The A-League Expansion Thread

[plague]

Anarcho-capitalism

What does a fear of spiders have to do with football mate?

[Jeterpool]

What does a fear of spiders have to do with football mate?

Guus got it vs Uruguay with Kalac, mate.

[Couscous]

... Glebe, Newtown, and others have failed to ever recover after going down a division.

Yet Newtown lives on in our culture. Indeed it's experiencing a revival, thanks in part to The Teacher's Pet podcast and its investigation of a former Jets player.

[The Dunster]

Capitalism is how football all over the planet works

Going to a capitalism model will see many great things

Wages reduced to appropriate levels
Opportunity for all
Realistic Costs

Then the market can regulate

This falsely creasted Communist league we have is broken because of its inherent structural limitations

If clubs go belly.up under a new model it no different than Con Tinkler Fury NZ Knights and every other failed cllub whether in Oz or O/S


Time to take the training wheels off our game and sink or swim

You do realise that the Spanish government has been bankrolling Real Madrid and Barcelona for years.
Not only in the form of tax breaks specific to them and a few other select clubs but also with respect to gifting them state sponsored aid as well.

[plague]

Guus got it vs Uruguay with Kalac, mate.

As soon as I hit 'post' I sat with fingers crossed that someone would go there. And you did. Well in (as always) son.

[MFKS]

You do realise that the Spanish government has been bankrolling Real Madrid and Barcelona for years.
Not only in the form of tax breaks specific to them and a few other select clubs but also with respect to gifting them state sponsored aid as well.

So a couple of exampled where government helps clubs are just that a couple

Reality is regardless of whether it is the NBN here in Newy or the EPL club football 8s capitalism in nature every where

Yet for some reason our cunce of an FFA wont let us have it at HAL level as they want to use this communist model to restrict entrance into the comp and to protect the extortion PFA do with non market value salaries found in the HAL

[The Dunster]

So a couple of exampled where government helps clubs are just that a couple

Reality is regardless of whether it is the NBN here in Newy or the EPL club football 8s capitalism in nature every where

Yet for some reason our cunce of an FFA wont let us have it at HAL level as they want to use this communist model to restrict entrance into the comp and to protect the extortion PFA do with non market value salaries found in the HAL

Can you name an owner of a major football club anywhere in the world that's not a socialist ? I can't think of any.
The main reason is that in a free market environment long run profits equal zero.
I can't imagine the rich wanting to sign up to be a member of that system.

[turbojetfireV8]

Saw this one on FB
https://www.austfootball.com/a-league/wellington-phoenix/phoenix-chairman-says-a-league-ready-for-second-team-in-new-zealand

[belchardo]

Saw this one on FB
https://www.austfootball.com/a-league/wellington-phoenix/phoenix-chairman-says-a-league-ready-for-second-team-in-new-zealand

comedy gold. no thanks, we'll have expansion in australia thanks.

[plague]

Saw this one on FB
https://www.austfootball.com/a-league/wellington-phoenix/phoenix-chairman-says-a-league-ready-for-second-team-in-new-zealand

Double Eff Aye already announced that the 2nd New Zealand team will be based in either Sydney or Melbourne.

[belchardo]

Double Eff Aye already announced that the 2nd New Zealand team will be based in either Sydney or Melbourne.

couldn't convince fox sports that auckland was "eastern Sydney".

[Jeterpool]

But wouldn't this constitute another Derby? That's criteria 1

[belchardo]

But wouldn't this constitute another Derby? That's criteria 1

i have noticed on the fox podcasts that they all still refer to western united as "western melbourne"

[Jetmaster]

Northern Sydney Mariners anyone?

[Hunter403]

Northern Sydney Mariners anyone?

If you thought SFC squealed like a stuck pig with the southern city option was floated, it would be as loud or louder with this idea.

However, Fox would love it! 4 Sydney teams, Derby, derby derby!!!!

[turbojetfireV8]

Northern Sydney Mariners anyone?

reckon that is probably the only thing that will save the c***s, prob play twice a season at Gashford as a token, will stab their gypo supporters in the heart to see it, just hope we aren't next though...

[mic22]

reckon that is probably the only thing that will save the c***s, prob play twice a season at Gashford as a token, will stab their gypo supporters in the heart to see it, just hope we aren't next though...

Northern Northern Sydney Jets

[evolution]

Northern Sydney Mariners anyone?

Didn't they try this without actually saying it when Charlesworth first took over? I remember them taking a couple of games to North Sydney Oval which did f*ck all to help their attendances and the FFA (probably at the request of Sydney FC) put an end to it pretty quickly.

[Jetmaster]

Didn't they try this without actually saying it when Charlesworth first took over? I remember them taking a couple of games to North Sydney Oval which did f*ck all to help their attendances and the FFA (probably at the request of Sydney FC) put an end to it pretty quickly.

Yeah, there were problems with the pitch etc

As long as the Mariners exist it won't die - not until they sell up and move somewhere else. SFC can whinge all they want - they don't have that many fans. I've been on a Northern line train game day - a couple of Smurfs here and there.

[evolution]

As long as the Mariners exist it won't die - not until they sell up and move somewhere else.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - surely the league and society in general would be better off with a Canberra team than a Gosford one.

Take the license, burn all records of the Mariners ever existing and piss on the ashes, give said licence to Canberra for them to start fresh with. It's win-win for all concerned.

[The Dunster]

There's never been enough support for the Mariners at Gosford. Didn't matter where they were on the table home support was always lacking other than school holidays when there was an influx of visitors to the area.

[plague]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - surely the league and society in general would be better off with a Canberra team than a Gosford one.

Take the license, burn all records of the Mariners ever existing and piss on the ashes, give said licence to Canberra for them to start fresh with. It's win-win for all concerned.

i mean, we dont necessarily 'need' to have Canberra to get rid of the gypos.
Just take a match, spark it up and set that hell hole on fire.


sure sure, if something good comes of it thats dope, but lets not lose focus here. **** the gypos.

[belchardo]

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/20/ffa-recommends-introduction-of-second-division-in-two-years/

New frontiers coming boys.

#forever7th #2nddiv

[Couscous]

Finally, a Canberra A2-League team.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Does anybody else think a 2nd division sounds good on paper, but fears Newcastle will fail to have a team within a decade of implementation and long term could be detrimental to a "national" league.

[plague]

but fears Newcastle will fail to have a team within a decade of implementation and long term could be detrimental to a "national" league.

huh?

The Hellas Magical Jaffas will be a boss team to go watch at Myer Park on a lazy sunday arvo take on the Bonnyrigg XXXXX* Eagles.

Already have a Jaffas shaped hat on order.






*sorry they had to change their name because it was too racess for the Double Eff Aye.

[The Dunster]

Does anybody else think a 2nd division sounds good on paper, but fears Newcastle will fail to have a team within a decade of implementation and long term could be detrimental to a "national" league.

It's difficult enough to gain sponsorship / corporate interest in a first tier national competition in Australia - for a 2nd tier competition it's going to be near impossible.
I think short term a 2nd division team in a big city will get some backing if they look capable of breaking into the 1st tier. But ultimately, I think those outside of the big cities will be too much of a risk for potential sponsors - which will ultimately make opportunities to move up a division difficult.
The weaker teams in the top tier will also struggle to get sponsorship as well. But with a 2nd tier to fall into they become an even higher risk prospect to backers / investors[sic]. That being the case, I can see the bottom of the 1st tier teams being more cash starved than they are now.
At best 2nd tier teams will ultimately be relying on first tier teams to fail for them to enter the top tier - and I can see the same teams going back and forth assuming they don't simply fold from investing too much in a lost cause.
The only ones to benefit will be the big city teams until of course the entire comp becomes a complete joke and nobody wants to watch it - much like the NSL.

I honestly can't see the A-league lasting another 15 years.

[The Dunster]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - surely the league and society in general would be better off with a Canberra team than a Gosford one.

Take the license, burn all records of the Mariners ever existing and piss on the ashes, give said licence to Canberra for them to start fresh with. It's win-win for all concerned.

Canberra failed in the past to attract crowds why do you think this time would be any different ?

[londonboy]

https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/06/20/ffa-recommends-introduction-of-second-division-in-two-years/

New frontiers coming boys.

#forever7th #2nddiv


https://i.nextmedia.com.au/Assets/20190620043849_National_Second_Division_Working_Gr oup_white_paper_June_2019.pdf

Here's the White Paper for anyone interested. The recommendations suggest second division teams stadiums "should include a minimum capacity of 5,000 and a maximum capacity of 15,000 and provide the best opportunity for clubs to provide a good atmosphere within the stadium". Anyone know of stadia in the Newcastle area that would fit this bill? It sounds like a mightily expensive exercise for anyone wanting to meet the criteria. Who is going to pay for this???

[plague]

How good is it that the Double Eff Aye dragged its feet for 15 years on this then the minute they have to transfer power of the comp over to the owners, they pop up with, "heres your comp, and oh, we gonna start relegating the **** out of y'all".

Such a shitshow, full of petty creatures hell bent on doing anything except the best thing for the game.

Clowns.

[plague]

Anyone know of stadia in the Newcastle area that would fit this bill? It sounds like a mightily expensive exercise for anyone wanting to meet the criteria. Who is going to pay for this???

No#2 Sportsground would be perfect.
But that would probably require some sort of relationship between local football clubs, NCC and Newcastle Rugby and well, good luck with all that.


Been saying forever that NNSW should push for a similar stadium next door to Number 2 and force its NPL teams to play out of there in a ground share deal. It could work pretty easily if everyone actually tried.

[380]

It's difficult enough to gain sponsorship / corporate interest in a first tier national competition in Australia - for a 2nd tier competition it's going to be near impossible.
I think short term a 2nd division team in a big city will get some backing if they look capable of breaking into the 1st tier. But ultimately, I think those outside of the big cities will be too much of a risk for potential sponsors - which will ultimately make opportunities to move up a division difficult.
The weaker teams in the top tier will also struggle to get sponsorship as well. But with a 2nd tier to fall into they become an even higher risk prospect to backers / investors[sic]. That being the case, I can see the bottom of the 1st tier teams being more cash starved than they are now.
At best 2nd tier teams will ultimately be relying on first tier teams to fail for them to enter the top tier - and I can see the same teams going back and forth assuming they don't simply fold from investing too much in a lost cause.
The only ones to benefit will be the big city teams until of course the entire comp becomes a complete joke and nobody wants to watch it - much like the NSL.

I honestly can't see the A-league lasting another 15 years.

15yrs is a stretch. These gooses at FFA have run the game into the ground that badly and put them selves and there pay packets before the best interests of the game it won't take that long. On just about every KPI the game has gone backwards and made it less attractive than at any stage for corporate interest. Less interest = less $$$$$ means dying League.

In no other walk of professional life would the likes of Gallop and Wilson kept there gig delivering season after season of declining rubbish. Every new season soon turns into groundhog day with mismanagement and game outcomes determined by incompetent and even worse unaccountable numpties.

[plague]

15yrs is a stretch. These gooses at FFA have run the game into the ground that badly and put them selves and there pay packets before the best interests of the game it won't take that long. On just about every KPI the game has gone backwards and made it less attractive than at any stage for corporate interest. Less interest = less $$$$$ means dying League.

In no other walk of professional life would the likes of Gallop and Wilson kept there gig delivering season after season of declining rubbish. Every new season soon turns into groundhog day with mismanagement and game outcomes determined by incompetent and even worse unaccountable numpties.

i disagree.

The Double Eff Aye invented Derbies.
They also gave the world not one, but TWO chances to laugh at Gypo Arnold on the world stage.

Trump gonna give Gallop the Medal of Freedom before his time is up.

[Jetmaster]

Well, the Maggots won't come to the party...

https://www.theherald.com.au/story/6233133/as-well-as-the-knights-what-other-national-league-sporting-teams-would-the-wests-group-like-to-own/?cs=7580

Any national teams except..


He also said Wests would not invest in a rival football code, such as soccer.

[plague]

Well, the Maggots won't come to the party...



to be fair, why would they?
Wests are about making that straight cash. Plus, even if old man Gardiner was keen he'd need the members to sign off on it and can you imagine many of the Jets demo being amongst that group of the walking dead?

plus, this whole thing is about drumming up interest in getting that Broadmeadow precinct built. Mayor Nelmes sees it as her legacy before she shuffles off to State Parliament. She seems hell bent on getting it done and some of the trade offs will be interesting in order to secure State Funding for it.

Shes just rounding up her usual crew to get out there and talk it up in order to gin up public support.

Not saying its a bad thing, and if it means it compliments the next stage of the light rail then thats dope.
but yeah, no one in this whole thing gives a shit about Netball, Basketball or Soccer (or the ratepayers). thats for sure.

[belchardo]

the next stage of the light rail

plague trying out some of his latest material for the comedy club

[Frodo]

https://www.courthousenews.com/soccer-clubs-lose-case-to-force-promotion-relegation-on-mls/

MLS trying to lock their league down to keep current owners safe from losing money. We don't have teams on the same level as these guys making the complaint, but it sucks that FIFA basically admit that Australia and US won't have a second division.

[mic22]

From the Herald:


In a further fall out from pandemic, Perth Glory owner Tony Sage has stood down the squad without pay.

Players union, Professional Footballers Australia slammed the move and will take legal action if Sage proceeds and served a letter of demand seeking the players' immediate reinstatement.

In the event the players are not reinstated, the PFA will initiate legal proceedings against Tony Sage seeking their reinstatement and the imposition of significant fines in excess of $600,000, pursuant to the Fair Work Act.

With the A-League suspended, clubs are concerned that Foxtel will not pay the next installment of their annual grant which is due on April 15 and covers the players' wages.

The beginning of the end?

[MFKS]

From the Herald:



The beginning of the end?

Fingers crossed the pond gets drained

[belchardo]

there's been a number of reports in the Canberra Times about expansion. Latest report is that two new teams will enter the comp in 2024-25 with canberra one of the favourites (i feel like i've heard that before though). Support from FA, APL and ACT government with the owners to be the same group that tried in 2018.

I feel like expansion is pretty much the last roll of the dice for the a-league.

[StannyCFCJET]

I'm all for expansion and pro/rel but if the current number of clubs isn't sustainable how will adding more clubs make it any easier?

[Bremsstrahlung]

I guess if they get the proposed number of supporters that might raise the average crowd numbers a bit

[Maito Mitch]

Would be good to see the league expanded to 14 teams. That can lead to a 26 game home and away season so we aren't playing the same teams so often. It's hugely important to get the locations right though. Canberra is a logical choice given they already got a W-league team or whatever confusing name we've given that now.

I'd be interested to know whether these new franchises pay massive money to join the A-League? How will the clubs ever let pro/rel exist if an NPL team can get promoted over some made up franchise who paid massive money for an A-League licence?

I think there should be a second division set up for X amount of years. Then expansion clubs for the A-League come from the champions of the second division. So you're naturally promoting the most competitive clubs and after a few years of only promotion, introduce relegation. Even if it is weighted towards A-League clubs staying up via playoffs etc for a while. If pro/rel is a serious chance then I'm not sure how you can justify granting teams entry to the A-League based on granting a licence and paying a fee, rather than actual performance.

[belchardo]

I'm all for expansion and pro/rel but if the current number of clubs isn't sustainable how will adding more clubs make it any easier?

Nobody gives a crap about sustainability. Silver Lake/owners/executives just want enough growth that they can flog their share off to some other schmuk before it all goes bust.

[Frodo]

Would be good to see the league expanded to 14 teams. That can lead to a 26 game home and away season so we aren't playing the same teams so often. It's hugely important to get the locations right though. Canberra is a logical choice given they already got a W-league team or whatever confusing name we've given that now.

I'd be interested to know whether these new franchises pay massive money to join the A-League? How will the clubs ever let pro/rel exist if an NPL team can get promoted over some made up franchise who paid massive money for an A-League licence?

I think there should be a second division set up for X amount of years. Then expansion clubs for the A-League come from the champions of the second division. So you're naturally promoting the most competitive clubs and after a few years of only promotion, introduce relegation. Even if it is weighted towards A-League clubs staying up via playoffs etc for a while. If pro/rel is a serious chance then I'm not sure how you can justify granting teams entry to the A-League based on granting a licence and paying a fee, rather than actual performance.


I have two theories about pro/rel.

1) it's absolutely never going to happen because of what you've said above, and they are just offering lip service to fans and will simply put it off until everyone gives up.


2) the bar set for pro/rel to happen is for either external or internal funding to be secured which pays the current A League clubs back for their investment and then they will be happy allow it.


I can't see there ever being enough interest in the game to pay back the club's, so I don't think it's going to happen under the current model.


Personally I'm totally fine with the A League failing in the next few years and then the NPL just starts having end of year cup comps between divisions until there's enough interest in the game to start again. Basically the FFA cup becomes the pinnacle of football in Australia until a new football pyramid/first division can be sorted without any of the disgusting seppo style franchise fees involved. Earn your place and lose it based off your ability to win football games and nothing else.

[djjones]

Personally I'm totally fine with the A League failing in the next few years and then the NPL just starts having end of year cup comps between divisions until there's enough interest in the game to start again. Basically the FFA cup becomes the pinnacle of football in Australia until a new football pyramid/first division can be sorted without any of the disgusting seppo style franchise fees involved. Earn your place and lose it based off your ability to win football games and nothing else.

That would be the sh*tiest thing to ever happen to Australian football.

[djjones]

Would be good to see the league expanded to 14 teams. That can lead to a 26 game home and away season so we aren't playing the same teams so often. It's hugely important to get the locations right though. Canberra is a logical choice given they already got a W-league team or whatever confusing name we've given that now.

I'd be interested to know whether these new franchises pay massive money to join the A-League? How will the clubs ever let pro/rel exist if an NPL team can get promoted over some made up franchise who paid massive money for an A-League licence?

I think there should be a second division set up for X amount of years. Then expansion clubs for the A-League come from the champions of the second division. So you're naturally promoting the most competitive clubs and after a few years of only promotion, introduce relegation. Even if it is weighted towards A-League clubs staying up via playoffs etc for a while. If pro/rel is a serious chance then I'm not sure how you can justify granting teams entry to the A-League based on granting a licence and paying a fee, rather than actual performance.

Our system like the Yanks isnt set up for pro/rel. Investment must be in the top comp. No one wants to spend on a team in 2nd division.
We dont have anywhere near enough interest from enough people or enough business $$ to support a 2nd division. We probably never will. The other sports have too much history and stranglehold on our mentality tying up their support.

We only barely have enough investment $$$ to run one professional elite comp. The best thing we can do now is ensure we have teams in as many cities as possible in the top division. Maybe 16 max. Leave room for Canberra maybe Tassie or Wollongong. No more Syd or Melb. Then get the kids into following a team. Let the culture develop over the decades. Interest comes with historical events that happen like the Victory City event will build a following.
One last thing. Clubs need to build community so people belong. Thats what the NSL clubs did but that was usually exclusive to certain ethnicity which is why that model was doomed from day one.

[Bremsstrahlung]

I agree.
Having a second division for the sake of having pro/rel doesn’t make sense in Australia.
Who is investing into a team in the second division? We can’t even get people to invest in the top league. Sure, aim to develop enough interest and support and talent to justify a second division. But rushing it through for the sake of it won’t achieve anything.


Imo, and without seeing the details of previous bids, I think Canberra should’ve been in before Western and MacArthur. From what I recall, they had a pretty good proposal, good sized stadium, reasonable investment and support, ALW team. It wouldnt surprise me if It was the best bid they had, but opted for the potential of diluting Sydney and Melbourne support bases.

It’s a bit of a kick in the teeth for Canberra that now they are being considered, after being overlooked, because the league can probably do with a fresh club/location.

I’ve spent some time working in Western Sydney. When I started, a group supported Sydney FC and Bonnyrigg and travelled to games. When WSW came into the comp, they felt they should be supporting their “local” club and began supporting wanderers in their glory days. (The gov ripping down their stadium was a major major cause of unrest, because of the way the club handled relocating them and seating nightmares. Should’ve moved games to Penrith imo). Now they’ve introduced MacArthur and a few of them are from the MacArthur “catchment”, some converted, some remained WSW and some got sick of being pulled in multiple directions.

The derbies work because there’s 2 teams in a two geographical vicinity. A battle of the region. Their idea to add more derbies, to have derbies every week, weakens the concept. I’m absolutely sure MacArthur and Western United playing in their manufactured derbies is nowhere near as intense as the originals. Was all done for Fox to get more games for their $$$$.

The community element is also interesting.
I can definitely see just from lurking posts in the youth forums (venture at your own peril) there’s a bit of resentment towards the program/selections/operations and I’m wondering if some of that reputation is driving some younger fans and families away. They almost become the opposition instead of a community.

[Frodo]

The current model is clearly a sinking ship, if teams like Victory are having to take out dubious loans to cover debts how is anyone else supposed to survive?

Anyone investing in the league now are either dumb, unlikely, or only doing so to make sure they are positioned correctly when the league ends and we have to start again.


We tried to Seppo method and it hasn't worked. Every new team since the Wanderers has had limited success at attracting new fans and diluting and already thin market isn't a great long term strategy. The world cup fans definitely aren't coming, the families are also leaving because of violent fans and rubbish kick off times in the heat. Paramount has been a step back and the number of viewers is way worse than predicted. The next league needs to be smaller and more locally based, play in divisions ans then put the best do the best together in a cup comp or mini-league. It will slowly build into a proper league that way. You can't build a competition around TV viewers, they are too fickle and don't care.



Anyone got anything positive to add because everything is trending down around the league from a statistical perspective other than shitty nicknames for players and the number of hit pieces in the media beating the dead horse.

[belchardo]

Canberra ... good sized stadium

i actually think the stadium in canberra is going to be a problem for a new Canberra team. If they go to Bruce (which would be the most likely), there is zero shade except when right up the top of the stands. The seating has a really shallow angle and the closest seats are going to be some distance at the ends (to fit the league/rugby in-goals). Atmosphere will be really hard to generate. It will be an absolute sweat box and any easterly breeze will be blocked by the stand on that side. It was pretty unpleasant at a few of the Asian Cup games. I can't see them being able to play any matches before 7:00pm at that stadium between November and March.

There is no other realistic option unless they let them use McKellar, which has had a number of noise complaints and light complaints from nearby residents (plus almost no parking, non-existent public transport options). Viking Park is owned by a rugby club and is a long way south (that is a big deal in Canberra).

[mic22]

I think the problem is mainly cultural: the Australian general public (like the americans) is used to high-score sports, they don't appreciate a well-played 0-0.

Unless you were born with it (like Europeans or South Americans), it's hard to understand. It's like cricket to me: I wasn't born with it, and although I've learned the basics and I don't mind watching 20 minutes of it on TV, you'll never see me on the stands.

Winning the general NRL or AFL public is a lost battle, it will never happen. But there is a whole new generation in Australia that was somehow born with football (along with the older hard-cores): that is the audience they need to target. And it will happen, if they don't screw it up completely.
How long is it going to take? Who knows...

I agree promotion/relegation doesn't make any sense at this stage: an expansion to 14-16 teams is a lot more reasonable. Canberra, Tasmania, Gold Coast (yeah I know...)
One thing we need for sure is a longer season, a 26 games regular season is a joke.

[anfield]

Too many mistakes have been made in organising the A League.
The last 2 expansion clubs were two of these mistakes. Western United and Macarthur should never have made the cut and their crowds prove this despite them having decent teams.

When the A League was created one major recommendations from the Crawford report was there were too many teams in Sydney and Melbourne. The establishment of the A League gave Melbourne Victory and Sydney FC a 5 year licence of being the only team from their respective city. Adding a second team from each city , The wanderers and Heart was a good move to create derbies. But 2 is where it should have stayed. Western United should be moved to Geelong and the League needs to work with Macarthur to make it work as it is a football area so it can succeed.

For mine, I think we need to expand again to 14 teams. I think we need to provide more opportunities for younger players to get an opportunity to play at a high level and unfortunately at the moment only Central Coast, Sydney fc, West Sydney and Adelaide are producing decent young players that can step up to A League level and some may debate that. More younger players will only make our national under 20's, under 23's and Eventually Socceroos stronger.

I believe Football needs another team in Queensland, The states too big to have just one team. Gold Coast and North Queensland have previously failed, possibly a team on the Sunshine Coast could work. They already have an NPL team there.

Toowoomba is a Town of 140,000 people, it doesn't have any national league teams in any sport. Why not consider Toowoomba?

So if a Queensland team takes one spot then I would give the other spot to Canberra or Hobart. I don't have a big preference for either but both would have it's merits.

2 other areas that need addressing are the tv coverage and the ticket prices. I think the channel 10 coverage is good, but only one game on free to air TV isn't enough when you compare it to Rugby League, AFL and cricket and while this continues football won't go forward.

I don't have Paramount and from what I've heard from subscribers is that it's crap coverage of football. They need to fix that up plus put more on Paramount to make it worth getting it.

Lastly Football is in a competitive market and so ticket prices need to reflect that. At the current time where the League needs to grow I don't think that any A League ticket for any seat at a regular game should be more then $25. After a few years of covid we should be encouraging people back to the games not slugging them with ridiculous prices.

[samcan]

Too many mistakes have been made in organising the A League.
The last 2 expansion clubs were two of these mistakes. Western United and Macarthur should never have made the cut and their crowds prove this despite them having decent teams.


I think they did a decent job setting it up.

They have failed miserably in not working hard enough in media, national and international corporate sponsorship and constant visits to schools to garner support.
They Wont beat AFL but NRL is a chance over the next 30 years if they advertise constantly in all areas.
We need to increase the TV deal so we can fund more from top down.

QLD is a Bogan basket case. They are entrenched leagueheads. How many teams have failed up there? [/QUOTE]

[belchardo]

SUBMITTED EXPRESSION OF INTERESTS ACCORDING TO AAFC

ACT

Canberra Croatia
Gungahlin United

NEW SOUTH WALES

APIA Leichhardt
Marconi Stallions
Rockdale Ilinden
Sydney Olympic
Sydney United 58
Wollongong Wolves

QUEENSLAND

Brisbane United
Brisbane City
Gold Coast Knights
Gold Coast United
Peninsula Power
Olympic FC
Sunshine Coast Fire

SOUTH AUSTRALIA

Adelaide City
Football South Australia bid

TASMANIA

South Hobart

VICTORIA

Avondale
Bentleigh Greens
Brunswick Juventus
Heidelberg United
Melbourne Knights
Preston Lions
South Melbourne

[belchardo]

https://keepup.com.au/news/fa-statement-imminent-as-23-clubs-express-interest-in-national-second-division/

[evolution]

Wow… I had expected Edgy or Magic to throw their hat into the ring but not Valentine!

[W8 WATCHER]

Wow… I had expected Edgy or Magic to throw their hat into the ring but not Valentine!

Thats a pisstake surely.
you continue to come last or 2nd last every year, and they want to be in the 2nd tier.
Football in NNSW is the sporting reality version of MAFS.

[Bremsstrahlung]

I thought edgy were very interested.
Also thought Hamilton Olympic renamed to newcastle Olympic with vision of a second division.
And obvious Magics success probably makes them a candidate.


But Valentine…. Wow.
Surprised the Jets didn’t think to apply.

[anfield]

Valentine's new facility looks really good atm but It wouldn't hold the required minimum standard crowd for this competition.

I was hoping to see some new francises. Not just NPL clubs, some of whom are still not over being excluded from the original A League.

[belchardo]

Full list

SUBMITTED EXPRESSION OF INTERESTS

ACT



Canberra Croatia
Gungahlin United

NEW SOUTH WALES



APIA Leichhardt
Blacktown City
Fraser Park*
Marconi Stallions
Rockdale Ilinden
Sutherland Sharks/Cronulla Sharks
Sydney Olympic
Sydney United 58
Wollongong Wolves


NORTHERN NEW SOUTH WALES


Valentine FC


QUEENSLAND


Brisbane City
Brisbane United (Wynnum Wolves, Brisbane Strikers, Virigina United)
Gold Coast Knights
Gold Coast United
Olympic FC
Peninsula Power
Sunshine Coast Fire


SOUTH AUSTRALIA


Adelaide City
Football South Australia bid (Campbelltown City, North East MetroStars, West Torrens Birkalla)
Playford City Soccer and Community Club


TASMANIA


South Hobart


VICTORIA


Avondale
Bentleigh Greens
Brunswick Juventus
Green Gully
Heidelberg United
Melbourne Knights
Preston Lions
South Melbourne


WESTERN AUSTRALIA


Spearwood Dalmatinac/Cockburn City*

* Subject to the submission fee payment being confirmed.

[Jetmaster]

This is a mistake in the medium term.

They should get the A-League house in order first.

The ALW is a financial disaster, purely due to lack of general interest, and this will be as well.

[Jardelsimage]

This is a mistake in the medium term.

They should get the A-League house in order first.

The ALW is a financial disaster, purely due to lack of general interest, and this will be as well.

Totally agree,

[Buddha]

The ALM/W is entirely an APL problem. They wanted independence from the FA, they got it. The FA has nothing to do with the running of ALM/W comps anymore

The more teams on a national scale, the better for the potential development of our youth (more teams on a national scale, more opportunities potentially)

[belchardo]

ABC Canberra reporting that a licence for Canberra will be granted today. Auckland also to come in. 2024/25 entry.

Stoked! Shocked!

[belchardo]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/a-leagues-to-add-canberra-auckland-teams-in-50m-expansion-20230314-p5crwp.html


Instead of an open-slather tender process inviting bids from across the country, the APL has conducted extensive research to determine which untapped markets hold most potential for the A-Leagues. Canberra and Auckland were the clear standouts to become teams 13 and 14, chief executive Danny Townsend said.

Both cities have been designated “preferred market status” by the APL. The organisation’s chiefs have already begun consulting football community leaders, governments and other potential stakeholders to gather support. They will spend the next few months searching for investors, before ideally awarding club licences to the new owners in June – giving them about 14 months to prepare both men’s and women’s teams for kick-off in October 2024.

It won’t come cheap. Townsend confirmed the APL would be asking for expansion fees of about $25 million for new franchises

30 rounds when they get to 16 teams.


Townsend said the same process would most likely be followed for teams 15 and 16, with the Gold Coast, Wollongong or a second team in Brisbane considered the front-runners to enter the competitions in season 2025-26

[evolution]

ABC saying Tasmania and Darwin (really?) in the mix as well. Need rectangle stadiums to be in the discussion imo.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-15/a-leagues-canberra-auckland-club-expansion-2024-25-season/102093336?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web


Big fan of a straight home and away season, the current uneven model can never be fair for everyone.

30 game season plus cup and finals finally getting the game time closer to the rest of the world.

[Aegon]

ABC saying Tasmania and Darwin (really?) in the mix as well. Need rectangle stadiums to be in the discussion imo.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-15/a-leagues-canberra-auckland-club-expansion-2024-25-season/102093336?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web


Big fan of a straight home and away season, the current uneven model can never be fair for everyone.

30 game season plus cup and finals finally getting the game time closer to the rest of the world.

Tassie and the ACT need an A league team for development opportunities if nothing else. plenty of good young players in both regions that have little chance to compete against quality opposition unless they re-locate.

Tassie are crying out for another professional sports team in general.

[MFKS]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/a-leagues-to-add-canberra-auckland-teams-in-50m-expansion-20230314-p5crwp.html



30 rounds when they get to 16 teams.

25 million to buy in??

Who the **** is stupid enough to pay that type of money for a loss making exercise??

No wonder the Jets are in Limbo without owners when these ****wits are trying to sell a turd for that price

FmD

[Frodo]

25 million to buy in??

Who the **** is stupid enough to pay that type of money for a loss making exercise??

No wonder the Jets are in Limbo without owners when these ****wits are trying to sell a turd for that price

FmD

I reckon that $25 million figure is complete nonsense from the APL, they will take a can of coke and pie from anyone stupid enough to sign up for the league.

In all honesty, I reckon they are telling clubs to have $25 million in funds ready before they sign up, because they will spend that much over the next 5 years to buy a licence and keep a team afloat.

[Buddha]

Danny Townsend trying to get more people to sign up to his Ponzi Scheme before he goes.

[Eastwest]

Too many mistakes have been made in organising the A League.
The last 2 expansion clubs were two of these mistakes. Western United and Macarthur should never have made the cut and their crowds prove this despite them having decent teams.
It was a push but with better development and adverts they could've done this much better. Easily plenty population and talent in those areas.
I hope thee crowd gets behind Canberra.


The wanderers and Heart was a good move to create derbies. But 2 is where it should have stayed. Western United should be moved to Geelong. Probably but will that culture take to round ball?


I believe Football needs another team in Queensland, The states too big to have just one team. Gold Coast and North Queensland have previously failed, possibly a team on the Sunshine Coast could work. They already have an NPL team there.
It does but the 2 headed crowd wont come around. Shame.


Toowoomba is a Town of 140,000 people, it doesn't have any national league teams in any sport. Why not consider Toowoomba?
no. bogan town. Does league really well.


2 other areas that need addressing are the tv coverage and the ticket prices. I think the channel 10 coverage is good, but only one game on free to air TV isn't enough when you compare it to Rugby League, AFL and cricket and while this continues football won't go forward.
yep


I don't have Paramount and from what I've heard from subscribers is that it's crap coverage of football. They need to fix that up plus put more on Paramount to make it worth getting it.
I thinks its fine. Takes a little long for the replay to get put up.

[MFKS]

I reckon that $25 million figure is complete nonsense from the APL, they will take a can of coke and pie from anyone stupid enough to sign up for the league.

In all honesty, I reckon they are telling clubs to have $25 million in funds ready before they sign up, because they will spend that much over the next 5 years to buy a licence and keep a team afloat.

But even then if it's a case of 25 million in funds available over 5 years then we still have a problem

There is a fundamental structural problem with the competition if clubs need to be losing that type of money

Just looking at the Jets I would rather we went and picked 11 Newy locals paid them minimum wages and played 4-4-2 and played direct and kicked and scrapped all game and we played at Magic Park each game

Be auch better prospect than over paying the likes of Jurman ONeill Burhagier and still not making the semis and losing millions each year playing in an empty 30k stadium

[Frodo]

But even then if it's a case of 25 million in funds available over 5 years then we still have a problem

There is a fundamental structural problem with the competition if clubs need to be losing that type of money

Just looking at the Jets I would rather we went and picked 11 Newy locals paid them minimum wages and played 4-4-2 and played direct and kicked and scrapped all game and we played at Magic Park each game

Be auch better prospect than over paying the likes of Jurman ONeill Burhagier and still not making the semis and losing millions each year playing in an empty 30k stadium

Hey, you shut your mouth with that sort of logic. When we start agreeing on stuff it means everyone is in a lot of trouble.


For some reason the A League genuinely doesn't want to make itself profitable. Every decision is aimed at losing money for at least half a decade in order to become the No 1 sport in the country. When we all know that's not going to happen and if it did it would probably be 10-20 years away and would require a huge stuff up from the NRL and AFL instead of us just taking over from being so great a product.


Can only assume there's some business logic we don't understand where in one hand these owners pour fire onto large piles of money and somehow that translates into profits magically appearing in another hand from other sources. (Tax write offs, city planning kick backs, etc??? No idea.)

[plague]

Sporting franchises (thats what we are dealing with now) are not designed to make an operating profit (NFL exempt).

The $25m figure is designed to sucker someone in who has $25m to blow. If we charge $100k then every asshole wants in and we exist in a comp that has a bunch of small business owners as bosses. They will try and run it like a small business and we will forever exist at that level.

The second someone pays $25m for a licence then the next one is worth $35m and a good existing club is worth $50m and so on. From then ego gets involved and everyone wants to be in the club of wankers who own one of these things.

Double -eff-aye is only copying the US model which just saw its first MLS club be valued over a billion dollars. Feel free to go look at how much that club makes, youll be shocked.

Its why hedge funds and oil states are the only people rich enough to invest in high level sport now. The only way owners make money from sport is through the value of their franchise and their ability to sell it. Soccer had those suckers lining up in the early days but we stopped them from throwing their money around through salary caps and rules that didnt let them show off their spending power.

Palmer, Sage and Tinkler should all have been let loose with the chequebook and our sport would have been 100x better off.

All the fairness in the world will never stop poor clubs from being poor. What we want is for them to be desirable to others who arent poor and they get sold. Its a pyramid scheme of course and the bubble will burst eventually. But still, we will all be dead anyway so who gives a ****.

[MFKS]

Hey, you shut your mouth with that sort of logic. When we start agreeing on stuff it means everyone is in a lot of trouble.


For some reason the A League genuinely doesn't want to make itself profitable. Every decision is aimed at losing money for at least half a decade in order to become the No 1 sport in the country. When we all know that's not going to happen and if it did it would probably be 10-20 years away and would require a huge stuff up from the NRL and AFL instead of us just taking over from being so great a product.


Can only assume there's some business logic we don't understand where in one hand these owners pour fire onto large piles of money and somehow that translates into profits magically appearing in another hand from other sources. (Tax write offs, city planning kick backs, etc??? No idea.)

But it is reasonably logical as to why things are so out of hand in the ALeague in relation to costs

The Ponzi scheme of Franchises can not be reduced. Ie you can't sell of Western United and MacArthur Rams licences to those suckers and then start undercutting the next franchise

The other issue is it keeps the "wogs" out which has been a ridiculous failure from day 1 of Lowys scapegoating of them

If for example we dropped salary caps to 1-1.5 milliomn a year then not only are smaller markets like Tasmania Wollongong Gold Coast able to run teams but it also brings the likes of Sth Melbourne Hellas Adelaide City Sydney Croatia etc right into the picture of being able to compete in the top flight when they can rustle up those funds

**** me go one better the Jets might be able to get stable ownership 5Lol5

Throw into the equation we could easily start to get a 20 team top flight going and a 2nd division pretty quickly if the overall costs were reduced

But once again it is back to players being overpaid which cripples local clubs at NPL level but it is also crippling ALeague clubs paying 2-3 million a year in wages to the likes of Hoffman Hoole Osama Malik Hutcho Simon and every other shit **** ALeague player there has been

[Frodo]

An article came out today which says the asking price for the Jets is set at $15 million.

We are screwed. The only type of people stupid enough to spend that on a business that's guaranteed to lose more money than they can cover with any increase to valuation, would be the sort of business person who would run us into the ground anyways... just like the other amateur owners we already had.

[plague]

An article came out today which says the asking price for the Jets is set at $15 million.

Interesting timing for that little tidbit of information to surface.

Its almost like the double eff aye is letting everyone know that you can have a used club like us for $15m, or a new shiny one for $20m, or wait til the next ones that will be even dearer.

Get in now, stocks are limited.

[Alton]

This can’t be serious

[Bon]

Weren't we supposed to have been evaluated at around 5mil a few years ago??
I know everything else in this world has gone up in price, but based on performance we are one thing that almost certainly shouldn't have..

[Frodo]

Weren't we supposed to have been evaluated at around 5mil a few years ago??
I know everything else in this world has gone up in price, but based on performance we are one thing that almost certainly shouldn't have..

Lee paid $5 million, wanted to recoup his investment but couldn't. The A League wanted $8 million but couldn't find any buyers in 2021. So 2 years later these new idiots in charge think they can get double that for us.

We are screwed. Enjoy it while we can and start supporting the idea of a second division so we maybe have a chance to start again down there.

[My2BobsWorth]

NRL has big leagues clubs with pokie revenue, AFL had 90,000 fans on a thursday night, A league has

[MFKS]

NRL has big leagues clubs with pokie revenue, AFL had 90,000 fans on a thursday night, A league has

I don't see exactly how any of this is actually relevant

The clubs ain't sustainable based on the exorbitant inflated costs being forced onto the owners

It ain't a case of our clubs are trying to spend beyond their means

They are being forced to due to the incompetent poorly organised comp from Day 1 under the FFA and now under the current bunch of fools

[My2BobsWorth]

The point is, the sugar daddy model ain't sustainable, so they can go for the NRL model or AFL model. They have no big licensed clubs so it's the AFL model. As you say the FFA has totally ruined the product. Soccer is a contact sport and people want to see contact, you get more contact with a game of pool. To get the crowds back they need a better product and more exciting game. Not in the near future.

[northern_swan]

The point is, the sugar daddy model ain't sustainable, so they can go for the NRL model or AFL model. They have no big licensed clubs so it's the AFL model. As you say the FFA has totally ruined the product. Soccer is a contact sport and people want to see contact, you get more contact with a game of pool. To get the crowds back they need a better product and more exciting game. Not in the near future.
The key part you’re missing regarding the AFL model is the TV rights deal. It funds all the way down to grassroots, where football is funding the sport via registrations.

[My2BobsWorth]

I don't miss things. The big money comes from packing out stadiums on a regular basis, not 5 thousand on a regular basis

[MFKS]

The point is, the sugar daddy model ain't sustainable, so they can go for the NRL model or AFL model. They have no big licensed clubs so it's the AFL model. As you say the FFA has totally ruined the product. Soccer is a contact sport and people want to see contact, you get more contact with a game of pool. To get the crowds back they need a better product and more exciting game. Not in the near future.


Fixing the product

May I suggest not playing at 3pm or 5pm in Summer for a start

How exactly do we expect good product when we choose to kick off at stupid times in poor weather ??

[Frodo]

Fixing the product

May I suggest not playing at 3pm or 5pm in Summer for a start

How exactly do we expect good product when we choose to kick off at stupid times in poor weather ??

Piss summer football off altogether. Football is a winter sport, always has been. All of a sudden the afternoon family catered kick off times make a lot more sense then too.

[furns]

Lee paid $5 million, wanted to recoup his investment but couldn't. The A League wanted $8 million but couldn't find any buyers in 2021. So 2 years later these new idiots in charge think they can get double that for us.

We are screwed. Enjoy it while we can and start supporting the idea of a second division so we maybe have a chance to start again down there.things were fine with Martin Lee until he was cut off at the knees by the Chinese govt clamping down on funds going offshore. If that hadn't occurred, he'd still be here and we wouldn't be in #foreverseventh mediocrity

[belchardo]

Really not hearing a lot about this in canberra lately. Starting to get a little worried.

[Alton]

There won?t be an expansion, with Perth, Roar and us with no owners they can?t afford to bring in new clubs, not to mention the lack of talent in the current league let alone finding another 60 players

[belchardo]

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/10/11/a-league-to-rubber-stamp-return-to-auckland-with-canberra-expansion-further-behind/

Some encouraging signs. Have been a but concerned about the canberra bid. Have heard nothing about it in the last 6 months.

[belchardo]

Local ABC saying there could be an announcement about Canberra as soon as today.

Probably "Jets moving to Canberra".

[Jim]

Canberra Activists should always be in the comp.

[380]

Local ABC saying there could be an announcement about Canberra as soon as today.

Probably "Jets moving to Canberra".

Cool, Just another excuse for a few Lager's and a schnitty at the Harmonie German club.

[belchardo]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/jan/31/a-league-expansion-2026-new-teams-updates-potentially-scrapped

canberra close, but only paying $18m for the licence. Reconsidering going to 16 teams before the next tv deal. $50m shortfall as a result.

[Eastwest]

American billionaire Bill Foley has bought the licence to run Auckland

How and the **** can a no team in NZ find an American billionaire owner but an existing club cannot find any owner. This world is a piece of ****.

[Alton]

Exactly Easty

[380]

Shane the Executive Chair fella is all over it , Will be done by Christmas. Just pick a year.

Probs be announced the day after being able to add to the squad.

[My2BobsWorth]

Reminds me of George Costanza

[belchardo]

https://aleagues.com.au/news/aleague-canberra-expansion-bid-license-apl-commissioner-nick-garcia-update-latest-news/

Canberra still in the works, but won't plat this season. Women's team still going around.

[belchardo]

Hello Canberra football community.

Member Update

I wanted to write to you with an update on the Canberra A-League project as we have reached a critical stage.

With the A-League Men?s competition set to expand to 14 teams in 2025-26, my team and I have been working hard behind the scenes to finalise the investment that will ensure Canberra fills the final available spot.

This funding will not only complete a 7-year journey we have all been on together to bring a professional Men?s team to the capital region, it will also secure the future of our beloved Canberra United Women?s team.

We are currently in active conversations with a number of interested investors for the Canberra licence, and are at a critical juncture where the strength of the Canberra proposition will be decisive in whether we achieve a successful outcome.

We are close. We have some impressive investors on the cusp of signing on the dotted line, including the potential of a revolutionary partnership with a top-tier European club that will bring substantial expertise and resources to Canberra and to the A-League.

These investors add to the formidable management team with experience from major teams and leagues in Europe, along with their strong vision and strategy to connect Canberra more closely to the global football ecosystem. This will ensure the best chance of success for our club and new possibilities for football in Australia, and is a key attraction to the investors and to the A-Leagues.

The Australian Professional Leagues group that runs theA-Leagues is working closely with us, and is excited by the vision and the progress that has been made.

We just need one last push.

I was encouraged mid-week to read that Andrew Barr had committed to providing $3 million per year into a Canberra Big Bash franchise. Canberra is a growing city so it?s only right that its sports and entertainment ventures grow with it.

However, there is a risk football gets left behind as it has so often in the past.

As a football family, we know that nationally, football has never had its fair share of government funding when compared to some other sporting codes. For example, the Australian Sports Commission Annual Report shows in 2021-22, football received $7.9m in funding, compared to $10.7m for athletics, $8.0m for basketball, $9.8m for hockey and $9.6m for sailing. Despite our game being far and away the nation?s biggest participation sport.

While we support investment into all Canberra sports teams, an A-Leagues club in Canberra stacks up on every front with a Big Bash team. According to YouGov, there are 217k people in the ACT who either play or follow football, which is almost half the population and 10% more than cricket. We also know that an A-Leagues club would be the only spring / summer tenant at a new rectangular stadium, and our current GIO stadium.

A matching $3 million per year commitment from local Government would go a long way to again demonstrating the commitment of Andrew Barr and the City to finally get us the team we have waited so long for.

It could almost certainly be a deciding factor in locking in the last investment needed to secure the future of Canberra United and bring an A-League Men?s team to Canberra.

The ACT Government has previously supported football inCanberra with an in-principle agreement to support the club at $1.45m per year, and more recently providing a one off grant of $250,000 to secure Canberra United?s existence in the A-league Women?s competition for this coming season.

Time and again, you as a community have risen to show your support for this dream we have all been working towards together, and now I invite you to add your voice to mine, as we call for Andrew Barr to ensure that we will have a professional football club in the ACT for generations to come.

You can do this by speaking out on social media, spreading your support via word of mouth, or by writing directly to Mr Barr on barr@act.gov.au

As always, a huge thanks goes out to this core group of supporters and the wider football community that has never shown anything but steadfast support for finishing off what we all started back in 2018.

I hope to be in contact again soon with the news we?ve all been patiently waiting for.

Regards,

Michael Caggiano
CEO Capital Region Football Collective

[belchardo]

Update from the Canberra bid. I am not Michael Caggiano.

[R Ramjet]

Aston Villa were rumoured to be interested in investing in a Canberra team. That was awhile ago though !