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Thread: 2022 NPL Youth thread

  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Carl View Post
    In an 8 team comp there should be 4 rounds. 2 home and 2 away games against each team to make a total of 28 games. This is aligned to Football Australia’s XI Principles, one of which being that we need to be playing more games to stay in touch with the rest of our region.
    In the proposed format it will only be an 8 team comp half of the year.So it would be 11 games in phase 1 and 7 in phase 2. With pre-season and mid season comps (and semis for half the teams) it will fill out the games from minimum of 18 to around 26.Another issue surrounding this is fixtures and washouts.Surely we wont see another year like this but we are halfway through the youth season and some teams have only played 8/12 games while others 11.If those missed games are the difference between staying up or dropping down NNSW better be very organised to get replays done straight away.The other problem will be turning a draw around for the 2nd half of the season on short notice too.With teams in Tamworth,Coffs and Taree as much notice as possible needs to be given to clubs to schedule grounds for the entire 2nd half of the year depending on which division you are in.Im a big fan of the new format lets hope these sort of issues dont derail what is a really good idea.

  2. #462
    How good are Mid Coast going in Youth this season? Big credit to Larry Budgen and the guys up there for the players they are producing. Every year they lose good players to clubs down here but they keep on developing good players. I know a lot of female players are involved in the boys youth teams too, which is rare in Newy.

    Kudos.

  3. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    In the proposed format it will only be an 8 team comp half of the year.So it would be 11 games in phase 1 and 7 in phase 2. With pre-season and mid season comps (and semis for half the teams) it will fill out the games from minimum of 18 to around 26.Another issue surrounding this is fixtures and washouts.Surely we wont see another year like this but we are halfway through the youth season and some teams have only played 8/12 games while others 11.If those missed games are the difference between staying up or dropping down NNSW better be very organised to get replays done straight away.The other problem will be turning a draw around for the 2nd half of the season on short notice too.With teams in Tamworth,Coffs and Taree as much notice as possible needs to be given to clubs to schedule grounds for the entire 2nd half of the year depending on which division you are in.Im a big fan of the new format lets hope these sort of issues dont derail what is a really good idea.
    I think they might not start with a mid season drop. Split the comp
    First run it for a year, work out what works as it is then change things. Too many changes at once and it will likely be too cmplex or fall apart. Why would the number of teams in each comp change? If someone went up wouldn’t someone else be going down? It really needs to stay as simple to work out as possible.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by KITZ View Post
    Why would the number of teams in each comp change?
    This is a joke? right? This attitude is the same thats holding the whole comp back. Too scared to make the needed changes.

  5. #465
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    I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
    What happens when we get to February/March and clubs say we don’t have a 15s team.
    Do they forfeit their spot in the competition as per the rules??
    I guess their other 4 teams just assimilate into other already filled teams or miss out?
    So then current clubs have to contend with a “bye”?
    Are community clubs eligible to enter from the lowest tier? Eg could Warners Bay who assumably could meet criteria given they play WNPL enter teams?

    It’s an interesting idea whether you punish the other clubs by introducing a bye into every age group, or just one.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for clubs being committed and fulfilling their responsibility to submit teams, just devils advocate thinking of what effect it has on the comp they are trying to say is the peak.
    Guess you need that blanket “all or nothing” as you quickly descend into having gaps across all grade if you let one club away with it.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung View Post
    I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
    What happens when we get to February/March and clubs say we don’t have a 15s team.
    Do they forfeit their spot in the competition as per the rules??
    I guess their other 4 teams just assimilate into other already filled teams or miss out?
    So then current clubs have to contend with a “bye”?
    Are community clubs eligible to enter from the lowest tier? Eg could Warners Bay who assumably could meet criteria given they play WNPL enter teams?

    It’s an interesting idea whether you punish the other clubs by introducing a bye into every age group, or just one.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for clubs being committed and fulfilling their responsibility to submit teams, just devils advocate thinking of what effect it has on the comp they are trying to say is the peak.
    Guess you need that blanket “all or nothing” as you quickly descend into having gaps across all grade if you let one club away with it.
    NL1 already has a rule that says that if you can't field all youth teams then you are out of the NL1 and we have all seen how NNSWF enforce that rule....
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  7. #467
    Senior Member Hunter403's Avatar
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    Would NNSWF stepping in and "regulating" fees help solve the problem? Would say a maximum cost of say $350 make NPL/NL1 youth more attractive with clubs told to makeup any shortfall in funding by means other that billing the parents, eg canteen, sponsorship, raffles etc?
    Narrow the price gap between "premier" and "community" football.

    Discuss...
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  8. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by KITZ View Post
    Why would the number of teams in each comp change? If someone went up wouldn’t someone else be going down?.
    Sorry I read it as we start with 2 x 12 groups then split to 3 x 8 halfway through, then start the following season with 2 x 12 again.Is that how it works?Thats why I said round 1 would be 11 games and round 2 would be 7.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung View Post
    I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
    What happens when we get to February/March and clubs say we don’t have a 15s team.
    Not having a go at Brem for this. More in general.

    Thats an under statement. If we researched we can see we certainly dont have enough quality.

    Does anyone read previous posts? or do we just read our mates responses...
    Showed how many teams are missing above.

    Even 16 teams is a struggle, thats why 8x8 and maybe a chest beaters 3rd 8 would work.
    Last edited by JustMe; 06-06-2022 at 10:55 AM.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    Would NNSWF stepping in and "regulating" fees help solve the problem? .
    I think this may help get more than the 16 clubs we currently deserve. remember theres around 60 players per club for the 4 ages.

    At 16 clubs thats 960 kids all coming from this league loving country town that are supposed to be elite to pretty good. Lets not forget technology takes most kids indoors fulltime.

    Maybe if we could get funding from top down like nrl afl. We could get some more in at this level.

  11. #471
    Senior Member Hunter403's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    Sorry I read it as we start with 2 x 12 groups then split to 3 x 8 halfway through, then start the following season with 2 x 12 again.Is that how it works?
    That is how it works
    "It is not that I am afraid to die; its just that I don't want to be there when it happens" - Woody Allen

  12. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    Sorry I read it as we start with 2 x 12 groups then split to 3 x 8 halfway through, then start the following season with 2 x 12 again.Is that how it works?Thats why I said round 1 would be 11 games and round 2 would be 7.
    The original proposal was as per the below - although it may have changed since:
    2023 Mid 2023 2024 Mid 2024
    Youth Division 1 Youth League A Youth Division 1 Youth League A
    NPL club 1 Division 1 1st League A 1st Division 1 1st
    NPL club 2 Division 1 2nd League A 2nd Division 1 2nd
    NPL club 3 Division 1 3rd League A 3rd Division 1 3rd
    NPL club 4 Division 1 4th League A 4th Division 1 4th
    NPL club 5 Division 1 5th League A 5th Division 1 5th
    NPL club 6 Division 1 6th League A 6th Division 1 6th
    NPL club 7 Division 1 7th League A 7th Division 1 7th
    NPL club 8 Division 1 8th League A 8th Division 1 8th
    NPL club 9 Youth League B League B 1st Youth League B
    NPL club 10 Division 1 9th League B 2nd Division 1 9th
    NPL club 11 Division 1 10th League B 3rd Division 1 10th
    NPL club 12 Division 1 11th League B 4th Division 1 11th
    NPL club 13 Division 1 12th Youth Division 2 Division 1 12th
    Youth Division 2 Division 1 13th League B 5th Division 2 1st
    NL club 1 Division 2 1st League B 6th Division 2 2nd
    NL club 2 Division 2 2nd League B 7th Division 2 3rd
    NL club 3 Division 2 3rd League B 8th Division 2 4th
    NL club 4 Youth League C League C 1st Youth League C
    NL club 5 Division 2 4th League C 2nd Division 2 5th
    NL club 6 Division 2 5th League C 3rd Division 2 6th
    NL club 7 Division 2 6th League C 4th Division 2 7th
    NL club 8 Division 2 7th League C 5th Division 2 8th
    NL club 9 Division 2 8th League C 6th Division 2 9th
    NL club 10 Division 2 9th League C 7th Division 2 10th
    NL club 11 Division 2 10th League C 8th Division 2 11th
    Division 2 11th Division 2 12th

    So on and so forth
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Aegon View Post
    The original proposal was as per the below - although it may have changed since:
    2023 Mid 2023 2024 Mid 2024
    Youth Division 1 Youth League A Youth Division 1 Youth League A
    NPL club 1 Division 1 1st League A 1st Division 1 1st
    NPL club 2 Division 1 2nd League A 2nd Division 1 2nd
    NPL club 3 Division 1 3rd League A 3rd Division 1 3rd
    NPL club 4 Division 1 4th League A 4th Division 1 4th
    NPL club 5 Division 1 5th League A 5th Division 1 5th
    NPL club 6 Division 1 6th League A 6th Division 1 6th
    NPL club 7 Division 1 7th League A 7th Division 1 7th
    NPL club 8 Division 1 8th League A 8th Division 1 8th
    NPL club 9 Youth League B League B 1st Youth League B
    NPL club 10 Division 1 9th League B 2nd Division 1 9th
    NPL club 11 Division 1 10th League B 3rd Division 1 10th
    NPL club 12 Division 1 11th League B 4th Division 1 11th
    NPL club 13 Division 1 12th Youth Division 2 Division 1 12th
    Youth Division 2 Division 1 13th League B 5th Division 2 1st
    NL club 1 Division 2 1st League B 6th Division 2 2nd
    NL club 2 Division 2 2nd League B 7th Division 2 3rd
    NL club 3 Division 2 3rd League B 8th Division 2 4th
    NL club 4 Youth League C League C 1st Youth League C
    NL club 5 Division 2 4th League C 2nd Division 2 5th
    NL club 6 Division 2 5th League C 3rd Division 2 6th
    NL club 7 Division 2 6th League C 4th Division 2 7th
    NL club 8 Division 2 7th League C 5th Division 2 8th
    NL club 9 Division 2 8th League C 6th Division 2 9th
    NL club 10 Division 2 9th League C 7th Division 2 10th
    NL club 11 Division 2 10th League C 8th Division 2 11th
    Division 2 11th Division 2 12th

    So on and so forth
    So the mid-season split happens every year? I took the split to be only in Year 1 to form the two leagues for 2024 and then Northern would introduce promotion/relegation between div 1 and div 2.

    Are the positions are based on club championship points? Can't imagine we could have a different line up of teams across 13's - 16's. Ground allocation would be a nightmare.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung View Post
    I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
    What happens when we get to February/March and clubs say we don’t have a 15s team.
    Do they forfeit their spot in the competition as per the rules??
    I guess their other 4 teams just assimilate into other already filled teams or miss out?
    So then current clubs have to contend with a “bye”?
    Are community clubs eligible to enter from the lowest tier? Eg could Warners Bay who assumably could meet criteria given they play WNPL enter teams?

    It’s an interesting idea whether you punish the other clubs by introducing a bye into every age group, or just one.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for clubs being committed and fulfilling their responsibility to submit teams, just devils advocate thinking of what effect it has on the comp they are trying to say is the peak.
    Guess you need that blanket “all or nothing” as you quickly descend into having gaps across all grade if you let one club away with it.
    It has to be one out, all out. We'll lose plenty of players by natural selection and youth and community football will benefit no end.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter403 View Post
    Would NNSWF stepping in and "regulating" fees help solve the problem? Would say a maximum cost of say $350 make NPL/NL1 youth more attractive with clubs told to makeup any shortfall in funding by means other that billing the parents, eg canteen, sponsorship, raffles etc?
    Narrow the price gap between "premier" and "community" football.

    Discuss...
    I know this is devil's advocate talk but you are kidding Hunter. Clubs are not doing youth for anything less than 4 x $350 a season. Clubs have become lazy and fundraising for their programs is a thing of the past. Why would they when parents are so willing to pay the price asked?

  16. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spell Check View Post
    So the mid-season split happens every year? I took the split to be only in Year 1 to form the two leagues for 2024 and then Northern would introduce promotion/relegation between div 1 and div 2.
    The proposal said for 2024 all teams play each other (within their division) once before progressing to the league stage.
    I took the above to mean it was going to be an ongoing mid year split.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spell Check View Post
    Are the positions are based on club championship points? Can't imagine we could have a different line up of teams across 13's - 16's. Ground allocation would be a nightmare.
    My understanding is that it is club championship based. At the proposal stage it was including 18's but I think that may have been changed.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  17. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung View Post
    I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
    This is always the tricky part.We need to have enough spots that every kid from 9-12 who shows promise gets an opportunity.By opening up spots all the way to a 24th team,it means that the kids at the very top of NPL(1) get constant high level games,and teams below get to build either individually or as a team and get rewarded with taking their teams up or individual kids get picked up in higher level teams.Im still not convinced that we are doing a great job capturing every promising junior playing community at clubs like Mayfield,Cardiff and teams up the Valley to name a few.If i was running a club struggling for numbers id have close relationships with any surrounding community clubs and invite their best kids into the NPL level program if they want.If its done up front and theres something in it for the community club it might be a good relaitonship that benefits everyone.Not sure who was involved with Suburbs on here but they make a great point about losing their best community kids to JDL whilst not being able to run it themselves.There has to be a way for kids to get a chance and filling these 24 teams whilst at the same time not killing community clubs who do so much great work.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by sapdad View Post
    This is always the tricky part.We need to have enough spots that every kid from 9-12 who shows promise gets an opportunity.By opening up spots all the way to a 24th team,it means that the kids at the very top of NPL(1) get constant high level games,and teams below get to build either individually or as a team and get rewarded with taking their teams up or individual kids get picked up in higher level teams.Im still not convinced that we are doing a great job capturing every promising junior playing community at clubs like Mayfield,Cardiff and teams up the Valley to name a few.If i was running a club struggling for numbers id have close relationships with any surrounding community clubs and invite their best kids into the NPL level program if they want.If its done up front and theres something in it for the community club it might be a good relaitonship that benefits everyone.Not sure who was involved with Suburbs on here but they make a great point about losing their best community kids to JDL whilst not being able to run it themselves.There has to be a way for kids to get a chance and filling these 24 teams whilst at the same time not killing community clubs who do so much great work.

    First ask yourself - whats in it for the FA and Member Federations to care if a community club collapses?

    Then ask yourself - what's in it for the FA and Member Federations if big clubs with drawcard names can have multiple JDL/SAP teams?

    Then you have your answer as to why nothing is done to help community clubs.

    The money flows up in football in Australia. Community clubs are locked out of the tier above them, premier clubs are locked out of the tier above them. Semi-pro clubs are locked out of the professional tier.

    Rego funds a lot of that. You pay a lot less rego at community level.

  19. #479
    Anyone against change has a point. Ask yourself, why do we need a strong NPL. Who are we going to compare ourselves against year in year out?
    Just need to be good enough for a long ball trophy win in Newy at any level.

    we have Jets/Mariners for those striving to go highest but that needs a fix as well.
    btw the proposal sounds ok. At least we are having a go at something different.

  20. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessepinkman View Post
    First ask yourself - whats in it for the FA and Member Federations to care if a community club collapses?

    Then ask yourself - what's in it for the FA and Member Federations if big clubs with drawcard names can have multiple JDL/SAP teams?

    Then you have your answer as to why nothing is done to help community clubs.

    The money flows up in football in Australia. Community clubs are locked out of the tier above them, premier clubs are locked out of the tier above them. Semi-pro clubs are locked out of the professional tier.

    Rego funds a lot of that. You pay a lot less rego at community level.
    Thankfully I havent been around long enough to have the slightest clue what youre talking about.If this is where junior football ends up then god help us all.I was just trying to suggest a way to get the best couple of kids in each community club an opportunity if they want it.All good though.

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