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Thread: 2022 NPL Youth thread

  1. #341
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    [QUOTE=The Hacker;258414]
    Quote Originally Posted by BS detecor View Post
    In the premier league the last 3 teams drop to the second division[/QUOTE

    I know then they usually go straight back down. When’s the last time a team got promoted then made the top 4 the next year. Never. Why cause they need time to build it’s not a click of the finger. But once you get there it’s also hard to fall out of the top half. It is a vicious cycle to break
    True. Kids will always get better if they play better opposition but I guess the downside is how long can a kid get towelled every week year after year before they have had enough. There are pretty much 4 teams who are only going to take points off each other and if you’re not even getting points there then the game can get hard to love.

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by BS detecor View Post

    True. Kids will always get better if they play better opposition but I guess the downside is how long can a kid get towelled every week year after year before they have had enough. There are pretty much 4 teams who are only going to take points off each other and if youíre not even getting points there then the game can get hard to love.
    Clubs can turn it around. Look at the job Maitland have done with their Youth over the last few seasons. Pro/Rel should still be part of the solution as it would incentive some clubs to take it more seriously.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  3. #343
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    If you draw a line around 10th now in 13s it leaves Charlestown as the bottom club and they copped 10 today vs Jaffas.I dont like that results are the only reference point in youth football but can understand why.I think there will always be cannon fodder its just a matter of how many kids want to cop it week in week out.Some clubs are clear that they are only working towards 18's and seniors.Some clubs spent the JDL years cutting kids and poaching others in the pursuit of results.Some kids who didnt make their 1st choice NPL team would rather drop down a division instead of going to a lower club just so they win.Will that make them better off in the hope of playing NPL seniors?I doubt it.Just to be clear i dont pretend to have all the answers,because every solution offers up a different set of problems.

  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hacker View Post
    There is always a team going to come last and in any league in any age there is a spread from top team to last team. No comp is close between every team. That’s called a fantasy. In the premier league there is 68 points between first and last. Adamstown apparently have a good 12’s team according to this forum so that helps start the cycle. Weston, Cooks Hill, Lakes, Adamstown aren’t setting the world on fire. But I imagine not through a lack of trying. Lambtons 16’s are average, Mid North Coast are in the bottom half of every ladder. You can’t click your fingers and go from last to first. If it was that easy everyone would do it. It takes time a patient. Something clearly short in some people’s opinion
    So heres the deal. 8 teams in 3 divisions Y1,Y2,Y3 with 1 team up/down. Here's why.

    If there's 8 local teams (maybe added mid/north coast) these Y1 clubs can strengthen those week grades to ensure all grades are very competitive right through. nearly every game is a contest. Initially any team with a weak age can "attract" better players.
    Now this will weaken certain clubs a little in the beginning especially if they had one good grade but these clubs are letting down other clubs in 2/3 other age divisions with lopsided games.

    One team up/down each year means that only the team going up needs to ensure all their grades are ready. Other clubs can build as they see fit to rise when they are ready if they want. Clubs like Rosebuds or Lake Mac might really suit Y2 grade as they focus wholly on the player and not results. Other clubs like Toronto might be happy in Y3 so they arent pressured to find 4 youth sides to match NL/Southy/BelS and or other strong teams that can turn kids away.

    As we have seen not everyone wants to play NPL if it means getting smashed. So this theory proposes that those last are still fairly competitive and those that arent strong enough for Y1 can be successful in decent company in Y2 or Y3.

    Right now we are kidding ourselves with this structure. Its getting harder each year to find a good game to watch.

  5. #345
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    It will be interesting to see if the youth decoupling proposal goes ahead because it looks like a step forward

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by samcan View Post
    So heres the deal. 8 teams in 3 divisions Y1,Y2,Y3 with 1 team up/down. Here's why.

    If there's 8 local teams (maybe added mid/north coast) these Y1 clubs can strengthen those week grades to ensure all grades are very competitive right through. nearly every game is a contest. Initially any team with a weak age can "attract" better players.
    Now this will weaken certain clubs a little in the beginning especially if they had one good grade but these clubs are letting down other clubs in 2/3 other age divisions with lopsided games.

    One team up/down each year means that only the team going up needs to ensure all their grades are ready. Other clubs can build as they see fit to rise when they are ready if they want. Clubs like Rosebuds or Lake Mac might really suit Y2 grade as they focus wholly on the player and not results. Other clubs like Toronto might be happy in Y3 so they arent pressured to find 4 youth sides to match NL/Southy/BelS and or other strong teams that can turn kids away.

    As we have seen not everyone wants to play NPL if it means getting smashed. So this theory proposes that those last are still fairly competitive and those that arent strong enough for Y1 can be successful in decent company in Y2 or Y3.

    Right now we are kidding ourselves with this structure. Its getting harder each year to find a good game to watch.
    I like this proposal and its pretty similar to the majority of opinions on the forum.Another thing id like to see in youth if it is indeed based on a "club championship" is that clubs are awarded some sort of incentive for their own JDL players.Not sure exactly how to word it but rewarding clubs for having NPL youth that has come through their JDL system would certainly change some clubs behavior.Maybe having an incentive for clubs to play kids with at least 2 years JDL or community experience at a club would make a difference and help clubs avoid relegation if they are on the cusp.
    Last edited by sapdad; 16-05-2022 at 11:43 AM.

  7. #347
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    [QUOTE=BS detecor;258416]
    Quote Originally Posted by The Hacker View Post

    True. Kids will always get better if they play better opposition but I guess the downside is how long can a kid get towelled every week year after year before they have had enough. There are pretty much 4 teams who are only going to take points off each other and if youíre not even getting points there then the game can get hard to love.
    Thereís a few in the older ages groups now who came out of 13s/14s from clubs down the bottom and they def deserve to be playing NPL.

    Itís definitely tough, but it does make tough players with the right mindset as well. Hard call to say that at 13 they donít deserve to be playing top tier football because of how players all develop at different times.

    Itís definitely hard to get the balance right and every kid is going to have a different developmental pathway.

  8. #348
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    [QUOTE=KITZ;258432]
    Quote Originally Posted by BS detecor View Post

    Thereís a few in the older ages groups now who came out of 13s/14s from clubs down the bottom and they def deserve to be playing NPL.

    Itís definitely tough, but it does make tough players with the right mindset as well. Hard call to say that at 13 they donít deserve to be playing top tier football because of how players all develop at different times.

    Itís definitely hard to get the balance right and every kid is going to have a different developmental pathway.
    If they actually decouple it what time frame would you do it. It would be hard to pull the trigger on it for next season

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by BS detecor View Post
    Cool story bro
    [QUOTE=The Hacker;258437]
    Quote Originally Posted by KITZ View Post

    If they actually decouple it what time frame would you do it. It would be hard to pull the trigger on it for next season
    It would be a 2 year process I believe

  10. #350
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    [QUOTE=BS detecor;258439]
    Quote Originally Posted by The Hacker View Post

    It would be a 2 year process I believe
    So 2023 and 2024 to get your house in order

  11. #351
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    I’ve heard They might incorporate a cup competition which would be an exciting addition for the youth if it was true

  12. #352
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    Pro/Rel for youth is interesting, do you include the local adult competition as well?

    Some dynamic ways clubs could think about approaching this

    Plenty of talented kids miss out due to the high costs, maybe offer those kids, with high potential scholarships, etc (pay for play opportunities are abhorrent, and hold the country back)

    A transfer system would also help to incentivise development outcomes

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOW2.0 View Post
    Pro/Rel for youth is interesting, do you include the local adult competition as well?

    Some dynamic ways clubs could think about approaching this

    Plenty of talented kids miss out due to the high costs, maybe offer those kids, with high potential scholarships, etc (pay for play opportunities are abhorrent, and hold the country back)

    A transfer system would also help to incentivise development outcomes
    What I would like to know is are North Coast and Mid Coast part of this also? Can they be relegated? The good players in those areas canít jump across to a better club if they go down a division. Thoughts?

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Carl View Post
    What I would like to know is are North Coast and Mid Coast part of this also? Can they be relegated? The good players in those areas can’t jump across to a better club if they go down a division. Thoughts?
    Yes.
    The promotion relegation things doesn’t work if there’s protected species. The aim is to end up with the best in the top, not the best 6 and 2 others.

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Carl View Post
    What I would like to know is are North Coast and Mid Coast part of this also? Can they be relegated? The good players in those areas canít jump across to a better club if they go down a division. Thoughts?
    Its a good point but I agree that they would all have to play by the same rules.NIAS being in NL1 is a good example too.Understandably it would be really tough on kids in that area who miss out but trying to make every situation perfect usually discourages any change at all.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by WOW2.0 View Post
    Pro/Rel for youth is interesting, do you include the local adult competition as well?

    Some dynamic ways clubs could think about approaching this

    Plenty of talented kids miss out due to the high costs, maybe offer those kids, with high potential scholarships, etc (pay for play opportunities are abhorrent, and hold the country back)

    A transfer system would also help to incentivise development outcomes
    Domestic transfer system is absolutely needed and is basically the only way forward to truly lower costs for talented players.

    Simply, clubs need to make some $ out of their time and effort. If they cant make it in the form of investing in the players development and picking up a fee and any future % fees as a result, they'll charge more for it. Pretty simple.

    FFA are talking about a DTS and are ready to implement it, but what I have mentioned above will, unfortunately, benefit clubs too much and not enough of the $ will funnel back to the member feds, so I assume there will be something added to it that eats at the club pie and regurgitates it back into the member feds as usual.

  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOW2.0 View Post
    Pro/Rel for youth is interesting, do you include the local adult competition as well?
    Nope. They have their own club championship points 18 res 1st.

    And no club including the travelers are exempt from pro rel.

    what it will do is get the best players against each other and allow those that arent at the level yet develop in other grades.
    Last edited by terry; 19-05-2022 at 11:39 AM.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOW2.0 View Post
    Plenty of talented kids miss out due to the high costs, maybe offer those kids, with high potential scholarships, etc (pay for play opportunities are abhorrent, and hold the country back
    Agree.

    BUT, we are in pov town with pov clubs and no chance of providing dollars to finance this. Coming out of other player rego would be a no.
    NNSW sit on hands charging everyone else like a wounded but not sure where they are spending millions.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by terry View Post
    Agree.

    BUT, we are in pov town with pov clubs and no chance of providing dollars to finance this. Coming out of other player rego would be a no.
    NNSW sit on hands charging everyone else like a wounded but not sure where they are spending millions.
    Cooks Hill has a fund set aside for exactly this purpose. To support local kids who otherwise would not be able to participate not just in NPL but football at all levels. There are ~10 kids this year who have been beneficiary of this fund.

    Clubs supporting youth players financially to participate does not have to be financed from regos either. All clubs, at all levels generate income through sponsorship, canteens, fundraisers. Football and finances should not be about the individual, players are part of a club and that club exists in a community. Choosing to spend money on community minded endeavours is part of any good community organisation.

    I'd be surprised if every club in the city didn't have some sort of support to assist players who would otherwise not afford it.

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVB View Post
    Cooks Hill has a fund set aside for exactly this purpose. To support local kids who otherwise would not be able to participate not just in NPL but football at all levels. There are ~10 kids this year who have been beneficiary of this fund.

    Clubs supporting youth players financially to participate does not have to be financed from regos either. All clubs, at all levels generate income through sponsorship, canteens, fundraisers. Football and finances should not be about the individual, players are part of a club and that club exists in a community. Choosing to spend money on community minded endeavours is part of any good community organisation.

    I'd be surprised if every club in the city didn't have some sort of support to assist players who would otherwise not afford it.
    Once again well done to Cookers. You guys seem to know how to get around the red tape inc council to move your club forward in many areas.

    Ill bet you have a plan for your youth next year?

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