Page 12 of 43 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 240 of 858

Thread: 2022 NPL Youth thread

  1. #221
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by The Berlin Wall View Post
    This is close to spot on. There is not a club in the HIT that will make a dent in any NPL age group at the mo. NL will dominant most ages this year but the kids playing there don't want a bar of that competitive NPL smoke. Check out how all their better kids jump ship before U12.
    And a lot jump out of NPL who decide they don't like it there as well after the first year or two.

    Maybe it means there's a place for the competition below to exist for the youth, but I think the chest beating that goes on up the top of that comp is misguided - I did hear a lot of commentary when we played NL last season about how they deserved to be in NPL more than us.

    But they completely missed the point that if they wanted to be in NPL they would have been in the NPL to begin with slogging it out with the rest of the boys even if it meant not being at a club at the top of the ladder.

    I think Cooks hill this season will demonstrate why just moving the teams around like suggested doesn't really solve anything, best case teams coming up realise they are just going to get flogged and wait to go back down, worst case kids will leave the sport even more than they are already due to the constant upheaval, or even more disruptive they will be jumping ship in even more numbers each season to try and stay in the top tier of football every year.

    There really isn't the amount of players who want to be in the top tier by 16's as it stands now (i.e see cooks hill - no 16s). Decoupling was a serious consideration when we moved clubs to not end up being stuck next season in a team who weren't likely going to stay in NPL, which meant either moving to a club that likely wouldn't be down there, or playing up and potentially being out of youth football before that point.

  2. #222
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    152
    I think we might be getting a little carried away with the overall quality in NPL Youth. NL1 teams should be a clear step below but there are zero guarantees the bottom 5 NPL teams finish ahead of NL and even now Belswans. Trial form showed that. That's surely good for the game though?. Ambitious second tier clubs having a crack? It exists all over the football world except here where the NPL clubs have no consequence for failure. If kids from these clubs don't want to go to Lakes or Rosebuds, what's the issue? Why do kids stay at NL and play at Alder Park when they could get a start at Rosebuds and play on Adamstown 1 every second week? Better coaches? Better TD? Better environment? The NPL Youth needs something ASAP. Too many promising NPL Youth who are now 19/20 playing Zone League or AA on the beers. Only a few clubs give Youth a decent chance. Northern have created a ceiling, the ceiling stifles progress. Football suffers. FYI - Cooks Hill Youth have been 3rd or 4th best in NL1 for a couple years now. I know they culled them when NPL was granted but they dropped the ball on their kids for some reason a couple of years ago. They were always the best of NL1 but overtaken by NL.

  3. #223
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    571
    Quote Originally Posted by BBscone View Post
    Why do kids stay at NL and play at Alder Park when they could get a start at Rosebuds and play on Adamstown 1 every second week? Better coaches? Better TD? Better environment?
    A big chunk of them are there because they dont want to play Magic/Olympic/Maitland/Jaffas 8 times a season.Ill always give kids who front up to play for Lakes/Cookers/Adamstown credit because even if their teams arent the same level a big % of them are there to get better.Standout players in the bottom clubs will usually get an opportunity elsewhere at some stage.

  4. #224
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    571
    Quote Originally Posted by BBscone View Post
    I think we might be getting a little carried away with the overall quality in NPL Youth. NL1 teams should be a clear step below but there are zero guarantees the bottom 5 NPL teams finish ahead of NL and even now Belswans. Trial form showed that. That's surely good for the game though?. Ambitious second tier clubs having a crack?
    I think thats where we all agree that a 3 tiered system of 8/10 teams each would see Belswans/NL/Adamstown/Lakes/Sth Cardiff all playing each other more regularly.It would also give some real consequences of success and failure to any clubs that outgrow their division.

  5. #225
    Moderator Aegon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Valentine
    Posts
    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    A very good point, the status quo is doing nothing to expand the pool of players, doing nothing to force clubs to ensure they have proper Youth development program, doing nothing to improve kids. We are the only major federation in Australia to not have promotion and relegation amongst Youth (or seniors for that matter) and it shows by how bad it is.

    I know NPL clubs don't like it because it suddenly means they might have to focus on actually making their players better. Decouple with promotion/relegation will be the shot in the arm the dismal state of Newcastle football needs.
    Lack of promotion and relegation for youth removes any and all accountability. I couldn't agree with you more.
    All opinions expressed here are my own.

    "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin

  6. #226
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    A very good point, the status quo is doing nothing to expand the pool of players, doing nothing to force clubs to ensure they have proper Youth development program, doing nothing to improve kids. We are the only major federation in Australia to not have promotion and relegation amongst Youth (or seniors for that matter) and it shows by how bad it is.

    I know NPL clubs don't like it because it suddenly means they might have to focus on actually making their players better. Decouple with promotion/relegation will be the shot in the arm the dismal state of Newcastle football needs.
    Where do you think all these players are going to magically appear from though that expands the pool of players? Ive seen what it looks like at both ends of the table and I really don't think decoupling or promotion / relegation changes any of it. The kids that don't want to be at the bottom of the table will never play there, the kids that do play there and want to be seen to be better will try and move out of those teams where there is constant movement in and out of top div in order to play their most competitive football. I think getting more players in requires a different strategy then prom/rel - but it will definitely test current players in different ways at certain points of the table and have some effect on the state of football in northern. I'm just not sure if it will be entirely positive, or a mixed bag at the end of the day.

    Will be interested to see how it plays out.

  7. #227
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    571
    Quote Originally Posted by KITZ View Post
    Where do you think all these players are going to magically appear from though that expands the pool of players?.
    The simple answer to this is JDL.And no it wont be this year,or next year,but it will eventually when the likes of Sth Cardiff,Bel Swans,Kahibah all have kids coming through that have had the same development opportunities as the Magics/Jaffas/Olympics.On your other point i agree that having 8 teams instead of 13 will mean that an Edgeworth, Charlestown or Mid Coast will all of a sudden be at the bottom in some divisions and how will the parents and kids handle that?Its a good question i dont have an answer for.

  8. #228
    By having promotion and relegation brings about the following -

    1 - Having more games which have a greater importance to them. If you are at a threat of relegation you have to win games for survival rather than going through the motions, maybe this feeling of success will be the first time players have tasted this and then creates a feel good feeling about that team which could lead to future success. Also the more games with relevance will improve training number throughout the season.

    2 - Giving every team within the Newcastle region hope to win the top title. I agree this is unlikely, but why not? Why shouldn't every player have the opportunity of trying to win the highest competition possible to them.

    3 - Give every player the chance to showcase their talents against the best players of their age groups.

    4 - Allow Northern NSWF to see more players to identify rather than dismissing them due to the level they are currently playing.

    5 - Coaches have different problems with teams that aren't necessarily following the FFA system. ie long ball, physical players, 4-4-2, keeper kick long. (just presuming)

    6 - Players have different problems to deal with as above.

    7 - Clubs will have more players to scout and offer spots to based on watching other players rather than giving these spots to the same old players, maybe providing them with some perspective about how good they really are.

    8 - As above for parents.

    9 - The best teams/players have to perform consistently for the whole season not just finals.

    10 - More fans/parents at some of the smaller clubs increasing revenue for the that club to improve facilities, equipment, VEO camera or staff. Greater sponsorship opportunities because of greater exposure.

    11 - Clubs might take the competition more serious and TD's may actually be held accountable for their roles.

    12 - Promotion and relegation adds a human element which is missing from the FFA, players will deal with pressure, adversity, success, joy, happiness. These are lessons that ned to be taken into the real world when they are older.

  9. #229
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    370
    Quote Originally Posted by Aegon View Post
    Lack of promotion and relegation for youth removes any and all accountability. I couldn't agree with you more.
    Quote Originally Posted by THEBIGCHEESE View Post
    Giving every team within the Newcastle region hope to win the top title. I agree this is unlikely, but why not? Why shouldn't every player have the opportunity of trying to win the highest competition possible to them.
    Do clubs need to have all teams in the same div or can they be separated according to strength?

    1. Play the first round in the 2 divisions of 12 teams as per schedule. Bottom 3 NPL club go down for 2nd round. Top 3 NL1 teams go up. (22 games) then semis

    or

    2. Have 3 divs of 8. Play 1 round (7 games). Bottom team down top team up for final 2 rounds. (21 games) semis for each div.
    Quote Originally Posted by Newysports2.0 View Post
    The name is obviously a pisstake if you can’t tell
    Quote Originally Posted by Jardelsimage View Post
    the pisstake is on, who would call themselves after a pedo.....

  10. #230
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    152
    All of it will require tough but sensible conversations from Northern. NPL Clubs continuing to sit on their hands seriously needs to be addressed. JDL has at least opened up opportunity and aside from starry eyed parents taking Johnny and Mary off to seek a vein opportunity at a glamour club, in the main, good clubs do it well. Cruyff said your best Coaches should be Youth Coaches. Too many TDs are hands off at JDL level. Good TDs should be at JDL AND Youth training AND games. Hence why a Head Coach can't be a dual TD. Specialist role. De couple. Make it fluid, change change change. The National teams show that something is not working over the last 10-12 years. Watch a local NPL game. The quality has dropped drastically over a similar period. All overseen by Northern.

  11. #231
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    Ideally you would split teams but the logistics is a nightmare when you consider players back up the next team. Which is either needed because of injury but also done for development.

    If you had an U13s team play at Blacksmiths, U14s at Cooks Square, U15s at Darling Park, and U16s at Coffs Harbour. Wouldn't be able to have players play more than one game.
    Its not really workable is it. The clubs wouldn't want to try and organise it, it would be hard for the coaching staff, especially if someone is sick on the day, the same for the players - and it kills opportunity for them to mix it with the older boys, and a lot of them thrive on it.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Singlespeed View Post
    I am not against promotion and relegation, but I just do not see it being the thing that solves all the issues. It might fix some issues, it might even make the end of season recruitment circus worse. Recruitment will be more important.

    Currently the teams at the bottom are probably doing the most development of players, because they have to, and every-time they do develop players they get poached by or move to the "bigger" clubs. You cannot say just because a club is in the lower ranks of the competition that they are not developing or trying to develop players.

    The other issue I see with it is that teams will need to start "playing to win" near the end of the season - which is good and bad. The good is there is something to play for and consequences of losing, the bad is that the style of play will go out the window and development can suffer.

    What parents need is a some sort of ranking on the quality of the coaching/development at the clubs. That is difficult, but do able. Currently the only thing to go by is results - so recruitment is king, the good kids tend to go to the "winning" clubs (as what else can they judge it on?), so it is a never ending cycle.
    I’m so over hearing the boring cry of we can’t have kids playing to win it will stunt their development.


    At what point do you develop a winning mentality ? Skills only take you so far.

    The cotton wool approach is pathetic by the time NPL time comes around part of the development of players it teaching them how to win.

    Promotion/ Relegation gives kids/clubs so many more opportunities to be competitive and play competitive games

    Yes the big clubs will always be a destination of choice, but for those who don’t make it or chose not to playing in a competitive environment where you also have a chance to win more then you lose is a fantastic position to be in.

    Also allows big clubs like NL to retain players and develop into a destination club because they have the ability to rise

    Not going to happen over night but all clubs will find their level and will push to develop players to get winning results because let’s face it at some point in life winning matters
    Last edited by Take it easy; 01-04-2022 at 11:45 AM.

  13. #233
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    370
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatscheese View Post
    Ideally you would split teams but the logistics is a nightmare when you consider players back up the next team. Which is either needed because of injury but also done for development.

    If you had an U13s team play at Blacksmiths, U14s at Cooks Square, U15s at Darling Park, and U16s at Coffs Harbour. Wouldn't be able to have players play more than one game.
    Fair enough.

    So all teams stay in same tier aka current Metro NPL Youth. That is a decent model.
    Quote Originally Posted by Newysports2.0 View Post
    The name is obviously a pisstake if you can’t tell
    Quote Originally Posted by Jardelsimage View Post
    the pisstake is on, who would call themselves after a pedo.....

  14. #234
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    314
    Quote Originally Posted by Take it easy View Post
    I’m so over hearing the boring cry of we can’t have kids playing to win it will stunt their development.


    At what point do you develop a winning mentality ? Skills only take you so far.

    The cotton wool approach is pathetic by the time NPL time comes around part of the development of players it teaching them how to win.

    Promotion/ Relegation gives kids/clubs so many more opportunities to be competitive and play competitive games

    Yes the big clubs will always be a destination of choice, but for those who don’t make it or chose not to playing in a competitive environment where you also have a chance to win more then you lose is a fantastic position to be in.

    Also allows big clubs like NL to retain players and develop into a destination club because they have the ability to rise

    Not going to happen over night but all clubs will find their level and will push to develop players to get winning results because let’s face it at some point in life winning matters
    Essentially yes.
    If the kids with a bit of competitive getup play against each other than good.
    Thats why the 3 grades in youth would be good. If 1sts are tearing each other up div2 might be a different game to suit. Who knows we wont have the balls to try it anyway.

  15. #235
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,350
    Quote Originally Posted by KITZ View Post
    Its not really workable is it. The clubs wouldn't want to try and organise it, it would be hard for the coaching staff, especially if someone is sick on the day, the same for the players - and it kills opportunity for them to mix it with the older boys, and a lot of them thrive on it.
    Agree, hence why I said it will be a nightmare

  16. #236
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    571
    Quote Originally Posted by Take it easy View Post
    I’m so over hearing the boring cry of we can’t have kids playing to win it will stunt their development.
    I dont think anyone is protesting 13's and up being about winning and I agree with your points.In the 2 age groups I'm involved with the best footballing teams get the best results anyway.Teams trying to catch them need to realise the only way to consistently win is to consistently outplay them.The odd jagged result because you got lucky with some long balls or a physical advantage is not sustainable.And with good football and good results comes more players wanting to be a part of that.Ive seen some teams in the lower third of the table play some good stuff and have some really good coaching but still cop some floggings.If they manage to sell the players on this and maybe even recruit a bit more quality they will progress just fine over time.

  17. #237
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    456
    I hope we get some games on that aren't just JDL or YWPL this weekend, this forum is feeling a bit tame ATM

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by KITZ View Post
    I hope we get some games on that aren't just JDL or YWPL this weekend, this forum is feeling a bit tame ATM
    🤣🤣🤣

    The Jets NPL teams have been winning so that punching bag has slowed down too.

  19. #239
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    294
    Quote Originally Posted by Take it easy View Post
    ������

    The Jets NPL teams have been winning so that punching bag has slowed down too.
    Pretty sure they lost 3 out of 5 grades last week.

  20. #240
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by BS detecor View Post
    Pretty sure they lost 3 out of 5 grades last week.
    Ah, almost got there! lol.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •