The A-League Expansion Thread

[hawk]

Will a 2nd div increase Tv $$$? 2 extra teams in aleague probs will.

At some point we will have a tier 2 comp.

I think a few of those that are ready for a hit at the 2nd level and thus be pushing for a tilt in the HAL will need to re-brand a little as well as commit to criteria.

[plague]

1. The Knights own their stadium - they only need small crowds of about 4000+ to be solvent.
2. Licence fees shouldn't apply imo, or if they have to, then it should be vastly reduced for a second tier competition. Say $500K.
3. Because these clubs have done it before, most have the know how and its sink or swim. If a club can't do it (which happens from time to time around the world) then another will step into their place - ala Portsmouth and Blackpool and Rangers and et al
4. The figures were based upon what I was hearing about the new deal. If its say $2.5M now, that a lot of wages covered straight up. Most of the clubs have their own stadiums so each how game becomes a profit making exercise in terms of gate and food even with small crowds. Corporate sponsorship would easily reach $500K-$1M conservatively, when they have national exposure and FTA+ Fox TV exposure. The reality is that regional clubs will struggle, but that's the challenge for us. We have to be better run than clubs from bigger centres - reality of life.

ok lets do this one at a time.
1. But is it A-League standard? Lighting/seating etc? Id actually have no problem if 2nd div clubs had lower compliance standards but once they hit the big time they need to play at an A-League level stadium (hence getting a big lease etc). So they are gonna need way more than 4000 crowds to be solvent. You think they can get the numbers? How do they get them? Because everyone wants them to 'stay the same' yet as they are they are getting 4000.
2. I don't think licence fees should apply either once promo/relegation starts, but the simple fact is the existing clubs have paid big big money to join in and then go on to lose even more. To then have new clubs turn up and get an easier ride in doesnt sit well with me either. The 2nd div doesnt get off the ground without the approval of the existing clubs, so they are gonna want to see these new clubs pony up as well.
3. So you want the clubs to operate as is, then if they make the big time 'then' they have to be compliant? What if they can't? You want court cases and appeals? Look at the farce the local comp has agreeing on a compliance standard. Im saying get a rock solid compliance standard from day one (which means these smaller clubs WILL have to finance facilities etc) well before they see the money come back in. and if then never go up how are they ever going to pay the bills?
4. OK, heres my big big problem with a lot of you guys. You are throwing figures around which are such pie in the sky its not funny.
In Spain, the 2nd div gets 10% of the TV money to spread between their teams.
In England the Championship teams get approx 5% of the TV money compared to the EPL sides. Even using the best case scenario that the 2nd div even gets a TV deal you are looking at somewhere between $125k - $250k. Even double that and its still bugger all. and you guys are always mentioning South Melbourne and Melb Knights, but what about team 10-12 on that list? Who are they and why would the want to be part of it. Remember when the first A-League TV deal was being bandied around SBS offered to show the games but the FFA had to pay the production costs. Yes it was going to COST the FFA money to run the games, let alone actually derive any income from them.
yet you think the TV networks are gonna say "oh sweet, heres a bunch of money and airtime for Melbourne Knights v North Queensland Fury".


So heres what im reading you guys think is plausible.
Clubs join the 2nd div.
Clubs pay a licence fee.
Clubs pay significant money up front to get stadiums compliant.
From season 2 clubs will always be up against a former A-League team that will have a significant financial advantage over them.

Why would a club want to be part of that?
It sounds like a sure fire road to ruin for most of them.
And I know you guys are all like 'sink or swim' 'thats life' 'too bad' etc, but sorry but thats a shitty attitude when you on one hand are trying to grow the game, but then are more than happy for these clubs to go broke.

I think a lot of you on here have a very romantic idea of how football could be in Australia. I wish it was too, but the simple fact is you aren't dealing in reality.
Whoever was talking about Japans 100 year plan had the right idea, because its gonna take a shitload of time and money, and at the moment it aint here.

Continually thinking the failures of the past will somehow be the way of the future astounds me.

[monz6]

Team who comes first in div 2 vs team who comes last in div one over two legs. Winner plays next season in div one and loser in div 2. Just a thought

[lil_masi]

Question around salary cap.
You would think the salary cap would be much higher in the a-league than the 2nd div. So what happens when a team comes up, get much bigger salary cap sign players to multi-year deals then get relegated?

[plague]

Team who comes first in div 2 vs team who comes last in div one over two legs. Winner plays next season in div one and loser in div 2. Just a thought

as much as i like this, and it fits into the aussie "finals" type history, it would seem a bit unfair that a full strength A-League level squad goes up against an inferior team. Winning promotion means they 2nd div club gets up to A-League level with players etc.

[GazFish35]

Question around salary cap.
You would think the salary cap would be much higher in the a-league than the 2nd div. So what happens when a team comes up, get much bigger salary cap sign players to multi-year deals then get relegated?

parachute payements and relegation clauses in contracts.
theyre common place.


an EPL team gets booted, they get some money to soften the blow and cover costs such as you raised, and a smart club would have clauses that either terminate a players contract if the club is relegated, or the wage is severely diminished.


from memory, among other things, not having relegation clauses in players contracts is one reason why Leeds have never really come back from being relegated.

[plague]

Question around salary cap.
You would think the salary cap would be much higher in the a-league than the 2nd div. So what happens when a team comes up, get much bigger salary cap sign players to multi-year deals then get relegated?


no, the salary cap would have to be much less based on the difference in FFA grant/tv money/general revenue.
from my understanding a lot of players O/S have release clauses in their contracts activated by relegation. This would probably be win/win as the club doesnt have to pay higher wages.

the bigger issue is with support staff/club employees who may be surplus to requirements in the 2nd div. good luck being the person who has to sack someone for no fault of their own.

[Macca]

Question around salary cap.
You would think the salary cap would be much higher in the a-league than the 2nd div. So what happens when a team comes up, get much bigger salary cap sign players to multi-year deals then get relegated?

I'm guessing when a 2nd div comes in a lot of contracts would then have clauses based around relegation, either to end the contract early or change the salary accordingly.

[RAM]

Geographical size difference is massive. Devonport to Hobart is 3 1/2 drive. You drive that long From anywhere in Spain and your talking half the country. If you have a Tassie team it has to be in Hobart which has 220k and roughly half the population. Anywhere else and there is no point. Place is much bigger than people think

I was in Tasmania last year, on a driving holiday.

Devonport isn't that far from Launceston, being a major centre with a considerable catchment area.

If any event, South Hobart is prob the only TAS team capable atm of having the facilities etc of competing nationally.

[RAM]

I'm guessing when a 2nd div comes in a lot of contracts would then have clauses based around relegation, either to end the contract early or change the salary accordingly.

yep - happens all over the world

[RAM]

no, the salary cap would have to be much less based on the difference in FFA grant/tv money/general revenue.
from my understanding a lot of players O/S have release clauses in their contracts activated by relegation. This would probably be win/win as the club doesnt have to pay higher wages.

the bigger issue is with support staff/club employees who may be surplus to requirements in the 2nd div. good luck being the person who has to sack someone for no fault of their own.

Their contracts would be the same.

I've been involved with companies that have had employment contracts subject to grant money - similar principle.

[plague]

Their contracts would be the same.

I've been involved with companies that have had employment contracts subject to grant money - similar principle.

oh no doubt.
would be interesting with CEO's/coaches etc too. Clubs decide to hang onto to someone earning wages they maybe can't afford vs saving the cash and going with a cheaper option but lessening the chances of going back up.

[Jetmaster]

Need to aim high with attendances and look at potential growth.

Hard to believe but every current side has had a home crowd of at least 20,000 at least once. Except CCM who have a couple of 19k crowds and Perth who we know can do it if they get it right (best 16k plus).

[RAM]

ok lets do this one at a time.
1. But is it A-League standard? Lighting/seating etc? Id actually have no problem if 2nd div clubs had lower compliance standards but once they hit the big time they need to play at an A-League level stadium (hence getting a big lease etc). So they are gonna need way more than 4000 crowds to be solvent. You think they can get the numbers? How do they get them? Because everyone wants them to 'stay the same' yet as they are they are getting 4000.

I think you apply the FFA Cup standard across the board. Expecting everyone to play at Suncorp or other large stadiums with no atmosphere is counterproductive imo.

As long as there is sufficient seating in a grandstand and lighting to FFA Cup levels, then this should be enough imo.

In terms of crowd numbers, these clubs were getting that much or more in the NSL and its silly to think they would get NPL sized crowds playing in a national competition with teams like MV or WSW visiting. The bigger the stage the bigger the crowds. They don't need huge crowds to be solvent - if they did they would have folded decades ago like the Breakers.


2. I don't think licence fees should apply either once promo/relegation starts, but the simple fact is the existing clubs have paid big big money to join in and then go on to lose even more. To then have new clubs turn up and get an easier ride in doesnt sit well with me either. The 2nd div doesnt get off the ground without the approval of the existing clubs, so they are gonna want to see these new clubs pony up as well.

Agreed, but the licence fee is to enter a second division with conditional promotion/relegation - ala the model suggested by the NQF chair. In this case it must be reduced, as it is a lesser "right" or "privilege" to join the 2nd division.


3. So you want the clubs to operate as is, then if they make the big time 'then' they have to be compliant? What if they can't? You want court cases and appeals? Look at the farce the local comp has agreeing on a compliance standard. Im saying get a rock solid compliance standard from day one (which means these smaller clubs WILL have to finance facilities etc) well before they see the money come back in. and if then never go up how are they ever going to pay the bills?

No, you mis-read me. Have a minimum standard for the 2nd division, and conditional promotion based upon a relaxed standard at HAL level.


4. OK, heres my big big problem with a lot of you guys. You are throwing figures around which are such pie in the sky its not funny.
In Spain, the 2nd div gets 10% of the TV money to spread between their teams.
In England the Championship teams get approx 5% of the TV money compared to the EPL sides. Even using the best case scenario that the 2nd div even gets a TV deal you are looking at somewhere between $125k - $250k. Even double that and its still bugger all. and you guys are always mentioning South Melbourne and Melb Knights, but what about team 10-12 on that list? Who are they and why would the want to be part of it. Remember when the first A-League TV deal was being bandied around SBS offered to show the games but the FFA had to pay the production costs. Yes it was going to COST the FFA money to run the games, let alone actually derive any income from them.
yet you think the TV networks are gonna say "oh sweet, heres a bunch of money and airtime for Melbourne Knights v North Queensland Fury".

Its not pie in the sky. Again, I think you've misunderstood me. There are 2 separate issues - $$$ required in the 2nd division and $$$ required to be competitive in the HAL. The TV deals dictate this. ATM the HAL clubs get millions from the TV deal. A promoted team would get a slice of the pie from the HAL deal which would cover the salary cap payments - enough to make them competitive like us or the CCM in terms of a squad. The fact that most own their own stadiums put them in front of us as they have more revenue streams.

In the 2nd division, I'm not suggesting that they'll get a big TV deal. Just enough to cover travel would be sufficient imo. Teams then operate on existing budgets, with the additional income they will be able to attract from sponsors in a televised, national setting. IMO this would be enough for the above-mentioned clubs to find a budget of close to or for some exceeding $1M. The added excitement of potential promotion would undoubtedly increase crowds for these clubs.



So heres what im reading you guys think is plausible.
Clubs join the 2nd div.
Clubs pay a licence fee.
Clubs pay significant money up front to get stadiums compliant.
From season 2 clubs will always be up against a former A-League team that will have a significant financial advantage over them.

No. I don't. Clubs join 2nd division, pay reduced licence fee. Only join 2nd division based upon facilities criteria ensuring minimum standard. Relegation to be phased in after few years, including years of expansion up to about 14-16 teams in HAL.



[QUOTE=plague;165430]I think a lot of you on here have a very romantic idea of how football could be in Australia. I wish it was too, but the simple fact is you aren't dealing in reality.
Whoever was talking about Japans 100 year plan had the right idea, because its gonna take a shitload of time and money, and at the moment it aint here.

Continually thinking the failures of the past will somehow be the way of the future astounds me.

We've never had P/R, not even in the NSL. A semi pro/minimum pro 2nd division is being realist. Its not pie in the sky, or romantic - I am a realist and a pessimist if anything. The time has come that we bite the bullet and say that the HAL in its current form has served its purpose of mainstreaming the game, but we need to draw upon our grassroots potential to take the game further. A closed comp of 10 clubs, with 80% of the clubs being under financial stress or making huge losses is not sustainable. A bigger TV deal will come from more teams, and drawing upon the existing grassroots will do that, whilst providing a pathway for more players and more fans.

[RAM]

oh no doubt.
would be interesting with CEO's/coaches etc too. Clubs decide to hang onto to someone earning wages they maybe can't afford vs saving the cash and going with a cheaper option but lessening the chances of going back up.

That's up to the clubs and their owners/committees.

[plague]

I think you apply the FFA Cup standard across the board. Expecting everyone to play at Suncorp or other large stadiums with no atmosphere is counterproductive imo.

As long as there is sufficient seating in a grandstand and lighting to FFA Cup levels, then this should be enough imo.


OK firstly cheers for your responses. It def cleared things up as your answers in regards to the Fury dudes plan makes way more sense to me rather than a straight up promotion relegation.

I def disagree though in terms of stadiums. I can't see any way in Griffs green earth that the FFA let anyway play at a "suburban" looking ground.
My dream is for company owned, Bluetongue sized shared stadiums (with 4 sides.....and less gypos) especially in the big cities that multiple teams can share. Then piggyback onto the big stadium for your derby/finals etc etc.

Its def been a focus of MLS for teams to own their own homes and they are built to a league standard. It also means long term thinking and money. But as I've noted elsewhere, team owners aint gonna invest massive amounts of money in stadiums with limited guarantee of being in the comp.

[plague]

speaking of stadiums. Gypoland cost $28m (in 2000 $) to build and seats 20,000.
would love to see FFA/Melbourne clubs sit down see if they could pull a similar venture off.

[RAM]

OK firstly cheers for your responses. It def cleared things up as your answers in regards to the Fury dudes plan makes way more sense to me rather than a straight up promotion relegation.

I def disagree though in terms of stadiums. I can't see any way in Griffs green earth that the FFA let anyway play at a "suburban" looking ground.
My dream is for company owned, Bluetongue sized shared stadiums (with 4 sides.....and less gypos) especially in the big cities that multiple teams can share. Then piggyback onto the big stadium for your derby/finals etc etc.

Its def been a focus of MLS for teams to own their own homes and they are built to a league standard. It also means long term thinking and money. But as I've noted elsewhere, team owners aint gonna invest massive amounts of money in stadiums with limited guarantee of being in the comp.

The US is much bigger market with much more money.

I think its unrealistic to expect every club in our top 2 divisions to have a stadium like Bluetongue. I would have a slightly tweaked Knights Stadium as the minimum standard for HAL and a Broadmeadow standard for the 2nd division.

The money, nor population, simply isn't here in Australia to demand or require such stadia. 8,000 people at Hunter Stadium is a shit atmosphere, but 8,000 at Hindmarsh or Knights stadium and the place is rocking. Smaller grounds (and more profitable!!) make for better atmosphere and better TV. Sure you can move bigger games to bigger stadiums. But a capacity of 30,000 or 20,000 is pointless for a second division club, and most HAL clubs at the moment.

[RAM]

speaking of stadiums. Gypoland cost $28m (in 2000 $) to build and seats 20,000.
would love to see FFA/Melbourne clubs sit down see if they could pull a similar venture off.

What about AAMI Park?

[De-Champ]

I do no know why you are arguing over stadiums. All the old NSL sides have got decent enough stadiums for the 2nd tier level. Most of them if not all of them can play out of the A League stadiums if they were promoted. Eg Sydney Utd have a decent ground, if they were promoted they could play out of Parramatta. The Melbourne sides would have the same, eg Knights stadium is ok for 2nd tier, they could play out of AAMI park if promoted. Same goes for the Brisbane sides etc. In fact I can't think of any side in the 2nd tier that would have a problem with stadiums to play at.

[plague]

The US is much bigger market with much more money.

I think its unrealistic to expect every club in our top 2 divisions to have a stadium like Bluetongue. I would have a slightly tweaked Knights Stadium as the minimum standard for HAL and a Broadmeadow standard for the 2nd division.

The money, nor population, simply isn't here in Australia to demand or require such stadia. 8,000 people at Hunter Stadium is a shit atmosphere, but 8,000 at Hindmarsh or Knights stadium and the place is rocking. Smaller grounds (and more profitable!!) make for better atmosphere and better TV. Sure you can move bigger games to bigger stadiums. But a capacity of 30,000 or 20,000 is pointless for a second division club, and most HAL clubs at the moment.

I understand the US population etc, my comment was based on the governing body saying, "you want in our comp, here is the criteria". whatever the specifics are is malleable, but there is a set structure. Also the american clubs have a much bigger representation running the game, so yes they are acting for the most part in self interest, but every bit of success means success for everyone, and thats not a bad model. the biggest gripe against the FFA from the likes of Tinks, Sage, Palmer was the lack of representation they had in governing the game they bankrolled. and as much as a few of those blokes were utter shitcunce, i always thoughts that point was legit.

I used Bluetongue as it was a much more economical stadium to build. if i remember correctly AAMI was a very expensive place. And yes id be happy to see every Melbourne team at all levels play out of AAMI, but my point again was it would be better to have a dedicated, federation/team owned venue.

heck, the AFL just shelled out $200m to own Etihad just so their clubs had more stability and lower costs using the joint. and yes soccer doesnt have that sort of money, but its more the mindset that i love. the AFL could have easily said "too bad, do your own rent deal and if you die then who cares", but they use their money much more wisely. plus they use their club boardmembers clout to lobby governments for money. the AFL is smart man, theres a lot of lessons that can be learned from them.

yeah id love to see Northern NSW build a No#2 oval sized stadium all seater 12k capacity play all inner city NPL games there and the Jets play all non finals games there. NPL sides get the revenue on matchday and pay a % for maintenance rather than every club in the city trying to keep a ground up to standard for 10/12 games a year.

well, id love to see someone think of an idea like that. Rugby seemed to pull it off pretty quickly, surely the resources/minds of FFA/NNSW?council/state govt could think of something?

[plague]

I do no know why you are arguing over stadiums. All the old NSL sides have got decent enough stadiums for the 2nd tier level. Most of them if not all of them can play out of the A League stadiums if they were promoted. Eg Sydney Utd have a decent ground, if they were promoted they could play out of Parramatta. The Melbourne sides would have the same, eg Knights stadium is ok for 2nd tier, they could play out of AAMI park if promoted. Same goes for the Brisbane sides etc. In fact I can't think of any side in the 2nd tier that would have a problem with stadiums to play at.

i wouldn't say we are 'arguing' about stadiums. people def have different ideas on what would be acceptable for a national comp,and i can see their point. and yes i absolutely think all teams in capital cities should play out of generic stadiums like AAMI. But they need to realise they start paying BIG rents in that case and all im saying is that i wish long term the FFA and clubs pooled their resources and built their own idea of 'AAMI park' to make the individual clubs more cost effective.

[goaliepersempre]

Team who comes first in div 2 vs team who comes last in div one over two legs. Winner plays next season in div one and loser in div 2. Just a thought

1st annd last direct.... 2nd and 2nd last playoff..

[goaliepersempre]

134113421343

Xamax Stadium 10 000 seat... shopping center incoorporated. Hey lowy Westfields... lol


13441345

FC Thun - 10 000. Just outside of town. walking distance from trainstation.. Shopping center next door.. Massive Parking underground

[goaliepersempre]

134613471347

Tissot Arena...

Multi use.. Ice hockey rinks and shopping. Ice Hockey Stadium.... Football has space 5200 with options can be extended to 10000

[goaliepersempre]

Above posts.. stadium can be small but yet professional.. (FFA would approve)

Plus if can build a new stadium in switzerland with the little amount of space we have.. im sure there are options in Aus....



Promotion and Relegation has to come for the simple reason of competition... (the league cannot develop if that doesnt come in..) This isnt Rugby league or AFL that the game is really only played here. thus the best talent stays here and thus the competition can improve...

[plague]

Also, why not a-league youth teams in this 2nd div? Obvs no promotion but after the fury 6 year plan if we have 14-16 a-league teams if half of them want to have a youth team then let them play your top npl teams. Maybe mandate every youth team has to be in the lower divisions within 10 years and by then with the 'smaller' npl clubs you've got a ready made 3rd division.


Spitballing.

[The Postman]

Miron Bleiberg leading the charge for a 2nd Brisbane team.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/football/a-league/miron-bleiberg-reveals-group-ready-to-bankroll-southeast-queensland-aleague-side/news-story/8fab2a9fc9e6337a553c2ce7e884c9c1

[hawk]

Miron Bleiberg leading the charge for a 2nd Brisbane team.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/football/a-league/miron-bleiberg-reveals-group-ready-to-bankroll-southeast-queensland-aleague-side/news-story/8fab2a9fc9e6337a553c2ce7e884c9c1

Not sure if Miron and his band of bogans can handle another team. They're all the "fkn smashim" crowd

[Premy]

Not sure if Miron and his band of bogans can handle another team. They're all the "fkn smashim" crowd

Completely disagree.
There is quite a lot of Football fans in Brisbane that felt disconnected from Hollandia since the beginning of the A-League and that has only grown even more since the Barkies.

IMO Miron and his cohort should jump in bed with Strikers as I see them as the only viable option as a second Brisbane side.

[turbojetfireV8]

Not sure if Miron and his band of bogans can handle another team. They're all the "fkn smashim" crowd

Wayne Bennett to coach em in that case...

[Premy]

2nd New Zealand Club possibly on the cards from O'Rourke.
http://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/ffa-floats-second-nz-club-439899

Interesting thing I found from this is the possible ambition of 15-16 Clubs in 5-6 years.

[stopper2]

Can see the attraction for another NZ team purely for TV scheduling as it gives another option in the earlier timeslots of either 3pm or 5pm (AESDT).
After the debacle of the NZ Knights is it worth taking another risk in Auckland though?

I think in the next expansion phase to 12 teams the FFA will favour a 2nd Brisbane team over a regional team like Woolongong, Canberra or Geelong. Just from what Gallop has been saying about the need for teams with 1 million plus populations behind them, I think hints to what their intentions are.
The Sydney and Melbourne derbys are huge money spinners and seem to be getting bigger every season not only in terms of crowds but interest generated. Daresay FFA would like more of this and to expand on it so the next logical step would probably be a 2nd Brisbane team.

[WolfMan]

RE: 2nd NZ team - why not Christchurch? As far as I'm aware, they put on a good show for U/17's World Cup last year. Spreading the love to the South Island would work well IMHO

[hawk]

Wayne Bennett to coach em in that case...

lol, might as well. Could just work

[turbojetfireV8]

RE: 2nd NZ team - why not Christchurch? As far as I'm aware, they put on a good show for U/17's World Cup last year. Spreading the love to the South Island would work well IMHO

Don't they have earthquakes there? That could be interesting...

[plague]

Don't they have earthquakes there? That could be interesting...

Pretty sure that's San Jose.

[Jetmaster]

Hang on...AFC have a big problem with one NZ team in the league. How would they react to two?

[turbojetfireV8]

Pretty sure that's San Jose.

San Jose hasn't had a decent one in years, Kiwis owning them at the moment ;)
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/page/christchurch-earthquake-kills-185

[plague]

San Jose hasn't had a decent one in years, Kiwis owning them at the moment ;)
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/page/christchurch-earthquake-kills-185

oh man.
you really gonna go and wake the Captain up on a monday morning this early?

[Premy]

San Jose hasn't had a decent one in years, Kiwis owning them at the moment ;)
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/page/christchurch-earthquake-kills-185

:facepalm:

[RAM]

RE: 2nd NZ team - why not Christchurch? As far as I'm aware, they put on a good show for U/17's World Cup last year. Spreading the love to the South Island would work well IMHO

FMD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No more Kiwis FFS

Lets give some Aussie kids a chance of playing top flight, not ****ING Kiwis

[WolfMan]

Wow. No need for the hostility.

Also, I think you've used your exclamation quota. Now how will we know when you're yelling?

It wasn't my idea to introduce another NZ team. I was merely putting forth another option if it were to go ahead. I've only ever heard about Auckland, and I guess per capita it makes the most sense.

[Nou Camp]

would a combined Canberra Wollongong team work
"Southern Soccer Super Stars"

[Couscous]

would a combined Canberra Wollongong team work

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/64656745.jpg

[turbojetfireV8]

oh man.
you really gonna go and wake the Captain up on a monday morning this early?

don't you diss my man Capt Oblivious, I consider him a role model in so many ways, his shining example is probably one of the reasons I continue to remain a Jets fan, despite Jets' management's continual attempts to warn us all off this path to oblivion... (anyway, SJE don't even play football, they play some other game called sokkaa apparently, that hasn't been played in this country since Johnny Warren was a girl, is it any wonder that country is up sh*t creek without a creditable presidential candidate as a paddle...)

[RAM]

would a combined canberra wollongong team work
"southern soccer super stars"

fmd

[RAM]

Wow. No need for the hostility.

Also, I think you've used your exclamation quota. Now how will we know when you're yelling?

It wasn't my idea to introduce another NZ team. I was merely putting forth another option if it were to go ahead. I've only ever heard about Auckland, and I guess per capita it makes the most sense.

Forgive me. I'm prone to rage.

Per capita works in theory. Football markets are more than a population game imo. Need commercial and grassroots support AND **** the Kiwis is an important consideration. We need to look after our own youth players before theirs.

[plague]

Yeah look, my man Jetmaster is back there asking the big questions, I thought FIFA wanted the kiwis out of our comp is that not a thing anymore or are we all like 'yeah go **** yourself Sepp'?

[RAM]

Yeah look, my man Jetmaster is back there asking the big questions, I thought FIFA wanted the kiwis out of our comp is that not a thing anymore or are we all like 'yeah go **** yourself Sepp'?

Its stupid. We're shooting Oz football in the foot regardless of FIFA and the AFC's views.

But I guess that what we're good at in Australian football....

[goaliepersempre]

Yeah look, my man Jetmaster is back there asking the big questions, I thought FIFA wanted the kiwis out of our comp is that not a thing anymore or are we all like 'yeah go **** yourself Gianni'?

fixed... also swiss but yeah.

[stopper2]

http://www.a-league.com.au/article/head-of-hyundai-a-league-tackles-the-big-questions/o0j91su89w2q1ke7ylfz554ay
Interesting read from an interview with new head of the A-League Greg O'Rourke.

Found these couple of responses interesting in regard to expansion:

With expansion, broadly speaking, when do you think we might see two new clubs to make a six-game round?

I truly believe we’ll see within the next broadcast deal.

The next broadcast period starts next year and we won’t see expansion next year, but before it [the next broadcast deal expires] we’ll see expansion. That’s what I want, anyway.

Interesting enough, since we’ve been speaking about expansion much more over the last three months, we’ve received many unsolicited applications of expressions of interest from Far North Queensland, Perth, Tasmania and I was in New Zealand and they were asking me about a second team.


Also

Expand where the viewers and numbers are are in larger city centres, or regional areas? What view do you have on that?

My view is, FFA has gone to regional areas in the past, and some of those have failed. And we need to make sure we don’t repeat the past.

But I don’t think we should exclude from our thinking any regions.

We may be brought a proposal that is much bigger and of greater benefit to the game than we ever expected.

I’m expecting that and I’m expecting to be surprised by someone coming to us and saying, we should have an A-League team here and we say ‘wow’....

Because we don’t know everything about every inch of the map.I think there’s a lot to be said about harnessing opportunities in big cities but I’m not going to rule out the regions.

[&1gest]

Another interesting read
http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/exclusive-jon-smith-details-aleague-expansion-plan-into-south-east-asia-rejected-by-frank-lowy/news-story/2f291420d52b8799c2375d80778c7c1b

[Macca]

Sounds like a super rugby type deal. Smaller clubs would need a lot of support up front as you'd imagine the costs would increase dramatically.

[Jetmaster]

Another interesting read
http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/exclusive-jon-smith-details-aleague-expansion-plan-into-south-east-asia-rejected-by-frank-lowy/news-story/2f291420d52b8799c2375d80778c7c1b

Bet Fatboy was the one owner not there or if he was, he would've wanted his franchise moved to Singapore.

[Premy]

Another interesting read
http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/exclusive-jon-smith-details-aleague-expansion-plan-into-south-east-asia-rejected-by-frank-lowy/news-story/2f291420d52b8799c2375d80778c7c1b

Yesterday's news, now that expansion is back on the table I bet we'll keep seeing a lot more rehashed news.

In other expansion news FFA were supposedly meeting with a Hobart based consortium. The consortium features 2 previous Victory share holders.

[Jetmaster]

Yesterday's news, now that expansion is back on the table I bet we'll keep seeing a lot more rehashed news.

In other expansion news FFA were supposedly meeting with a Hobart based consortium. The consortium features 2 previous Victory share holders.

http://www.themercury.com.au/sport/local-sport/plenty-of-smoke-plenty-of-fire-around-tassies-aleague-push-says-fft-chief-executive-mike-palmer/news-story/0c7d2c6d34975d8ec814d380453eb146

[Premy]

South Melbourne claim to be ready in one months time to submit a application for entry into the A-League come expansion.

[boz-monaut]

call me Old Soccer but I've always wanted to see South Melbourne in the A-league

would love to see Canberra United make it an even dozen

[plague]

What was the crowd figure from the game in Canberra the other day?
Heard somewhere FFA was using it as a 'litmus test'.

[The Camel]

call me Old Soccer but I've always wanted to see South Melbourne in the A-league

would love to see Canberra United make it an even dozen

Looks like the Tassie bid has major legs and might even be in next year. Brisbane Strikers/ Other bid based in Logan Ipswich could be a great go for 12. I would like to see a second division come in before the top league gets expanded. You could promote out of the second division if they meet stadium criteria etc.

Second Div is where I would like to see them use the NPL clubs but in strategic locations:

NSW/ACT
Sutherland Sharks/Rockdale/St George
Wollongong Wolves
Macarthur/Campbelltown
Sydney United/Liverpool
Blacktown
Penrith/Nepean
Manly
Canberra

Vic
Sth Melbourne
Melb Knights
Hume
Dandenong
Geelong

QLD:
Brisbane Strikers/Logan Ipswich (Whichever not already in A League)
Gold Coast City
Sunshine Coast
Fury/Townsville
Heat/Cairns

SA
Adelaide City or West Adelaide

WA
2nd Perth Team

That is 20 teams in a second division after having expanded the A League to 12. Over the course of Maybe 5-10 years you promote teams up until you have 16 in both divisions. Then you start Promotion/Relegation.

[belchardo]

What was the crowd figure from the game in Canberra the other day?
Heard somewhere FFA was using it as a 'litmus test'.

about 5,500. pretty disappointing really. record Canberra crowd for the w-league game before hand however.

Canberra is a bit like Newcastle in terms of parochial support. why would they turn up to support two blow in teams?

[furns]

about 5,500. pretty disappointing really. record Canberra crowd for the w-league game before hand however.

Canberra is a bit like Newcastle in terms of parochial support. why would they turn up to support two blow in teams?little promotion of the game
Two teams at bottom of the table
Burnt before when Canberra bid was ignored for WSW

Canberra has done more than enough to show support for the game for Socceroos and Asian Cup games. Give them a team already.
However I don't think they will this time around. I am betting they will go for a second Brisbane team and whichever other bid has strongest backing.

[Wilso8948]

Looks like the Tassie bid has major legs and might even be in next year.

FFA ruled out Tassie last week after the two met. ?

[RAM]

Expansion won't be outside Syd, Melb and Brisbane.

FFA will play it "safe" with big markets, won't take a punt on "regional" teams like Canberra and Tasmania due to the failures of NQF, GCU, CCM and the Jets.

[The Camel]

FFA ruled out Tassie last week after the two met. ?

http://outside90.com/tasmania-close-to-receiving-100-support-from-ffa-for-a-league-entry/

[Wilso8948]

http://outside90.com/tasmania-close-to-receiving-100-support-from-ffa-for-a-league-entry/

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4283530/ffa-set-to-introduce-a-league-expansion-framework-after-meeting-with-tasmanian-bid/?cs=2439

"An FFA spokesman confirmed that a meeting with representatives of a Tasmania bid took place in Sydney where it is understood the governing body decided against granting the state its first professional football team of any code and signposted the criteria for a successful bid"

Sounds like the two are saying two very different things lol

[boz-monaut]

Expansion won't be outside Syd, Melb and Brisbane.

FFA will play it "safe" with big markets, won't take a punt on "regional" teams like Canberra and Tasmania due to the failures of NQF, GCU, CCM and the Jets.

http://giant.gfycat.com/RichCookedBrant.gif

http://i.imgur.com/VQLGJOL.gif

http://i.imgur.com/H7CP3Ug.gif

[Wilso8948]

Calling the Jets failures.. Sounds like a ban to me. GTFO hey. I'm big on bagging the shit outta this club and being as negative as the next **** but i'll be sure as shit angry when some rando calls them failures.

[RAM]

Calling the Jets failures.. Sounds like a ban to me. GTFO hey. I'm big on bagging the shit outta this club and being as negative as the next **** but i'll be sure as shit angry when some rando calls them failures.

Off the pitch we're a cluster****. On the pitch we have been for years.

Can't argue with FACTS

[RAM]

http://giant.gfycat.com/RichCookedBrant.gif

http://i.imgur.com/VQLGJOL.gif

http://i.imgur.com/H7CP3Ug.gif

:rof:

[Wilso8948]

Off the pitch we're a cluster****. On the pitch we have been for years.

Can't argue with FACTS

Of course we are. Doesn't mean we are a failure. Go support some plastic shit **** team if you can't ride out the bad times.

[borat]

about 5,500. pretty disappointing really. record Canberra crowd for the w-league game before hand however.

Canberra is a bit like Newcastle in terms of parochial support. why would they turn up to support two blow in teams?

You seriously think that is disappointing for Gypos and Nix? If that was at Gosford they would be getting 6-7k maybe.

If 5.5 turn up to see those abominations of teams, a real Canberra side should regularly push 10k

[RAM]

Of course we are. Doesn't mean we are a failure. Go support some plastic shit **** team if you can't ride out the bad times.

lol I've been supporting Newcastle in all its various forms for nearly 30 years.

Go **** yourself.

[q-money]

Off the pitch we're a cluster****. On the pitch we have been for years.

Can't argue with FACTS

FACTS

jeez i miss the member

[Wilso8948]

lol I've been supporting Newcastle in all its various forms for nearly 30 years.

Go **** yourself.

You call that support? Call them what you will but one thing they are Not is a "failure". Sure the teams a basket case. But don't throw them in the same category as other teams which have literally failed in the past. This club has many things to be proud of. 30 years and I'm sure you can name a few. Don't be such a negative ****.

[RAM]

You call that support? Call them what you will but one thing they are Not is a "failure". Sure the teams a basket case. But don't throw them in the same category as other teams which have literally failed in the past. This club has many things to be proud of. 30 years and I'm sure you can name a few. Don't be such a negative ****.

4 owners in 6 years.

We're failures.

KB United, Rosebuds, Breakers, United, Jets.....its a circus in this town.

[Wilso8948]

4 owners in 6 years.

We're failures.

KB United, Rosebuds, Breakers, United, Jets.....its a circus in this town.
Circus yes. Failure not. Why are fans like you still around after 30 years if it's all such a failure? The club is always bigger then every player fan owner whatever. The sooner people realise that the sooner we may just turn the circus around in the right direction

[GazFish35]

Well said

[plague]

I mean, going broke is kind of a failure isn't it?

Ceasing to exist is kind of a failure isn't it?

Blokes are still around after 30 years because they get distracted by shiny new things. Human nature and all that.

[RAM]

I mean, going broke is kind of a failure isn't it?

Ceasing to exist is kind of a failure isn't it?

Blokes are still around after 30 years because they get distracted by shiny new things. Human nature and all that.

****en oath.

I wouldn't call playing pass the parcel with our HAL licence a ****ing success....

I'm a realist. But I'm also a proud Novocastrian and football fan. That's why I support our ****ing basketcase of a club.

[Wilso8948]

****en oath.

I wouldn't call playing pass the parcel with our HAL licence a ****ing success....

I'm a realist. But I'm also a proud Novocastrian and football fan. That's why I support our ****ing basketcase of a club.

As am I. Certain business side of our club has been a disaster. I just can not and will not accept that we are a failure of a club. Blokes like us are still around. And we are no more of a fan then the little boys and girls that come and watch their first game of football and fall in love. Yes sport is a business and all that shit. But we also shouldn't lose sight of who we are as a club.

[Wilso8948]

Anyway back to expansion

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2016/11/15/league-expansion-criteria-will-be-ready-new-year

Can't see Tassie getting in.

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2016/11/15/brisbane-bid-should-be-next-league-entrant-says-bleiberg

He raises some excellent logical points. A bit of an argument to the people calling for it all to happen overnight.

[plague]

And we are no more of a fan then the little boys and girls that come and watch their first game of football and fall in love.

I feel like I don't know you anymore.

[Wilso8948]

I feel like I don't know you anymore.

I feel like I don't know you at all.. bro.

[plague]

Actually in support of Wilso's argument, he is indeed correct that the Martin Lee owned version of the Jets has yet to fail.



Every other incarnation of football at the highest level in this city? Have at it.

[Wilso8948]

More so just over being the laughing stock of the league. Getting comparisons with the gypos and two failed franchises will do me. Back in the day was awesome to get on the tins with the boys and look forward to a night game etc. Now trying to explain to the mrs who relocated here 6 years ago that the stadium was once packed makes me look like a liar. Now we have a little one who I'm sure will be a lifelong newy fan. Will we buy jerseys for her every year and sit in the squadron? probably not. But I sure as shit won't look at my club as a failure. Sure I'm as quick to bag them out as anyone on here but if we aren't going to back them up when things get tough then wtf are we all doing here?

edit - I'm just here for the laughs and cause my day job is boring as shit.

[The Dunster]

Until Martin Lee turns up to training with a box of mangoes the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned.

[The Dunster]

FACTS

jeez i miss the member

Can we have a counter of some kind on the Homepage telling us how long until the member returns ?

I'd hate to be offline when he re-spawns onto the foz.

[WolfMan]

Can we have a counter of some kind on the Homepage telling us how long until the member returns ?

I'd hate to be offline when he re-spawns onto the foz.

I wonder if that is how Jesus felt, waiting 3 long days to squeeze between the rock and a hard place?

[Hunter403]

Can we have a counter of some kind on the Homepage telling us how long until the member returns ?

I'd hate to be offline when he re-spawns onto the foz.

Please. Can't wait for the explosion!

[boz-monaut]

every time you jerks mention him, we add an extra week

[Grimario]

When MFKS is the MFKS coming off MFKS his MFKS ban MFKS that MFKS you MFKS nazi MFKS mods MFKS put MFKS on MFKS him?

MFKS

[pv4]

every time you jerks mention him, we add an extra week

"we"

[RAM]

More so just over being the laughing stock of the league. Getting comparisons with the gypos and two failed franchises will do me. Back in the day was awesome to get on the tins with the boys and look forward to a night game etc. Now trying to explain to the mrs who relocated here 6 years ago that the stadium was once packed makes me look like a liar. Now we have a little one who I'm sure will be a lifelong newy fan. Will we buy jerseys for her every year and sit in the squadron? probably not. But I sure as shit won't look at my club as a failure. Sure I'm as quick to bag them out as anyone on here but if we aren't going to back them up when things get tough then wtf are we all doing here?

edit - I'm just here for the laughs and cause my day job is boring as shit.

We'll agree to disagree. :thumbsup:

[belchardo]

When MFKS is the MFKS coming off MFKS his MFKS ban MFKS that MFKS you MFKS nazi MFKS mods MFKS put MFKS on MFKS him?

MFKS

and do quotes containing MFKS's name have the same effect on MFKS as mentioning MFKS?

[Wilso8948]

We'll agree to disagree. :thumbsup:

Yeh mate. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Mine is just always right that's all.

[RAM]

Yeh mate. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Mine is just always right that's all.

:rof:

[plague]

every time you jerks mention him, we add an extra week

Members not coming back.
He gone.
Remember the good times lads.
Hold your children close.

[Grimario]

and do quotes containing MFKS's name have the same effect on MFKS as mentioning MFKS?
When MFKS is the MFKS coming off MFKS his MFKS ban MFKS that MFKS you MFKS nazi MFKS mods MFKS put MFKS on MFKS him?

MFKS

That's a really good question. I, for one, wouldn't want to extend MFKS ban any longer than MFKS deserved for doing whatever MFKS did in his ever so MFKS-esque ways.

[The Postman]

With so much interest, FFA need to hurry up and get this moving.

Similar to the Fury CEO

Geelong
Tasmania
Canberra
South Melbourne
Wollongong Wolves
Brisbane Strikers
Northern Fury
Sydney United

- Form a B League in 17/18 season.
- Give teams 2 years to build $$$, fan support and get everything else up to standard.
- Start promotion for end of 18/19 season.
- Promte 2 teams every year to HAL, Minor and Major Premiers (or GF runner up if the same team wins both).
- Promote other willing NPL teams into the B League until we have 2 leagues of 18 with full promotion/relegation.

[Grimario]

That's pretty much the exact thing I was banging on about them doing 3 years ago. FFA needed to hire me back then but I am off the market now. Unlucky.

[Premy]

With so much interest, FFA need to hurry up and get this moving.

Similar to the Fury CEO

Geelong
Tasmania
Canberra
South Melbourne
Wollongong Wolves
Brisbane Strikers
Northern Fury
Sydney United

- Form a B League in 17/18 season.
- Give teams 2 years to build $$$, fan support and get everything else up to standard.
- Start promotion for end of 18/19 season.
- Promte 2 teams every year to HAL, Minor and Major Premiers (or GF runner up if the same team wins both).
- Promote other willing NPL teams into the B League until we have 2 leagues of 18 with full promotion/relegation.

Exactly what I am thinking but instead of 18 clubs I would say 16.
Play each Club home and away twice perfect 30 games season.

[The Dunster]

Members not coming back.
He gone.
Remember the good times lads.
Hold your children close.

http://static.snopes.com/crime/graphics/crybaby.jpg
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/crying-on-sofa1.gif?w=620&h=348&crop=1
https://media.giphy.com/media/BcF7P2fOYyKJO/giphy-facebook_s.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee102/onesolejeanius/tumblr_lh7fdodSgI1qax6g2.gif

[Thomas477]

RIP Member, I shall remember you for your World Cup Diary thread

[lquiquer]

RIP Member, I shall remember you for your World Cup Diary thread

Don't worry too much about the Good Member....he is having the time of his life right now in Thai country......few local ales, cigars....possibly visiting local Cafe Con Piernas?.......He is doing just fine....

[Jetmaster]

I swear he lives on in the Herald comments!

[hawk]

yeah you jerks, you apparently are worse than Christians. Isis is ok though

btw, how did this arise in expansion thread? fk me. Carn south shire Sydeny

[belchardo]

ABC radio reporting an impending announcement about an announcement in February about expansion to a 12 team comp in 2018. can't find anything in print yet.

...so at least we'll be able to battle for a couple of new positions :)

[Premy]

ABC radio reporting an impending announcement about an announcement in February about expansion to a 12 team comp in 2018. can't find anything in print yet.

...so at least we'll be able to battle for a couple of new positions :)

http://outside90.com/official-a-league-expansion-set-for-2018-19-season/

[plague]

ABC radio reporting an impending announcement about an announcement in February about expansion to a 12 team comp in 2018. can't find anything in print yet.

...so at least we'll be able to battle for a couple of new positions :)

They are still reeling from their Hillary coverage.
Grasping at straws now.
Until Alex Jones confirms a 12 team comp don't believe nufin'.

[Wilso8948]

I think we need another newy team. Least we can jump ship and still be loyal

[boz-monaut]

Newcastle City FC for the A-League

we can play in light blue

[belchardo]

So we'll be getting one new team in sydney and one in brisbane or melbourne (only because they couldn't have 4 sydney teams)

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/08/broadcasters-input-a-league-expansion-locations

Sport is dead, long live business!

[turbojetfireV8]

so we'll be getting one new team in sydney and one in brisbane or melbourne (only because they couldn't have 4 sydney teams)

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/08/broadcasters-input-a-league-expansion-locations

sport is dead, long live business!


ffa asks broadcasters to identify their preferred expansion locations ??? Wtf?

[plague]

??? Wtf?

Fox pays the bills, of course they should have a major say.

[Premy]

Fox pays the bills, of course they should have a major say.

It may not be up to Fox.

[Wilso8948]

Y'all sound so surprised..

[stopper2]

Fox pays the bills, of course they should have a major say.

I believe "partly dictate" were the words used.
To me it sounds like FFA want a concensus of opinion that they and the broadcaster/s are all on the same page in regards to expansion. which from a football purist angle might not sound so great but that is the reality of modern sport.

[hawk]

Fox pays the bills, of course they should have a major say.

If sponsors and or broadcasters get a say then Hello Redbull Sugar Cubes, you are in

[plague]

I believe "partly dictate" were the words used.
To me it sounds like FFA want a concensus of opinion that they and the broadcaster/s are all on the same page in regards to expansion. which from a football purist angle might not sound so great but that is the reality of modern sport.

You forgot to log in as Captain Obvious.

[belchardo]

what we need to know is the important questions - will the finals series be expanded to 8 teams? actually, I'm pretty confident I know that it will be.

[Wilso8948]

what we need to know is the important questions - will the finals series be expanded to 8 teams? actually, I'm pretty confident I know that it will be.

We'll manage to finish 9th.

[goaliepersempre]

Screw away with the finals and get the Cup properly organised....

[380]

If those at the Wollongong Wolves can get Bruce Gordon's financial support over the line then the return of the Wolves should be a given.

Gordon has more than a passing interest in Football and sport in general with sponsorship of WIN stadium Wollongong

For those of you who do not know who Gordon is he is the man behind WIN TV and various other media. Always had a soft spot i believe for a Wolves return. Having a bloke like Gordon and his Free To Air interests could not do any harm either if he inclined to negotiate with the governing body and Fox to acquire some games to televise on his networks. At a guess not to dissimilar to the SBS/FFA/Fox arrangements for Fri night football.

If and when there could be a Gordon " in " so to speak the FFA should give a stand alone Wollongong team a green light in the first instant. None of this hybrid inbred Shire, St George and Wollongong mixed rubbish the FFA or more to the point past his "use by date Gallop" keeps banging on about.

IMO it would be good day for the HAL if past successful teams from the old NSL can be rewarded with a A League license. Of course it needs to happen on the back of a solid proposal and not sentiment but it is a great way to start the expansion process.

I reckon the Wolves would conservatively pull min 7500 to games at WIN stadium . The Mariners could only dream of hitting that figure on a regular basis yet somehow and god only knows the Mariners year after year of piss ant crowd numbers seem to be good enough for the FFA.

Yes i am on old Wolves supporter but with Gordon on board it would make for a very very strong bid indeed.

All IMO of course

[belchardo]

I like the gordon angle, but I think your mariners argument is wrong. mariners came in as a foundation team and have proven to be the second worst performing foundation club (support wise) behind the nz knights. add to that the failure of both the fury and gold coast (for a number of reasons but principle among them being low supporter numbers), the statements of gallop about fishing where the fish are and the relatively low population of the illawarra region, and I just don't see a stand alone wollongong team.

Sentiment in football is dead. I don't think the best business case in the world could sell a 7500 crowd to FFA (or more importantly Fox).

[hawk]

we can already guess who will get the new jerseys. Wont be any surprises

[The Postman]

Wollongong and South Melbourne get my vote.

Established clubs with a history, money, support, stadiums, players and their locations would make the broadcasters happy.

At the same time, I would be giving Canberra and Tasmania a NYL team or at minimum a NPL team. Allow them to build a support base, get a group of 18/19 year olds to build for 2 years and then come into the A-League.

Similar to the method used by the AFL with the GC Suns and the Giants playing in the lower leagues for a year or 2 before stepping up.

[Premy]

Just form a Second Division already and use that as a platform to expand the A-League.

[belchardo]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/feb/14/football-federation-australia-delay-a-league-expansion-and-w-league-reform

Aaaaaaaand it's off again.

[turbojetfireV8]

and while looking for more excuses to say no...
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4499418/ffa-shelve-expansion-for-two-years-tell-clubs-bigger-league-will-mean-losses/?cs=2439

[Jetmaster]

Here we go...another Sydney derby!

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/aleague-expansion-a-bid-for-a-south-sydney-side-confirmed-backed-by-a-chinese-consortium/news-story/3cc44d8664a62c2352fc5ad4a4de9833

And I bet the "Red Bull" team is in Melbourne.

[The Dunster]

Another Sydney team is insane when you have a club like Sydney FC leading the league and yet struggling to get fans to their games. WHere are the fans going to come from ? Where are the players going to come from ? You can't use 2nd rate players and be successful - I know this because I've supported the Jets since the A-league started.

[MFKS]

Another Sydney team is insane when you have a club like Sydney FC leading the league and yet struggling to get fans to their games. WHere are the fans going to come from ? Where are the players going to come from ? You can't use 2nd rate players and be successful - I know this because I've supported the Jets since the A-league started.

So where else we putting another side with this desire for expansion??

It a serious question.

The regional sides are not big enough to prosper just look at Jets Nix Gypos now constantly off the pace

We only have 5 major cities and doubling or tripling up is a necessity

So I don't really see any option other than more teams in Sydney/Melbourne

[goaliepersempre]

**** red bull --- nien zu rb -- alle bullen sind schweine

[Wilso8948]

So where else we putting another side with this desire for expansion??

It a serious question.

The regional sides are not big enough to prosper just look at Jets Nix Gypos now constantly off the pace

We only have 5 major cities and doubling or tripling up is a necessity

So I don't really see any option other than more teams in Sydney/Melbourne

As much as it pains me to say it I agree. The risk is just far too high to go regional. Anyone who thinks they'll go to Canberra, Tasmania etc in the near future is kidding themselves.

[Premy]

Expansion
2nd Brisbane
3rd Sydney

10 team nation wide second division in the next 5 years is a must. Introduction of Pro/Rel once the current 20 year license of the existing A-League clubs finish up.

[pv4]

Expansion
2nd Brisbane
3rd Sydney

10 team nation wide second division in the next 5 years is a must. Introduction of Pro/Rel once the current 20 year license of the existing A-League clubs finish up.

I don't see a 2nd Brisbane being realistic tbh.

IMO the only real answer for expansion is: Wollongong Wolves & South Melbourne FC.

Also, I just don't understand the logistics of a second division, particularly from a $ perspective as well as all the players with their own respective work/life duties. An Australian 2nd division just never has seemed realistic to me.

[The Dunster]

The quality of the league now is massively skewed as it is. Bringing in more teams with restrictions on imports, a salary cap, and concessions which favour the most cashed up clubs only doesn't seem like a great idea to me.
If the FFA gets rid of the restrictions on imports then it might work. But with restrictions on imports and a bastardised version of a salary cap it will no doubt turn to shit.
If the FFA want to improve the league - fix the referee problem.

[furns]

moved posts into here from news thread

as far as expansion teams go, needs to be at least one of the next two teams in a metro area but with the number of potentials stepping forward we could get to 18 teams very easily.
3rd Sydney, 3rd Melbourne, 2nd Brisbane, Wollongong, Tasmania, Geelong, Auckland City, Canberra.
Then you establish the 2nd division from existing NPL clubs and any other interested new entities (ie Gold Coast, Townsville, 2nd Perth, 2nd Adelaide, etc)

Issue is going to be the TV deal and the money involved as I foresee that the salary cap will need to be abolished inside of ten years and the clubs need to be getting some decent income.

[MFKS]

moved posts into here from news thread

as far as expansion teams go, needs to be at least one of the next two teams in a metro area but with the number of potentials stepping forward we could get to 18 teams very easily.
3rd Sydney, 3rd Melbourne, 2nd Brisbane, Wollongong, Tasmania, Geelong, Auckland City, Canberra.
Then you establish the 2nd division from existing NPL clubs and any other interested new entities (ie Gold Coast, Townsville, 2nd Perth, 2nd Adelaide, etc)

Issue is going to be the TV deal and the money involved as I foresee that the salary cap will need to be abolished inside of ten years and the clubs need to be getting some decent income.

I don't see the salary cap going anywhere

Since the start of the HAL it has benefited the players by having clubs forced to over pay salaries

The players union isn't gonna want it gone as it sees their shit **** reps all overpaid

You take it back to market value and Gyos Jets Nix all slash their wage spend

Adelaide Roar reign there spend in

So there is half the comps players getting less cash

[Premy]

People can choose to not see the feasibility in a second division but like it or not it's going to come down to a necessity.
AFC and FIFA are already pressuring FFA to get Promotion and Relegation sorted. It's in FFA and the Australian Footballing Communities best interest to have a second division sorted ASAP, A-League expansion can also come from established second division clubs.

[furns]

I don't see the salary cap going anywhere

Since the start of the HAL it has benefited the players by having clubs forced to over pay salaries

The players union isn't gonna want it gone as it sees their shit **** reps all overpaid

You take it back to market value and Gyos Jets Nix all slash their wage spend

Adelaide Roar reign there spend in

So there is half the comps players getting less cashI should clarify my statement. They will abolish the salary cap - but will establish a minimum spend to prevent what you posted from happening.
Its the max spend cap that will effectively be abolished.

[pv4]

People can choose to not see the feasibility in a second division but like it or not it's going to come down to a necessity.
AFC and FIFA are already pressuring FFA to get Promotion and Relegation sorted. It's in FFA and the Australian Footballing Communities best interest to have a second division sorted ASAP, A-League expansion can also come from established second division clubs.

Who is going to go watch 2nd division games, the attendance (and particularly the TV viewer numbers) for 1st division games is already bad enough.

Also it's going to be suuuuper shit when we (jerks) come last, get demoted, put faith in a shit coach & never get back up to 1st division. Just kills football in newy, again.

[Premy]

Who is going to go watch 2nd division games, the attendance (and particularly the TV viewer numbers) for 1st division games is already bad enough.

Also it's going to be suuuuper shit when we (jerks) come last, get demoted, put faith in a shit coach & never get back up to 1st division. Just kills football in newy, again.

I for one would go.
However I'll state it again it won’t come down to the fact if FFA want to do it, it will come down the fact that FFA will be forced to do it. Its best to get our house in order before we are forced to do so.
FFA are already on the nose with FIFA over there dictatorship style of governance, how long do you expect AFC and FIFA to keep listening to the whole "oh yeah well we're planning to do that soon".

[Wilso8948]

I see a fair few logistical issues with a second div but why can't it be a short style league. Say 5 teams with 10 games. Played over one/two months. Venue is the same for each matchday. Would reduce running costs. Winner gets promoted. I would think there would be a fair bit of interest being such a short and sweet comp. Just throwing the thought out there.

[MonkeyKplunk]

Who is going to go watch 2nd division games, the attendance (and particularly the TV viewer numbers) for 1st division games is already bad enough.

Also it's going to be suuuuper shit when we (jerks) come last, get demoted, put faith in a shit coach & never get back up to 1st division. Just kills football in newy, again.

I think this is the real reason we haven't seen any firm plans on a second division yet.
FFA will already know that there are current clubs who could out play 1st division clubs now, and there would be the very real possibility that a current A-League club could drop a division, not be able to fund itself in recruitment and coaching to make it's way back up, and thus killing off the junior pathways for a region.

Could you imagine a point where Jets, Nix, Gypos all dropped below the line and only strong Melbourne clubs were promoted. We'd end up with a top flight "National" competition that's only played within 1 or 2 states.

After that, your advertising dollars just start to fall away rapidly.

[pv4]

We'd end up with a top flight "National" competition that's only played within 1 or 2 states.

Tbf it works for NRL & AFL :rof:

[Hunter403]

Expansion teams:
Wolves and Geelong. Neither Sydney FC and City can fill a ground unless its a derby so adding another team to the mix in those cities will not improve crowds. Nice rectangular grounds with 15k to 20k crowd capacity. New audience. If not those two, the a Tassie team for the same reasons

[Wilso8948]

Expansion teams:
Neither Sydney FC and City can fill a ground unless its a derby so adding another team to the mix in those cities will not improve crowds. umm?

[The Dunster]

Can someone please explain why the AFC and FIFA are pressing the FFA to have relegation and hence a 1st and 2nd division in Australian domestic football ?
Last I checked Australia was a sovereign nation and the idea that we should let other countries let alone some foreign private enterprise dictate what we do is ridiculous.
What am I missing here ?

[Premy]

Can someone please explain why the AFC and FIFA are pressing the FFA to have relegation and hence a 1st and 2nd division in Australian domestic football ?
Last I checked Australia was a sovereign nation and the idea that we should let other countries let alone some foreign private enterprise dictate what we do is ridiculous.
What am I missing here ?
If we wish to be a member of those federations we must comply to the rules they set.
Much the same as FFA governing the rules of what it's member federations and clubs have to adhere to.

Sure we can run our own race, however that would mean that we can't participate in little tournaments like the Asian Cup and World Cup.

[Hunter403]

Lets ask FIFA to subsidise the cost if it means that much to them. Nah, might detract from their junckets....

[lquiquer]

If we wish to be a member of those federations we must comply to the rules they set.
Much the same as FFA governing the rules of what it's member federations and clubs have to adhere to.

Sure we can run our own race, however that would mean that we can't participate in little tournaments like the Asian Cup and World Cup.

Just by curiosity, are FIFA and CONCACAF also pressing the MLS to introduce promotion / relegation?

[Hunter403]

umm?

Umm what? Sydney's crowds have been low enough to have the press lamenting the poor numbers when they are leading the competition and City's crowds aren't much better than ours
Average HOME crowds this season are
MV 23588
WSW 19640
SFC 16581
Roar 14681
City 10866
Glory 10570
Reds 10160
Jets 8583
Gypsies 7532 (probably all free tickets)
Nix 6308 plus sheep

Source: http://www.worldfootball.net


I haven't got the time to start looking at the crowd vs population equation but the big city teams need to do better.

As I said, neither SFC or City go anywhere near filling their grounds. Adding another team into either market will not improve that situation. New markets please. Geelong is big enough and distant enough to create its own team without affecting the Melbourne teams too much. Same would apply to the Wolves in regard to Sydney teams. Tassie stands alone anyway.

Funnily enough the Jets are 5th for away crowds (11187). Must be that the opposition fans know that 3 points are likely....

[Wilso8948]

Umm what? Sydney's crowds have been low enough to have the press lamenting the poor numbers when they are leading the competition and City's crowds aren't much better than ours
Average HOME crowds this season are
MV 23588
WSW 19640
SFC 16581
Roar 14681
City 10866
Glory 10570
Reds 10160
Jets 8583
Gypsies 7532 (probably all free tickets)
Nix 6308 plus sheep

Source: http://www.worldfootball.net


I haven't got the time to start looking at the crowd vs population equation but the big city teams need to do better.

As I said, neither SFC or City go anywhere near filling their grounds. Adding another team into either market will not improve that situation. New markets please. Geelong is big enough and distant enough to create its own team without affecting the Melbourne teams too much. Same would apply to the Wolves in regard to Sydney teams. Tassie stands alone anyway.

Funnily enough the Jets are 5th for away crowds (11187). Must be that the opposition fans know that 3 points are likely....

I was merely pointing out that you stated that City and SFC etc only fill their grounds on derby day, then went on to state that adding another team from these areas would be madness.? It isn't exactly rocket science.

[Premy]

Just by curiosity, are FIFA and CONCACAF also pressing the MLS to introduce promotion / relegation?

In short yes.
However it's a little different to our situation. The MLS is an independent organization from US Soccer and US Soccer already partly complies. It's divisional Pyramid is already set and pro/rel is already implemented throughout some of it divisions.

[Nou Camp]

Umm what? Sydney's crowds have been low enough to have the press lamenting the poor numbers when they are leading the competition and City's crowds aren't much better than ours
Average HOME crowds this season are
MV 23588
WSW 19640
SFC 16581
Roar 14681
City 10866
Glory 10570
Reds 10160
Jets 8583
Gypsies 7532 (probably all free tickets)
Nix 6308 plus sheep

Source: http://www.worldfootball.net


I haven't got the time to start looking at the crowd vs population equation but the big city teams need to do better.

As I said, neither SFC or City go anywhere near filling their grounds. Adding another team into either market will not improve that situation. New markets please. Geelong is big enough and distant enough to create its own team without affecting the Melbourne teams too much. Same would apply to the Wolves in regard to Sydney teams. Tassie stands alone anyway.

Funnily enough the Jets are 5th for away crowds (11187). Must be that the opposition fans know that 3 points are likely....

how do those crowds look compared to 5 years ago? anyone

[Jeterpool]

how do those crowds look compared to 5 years ago? anyone

http://www.newcastlefootball.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1406&d=1488861579

That's for the Jets only

1406

[Jetmaster]

Regions will succeed if FFA put the work in...but they dont. When the cap was truly even us and the Coasties were ss good as the others on and off the field.

I've said it before....if somehow we had the backing that the Smurfs or City had and those squads, what crowds do you think we would get? Better than them I don't doubt.

If overseas investors come looking they will be funnelled to the main centres by FFA. For corporate purposes not football purposes.

[MFKS]

Regions will succeed if FFA put the work in...but they dont. When the cap was truly even us and the Coasties were ss good as the others on and off the field.

I've said it before....if somehow we had the backing that the Smurfs or City had and those squads, what crowds do you think we would get? Better than them I don't doubt.

If overseas investors come looking they will be funnelled to the main centres by FFA. For corporate purposes not football purposes.

But that the FFA fault

A Man City like investment into the Jets would have achieved more than it did at Heart

Other thing is an overseas investor isn't going to come in and seriously look at buying a HAL club when the rewards are so limited and the expenses basically falling on the Owners to pick up the bill

[MFKS]

I should clarify my statement. They will abolish the salary cap - but will establish a minimum spend to prevent what you posted from happening.
Its the max spend cap that will effectively be abolished.

I don't see the Max spend being abolished either.

It is currently giving the Melbourne and Sydney teams a distinct advantage over the other 6 teams

The other 6 teams don't have the financial firepower to compete with them

The 6 ain't going to want the 4 getting to spend more

And the 4 will be happy to keep the status quo as it will further widen the gap to the rest over time.


The salary cap will stay until the clubs are making excessive cash or we have a pile of EPL style crazy investment and it is redundant

[MonkeyKplunk]

Would we be far better off with a 20 team competition and a lot more games in a shorter space, more like the EPL?

[Premy]

Boutique Stadia in the heart of the CBD is what we need, white elephants in surrounding suburbs are a thing of yesterday.
Make game days about the match day experience with bars and restaurants in the CBD packed full of supports leading up to the game. 33,000 capacity stadia is far to big for us, create the demand for tickets anything over 18,000 is to big. If people miss out on tickets so what sold out packed stadia will create a much better atmosphere that people will want to keep coming back to.

[Jetmaster]

I think we all know that but again its about money. Doubt we'll see boutique stadia for all in my lifetime.

[The Dunster]

If we wish to be a member of those federations we must comply to the rules they set.
Much the same as FFA governing the rules of what it's member federations and clubs have to adhere to.

Sure we can run our own race, however that would mean that we can't participate in little tournaments like the Asian Cup and World Cup.

Ok. But what is the reasoning from the AFC and FIFA with respect to a 2nd tier / relegation being required ? Do they even have a reason ?

[belchardo]

http://www.newcastlefootball.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1406&d=1488861579

That's for the Jets only

1406

You know what Jeterpool, stats the best graph I've ever seen on here.

[hawk]

Its the max spend cap that will effectively be abolished.

This will be massively faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarked. We will never win again and when relo comes in we'll be in 2nds.

Also if derbies are the only thing that fills Syd stads then a 3rd team (up the shire) will be ideal for the suits that run the game

[plague]

Listen, the double-eff-aye have a plan and its a good one.

1. Get lots of capital city teams to give the most exposure, fan/corporate support and TV revenue.
2. Get a couple of mong teams like us and the gypos that no one cares about and don't move the needle from a financial perspective.
3. Get to 14/16 teams.
4. Set up div 2 featuring all the mong teams that people think matter like Canberra/Gong/Geelong etc and get them to go at it.
5. One team relegated every year (always us or the gypos) and one mong team up, that immediately goes back down the next year.
6. Standard is so poor that capital city teams remain in the top flight every year to maximise TV deal and corporate/fan support.
7. If by the grace of Griff a mong team makes a run they get the feel good factor of a Lester type story to boost interest.
8. ?????????
9. Profit.

[Jardelsimage]

Boutique Stadia in the heart of the CBD is what we need, white elephants in surrounding suburbs are a thing of yesterday.
Make game days about the match day experience with bars and restaurants in the CBD packed full of supports leading up to the game. 33,000 capacity stadia is far to big for us, create the demand for tickets anything over 18,000 is to big. If people miss out on tickets so what sold out packed stadia will create a much better atmosphere that people will want to keep coming back to.

we could build it in the middle of the supercars track.

[hawk]

we could build it in the middle of the supercars track.

nothing beats 2 sports at once :lulzturtle:

[plague]

we could build it in the middle of the supercars track.

Football missed a golden chance not getting involved in the No#1 sorts ground redevelopment.

Once the big dumb loud fast cars take over the city no one will bat an eyelid at the stinky ass Jets.

[belchardo]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/04/victorian-version-of-wanderers-gets-backing-for-a-league-expansion-bid

we gots a new playa...(i think)

[StannyCFCJET]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/04/victorian-version-of-wanderers-gets-backing-for-a-league-expansion-bid

we gots a new playa...(i think)

???

[Grimario]

???

In the expansion saga. Pay attention.

[De-Champ]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/04/victorian-version-of-wanderers-gets-backing-for-a-league-expansion-bid

we gots a new playa...(i think)

Its the same mob that lost out to Heart when they (Heart) got the nod, or at least complained that they had so many juniors in the area, population blah blah blah.

[westjet]

Brisbane City in the race
http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/aleague-expansion-news-brisbane-city-launch-official-bid-to-enter-aleague/news-story/5b8d8681b3df284ffde94ed8eba18bb1

[MFKS]

Yes what a race it is when the FFA ain't even close to being interested

High time some of these proposition either shut up until it on the table or actually deliver the FFA are compelling proposal of concrete cash so they can't say no


This rhetoric and BS every few months about this area or that area being HAL ready is a joke
FFS Newy isn't even HAL ready and we have won the ****ing thing

[Jetmaster]

Brisbane City in the race
http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/aleague-expansion-news-brisbane-city-launch-official-bid-to-enter-aleague/news-story/5b8d8681b3df284ffde94ed8eba18bb1

Pfft - they're Italian and always will be. Hence the Roman branding.

May as well let Marconi in.

[MFKS]

Pfft - they're Italian and always will be. Hence the Roman branding.

May as well let Marconi in.

Wish the ****wits at FFA would just let the ethnics back in

I really think these ****s running the game have just lost the plot with what they are doing with the HAL

Don't let the ethnics in but Roar have how much Dutch heritage??
Smurfs are Sydney City reincarnation

So why can't the Italians Greeks Send Croats or Pakis have a team ??

Like they have given the Gypos a team and they are a different species altogether

[hawk]

Wish the ****wits at FFA would just let the ethnics back in


no

[plague]

Focus group and corporate America hate the efnikcs.


More Anglos please

[hawk]

Focus group and corporate America hate the efnikcs.


More Anglos please

dont start this sh1t

[belchardo]

http://www.theroar.com.au/2018/02/16/a-league-to-expand-in-2019/

apparently we are doing this.

summary:
- 2 new teams
- introduced for/by the 2019/20 season
- more details to come next month
- decision by the end of this year on the teams

i'll believe it when i see it.

[belchardo]

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/act-sport/canberras-aleague-franchise-hopes-boosted-as-ffa-approve-expansion-20180216-h0w7ry.html

canberra on the prowl for one of the spots

[Jetmaster]

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/act-sport/canberras-aleague-franchise-hopes-boosted-as-ffa-approve-expansion-20180216-h0w7ry.html

canberra on the prowl for one of the spots

Pfft - Sydney and Melbourne v 3.0 each.

[380]

Another Melb or Sydney based side will only result in a shifting of sand. But knowing Gallop and his uncanny knack of always delivering decisions based on 99% incompetence Sydney or Melb it will be.

With Gallop steering the ship whats the point in a rudder, There is a bumper sticker right there.

[Wilso8948]

Another Melb or Sydney based side will only result in a shifting of sand. But knowing Gallop and his uncanny knack of always delivering decisions based on 99% incompetence Sydney or Melb it will be.

With Gallop steering the ship whats the point in a rudder, There is a bumper sticker right there.
Can you really blame them? Canberra gets games and has piss poor showing. The regionals just don't stack up. We are most certainly an exception. Anyone who is interested in expansion needs to look at 30 year population predictions city by city. You'll understand why Gallop and co are looking where they are.

[380]

Gallop wants some hybrid of the St George , Sutherland Shire and Wollongong outfit. I can tell you with absolute certainty after living in the Gong for 21yrs not one potential Wolves supporter has any kindred allegiance to anything shire related and having spent many years working in Taren point the feeling toward anything south of Waterfall is quite mutual. On top of that throw in the lack of love between the Shire and St George area Gallop is dead set pulling his own pud on this one.

As for a third Melb team , how many times do the seagulls outnumber Heart fans ?.

[belchardo]

Canberra gets games and has piss poor showing.

so you got any evidence for that claim, or just jumping to conclusions? don't forget, every team that has come here has not been a Canberra team.

30 year prediction for the canberra population, just under 600,000 https://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/demography/projections/act/total

and that's just the ACT. population projections for the towns surrounding are a bit harder to get, but Queanbeyan will be about 60,000 by then, Goulburn will probably be around 40,000, Yass around 15,000, plus growth in a number of smaller towns probably contributing another 40,000. all of these are closer (in travel time) than say, singleton to Newcastle.

you can't keep fishing in the same pond and wonder why you catch less fish.

[MFKS]

Regardless of where these two teams are coming from the FFA need shooting for this

This should actually be a big deal and a great promotional aspect to get media attention and get people excited about the League and the future


The dumb ****s do it on a Friday with little fan fare and it lost amongst the weekend sport


And they wonder why the game is struggling when the ****wits running it shoot thermselves in the foot not getting maximum media coverage of news about the game

[380]

Regardless of where these two teams are coming from the FFA need shooting for this

This should actually be a big deal and a great promotional aspect to get media attention and get people excited about the League and the future


The dumb ****s do it on a Friday with little fan fare and it lost amongst the weekend sport


And they wonder why the game is struggling when the ****wits running it shoot thermselves in the foot not getting maximum media coverage of news about the game

Ditto re management. I once worked for a company and had a really great relationship ( no not a Barnaby type ) with the MD and every time the bloke wanted a reality check from the office in Melb he would hop on a flight and come ride shotgun for a few days. He had experience in the States and all over Europe and he said to me once on one of these visits that blokes in his position are good for about 4-5 yrs then it is time to move on and freshen up so both parties can have a breath of fresh air and enthusiasm. Sorry for the drawn out post but IMO David Gallop is well and truly at this point in his tenure at the FFA.

But knowing how these types operate Irish O Rourke will be probably be the fall guy for Gallop and Lowy Jnr's incompetence

[Couscous]

I will support Canberra United. It will be my second team, and I will attend some games, but in my Jets shirt.

[boz-monaut]

didn't you used to support Gold Coast in the same sort of manner?

[Jetmaster]

didn't you used to support Gold Coast in the same sort of manner?

Melbourne Victory when he first came on here....ultimate plastic.

[boz-monaut]

what I was actually doing there was making a reference to this other bloke, snaggletooth, who used to be a fan of the Jets and Gold Coast

[WolfMan]

Timing of this is superb. A vain attempt at halting the very real dissection of failures at head office.

“More details” will be - “it’s not the right time, we need to focus on removing referees and adjudicating entirely from VAR position”

[belchardo]

bit more on canberra, it has direct flights between every current a-league team bar central coast (and nobody flies there).

[plague]

bit more on canberra, it has direct flights between every current a-league team bar central coast (and nobody flies there).

Canberra is dope and I’ll support them.

May even make Plague Jnr wear their kit.

[hawk]

A-League bidders Southern Expansion have signed a memorandum of understanding with NRL club Cronulla to stage some of their home matches at Southern Cross Group Stadium.
Sharks chairman Dino Mezzatesta, meanwhile, has also pledged the club's "full support" to Southern Expansion's bid.
Former NSW premier Morris Iemma, who has succeeded the late Les Murray as Southern Expansion's chairman, welcomed the cross-code agreement.


what a sh1t scenario. Yeah share a ground but Go alone or fk orf

[380]

This whole hybrid bits of Sutherland the St George area and Wollongong Southern proposal is a load of shite but sadly Gallop played his hand on this proposal long ago. Tis the worst proposal of all but will get up because Gallop will want the Chinese ownership and the stadium they are promising to build around Loftus. They will be lucky to pull a home crowd of 5-6k because nobody will be able to identify with it as there own town team IMO.

Just bring back the Wolves and Canberra in there own right and lets get on with it FFS.

[hawk]

This whole hybrid bits of Sutherland the St George area and Wollongong Southern proposal is a load of shite but sadly Gallop played his hand on this proposal long ago. Tis the worst proposal of all but will get up because Gallop will want the Chinese ownership and the stadium they are promising to build around Loftus. They will be lucky to pull a home crowd of 5-6k because nobody will be able to identify with it as there own town team IMO.

Just bring back the Wolves and Canberra in there own right and lets get on with it FFS.

They will sell their mother to get another Derby cause they will fill the stadiums on those days

[Jetmaster]

They will sell their mother to get another Derby cause they will fill the stadiums on those days

The novelty value has gone from the current derby. No sell out for a while now.

[hawk]

The novelty value has gone from the current derby. No sell out for a while now.

new team new novelty, for a while anyway

[belchardo]

so we've gone past March now, has anybody seen anything about the formal announcement on criteria etc that FFA were supposed to release in March?

[Couscous]

Yes, we have. You will find the FFA's official Invitation for Expression of Interest (https://www.a-league.com.au/sites/aleague/files/2018-03/FINAL%20-%20Invitation%20for%20EOI%20-%20Hyundai%20A-League%20Expansion%20-%2029.03.18.pdf) at this link.

Well done to Geoff Gallop and everyone else at the FFA for being transparent about this, for releasing their time table and for opening themselves to scrutiny.

https://i.imgur.com/kwxqdC5.jpg

[Couscous]

(In case you don't want to open the PDF: )

EVALUATION CRITERIA

Vision:
The extent to which the Respondent demonstrates:

a compelling vision for the proposed club, including the ability to contribute positively to the growth of the A-League and football in Australia;
an understanding of the football landscape in Australia; and
the attitudes, ethics and mindset to underpin a successful long-term collaborative relationship with football stakeholders, including the fans, member federation, clubs, government and local communities in the Territory
History and Culture:
The extent to which the Respondent demonstrates an understanding and appreciation of the history and culture of football in Australia and in the Territory, including clubs and players, national team representation and any participation or connection with that history and culture.

Financial Capacity:
Existing financial strength or demonstration of the ability to raise finance sufficient to acquire the right to participate in the A-League and ensure the sustainable participation that contributes to the growth of the A-League.

Capability and Experience:
The extent to which the Respondent demonstrates the capability and experience to operate a professional football club.

Other:
Such additional criteria as FFA may determine are in the best interests of football in Australia.

[380]

Other, isn't that the part that Gallop struggles with as part of his job description ?. No way in hell can this bloke demonstrate how he has added value to the game in this country in his role at FFA.

If Gallop had any idea what was in the best interest of the game he would have already made the announcement that he and Ref's boss Ben Wilson would not be in there respective roles for next season. The game can't support a 10 team comp with another season of indecisive management and sub standard officiating let alone hoping to sustain 12.

Sponsors and corporate partners won't want to be financially supporting a dogs breakfast. I am all for expansion but under current FFA management the shot in the arm will be nothing more than a short lived sugar hit.

[belchardo]

thanks couscous.

if i was a potential tenderer, "Other" is a category that would scare the crap out of me. it screams at me that it doesn't matter how good/deserving your application may be, if you don't fit our pre-determined thoughts, then you won't get in.

[380]

thanks couscous.

if i was a potential tenderer, "Other" is a category that would scare the crap out of me. it screams at me that it doesn't matter how good/deserving your application may be, if you don't fit our pre-determined thoughts, then you won't get in.

Absolutely this. Gallop the incompetent already played his cards as to his preference and as a result and to avoid future claims of bias this alone should see him removed from the decision making process.

[Hunter403]

Expansion: great
Promotion and relegation: worried what happens should the Jets, Scum or other "small" team come last and get replaced by another capital city team. Jets would die if relegated to NPL.

[Mark325]

Expansion: great
Promotion and relegation: worried what happens should the Jets, Scum or other "small" team come last and get replaced by another capital city team. Jets would die if relegated to NPL.

I agree with this, expansion is much more important before we focus on promotion and relegation.

[Couscous]

if i was a potential tenderer, "Other" is a category that would scare the crap out of me. it screams at me that it doesn't matter how good/deserving your application may be, if you don't fit our pre-determined thoughts, then you won't get in.

In some government tenders, they list the percentage weighting that each criterion has on the final evaluation.

That'd be going overboard here, though. For a decision like this, discretion is always going to play a biggish part. I'm okay with that ... though I worry about the FFA's competence/motives.

[hawk]

Expansion: great
Promotion and relegation: worried what happens should the Jets, Scum or other "small" team come last and get replaced by another capital city team. Jets would die if relegated to NPL.

you mean 2nd division. We'll smash that comp...occasionally

[Jetmaster]

you mean 2nd division. We'll smash that comp...occasionally

Correct...there has to be a professional second tier before promotion/relegation comes in.

Will be just like our English namesakes....up and down like the proverbial toilet seat.

[MonkeyKplunk]

Correct...there has to be a professional second tier before promotion/relegation comes in.

Will be just like our English namesakes....up and down like the proverbial toilet seat.

Absolutely.
The clubs in the NPL stream who are baying for a professional second tier need to be able to show that the second tier is financially feasible within the country first.
I don't think a lot of them truly understand the amount of money it would take to just travel with squads around the country every weekend. This is Australia, shit ain't cheap.

I'd rather see NPL play as normal through winter and then the winners of each member federation, instead of playing a meaningless "finals series", play a home and away comp in line with HAL during all or part of Summer.
This would actually push them to get their development streams in order, and build a strong second tier competition before we talk about Promotion/Relegation.

[cam]

Absolutely.
The clubs in the NPL stream who are baying for a professional second tier need to be able to show that the second tier is financially feasible within the country first.
I don't think a lot of them truly understand the amount of money it would take to just travel with squads around the country every weekend. This is Australia, shit ain't cheap.

I'd rather see NPL play as normal through winter and then the winners of each member federation, instead of playing a meaningless "finals series", play a home and away comp in line with HAL during all or part of Summer.
This would actually push them to get their development streams in order, and build a strong second tier competition before we talk about Promotion/Relegation.

I really like this idea, wouldn't the NPL players get burnt out playing 3/4 of the year though?

[MonkeyKplunk]

I really like this idea, wouldn't the NPL players get burnt out playing 3/4 of the year though?

There is a risk of that, but every year people carry on about NPL players not getting picked up by HAL teams and if they want to push that more and be considered to be professional rather than semi then it's a risk they need to take.
Also, if any of them were to make a move to Europe they'd be playing/hard training for about that amount of time anyway.

[Premy]

Second Division.
http://www.dscribe.net.au/2018/04/09/young-footballers-set-to-benefit-from-proposed-football-second-division/

[hawk]

have to be east coast for cheap travel

[plague]

Why is there this notion that its gotta be cost neutral, or even cost effective to run a club.

****spoiler alert**** running 'most' sporting clubs across the globe in all sports at all levels is a loss making exercise.

All we need is a bunch of ego fueled rich assholes to take on these project 2nd tier clubs and build them into something worthy (both on and off field) of entering the top flight comp.

Now, before you go bringing up the Tinkler and Palmer examples, let me remind you that they ultimately rebelled due to not having any power within the sport despite providing the money.

So give them a comp, give them the power (like the major US sports) and promise them promotion in 2, 5 or 10 years. Then tell the A-league teams relegation is happening and give them the power they need and watch them get their houses in order.

The FFA need to realise that with no money, and therefore no real power, that the quicker they get out of the way the quicker the sport can naturally evolve. Their bullshit is holding it all back.

[hawk]

Why is there this notion that its gotta be cost neutral, or even cost effective to run a club.
****spoiler alert**** running 'most' sporting clubs across the globe in all sports at all levels is a loss making exercise.
All we need is a bunch of ego fueled rich assholes to take on these project 2nd tier clubs and build them into something worthy (both on and off field) of entering the top flight comp.

We cant even get rich knobs to buy top flight let alone sloppy 2nds. low cost or will not happen

[plague]

We cant even get rich knobs to buy top flight let alone sloppy 2nds. low cost or will not happen

Some light bulb salesman brought the stinking Jets.

Anything is possible.
FFA just gotta give them a reason to do so.

[belchardo]

couple of articles on the canberra bid

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/soccer/canberra-a-league-bid-to-be-modeled-on-german-bundesliga-licence-20180516-p4zflc.html

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/soccer/how-canberra-s-a-league-bid-can-boost-plans-for-a-new-civic-stadium-20180515-p4zfck.html

Canberra's bid will be in on the 24th, and
The FFA will shortlist applicants in June before entering the final stages of submissions, with an announcement on the successful bids to be made by October 31.

[Couscous]

The Canberra bid will flop. The head is aloof and doing nothing to market it. The big clubs aren't involved, nor is Capital Football. What a shame.

[Jeterpool]

The Canberra bid will flop. The head is aloof and doing nothing to market it. The big clubs aren't involved, nor is Capital Football. What a shame.

What are you basing that on?

[Couscous]

What are you basing that on?

I live in Canberra, I play football here, and no one seems to know anything about it.

It's a massive contrast to the previous, excellent bid, led by a well-known executive, which had the support of everyone from the government down and even had 2000+ paid-up members ($200 each). The FFA were utter fools for turning their noses at them.

[Jeterpool]

I live in Canberra, I play football here, and no one seems to know anything about it.

It's a massive contrast to the previous, excellent bid, led by a well-known executive, which had the support of everyone from the government down and even had 2000+ paid-up members ($200 each). The FFA were utter fools for turning their noses at them.

Cheers. Interesting perspective.

Are they keeping their powder dry until they get a bit more certainty from FFA? Not investing too much because of past experiences?

[380]

I live in Canberra, I play football here, and no one seems to know anything about it.

It's a massive contrast to the previous, excellent bid, led by a well-known executive, which had the support of everyone from the government down and even had 2000+ paid-up members ($200 each). The FFA were utter fools for turning their noses at them.



Correct me if i am wrong but i thought Capitol Football in % terms relevant to population had the highest number of registered female competitors in the land.

That is really unfortunate what you are saying and given those registered numbers would seem a real opportunity lost.

[Jeterpool]

Correct me if i am wrong but i thought Capitol Football in % terms relevant to population had the highest number of registered female competitors in the land.

That is really unfortunate what you are saying and given those registered numbers would seem a real opportunity lost.

I'd love a road trip to Canberra for a game. To the 'gong for that matter too.

[Bremsstrahlung]

How can a board that is almost out of a job, (is this still happening even, or have fifa focussed on the World Cup now?) make this decision that will have huge ramifications on the future of the league and respective clubs.
Unless bid details are made public and assessed independently.

[Jeterpool]

How can a board that is almost out of a job, (is this still happening even, or have fifa focussed on the World Cup now?) make this decision that will have huge ramifications on the future of the league and respective clubs.
Unless bid details are made public and assessed independently.

Isn't that why they brought in Deloittes?

[belchardo]

I'd love a road trip to Canberra for a game. To the 'gong for that matter too.

can't get fireworks anymore. thought i'd make that clear.

[belchardo]

I live in Canberra, I play football here, and no one seems to know anything about it.

It's a massive contrast to the previous, excellent bid, led by a well-known executive, which had the support of everyone from the government down and even had 2000+ paid-up members ($200 each). The FFA were utter fools for turning their noses at them.

i'm less connected to the local football world down here, so i'll take your word on that one.

however, if the previous method didn't work, maybe this way will work. i don't think they are making enough noise about building from the w-league foundation though.

[380]

I'd love a road trip to Canberra for a game. To the 'gong for that matter too.


Yes a trip to god's country would be nice. I would even go to to Canberra.

[plague]

If they play at Manuka yeah I'll go, ain't trekking out to the AIS though.

[Couscous]

These are the only publicly available datasets on boys and girls' participation rates by state and territory. They are from an Australian Bureau of Statistics survey in 2012. The Australian Sports Commission has more recent data but doesn't provide full public access to it.

These data represent participation in organised football only.

https://i.imgur.com/12bctOU.png

https://i.imgur.com/JWdoPVP.png

There are no data for indoor football for Victoria and the NT.

[Couscous]

By the way, GVE left Canberra late last year :(

[380]

Do i get my gold star now Gary or do i get to run laps ?.

[boz-monaut]

These are the only publicly available datasets on boys and girls' participation rates by state and territory. They are from an Australian Bureau of Statistics survey in 2012. The Australian Sports Commission has more recent data but doesn't provide full public access to it.

These data represent participation in organised football only.

https://i.imgur.com/12bctOU.png

https://i.imgur.com/JWdoPVP.png

There are no data for indoor football for Victoria and the NT.

where's the data for Northern NSW?

also shows how Victoria shouldn't get any more teams, NNSW has more players than they do, we deserve a second team, preferably playing out of Maitland

imagine the Hunter derby - the train ride to Maitland would be immense

makes far more sense than Tasmania or NT

[belchardo]

If they play at Manuka yeah I'll go, ain't trekking out to the AIS though.

:rof:

from king o'malleys you go to the civic hotel, then onto bentspoke brewery. after a couple there (craft beer, so bring your gold ingots) you move on to the RUC at turner, and then on to the duxton. you do have a bit of a hike from there to the stadium, but only about 600m further than doing the premier to the stadium. can go to stanley's near the stadium if you're running early.

if you go to manuka, it's pretty much 5km without a single drinking establishment to be found (ya gotta go through the parliamentary triangle).

or you just get on one of the free buses that they put on from the city centre to whichever stadium has a game on. if they both have a game, they even throw in a bus from manuka to GIO to get between the games.

[plague]

if you go to manuka, it's pretty much 5km without a single drinking establishment to be found (ya gotta go through the parliamentary triangle).


huh?

last time i was there i stayed in a dope hotel out one window was manuka the other window was the shadiest of shady pubs. so of course i went for a look.
place was great. everyone was feral as. my kind of people. most had their own teeth.

[plague]

Kingston hotel.

if you havent been there for a coldie and a punch on Belchardo then you havent lived.

perfect Jets pregame shannanigans.

plus Trevillian quay is good for the posh lot like Hawk.

****ing magpies though. geez. now theres a royal commission that needs to be had.

[belchardo]

Kingston hotel.

if you havent been there for a coldie and a punch on Belchardo then you havent lived.

perfect Jets pregame shannanigans.

plus Trevillian quay is good for the posh lot like Hawk.

****ing magpies though. geez. now theres a royal commission that needs to be had.

have been there many a time. have managed to avoid the fights though.

was working on the assumption you'd be staying in the city.

[belchardo]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/may/20/a-league-brisbane-strikers-withdraw-expansion-bid-amid-financial-concerns

brisbane strikers out

[MonkeyKplunk]

These are the only publicly available datasets on boys and girls' participation rates by state and territory. They are from an Australian Bureau of Statistics survey in 2012. The Australian Sports Commission has more recent data but doesn't provide full public access to it.

These data represent participation in organised football only.

https://i.imgur.com/12bctOU.png

https://i.imgur.com/JWdoPVP.png

There are no data for indoor football for Victoria and the NT.

This data clearly shows that Victoria are kidding themselves if they think they deserve another team.
Maybe they should focus more energy into getting the participation rates up since they seem to claim they have the largest NPL clubs in the Country.

It also shows why ACT and Tasmania bids would be so successful if you apply the logic for clubs growing their own Junior elite schemes.

[belchardo]

This data clearly shows that Victoria are kidding themselves if they think they deserve another team.
Maybe they should focus more energy into getting the participation rates up since they seem to claim they have the largest NPL clubs in the Country.

It also shows why ACT and Tasmania bids would be so successful if you apply the logic for clubs growing their own Junior elite schemes.

well, yes and no. i assume the %ages shown are the proportion of the state population that plays football. therefore, Victoria's 15% = just under 1,000,000 against Tasmania's total population of 520K or ACT's 410K. however, if you take into account the two Vic teams already, 1 team per 500K would justify the ACT/Tas inclusion.

[plague]

was working on the assumption you'd be staying in the city.

Wait.

So where in Canberra is considered 'in the city'?

Is Manuka the burbs?

For some reason this genuinely interests me.

[belchardo]

Wait.

So where in Canberra is considered 'in the city'?

Is Manuka the burbs?

For some reason this genuinely interests me.

Civic and Acton are (in my opinion anyway) the city. Kingston is in the inner south - it cannot be considered in the city as there's a dirty great big lake in between the two. also, it shouldn't take an hour to get from the city to anywhere after 10pm, and having done that walk many a time because the buses have stopped running, it bloody well does!

[Hunter403]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/may/20/a-league-brisbane-strikers-withdraw-expansion-bid-amid-financial-concerns

brisbane strikers out

Well that saves on starting a thread!