GospelOriginally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
Gospel
I know I've been vocal about it not being a handball, but since when has the rule stated that handball is defined by gaining an advantage by spreading your arms? Last I looked it was deliberately using your hands to affect the ball. Biraz's intent was to stop Vidosic getting the ball past him, which he did when he chested it. Anything after that is accidental.
Just waiting for another trivial send off this w/e.
His arms were deliberately placed in that position to give himself an advantage. (Surely, he doesn't naturally jump like that? Tell me, what defender would jump at an attacker like that if he was trying to cross the ball into the box?)
In my opinion, he's intentionally moving his hands into a position he knows the ball could/will go. When ball strikes, said arm, he has intentionally impeded the ball. To me, the fact it comes of his chest, doesn't suddenly change his intentions.
Even as a goal keeper, once he comes out of the box, he has no right to have his hands/arms out like that and the ref has no choice. People are saying it should have been yellow because it was "an accident", but he was the last man and the ball struck his arm.
This is good debate
Yes his hands were probably in an in-natural position but my point is twofold, 1, when has holding your arm out to gain an advantage over the opposition a "handball"? And on this, the rules state, "the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement".
2nd, the ball did not hit his arm directly, the fact is that Dario kicked it into his chest. This was Biraz's intent was to stop Dario kicking it past him. He does this by using his chest. The ball then rebounds off his chest towards the corner, away from danger, and he could not get his arm out of the way of the deflection which is what caused the handball ergo accidental ergo not a handball
Tis indeed a good debate. I can definitely see your point, to an extent, though I disagree.This is good debate
Yes his hands were probably in an in-natural position but my point is twofold, 1, when has holding your arm out to gain an advantage over the opposition a "handball"? And on this, the rules state, "the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement".
2nd, the ball did not hit his arm directly, the fact is that Dario kicked it into his chest. This was Biraz's intent was to stop Dario kicking it past him. He does this by using his chest. The ball then rebounds off his chest towards the corner, away from danger, and he could not get his arm out of the way of the deflection which is what caused the handball ergo accidental ergo not a handball
Holding his hand to gain an advantage isn't the handball. The handball is when the ball hits his arm - which has been intentionally placed (If we wan't to get into nitty gritty, on the slow motion, it shows his arm make a movement towards the ball, from memory....). Just because the rule states, "does not necessarily" doesn't translate to "never".
2 Examples:
1. Harry Kewell World Cup Send off. I don't believe this was a send off. I think the interpretation of, "does not necessarily" applies here. His arm is across his chest. If his arm is not there, it hits his chest/abdomen. Similarly, players in the wall who cover their man parts. If the ball was to hit their arm in this case, although arms are in an unnatural position, I don't think such case would be punishable even with a free kick.
2. Players in the wall all stand next to each other, in star jump positions. Ball hits their arm, which is raised from their side, Hand ball. Do you not agree? Similarly, if the ball was to rebound off a players chest in the wall, and hit another players arm it would be handball (in my opinion at least).
The Slow Motion replay, shows the ball hit the chest, then the arm. Watch it in real time, you can barely see the deviation. In real time, it would appear simultaneous.
In Summary, I think it is a handball, punishable by a free kick. I can see the reasoning behind a Red Card. But i can also see the argument that a Yellow Card could be given for as the ball was not travelling toward goal after it hit his chest.
Agree to Disagree I guess.
Semi-related: Does anybody know how the appeal process works? Does the defendant propose their argument to the panel, who then make a decision? Or is their also a prosecutor type figure who reinforces the laws and why, by law, something is deemed a send off, and they make their decision?
Either way, I don't think all 3/4 panel members would say that was not handball. So probably a good move not contesting it.
As far as the appeal processes go I think there are only certain avenues you can appeal on. Serious offences such as High Five Danny Vukobitch you can appeal on the length of suspension being excessive.
You can also appeal if in the event of say a brawl takes place and ref sends off Player A yet Player A done nothing and the ref should have been sending off Player B who had been laying the smack down on all comers. Usually this is easily sorted as the governing body ie the FFA will look at the whole incident and then charge Player B and whoever else done the wrong thing and drop any sanctions on Player A.
The wrongful identity thing can come up in other incidences where player a commits foul warranting yellow and runs away. Player B who has already been booked appears on the scene and the ref then waves the yellow at him then checks his note book and realises player B has been booked already issues the red
The other area you can appeal is when the ref makes a complete **** up as happened in last years New Years Eve game where Billy Mehmet got sent off for a foul that never took place. The ref who I think was Stebre seen something that no one else in the ground or TV camera picked up and waved a red. Perth appealed and Mehmet got off
As far as incidents involving Birraz go I don't think there is much room for maneuvering with incidents such as this that are the subject of opinion. Even in our midst their are two pretty strong views as to what should have occurred and I believe the Appeal process is set up in such a way to negate clubs appealing incidents such as this that are open to interpretation. Otherwise the appeals committee would have a full time job.
In the Jets case why would you fight the call?? 1 week suspension BK can fill in this week. Not the end of the world and no need to start a new war with the FFA over this. Easier to let it go. At the end of the day Birraz should learn from this and it will hopefully be a good positive learning experience for him long term to develop his game
how about jobe's run that was body-checked by daniel bowles around 50mins in?
<5 mins before, heskeytime did the exact same thing jobe did, which was to take a heavy touch to push past the player then work the player into a foul (heskeytime did it to boogard) and boogs got a yellow card. bowles does exactly the same, and it actually is a fair bit worse as it's directly stopping the run from an opposing direction as opposed to boogs running alongside heskeytime, and the ref gives a foul but no yellow.
serious lack of consistency, which highlights how poor the reffing in the hal really is when you compile all these poor choices together across an entire season.
OK
Yeah but didn't Booger get his for persistent fouling, not just for that one off incident?
they were both yellow card worthy imo, as well as bowles's effort on goodwin later (which got a yellow).
OK
Alright then, Jeronimo dive or not?
IMO I reckon he dived. There was Siggy pushing him but not enough for him to fall over.
Middleby Gone
Lawrie Out
massive dive, durante what a legend, telling it like it is. walking off the field, fox asked him to talk us through the 2nd half, durante goes "He's a cheat"
even bozza didn't have the balls to tell it like it is on the post match, and rudan was too preoccupied joining words together to form semi-coherent sentences
amusing tweet they showed on fox - "Did Jeronimo Neumann yell out his own name as he plummeted to the ground?"
jeronimo needs to get a 3 match suspension and sigmund get his card rescinded. what a farce
hmm...Sydney just got a pen, Emerton went down rather dramatically. It was a bit different to the Jeronimo farce in that it was definitely a foul, a lot more contact, I just don't like the accentuation of contact
P.S. Del Piero cheating in the race for the golden boot by taking pens
If you went back through the ages and counted the number of forwards taking a dive around or in the box it would add up to billions...get over it ffs
I hope he likes prison food.......and penis
Not condoneing the disgraceful dive from Jeronimo but how can you back what Durante said on TV??massive dive, durante what a legend, telling it like it is. walking off the field, fox asked him to talk us through the 2nd half, durante goes "He's a cheat"
even bozza didn't have the balls to tell it like it is on the post match, and rudan was too preoccupied joining words together to form semi-coherent sentences
amusing tweet they showed on fox - "Did Jeronimo Neumann yell out his own name as he plummeted to the ground?"
jeronimo needs to get a 3 match suspension and sigmund get his card rescinded. what a farce
Last week the FFA failed to sanction the wanker that is Hutcho for his sarcastic rant after the F3 derby about the refs level of competence. This week the Nix captain calls another player a cheat and the linesman incompetent.
Where the hell is this leading if it not stamped out now???
Referees are all blind incompetent creatures but should be treated with a bit more respect from the players/clubs when they get the decisions go against them. Yeah let the fans whinge bitch and moan but the players and club should be keeping any gripes "in house" and not in the public forum via the media. All this is doing is placing bigger pressure on the officials which will result in more poor performances.
In my opinion Jeronimo should be rubbed out for his disgraceful dive and Durante should be rubbed out for even longer for his disgraceful display of poor sportsmanship. After watching Dura's pathetic behaviour in the pre season match at Weston I am hardly surprised at his current rant. He was a disgrace that night and a disgrace last night to his club and what it purports to represent.
Each team get good calls each team get bad calls. FFS carrying on over bad calls the way he did is a disgrace and not needed in our wonderful game. FFA need to clamp down on this NOW before it gets way out of hand
completely disagree with you member, where is the accountability of its all hush hush? You wont get anything fixed unless people start telling it how it is
Since when is telling as it is gonna fix anything?? Referees have made mistakes and errors since the game started. They will continue to make errors into the future. I don't think you would find anyone on the planet who follows this game who doesn't want to see improved refereeing standards.
What is this issue here isn't the referees errors because they make them all the time!!! The issue here is the over the top carrying on by players bringing the game into disrepute by their comments about the refereeing.
We are not talking about a player saying "Don't agree with that decision" or "We got some tough calls tonight go against us" or similar comments we have 2 players completely crossing the line on sportsmanship and professionalism by their comments on their games officiating and basically indicating some form of bias going against them and implying the referee/officials were cheats.
Sure we benefited from a few good calls against the Gypos but did Ben Williams cheat on our behalf?? No he made shit calls all day long for both teams and FORTUNATELY the big ones went our way at the Gypos expense!!! Does that make him a cheat or biased?? No it just makes him a human who had a bad day at work and got some calls wrong.
tbh i thought it was a foul from sigmund, it's just a shame jeronimo went down so theatrically.
This is it summed up. I don't think alot of people are arguing Sigmund fouled him (but it was doubtful the ref would have called it and given a red card), moreso that Jeronimo dived which forced the ref's hand.
Middleby Gone
Lawrie Out
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