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Thread: attn: finance nerdz

  1. #21
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    Never base your choice of card on its rewards system....go by whether there is an annual fee, ongoing fees, late payment fees, overdraft fees, ATM fees et al as well as the interest free days available.

    I had an NAB card - no fees whatsoever and I pay in full each month. Every dollar spent using the card gets a Flybuys point, however despite that I can never see how people had enough for flights (as a matter of fact - "Flybuys" don't offer flights anymore !!)

    It's nice to pick up a bonus each year (a new phone, a drill, tix to Seaworld, a hotel room for a night), but that is all they are a bonus.

    I just gave that card the flick and took up a new one elsewhere - no rewards system but a better value card.

    The banks play games with you and push your buttons - I always refer to the story of John Dwyer, the guy that came up with the Greater "Free Holiday" campaign. At the time banks were offering 1% honeymoon rates for 12 months on loans and everyone was doing the same thing. He said that more people went to Maccas rather than other fast food chains because of the "Happy Meal" - price didn't matter as much as the toy.

    John Dwyer told the Greater execs that by giving customers their free holiday they would have their "Happy Meal" - the lemmings flocked not realising that they could have paid for 2-3 holidays by saving their 1% at another bank for a year !

    And that is the trick with rewards schemes - it takes your eye off the true cost of the card.

  2. #22
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    how can something be "better value" than "no fees whatsoever"?

  3. #23
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Another thing regarding the "free flights" is that they arent in fact "free" (international anyway).
    You still have to pay the taxes (or use equivalent points to cover the cost).
    My last trip to London was on points (about 130,000 return) but still cost about $600 (return) in taxes (going through Singapore and into Heathrow are about the 2 most expensive airports in the world apparently). Other airports have been cheaper (Narita/LAX) but they still cost. I'm lucky in that my business racks up a couple hundred thousand points per year so flights are a bonus (i considered then "super cheap" rather than "free").
    For your everyday Joe credit card I would never sign up for a points scheme.The card fee, higher interest and taxes on flights mean you wont be any better off at all.
    Banks dont give anything away, ever. remember that when dealing with them.

  4. #24
    aka WLG pv4's Avatar
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    So I thought I'd do a time-has-passed update on all of this (particularly because Toad asked me to back in the day).

    We ended up choosing to go with the Woolworths Money CC, the one that gets 1 point for every dollar spent & has an $89 yearly fee (I honestly couldn't tell you the interest/charges, because we pay everything on or before time and haven't been charged any of that).

    We have used it for everything that doesn't have a surchage for Credit Card. Our bills, shopping, etc. The only time I can honestly say I've actually gone out of my way to use the card instead of otherwise is some bills I go to the Post Office to pay with the card as opposed to using Bpay (because Bpay is either unavailable on this card or i haven't bothered to find it). It's been really easy to keep up with our spendings, and we haven't missed a payment or been charged even the single dollar of interest because we've been on top of it every month. The only charge we have experienced that we wouldn't have otherwise (if we didn't have the card) is the $89 annual fee.

    Over the last year we've as I've said just been paying most things without surchages with the card. Plus between QANTAS & Woolies, we've taken advantage of so many offers for bonus points for things we would have done anyway (like 500 bonus points for buying $30 of pet stuff at woolies, and stuff like that). We also got an offer yesterday for 2000 bonus points to spend $30 or more with Woolies Online (with free delivery for first order). Plus we're conveniantely with Optus for our mobiles, who give us points for fun. Just stuff like that, which doesn't (or hasn't yet) see us buying things we wouldn't have anyway, or at a stupidly higher price.

    Since we've gotten the card a year ago, we have racked up 102,000 points.

    I did some quick calcs. It costs 128,000 points for a return flight Syd-Paris. You then have to add on $703 for taxes, fees & carrier charges (according to the frequent flyer site). A quick webjet google tells me a return flight is $2100 for Syd-Paris. That's a $1397 difference. If I tallied up the years of $89 annual charges, it'd take 15 years to reach that dollar difference between the points-based-flights & the points-less-flights.

    There's no humanly way possible we'll rack up 100k points again in a year - there were a few offers like our mobile plans (which we were getting anyway) which are locked in for a couple of years that gave us a big amount of points for re-signing up, and random things like that. I wouldn't be surprised to see us rack up "as little" as 50k points per year from hereonin. So by my quick calcs, it'll take us this year + two more to get enough points to have 2 return Syd-Paris flights (we don't necessarily want to go to Paris, it's just the easiest eg I had). So $1400 in fees/carrier-charges, we'll say 5 annual fees of $89 (so $445) = $1845 total spent to get 2 return flights Syd-Paris. As opposed to $2100pp, or $4200total, for points-less flights.

    I don't doubt there is or may be errors in all my above workings. And I don't doubt things could change, or flights could be cheaper, etc. But the way I'm looking at it, we got a CC so we could have the "security" of being able to afford unexpected large bills without worry (and worry about it later), which we haven't needed to do yet but the security we were after is there for us now. But getting potentially 2 flights, for the "price" of 1 flight, to some insane destination, just by living our life basically as normal as we have been or will - I'm not unhappy with this decision one bit.
    OK

  5. #25
    aka WLG pv4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pv4 View Post
    (because Bpay is either unavailable on this card or i haven't bothered to find it).
    Just had a look - the option to Bpay which was previously not there is now there. So I don't ever go out of my way for this card now..
    OK

  6. #26
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    Reward schemes are a scam. You can save more by simply shopping around.

  7. #27
    aka WLG pv4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dunster View Post
    Reward schemes are a scam. You can save more by simply shopping around.
    Because I'm interested, in invested, in it - what do you base your opinion from?

    Using my hypothetical Syd-Paris trip, where do I find return flights for two for $1800 or less?

    In regards to shopping for cheaper prices - I stress the importance that I haven't, and don't want to, change my currently lifestyle. I don't doubt I could save money on fruit/veggies by going to a market or something as opposed to a woolies, but my current lifestyle doesn't suit doing that every week. So if I'm getting groceries every week at woolies/aldi/coles/whatever, and that's the exact way I live my life, how is the scam coming into play?

    And things like paying bills - land rates, water bills, internet, utilities, etc. How does shopping around save me more money that I wouldn't save with the "scam-card", and where does the "scam" come into play?
    OK

  8. #28
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    Thanks for the update pv! very interesting.
    sounds like you are doing well from it

  9. #29
    aka WLG pv4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    Thanks for the update pv! very interesting.
    sounds like you are doing well from it
    Once I actually attempt to use the points one day, we'll see how well I'm really doing with it

    But yeah, my outlook on it all is just as written and it seems like a really good decision to me. I'm getting mega discounts on future flights for just living my life as normal as I would have without the card.
    OK

  10. #30
    aka WLG pv4's Avatar
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    Did any of you other guys that were looking into similar end up making decisions?

    Boz have you used your europe - amount of points yet?
    OK

  11. #31
    Senior Member militiamon's Avatar
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    Lol I don't work for travel world mate.

    However I will point out that flights Syd - Paris can be had for $1800pp and less depending on circumstances (student, time of year, etc.). I've gone to Yoorop on $1100 return (student though). Your maths still comes out on top though.

    Only point I will make is that it only makes sense if you were already planning on going to Europe or wherever. You talk about not spending outside of your normal spending habits to get the points in the first place, but this also applies to how you use them.

    In the end it is basically a discount on your holiday, in the order of maybe 10 - 20%. Other than that, go nuts, but remember that the real finance nerds would not take a holiday in the first place :gentwhereisthefxxxinggentemoticonquotient:


    Signed,
    Someone who is terrible with money
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDyl
    You're funnier on the internet than you are in person.
    Quote Originally Posted by q-money View Post
    the NF law...the longer the thread stays open, the probablity that the thread becomes about joel griffiths approaches 1

  12. #32
    aka WLG pv4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by militiamon View Post
    Lol I don't work for travel world mate.



    ops:
    :brr:

    Love your work 'Mon.

    Back to the pool thread!
    Last edited by pv4; 12-02-2014 at 08:03 AM.
    OK

  13. #33
    Senior Member militiamon's Avatar
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    I really only made the post for that one line

    Glad you picked up on it, rest was late-night garbage.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDyl
    You're funnier on the internet than you are in person.
    Quote Originally Posted by q-money View Post
    the NF law...the longer the thread stays open, the probablity that the thread becomes about joel griffiths approaches 1

  14. #34
    Hamma's best mate Superdylan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by militiamon View Post
    Lol I don't work for travel world mate.
    Quote Originally Posted by pv4 View Post



    ops:
    :brr:

    Love your work 'Mon.

    Back to the pool thread!
    Ffs

    Stealing my lines are we petec?
    Quote Originally Posted by benfathers45 View Post
    Mangoes? You should try eating it first before you hate it. I'm sure after you have tasted it, you will love it.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pv4 View Post
    Because I'm interested, in invested, in it - what do you base your opinion from?

    Using my hypothetical Syd-Paris trip, where do I find return flights for two for $1800 or less?

    In regards to shopping for cheaper prices - I stress the importance that I haven't, and don't want to, change my currently lifestyle. I don't doubt I could save money on fruit/veggies by going to a market or something as opposed to a woolies, but my current lifestyle doesn't suit doing that every week. So if I'm getting groceries every week at woolies/aldi/coles/whatever, and that's the exact way I live my life, how is the scam coming into play?

    And things like paying bills - land rates, water bills, internet, utilities, etc. How does shopping around save me more money that I wouldn't save with the "scam-card", and where does the "scam" come into play?
    My mistake. I thought Hutcho's missus paid all the bills.

  16. #36
    Senior Member militiamon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superdylan View Post
    Ffs

    Stealing my lines are we petec?
    Haha, great sig SD, well played.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDyl
    You're funnier on the internet than you are in person.
    Quote Originally Posted by q-money View Post
    the NF law...the longer the thread stays open, the probablity that the thread becomes about joel griffiths approaches 1

  17. #37
    aka WLG pv4's Avatar
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    Attn: finance nerdz

    Who has done some wonderful&legal tricks & loopholes with their super, and what should us chums be doing similar?
    OK

  18. #38
    Senior Member WolfMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pv4 View Post
    Attn: finance nerdz

    Who has done some wonderful&legal tricks & loopholes with their super, and what should us chums be doing similar?
    I'm not an expert by any stretch, but I recently found out you can use a portion of super as a deposit for investment property/ies.

    Any dividends after sale must go into your self managed super fund, but seems pretty decent. Yet to speak to a financial advisor about the pros/cons, but just letting you know it is an option

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pv4 View Post
    Attn: finance nerdz

    Who has done some wonderful&legal tricks & loopholes with their super, and what should us chums be doing similar?
    Invest in tattoo removal technology - it will be a huge industry when everyone realises their tatts are the 21st century version of the 80's mullet.

  20. #40
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    and child care centres. Boom industry scheduled to blow even further open as parents (voters) demand more middle class income. No pollie would dare say no, and every time the govt payment goes up, you raise your rates without having to pay more for pesky shit like wages and stuff.

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