2024 Zone League 1

[magician]

Nice little insult with the hiding and no substance bit but not much coming from a pretender. I'm here giving some fair truths and you cant help but have a cry which is standard from your lot. My 2c is as good or perhaps even better as I'm not locked on to 1 club. I speak for a sporting competition from experience and what I've seen in other comps outside of your one eyed world.

So you know all about Kotara? Why worry about NPL when consolidating NL1 a few seasons. At least they have some nuts for taking it on. Better than being small minded heros refusing to go up. Cooks Hill proves you can, New lambton did it. Only need the vision, integrity and drive. Youd be missing that stuff. Slotting in some ex first graders doesn't really work in the long term does it. lol.
As for substance, you dont have much. My initial points stand up over the long term.
Bye champ. Still here not hiding. Get back on your barby

🤦🏼*♂️

[ForeverRed]

Nice little insult with the hiding and no substance bit but not much coming from a pretender. I'm here giving some fair truths and you cant help but have a cry which is standard from your lot. My 2c is as good or perhaps even better as I'm not locked on to 1 club. I speak for a sporting competition from experience and what I've seen in other comps outside of your one eyed world.

So you know all about Kotara? Why worry about NPL when consolidating NL1 a few seasons. At least they have some nuts for taking it on. Better than being small minded heros refusing to go up. Cooks Hill proves you can, New lambton did it. Only need the vision, integrity and drive. Youd be missing that stuff. Slotting in some ex first graders doesn't really work in the long term does it. lol.
As for substance, you dont have much. My initial points stand up over the long term.
Bye champ. Still here not hiding. Get back on your barby

🤦*♂️🤷*♂️

[Gelato]

Nice little insult with the hiding and no substance bit but not much coming from a pretender. I'm here giving some fair truths and you cant help but have a cry which is standard from your lot. My 2c is as good or perhaps even better as I'm not locked on to 1 club. I speak for a sporting competition from experience and what I've seen in other comps outside of your one eyed world.

So you know all about Kotara? Why worry about NPL when consolidating NL1 a few seasons. At least they have some nuts for taking it on. Better than being small minded heros refusing to go up. Cooks Hill proves you can, New lambton did it. Only need the vision, integrity and drive. Youd be missing that stuff. Slotting in some ex first graders doesn't really work in the long term does it. lol.
As for substance, you dont have much. My initial points stand up over the long term.
Bye champ. Still here not hiding. Get back on your barby

What did I just read 🤦*♂️

[Lofty]

Can someone please check on Jim.

[YerMate]

Here are some points people are forgetting about the promotion from ZL1 to NL1.

1. Comp fees much higher. Not an issue, clubs could make this.
2. ZL1 no TDs required - NL1 TD requires looking at paying 10k most likely for that.
3. Youth setup will be a must for youth development for player growth that will need another TD looking at anywhere from 5k to 10K
4. ZL1 coaches DO NOT need C-Licences so coaching cost will be low if none, NL1 Head coach will need a B-Licence and others C-Licenses. Most likely looking at paying anything from 10 to 20k for coaches.
5. Venue requirements are less in ZL1, we don?t charge for ground entry, NL1 grounds need to be fully fenced perimeter so you have 1 entry point.
6. ZL1 no player wages required. NL1 player wages will be required to be competitive.
7. Just on points above the club expenses jump up at least 60 to 100k on what ZL1 have already.

Just to clarify things Newcastle Suns have no issues with being promoted. However, I have a lot of issues with the points above and the costs that come with them and requirements.

[Killa]

Nice little insult with the hiding and no substance bit but not much coming from a pretender. I'm here giving some fair truths and you cant help but have a cry which is standard from your lot. My 2c is as good or perhaps even better as I'm not locked on to 1 club. I speak for a sporting competition from experience and what I've seen in other comps outside of your one eyed world.

So you know all about Kotara? Why worry about NPL when consolidating NL1 a few seasons. At least they have some nuts for taking it on. Better than being small minded heros refusing to go up. Cooks Hill proves you can, New lambton did it. Only need the vision, integrity and drive. Youd be missing that stuff. Slotting in some ex first graders doesn't really work in the long term does it. lol.
As for substance, you dont have much. My initial points stand up over the long term.
Bye champ. Still here not hiding. Get back on your barby

408884_365759483501779_1466929130_n.jpg

[Taffy]

Are you taking into account NL1 matches against any zone league opposition or the just the ones against ZPL opponents. Because of course that would make a massive difference.

Either way the matches that NL1 do win are usually narrow victories and you haven?t acknowledged the fact that one team is basically having their first hit out of the year while the other has actually started their season. Everyone who has played knows having match fitness is a huge advantage.

Are you taking into account that NL1 teams don't always play their best players? I recall in a thread last year one team playing a couple 15yos in their FFA cup match against a zone team.

[Zonal Marking]

Are you taking into account that NL1 teams don't always play their best players? I recall in a thread last year one team playing a couple 15yos in their FFA cup match against a zone team.

Are you taking into account the zone teams dont always play their best players either? A lot of these fixtures are midweek and the reason some of these guys play at zone level is because they can?t commit to training/games during the week.

[Taffy]

Here are some points people are forgetting about the promotion from ZL1 to NL1.

2. ZL1 no TDs required - NL1 TD requires looking at paying 10k most likely for that.

That's not a requirement

3. Youth setup will be a must for youth development for player growth that will need another TD looking at anywhere from 5k to 10K

No requirement to have youth teams so no need for another TD. I thought this was the TD you were talking about, so who is the first TD?

Not that it matters neither of them are required.

4. ZL1 coaches DO NOT need C-Licences so coaching cost will be low if none, NL1 Head coach will need a B-Licence and others C-Licenses. Most likely looking at paying anything from 10 to 20k for coaches.

Now you are starting to get close but an NL1 head coach and head reserve grade only requires a C-Licence all others only need the senior community certificate. Now if the current coach is happy to be paid a small amount, why would that change? The club could just pay the $1,000 for him to get his C-Licence. Certainly small changed compared to the 10K claimed.

5. Venue requirements are less in ZL1, we don?t charge for ground entry, NL1 grounds need to be fully fenced perimeter so you have 1 entry point.

Not all NL1 clubs currently have only one entry point. While zone doesn't charge for ground entry there is no reason why any promoted zone team must start charging for ground entry it's not a requirement and I've been to a few games over the past couple years where I haven't been charged. Though isn't the Suns field fully enclosed now?

6. ZL1 no player wages required. NL1 player wages will be required to be competitive.

Let's stop pretending players aren't currently paid, but this is also a potential valid issue

Just to clarify things Newcastle Suns have no issues with being promoted. However, I have a lot of issues with the points above and the costs that come with them and requirements.

Some of the points are valid but some aren't even close, no issue with not liking being promoted but let us at least ensure our reasons are based in fact.

[Taffy]

Are you taking into account the zone teams dont always play their best players either? A lot of these fixtures are midweek and the reason some of these guys play at zone level is because they can?t commit to training/games during the week.

Regardless the actual data shows that it isn't a walloping not to mention cup games are different to a league.

[ZLWB]

Heard Dudley sent an email out that they are strongly against Pro/Rel ?

If true haahhaha - what an embarrassing club.

Why is that embarrassing?
If they don?t want to meet the extra requirements of NL1 why should they?

[jessepinkman]

Why is that embarrassing?
If they don?t want to meet the extra requirements of NL1 why should they?

bit of a double edged sword.

An open pyramid in newy is best for development here. Clubs can start a movement and go as far as their ambition allows them to.

Clubs that actively dont have the ambition are working against that system.

Dudley has the right to exist at the highest level of competition they want to, but football also has the right to progress. Dudleys ambitions suit only themselves, not the betterment of the game, but then again, why do they have to serve the wider game?

Depends on how you see newy football. Is it a competition for a bunch of also rans who would play amateurs in a big city to chest beat at the pub? Or is it a vehicle for our local kids to go on to bigger and better things?

[jessepinkman]

Regardless the actual data shows that it isn't a walloping not to mention cup games are different to a league.

There's always a handful of players in ZPL that would be top players in NL1. Some would start in the NPL.

But most of the rest of the players in ZPL wouldnt even make ressies in NL1. Usually its those ones that chirp the most about beating a rotated squad from the league above.

Same thing happens when an NL1 team beats or comes close to an NPL team. Cycle of football. Happens in every cup comp everywhere in the world. You cant really compare two clubs from a cup competition. 90 mins in the first few rounds for some clubs is an extra training match in a comp they wont win.

For others, a win in rd 1 against an opponent above is enough for them to get RSI in their knuckles on this forum about for years. Horses for courses.

[2ndclasscitizen]

DRUFC Response to Promotion and Relegation _1223.PDF

The full text of the Dudley letter in question (I've attached it, no idea if it worked):

On behalf of our club, we would like to formally submit our response to the aforementioned item and strongly oppose this notion. We cannot express our disappointment and opposition of this enough, and feel that it will be a great detriment to not only our club but the competition in general.

We have deep concerns about the viability of our club if we are forced to be promoted (there is a strong chance of this as we have been club champions the last 2 seasons) and the implications associated with being promoted. The committee, coaching staff and players are all strongly opposed to this, and we feel that if the Joint Board proceed with this idea, then it will bring the integrity of the competition into question due to the fact that teams could field weakened teams to ensure they don?t finish 1 st . Zone league football has always provided a robust competition that is very competitive and that should never be compromised.

As a club, we deeply value the culture and benefits of having 3 grades. Whilst we acknowledge the 1 st grade has always been the primary focus for our club we have never underestimated the importance of our 3 rd grade to our club. We see our 3 rd grade team as a place for our ex 1 st grade players to still be associated with the club but also an important pathway for our younger players (many who have watched from the sidelines as juniors) to gain valuable experience in men?s football. Furthermore, a significant amount of our sponsorship is generated from our 3 rd grade players who want to give back to the club. It is these players who will leave the club and not only take valuable experience, mentorship and guidance they will also take their sponsorship and that is something that will have a detrimental on the viability of our club. The culture of our club is built around our 3 rd grade teams and they are often the players who set up the ground, man the BBQ /
Canteen, and are there for the whole day supporting the teams and packing up at the end of the day.

We have analysed our income over the past couple of years and conservatively estimate a drop in excess of 30% should we be promoted and lose the current structure of our club.

Importantly, our current 3rd grade squad consists of;
? 2 x life members,
? 1 x ex president,
? 1 x ex vice-president,
? 1 x current treasurer,
? 4 x current committee members,
? 2 x major sponsors and
? 1 x current canteen manager.

Hopefully this reiterated the importance of 3 rd grade to the culture and sustainability to our club.

In finishing, we would like to reiterate our stance on this item and feel that it is imperative that you listen to your members and reconsider the decisions made by the Joint Board.

Interestingly there is no mention of the requirements that others have brought up in here as reasons why a ZL club may not want to get promoted (i.e. ground requirements, coaching quals, juniors etc). Instead their entire argument is centered around the loss of 3rd grade should they get promoted. The question is why these 3rd graders who volunteer, are on the committee and are supposedly the lifeblood of the club would not only walk away from the club purely because they have to play All Age or O35s instead of ZL 3rds, but would also take their sponsorship dollars with them. The fact that 30% of the club's sponsorship is tied up to a group like that should be quite concerning as well.

[Taffy]

Interestingly there is no mention of the requirements that others have brought up in here as reasons why a ZL club may not want to get promoted (i.e. ground requirements, coaching quals, juniors etc).

Clearly because it is not any issue to them (and I would argue they meet those requirements anyway) it is all self interest by the people who wrote the letter. (Wonder how many of the players they actually asked or was it just the 12 3rd grade players?). They say 3rd grade is also for the young players coming in but 12 of the players are all long term committee members, not much room to blood in last year's U18s side who have been watching from the sideline.

They also clearly don't understand how promotion works because it's based on who finishes 1st in 1st grade nothing to do with club championship, over the past two years, Suns would've been promoted not Dudley. Not sure what Dudley are worried about, they haven't finished top in 1st grade for at least 12 years.

Of course there is another potential way around it. Should Dudley win it and get promoted they could always look to enter a Zone League 3 side, they would only need another team for firsts and reserves and all these people that are walking away will not only still be able to play Zone but also they will have 16 more spots to blood in all these young juniors.

[magician]

What happens if Newcastle olympic win zone league and then NL 1
Do we have 2 Newcastle Olympics in NPL.

[Hunter403]

What happens if Newcastle olympic win zone league and then NL 1
Do we have 2 Newcastle Olympics in NPL.

the rules do not permit this

[straightred88]

DRUFC Response to Promotion and Relegation _1223.PDF


The full text of the Dudley letter in question (I've attached it, no idea if it worked):



Interestingly there is no mention of the requirements that others have brought up in here as reasons why a ZL club may not want to get promoted (i.e. ground requirements, coaching quals, juniors etc). Instead their entire argument is centered around the loss of 3rd grade should they get promoted. The question is why these 3rd graders who volunteer, are on the committee and are supposedly the lifeblood of the club would not only walk away from the club purely because they have to play All Age or O35s instead of ZL 3rds, but would also take their sponsorship dollars with them. The fact that 30% of the club's sponsorship is tied up to a group like that should be quite concerning as well.

WOW LOL what a letter

[straightred88]

the rules do not permit this

For Northern maybe but NF like to bend and not follow their own rules

[Chips]

DRUFC Response to Promotion and Relegation _1223.PDF



Interestingly there is no mention of the requirements that others have brought up in here as reasons why a ZL club may not want to get promoted (i.e. ground requirements, coaching quals, juniors etc). Instead their entire argument is centered around the loss of 3rd grade should they get promoted. The question is why these 3rd graders who volunteer, are on the committee and are supposedly the lifeblood of the club would not only walk away from the club purely because they have to play All Age or O35s instead of ZL 3rds, but would also take their sponsorship dollars with them. The fact that 30% of the club's sponsorship is tied up to a group like that should be quite concerning as well.

I?ll make it pretty simple why 30% of sponsorship would go if you lost 3rd grade.
If a business gives a club $9000 as a sponsorship this year for 3 teams. Next year when there is 2 teams in the club what will the business give the club. The answer $6000. So the club loses 30% of sponsorship.

No business that is run by anyone with half a brain is giving a club the same money for 30% less exposure, participants it make no sense.

If your argument is the sponsorship is more valuable between ZL1 and NL1 you?re taking the piss. The local pub and club that sponsors team from NPL to ZL3 pays an amount on how many teams the club has and the return they will get. So if there is 30% less club the sponsorship will drop

Hope that makes it easy to understand and it won?t be just Dudley it will be all clubs in the same boat