2023 Premier Youth League

[Hunter403]

In my opinion - Cup, Plate & Shield. 3 tiers, 3 trophies.

Might be a better idea. The team I am involved with only got one game in this year's comp as we were in a group of three and the heat cancelled one game. Won our only game but it wasn't enough to progress.



Is it true Azzurri don’t have a 16’s team

Correct, so in the second half of this season Azuri will have all ages in group 3. Good luck getting back into the top half of the draw for next season from there.

[Taffy]

Might be a better idea. The team I am involved with only got one game in this year's comp as we were in a group of three and the heat cancelled one game. Won our only game but it wasn't enough to progress.

Surprised you guys didn't get to reschedule like others that were called off.


Correct, so in the second half of this season Azuri will have all ages in group 3. Good luck getting back into the top half of the draw for next season from there.

See if Northern follows that rule or not, they NPL clubs must field a full complement of youth teams to remain in NPL.

[Hunter403]

Surprised you guys didn't get to reschedule like others that were called off.



See if Northern follows that rule or not, they NPL clubs must field a full complement of youth teams to remain in NPL.

NNSWF offered us a reschedule the night after the only game we played. Two games in two nights for pre season? No thanks.

Yeah, let's see if NNSWF has the will to follow their own rules. They haven't in the past.

[sapdad]

Correct, so in the second half of this season Azuri will have all ages in group 3. Good luck getting back into the top half of the draw for next season from there.
Group 3?Wow thats a big punishment.I feel sorry for the kids as Charlestown lost a lot of players this season across all ages.Not sure why they werent able to fill spots.

[Taffy]

Group 3?Wow thats a big punishment.I feel sorry for the kids as Charlestown lost a lot of players this season across all ages.Not sure why they werent able to fill spots.

Should look at the way they handled and treated youth players last year. My brother was there and after the way they handled retentions he left before they ended the season, speaking to a couple of other mates of his as well, just the general way they were treated by the club is why they were happy to go to other NPL clubs.

[Hunter403]

Should look at the way they handled and treated youth players last year. My brother was there and after the way they handled retentions he left before they ended the season, speaking to a couple of other mates of his as well, just the general way they were treated by the club is why they were happy to go to other NPL clubs.

it's been a problem for Charlestown for years.

[Aegon]

Azzurri are tackling the big issues this year.
Kids have been told they have to wear black boots.

:wtf:

[prawnhead]

Azzurri are tackling the big issues this year.
Kids have been told they have to wear black boots.

:wtf:

And fair enough - games gone to shite since kids started to wear pooncy coloured boots. Just need to have a look back through this thread. Entitled or what?

Copa’s at a minimum. Reag’s would be pushin this. F’in old school.

[sapdad]

Just need to have a look back through this thread. Entitled or what?
I know this is mostly tongue in cheek but after reading the ZPL threads I wont hear any slander of the people in this thread ever again.

[WOW2.0]

Azzurri are tackling the big issues this year.
Kids have been told they have to wear black boots.

:wtf:

That is not exactly true...I was there, the youth TD advised his preference for black boots (which is no different to the opinion, Richard Hartley expressed at Jaffas, the year we were there)

And for the same reasoning, that it promotes a sense of "professionlism" (agree or not)...why are you spreading unchecked rumours though ��

[Hunter403]

Really, who gives a fat rat's bum what colour or brand boot kids wear? If parents want to spend $100 or $300, that is their choice. Next it will be haircuts!
As for promoting "professionalism"....good coaching, expectations around attitude and behaviour go a lot further toward that then the colure of a shoe.

[Bremsstrahlung]

I was once told, if you’re gonna wear flash boots, you better make damn sure you can back it up, because everyone’s attention will be on you.
That was when white or coloured boots were starting to come into the mix a lot more. Now most wear coloured boots, the black boots stand out.

All seems a bit silly. But if we’re mandating a boot, Copas.

[WOW2.0]

@Hunter403 I didn't say I agreed

But yes, can we get rid of kids with mullets, the mullet of 2023 is even worse then the shitty mullets of 1993 :P

[Hunter403]

@Hunter403 I didn't say I agreed


But yes, can we get rid of kids with mullets, the mullet of 2023 is even worse then the shitty mullets of 1993 :P


Now I do agree with that. PYL should be a mullet free zone!

[Taffy]

Heard a bit of controversy at Magic Park on the weekend. One player ran half a field and attacked an opposition player, the opposition coach jumped in to break it up. The club from the first player is demanding a long term ban

[The Hacker]

Heard a bit of controversy at Magic Park on the weekend. One player ran half a field and attacked an opposition player, the opposition coach jumped in to break it up. The club from the first player is demanding a long term ban

I heard the 15?s game was a wild one and the Magic coach received a red and may miss a while

[Hunter403]

Heard a bit of controversy at Magic Park on the weekend. One player ran half a field and attacked an opposition player, the opposition coach jumped in to break it up. The club from the first player is demanding a long term ban

I was told by a witness that the coach entered the field and pushed the player. If true, it could be a very long ban. If true, the implications of an adult assaulting a child could get looked at. Sad turn of events however you look at.

[W8 WATCHER]

Heard a bit of controversy at Magic Park on the weekend. One player ran half a field and attacked an opposition player, the opposition coach jumped in to break it up. The club from the first player is demanding a long term ban

surprise surprise

[sapdad]

Before the same old idiots post the same old comments about the same old club,please reconsider.Unless you were there you dont know anything.Hate to break it to some around here but your 2nd and 3rd hand knowledge is not always 100% accurate.

[Taffy]

Were you these sap?

[The Hacker]

Before the same old idiots post the same old comments about the same old club,please reconsider.Unless you were there you dont know anything.Hate to break it to some around here but your 2nd and 3rd hand knowledge is not always 100% accurate.

Then do elaborate if you know more cause I think a few people all are hearing a very similar story and I?m sure it?s not from the one person. Usually where there is smoke there is fire

[sapdad]

Were you these sap?

No,and thats my point.You werent either so we have the same amount of knowledge about it.

[JustMe]

Before the same old idiots post the same old comments about the same old club,please reconsider.Unless you were there you dont know anything.Hate to break it to some around here but your 2nd and 3rd hand knowledge is not always 100% accurate.

Your comment is inciting to start with ya grub.

[sapdad]

Your comment is inciting to start with ya grub.

If its a grub act to discourage rumours and straight up club bashing on a forum that continually gets closed down because grown ups cant control themselves discussing youth football then consider me covered in filth mate.

[JustMe]

If its a grub act to discourage rumours and straight up club bashing on a forum that continually gets closed down because grown ups cant control themselves discussing youth football then consider me covered in filth mate.

Generally calling everyone an idiot is retarded. Wake up to yourself moron.

[sapdad]

Generally calling everyone an idiot is retarded. Wake up to yourself moron.
You know what,you're right.Lets just all say dumb shit and see where it takes us.I see you've got the ball rolling.

[ForeverRed]

You know what,you're right.Lets just all say dumb shit and see where it takes us.I see you've got the ball rolling.
Don?t forget you are probably talking to people who?ve never kicked a ball in anger, be gentle

[Aegon]

Ok let’s dial it back a bit.
Personal attacks and petty arguments are a quick way to lose the ability to talk about youth football on the forum again.

[WOW2.0]

Saw that Football Victoria conducts their youth Pro/Rel on a team by team basis...surely this would have been a better model for us to have adopted, allowing for underperforming clubs to build and grow (without the risk of an overperforming team suffering a collective punishment, and being a target for poaching)

This is following on from a post from South Melbourne FC last night pointed out how they had just finished being graded for their youth NPL teams, and finished with 2 teams in Div 1, and a team each in Div 2 and 3

Shame we didn't adopt this model

[sapdad]

Saw that Football Victoria conducts their youth Pro/Rel on a team by team basis...surely this would have been a better model for us to have adopted, allowing for underperforming clubs to build and grow (without the risk of an overperforming team suffering a collective punishment, and being a target for poaching)

This is following on from a post from South Melbourne FC last night pointed out how they had just finished being graded for their youth NPL teams, and finished with 2 teams in Div 1, and a team each in Div 2 and 3

Shame we didn't adopt this model

I agree this is the perfect model from a competitive point of view and it will be interesting to see at the halfway point how many outliers there are.To change to this system would be a massive logistic exercise and unless there were a lot of teams impacted I cant see NNSW justifying it.I also think playing the 18s in the same structure as youth has been a huge mistake.

[Zico]

Saw that Football Victoria conducts their youth Pro/Rel on a team by team basis...surely this would have been a better model for us to have adopted, allowing for underperforming clubs to build and grow (without the risk of an overperforming team suffering a collective punishment, and being a target for poaching)

This is following on from a post from South Melbourne FC last night pointed out how they had just finished being graded for their youth NPL teams, and finished with 2 teams in Div 1, and a team each in Div 2 and 3

Shame we didn't adopt this model
Have a closer look at how this model is structured and you will see it is very poor.

[Aegon]

Anyone have a link to a summary of the structure?

[WOW2.0]

Why is it poor...Victoria's NPL output is arguably the best in the country?

[WOW2.0]

Anyone have a link to a summary of the structure?

Found this just now...relevant from page 49 (they play 33 games all up, 11 for grading purposes, and then a season of 22 games in their relevant tier)...importantly, the gradings are by team...so if there is a good team in a weak club, they are not punished (and vice versa)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IZHQCh6qIVyD8I7kswTOHms7JVR2uYGp/view

[Taffy]

Saw that Football Victoria conducts their youth Pro/Rel on a team by team basis...surely this would have been a better model for us to have adopted, allowing for underperforming clubs to build and grow (without the risk of an overperforming team suffering a collective punishment, and being a target for poaching)

This is following on from a post from South Melbourne FC last night pointed out how they had just finished being graded for their youth NPL teams, and finished with 2 teams in Div 1, and a team each in Div 2 and 3

Shame we didn't adopt this model

I think the issue is volunteers, ground availability and players playing multiple games. Imagine Newcastle Olympic with their U16s in Coffs Harbour, their U15s at Weston, their U14s at home and their U13s at Blacksmiths, all playing on the same day in three different divisions.

Plus the way Northern does it is the same way Sydney does it

[WOW2.0]

I'm just suggesting it's a better (and fairer) way then the way Sydney does it, too, one that lets teams find their appropriate level...what you mentioned are just inconveniences really and could be managed, as obviously happens in Victoria already

[Taffy]

Probably more volunteers in Victoria.

[Reds Forever]

Probably also don't have teams as far away as North Coast and Northern Inland.

[Swanky]

Probably also don't have teams as far away as North Coast and Northern Inland.
Murray United - Woodonga, Gippsland United - Gippsland, Goulburn Valley - Bendigo.
Geelong pulled out due to travel and having teams play at different areas of the state. You also have Mornington that is an hour from the city
Gippsland to Geelong is 5 hours
Gippsland to Goulburn valley 6 hours
Gippsland to Bendigo 6 hours
Bendigo to City 2 hours
Gippsland to City 4 hours
Woodonga to City 3.5 hours
Woodonga to Geelong 4 hours
Woodonga to Gippsland 5.5 hours

[sapdad]

Does anyone know how NIAS are now linked with Wallsend?Their club name comes up as NIAS/Wallsend on the draw.

[Taffy]

Geelong pulled out due to travel and having teams play at different areas of the state.

Seems there is an issue with the Victorian model then.

[Hunter403]

Does anyone know how NIAS are now linked with Wallsend?Their club name comes up as NIAS/Wallsend on the draw.

Yes, NIAS were unable to provide an u18s and Wallsend could. Essentially, Wallsend are NIAS for the club championship.

[sapdad]

Yes, NIAS were unable to provide an u18s and Wallsend could. Essentially, Wallsend are NIAS for the club championship.

Thanks.

[WOW2.0]

Is that the reason they pulled out, genuinely curious where they posted this? :)

Those travel distances are the same if the entire club has to travel or 1 team though...I've not noticed large entourage's of club people at games so far

[Oldy]

I think the issue is volunteers, ground availability and players playing multiple games. Imagine Newcastle Olympic with their U16s in Coffs Harbour, their U15s at Weston, their U14s at home and their U13s at Blacksmiths, all playing on the same day in three different divisions.

Plus the way Northern does it is the same way Sydney does it

Nothing wrong with that if you have half a brain. Parents run their kids to a different ground. Big deal, wheres the hardship?

Only difference is you dont prance around before and after the other grades. And have enough kids for each grade in case you aren't together.

If you cant handle that youre a precious knob.

[Taffy]

Nothing wrong with that [edited] Parents run their kids to a different ground. Big deal, wheres the hardship?

Only difference is you dont prance around before and after the other grades. And have enough kids for each grade in case you aren't together.

[edited]

No need for insults, but please tell me how parents can run kids from Weston to Coffs when the game is on the same day?

Please tell me how club can host game days when most clubs rely on parents to run canteens and other duties to host games day when they are all at different grounds and ferrying their kids around.

[WOW2.0]

Is that any different if you had a couple of kids in different clubs? (Or a kid in YNPL and another in SAP) @Taffy

(Another possibility, maybe, Coffs Harbour shouldn't be in our league...I have to travel up there later this year, I don't really want to :P )

[KITZ]

Why is it poor...Victoria's NPL output is arguably the best in the country?

who has reported that? everyone in vic says its broken - lots of Newcastle peeps go to Victorian NPL to play senior football which would make me think that the youth aren't competing in that space for senior spots..

[Oldy]

No need for insults, but please tell me how parents can run kids from Weston to Coffs when the game is on the same day?

Please tell me how club can host game days when most clubs rely on parents to run canteens and other duties to host games day when they are all at different grounds and ferrying their kids around.

Not an insult. You are a crybaby who loses the plot when things need a bit of thought.

Clubs make it work. Parents have a brain and can make it work.
We have cars and spend money on useless crap everyday this is easily doable.

Maybe you also need to grow up and not pretend that every thing is too hard.

[WOW2.0]

They go there, and then find they are not up to speed �� then typically come back to play regularly in our NPL

We have friends who left a tier 1 club here to specifically go play youth NPL in Victoria (they've been much happier)

First graders are paid a lot more in Victoria...hence the attempts to go there...also reflects better in your player CV

[Taffy]

Not an insult. You are a crybaby who loses the plot when things need a bit of thought.

Clubs make it work. Parents have a brain and can make it work.
We have cars and spend money on useless crap everyday this is easily doable.

Maybe you also need to grow up and not pretend that every thing is too hard.

With more insults. I noticed you didn't answer my question.

Also you should actually read my comments before having a tantrum, I gave possible reasons why Northern followed the Sydney model.

[WOW2.0]

Going to be interesting for club budgets over the next few years. With the youth comp being all in together with promotion and relegation it is going to be hard for clubs to justify $2000 plus fees when others in the same comp can charge less than $1000.

Should be mandatory for all clubs to publish their youth and SAP/JDL fees in advance of the next season, the number of training sessions as well, etc...let consumers know what they are "buying"

[Hunter403]

Should be mandatory for all clubs to publish their youth and SAP/JDL fees in advance of the next season, the number of training sessions as well, etc...let consumers know what they are "buying"

That proposal has been put to NNSWF in the past and they have declined the opportunity to do it. It would be a great initiative.

[Taffy]

Should be mandatory for all clubs to publish their youth and SAP/JDL fees in advance of the next season, the number of training sessions as well, etc...let consumers know what they are "buying"

If parents want to know they can always ask and clubs generally tell players when they provide the offer.

[Bremsstrahlung]

If parents want to know they can always ask and clubs generally tell players when they provide the offer.

Bit late for some when they get “the offer”.
Have heard clubs doing the ol’ “pay now or next on the list gets your spot”.

But yeh, most should be able to give you a run down pre-trial if you can get in contact with the right person.
Making it available would be the easiest thing for everyone tbh.
Maybe a good way for some “lesser” clubs to get in some good youth.

[Taffy]

Bit late for some when they get ?the offer?.
Have heard clubs doing the ol? ?pay now or next on the list gets your spot?.

They don't have to accept the offer. And they can always ask, if the club refuses to say tell them they train two nights a week on Monday and Thursday, total fee is $1,000 and that training starts in November then their refusal is all you need to know about the club and leave.


But yeh, most should be able to give you a run down pre-trial if you can get in contact with the right person.
Making it available would be the easiest thing for everyone tbh.
Maybe a good way for some ?lesser? clubs to get in some good youth.

Potentially, that parents are happy to take their kids to Magic and remain there for $1,600/year for JDL means they probably don't care about all that.

[sapdad]

Coaches and TD's love nothing more than parents putting requirements on clubs before their easily replaceable kid will accept.The offer is the offer,the price is the price.Parents dont get a say.Im not saying whether thats fair or not,but thats the way it is.

[Hunter403]

Premier Youth League Prices for this season, that I am aware of, (I have simply asked people whose kids play at the clubs or club officials) range from $950 (including clothing) to $2200 (including clothing). Training regimes range from twice a week, to 5 nights per fortnight to 3 nights per week, although twice per week is the norm. Some clubs started in the last quarter of last year and some came back after Xmas. Some clubs include gym visits and tailored pre season programmes (this was the cheapest club). Most include Veo recordings available for review. All offer C licence coaches.
Clothing packages ranged from match day and training kits plus tracksuits, club shirt and spray jackets, to match day kit and club shirt only.
Surprisingly, the cheapest club offered the most in clothing, pre season programme and gym visits, They also provide at no cost wet weather training on artificial pitches.
Overall, the range of costs is not, in my opinion, justified by what is offered. The overall experience is not that different from club to club.
Some will argue that you get better coaches at the "bigger" clubs, but are they? Or do they just benefit from the better kids being there? I have seen some very poor coaches at NPL and some great ones in NL1. Far harder to coach less talented players.

[Taffy]

Coaches and TD's love nothing more than parents putting requirements on clubs before their easily replaceable kid will accept.The offer is the offer,the price is the price.Parents dont get a say.Im not saying whether thats fair or not,but thats the way it is.

Is it really that bad to ask what days training will be and how much is rego?

[sapdad]

Is it really that bad to ask what days training will be and how much is rego?

No,not at all.My point is that parents who want something different from what the club is offering are in for a very short conversation,especially if they want to criticize where the money goes.

[sapdad]

The overall experience is not that different from club to club.
As a parent of a current NPL youth player,who came through JDL and has many many friends who have done the same, I can guarantee you first hand that the experience is way different from club to club.I agree with you that being at the best club doesnt always provide the best coach,or the best facilities,or the best opportunites.But a lot of kids and parents will sacrifice that stuff for short term gains (wins).I also agree that NL1 has some fantastic players,coaches and clubs.I would recommend anyone that isnt happy at their current situation to explore every available opportunity as there is a wide range of options out there.I think threads like these can be important for anyone out there who is at a good club to advertise it and promote it.If that then drives players,coaches and sponsors their way then thats a good thing.

[Hunter403]

As a parent of a current NPL youth player,who came through JDL and has many many friends who have done the same, I can guarantee you first hand that the experience is way different from club to club.

That's interesting. I have had one son in an NPL club (a strong one) and one at a NL1 club and I have coached premiership winning teams at both levels. I'm still coaching in the PYL today. The clubs I have been involved with personally did things much the same way in regards to gear, training etc, etc. The only real difference was that the NL1 clubs that I have been involved with showed greater overall interest in the kids than the NPL club. Retention based on loyalty also stronger in the NL1 clubs from my experience. Of course, I can't speak for all clubs but when it comes to the amount of training, clothing/gear, qualified coaches etc, but I don't see how there can be a huge difference in the way they do things day to day.

Perhaps it is attitude of the clubs that is the big variation??

I guess the point I am making is that what you get for $2200 is not $1250 better than what you get for $950. If one club can do it for that amount, so can others.

[sapdad]

Perhaps it is attitude of the clubs that is the big variation??


Thats what I think.

[Taffy]

The only real difference was that the NL1 clubs that I have been involved with showed greater overall interest in the kids than the NPL club. Retention based on loyalty also stronger in the NL1 clubs from my experience.

Probably true more interest for Div 2 teams in their kids the Div 1 teams know they can just get another good player so who cares. Why they can also charge twice as much because people will pay it.

[WOW2.0]

Wonder if you could draw a link between the fee differences, and the success of their first graders

Fees funding that success, parents attracted to that success also helping justify the higher prices, believing, often incorrectly, that there is a link between between the levels...then, as above, attracting the better kids means you're more likely to win games, and winning can easily be mistaken for development of course.

(I admit, it's why I chose our first SAP club...thinking 1st grade success meant developmental success along the chain)

[sapdad]

Wonder if you could draw a link between the fee differences, and the success of their first graders

Fees funding that success, parents attracted to that success also helping justify the higher prices, believing, often incorrectly, that there is a link between between the levels...then, as above, attracting the better kids means you're more likely to win games, and winning can easily be mistaken for development of course.


I think this is a really good way to look at it.Another 5-10 years and you will also be able to see how many kids make it all the way through to senior football from JDL.It will be interesting to see if clubs get the benefit of the finished product of if recruiting will always trump development.

[Taffy]

I think this is a really good way to look at it.Another 5-10 years and you will also be able to see how many kids make it all the way through to senior football from JDL.It will be interesting to see if clubs get the benefit of the finished product of if recruiting will always trump development.

That comes down to the club ethos really if they keep them. But across the board how many come through JDL and Youth to be playing 1st grade at any club. Plenty of clubs develop players but will always favour a ready now reserve grade player over an 18yo who will be ready in 2 years. But the current JDL product the first kids are only in U14, do need to wait a few more years to see that cohort no longer able to play youth. Same with the PYL, really need to give it 5 years to see if it is good for the game or not.

[Taffy]

Some interesting match ups. Not sure about individual community teams and so the club they come up against all get through to Round 2. But then again NIAS., Wallsend and Charlestown all aren't fielding full teams either. So whoever gets them go through to Round 2 in those age groups.

[Jim]

That's interesting. I have had one son in an NPL club (a strong one) and one at a NL1 club and I have coached premiership winning teams at both levels. I'm still coaching in the PYL today. The clubs I have been involved with personally did things much the same way in regards to gear, training etc, etc. The only real difference was that the NL1 clubs that I have been involved with showed greater overall interest in the kids than the NPL club. Retention based on loyalty also stronger in the NL1 clubs from my experience. Of course, I can't speak for all clubs but when it comes to the amount of training, clothing/gear, qualified coaches etc, but I don't see how there can be a huge difference in the way they do things day to day.

Perhaps it is attitude of the clubs that is the big variation??

I guess the point I am making is that what you get for $2200 is not $1250 better than what you get for $950. If one club can do it for that amount, so can others.

Ive found generally that the lower the club the more emphasis on creating a nice environment for the player this is mainly for player retention & club longevity.
exceptions maybe Cooks Hill New Lambton but lets see how their % retention goes now they are in top division.
No club is perfect and all go through periods of decline at some point.

[Jim]

That comes down to the club ethos really if they keep them. But across the board how many come through JDL and Youth to be playing 1st grade at any club. Plenty of clubs develop players but will always favour a ready now reserve grade player over an 18yo who will be ready in 2 years. But the current JDL product the first kids are only in U14, do need to wait a few more years to see that cohort no longer able to play youth. Same with the PYL, really need to give it 5 years to see if it is good for the game or not.

From the clubs i know around 85% of JDL kids are playing PYL or NL1 from the 1st 2 years of full JDL.

In the top division single Club youth development is mainly a myth.
A large majority change clubs once or more between 9s to 16s. Being cut, moving house, hating coaches, following coaches, disgruntled parents, losing interest, joining mates, stupid rego fees, injury, not being valued shows how easy it is to make a move elsewhere.
These kids develop from several clubs and filter into the system like they always have.
By the 16s clubs will take just about anyone just to fill the squads.
In fact anyone who stays at the same JDL PYL NPL club would be unique.

As far as skill level goes, IMO the technical level is definitely better than the past but not sure about about physical athletic level which may have been better in decades past.

[Taffy]

By the 16s clubs will take just about anyone just to fill the squads.
In fact anyone who stays at the same JDL PYL NPL club would be unique.

I can think of quite a few now in 18s/Reserves who have been at the same club since they started in U13s.

I know a couple who are still at the same club since U9s in U14s (the first cohort of JDL players).


As far as skill level goes, IMO the technical level is definitely better than the past but not sure about about physical athletic level which may have been better in decades past.

Probably because they have a larger pool, more talent, a larger desire by clubs to ensure they make better players and more kids get more games from U9s rather than a much smaller pool of players

[Aegon]

Some interesting match ups. Not sure about individual community teams and so the club they come up against all get through to Round 2. But then again NIAS., Wallsend and Charlestown all aren't fielding full teams either. So whoever gets them go through to Round 2 in those age groups.

Surely there was a better way to format this for the ID teams?
1- Pool ID clubs together in a group pool (13's-18's)
2- Play ID selective sides in each age group
3- Play Zone ID selective sides in each age group

[Taffy]

Surely there was a better way to format this for the ID teams?
1- Pool ID clubs together in a group pool (13's-18's)
2- Play ID selective sides in each age group
3- Play Zone ID selective sides in each age group

Have them enter the plate in Round 2 as well would help. Then it is only the three Northern clubs that can't field full teams where other teams go straight to the cup

[Aegon]

Interested to hear people's thoughts on NPL Youth after the second class of SAP/JDL graduates have moved into 13's.

Looking at both tables there is a pretty clear divide between the top half and bottom half of the tables.

I think I optimistically thought that developing more players earlier would result in a more balanced competition, however it looks like it has probably expanded the talent depth out to around 6 or so competitive teams in each grade.

Maybe the improvement is that there are a greater number of kids with a high level of ability, however I really don't know.

The 13's age group seems to be quite deep in terms of high quality players. There are probably another 10-15 kids that are very, very close to the level of players selected by the Jets, and the 13's Jets will be top half in NPL Youth 1 in the FNSW competition.

Do people think the club based JDL/SAP is a success so far or has it failed to meet it's objectives?

Has the NPL Youth competition benefited or not?

Does this help clubs outside of the historical elite?

[WOW2.0]

@Aegon, I think it's still too early to tell...some teams seem to have done well, others not so well..sometimes for things within their control, other times not.

I think Rosebuds decision last year to run with a single SAP group, while managing to keep that core has paid off...there 13s might be one of the big losers in the pro/rel...but quite a few of the teams are almost unrecognisable to the teams we played against over the last few years (churn and burn...and I don't think that is a good thing)

Looking back to the way it was
I think in the previous system, those zone representative teams would almost move in entirety to a club, meaning some clubs were perennial under achievers, and the tier 1 clubs benefited imensly from personal relationship management (that those clubs weren't necessarily great at developing those kids further though...I didn't pay slot of attention at the time, but believe there were large gaps in the table them as well (without the threat of kid's Pro/Rel)

With those 10-15 fringe players, I think Northern should offer a development team opportunity for them, run it the way the Jets academy did previously. I.e. take those boys, play them locally an age group up to challenge them and drive them...that would also help to spread the talent out in each age group as well IMO. Also provideing the Jets a ready source to fill any shortfall they have through the season (underperformance, injury, etc...and a place for released Jets kids to continue their development before they may be invited back)

That provides an outlet primarily for development of those kids, rather than results based drive of the tier 1s (being careful not to mistake winning for development) :)

[sapdad]

I think Rosebuds decision last year to run with a single SAP group, while managing to keep that core has paid off...there 13s might be one of the big losers in the pro/rel...but quite a few of the teams are almost unrecognisable to the teams we played against over the last few years (churn and burn...and I don't think that is a good thing)


The JDL program has produced a higher standard of technical ability,but it hasnt benefited clubs who developed them.Your example above if Im correct had their 2 best kids go to the superteam that was almost entirely recruited from outside their own juniors.Does that make the recruiting club succesful?Problem will be that the superclub will lose players next year to various other programs and will recruit from outside again.So the club will look good from afar from a results basis but what have they actually done to raise the standard of the whole age group?and most importantly,is it the clubs job to train the kids or just recruit?Because there is no benefit to developing is there?On the flip side the consistent top 3 youth clubs develop kids, the Jets and other higher levels come and take them and what do they get for it?Then they are forced to recruit outside their kids and everyone blames them for buying a comp.The only upside is that we stay the course,get NNSW to bring more and more kids into the JDL structure and hopefully give the clubs a reason to keep developing them.The downside is if we go back to the old system,it becomes more exclusive and we end up like the womens NPL where the top tier talent just goes to where the best deal is and walks the comp every year.The JDL system needs a good generation to even begin to get real results.Im happy to keep it going.

[Timewilltell]

@Aegon, I think it's still too early to tell...some teams seem to have done well, others not so well..sometimes for things within their control, other times not.

I think Rosebuds decision last year to run with a single SAP group, while managing to keep that core has paid off...there 13s might be one of the big losers in the pro/rel...but quite a few of the teams are almost unrecognisable to the teams we played against over the last few years (churn and burn...and I don't think that is a good thing)

Looking back to the way it was
I think in the previous system, those zone representative teams would almost move in entirety to a club, meaning some clubs were perennial under achievers, and the tier 1 clubs benefited imensly from personal relationship management (that those clubs weren't necessarily great at developing those kids further though...I didn't pay slot of attention at the time, but believe there were large gaps in the table them as well (without the threat of kid's Pro/Rel)

With those 10-15 fringe players, I think Northern should offer a development team opportunity for them, run it the way the Jets academy did previously. I.e. take those boys, play them locally an age group up to challenge them and drive them...that would also help to spread the talent out in each age group as well IMO. Also provideing the Jets a ready source to fill any shortfall they have through the season (underperformance, injury, etc...and a place for released Jets kids to continue their development before they may be invited back)

That provides an outlet primarily for development of those kids, rather than results based drive of the tier 1s (being careful not to mistake winning for development) :)

Most intelligent post I?ve ever read in this forum 👍👍

[Taffy]

Interested to hear people's thoughts on NPL Youth after the second class of SAP/JDL graduates have moved into 13's.

Looking at both tables there is a pretty clear divide between the top half and bottom half of the tables.

Hence why they have the split later in the year, and next year Division 1 will be smaller.

But I recall in years gone by under the old system there was a huge divide, does anyone elese remember teams with goal differences bigger than -100.



I think I optimistically thought that developing more players earlier would result in a more balanced competition, however it looks like it has probably expanded the talent depth out to around 6 or so competitive teams in each grade.

Maybe the improvement is that there are a greater number of kids with a high level of ability, however I really don't know.

Have to continue to give it some time, but also look at the changes in teams. Last year in the U13s it wasn't just all the same teams getting the top results. Olympic for example struggled in 13s, yet before they just got given the best Newcastle Football kids. Now they had to develop them. Seem to have learnt that lesson quickly with their current 13s, but Adamstown and Lakes 13s are going well and they were usually two clubs that struggled and were clubs losing by 6 or more every week. So good on Adamstown and Lakes who got the opportunity to develop their own JDL kids rather than having to take community kids who were already at a disadvantage over the SAP Zone kids (due to coaching and much smaller season) who just went to the same clubs each year.

Also remember though that this is the first year of the PYL with promotion and relegation and some clubs scared of it have decided to stack teams.


The 13's age group seems to be quite deep in terms of high quality players. There are probably another 10-15 kids that are very, very close to the level of players selected by the Jets, and the 13's Jets will be top half in NPL Youth 1 in the FNSW competition.

Do people think the club based JDL/SAP is a success so far or has it failed to meet it's objectives?

So far successful, we have a greater pool of talent, clubs are now held to a standard and to their own ability to develop kids rather than just get the best through connections with the Zone TD and/or the club telling the U12s coach he can coach the team if he brings his son and players.

Has started and is allowing other clubs to start to see improvement as well


Has the NPL Youth competition benefited or not?

So far yes but the change to promotion and relegation will continue to do that.


Does this help clubs outside of the historical elite?

Absolutely.

[Taffy]

With those 10-15 fringe players, I think Northern should offer a development team opportunity for them, run it the way the Jets academy did previously. I.e. take those boys, play them locally an age group up to challenge them and drive them...that would also help to spread the talent out in each age group as well IMO. Also provideing the Jets a ready source to fill any shortfall they have through the season (underperformance, injury, etc...and a place for released Jets kids to continue their development before they may be invited back)

Well that's what TSP is all about, I know they have dropped TSP for 12s because Jets are now doing their pre-academy but that is there.

[Taffy]

The JDL system needs a good generation to even begin to get real results.Im happy to keep it going.

Exactly right, need them all to come through not start wanting to ditch it now the first branches have sprouted.

[WOW2.0]

Well that's what TSP is all about, I know they have dropped TSP for 12s because Jets are now doing their pre-academy but that is there.

TSP isn't a team though. Arguably they are mostly just helping along those tier 1s (whose.players make up the bulk of the inclusions) by giving some of their kids an extra night to train with other quality kids (nothing wrong with that either)...my concept would be more like that TSP team forming a regular season team, competing up an age group for greater challenge (not just physically, but the speed of decision making)...with a focus less so on "winning" (that clubs especially need to be mindful of now due to the pro/rel of kids sport (adults should have this system, well before any kids teams), and more about the long term development of some of our hugely talented kids :)

And offers a transition step to and from the Jets

So I think what I have suggested is quite different in that regard

[Aegon]

TSP isn't a team though. Arguably they are mostly just helping along those tier 1s (whose.players make up the bulk of the inclusions) by giving some of their kids an extra night to train with other quality kids (nothing wrong with that either)...my concept would be more like that TSP team forming a regular season team, competing up an age group for greater challenge (not just physically, but the speed of decision making)...with a focus less so on "winning" (that clubs especially need to be mindful of now due to the pro/rel of kids sport (adults should have this system, well before any kids teams), and more about the long term development of some of our hugely talented kids :)

And offers a transition step to and from the Jets

So I think what I have suggested is quite different in that regard

I like the idea, however not sure the clubs would be sold on losing some of their best players to a Northern TSP team that may then be subject of the same relationship management that was detrimental to the zone format. Also would leave room for only 7 clubs in the Youth A division.

It would definitely expand the options and development pathways for the players though.

[WOW2.0]

I think in that system, there is no need for a tiered approach...certainly reduces the gap, as the best players would be promoted appropriately thus narrowing the margin between the top and bottom

The difference between the teams often comes down to just a couple of players, not the whole basket... :)

[Taffy]

I think in that system, there is no need for a tiered approach...certainly reduces the gap, as the best players would be promoted appropriately thus narrowing the margin between the top and bottom

The difference between the teams often comes down to just a couple of players, not the whole basket... :)

It is different as it is now what the Jets used to do before going to Sydney. So now we just create another team, though may not necessarily be the best players going into the team.


Also would leave room for only 7 clubs in the Youth A division.

That assumes they finished top 8 in Division 1. Wouldn't seem right for them to get to stay up if the finish bottom 4.


The current system does bring in about 20 players for TSP where they do play games against other zones and go to Nationals without compromising clubs. If they are good enough they will be seen by Jets and Mariners the latter of which are always scouting and looking over the competition throughout the season (one player they approached for this year told him they had been making notes about him for 3 years and felt he was now developed enough), while the former only bother to start looking towards the end of the season, which I doubt the Jets even knew this player existed.

[jessepinkman]

Does the kids rego money cover the new CEOs all expenses paid trip to Japan with the 14s???

Why does the CEO need to go on this trip at all?

[The Magician]

Does the kids rego money cover the new CEOs all expenses paid trip to Japan with the 14s???

Why does the CEO need to go on this trip at all?

Peter has been tour manager for this trip of NNSW representatives for nearly 10 years, originally NSWF and NNSWF would create a combined squad of players. But 5 years ago FNSW ceased the participation. As an A Licence coach he also coached the team for a few years when NNSWF had no TD in residence.

And maybe his ticket was booked way before Elland was ousted and the CEO position become vacant and he applied for and was successful.

Regardless of the motives the trip has become an annual occurrence for nearly a decade giving our players a football experience they will not forget.

You are obviously affilitated with the other guy that did not get the job, and the social media attacks towards Peter criticising decisions obviously made months ago speaks volumes to the saltiness of your mate not being a suitable candidate.

You and your mates are exactly what is wrong with our game and the white anting from within that never allows the game to flourish at its potential. We finally have a club person, a local administrator who has fantastic relationships with the zones and a decorated player leading our game.Who hasnt been in the job for a month, but is getting attacked that it is his fault the region doesnt have adequate representation at national and international levels for the past 14 years.

If the Ceo of Nnswf was so powerful to have input on the Jets lineup each week then you and your loser mates could justify a response. Your attacks regarding representation should be aimed at the coaches who are refusing to give our best youth a go, yet you are hell bent on criticising our new CEO for allowing our best kids to represent their country and region on the international stage as a "junket"... how sad you are.

[ForeverRed]

Peter has been tour manager for this trip of NNSW representatives for nearly 10 years, originally NSWF and NNSWF would create a combined squad of players. But 5 years ago FNSW ceased the participation. As an A Licence coach he also coached the team for a few years when NNSWF had no TD in residence.

And maybe his ticket was booked way before Elland was ousted and the CEO position become vacant and he applied for and was successful.

Regardless of the motives the trip has become an annual occurrence for nearly a decade giving our players a football experience they will not forget.

You are obviously affilitated with the other guy that did not get the job, and the social media attacks towards Peter criticising decisions obviously made months ago speaks volumes to the saltiness of your mate not being a suitable candidate.

You and your mates are exactly what is wrong with our game and the white anting from within that never allows the game to flourish at its potential. We finally have a club person, a local administrator who has fantastic relationships with the zones and a decorated player leading our game.Who hasnt been in the job for a month, but is getting attacked that it is his fault the region doesnt have adequate representation at national and international levels for the past 14 years.

If the Ceo of Nnswf was so powerful to have input on the Jets lineup each week then you and your loser mates could justify a response. Your attacks regarding representation should be aimed at the coaches who are refusing to give our best youth a go, yet you are hell bent on criticising our new CEO for allowing our best kids to represent their country and region on the international stage as a "junket"... how sad you are.
He does have point though Magician, I can understand you standing up for your mate.

[Jim]

Peter has been tour manager for this trip of NNSW representatives for nearly 10 years, originally NSWF and NNSWF would create a combined squad of players. But 5 years ago FNSW ceased the participation. As an A Licence coach he also coached the team for a few years when NNSWF had no TD in residence.

And maybe his ticket was booked way before Elland was ousted and the CEO position become vacant and he applied for and was successful.

Regardless of the motives the trip has become an annual occurrence for nearly a decade giving our players a football experience they will not forget.

You are obviously affilitated with the other guy that did not get the job, and the social media attacks towards Peter criticising decisions obviously made months ago speaks volumes to the saltiness of your mate not being a suitable candidate.

You and your mates are exactly what is wrong with our game and the white anting from within that never allows the game to flourish at its potential. We finally have a club person, a local administrator who has fantastic relationships with the zones and a decorated player leading our game.Who hasnt been in the job for a month, but is getting attacked that it is his fault the region doesnt have adequate representation at national and international levels for the past 14 years.

If the Ceo of Nnswf was so powerful to have input on the Jets lineup each week then you and your loser mates could justify a response. Your attacks regarding representation should be aimed at the coaches who are refusing to give our best youth a go, yet you are hell bent on criticising our new CEO for allowing our best kids to represent their country and region on the international stage as a "junket"... how sad you are.

This response is defensive drivel and the personal attacks also warrants a return of serve.
First, because its always been done doesnt make it right and next its a rort NNSW can afford.

As for the personal attacks thats make you the ahole as usual.

[jessepinkman]

Peter has been tour manager for this trip of NNSW representatives for nearly 10 years, originally NSWF and NNSWF would create a combined squad of players. But 5 years ago FNSW ceased the participation. As an A Licence coach he also coached the team for a few years when NNSWF had no TD in residence.

And maybe his ticket was booked way before Elland was ousted and the CEO position become vacant and he applied for and was successful.

Regardless of the motives the trip has become an annual occurrence for nearly a decade giving our players a football experience they will not forget.

You are obviously affilitated with the other guy that did not get the job, and the social media attacks towards Peter criticising decisions obviously made months ago speaks volumes to the saltiness of your mate not being a suitable candidate.

You and your mates are exactly what is wrong with our game and the white anting from within that never allows the game to flourish at its potential. We finally have a club person, a local administrator who has fantastic relationships with the zones and a decorated player leading our game.Who hasnt been in the job for a month, but is getting attacked that it is his fault the region doesnt have adequate representation at national and international levels for the past 14 years.

If the Ceo of Nnswf was so powerful to have input on the Jets lineup each week then you and your loser mates could justify a response. Your attacks regarding representation should be aimed at the coaches who are refusing to give our best youth a go, yet you are hell bent on criticising our new CEO for allowing our best kids to represent their country and region on the international stage as a "junket"... how sad you are.

What a ridiculous post, I dont know anyone who applied for the job nor do I have any knowledge of anyone who applied for the job. I just made an observation, if you're this defensive then maybe something is there to be defensive about? I'm not sure, but I am just asking the question. When did I call it a junket too? I literally just asked why the new CEO would go on this trip.

I just am, like everyone else here, free and able to question the dollar spend of the private organisation I pay fees to.

Im a bit blown away by your response, perhaps you think im someone im not, or perhaps you're extra defensive on behalf of a 'mate'.

[Hunter403]

Back to football...there was some good football today (mixed in with some interesting refereeing and red cards in the 18s) between Westy and Kahibah youth in all grades. Both clubs really trying to develop good football teams. Great to watch.

[magician]

This response is defensive drivel and the personal attacks also warrants a return of serve.
First, because its always been done doesnt make it right and next its a rort NNSW can afford.

As for the personal attacks thats make you the ahole as usual.

And you expect anything different from someone from magic 🤷*♂️

[Taffy]

*snip*

What a defensive post, I understand Peter is an ex-Magic player and in his past roles with Northern have helped out Magic immensely so of course your will support someone who favours Magic.

The rest of your post is dribble that goes on about things that weren't raised in the original post.

[Taffy]

Back to football...there was some good football today (mixed in with some interesting refereeing and red cards in the 18s) between Westy and Kahibah youth in all grades. Both clubs really trying to develop good football teams. Great to watch.

What about the 7 red cards handed out in the 18s?

[JettyJet]

Does the kids rego money cover the new CEOs all expenses paid trip to Japan with the 14s???

Why does the CEO need to go on this trip at all?

A number of the touring party are covered most generously by the hosts, previous people who have had his role have gone in the past. NNSW is very lucky to be annually offered this opportunity over other representatives from Australia. Diplomatically if the CEO is invited it would be very disrespectful not to attend! . The Tournament is seen as an opportunity to forge relationships abroad and strengthen relationships that could possibly lead to teams touring NNSW etc. Also it's the year 2023, large parts of his role can be performed remotely.

[KITZ]

TSP isn't a team though. Arguably they are mostly just helping along those tier 1s (whose.players make up the bulk of the inclusions) by giving some of their kids an extra night to train with other quality kids (nothing wrong with that either)...my concept would be more like that TSP team forming a regular season team, competing up an age group for greater challenge (not just physically, but the speed of decision making)...with a focus less so on "winning" (that clubs especially need to be mindful of now due to the pro/rel of kids sport (adults should have this system, well before any kids teams), and more about the long term development of some of our hugely talented kids :)

And offers a transition step to and from the Jets

So I think what I have suggested is quite different in that regard

If you were going to do that you wouldn't bother playing up an age in Newcastle, you'd register a rep team under NSW football (like NSW football have in their girls institute) and register them to play NPL in Sydney. Top of NPL2 / NPL 1 is where you get the football that's going to make players that either go further or play senior football in Newcastle or elsewhere. A rep team from NNSW should compete at least at that level, any lower than that and might as well stay here but have reasonable expectations that is the limit of development on offer.

[WOW2.0]

@Kit

Sad to interject into the above discussion re: trip to Japan...learn a lot when people argue :P

We already have a local team playing in FNSW (the Jets)...I don't think tier 2 in Sydney is worth the travel (personally), an age group up though there's the crux of a challenge :)

[Jim]

A number of the touring party are covered most generously by the hosts, previous people who have had his role have gone in the past. NNSW is very lucky to be annually offered this opportunity over other representatives from Australia. Diplomatically if the CEO is invited it would be very disrespectful not to attend! . The Tournament is seen as an opportunity to forge relationships abroad and strengthen relationships that could possibly lead to teams touring NNSW etc. Also it's the year 2023, large parts of his role can be performed remotely.

Yeah nah. nice happy clappy story there but most can see through these charades now.

Its a junket for the well to do. Do some research

[Hunter403]

What about the 7 red cards handed out in the 18s?

I've told you thousands of times not to exaggerate :roflz:......there were 4 reds to one side with one being for a team official. Doesn't mean there wasn't some good football played across the day and even within that match.

[Jim]

If you were going to do that you wouldn't bother playing up an age in Newcastle, you'd register a rep team under NSW football (like NSW football have in their girls institute) and register them to play NPL in Sydney. Top of NPL2 / NPL 1 is where you get the football that's going to make players that either go further or play senior football in Newcastle or elsewhere. A rep team from NNSW should compete at least at that level, any lower than that and might as well stay here but have reasonable expectations that is the limit of development on offer.

Great concept but imo and age up here should do the trick. Suppose it depends if we'd get enough families committing to the travel for a full season and the extra fees.

[Taffy]

I've told you thousands of times not to exaggerate

I hope that was on purpose

[QUOTE}there were 4 reds to one side with one being for a team official.[/QUOTE]

I was told by Westy people that was 3 players two officials which makes 5

[Hunter403]

I hope that was on purpose

there were 4 reds to one side with one being for a team official.

I was told by Westy people that was 3 players two officials which makes 5

3 and 1 as I recall unless I missed something. There was so much going on there might have been more, but I didn't see it. Hope not.
Yes, on purpose. It's an old joke.

[Captain_Carl]

The JDL program has produced a higher standard of technical ability,but it hasnt benefited clubs who developed them.Your example above if Im correct had their 2 best kids go to the superteam that was almost entirely recruited from outside their own juniors.Does that make the recruiting club succesful?Problem will be that the superclub will lose players next year to various other programs and will recruit from outside again.So the club will look good from afar from a results basis but what have they actually done to raise the standard of the whole age group?and most importantly,is it the clubs job to train the kids or just recruit?Because there is no benefit to developing is there?On the flip side the consistent top 3 youth clubs develop kids, the Jets and other higher levels come and take them and what do they get for it?Then they are forced to recruit outside their kids and everyone blames them for buying a comp.The only upside is that we stay the course,get NNSW to bring more and more kids into the JDL structure and hopefully give the clubs a reason to keep developing them.The downside is if we go back to the old system,it becomes more exclusive and we end up like the womens NPL where the top tier talent just goes to where the best deal is and walks the comp every year.The JDL system needs a good generation to even begin to get real results.Im happy to keep it going.

JDL has produced a higher standard of technical ability compared to what? Surely not compared to Zone SAP?

[Aegon]

JDL has produced a higher standard of technical ability compared to what? Surely not compared to Zone SAP?

100%

The most important factor is that kids develop at different stages.
Rather than only 40 odd kids being developed at an earlier age you now have 100+
Under zone SAP kids who got in were not often replaced, now you have 100-200 kids receiving an equivalent level of training and it's very apparent that the best 9 and 10 year olds are not necessarily the best 11, 12 or 13 year olds.
Many kids who are in the Jets or TSP in 13's and 14's were not the best kids in their early JDL/SAP years.

[WOW2.0]

@Aegon..."...it's very apparent that the best 9 and 10 year olds are not necessarily the best 11, 12 or 13 year olds.
Many kids who are in the Jets or TSP in 13's and 14's were not the best kids in their early JDL/SAP years."

I think it's fair to say that likewise the best 11, 12 and 13s will not necessarily be the best 15, 16 and 17 year olds too


What you said also checks out with statistics from Germany's development system, that shows next to no kids who received specialised (SAP/JDL type) training at a young age make it far in their football endeavours, the majority of those who do make it in their system apparently only begin "proper" coaching from the age of 17 and upwards

Details in this documentary you might find interesting: https://youtu.be/3beI0f8G-3A

[sapdad]

What you said also checks out with statistics from Germany's development system, that shows next to no kids who received specialised (SAP/JDL type) training at a young age make it far in their football endeavours, the majority of those who do make it in their system apparently only begin "proper" coaching from the age of 17 and upwards

I still maintain that its not the program itself thats the problem,its the way coaches are implementing it.To see how many kids are now in NPL youth that have spent 4 years in JDL but cant use both feet, cant shoot and have zero close control is pretty depressing.But they are big and strong and run fast so they get spots and when everyone else catches up physically then are discarded because they arent good enough.Id love to tell every JDL parent out there that if your kid isnt focusing on the 4 core skills of the program then give up now because their shelf life is limited and to save the money.Its hard to blame coaches though when the pressure from everyone involved from day 1 is judged by winning.Theres honestly no simple answer.

[Taffy]

I still maintain that its not the program itself thats the problem,its the way coaches are implementing it.To see how many kids are now in NPL youth that have spent 4 years in JDL but cant use both feet, cant shoot and have zero close control is pretty depressing.But they are big and strong and run fast so they get spots and when everyone else catches up physically then are discarded because they arent good enough.Id love to tell every JDL parent out there that if your kid isnt focusing on the 4 core skills of the program then give up now because their shelf life is limited and to save the money.Its hard to blame coaches though when the pressure from everyone involved from day 1 is judged by winning.Theres honestly no simple answer.

Well of course there needs to be better coaching which comes from better coach development, but I see kids who came through the old SAP program (the last of which are currently in U15s and having been involved in the SAP program and now in Div 1 I know who they are) and I still see many of them that can't use both feet, don't know how to control a ball, can't shoot, don't know how to position themselves to make a touch forward as well.

[WOW2.0]

I haven't noticed anyone really following the curriculum (much maligned as it is)...

Decoupling probably only makes that propensity toward recruiting whoever is biggest, strongest and fastest, over development, even worse...(less drive to develop potentially very talented kids, and mistaking winning for development, etc)

I guess that's why the private academies are so popular...an acknowledgement that the clubs aren't so capable of developing kids... maybe (in a best attempt to be diplomatic)

[sapdad]

Well of course there needs to be better coaching which comes from better coach development, but I see kids who came through the old SAP program (the last of which are currently in U15s and having been involved in the SAP program and now in Div 1 I know who they are) and I still see many of them that can't use both feet, don't know how to control a ball, can't shoot, don't know how to position themselves to make a touch forward as well.

Im not advocating for the old system if thats the impression you got from my post.I am saying that the framework is correct,the implementation is incorrect.A lot of clubs and coaches are doing a great job.Some are not.Id love to see NNSW spend more time with coaches helping them.Even if its down to dedicated assessors at the facility every time NPL youth play North Coast, just to have a look over each club,making recommendations or following up on things they see.Every little bit helps.

[jessepinkman]

I guess that's why the private academies are so popular...an acknowledgement that the clubs aren't so capable of developing kids... maybe (in a best attempt to be diplomatic)

Private academies exist because parents will open their wallet for an ex a league player or a coach with a licence that?s hard to fail but costs a lot of coin to achieve

I would say there are less private academies where you?d get your $ worth than there is clubs where you?d get your $ worth

[WOW2.0]

...I wish I had such a wallet :P ��

[sapdad]

Does anyone know if all clubs are playing in the knockout cup?I was told theres a few NPL and NL1 youth teams not in it.

[Reds Forever]

Does anyone know if all clubs are playing in the knockout cup?I was told theres a few NPL and NL1 youth teams not in it.

Yes, all teams were in draw. Just checked video again which had list of teams. Some teams have byes in most age groups as they drew community clubs with only 1 team entered.

[Aegon]

Yes, all teams were in draw. Just checked video again which had list of teams. Some teams have byes in most age groups as they drew community clubs with only 1 team entered.

Is there a cup draw available anywhere apart from the video?
Can’t find it on squadi (pile of shit) or anywhere else.

[sapdad]

Yes, all teams were in draw. Just checked video again which had list of teams. Some teams have byes in most age groups as they drew community clubs with only 1 team entered.
Thank you.

[Reds Forever]

Thank you.

Worked out the confusion. No games involving community sides are in squadi as community football is not using squadi so squads and teams not uploaded.

[sapdad]

Does anyone know whats going on with round 2 of the youth cup? Are there supposed to be games this weekend because theres no draw available and we were told the boys would be playing both weekends during the break from NPL fixtures.

[Taffy]

Does anyone know whats going on with round 2 of the youth cup? Are there supposed to be games this weekend because theres no draw available and we were told the boys would be playing both weekends during the break from NPL fixtures.

Round 2 is 15th/16th July, pretty sure this weekend is free for Div 1 teams because Div2 teams have extra games to play each other twice.

[sapdad]

Round 2 is 15th/16th July, pretty sure this weekend is free for Div 1 teams because Div2 teams have extra games to play each other twice.

Ok thanks.

[Reds Forever]

Round 2 is 15th/16th July, pretty sure this weekend is free for Div 1 teams because Div2 teams have extra games to play each other twice.

Makes sense now. Wish parents and players were communicated this, many could have gone away during break but held off expecting round 2 this weekend. Thought it was strange seeing NPL clubs arrange catch up games for this weekend.

Also explains why North Coast and Magic are not playing their round 1 game until 20th May. Although means both clubs have gone 3 weeks in between matches.

[Taffy]

Makes sense now. Wish parents and players were communicated this, many could have gone away during break but held off expecting round 2 this weekend. Thought it was strange seeing NPL clubs arrange catch up games for this weekend.

Also explains why North Coast and Magic are not playing their round 1 game until 20th May. Although means both clubs have gone 3 weeks in between matches.

Maybe best to speak to your club, my son's club was given the full schedule at the start of the year, telling us to expect games first weekend of May.

[sapdad]

Maybe best to speak to your club, my son's club was given the full schedule at the start of the year, telling us to expect games first weekend of May.

Our club and the club we played in the first round of the knockout were both under the impression that both weekends off were going to have games played on them (last weekend and this weekend).Theres been a breakdown in communication along the lines there somewhere thats for sure.Im not blaming anyone because I dont know.I think the travel aspect has left a few clubs less than impressed.We heard that one club forfeited all grades,they were expected to travel 3 hours on relatively short notice,and another changed the date of their game to avoid doing a 4 hour trip.

[The Hacker]

Our club and the club we played in the first round of the knockout were both under the impression that both weekends off were going to have games played on them (last weekend and this weekend).Theres been a breakdown in communication along the lines there somewhere thats for sure.Im not blaming anyone because I dont know.I think the travel aspect has left a few clubs less than impressed.We heard that one club forfeited all grades,they were expected to travel 3 hours on relatively short notice,and another changed the date of their game to avoid doing a 4 hour trip.

Who forfeited that?s not ideal

[Taffy]

Who forfeited that?s not ideal

Thornton did, 3 hours there, the draw was done a month ago so would say there was quite a bit of notice, but maybe they were only told the ground the week of since Mid Coast can play all over the place. Obviously Magic and Coffs could just play their league game as scheduled and count it as both. Similar to how Coffs 14s are doing it for the Pre-Season Cup final.

[KITZ]

Thornton did, 3 hours there, the draw was done a month ago so would say there was quite a bit of notice, but maybe they were only told the ground the week of since Mid Coast can play all over the place. Obviously Magic and Coffs could just play their league game as scheduled and count it as both. Similar to how Coffs 14s are doing it for the Pre-Season Cup final.

Its never been 3 hours to Taree.

if only they realised those kids do that trip every second week.

[Reds Forever]

Its never been 3 hours to Taree.

if only they realised those kids do that trip every second week.

Mid Coast had games arranged for Port Mac which is 3 hours away.

[Taffy]

Yeah game was at Port Mac, that's poor form though

[KITZ]

Yeah game was at Port Mac, that's poor form though

A bit further, but still isn't that part of the fun of a tournament like that, the kids get to do something different and exciting. Book a caravan park bunk in to save money etc.

Probably not an opportunity many of them will get again. That's a shame, it's only the kids that end up missing out. Hopefully northern can think about that for the next time its run.

[Captain_Carl]

A bit further, but still isn't that part of the fun of a tournament like that, the kids get to do something different and exciting. Book a caravan park bunk in to save money etc.

Probably not an opportunity many of them will get again. That's a shame, it's only the kids that end up missing out. Hopefully northern can think about that for the next time its run.

Caravans can be a lot of fun. It reminds me of the tv show Trailer Park Boys. Road trips for teams promote team bonding and that is a positive in my book. I can't wait to see the games for the next round. Go Valo!

[ABCDEF]

Can anyone shed some light on how the youth cup works? On squadi the first round includes 18 teams/9 games and Edgeworth, Lambton, Belswans and Lakes aren?t in it.
Did these sides have a bye first round? I heard there were community teams involved in this comp too, so did they play them? And if so why isn?t it on squadi

[Reds Forever]

Can anyone shed some light on how the youth cup works? On squadi the first round includes 18 teams/9 games and Edgeworth, Lambton, Belswans and Lakes aren?t in it.
Did these sides have a bye first round? I heard there were community teams involved in this comp too, so did they play them? And if so why isn?t it on squadi

Community teams that entered usually only had 1 age group. So any clubs from NPL or League One that drew a community side found most age groups with a bye. Squadi is not showing any teams that had a bye in round 1. Am not sure if any games involving community sides are in Squadi as they don't use it for Community football so won't have players in database.

[Mad with football]

I have just looked at the PYL club championship points table ( did it myself as there does not appear to be one provided by NNSW) and only 1 surprise IMO with the top 6, as Valo ranking 4th!
Not sure what they settled on for tier 2, but clubs like Adamstown, Azzurri, , New Lambton ( to be expected) Cooks Hill are MILES behind the others and have been for years.
It shows me that not much has changed in youth for years and with these clubs going to Tier 2 it won?t, although clubs like Valo & Maitland have made big gains

[sapdad]

I have just looked at the PYL club championship points table ( did it myself as there does not appear to be one provided by NNSW) and only 1 surprise IMO with the top 6, as Valo ranking 4th!
Not sure what they settled on for tier 2, but clubs like Adamstown, Azzurri, , New Lambton ( to be expected) Cooks Hill are MILES behind the others and have been for years.
It shows me that not much has changed in youth for years and with these clubs going to Tier 2 it won?t, although clubs like Valo & Maitland have made big gains

Valo recruited very well and have a good coaching setup.Maitland have been improving for years and have had kids leave for higher level opportunites,something Valo will have to contend with going forward.Azzuri and Adamstown suffer from lack of numbers.Cooks Hill and Lakes are both on really good trajectories.The one to watch going forward may be Edgeworth.Mid table in most grades but have a strong 13s team.Not sure thats where they want to be.New Lambton have had a tough introduction and year 2 may be even tougher.The 2nd tier will be really good for the whole youth structure,some clubs are just in denial about it.As long as they keep bringing enough clubs back up each year it wont hurt.

[Oldy]

I have just looked at the PYL club championship points table ( did it myself as there does not appear to be one provided by NNSW) and only 1 surprise IMO with the top 6, as Valo ranking 4th!
Not sure what they settled on for tier 2, but clubs like Adamstown, Azzurri, , New Lambton ( to be expected) Cooks Hill are MILES behind the others and have been for years.
It shows me that not much has changed in youth for years and with these clubs going to Tier 2 it won?t, although clubs like Valo & Maitland have made big gains

I have Valo 5th. Some clubs have some extra catchup games but the bottom 6 should stay.

9-14th in order are
Weston Workers
Adamstown Rosebud
Lake Macquarie City
New Lambton
Charlestown Azzurri (no 16s)
Cooks Hill United

[sapdad]

I have Valo 5th. Some clubs have some extra catchup games but the bottom 6 should stay.

9-14th in order are
Weston Workers
Adamstown Rosebud
Lake Macquarie City
New Lambton
Charlestown Azzurri (no 16s)
Cooks Hill United

If its not too much trouble would you mind posting the rest of the list if you have it?Id be very interested to see which clubs are hovering around the 6-8 mark.Also I have heard comments about it being weighted with more points awarded to 18s and 16s.Does anyone know if this is true?

[Taffy]

I have just looked at the PYL club championship points table ( did it myself as there does not appear to be one provided by NNSW) and only 1 surprise IMO with the top 6, as Valo ranking 4th!

Valo being up there isn't that much of a surprise, they were about 6th or 7th last year and as someone said they recruited well to move up a couple positions. Their 13s were a good pick up bringing in most of a team from Charlestown, wonder if the Charlestown committee are kicking themselves for telling their dominant 12s team last year that they wouldn't be given retentions and everyone has to trial.

[Taffy]

9-14th in order are
Weston Workers
Adamstown Rosebud
Lake Macquarie City
New Lambton
Charlestown Azzurri (no 16s)
Cooks Hill United

Weston to me is a big surprise, I know the stage isn't over yet but they have made some big strides over the past couple years.


If its not too much trouble would you mind posting the rest of the list if you have it?Id be very interested to see which clubs are hovering around the 6-8 mark.Also I have heard comments about it being weighted with more points awarded to 18s and 16s.Does anyone know if this is true?

It's not true, people really spread some silly stories around, had one TD ranting about how Mid Coast and North Coast will always stay up which isn't true either.

[Taffy]

The one to watch going forward may be Edgeworth.Mid table in most grades but have a strong 13s team.Not sure thats where they want to be.

Probably won't matter to the 13s team provided the club stays top 8 every year. Seems the other ages have dropped off from where those players were last year. Most mid table except their 14s which are nearly last, what happened there they were 5th last year.

[sapdad]

It's not true, people really spread some silly stories around, had one TD ranting about how Mid Coast and North Coast will always stay up which isn't true either.

Thanks for clearing that up.Id been told about the North Coast/Mid Coast thing as well but was sure that wasnt true.

[Aegon]

1826
1827

[ForeverRed]

When does the change over occur

[sapdad]

When does the change over occur

There are 4 rounds to go but some clubs have washouts to catch up on.

[ForeverRed]

There are 4 rounds to go but some clubs have washouts to catch up on.
Thank you

[sapdad]

It's not true, people really spread some silly stories around, had one TD ranting about how Mid Coast and North Coast will always stay up which isn't true either.

You seem to be fairly well informed on all these matters,do you know if its true that clubs who dont field all age groups are getting sent to the 3rd tier at the cutoff or are they just going down to the 2nd tier if they are in the bottom 6 group?Its the other weird one I had heard around the traps.

[Taffy]

You seem to be fairly well informed on all these matters,do you know if its true that clubs who dont field all age groups are getting sent to the 3rd tier at the cutoff or are they just going down to the 2nd tier if they are in the bottom 6 group?Its the other weird one I had heard around the traps.

No, that's false, though Northern have said that you can't be in NPL and not have all youth grades, clubs without full teams have a years grace to fill them the following year. Will be interesting to see if Northern follow through on that for Azzurri if Azzurri don't get full teams next year.

https://www.northernnswfootball.com.au/competitions/premier-youth-league

[sapdad]

No, that's false, though Northern have said that you can't be in NPL and not have all youth grades, clubs without full teams have a years grace to fill them the following year. Will be interesting to see if Northern follow through on that for Azzurri if Azzurri don't get full teams next year.

https://www.northernnswfootball.com.au/competitions/premier-youth-league

Thanks for clearing that up.

[WOW2.0]

I think we can already see some unfortunate losers in the new pro/rel

Charlestown 14s are a very decent squad and have troubled a lot of bigger clubs, and I believe Weston 14s are 2nd on the ladder at the moment (with 3 games left to run)...

I feel sorry for those kids...and I imagine the net result will be those strong squads almost lifting and shifting entirely at the end of the season...or at least the core of those teams seperating to many different clubs. Same for any others in that basket (I haven't seen all the tables)...while, Edgeworth 14s having a very poor year apparently using a "get out of jail" card

Really should have been on an individual team basis...just like the Victorians run their youth system (as I talked about before)

[sapdad]

I think we can already see some unfortunate losers in the new pro/rel

Charlestown 14s are a very decent squad and have troubled a lot of bigger clubs, and I believe Weston 14s are 2nd on the ladder at the moment (with 3 games left to run)...

I feel sorry for those kids...and I imagine the net result will be those strong squads almost lifting and shifting entirely at the end of the season...or at least the core of those teams seperating to many different clubs. Same for any others in that basket (I haven't seen all the tables)...while, Edgeworth 14s having a very poor year apparently using a "get out of jail" card

Really should have been on an individual team basis...just like the Victorians run their youth system (as I talked about before)

I'm in and around the 13s and 14s this season,judging by the tables I've seen Weston should stay up if they have a decent last few rounds and yes their 14s are doing very well.Charestown are effective,they are mid table but havent beaten anyone above them on the table so far.I dont disagree that there may be hard done by teams out there but on the whole the system will work by dropping clubs down as long as plenty (4 isnt it) come back up to start next year.For the short term we have to give up any dreams of doing it by teams as the logistics just wont work even though I totally agree with you that it would be the best long term solution.The 2nd tier with the 6 NPL1 clubs and Bel Swans + South Cardiff should be really interesting and I can honestly see both NPL2 clubs making it to NPL the following year,and good on them thats how the system should work.

[BS detecor]

I think we can already see some unfortunate losers in the new pro/rel

Charlestown 14s are a very decent squad and have troubled a lot of bigger clubs, and I believe Weston 14s are 2nd on the ladder at the moment (with 3 games left to run)...

I feel sorry for those kids...and I imagine the net result will be those strong squads almost lifting and shifting entirely at the end of the season...or at least the core of those teams seperating to many different clubs. Same for any others in that basket (I haven't seen all the tables)...while, Edgeworth 14s having a very poor year apparently using a "get out of jail" card

Really should have been on an individual team basis...just like the Victorians run their youth system (as I talked about before)

Weston currently sitting in the last tier 1 spot

[Hunter403]

The NL1 club championship is pretty well finalised but there is still some interest in the NPL club championship. The remaining matches before the 3 group split have little meaning in NL1. Next we dive into the 3 group phase. Tier 1 and 2 will each have 8 teams and tier 3 only 6 (less in some age groups). Table resets and there is only one round so you have 7 or 5(-) games (depending on your tier) to make the finals.

The lack of referees being assigned in this "premier" competition indicates that NNSW need to get their shit together in regards to the draw. When fees are as high as they are, it is unacceptable for games to be refereed by a coach or official from the home club with no linesmen. Just not good enough.

[Taffy]

Had to watch a club official line for a 1st grade game the other day, refs are a scarce resource.

[Aegon]

Treatment of refs in general by players, coaches and spectators is very poor.

I do not blame the ones who give up on it as the constant negativity would be draining and lead to a lack of enjoyment on their part.

One thing the associations could fix would be to remove the $150 fee to complete the Level 4 course in order to encourage more people to get qualified.

[Taffy]

Treatment of refs in general by players, coaches and spectators is very poor.

I do not blame the ones who give up on it as the constant negativity would be draining and lead to a lack of enjoyment on their part.

One thing the associations could fix would be to remove the $150 fee to complete the Level 4 course in order to encourage more people to get qualified.

Yeah people carrying on like galahs, over youth games really need to get a grip. No one will remember who won the U15 game on the first weekend of July 2023 within 12 months

[sapdad]

The NL1 club championship is pretty well finalised but there is still some interest in the NPL club championship. The remaining matches before the 3 group split have little meaning in NL1. Next we dive into the 3 group phase. Tier 1 and 2 will each have 8 teams and tier 3 only 6 (less in some age groups). Table resets and there is only one round so you have 7 or 5(-) games (depending on your tier) to make the finals.

The lack of referees being assigned in this "premier" competition indicates that NNSW need to get their shit together in regards to the draw. When fees are as high as they are, it is unacceptable for games to be refereed by a coach or official from the home club with no linesmen. Just not good enough.

Have they confirmed how many teams will go back up to NPL1 to start 2024?Also,my sons club must have been lucky with referees as he has yet to have less than a full compliment for every match home and away.The only time I saw any issues was last year on a midweek catchup game where officials ran lines but that was hastily organised amongst the weather dramas.As for parents/crowd behaviour it was way worse in JDL than its been in NPL.Of course it hasnt been without incident.The best solutions ive seen have all come from clubs starting to move kids and parents on who are too much to handle,its youth NPL no kid is good enough that clubs need to put up with idiot parents.More power to the clubs that are cleaning up this stuff.

[Taffy]

Have they confirmed how many teams will go back up to NPL1 to start 2024?

https://www.northernnswfootball.com.au/competitions/premier-youth-league

Top 4 teams from PYLB will go to PYL1 for the next season.


Also,my sons club must have been lucky with referees as he has yet to have less than a full compliment for every match home and away.

You must be at one of Northern's favoured clubs

[JustMe]

Club championship pts with 2 rounds left
1 Lambton Jaffas FC 130
2 Newcastle Olympic FC 119
3 Broadmeadow Magic FC 118
4 Maitland FC 108
5 Edgeworth FC 99
6 Valentine FC 90
7 North Coast Football 78
8 Mid Coast FC 65
9 Weston Workers FC 65
10 Lake Macquarie City FC 52
11 Adamstown Rosebud FC 46
12 Charlestown Azzurri FC 41
13 New Lambton FC 33
14 Cooks Hill United FC 24

1 Belswans 145
2 South Cardiff 121
3 West Wallsend 89
4 Thornton 59
5 NIAS 59
6 Cessnock 58
7 Kahibah 58
8 Singleton 21
9 Wallsend 2
10 Toronto 0

Weston and mid coast level pegging for 8/9th. Wonder if theyll let Mid coast drop to 2nd tier? Belswans and Southy to go up

[sapdad]

Does anyone know if teams are playing the very next week after the current draw?It is going to be a very quick turnaround especially if teams are expected to travel to Tamworth,Taree or Coffs on less than a weeks notice.Top 8 is as it should be,great for Southy and Belswans,and good for the clubs 9-14.I think this will be a really good thing for the long term strength of the comp and player development in our region.I just hope everyone is patient with it to give it a fair go.

[Hunter403]

The weekend of the 15th is the next cup game, so I guess the last round will start after that. NL1 youth has just been trial games for a few weeks now. The results are meaningless, the points, goals etc don't count. Basically there has been nothing to play for now for some time.

[Reds Forever]

Club championship pts with 2 rounds left
1 Lambton Jaffas FC 130
2 Newcastle Olympic FC 119
3 Broadmeadow Magic FC 118
4 Maitland FC 108
5 Edgeworth FC 99
6 Valentine FC 90
7 North Coast Football 78
8 Mid Coast FC 65
9 Weston Workers FC 65
10 Lake Macquarie City FC 52
11 Adamstown Rosebud FC 46
12 Charlestown Azzurri FC 41
13 New Lambton FC 33
14 Cooks Hill United FC 24

1 Belswans 145
2 South Cardiff 121
3 West Wallsend 89
4 Thornton 59
5 NIAS 59
6 Cessnock 58
7 Kahibah 58
8 Singleton 21
9 Wallsend 2
10 Toronto 0

Weston and mid coast level pegging for 8/9th. Wonder if theyll let Mid coast drop to 2nd tier? Belswans and Southy to go up

Official ladder on Northern website has Weston 8th and MC 9th.

https://www.northernnswfootball.com.au/sites/nnswf/files/2023-06/PYL%20Club%20Championship%20260623.pdf

[Hunter403]

Does anyone know if teams are playing the very next week after the current draw?It is going to be a very quick turnaround especially if teams are expected to travel to Tamworth,Taree or Coffs on less than a weeks notice.Top 8 is as it should be,great for Southy and Belswans,and good for the clubs 9-14.I think this will be a really good thing for the long term strength of the comp and player development in our region.I just hope everyone is patient with it to give it a fair go.

The last round, group 3 will comprise only 6 teams in some ages and 5 in others. They play each other once for semi spots. Not ideal at all. Semis (and let's face it, that is what Australian sport is about) will come down to 4 or 5 games (depending on the age group).

[sapdad]

The last round, group 3 will comprise only 6 teams in some ages and 5 in others. They play each other once for semi spots. Not ideal at all. Semis (and let's face it, that is what Australian sport is about) will come down to 4 or 5 games (depending on the age group).

I get your point,but in the long run the hope is obviously that there is a full compliment of 8 teams in each division.So until then do the other 22 clubs wait around for that or do we just get on with it?

[Reds Forever]

The last round, group 3 will comprise only 6 teams in some ages and 5 in others. They play each other once for semi spots. Not ideal at all. Semis (and let's face it, that is what Australian sport is about) will come down to 4 or 5 games (depending on the age group).

Didn't think there was semi finals for tier 2 and 3. Straight to Grand Final for top 2.

[JustMe]

The last round, group 3 will comprise only 6 teams in some ages and 5 in others. They play each other once for semi spots. Not ideal at all. Semis (and let's face it, that is what Australian sport is about) will come down to 4 or 5 games (depending on the age group).

Bad luck. Not being competitive is a disservice for football and the teams they play.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Think it’ll be really interesting to see how Southy and Belswans go.

[ForeverRed]

Go the gunners, back where they belong

[sapdad]

Go the gunners, back where they belong

I think both clubs will be more than competitive against the NPL1 opposition.Just rewards for doing things the right way in youth over the last few years.

[Hunter403]

Belswans will do quite well in all ages.
Southy will do ok in the younger ages, but their 18s and 16s will struggle.

[Hunter403]

Didn't think there was semi finals for tier 2 and 3. Straight to Grand Final for top 2.

Clubs complained and I understand that NNSWF has changed to meet club desires.

[Hunter403]

I get your point,but in the long run the hope is obviously that there is a full compliment of 8 teams in each division.So until then do the other 22 clubs wait around for that or do we just get on with it?

There has been some talk of inviting community clubs to fill the void. Not sure if anything will come of it.

[Hunter403]

I think we can already see some unfortunate losers in the new pro/rel

Charlestown 14s are a very decent squad and have troubled a lot of bigger clubs, and I believe Weston 14s are 2nd on the ladder at the moment (with 3 games left to run)...

I feel sorry for those kids...and I imagine the net result will be those strong squads almost lifting and shifting entirely at the end of the season...or at least the core of those teams seperating to many different clubs. Same for any others in that basket (I haven't seen all the tables)...while, Edgeworth 14s having a very poor year apparently using a "get out of jail" card

Really should have been on an individual team basis...just like the Victorians run their youth system (as I talked about before)

Apparently the issue was that with ages being separated by distance, you couldn't call, say, an under 13 to back up for 14s. One solution if prom/relegation was age based would be to play 13,15 and 18s on Saturday and 14s and 16s on Sunday. Should solve that issue except for the regional teams.

[Taffy]

Weston and mid coast level pegging for 8/9th. Wonder if theyll let Mid coast drop to 2nd tier? Belswans and Southy to go up

You think they will tell the refs to make sure Weston lose their games and Mid Coast to win their games?

[JustMe]

https://www.northernnswfootball.com.au/sites/nnswf/files/2023-07/PYL%20Club%20Championship%20030723.pdf

I think West Wallsend with their 96 pts deserve a crack at the 2nd tier than cookers with their 24 pts.

[KITZ]

https://www.northernnswfootball.com.au/sites/nnswf/files/2023-07/PYL%20Club%20Championship%20030723.pdf

I think West Wallsend with their 96 pts deserve a crack at the 2nd tier than cookers with their 24 pts.

how do you even get there? If WW were in NPL they'd probably have 24 points as well. It is not a like for like competition.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Don’t disagree. But I guess there will always be a club that “just misses”.

Unless last place from tier 1 phase 1 goes into tier 3 in phase 2. And allow 3 teams to jump into phase 2 tier 2.

But then what do you do if last and second last are close? Or if 3rd is way behind. Think the current system is a good compromise.




What happens next year? 23 team (hopefully more)
Is there still phase one with 14 teams, or do we go to 12/12 or 8/8/8?

[sapdad]

I think West Wallsend with their 96 pts deserve a crack at the 2nd tier than cookers with their 24 pts.

I havent seen any of West Wallsends football so its not a criticism of them,but top to bottom Cooks Hill is nowhere near the worst youth club in NPL.From what my club has been told 2024 will start again with 12 and 12 (if they can fill the last 2 spots in youth).If not it will be 12 and 10.

[Aegon]

I havent seen any of West Wallsends football so its not a criticism of them,but top to bottom Cooks Hill is nowhere near the worst youth club in NPL.From what my club has been told 2024 will start again with 12 and 12 (if they can fill the last 2 spots in youth).If not it will be 12 and 10.

If not Cooks Hill then who is?

It wasn't too long ago that people were saying Cooks Hill and New Lambton were better teams than Adamstown, Lakes, Azzurri, Valo, etc. Results are showing that the leap is not easy to take on a weekly basis.

I like the structure of the new competition. Personally I would stick with 8/8/8 or 8/8/6 as opposed to the 12/12 with a midseason split, but I think there is at least the opportunity there for a team that starts off in PYL2 to promote to PYLB mid season and then PYL1 if they can win PYLB club championship.

[AVB]

If not Cooks Hill then who is?

It wasn't too long ago that people were saying Cooks Hill and New Lambton were better teams than Adamstown, Lakes, Azzurri, Valo, etc. Results are showing that the leap is not easy to take on a weekly basis.

I like the structure of the new competition. Personally I would stick with 8/8/8 or 8/8/6 as opposed to the 12/12 with a midseason split, but I think there is at least the opportunity there for a team that starts off in PYL2 to promote to PYLB mid season and then PYL1 if they can win PYLB club championship.

The reality is the leap between the current divisions in massive. Not just in ability but approach.

Cooks Hill have A League Coach Craig Deans and NL have Ex Socceroo Clayon Zane, both running development programs that include 3 times a week training. These approaches will pay off in the long term, as more parents see that they are much better environments for their kids despite the current results.

Does anyone have any insight into who the TDs is Belswans/Southy? I saw Southy advertised for the roles this week?

If we look at only 2023 results, you can already see the chasm between NPL and NL1. CH and NL were both placed in the 2nd tier for the preseason cup and the youth knock out cup.

Between the two clubs they have only lost 2 games. CH lost in u18s to Belswans and in u16s to New Lambton. The results are as follows:
CH
Age Played W D Loss GD
u13s 5 4 1 0 +20
u14s 5 4 1 0 +23
u15s 4 3 1 0 +9
u16s 4 3 0 1 +7
u18s 4 3 0 1 +5

NL
Age Played W D Loss GD
u13s 4 3 1 0 +28
u14s 4 3 2 0 +17
u15s 4 3 1 0 +15
u16s 4 4 0 0 +13
u18s 4 4 0 0 +11

Head to head between Belswans, NL, CH and Southy

CH vs Southy (All Ages)
Played CH Wins Draws Southy Wins GD
5 5 0 0 +16 CH

CH vs Belswans (All Ages)
Played CH Wins Draws Belswans Wins GD
5 4 0 1 +9 CH

NL vs Southy (All Ages)
Played NL Wins Draws Southy Wins GD
2 2 0 0 +5 NL

I know the next argument is going to be "This was preseason, it doesn't count". My response to that is simply, who do you think will have improved more since? The teams with A League TDs training 3 nights a week, playing vs NPL opposition week in week out or the NL1 teams?

[sapdad]

If not Cooks Hill then who is?

It wasn't too long ago that people were saying Cooks Hill and New Lambton were better teams than Adamstown, Lakes, Azzurri, Valo, etc. Results are showing that the leap is not easy to take on a weekly basis.

I was comparing coaching set ups, style of play and improvement from last year.Cooks Hill are going in the right direction.New Lambton can only be judged after year 2,this year was always going to be a massive struggle.Adamstown and Charlestown have gone backwards and their player and coach exodus seem to be getting worse before it gets better.Lakes and Valo are going in the right direction.In my opinion they always need to start the year 12/12.The Bottom 4 clubs need exposure to the top tier if they have any hope of retaining their better kids and seeing the level they need to aspire to.NL/Cooks Hill etc have shown that dominating 2nd div for years does nothing in the long term.It also makes sure that the bottom teams arent copping cricket scores the whole year and the 2nd half can be dedicated to working on improving rather than another round of being cannon fodder.

[Taffy]

Is there still phase one with 14 teams, or do we go to 12/12 or 8/8/8?

It goes 12/12 then split again into 8/8/8

[Taffy]

The split and the change means clubs now need to actually do better otherwise they falter. Lakes have recognised this and done fairly well. Charlestown are languishing. Adamstown seem to be on the right track with their 13s and hopefully will be able to keep them.

Also what was AVBs point threw a lot out there but had no conclusion.

[Taffy]

New fixtures have come out, should be for some good competitions, I see Magic manage to get away without a trip to Coffs meanwhile Edgy have to head up again

[Reds Forever]

New fixtures have come out, should be for some good competitions, I see Magic manage to get away without a trip to Coffs meanwhile Edgy have to head up again

Magic have already been up for the Pre season comp.

[Taffy]

Yes they were meant to go up in the Mid-Season Cup but they agreed with North Coast to play their cup game during the league came and count the result towards both comps

[Hunter403]

Yes, the draw is out and the only really interesting part (if you are not a player or parent) is Group B. Which 4 clubs will go into Group 1 next year and which 4 will be in Group 2?
In other news, the cup and plate are on again this weekend. First round winners are in the cup. First round losers are in the plate. Let's hope that next year that if you lose, you are out and this plate comp goes. Some of the mismatches in the plate are just pointless games that could result in score more in line with rugby league than football or in injury with no benefit to anyone.

[BS detecor]

New fixtures have come out, should be for some good competitions, I see Magic manage to get away without a trip to Coffs meanwhile Edgy have to head up again

Magic got nth coast in the pre season cup and the mid season knockout and the winners get mid coast in taree for the 2nd round. Strange thing to sook about

[BS detecor]

Yes, the draw is out and the only really interesting part (if you are not a player or parent) is Group B. Which 4 clubs will go into Group 1 next year and which 4 will be in Group 2?
In other news, the cup and plate are on again this weekend. First round winners are in the cup. First round losers are in the plate. Let's hope that next year that if you lose, you are out and this plate comp goes. Some of the mismatches in the plate are just pointless games that could result in score more in line with rugby league than football or in injury with no benefit to anyone.

Maybe but it gives teams more football and cup competitions always have mismatches and blowouts.

[northern_swan]

In other news, the cup and plate are on again this weekend. First round winners are in the cup. First round losers are in the plate. Let's hope that next year that if you lose, you are out and this plate comp goes. Some of the mismatches in the plate are just pointless games that could result in score more in line with rugby league than football or in injury with no benefit to anyone.

I agree the outcome hasn’t been as intended by northern. However I think the concept has merit.

Perhaps next year they could look at an England FA cup style concept where different levels of teams are brought in progressively.
Eg, community teams could play a/some rounds (depending on entries), then the tier 2 clubs come in, then the tier 1 come in towards the end.

The whole concept falls down however when a club forfeits every age group when drawn away to a regional club as happened this year.

Another option may be entering the zones community rep teams (the ones that went to Tamworth) to give that initiative more merit, as opposed to community teams, though I note Medowie were comfortable winners over Singleton in the 14s Plate.

All in all, I’m not normally a big fan of many things northern does, but in this instance I applaud them for trying something new

[BS detecor]

To be fair there is going to be some big mismatches in the cup as well

[sapdad]

I agree the outcome hasn?t been as intended by northern. However I think the concept has merit.

Perhaps next year they could look at an England FA cup style concept where different levels of teams are brought in progressively.
Eg, community teams could play a/some rounds (depending on entries), then the tier 2 clubs come in, then the tier 1 come in towards the end.

The whole concept falls down however when a club forfeits every age group when drawn away to a regional club as happened this year.

Another option may be entering the zones community rep teams (the ones that went to Tamworth) to give that initiative more merit, as opposed to community teams, though I note Medowie were comfortable winners over Singleton in the 14s Plate.

All in all, I?m not normally a big fan of many things northern does, but in this instance I applaud them for trying something new

Well said.

[Taffy]

Yes, the draw is out and the only really interesting part (if you are not a player or parent) is Group B. Which 4 clubs will go into Group 1 next year and which 4 will be in Group 2?

While true, in terms of continuing developing players, it will help that in the top 8 and the bottom 8 almost all matches will now be tight and competitive, with like for like playing against each other, which means all kids will develop better and have something to go for and win.

[Taffy]

Magic got nth coast in the pre season cup and the mid season knockout and the winners get mid coast in taree for the 2nd round. Strange thing to sook about

Just interesting that some clubs seem to get favours while we have to travel up to Coffs multiple times. Luck of the draw or just how Northern fixed it?

[Taffy]

I agree the outcome hasn?t been as intended by northern. However I think the concept has merit.

Perhaps next year they could look at an England FA cup style concept where different levels of teams are brought in progressively.
Eg, community teams could play a/some rounds (depending on entries), then the tier 2 clubs come in, then the tier 1 come in towards the end.

The whole concept falls down however when a club forfeits every age group when drawn away to a regional club as happened this year.

Another option may be entering the zones community rep teams (the ones that went to Tamworth) to give that initiative more merit, as opposed to community teams, though I note Medowie were comfortable winners over Singleton in the 14s Plate.

All in all, I?m not normally a big fan of many things northern does, but in this instance I applaud them for trying something new

Not a bad shout, but yes this gives something different for our kids to play in a different environment and tournament. Pre-Season Cup gave the kids the environment to play a group stage and then potentially finals, the league gives them the promotion relegation, then just a league to make finals and now the mid season cup is a good knock-out experience. Additional competition matches is a good things

[BS detecor]

Just interesting that some clubs seem to get favours while we have to travel up to Coffs multiple times. Luck of the draw or just how Northern fixed it?

Didn?t edgy have a bye in the first round of the knockout? I mean everyone knows the club will find any excuse to have a whinge but this is clutching even for them

[ForeverRed]

Just interesting that some clubs seem to get favours while we have to travel up to Coffs multiple times. Luck of the draw or just how Northern fixed it?
These are the type of comments that put a stain on football, all the mums and dads have a conspiracy theory, sad but true.

[Taffy]

There were no byes in the first round, Edgeworth played Warners Bay.

[Hunter403]

Not a bad shout, but yes this gives something different for our kids to play in a different environment and tournament. Pre-Season Cup gave the kids the environment to play a group stage and then potentially finals, the league gives them the promotion relegation, then just a league to make finals and now the mid season cup is a good knock-out experience. Additional competition matches is a good things

Maybe the mid season cup should be based on the division. You will not convince me that an NPL side beating a NL1 side by 10 goals or more does any good for any player.

[BS detecor]

Maybe the mid season cup should be based on the division. You will not convince me that an NPL side beating a NL1 side by 10 goals or more does any good for any player.

Prepares them for the Australia cup in a few years

[WOW2.0]

While true, in terms of continuing developing players, it will help that in the top 8 and the bottom 8 almost all matches will now be tight and competitive, with like for like playing against each other, which means all kids will develop better and have something to go for and win.

But it's not like for like at all, some good teams have been pulled down, and some pretty ordinary teams were kept safe...blow out scotelines will still happen, because they didn't make the promotion and releagtion team based, as opposed to club based

[Hunter403]

But it's not like for like at all, some good teams have been pulled down, and some pretty ordinary teams were kept safe...blow out scotelines will still happen, because they didn't make the promotion and releagtion team based, as opposed to club based

Logistics was the argument behind the club championship.
How to counter it;
13, 15 and 18 play Saturday and 14 & 16 play Sunday. That solves the problem of kids not being able to standby for an older team if they are at different grounds.
As for the benefits of home ground hosting being lost ($), just give clubs hosting duties. They get 5 games every two weeks. May be their own teams, maybe not.

[sapdad]

Logistics was the argument behind the club championship.
How to counter it;
13, 15 and 18 play Saturday and 14 & 16 play Sunday. That solves the problem of kids not being able to standby for an older team if they are at different grounds.
As for the benefits of home ground hosting being lost ($), just give clubs hosting duties. They get 5 games every two weeks. May be their own teams, maybe not.

I dont think Jaffas playing Edgeworth hosted in Coffs Harbour would be anyones idea of fair.It would also mean coaches and volunteers giving up both days of their weekends in order to host games.NIAS and Nth Coast would be doubling up on transport to service both days every 2 weeks.The club idea is the best way,it just is.I can maybe see 3 teams out of all the grades (out of approx 80) who can legitimately claim to be hard done by.They will never change the system for that small a number.As for poor teams being left in the top division,most grades have lopsided scorelines outside the top 4 anyway.

[WOW2.0]

Victoria makes it work, promotion/relegation by team...no reason we couldn't...it also makes their system more legitimate IMO

[WOW2.0]

3 teams in 80 hard done by, also means 3 teams being benefited unjustly...so 7.5% of "poor outcome"

[KITZ]

Victoria makes it work, promotion/relegation by team...no reason we couldn't...it also makes their system more legitimate IMO

Does Victoria or anyone else have to travel over 4 hours for a game of football - would be interested in seeing the distances covered in different states and how they manage.

Even in Sydney the range is about 2 hours max - maybe slightly more coming from south coast if CCU end up in a division with a south coast team - but that's not a given every single season depending on pro/rel - south coast games once in 30 rounds of football.

[Taffy]

But it's not like for like at all, some good teams have been pulled down, and some pretty ordinary teams were kept safe...blow out scotelines will still happen, because they didn't make the promotion and releagtion team based, as opposed to club based

While true, shows clubs need to focus on their entire youth not just have one or two gun teams. Though there are big logistical issues with having promotion and relegation team based.

Hunter's counter point, still wouldn't work either. Because it is more than just being able to have kids play up, it includes ground availability, club resources to host on both days if they even are, may have 14s play Saturday at home and the 13s play Sunday but the 15s and 18s have to play away. It would be a big mess and cause more trouble than it is worth.

As SAPdad said the number of teams really screwed over by it you can count on one hand.

[sapdad]

3 teams in 80 hard done by, also means 3 teams being benefited unjustly...so 7.5% of "poor outcome"

Your math is bad.A team coming top 4 having to go down is hard done by.A team coming 10th staying up isnt unjust.Again,I saw only 3 teams.If you find more please let me know.

[Taffy]

Victoria makes it work, promotion/relegation by team...no reason we couldn't...it also makes their system more legitimate IMO

Victoria splits it into 4 regions, and don't have promotion relegation until U21s

[sapdad]

Also theres a few clubs already out with expressions of interest for 2024.With the unknown of which division they'll be playing in I wonder how much player movement there will be this early on.

[BS detecor]

Also theres a few clubs already out with expressions of interest for 2024.With the unknown of which division they'll be playing in I wonder how much player movement there will be this early on.

There are already lots of phone calls being made

[Aegon]

There are already lots of phone calls being made

And this year no one can blame RH for starting it :grin:

[Taffy]

Also theres a few clubs already out with expressions of interest for 2024.With the unknown of which division they'll be playing in I wonder how much player movement there will be this early on.

Deadline day was 17 days ago so players can't move till next season I will say it will be about the same amount of movement as always. Let's not pretend that plenty of clubs, coaches, players, TDs, parents weren't out looking to switch clubs each year.

[Hunter403]

Also theres a few clubs already out with expressions of interest for 2024.With the unknown of which division they'll be playing in I wonder how much player movement there will be this early on.

Not really all that unknown. The Group A teams will all be in the top 12. The Group C teams will be in the second 12. Looking at the table from the first part of this season should provide a pretty good indicator of which 4 will make the top half of next year from the current Group B. The spanner in the works will be just how well BelSwans and Southy go. I think Belswans might surprise but Southy won't. So for mine Weston and Lakes to go into the top half and probably joined by Adamstown and Charlestown or Belswans. This is of course ruling out an implosion behind the scenes at one of these clubs.

Here's hoping that NNSWF publish the fees each club charge for next season. That might cause a few to change clubs given the current economic climate. The current range runs from $950 to $2200 to be in the same comp, albeit in Div 1 or 2. Most clubs provide much of the same in gear, qualified coaches etc. The difference is the current crop of players that each have, the grade they currently play in and the perception that some clubs are "better" than others.

[sapdad]

Deadline day was 17 days ago so players can't move till next season I will say it will be about the same amount of movement as always. Let's not pretend that plenty of clubs, coaches, players, TDs, parents weren't out looking to switch clubs each year.

Sorry,yes I was talking about movement for 2024.The top clubs will be fine,but its the middle tier whos players wont know if they are starting next year in the 1st or 2nd division.I wonder how many will want to signal a move so early.Ive seen plenty of coaches and TDs carry on once they know players wish to trial elsewhere.

[Taffy]

Some good match ups for the next round of the cup, though I think our game of 2nd Vs 3rd (after we already had to knock out 1st) really should be the final and not the quarter final but #magicofthecup I guess.

[northern_swan]

Some good match ups for the next round of the cup, though I think our game of 2nd Vs 3rd (after we already had to knock out 1st) really should be the final and not the quarter final but #magicofthecup I guess.

Interesting that some clubs appear to have disseminated fixture information to parents before a draw video has been put up online. The draw video was a good way of demonstrating transparency for the first few rounds, it has appeared to go by the wayside for this round however.
Not a shot at any individual or club, but I would have thought it would be far better to have the opportunity to hear from Northern themselves regarding upcoming opponents, rather than friends in other clubs informing us about our upcoming fixture.

[BS detecor]

Interesting that some clubs appear to have disseminated fixture information to parents before a draw video has been put up online. The draw video was a good way of demonstrating transparency for the first few rounds, it has appeared to go by the wayside for this round however.
Not a shot at any individual or club, but I would have thought it would be far better to have the opportunity to hear from Northern themselves regarding upcoming opponents, rather than friends in other clubs informing us about our upcoming fixture.

Northern sent an email with all the fixtures to the clubs. Maybe the club is waiting for a fixture date before letting you know

[Taffy]

Interesting that some clubs appear to have disseminated fixture information to parents before a draw video has been put up online. The draw video was a good way of demonstrating transparency for the first few rounds, it has appeared to go by the wayside for this round however.
Not a shot at any individual or club, but I would have thought it would be far better to have the opportunity to hear from Northern themselves regarding upcoming opponents, rather than friends in other clubs informing us about our upcoming fixture.

Really got to speak to your club about not informing players, the coach sent a message out to the team this morning.

[northern_swan]

Northern sent an email with all the fixtures to the clubs. Maybe the club is waiting for a fixture date before letting you know


Really got to speak to your club about not informing players, the coach sent a message out to the team this morning.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough in my last post. With the preceding rounds, Northern livestreamed the draw and made a real effort to hype up the tournament. For the kids (and some parents) it was a source of interest & created a buzz to watch through who had who etc.
This time it was a little anticlimactic, given in our personal circumstance we found out last night from a friend in the team who had been drawn against my son's team. Obviously some clubs will be quicker at disseminating information to others, given the nature of volunteerism and that's fine.
I was just saying I guess that it sucks that some have the info & not others, when everyone had access to it at the same time in the previous rounds, thats all.

[Eastwest]

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough in my last post. With the preceding rounds, Northern livestreamed the draw and made a real effort to hype up the tournament. For the kids (and some parents) it was a source of interest & created a buzz to watch through who had who etc.
This time it was a little anticlimactic, given in our personal circumstance we found out last night from a friend in the team who had been drawn against my son's team. Obviously some clubs will be quicker at disseminating information to others, given the nature of volunteerism and that's fine.
I was just saying I guess that it sucks that some have the info & not others, when everyone had access to it at the same time in the previous rounds, thats all.

Welcome to nnsw football. Info travels from the inner circles out. Most info i get is from parents from other clubs. Pretty sure they help run our club.
I can't believe we have a local youth cup comp at all.

[Hunter403]

I can't believe we have a local youth cup comp at all.

Agreed. Or if we must have it, when you lose, you are out. The loser vs loser rounds were not popular with the coaches that I spoke to. I know the team that I coach didn't see the point of it and neither did our opponents. We went through the motions like a training game. All were worried about injuries in an unwanted game.

[Taffy]

Fancy not wanting to play additional games or give players a different format of competition. Is a "training game" the excuse you're given for the second round result? In the wrong profession if you think more games for developing kids is a bad thing.

[BS detecor]

Wow? Piers Morgan is that you?

[Reds Forever]

I personally think the concepts for the pre season and cups should be swapped over.

Knockout format for pre season with games mid week or later afternoons and nights for weekends. Teams get knocked out, they can then arrange trial games between themselves. Winners keep playing for the pre season cup and ends before season starts.

Mid season cup to be group format which will allow certainty of how many games and when they are played. Winner or top 2 from each group then play finals.

[Hunter403]

They say don't feed the troll, but I'll respond.
Happy to play any game that provides a learning experience. The result means nothing to me so I don't need excuses. What matters is the learning experience. The fact that you think it's about results shows me that you shouldn't be in the youth coaching profession.
What did anyone get from such a one sided match? Losing by 10 or more goals, being so outclassed that getting out of your own half was not possible, or from the other team's perspective, not having your defence tested and where your goal keeper doesn't get a touch. Pointless activity and the opposing coach agreed.
Different format? Just another 80 minute game. Nothing different about the format or rules.

I don't think more games is a bad thing but they must be appropriate games the allow Development fir all participants.

[BS detecor]

Maybe they learnt what the level they should be striving for is. It?s up to the coach to teach learnable moments, if they are being told it?s a ridiculous game and they have no chance then of course they will lose by 10. I?m only assuming that they are a second division team and not a community junior side. Maitland juniors u15 only lost 3-0 to an npl side and Southy 16s beat Valo so upsets can happen

[Taffy]

Who said anything about it being about results? And it certainly is a different format, knockout tournaments are different to a league, group stage then knockout is also different. What a weird response. As BS said if the coach went in thinking it is just a pointless game and we can't get anything from it of course the players will respond in term. Small team thinking

[Hunter403]

Who said anything about it being about results? And it certainly is a different format, knockout tournaments are different to a league, group stage then knockout is also different. What a weird response. As BS said if the coach went in thinking it is just a pointless game and we can't get anything from it of course the players will respond in term. Small team thinking

You did: " Is a "training game" the excuse you're given for the second round result?"
As I said, the result of a game is unimportant to me. It is important to the players, but not me. Development is what matters to me.
I disagree on the format not being different. 5 a side is different. Shortened games is different. Sure, its a knockout but you lose and stay in. Still just another 80 minute game. Might be weird in your mind, but your are entitled to you opinion just as I am entitled to mine. I think that your view that one sided games are beneficial to the participants is weird. Each to their own.

[Taffy]

Development is so important you don't want them playing more games. Makes sense.

Also you lost the round of the tournament you then moved into, and now you're out, you're not staying in.

[Hunter403]

Development is so important you don't want them playing more games. Makes sense.

Also you lost the round of the tournament you then moved into, and now you're out, you're not staying in.

You misunderstand and I suspect deliberately so for the point of argument.
More games are fine as long as they are beneficial. Lopsided matches are not. To quote NNSW Football "The NNSWF Premier Youth League has been designed to enhance the talented player pathway, enable more competitive football for young players and facilitate more games of best versus best and like versus like."
If you want more games, and I do, then play 2 full rounds of the second part of the season (like vs like) rather than a cup comp that sees many teams eliminated or in lopsided games. Far better for player development.

[WOW2.0]

Victoria splits it into 4 regions, and don't have promotion relegation until U21s

May not be promotion releagtion..but at the start of each season they play round robin and are graded into 4 tiers for the rest of the season

You can check South Melbourne post re this process from a couple of months ago...they had teams from various ages groups placed in varying tiers from 1 to 4

[sapdad]

Its almost half way through and Belswans look like they will make top 4 in Div B easily.Charlestown seem to have been given a huge break as well that may cause some grumbles if they go back up.

[Hunter403]

The lack of referees over the weekend was disappointing. Some games got three officials and some got none. Scheduling too many matches on one day? The junior Jets at home reducing the number of available refs? NNSW need to take a closer look at it.

[Taffy]

Its almost half way through and Belswans look like they will make top 4 in Div B easily.Charlestown seem to have been given a huge break as well that may cause some grumbles if they go back up.

What break have they been given?

[matjpacker]

Not having a 16?s team will hold Charlestown back, or at least put pressure on the other ages to perform well to get them back in Div 1 next year.

If NNSWF were really serious about it they?d punish the clubs who don?t have an age group by calling the game a forfeit rather than putting byes in.

Not sure about BelSwans, couple of ages doing OK, couple less OK, that said, they and others have only played 2 games with Sundays games being washed out so hard to really gauge at this early stage. At the end though, I?ll be surprised if they start in Div 1 next season.

[Hunter403]

If NNSWF were really serious about it they,d punish the clubs who don't have an age group by calling the game a forfeit rather than putting byes in.



Like this idea

[sapdad]

What break have they been given?

Their 16s games are being called a bye instead of a forfeit which means that instead of opposition clubs getting the 3 points every week they stay even.Across the rounds thats 21 points in the club championship they wont have to catch up with other grades.

[The Hacker]

Their 16s games are being called a bye instead of a forfeit which means that instead of opposition clubs getting the 3 points every week they stay even.Across the rounds thats 21 points in the club championship they wont have to catch up with other grades.

So there is no punishment at all. I can?t believe all the other clubs haven?t got together to write away to question this. If a team was to forfeit on the day of a game it would be a 3-0 lose. What?s the difference here

[sapdad]

So there is no punishment at all. I can?t believe all the other clubs haven?t got together to write away to question this. If a team was to forfeit on the day of a game it would be a 3-0 lose. What?s the difference here

I dont know if theres anything more to it.There are usually a few people on here with very strong NNSW links who clarify a lot of these type of things.Hopefully they can shed some light on it.

[Taffy]

Their 16s games are being called a bye instead of a forfeit which means that instead of opposition clubs getting the 3 points every week they stay even.Across the rounds thats 21 points in the club championship they wont have to catch up with other grades.

Well that was the same in the first part of the season as well. Only 7 rounds so only 21 points go missing compared to 39. Would only be an issue if they finish in top four by less than 3 points.

Not sure what you mean by 21 points they won't have to catch up, Charlestown can at most only get 12 points per round compared to other clubs that can get 15 points per round. Maximum they can get is 84 points. Is that enough to stay top 4? I don't know but they did only finish in front of New Lambton and Cooks Hill in the first part of the season

[sapdad]

Not sure what you mean by 21 points they won't have to catch up, Charlestown can at most only get 12 points per round compared to other clubs that can get 15 points per round.
Yes I didnt word that correctly.I bet theres a few clubs that would love to call some of their grades a bye as well so as not to donate 3 points every week to the opposition.

[Taffy]

I mean a forfeit and a bye are different. One means there is a team to play in the competition and one that doesn't. All it would mean is that every club gets an additional 3 points for the club championship. Would only be a real issue if Charlestown go up to Div1 by less than 3 points.

[Largesse]

I mean a forfeit and a bye are different. One means there is a team to play in the competition and one that doesn't. All it would mean is that every club gets an additional 3 points for the club championship. Would only be a real issue if Charlestown go up to Div1 by less than 3 points.

It's not that. It's as described elsewhere. You must be punished for not fielding all teams. There are teams which have accrued 0-6 points this year. Those clubs would be far better off not fielding a side in those age groups if there's no punishment for not fielding a team.
Charlestown shouldn't be eligible for promotion. Same goes for any club not fielding sides in all age groups.

[Taffy]

It's not that. It's as described elsewhere. You must be punished for not fielding all teams. There are teams which have accrued 0-6 points this year. Those clubs would be far better off not fielding a side in those age groups if there's no punishment for not fielding a team.
Charlestown shouldn't be eligible for promotion. Same goes for any club not fielding sides in all age groups.

Well the punishment says that each club gets one year to rectify if they can't field all teams and must have all teams to compete in the NPL. This is Charlestown's first year of not fielding all teams. An problem of the club's own making.

I will be curious to see if they don't get all youth teams next year will Northern follow their own rules and drop Charlestown down to NL1.

[Eastwest]

If you cant supply a team you deserve zero pts for that age AND if that means not enough to pts stay up then down you should go down.

[Hunter403]

Well the punishment says that each club gets one year to rectify if they can't field all teams and must have all teams to compete in the NPL. This is Charlestown's first year of not fielding all teams. An problem of the club's own making.

I will be curious to see if they don't get all youth teams next year will Northern follow their own rules and drop Charlestown down to NL1.

Let's hope NNSWF has some courage. I have my doubts.

Not being picky here but we also need to remember that NPL and NL1 no longer exist in Youth Football. It is PYL with Div 1 and 2 in the first half of the season and Groups A,B and C in the second half. One comp.

There should no longer be any favours given to any club as all play in the one comp, all have the same fees to NNSWF, the same ref fees etc. The only non result driven difference is what clubs can offer (programmes, kits etc) and how much they charge (currently ranging from $950 to $2,200).

On the field, may the best team win.

I just want the same rules and conditions applied to all.

[sapdad]

Let's hope NNSWF has some courage. I have my doubts.

Not being picky here but we also need to remember that NPL and NL1 no longer exist in Youth Football. It is PYL with Div 1 and 2 in the first half of the season and Groups A,B and C in the second half. One comp.

There should no longer be any favours given to any club as all play in the one comp, all have the same fees to NNSWF, the same ref fees etc. The only non result driven difference is what clubs can offer (programmes, kits etc) and how much they charge (currently ranging from $950 to $2,200).

On the field, may the best team win.

I just want the same rules and conditions applied to all.

I hope they put 18s back with seniors next year.No one has ever explained what the benefit was to move them.18s should be in and around the top squad on gameday not hanging around all day for the little kids to finish before kicking off.Maybe instead of 2nd bottom going into a playoff next year why not lowest team in senior club championship across 3 grades.Will at least promote clubs to not stack all their resources into the 1st team squad.Just an idea.

[Hunter403]

Great effort by Belswans today. 4 wins and a draw vs Adamstown

[Taffy]

Let's hope NNSWF has some courage. I have my doubts.

Not being picky here but we also need to remember that NPL and NL1 no longer exist in Youth Football. It is PYL with Div 1 and 2 in the first half of the season and Groups A,B and C in the second half. One comp.

True, what I meant though when talking about NPL and NL1 is the senior squad. You can't have your 1st grade team in NPL unless you have all youth grades. So since this is Charlestown's first year grace, next year if they can't their 1st grade team should be dropped

[Taffy]

Now NPL is over how many NPL clubs not in finals will be dropping their young players down the grades.

[sapdad]

Now NPL is over how many NPL clubs not in finals will be dropping their young players down the grades.

Hopefully every player who is registered and qualifies to play gets a run.We cant sit on here and laud clubs for promoting youth then claiming its unfair when they go back and play their appropriate age.NNSW have made football about results so clubs chasing them shouldnt feel the slightest bit guilty about how they do it as long as the rules are followed.Im not saying youre making that argument but theres no doubt going to be people on here who thinks its unfair,and usually those people have vested interests.

[sapdad]

Great effort by Belswans today. 4 wins and a draw vs Adamstown

Top 4 in all grades with most ages having a game in hand.They will be up next year which means at least 3 clubs who started the year in Div 1 will be not going back up.The player merry go round is only just getting started.Full credit to NNSW on this one theres a few clubs who need a real hard look at their youth setups.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Hopefully every player who is registered and qualifies to play gets a run.We cant sit on here and laud clubs for promoting youth then claiming its unfair when they go back and play their appropriate age.NNSW have made football about results so clubs chasing them shouldnt feel the slightest bit guilty about how they do it as long as the rules are followed.Im not saying youre making that argument but theres no doubt going to be people on here who thinks its unfair,and usually those people have vested interests.

This along with player retention/loyalty, are always a similar argument for me.
Is it fair to drop players down grades in finals? Is it allowed?
As per rules, if they allowed to do so and players are eligible, then some clubs will.
There may be some extenuating circumstances, Eg players performing well in a grade and being called up to fill in for a few week to cover injuries/for experience. No problems with these players coming back. For arguments sake, we will stick with the players that are playing in an age group, but we’ve realised they are young and could play down… if we make the finals.

Now depending upon where you fall, depends on how you view it.
Opposition : no, totally unfair.
Player: meh, more games.
Teammates not making way for new player: mixed. Might be good to give us a better chance at winning.
If you’ve got your game time or position lost due to this: pissed.

The general consensus would be that the players that play through the year, earn the right to play the finals games.
Surely, if your clubs management insist on dropping players back to win, at the expense of other players, that’s a bit of a red flag to players and parents? And wouldn’t you think twice about going to a club like that?
Clubs build reputations. It’ll catch up with them eventually. If not, then people are just buying into the same rubbish.