I can see there being contentious decisions throughout the season, so post in here any dodgy decisions and maybe any local refs or people who could quote the rules can say whether it was correct or not?
First up Birraz red card Rd 1.
As far as I was aware, for it to be a red card it had to be an intentional or deliberate movement for handball. Ball hit his chest first then rebounded, so how could that have been deliberate? Or do I have the rules wrong?
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Agreed, last I looked it was intentional. Even if it did stop a goal scoring chance, wheres the foul? Are the HAL refs going to be giving out red cards when a keeper makes a save or a defender gets in the way? It was an absolute joke of a decision.Originally Posted by furns
Got to feel sorry for Birghitti about the management not having the balls to appeal it.
Waving your hands around and assuming a star jump position outside the box would be considered intentional.
If he jumped with his hands behind his back or by his sides then we might have a case.
Ref got it right.
When you jump to heads or chest the ball your arms raise up to keep your balance. I can see both arguments but i would lean towards a yellow
To quote somebody else in another thread, when he comes out like an albatross, arms wide open in the arm, away from his body, he is asking for trouble. His intention was to block the ball. Spreading his arms was intentional to make himself larger. If the ball hits his arm directly, I have no hesitations in the Red. But, as it came off his chest and onto the arm, it's really free interpretation. IMO, I have no issue with the decision, ref had a split second to react, he had all the Adelaide players screaming for a red and see's Birigehtti coming out with his arms out and ball appears to come off the arm, no question - red. However, If ref sees the ball come off his chest then onto the arm, it could go 50-50 for me. In 90% of situations now, if the players arm is away from his body, and the ball strikes it, it will be given hand ball. His arms don't have to be there. You see so many defenders, I know I do now, in and around the box, defending with their arms behind their back to stop a cross hitting their arm and being deemed a penalty/free kick.
Personally, I hate the terminology "deliberately", nobody knows if it were deliberate except the player.
Ref made far worse decisions as far as I'm concerned. On another day, we could have had 3 penalties.
Bremsstrahlung, he had longer than that and could have consulted his linesman. Even if he did give the red, it should have been rescinded upon further investigation by the Match Review Committee.
Law 12 states. "denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball".
Interpretation says:
Even if he came out with his hands out, he did not deliberately handle the ball. The ball rebounded off his chest and hit his upper arm. Never did he move his hand towards the ball after the rebound other than his momentum.Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an infringement
Last edited by Thomas477; 08-10-2012 at 04:08 PM.
Thomas477 makes a good case.
In the rules of baseball a strike is anything over the plate, above the knee, and below the chest.
By convention anything outside 6" above or below the players belt line is rarely if ever called a strike.
In football, by convention jumping around with your hands in the air like Birgs did is an intentional and indeed deliberate act to deny the opposition a goal scoring opportunity.
Hence, while the rules say we were robbed I'm guessing that by convention we were not.
I'm not denying he came out spreadeagled, had the ball hit his hand directly I would have agreed that it was a red card, but given it took the deflection off his chest he could not have moved his hand away from the balls path. Thats my main issue with it, the fact that it took a deflection, if it hadn't I would be in complete agreement with you.
I don't have a problem with it.
Why does he come out with his arms outstretched? He's trying to make himself bigger, harder to get around, to give himself an advantage. It is his intention to have his arms open.
Whether it deflects or not, the ball still hits his arm, which is intentionally placed to give himself an advantage. He gains an advantage having his hand there, and having the ball hit his arm. Free Kick. Since it was a goal scoring opportunity, Red Card.
EDIT: Strawman's argument. Corner, Keeper comes out to punch it clear, falls, player on goal line raises his hands to appeal a free-kick. Striker has a shot, deflects off a player and strikes the players hand before being cleared off the line.
Last edited by Bremsstrahlung; 08-10-2012 at 06:29 PM.
I don't think he gave the ref much choice. Yes it did rebound off his chest, but his arms were out in an unnatural position and he ran the risk of the ball coming into contact with them. Once the ref deems it to be handball there really isn't any other option but to send him off.
obviously the club don't think they've got a case
I hope he likes prison food.......and penis
This. Unlucky but the Ref was left with no choice. I was miles away but first reaction was Red Card
Unnatural would be jumping with your hands by your side.
who jumps with their arms out like that?
Jeez, how far do we want to take this intentional/unintentional debate. Are defenders allowed to do star jumps in walls now? How about erryone runs around doing aeroplanes.
You have to draw a line at some point, and I'd say a keeper jumping up with his arms stretched out is a pretty safe call for a red. If Galekovic had done something similar and gotten away with it there would have been a riot.
Not for somebody trying to avoid infringing the laws of the game. If you were playing on the field, would you launch yourself at the ball like he did with arms outstretched? I argue most people would have their arms across their chest to jump and then turn their back.
Oh well, decision made. Consequences too be had. Seen too many similar send offs this year in NBN to expect anything different.
Who runs and jumps with their arms static by their side. Go out side and try it.
Jumping in a wall from a static position is an entirely different motion to jumping while running.
clearly not running.
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