallsend to a degree, Weston. Better still go onto the draws from last year to this year ya lazy sod
    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    people in general are that spineless that in public they just agree with the left loonies because if you dont you're automatically racist/homophobic/elitist etc.

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