2013 Zone League 2 Thread

[ramsbelong@jesmondpark]

I think it's 1 up, 1 down, unless there is another volunteer to go down (Merewether volunteering last year facilitated R/T and Belmont going up). By Bellbird withdrawing I think they may be made to re-enter in ZL3, should they re-apply.

Now depending on your club you may have different views on the following......

Personally, I think with Tenambit only winning, at present 1 game (hurts to write this) all season and trailing Merewether significantly - they should go down. The fact that another team didn't compete seems irrelevant to me. Perhaps, after 2 years of wooden spoon, it might actually be better for the kids there to compete at a lower level and win some games, get some confidence. Sure it's somewhat of a free-fall but it may be required and best for them. Maybe the usual Tenambit poster/s can offer an opinion... I'm in no way having a dig and am just offering a neutral opinion, actually doesn't faze me one bit which division they are in for 2014...

I'm actually a fan of more movement between the divisions, believing it is too difficult to gain promotion as their always seems to be one team having a gun year. Likewise, you can be quite bad and stay because in all likelihood, some other club will be bloody awful each year.

I'd actually like to see major and minor premiers replacing the bottom 2 in the above division. Some might say the above is reflective of my own clubs situation but its not, it's my honest opinion regardless of this.

If you look through the divisions it's hard to argue with the fact that most divisions have 2 teams deserving promotion and 2 that are performing fairly ordinarily.

Interested in anyone's thoughts.....

[Premy]

I think it's 1 up, 1 down, unless there is another volunteer to go down (Merewether volunteering last year facilitated R/T and Belmont going up). By Bellbird withdrawing I think they may be made to re-enter in ZL3, should they re-apply.

Now depending on your club you may have different views on the following......

Personally, I think with Tenambit only winning, at present 1 game (hurts to write this) all season and trailing Merewether significantly - they should go down. The fact that another team didn't compete seems irrelevant to me. Perhaps, after 2 years of wooden spoon, it might actually be better for the kids there to compete at a lower level and win some games, get some confidence. Sure it's somewhat of a free-fall but it may be required and best for them. Maybe the usual Tenambit poster/s can offer an opinion... I'm in no way having a dig and am just offering a neutral opinion, actually doesn't faze me one bit which division they are in for 2014...

I'm actually a fan of more movement between the divisions, believing it is too difficult to gain promotion as their always seems to be one team having a gun year. Likewise, you can be quite bad and stay because in all likelihood, some other club will be bloody awful each year.

I'd actually like to see major and minor premiers replacing the bottom 2 in the above division. Some might say the above is reflective of my own clubs situation but its not, it's my honest opinion regardless of this.

If you look through the divisions it's hard to argue with the fact that most divisions have 2 teams deserving promotion and 2 that are performing fairly ordinarily.

Interested in anyone's thoughts.....

How would Jesmond go feilding a 3rd grade if they were to be promoted

[true waterboy]

Personally, I think with Tenambit only winning, at present 1 game (hurts to write this) all season and trailing Merewether significantly - they should go down. The fact that another team didn't compete seems irrelevant to me. Perhaps, after 2 years of wooden spoon, it might actually be better for the kids there to compete at a lower level and win some games, get some confidence. Sure it's somewhat of a free-fall but it may be required and best for them. Maybe the usual Tenambit poster/s can offer an opinion... I'm in no way having a dig and am just offering a neutral opinion, actually doesn't faze me one bit which division they are in for 2014...

I'm actually a fan of more movement between the divisions, believing it is too difficult to gain promotion as their always seems to be one team having a gun year. Likewise, you can be quite bad and stay because in all likelihood, some other club will be bloody awful each year.

I'd actually like to see major and minor premiers replacing the bottom 2 in the above division. Some might say the above is reflective of my own clubs situation but its not, it's my honest opinion regardless of this.

If you look through the divisions it's hard to argue with the fact that most divisions have 2 teams deserving promotion and 2 that are performing fairly ordinarily.

Interested in anyone's thoughts.....

I agree with this. Sad to say tenambit have struggled to perform this year and with a number of clubs in zl3 pushing for promotion id like to see them given a chance. I dont know much about that league and havent followed the results, but we have played stockton before and I beleive they would be very competitive in this grade.

I also agree with allowing 2 teams to be promoted. If multiple teams are either notably performing or struggling i think 2 teams should be promoted/relegated. I also beleive that major premiers should be the second team promoted when the option occurs not the second place as with belmont last year, as i believe a team that won nothing should be ahead of a team filling the trophy cabinet.

From the little bit ive read in zl1 it sounds like a number of clubs are notably struggling this year. it would be great to see a reshuffle of the grades as there are a number of clubs in this division that would be competitive if promoted.

[ramsbelong@jesmondpark]

100% not trying to deflect the question but its honestly not been spoken about in any sort of detail within the club (apart from a couple of old timers and goalkeeping strikers dreaming of an am kickoff). When we were doing well we didn't want to get ahead of ourselves and since we dropped points it's now more and more likely to be Musswellbrook unless they crash badly so the discussion within is now irrelevant.

To answer the question; We registered 30 easily this year with others leaving and not signing because of numbers so think could get to the 40 or so required. If that's the number generally accepted as being required?

If we achieved the minor premiership I'd 100% want to go up. (Personal opinion with some slightly selfish motives here and not necessarily the stance of our club). I realise it may be difficult for Mussy due to proximity and they struggle to field 2 teams, let alone 3, especially for away games. If Mussy don't take it and its offered to us, my thoughts are mixed and maybe not the same as the club, so as I'm representing the club on here ill keep that to myself for now.

[Neally]

To answer the question; We registered 30 easily this year with others leaving and not signing because of numbers so think could get to the 40 or so required. If that's the number generally accepted as being required?

From my experience starting a season with less than 45 would be suicide and would see many players playing multiple games a day...once you factor in injuries, work and other shit excuses when a team isn't performing the best, 40 can quickly become a lot less!

[pv4]

I remember a couple of years ago, raymond terrace and weston swifts were the two clear strugglers in id2s. I was honestly surprised that weston came last - that's how bad terrace were. I always thought 2 should have been relegated that season as they were two clear strugglers.

I've thought this for years, and therefore it has nothing to do with bias - I think promotion/relegation should be based off club championship. Whether firsts needs a little more weight in points than it currently has, I don't know. But I look at terrace in id1 and I hear their firsts are strong but their other grades aren't, and they lack depth. I imagine if toronto in id3 somehow managed to come first, they have no depth in reserves to come up. I see terrace deserving relegation from id2 two years ago, to now walking id1s, and I imagine when "all their guns go to nbn" like is continually reported (or used to be) they'll struggle again. Morisset are another example of a gun 1 side turned bad again nowadays. I'd rather the overall best clubs as a whole, rather than the best recruiting first grades, be promoted. It promotes having a strong overall club, which by the sounds of it is exactly what northern demand for their "premier competitions". Another example I just thought of, and I have bias FOR them so it somewhat pains me to say it, but mussy this year have a good first grade and a relatively mediocre reserves. Now if they go up, you could hazard a guess that their third grade will be equally mediocre. The club will struggle for depth over 3 grades, and in the case of mussy will just be hugely reliant on home games and hope to scrape away games. I actually know the details of players in/out for them, and potentially they could do ok in id1s, but if I didn't know the details I'd be hugely hesotant on them going up.

In summary - let's stop focusing on one grade. ID comps are about clubs - let's make reserves actually mean something, and therefore make the comps and clubs stronger

[pv4]

Also, widcats have 30 registered for two grades and possibly one or two dual rego'd from our all age. 15 per team is a minimum imo - so 45 for three grades sounds right

[true waterboy]

I agree with most comments but when looking at morriset they also had a gun ressies side when they were promoted. beat us for the minor premiership by 3 points and smashed us like 4-1 in the gf from memory.
Their biggest problem seemed to be when the federation promoted them straight to zpl and then they lost a heap of players half way through the year.

[bombers_away]

Just reading some of the comments on the forum regarding the Bellbird situation and what we intend to do next year...

This year we fielded a team in All Age C. We have 21 registered players but have not had more than 14 at a game this season. Justifies the decision we made to withdraw from ID's for 2013.

The players are mostly keen to get back to the ID comp. Whether that happens in 2014 or beyond - we are not able to say at this point and depends on a number of things. But if it does happen, it is my understanding we will be heading back through ID3. It would not be fair on the teams who battled it out in ID3 (and ID2) for a team to walk back in after having a season off and taking the position of a team who done the hard yards in 2013.

[Premy]

Just reading some of the comments on the forum regarding the Bellbird situation and what we intend to do next year...

This year we fielded a team in All Age C. We have 21 registered players but have not had more than 14 at a game this season. Justifies the decision we made to withdraw from ID's for 2013.

The players are mostly keen to get back to the ID comp. Whether that happens in 2014 or beyond - we are not able to say at this point and depends on a number of things. But if it does happen, it is my understanding we will be heading back through ID3. It would not be fair on the teams who battled it out in ID3 (and ID2) for a team to walk back in after having a season off and taking the position of a team who done the hard yards in 2013.

Good to hear seems your going the right way about it

[roundballsarebetter]

I remember a couple of years ago, raymond terrace and weston swifts were the two clear strugglers in id2s. I was honestly surprised that weston came last - that's how bad terrace were. I always thought 2 should have been relegated that season as they were two clear strugglers.

I've thought this for years, and therefore it has nothing to do with bias - I think promotion/relegation should be based off club championship. Whether firsts needs a little more weight in points than it currently has, I don't know. But I look at terrace in id1 and I hear their firsts are strong but their other grades aren't, and they lack depth. I imagine if toronto in id3 somehow managed to come first, they have no depth in reserves to come up. I see terrace deserving relegation from id2 two years ago, to now walking id1s, and I imagine when "all their guns go to nbn" like is continually reported (or used to be) they'll struggle again. Morisset are another example of a gun 1 side turned bad again nowadays. I'd rather the overall best clubs as a whole, rather than the best recruiting first grades, be promoted. It promotes having a strong overall club, which by the sounds of it is exactly what northern demand for their "premier competitions". Another example I just thought of, and I have bias FOR them so it somewhat pains me to say it, but mussy this year have a good first grade and a relatively mediocre reserves. Now if they go up, you could hazard a guess that their third grade will be equally mediocre. The club will struggle for depth over 3 grades, and in the case of mussy will just be hugely reliant on home games and hope to scrape away games. I actually know the details of players in/out for them, and potentially they could do ok in id1s, but if I didn't know the details I'd be hugely hesotant on them going up.

In summary - let's stop focusing on one grade. ID comps are about clubs - let's make reserves actually mean something, and therefore make the comps and clubs stronger

Does someone from muswellbrook want to give us an Idea as to what there intentions are ( If they finish 1st). I seem to remember that they dropped down from the old id 1's not due to 1st grade performances but due to struggling with club numbers , Im not 100% sure on that , I seem to remember them always goin well in 1sts but being very short on in the lower grades when they had a 3 team club??

[Premy]

From the little bit ive read in zl1 it sounds like a number of clubs are notably struggling this year. it would be great to see a reshuffle of the grades as there are a number of clubs in this division that would be competitive if promoted.

In all fairness there is probably only 4 clubs in ZL1 that cofortably fill 3 grades Wallsend, Suburb, Nelson Bay & Kotara. As to Terrace lower grades they have improved since the start of the season and are in a much better position now and I expect them to be much better next year. On to Morriset again their lower grades are quite strong with their reserves doing quite well with a few additions in 1st grade they would be right up there and they are not as bad as what most people think their are no easy games but it just hasn't been their year.

[ramsbelong@jesmondpark]

As I re-read my post re: 40 players I thought that was a bit light on and you blokes have confirmed this. 45 sounds ideal, 40 for 3 grades actually works out lighter on than 30 for 2 I've realised, with 7 spare rather than 8.

As much as I hate going to play at Bellbird, I do wish that club the best and hope they can get back to zone football. It seems to have been a big effort from those within to clean up their reputation on the park and I found them more than decent to deal with last year and pre season this year before their decision. The post above seems to confirm my thoughts on how decent they now are.

I made the initial point of 2 up, 2 down which most seem to agree with so they're obviously my views but not sure I can agree on the club championship being used as a basis. If that's the case we would have gone up in 2013 as were club champions last year. We would have to be going close again this year I would think (no inclination to do the math).

After watching our reggies get towelled up on grand final day, then first grade between Westlakes and the Terrace, it was almost embarrassing to accept the club championship award when our firsts came 5th or 6th. Sure we were in semi final contention until the last day but to have gone up in those circumstances would have been grossly unfair on others, whether that be Westlakes or Belmont.

To my way of thinking and under the basis of my initial post, Westlakes should have gone up last year with Raymond Terrace. That would have been fair and I'm not sure there would have been too many complaints. This backs up my other point - it's so hard to win things and after Westlakes didn't get the promotion they (from all reports) desired, they now find themselves in a situation 12 months later where they are relying on the results of other fixtures to even make the semi finals.

Just because they havn't gone as well this year in ZL2 doesn't mean they wouldn't have been competitive in ZL1. Perhaps they lost a few players as a result of the disappointment and the other thing is, promotion often attracts players to come and have a look. They may have strengthened. I can say categorically that Jesmond would be stronger this year if were in a higher division as I know a few players that would be wearing our shirt now that aren't. It would be silly to think that's not the case for other clubs too.

The association have it as wooden spooner down and highest places offered the promotion until there is an acceptance. Nobody can argue with that as everyone knows how it is. Let's just hope that one day it's 2 and 2 - but in a way that is clearly outlined to avoid arguments. Ie minor premiers and then grand final winners. If they're the same then it obviously goes to the team who won the most corners during the year.....

[The Dreaded Keeper]

Muswellbrook reserves........currently on a 5 match winning streak, which included knocking off the first placed side.


Just saying.............

[RANGER09]

[QUOTE=pv4;47090]I remember a couple of years ago, raymond terrace and weston swifts were the two clear strugglers in id2s. I was honestly surprised that weston came last - that's how bad terrace were. I always thought 2 should have been relegated that season as they were two clear strugglers.

Yeah wasnt the best year for us, very young side but most games were competitive and close, half the team playing 2 grades, but as to how bad we were, second round vs Wildcats on their home turf. Westlakes 0 Terrace 1

[pv4]

Yeah wasnt the best year for us, very young side but most games were competitive and close, half the team playing 2 grades, but as to how bad we were, second round vs Wildcats on their home turf. Westlakes 0 Terrace 1

I remember being injured for that game and watching from the sidelines. Man that was a depressing day. By that time of the year, our coach was fully fixated on reserve grade and let first grade just handle themselves.

But like I said - unfortunately you guys & Weston stood out as being the worst teams to every team I spoke to. Obviously things have changed, I was just using it to highlight my point(s) above.

[RANGER09]

Just part of being in ID football, no club is immune from player / coaching changes year in and out, have to take the good with the bad unfortunately.

[pv4]

Just part of being in ID football, no club is immune from player / coaching changes year in and out, have to take the good with the bad unfortunately.

Agreed. And hence why I reckon if a club champ system was implemented, it would promote overall better clubs, rather than just a well-recruited starting XI first graders (who may leave and the club would be stranded).

Like I said originally - maybe the current point scoring system for club champs needs to be changed so firsts is a little more meaningful than it currently is. I don't know, I don't know the system well enough. But I think if we make reserve grade count, we wouldn't have scenarios like Toronto ID3s have where there's 7 players to one of the last games, and overall every single game (reserves or firsts) would be more meaningful and more competitive, and everyone would be contributing. I just feel like clubs as a whole would improve more, and hence make the overall comps better.

[pv4]

Muswellbrook reserves........currently on a 5 match winning streak, which included knocking off the first placed side.


Just saying.............

That month off did you guys the world of good!

We're just trying to use examples at certain peoples/clubs expense - there's no malice behind any of the discussion I don't think.

[The Dreaded Keeper]

The month off did the football good. Me? Well I started the month of at 84kgs. I ended it at 90kgs. I know what you're thinking, but the answer is no-I'm not "bulking".