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Thread: 2022 NPL Youth thread

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    This would be the fairest way to do it from a playing perspective,but it will never happen as the draw and ground logistics would be a nightmare.To be fair theres not many clubs that have one team right at the top and the rest at the bottom.Most clubs youth seem pretty similar spots on the table.For the one or two teams it will stuff around it wont make it worthwhile.Plus theres players helping out in the grades above on gamedays that is happening way more than i thought it would so far this year.
    sometimes a couple of ages up, especially if there ends up being a few injuries across a game day, it can be up to the football gods some weeks!

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOW2.0 View Post
    further decouple all age groups...a group of really talented group at an underperforming club should not be punished, and they should not be disincentivised to leave to pursue "better" options...just grade them all based on their previous year's performance
    This won't work as reasons from above which does hurt some clubs with that 1 strong grade.
    But clubs need to be vigilant across all grades if they really want that top division.

    Even youth it is a disadvantage for clubs who dont have $$$ but that is a barrier they need to solve.

  3. #363
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    What will be interesting when decoupling comes is how the cost will impact players/clubs. Current NPL clubs charge a lot more than NL1 clubs. Now that they are all likely to be in the same comp (albeit with multiple levels) will the "cheaper" clubs become more attractive? Might not happen immediately, but could be a consequence. And if NPL clubs are forced to be cheaper, how will that impact the senior squad and budgets.

    Interesting times ahead!
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    What will be interesting when decoupling comes is how the cost will impact players/clubs. Current NPL clubs charge a lot more than NL1 clubs. Now that they are all likely to be in the same comp (albeit with multiple levels) will the "cheaper" clubs become more attractive? Might not happen immediately, but could be a consequence. And if NPL clubs are forced to be cheaper, how will that impact the senior squad and budgets.

    Interesting times ahead!
    I cant see registrations becoming cheaper no matter what happens.They never do.As long as parents and players feel they are getting value for money it wont be an issue regardless of the grade.

  5. #365
    Senior Member Hunter403's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    I cant see registrations becoming cheaper no matter what happens.They never do.As long as parents and players feel they are getting value for money it wont be an issue regardless of the grade.
    I can't imagine too many NL1 clubs will want to raise fees to match NPL. They have struggled enough this year to filed teams and some can't. I've been told one of the reasons why Cooks Hill can't field a team this year in the 16s is the increased cost was not what parents were promised. If you are a parent of a kid in a current NPL club that gets "dropped" to the second tier, will you want to pay what you did at the top level when you are no longer in it?

    As I said, interesting times ahead!
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    I can't imagine too many NL1 clubs will want to raise fees to match NPL. They have struggled enough this year to filed teams and some can't. I've been told one of the reasons why Cooks Hill can't field a team this year in the 16s is the increased cost was not what parents were promised. If you are a parent of a kid in a current NPL club that gets "dropped" to the second tier, will you want to pay what you did at the top level when you are no longer in it?

    As I said, interesting times ahead!
    Does anyone know the difference in fees between the dearest in NPL and cheapest in NL1? I was told most NPL were around $1300.I agree that gouging clubs on rego just because they are now 'NPL' level whether level 1,2 or 3 is stupid and greedy.The federations should have a fixed fee as their cut and then let clubs charge whatever they determine to be the cost of running their programs.Id love to call for a maximum price but that wont happen either.
    Last edited by sapdad; 25-05-2022 at 04:48 PM.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    What will be interesting when decoupling comes is how the cost will impact players/clubs. Current NPL clubs charge a lot more than NL1 clubs. Now that they are all likely to be in the same comp (albeit with multiple levels) will the "cheaper" clubs become more attractive? Might not happen immediately, but could be a consequence. And if NPL clubs are forced to be cheaper, how will that impact the senior squad and budgets.
    How will this affect club finances? Decoupling won't affect where the club $$$ goes. Youth rego still goes to seniors.

    The only difference is club champion pts determines the grade and draw.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    The federations should have a fixed fee as their cut and then let clubs charge whatever they determine to be the cost of running their programs.
    Umm Northern do have a fixed fee (equates to about $70 per player). The clubs do charge whatever they want.

    NPL clubs are charging around $1,500, HitFM are around the $1,000 mark

  9. #369
    Senior Member Hunter403's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    Umm Northern do have a fixed fee (equates to about $70 per player). The clubs do charge whatever they want.

    NPL clubs are charging around $1,500, HitFM are around the $1,000 mark
    try $850 and $800 at two NL1 clubs that I know of.
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    try $850 and $800 at two NL1 clubs that I know of.
    Wow.
    10 years ago, paid 350 or 400 for seniors NBN.
    What’s changed?
    Doubt anything has changed to warrant 4x $$$.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    Umm Northern do have a fixed fee (equates to about $70 per player). The clubs do charge whatever they want.

    NPL clubs are charging around $1,500, HitFM are around the $1,000 mark
    Sorry I didnt word my post very well.I understand clubs charge whatever they want but didnt know if the feds fixed fee was the same across all levels (grassroots to seniors) or if they had different rates.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    Sorry I didnt word my post very well.I understand clubs charge whatever they want but didnt know if the feds fixed fee was the same across all levels (grassroots to seniors) or if they had different rates.
    Club Fees to NNSW for NPL are as follows:

    Per Youth player: $124.88
    Per Snr Player: $209.69
    Competition fee: $10,243.75
    Match Official Appointments officer: $770
    FFA Cup: $907.50
    Discipline Levy: $825
    Match official Fees: $13,945

    Rough numbers total then assuming 36 Snr players, 64 Youth Players:

    Total NPL Participation Fees: $44,193.49

    So only considering the money paid to NNSW that divided by 110 players is $402 per player

    That's obviously before any club costs -> Ground hire and maintenance, Coaching, TDs, Equipment, clothing etc, etc

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by AVB View Post
    Club Fees to NNSW for NPL are as follows:

    Per Youth player: $124.88
    Per Snr Player: $209.69
    Competition fee: $10,243.75
    Match Official Appointments officer: $770
    FFA Cup: $907.50
    Discipline Levy: $825
    Match official Fees: $13,945

    Rough numbers total then assuming 36 Snr players, 64 Youth Players:

    Total NPL Participation Fees: $44,193.49

    So only considering the money paid to NNSW that divided by 110 players is $402 per player

    That's obviously before any club costs -> Ground hire and maintenance, Coaching, TDs, Equipment, clothing etc, etc
    This is good insight.

    So most of our NPL clubs charge approx $1500 per head fees for youth. Some more, some less, but let’s go with $1500.

    Based on 64 youth players most clubs would generate $96K in fees. Minus $44K fees, there is a $50K surplus. How much does the ground hire/maintenance, coaching, equipment cost generally? It’s not $50K hopefully.

    Add your JDL fees on top, minus your coaching, ground fees again, and NPL clubs should have the funds available to progress well. What they do with that money however is the source of debate and frustration as most accept this goes into the senior funds.

    If we are decoupling youth, let’s decouple the fee streams as well and see whether we can develop our youth better. More money should mean better coaching, development, opportunities. That’s something we can all get on board with.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Spell Check View Post
    This is good insight.

    So most of our NPL clubs charge approx $1500 per head fees for youth. Some more, some less, but letÂ’s go with $1500.

    Based on 64 youth players most clubs would generate $96K in fees. Minus $44K fees, there is a $50K surplus. How much does the ground hire/maintenance, coaching, equipment cost generally? ItÂ’s not $50K hopefully.

    Add your JDL fees on top, minus your coaching, ground fees again, and NPL clubs should have the funds available to progress well. What they do with that money however is the source of debate and frustration as most accept this goes into the senior funds.

    If we are decoupling youth, letÂ’s decouple the fee streams as well and see whether we can develop our youth better. More money should mean better coaching, development, opportunities. ThatÂ’s something we can all get on board with.
    I think you're heavily underestimating costs for clubs here.

    Average grounds rental for year including lighting etc $30,000
    Maintenance on ground $10,000
    Clothing - $200 per player: 200 * 100 players = $20,000
    Youth coaching not sure but maybe $1500 per team? Plus TD which is mainly youth focused at maybe $10/15k? + 10/15K per 1st grade team?
    Equipment ~$5kpa?

    So let's assume 100 players at $1500 each rego, that's 150k

    less NNSW fees, that's $105K

    Less the club costs (~$95K) above is ~$10k left.

    I'm sure there are heaps of activities clubs do that I haven't considered costs for. I also see clubs at Gyms, or LMRFF. Clubs have match day physios, VEO Cameras etc

    The cost of regos is very high, but the reality is that the price is more or less the cost of running the programs. Demand has shifted to expect a much higher quality program. Qualified coaches and TDs, demand for the best quality pitches, expectations around clothing, expectations around training equipment and facilities etc

    The obvious question is how are 1st grade players paid etc, and clubs would argue that they are paid from sponsorship, gate takings, canteen taking etc.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVB View Post
    Club Fees to NNSW for NPL are as follows:

    Per Youth player: $124.88
    Per Snr Player: $209.69
    Competition fee: $10,243.75
    Match Official Appointments officer: $770
    FFA Cup: $907.50
    Discipline Levy: $825
    Match official Fees: $13,945

    Rough numbers total then assuming 36 Snr players, 64 Youth Players:

    Total NPL Participation Fees: $44,193.49

    So only considering the money paid to NNSW that divided by 110 players is $402 per player

    That's obviously before any club costs -> Ground hire and maintenance, Coaching, TDs, Equipment, clothing etc, etc
    Those numbers are really interesting thanks for posting.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by AVB View Post
    I think you're heavily underestimating costs for clubs here.

    Average grounds rental for year including lighting etc $30,000
    Maintenance on ground $10,000
    Clothing - $200 per player: 200 * 100 players = $20,000
    Youth coaching not sure but maybe $1500 per team? Plus TD which is mainly youth focused at maybe $10/15k? + 10/15K per 1st grade team?
    Equipment ~$5kpa?

    So let's assume 100 players at $1500 each rego, that's 150k

    less NNSW fees, that's $105K

    Less the club costs (~$95K) above is ~$10k left.

    I'm sure there are heaps of activities clubs do that I haven't considered costs for. I also see clubs at Gyms, or LMRFF. Clubs have match day physios, VEO Cameras etc

    The cost of regos is very high, but the reality is that the price is more or less the cost of running the programs. Demand has shifted to expect a much higher quality program. Qualified coaches and TDs, demand for the best quality pitches, expectations around clothing, expectations around training equipment and facilities etc

    The obvious question is how are 1st grade players paid etc, and clubs would argue that they are paid from sponsorship, gate takings, canteen taking etc.
    My feel is that you may be overestimating the costs for grounds, maintenance, kit. Remember that a club pays one set of ground fees whether its for JDL, youth or seniors, and then recoups fees across all these groups. Some clubs include kit in the rego fees, others charge more on top. Coaching fees are minimal, somewhere around the amount one youth player rego fees. Yes some train out at Speers Point but equipment is not an every year thing. I am confident after all outlays there is ample left for this to be ploughed back into youth but it does not. It goes into a seniors black hole and doesn't come out again.

    Yes sponsorship, gate money, canteen helps pay seniors but younger grades fees help more. I would just like to see what goes in to youth comes out at the other end. Clubs are generally doing good jobs across the cities in youth but on a shoestring when there could be more $$ if youth fees were kept separate from seniors.

    Show me a club that publishes there full fees breakdown from seniors down to JDL. If you cannot then ask why.

  17. #377
    Senior Member Hunter403's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVB View Post
    Competition fee: $10,243.75
    This is the interesting number. What on earth does this cover?
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    This is the interesting number. What on earth does this cover?
    Maintaining LMRFF, despite northern not actually owning the land.
    Middleby Gone

    Lawrie Out

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    NNSWF Memo - MEMO 41-2022

    Postponed Matches in Second Half of the Season (13-18s Only)
    As previously mentioned, we currently have 340+ rescheduled matches, some of which are now starting to be rescheduled as late as July. Many of the rescheduled matches this and coming midweeks are also unlikely to be played because of the current continued rain and will need to be rescheduled to a later date.

    Given the current weather situation is predicted to continue for the coming months, NNSWF can confirm that any match, under 13 through to under 18 (inclusive), that is postponed in the second half of the season, in the specific rounds noted below, will not be rescheduled, and will be declared 0-0. For clarity this will apply to matches in the following rounds of competitions:

    League / Rounds that will not be replayed if postponed
    NPLM 18s / Rounds 13-22 (plus rescheduled round 1 in August)
    NPLM 13-16s / Rounds 14-26
    NPLW 13-17s / Rounds 15-21
    NL1 18s / Rounds 12-22
    NL1 13-15s / Rounds 12-22

    For the avoidance of doubt, all 1st Grade and Reserves matches will be rescheduled and only declared 00 if we reach a point in the season where they do not impact final league positions.

    It is Northern NSW Football’s intention to ensure, at a minimum, all matches from the first half of the season are played. Whilst we understand not playing matches is extremely disappointing, it is realistic to predict that we will still have matches originally postponed from the first half the season being played in July and August in the lead up to finals.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  20. #380
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    Rego refunds galore

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