2023 Premier Youth League

[sapdad]

While 0 Cooks Hill teams made a grand final, and 100% play Div 1 next year.

There is enough talent in Newcastle for between 3 and 4 teams per age group.Everyone else is in the middle.Dont kid yourselves otherwise.Embrace the middle,get your kids better coaches and TD's (like some clubs are doing) and give them a reason to stay.The carry on Ive heard from one club in particular about player exodus is laughable considering the way they've behaved this year.Until then the more ambitious kids are going to want to play in the top few clubs,and the top clubs are going to chase the best talent from the middle.To single out Cooks Hill and intimate they are undeserving of a spot is pretty strange considering what they are building over there.I'd love to see who you consider more worthy of their spot.

[Largesse]

Your point around there being 3 or 4 teams is about right but I'd say enough for about 6 clubs. If you're outside of those, you develop your best for them to simply move on, which makes it tough to then make your way back up as a club.

No issue with Cooks Hill and good that they're supporting development. They definitely improved across the year. Was just pointing out they didn't have a finalist team but are going back up.

The overall evenness of Div B showed those clubs are second tier and the system worked well. Div A had some second half failures though with no consequence for next year, just left with the option to go shopping.

Will be interesting to see if it's a yo yo situation with same clubs going up and down.

[Hunter403]

Clubs sitting idle on youth getting found out now. Either get active or deservedly go to B or C grade.

Your comment seems to infer that any club in B or C is idle on youth. I can assure you that my club certainly isn't and that would be the same for most clubs from a NL1 back ground.
We run 2-3 training sessions per week, have wet weather alternative football training venues, provide pre season and wet weather gym sessions, dedicated coaches and brilliant admin backing it all up.
I'd suggest that clubs like mine are far from idle and are probably more active than some previously designated NPL clubs.
The difficulty remains that talent still thinks they get a better future playing for a club whose seniors are in the NPL over the NL1 and that there is not enough talented kids out there yet.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Your comment seems to infer that any club in B or C is idle on youth. I can assure you that my club certainly isn't and that would be the same for most clubs from a NL1 back ground.
We run 2-3 training sessions per week, have wet weather alternative football training venues, provide pre season and wet weather gym sessions, dedicated coaches and brilliant admin backing it all up.
I'd suggest that clubs like mine are far from idle and are probably more active than some previously designated NPL clubs.
The difficulty remains that talent still thinks they get a better future playing for a club whose seniors are in the NPL over the NL1 and that there is not enough talented kids out there yet.

It’ll take some time to shift the mindset.
But we are heading in the right direction.
There will be some NPL clubs happy to change their squads each year based on their first grade/NPL status and collect the $$$$, offer little in return other than a year in the jersey, players and parents move on.
Clubs that build youth and compete against the better youth teams will build their reputation accordingly. I hope. Especially this NL1 clubs that take it seriously.

Only a couple of clubs seem to be getting a good overall program from JDL, PYL to NPL.

Some clubs will always value and do youth programs better. Unfortunately, it seems the “best development” pathway involves switching clubs a few times as different clubs have different strengths.
Not necessarily a problem, but it would be the goal to give everyone development opportunities all the way through.

[samcan]

Your comment seems to infer that any club in B or C is idle on youth. I can assure you that my club certainly isn't and that would be the same for most clubs from a NL1 back ground.
We run 2-3 training sessions per week, have wet weather alternative football training venues, provide pre season and wet weather gym sessions, dedicated coaches and brilliant admin backing it all up.
I'd suggest that clubs like mine are far from idle and are probably more active than some previously designated NPL clubs.
The difficulty remains that talent still thinks they get a better future playing for a club whose seniors are in the NPL over the NL1 and that there is not enough talented kids out there yet.

Maybe your club is active but many still arent really doing the right thing.

Even some of the big 4 focus on recruitment and results over "development".

As to my other point are you getting the best kids in your area to sign with your club or are they going to other clubs. Until you get this right it will be a battle.
Are you getting coaches who really teach basics? Are they helping each other so the culture develops between ages? Many clubs ive seen the teams dont like the coach above or below. Are coaches humble or narcissistic robots?
Im not surprised at where our development is due to these effects. and ffs can we get u13s14s to run 4 passes together.... yawn

[Taffy]

I've seen the "success" of the PYL celebrated by NNSW with select stats justifying the decision to change the competition. Here are some more figures to throw into the mix:
40% of PYL div B grand finalists, including two winners, are now destined for Div 2.
While 0 Cooks Hill teams made a grand final, and 100% play Div 1 next year.

They get to go in Div 1 because overall their club performed better. 2 winners may be destined for Div 2 but that is a reflection on the overall club not individual teams.

Of course had Belswans not shit the bed and only manage 1 point in the final 2 weeks and/or had managed to get one more win across all 7 rounds then it would be them going up and Cooks Hill going down.

Olympic
Div 1 clubs started early recruitment with an advantage as they could guarantee div 1 football and poach as they please. Same will happen next year, making it difficult to retain talent to bring teams back up.

You are aware that this was happening before, clubs poaching isn't new?

What has happened is some of these lower Div 1 clubs now won't lose a bunch of players because they hated being destroyed every week. Happy to play, most teams are now more often playing more competitive matches year round which is good for development and enjoyment for all players.

More players, teams and clubs have got to experience finals, first time in a long time that Adamstown teams were in a final series, who would've expected Lakes teams to be in a grand final?

There may have been fewer blowouts but it's not an unqualified success.

It's shown that it is a lot better than what it has been the past few years.

[Taffy]

Some clubs will always value and do youth programs better. Unfortunately, it seems the ?best development? pathway involves switching clubs a few times as different clubs have different strengths.
Not necessarily a problem, but it would be the goal to give everyone development opportunities all the way through.

I'd disagree with this. While some kids have gone alright I know plenty of kids that have switched clubs every year and while they are good in their age group, many of the better players that were in their U13 team and stuck with the same club are now playing in higher age groups and seniors.

[Bremsstrahlung]

I'd disagree with this. While some kids have gone alright I know plenty of kids that have switched clubs every year and while they are good in their age group, many of the better players that were in their U13 team and stuck with the same club are now playing in higher age groups and seniors.

As I said, that’s the ideal situation, sticking with one club from JDL-PYL and NPL.

My point was that at the moment there wouldn’t be too many clubs that do all 3 very well.

[Alton]

As I said, that?s the ideal situation, sticking with one club from JDL-PYL and NPL.

My point was that at the moment there wouldn?t be too many clubs that do all 3 very well.

I?m sorry but this is the most complicated structure of youth football ever put forward in NNSW, it?s as confusing as the management/operation of senior comps finals series where the flagship premier comp is done and dusted before lower divisions. Who is putting all these ideas together?

[WOW2.0]

Surely, it would make it easier to have a regular promotion/relegation for an entire season...finish bottom 2, get relegated for the entirety of next season

This would also make it easier to provide a more equitable outcome for individual teams, rather than having to be dragged down(or up) by the "club championship" structure...which really is a pretty meaningless metric

As a parent, it would also help identify appropriate fee levels, i.e. pay X, get X...(as is, I can't imagine the div 2 "NPL" teams will lower their fees to a tier 2 level)

[Taffy]

Surely, it would make it easier to have a regular promotion/relegation for an entire season...finish bottom 2, get relegated for the entirety of next season

That was one of the original proposals, some of the lower Div1 clubs pushed back and raged about this about how it wouldn't be fair, think they wanted to still be able to say they were a Div1 team, to attract better kids and continue to charge more.

This would also make it easier to provide a more equitable outcome for individual teams, rather than having to be dragged down(or up) by the "club championship" structure...which really is a pretty meaningless metric

Not meaningless at all, shows if a club is able to foster long term and consistent development and not just because a team was lucky or had one strong cohort. There would still be all the issues with different teams playing all over the state.

As a parent, it would also help identify appropriate fee levels, i.e. pay X, get X...(as is, I can't imagine the div 2 "NPL" teams will lower their fees to a tier 2 level)

Would clubs have to charge players different rates based on which team is in Div 1 or Div 2?

[WOW2.0]

I still think the club championship is meaningless (at least the way it is calculated), look at the Jets youth finishing 2nd...despite finishing 11th, 9th, 9th, 1st & 9th...those results should never equate to a 2nd (IMO)

If it was by team (which I am a fan of), charging different rates might well be something to consider but they are free to charge what they want (I think revisiting fees is a pathway for clubs to grow their youth results though, attracting a higher standard of players then they would otherwise get...another reason publishing fees to NNSW's website (early) should be mandatory

(I haven't seen much sharing of resources between teams, so don't see much issue in having teams in different locations..if teams found themselves in different divisions)

[Eastwest]

Clubs get to go in Div 1 because overall their club performed better.
You are aware poaching isn't new?

What has happened is some of these lower Div 1 clubs now won't lose a bunch of players because they hated being destroyed every week. Happy to play, most teams are now more often playing more competitive matches year round which is good for development and enjoyment for all players.

More players, teams and clubs have got to experience finals, first time in a long time that Adamstown teams were in a final series, who would've expected Lakes teams to be in a grand final?

I agree above. Current method isnt perfect but is better than the last debacle.

You dont need to be top 4 to get a win. The bottom 4-5 teams in each grade used to endure the slaughter for a whole year. at least now they can break away for some success and as we call it here "development".

Not real sure why the word development is mentioned so much here when 99.9% players never leave the area and a handful fill out NBN comp.
Enjoyment, fitness and being a tough guy will get you as far in football and in all aspects of life as well.
"Development" is a cash cow for mine.

[The Bear]

I still think the club championship is meaningless (at least the way it is calculated), look at the Jets youth finishing 2nd...despite finishing 11th, 9th, 9th, 1st & 9th...those results should never equate to a 2nd (IMO)M)

Agree with this. Points should be allocated on the position a team is on the ladder not how many games they win 1st gets 10 points, 2nd 8, bottom zero or similar. Do that and the club championship looks a lot different. Removes the numbers skewed by one dominant team.

[The Bear]

Not real sure why the word development is mentioned so much here when 99.9% players never leave the area and a handful fill out NBN comp.
Enjoyment, fitness and being a tough guy will get you as far in football and in all aspects of life as well.
"Development" is a cash cow for mine.

100%. ?Development? totally overused when you see the numbers of players earning a living from the game locally. Club fees get the kids the life lessons. Privates and Extras fees get the coaches mortgage paid.

[Taffy]

Not real sure why the word development is mentioned so much here when 99.9% players never leave the area and a handful fill out NBN comp.

That is the way under the old method. Will take some time for the current method to start bringing in better players

[Aegon]

Agree with this. Points should be allocated on the position a team is on the ladder not how many games they win 1st gets 10 points, 2nd 8, bottom zero or similar. Do that and the club championship looks a lot different. Removes the numbers skewed by one dominant team.

I took a few minutes and ran the numbers.
Numbers allocated are number of teams minus -1 for first descending. e.g. in Phase A 1st place gets 13, 2nd place gets 12 all the way to 14th who gets 0.

Div 1 Phase A

1. Jaffas = 13-13-6-11-10 -- 53
2. Magic = 10-12-13-10-7 -- 52
3. Maitland = 9-9-10-12-9 -- 49
4. Olympic = 11-4-8-13-13 -- 49
5. North Coast = 6-8-9-7-12 -- 42
6. Valentine = 8-6-12-8-5 -- 41
7. Edgeworth = 12-3-7-9-8 -- 39
8. Mid Coast = 1-11-11-3-2 -- 28
9. Weston = 4-10-5-4-4 -- 27
10. Lakes = 7-5-4-5-3 -- 24
11. Adamstown = 5-0-0-2-11 -- 18
12. Azzurri = 2-7-1-0-6 -- 16
13. New Lambton = 3-1-2-6-1 -- 13
14. Cooks Hill = 0-2-3-1-0 -- 6

DIV A Phase B

1. Olympic = 5-1-3-7-7 -- 23
2. Jaffas = 6-7-0-3-5 -- 21
3. Edgeworth = 7-2-2-6-3 -- 20
4. Magic = 4-3-6-5-2 -- 20
5. Maitland = 2-5-4-4-4 -- 19
6. Valentine = 3-4-7-2-1 -- 17
7. North Coast = 1-0-5-1-6 -- 13
8. Weston = 0-6-1-0-0 -- 7

DIV B Phase B

1. Lakes = 7-5-6-4-6 -- 28
2. Mid Coast = 5-7-7-1-4 -- 24
3. New Lambton = 3-2-5-7-7 -- 24
4. Cooks Hill = 2-6-4-3-1 -- 16
5. Belswans = 4-1-3-5-3 -- 16
6. Adamstown = 6-0-1-2-5 -- 14
7. South Cardiff = 1-3-0-6-0 -- 10
8. Azzurri = 0-4-2-0-2 -- 8

There doesn't seem to be a dramatic difference from the actuals, although Mid Coast and BelSwans might want to argue the semantics.

[Aegon]

I still think the club championship is meaningless (at least the way it is calculated), look at the Jets youth finishing 2nd...despite finishing 11th, 9th, 9th, 1st & 9th...those results should never equate to a 2nd (IMO)

If it was by team (which I am a fan of), charging different rates might well be something to consider but they are free to charge what they want (I think revisiting fees is a pathway for clubs to grow their youth results though, attracting a higher standard of players then they would otherwise get...another reason publishing fees to NNSW's website (early) should be mandatory

(I haven't seen much sharing of resources between teams, so don't see much issue in having teams in different locations..if teams found themselves in different divisions)

It's not 11, 9, 9, 1, 9 as the 13's don't count towards club championship in FNSW Youth Leagues.

I ran the same numbers for FNSW YL1 as per my last post. Actual Points and position in brackets.

1. Wanderers = 6-15-12-14 -- 47 (1st - 213pts)
2. Mariners = 2-14-10-15 -- 41 (3rd - 197pts)
3. Jets = 7-7-15-7 -- 36 (2nd - 198pts)
4. Syd Olympic = 15-12-7-2 -- 36 (4th - 195pts)
5. Syd FC = 14-6-8-8 -- 36 (5th - 194pts)
6. Syd United = 10-2-11-12 -- 35 (9th - 179pts)
7. Blacktown = 8-4-13-9 -- 34 (8th - 179pts)
8. SD Raiders = 11-8-9-5 -- 33 (6th - 185pts)
9. Marconi = 12-9-3-6 -- 30 (7th - 180pts)
10. Hills FC = 9-5-2-13 -- 29 (12th - 162pts)
11. Manly = 3-1-14-11 -- 29 (10th - 166pts)
12. Sutherland = 5-13-4-4 -- 26 (11th - 162pts)
13. APIA = 13-3-6-1 -- 23 (14th - 147pts)
14. Wollongong = 1-10-1-10 -- 22 (13th - 148pts)
15. Rockdale = 0-11-5-0 -- 16 (15th - 135pts)
16. Mt Druitt = 4-0-0-3 -- 7 (16th - 85pts)

Regardless of how you look at it, the differences are minor.

The Jets 2nd (or 3rd regardless of how you look at it) are the only team who didn't have a team finish lower than 9th. Consistency and one high achieving team got them to where they were in the club championship.

[JettyJet]

It's not 11, 9, 9, 1, 9 as the 13's don't count towards club championship in FNSW Youth Leagues.

I ran the same numbers for FNSW YL1 as per my last post. Actual Points and position in brackets.

1. Wanderers = 6-15-12-14 -- 47 (1st - 213pts)
2. Mariners = 2-14-10-15 -- 41 (3rd - 197pts)
3. Jets = 7-7-15-7 -- 36 (2nd - 198pts)
4. Syd Olympic = 15-12-7-2 -- 36 (4th - 195pts)
5. Syd FC = 14-6-8-8 -- 36 (5th - 194pts)
6. Syd United = 10-2-11-12 -- 35 (9th - 179pts)
7. Blacktown = 8-4-13-9 -- 34 (8th - 179pts)
8. SD Raiders = 11-8-9-5 -- 33 (6th - 185pts)
9. Marconi = 12-9-3-6 -- 30 (7th - 180pts)
10. Hills FC = 9-5-2-13 -- 29 (12th - 162pts)
11. Manly = 3-1-14-11 -- 29 (10th - 166pts)
12. Sutherland = 5-13-4-4 -- 26 (11th - 162pts)
13. APIA = 13-3-6-1 -- 23 (14th - 147pts)
14. Wollongong = 1-10-1-10 -- 22 (13th - 148pts)
15. Rockdale = 0-11-5-0 -- 16 (15th - 135pts)
16. Mt Druitt = 4-0-0-3 -- 7 (16th - 85pts)

Regardless of how you look at it, the differences are minor.

The Jets 2nd (or 3rd regardless of how you look at it) are the only team who didn't have a team finish lower than 9th. Consistency and one high achieving team got them to where they were in the club championship.

Ssssh don't use facts and commonsense with the haters.

[TopCorner]

Ssssh don't use facts and commonsense with the haters.

You called?