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Thread: 2023 Premier Youth League

  1. #221
    Senior Member Hunter403's Avatar
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    Any PYL games today? Hope common sense prevailed and the kids went swimming instead. I expect some were keen to play, sheep stations and all that.
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    Any PYL games today? Hope common sense prevailed and the kids went swimming instead. I expect some were keen to play, sheep stations and all that.
    Edgy v Magic called off after 13s

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by BS detecor View Post
    Edgy v Magic called off after 13s
    Good call
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  4. #224
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    Adamstown played in Coffs Harbour today.Was told all games were played.

  5. #225
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    Valo v Azzurri 13’s went ahead yesterday. All other grades cancelled.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

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    After reading about some more scorelines and performances over the first few weeks of the pre-season its clear theres nowhere near enough talent for a 14 team top division in youth.They need to drop at least 6 clubs back to NL1 for the 2nd half of the season and at most bring 2 back up to start 2024.From there just have 2 up 2 down every year.6 new teams in NL1 will make it a really strong comp and a good place to develop players who are not ready for the top tier of NPL yet.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    After reading about some more scorelines and performances over the first few weeks of the pre-season its clear theres nowhere near enough talent for a 14 team top division in youth.They need to drop at least 6 clubs back to NL1 for the 2nd half of the season and at most bring 2 back up to start 2024.From there just have 2 up 2 down every year.6 new teams in NL1 will make it a really strong comp and a good place to develop players who are not ready for the top tier of NPL yet.
    mate, that has been clear to everyone except NNSW football for years.
    The additional stupidity of scheduling this pre season BS in Feb (summer) during the day only adds to their incompetence. It seems more games are cancelled than played.
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    mate, that has been clear to everyone except NNSW football for years.
    The additional stupidity of scheduling this pre season BS in Feb (summer) during the day only adds to their incompetence. It seems more games are cancelled than played.
    Olympic have bit the bullet in advance and re-scheduled the games to night games mid week.
    Makes much more sense.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    mate, that has been clear to everyone except NNSW football for years.
    The additional stupidity of scheduling this pre season BS in Feb (summer) during the day only adds to their incompetence. It seems more games are cancelled than played.
    Clubs would still be playing trials this time of year regardless.Good to hear some clubs at least trying to make it safer for the kids by playing at night.Parents have told me North Coast have all their preseason games at home in Coffs which is even hotter than down here.With the clubs breaking seniors away from juniors theres no excuses to organise the comps in the best interests of the kids.Remeber as well that NL1 is only a 2 or 3 team comp in most grades.Add in the bottom half of NPL kids and that whole level gets raised immediately.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    Clubs would still be playing trials this time of year regardless.Good to hear some clubs at least trying to make it safer for the kids by playing at night.Parents have told me North Coast have all their preseason games at home in Coffs which is even hotter than down here.With the clubs breaking seniors away from juniors theres no excuses to organise the comps in the best interests of the kids.Remeber as well that NL1 is only a 2 or 3 team comp in most grades.Add in the bottom half of NPL kids and that whole level gets raised immediately.
    Yes that's correct. Mid Coast and North Coast play all their pre season games at home. Stupidly they expect teams to play on Saturday in Coffs with first game at 11am.

    Have also heard that both Coasts teams will play in semi finals of pre season cup no matter where they finish.

    Also, both Coast teams can't get relegated from tier 1 of NPL.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Forever View Post

    Have also heard that both Coasts teams will play in semi finals of pre season cup no matter where they finish.

    Also, both Coast teams can't get relegated from tier 1 of NPL.
    Hardly seems fair
    Last edited by Hunter403; 27-02-2023 at 05:12 PM. Reason: spelling
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  12. #232
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    [QUOTE]Clubs would still be playing trials this time of year regardless.[\QUOTE]

    Exactly right people wanting to have a whinge when clubs have been doing this already, not to mention clubs playing games in January and early Feb when it has been just as hot if not more without the need for Northern.


    Parents have told me North Coast have all their preseason games at home in Coffs
    This is true all regional teams play their games at home for the cup. Though the teams that have travelled to Coffs or Taree for the cup won't be travelling there again during the competition proper. Clubs travel up there once, like it was before.

    With the clubs breaking seniors away from juniors theres no excuses to organise the comps in the best interests of the kids.
    Which is exactly what they are doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Forever View Post
    Have also heard that both Coasts teams will play in semi finals of pre season cup no matter where they finish.
    You've heard wrong, that is just a lie.

    Also, both Coast teams can't get relegated from tier 1 of NPL.
    This is also incorrect.
    Last edited by Taffy; 28-02-2023 at 11:40 AM.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    After reading about some more scorelines and performances over the first few weeks of the pre-season its clear theres nowhere near enough talent for a 14 team top division in youth.They need to drop at least 6 clubs back to NL1 for the 2nd half of the season and at most bring 2 back up to start 2024.From there just have 2 up 2 down every year.6 new teams in NL1 will make it a really strong comp and a good place to develop players who are not ready for the top tier of NPL yet.
    I am just curious what makes you a good judge? Experience tells me that regardless of the number of teams or quality of coaches the cream rises and the committed kids stick with it. Regardless of Club, (although some Clubs have a poor record). The community and Zone competitions are littered with ex NPL Youth boys who tip over into "life" at 18 and move on. The bigger the pool, the better chance of keeping retention at feasible levels to grow the competition. Limiting Youth grades now to 6/8 teams might be attractive on the eye but it doesnt guarantee those 80 odd kids stay. Limit supply in any business and your business dies.

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBscone View Post
    I am just curious what makes you a good judge? Experience tells me that regardless of the number of teams or quality of coaches the cream rises and the committed kids stick with it. Regardless of Club, (although some Clubs have a poor record). The community and Zone competitions are littered with ex NPL Youth boys who tip over into "life" at 18 and move on. The bigger the pool, the better chance of keeping retention at feasible levels to grow the competition. Limiting Youth grades now to 6/8 teams might be attractive on the eye but it doesnt guarantee those 80 odd kids stay. Limit supply in any business and your business dies.
    It's more to do with playing a higher standard of football in more competitive games for both the top and bottom end of the 14 teams. A bigger competition results in a bigger disparity in ability from top to bottom.

    The kids in the top end aren't challenged enough.
    The kids at the bottom lose confidence and enjoyment.

    2 grades of 8 teams would allow the top 200-250 kids in the age group to compete in more evenly matched and challenging games.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBscone View Post
    I am just curious what makes you a good judge? Experience tells me that regardless of the number of teams or quality of coaches the cream rises and the committed kids stick with it. Regardless of Club, (although some Clubs have a poor record). The community and Zone competitions are littered with ex NPL Youth boys who tip over into "life" at 18 and move on. The bigger the pool, the better chance of keeping retention at feasible levels to grow the competition. Limiting Youth grades now to 6/8 teams might be attractive on the eye but it doesnt guarantee those 80 odd kids stay. Limit supply in any business and your business dies.
    Nowhere did I say shrink the pool.The same amount of kids are still out there but they are just now playing at a more appropriate level.Kids in NL1 will still get seen and recruited every year in to NPL and with promotion and relegation it gives clubs a very real incentive to want to achieve.Like it or not the best kids from teams that are getting flogged every week move on more than they stay and continue to get hammered.You only have to look at community players going straight into top 4 NPL teams this year to see that clubs are always out there casting as wide a net as possible in order to improve.The fact is the bottom teams of NPL are closer to the top of NL1 than they to the top of NPL.Why not group all them together and improve both areas?Id argue that will grow the pool of players long term than shrink it.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBscone View Post
    Limiting Youth grades now to 6/8 teams might be attractive on the eye but it doesnt guarantee those 80 odd kids stay.
    Sorry,just in case my original post wasnt clear, I said drop 6 teams and go with between 8-10 with 2 up and 2 down every year.6 teams isnt enough,but there is a clear 8 at the moment across all grades.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    Sorry,just in case my original post wasnt clear, I said drop 6 teams and go with between 8-10 with 2 up and 2 down every year.6 teams isnt enough,but there is a clear 8 at the moment across all grades.
    The reality is NNSW are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. There is no clear answer.

    They have placed Cooks Hill and New Lambton in the 2nd tier of the pre-season cup, they have won by some big margins.

    CH u13s - 2 games played, +14GD
    CH u14s - 2 games played, +18GD
    NL u13s - 1 games played, +13GD
    NL u15s - 1 games played, +9GD

    The counterpoint to all this chat about fewer teams and more levels is that a club's record on match day is not always a reflection of the club's commitment/performance at youth development.

    If we continue to look at NL and CH as examples, they are both likely to end up in the 2nd tier mid-season, however their clubs' growth in the last few years would suggest they have excellent programs. From the outside looking in, both are run by professional coaches. CH has Craig Deans who ran an A League Academy and NL has Clayton Zane who is a full time professional coach.

    The more clubs we have in the top tier, the more pressure on clubs to have quality programs that offer not just great youth development, but great value for money. Having fewer clubs in the top tier rewards the status quo.

    How many players will CH and NL loose end of the season, not because they aren't excellent programs, but because Little Johnny wants to play in the top division regardless of the quality of the program.

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVB View Post
    The reality is NNSW are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. There is no clear answer.
    I agree.

    They have placed Cooks Hill and New Lambton in the 2nd tier of the pre-season cup, they have won by some big margins.
    New Lambton and Cooks Hill should never have been put in the 2nd tier.They earned the right to be in the main NPL draw and its poor management on NNSW part that they were excluded.
    If we continue to look at NL and CH as examples, they are both likely to end up in the 2nd tier mid-season, however their clubs' growth in the last few years would suggest they have excellent programs. From the outside looking in, both are run by professional coaches. CH has Craig Deans who ran an A League Academy and NL has Clayton Zane who is a full time professional coach.
    They have excellent programs,but they will still struggle in the first few years at NPL level so its more about maintaining the kids long term interest and development in the game.Also,Cooks Hills results have improved compared to their first year in NPL (yes,with a small sample size).Does anyone know how many kids stayed from last year?Have they been better at recruiting?For sure the coaching/TD aspect has helped but as weve seen with some clubs,bringing a bunch of new kids in every year then patting yourself on the back because of improved results kind of defeats the whole point of development.Valentine is going to be an interesting test case this year.
    How many players will CH and NL loose end of the season, not because they aren't excellent programs, but because Little Johnny wants to play in the top division regardless of the quality of the program.
    How many will they lose because the kids dont want to go up and get flogged by the top teams every week because they arent ready physically or technically?Players move from all clubs at all times for all reasons.Little Johnny is also moving from the bottom placed NPL team if he feels hes good enough.Theres just as much player movement between the top clubs as well.

    My main point is by that strengthening the 2nd tier it creates a bigger pool of players ready for senior football once they catch up technically and physically.We seem to have 3 options available for the bottom half of youth at the moment.1)Play all year against superior players and teams and get flogged.2)Play half and half in each level (the new system).3)Keep them separated all year then promote and relegate.Im happy to see how plan #2 goes this year and after an appropriate time frame be able to answer all of the questions you posed with hard data and experience.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    New Lambton and Cooks Hill should never have been put in the 2nd tier.They earned the right to be in the main NPL draw and its poor management on NNSW part that they were excluded.
    Rubbish, the comp was always 2 teams of 12 with the top 12 teams into the Cup and the bottom 12 into the plate. Cooks Hill came in bottom of the club championship in Boys NPL last year mainly because they got 0 points in their 16s and so finished 12th. New Lambton came in 13th spot. They weren't excluded at all it is Premier Youth Leauge now all the teams are in it together.


    My main point is by that strengthening the 2nd tier it creates a bigger pool of players ready for senior football once they catch up technically and physically.We seem to have 3 options available for the bottom half of youth at the moment.1)Play all year against superior players and teams and get flogged.2)Play half and half in each level (the new system).3)Keep them separated all year then promote and relegate.Im happy to see how plan #2 goes this year and after an appropriate time frame be able to answer all of the questions you posed with hard data and experience.
    You are correct in this, half way through each season when they break into 3 groups, all teams should then play against teams of similar quality every week improving all players, as well as keep more kids interested. The talent pool will remain large and hopefully increase and collectively the talent pool will improve.

    And to measure success of it like you say requires hard data and experience, that's not till the current crop of U13s finish their first year of U18s. Can't assess before because there is still players at clubs from the old systems.
    Last edited by Taffy; 02-03-2023 at 01:44 PM.

  20. #240
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    For mine, having 3 groups of 8 for the 2nd round is still the best model imo.

    After the first round of home & away the teams will be well tested and sorted.

    The 2nd round gives teams a closer challenge more often, less score blowouts etc. Sure, there'll be a first & last but less smashings.
    And for me will keep more kids in the game.

    May also get clubs to improve their youth. Going from 3rd tier to 2nd will show an improvement.

    Last, as a spectator will finally see more competitive games.

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