2023 Premier Youth League

[Taffy]

Top 4 in all grades with most ages having a game in hand.They will be up next year which means at least 3 clubs who started the year in Div 1 will be not going back up.The player merry go round is only just getting started.Full credit to NNSW on this one theres a few clubs who need a real hard look at their youth setups.

Yeah they will be going up, but if I am Belswans who just proved we are a club that should be in Div 1, how many of their own current players will they be dropping to make way for all these recently relegated kids? I wouldn't be getting rid of too many, they just showed the club they are better than the players from the 3 clubs going down.

As you say though a few clubs who need to have a look, they've been able to sit around comfortable for a long time. Credit to Lakes though for sorting out their issues just as the new system came in. See how long it can last for.

[sapdad]

Surely, if your clubs management insist on dropping players back to win, at the expense of other players, that?s a bit of a red flag to players and parents? And wouldn?t you think twice about going to a club like that?

Its a good point and the counter to it is always that the teams doing this sort of stuff are teams that are usually in the finals.Most kids in the higher teams could be the best player on a lower team but would rather be on the fringes in a top 4 team and always be in the mix.If you are in a top 4 team then you have to be aware that theres always someone gunning for your spot.

[Taffy]

I guess if winning when you're a teenager is more important than getting much more game time to aide your development to get into 1st grade then that's what you do. It is interesting to see. See many players who won a lot at youth level now struggling to make first grade and have had to jump around clubs. Something need to consider while looks like we will win everything and game time has been good, will it always be like that? To me rather move to another club if it looks like game time will be dropping, don’t get any better on the bench.

[samcan]

Yeah they will be going up, but if I am Belswans who just proved we are a club that should be in Div 1, how many of their own current players will they be dropping to make way for all these recently relegated kids? I wouldn't be getting rid of too many, they just showed the club they are better than the players from the 3 clubs going down.

As you say though a few clubs who need to have a look, they've been able to sit around comfortable for a long time. Credit to Lakes though for sorting out their issues just as the new system came in. See how long it can last for.

Wonder if Charlestown will now solve that u16s problem for next year?

[KITZ]

Now NPL is over how many NPL clubs not in finals will be dropping their young players down the grades.

For semis onward at least you have to had played the majority of your games in that age group, the only exception is usually goalkeepers or having a fair amount of players out for injury. worth keeping note of... doesn't matter if its your designated age group or not.

[TopCorner]

My opinion but the Pre Season and Knock Out Cup and Plate competitions have been a valuable addition to the PYL seasons this year.

Added some value to rego fees and some great development opportunities. Well done NNSWF.

[Taffy]

Extra games are always a good thing. Interesting to hear around the clubs that some clubs that hated the idea are now talking about how good it has been (maybe because their clubs are going well now playing like-for-like more often)

[WOW2.0]

Still seems like there have been plenty of blow outs...still could be more like for like games if pro/rel was by team rather than club

Also enticement for talented players to stay at an underperforming club, if the team is decent

[Eastwest]

Still seems like there have been plenty of blow outs...still could be more like for like games if pro/rel was by team rather than club

Also enticement for talented players to stay at an underperforming club, if the team is decent

Agree but this is an improvement on previous model.

Clubs are finding it difficult recruiting all the best players now due to movements from those that used to feed them.

[sapdad]

Looks like a 3 team race to fill the final spot for Div A next year.New Lambton,Mid Coast and Lakes are safe,Belswans in 4th but could get pipped by Cooks Hill or Rosebuds.

[TopCorner]

Still seems like there have been plenty of blow outs...still could be more like for like games if pro/rel was by team rather than club

Also enticement for talented players to stay at an underperforming club, if the team is decent

An underperforming club with one decent team is still an under performing club, and the club needs to take a look at the underlying causes and issues.

Agree far from perfect but decoupling has raised the bar and you need to build programs to develop players across all grades to be successful.

[Reds Forever]

My opinion but the Pre Season and Knock Out Cup and Plate competitions have been a valuable addition to the PYL seasons this year.

Added some value to rego fees and some great development opportunities. Well done NNSWF.

Unsure how they have added extra value. They have been included as we are playing way less league games this year.

Rather they play 2 rounds of phase 2 then the Cup games. Has been a logistical nightmare for clubs, teams and northern. Northern have struggled to manage the cup comps which shows with the struggle to complete the Grand Finals.

[AVB]

After today's results it sounds like the teams playing in div 1 next year will be the div A teams plus

Lake Mac
Mid Coast
New Lambton
Cooks Hill

Can anyone confirm?

[WOW2.0]

Yes, I believe Cooks Hill's results against Charlestown, and Bellswans inability to get over Lakes sorted it

Would have been interesting to see Bellswans in the top tier

[WOW2.0]

An underperforming club with one decent team is still an under performing club, and the club needs to take a look at the underlying causes and issues.

I agree to...my main point is that a club needs some success to turn around their propsects (attracting better players and coaches)...if a team was judged on personal merit, it would give an opportunity to grow club level success out of that seed of a good, or couple of good teams :) I can only see a lift and shift of good teams now

[Taffy]

Unsure how they have added extra value. They have been included as we are playing way less league games this year.

Much more competition games being played this year, not sure what you are on about.



Rather they play 2 rounds of phase 2 then the Cup games. Has been a logistical nightmare for clubs, teams and northern. Northern have struggled to manage the cup comps which shows with the struggle to complete the Grand Finals.

The only reason why the Cup Grand Finals are out of whack is because Australia was playing in the Women's World Cup on the weekend when it was scheduled to be played. Only an issue once every 4 years.

[Taffy]

Yes, I believe Cooks Hill's results against Charlestown, and Bellswans inability to get over Lakes sorted it

Would have been interesting to see Bellswans in the top tier

I agree, though seems Belswans only missed out by two points, so always next year to bridge that gap.

Charlestown finishing 8th in club championship will make it interesting to see how that goes in terms of players staying and going. Though if I am a Div1 team why would you take large numbers of players of a relegated team

[Reds Forever]

Much more competition games being played this year, not sure what you are on about.


The only reason why the Cup Grand Finals are out of whack is because Australia was playing in the Women's World Cup on the weekend when it was scheduled to be played. Only an issue once every 4 years.

Unsure how you figure this out. Last years NPL Youth was 26 games. This year it's only 20 games. Not even Knockout Comp makes up the difference. Maitland u16 are perfect example of this. Lost 1st round in penalty shootout. Then had byes all the way through until semi final which they won.

Was all out of whack before the Grand Finals. See point above, how does a team play round 1 and then have byes through to a semi final. Number of clubs have forfeited as well due to schedule issues or not bothered with it.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a knockout comp across all the youth divisions. Just not confident that Northern can run it successfully with not all teams having teams and the area they cover.

[Taffy]

Funny you mentioned Maitland U16s, they have played 26 games this year. Would've been 27 had Charlestown been able to sort themselves out. Though I wouldn't blame Northern for Charlestown being a basket case.

Maitland 16s also have their plate final tomorrow so that gets them to 27 games, plus they made finals so 28 games (29 if they make the grand final).


Of course those that performed well in cups get more, those that don't would at most get 25 games, those in Div 2 got at least 27 games, except those missing a team where they got 26.


As for clubs forfeiting cup games (none where schedule issues) that's on the club for pulling out. There is an additional tournament going to start soon, different format (which others on here were saying there needs to be), though I understand only 1/3 of the clubs have decided to enter it others would rather just train.

[Largesse]

I understand some forfeits were due to scheduling. Eg. Play your league game Saturday afternoon in Newcastle, then plays in Coffs the next day, with a week notice.

The Cup is a great idea. Not sure how North Coast can play a part though due to travel requirements for all parties.

[Taffy]

I know Adamstown decided to forfeit two of their games against North Coast, however, could've done it when North Coast where in town (as others did), or change the other game that weekend (also as others did). The other one was Nelson Bay forfeiting in the U13s, no idea what happened there, though understand that would be more difficult. More a reluctance on the club wanting to bother rather than a real scheduling issue.


Wonder if Northern fined those clubs that forfeited, particularly those like Thornton that couldn't be bothered going for a two hour drive to play.

[Largesse]

As long as all parties had a say in proposed changes, fair enough.

I do question how you can play the one match as a cup/regular fixture though as happened in at least one case. A knockout game is very different to a league fixture and unfair to play both as one.

Maybe a compromise is gala type arrangements including early rounds in regions?

[sapdad]

I know Adamstown decided to forfeit two of their games against North Coast, however, could've done it when North Coast where in town (as others did), or change the other game that weekend (also as others did).
Im not sure what you mean by play it when Nth Coast were in town?Nth Coast play 2 games in a day or stay overnight?The issue I had was a lack of communication when fixtures were due.The NPL draw last year came out around new year I think which gave everyone plenty of time to work out road trips/overnight stays etc.Not everyone has a monday to friday 9-5 job.People on rosters,business owners,on call professions etc dont have the luxury of clicking their fingers one or 2 weeks in advance to clear schedules.Our club certainly had very little idea when each stage was due to be played and the opponent and I cant blame either NNSW or the club as I dont know.But going forward having set dates laid out for the whole program is the perfect solution.If that means keeping it to just Newcastle/Lake Mac and Hunter to save these travel issues then even better.Plenty of good ideas being floated around (bringing NPL Div A teams in later rounds etc).I liked the idea of the knockout tournament but didnt rate the orgaising.Again I dont see anything but genuine feedback on here that hopefully NNSW take a look at it might make things even better for next years version of it.

[Reds Forever]

Im not sure what you mean by play it when Nth Coast were in town?Nth Coast play 2 games in a day or stay overnight?The issue I had was a lack of communication when fixtures were due.The NPL draw last year came out around new year I think which gave everyone plenty of time to work out road trips/overnight stays etc.Not everyone has a monday to friday 9-5 job.People on rosters,business owners,on call professions etc dont have the luxury of clicking their fingers one or 2 weeks in advance to clear schedules.Our club certainly had very little idea when each stage was due to be played and the opponent and I cant blame either NNSW or the club as I dont know.But going forward having set dates laid out for the whole program is the perfect solution.If that means keeping it to just Newcastle/Lake Mac and Hunter to save these travel issues then even better.Plenty of good ideas being floated around (bringing NPL Div A teams in later rounds etc).I liked the idea of the knockout tournament but didnt rate the orgaising.Again I dont see anything but genuine feedback on here that hopefully NNSW take a look at it might make things even better for next years version of it.

Not to mention kids in u16 and u18 age bracket with part time jobs. Hard to arrange work availability when knockout games get thrown up at short notice. My eldest had to miss a few games during preseason and knockout due to late notice. Don't think he ever played a game during spare weekend due to various byes.

[Taffy]

Im not sure what you mean by play it when Nth Coast were in town?Nth Coast play 2 games in a day or stay overnight?

Happened two weeks ago and neither of the match days were for cup games.


Our club certainly had very little idea when each stage was due to be played and the opponent and I cant blame either NNSW or the club as I dont know.But going forward having set dates laid out for the whole program is the perfect solution.

I remember you saying you were under the impression that Round 2 was meant to be played the following weekend, I do know our club told us what weekends were booked in at the start of the season, we all knew the following weekend was a washout weekend and that Round 2 was to be played on the weekend between end of Div1 and the first week of the second phase.

The clubs should be telling parents the set dates that were laid out, because these were obviously available to people.

Who the opponent is, I recognise will be unknown until later in the piece and isn't the clubs fault but can't be done till after the first round.

Northern may be more organised next time, and should just ensure all games are played on the weekend or as soon as possible after, so the draw can be done quickly and give people more time to organise.

[JustMe]

I felt the cup comp was a shambles. Good idea but but inviting every team who felt like it then not turning up or getting smacked by 20 is a waste of time.

[Hunter403]

Maybe run a cup (div 1) and plate (div 2).
12 teams play a total 6 matches on a Saturday, with the 6 winners playing 3 games on the Sunday (same weekend) with a 4th game made up of best performed 2 losers (in case of multi teams being equal, then a hat draw for the last two teams). Play this round half way through the first part of the season.
At the point the comp breaks into 3 groups play the semi on Saturday and the final on Sunday. Use either the LMRFF or grounds where two fields are available nearby (eg Adamstown/Olympic, Magic/Jaffas, South Cardiff 1/2, Kahibah 1/2). Teams tht are not required on the semi/final weekend can either play any weather affected catch up games, arrnage their own trials or have a weekend off.
Minimises season disruption, cup and a plate reduce the blowouts, provides a break between the Div 1 and 2 grading proccess and the Group A,B and C competition.

[TopCorner]

Tactical master class from Jaffas 13s Coach.👏

Putting your right back for those 90 seconds in the first half is great development and fosters a life long love of the game. Bravo

#dEvELopMEnt

[JustMe]

Tactical master class from Jaffas 13s Coach.��

Putting your right back for those 90 seconds in the first half is great development and fosters a life long love of the game. Bravo

#dEvELopMEnt

See that happen at all top 4 teams. Did he get more minutes in other games? Was he injured? Edgy do it to 1 or 2 as do magic.

Semi's time is for the guns to shine. Your "development" is also reading that you may need to improve in certain areas or move on.

Take a tissue in the meantime.

[sapdad]

Tactical master class from Jaffas 13s Coach.👏

Putting your right back for those 90 seconds in the first half is great development and fosters a life long love of the game. Bravo

#dEvELopMEnt

Jaffas are one of the most ruthless clubs when it comes to this stuff.They are also one of the most successful because they recruit hard and results are expected (I dont have a problem with any of it).Maybe ask your kid if he wants to play 80mins every game at a weaker team or get limited opportunities at a top team.If hes only playing 90 seconds in a final hes probably already been replaced for next year anyway.Just to note,Jaffas won the game so the coach seems like a genius I guess.

[TopCorner]

.If hes only playing 90 seconds in a final hes probably already been replaced for next year anyway.Just to note,Jaffas won the game so the coach seems like a genius I guess.

Would rather be a genius at developing and retaining kids than getting results and releasing them

Jog on SadDad 🙄

[sapdad]

Would rather be a genius at developing and retaining kids than getting results and releasing them

Jog on SadDad 🙄

Not really sure what the 'jog on' comment was about but theres plenty of opportunites for kids to get great coaching and be involved in teams that are all about the long term.Jaffas isnt one of those clubs and most everyone in NPL knows it.If the events of today was your first experience with it then thats fine but just know thats how it is at some clubs and they wont change it just to suit you.Sorry if you find that offensive and feel the need to insult me with your reply.

[Hunter403]

Tactical master class from Jaffas 13s Coach.��

Putting your right back for those 90 seconds in the first half is great development and fosters a life long love of the game. Bravo

#dEvELopMEnt

I feel sorry for the boy, but as others have said, that is the way it is at some clubs. Also, as others have said, it would appear that he is not in favour at Jaffas. When my son was there they made the GF and one lad sat on the bench for the whole match and didn't get 1 second on the pitch.

Take the lad to another PYL club. There are about 20 to choose from, many close to Lambton. I am sure that he would find a spot where he will be appreciated and where he would enjoy his football.

[Hunter403]

PYL Youth League Semi Finals results

Group C
13s
NIAS 6 def Singo 1
14s
NIAS vs Cessnock (result not known)
15s
NIAS 1(5) def Westy 1(4)
16s
Thornton 3 def Cessnock 0
18's
Kahibah 3 def Wallsend 1

Group B
13s
Lake 6 def Belswand 0
14s
Lake 3 def Cookers 1
15s
New Lambton 2 def Lake 1
16s
Southy 2 def Belswans 1
18s
Adamstown 4 def Lakes 2

Group A
13s
Jaffas 3 def Olympic 2
14s
Weston 0(5) def Maitland 0(4)
15s
North Coast 2 def Magic 0
16s
Edgy 0(11) def Magic 0(10)
18s
North Coast 2 def Jaffas 1

[The Bear]

PYL Youth League Semi Finals results

Group C
13s
NIAS 6 def Singo 1
14s
NIAS vs Cessnock (result not known)
15s
NIAS 1(5) def Westy 1(4)
16s
Thornton 3 def Cessnock 0
18's
Kahibah 3 def Wallsend 1

Group B
13s
Lake 6 def Belswand 0
14s
Lake 3 def Cookers 1
15s
New Lambton 2 def Lake 1
16s
Southy 2 def Belswans 1
18s
Adamstown 4 def Lakes 2

Group A
13s
Jaffas 3 def Olympic 2
14s
Weston 0(5) def Maitland 0(4)
15s
North Coast 2 def Magic 0
16s
Edgy 0(11) def Magic 0(10)
18s
North Coast 2 def Jaffas 1

Rough season for Broadmeadow. No minor premiers or teams in grand finals.

Magic parents tell me v.poor development culture in 13 and 14 age group. 15 and 16 headings backwards after success in younger ages. 18 age not good enough to move into seniors.

[TopCorner]

I Take the lad to another PYL club. There are about 20 to choose from, many close to Lambton. I am sure that he would find a spot where he will be appreciated and where he would enjoy his football.

I hope so. Just for clarity this isn?t my kid. I?m not a parent who feels his kid is hard done by.

[sapdad]

15 and 16 headings backwards after success in younger ages.

Think you'll find Magic 15s were pretty dominant first 2 years,this year several players have been pushed up to 16s to help their development.It has certainly weakened both teams in terms of results,but is much better for the individual players.I cant speak on 13s and 14s.Magic 16s still made the cup final where they lost to a quality Olympic team.There are 4 really strong teams in 16s this year which is great for the comp but im not convinced its because Magic have gone backwards.

[JustMe]

Think you'll find Magic 15s were pretty dominant first 2 years, this year several players have been pushed up to 16s to help their development. It has certainly weakened both teams in terms of results, but is much better for the individual players. I cant speak on 13s and 14s.Magic 16s still made the cup final where they lost to a quality Olympic team. There are 4 really strong teams in 16s this year which is great for the comp but im not convinced its because Magic have gone backwards.

Disagree. Magic have gone backwards. The culture is a big part of that. You can ask around. Playing kids up isnt that big a deal. Happens at all clubs. Not saying that only this club has these issues either.

But agree that other clubs have become stronger. So many reasons from recruitment to coaches moving etc. Creates a better comp for everyone

Its one big constant revolving football bubble. Everyone looking to get their child into best place for their own success. 99.9% end up playing local league anyway.

[JustMe]

Jaffas are one of the most ruthless clubs when it comes to this stuff.They are also one of the most successful because they recruit hard and results are expected (I dont have a problem with any of it).Maybe ask your kid if he wants to play 80mins every game at a weaker team or get limited opportunities at a top team.If hes only playing 90 seconds in a final hes probably already been replaced for next year anyway.Just to note,Jaffas won the game so the coach seems like a genius I guess.

You obviously didnt see Magic and Olympic over the last 15 years. Jaffas have only started to match their recruitment you idiot.

[prawnhead]

Disagree. Magic have gone backwards. The culture is a big part of that. You can ask around. Playing kids up isnt that big a deal. Happens at all clubs. Not saying that only this club has these issues either.

But agree that other clubs have become stronger. So many reasons from recruitment to coaches moving etc. Creates a better comp for everyone

Its one big constant revolving football bubble. Everyone looking to get their child into best place for their own success. 99.9% end up playing local league anyway.

Agree Justme - and only a very small % of that 99.9 progress through to even 1st grade NPL level.

[The Magician]

Magic had 17 players playing up ineligible to play in their age group for finals football this season...

But to ensure we can win a 220x300mm piece of MDF with brass foil on the front next season, we will make sure all players are eligible.

We very happy with our development pathway. How many of your first graders have come through your youth system, it should be considered when you judge a club on their youth development rather than fake timber plaques. And Magic only finished 1 point behind the million dollar team.

Or are you happy for little johnnys rego to pay Topors $2k a week so you can high 5 him when he is on his way to take a piss before first grade head into the sheds.

[Hunter403]

All PYL teams should have to publish their fee structure. I wonder how many parents will vote with their wallet?

[sapdad]

You obviously didnt see Magic and Olympic over the last 15 years. Jaffas have only started to match their recruitment you idiot.

Agreeing with my point then thinking Im an idiot for saying it isnt quite the burn you think it is.

[Taffy]

Tactical master class from Jaffas 13s Coach.👏

Putting your right back for those 90 seconds in the first half is great development and fosters a life long love of the game. Bravo

#dEvELopMEnt

I'd wager finals are a different story, though.

[Taffy]

18 age not good enough to move into seniors.

Quite a few of their 18s are actually 16s, but a few have been told by Jim they will be in the reserves team next year.

[Taffy]

But to ensure we can win a 220x300mm piece of MDF with brass foil on the front next season, we will make sure all players are eligible.

Haha, good to see when clubs don't think this is the be all and end all.



How many of your first graders have come through your youth system

The bigger question is how many of Magic's first graders came through their youth system? That's the bigger judge of good development.



Or are you happy for little johnnys rego to pay Topors $2k a week so you can high 5 him when he is on his way to take a piss before first grade head into the sheds.

Let's not pretend that Magic rego fees don't contribute to player payments.

[JustMe]

Magic had 17 players playing up ineligible to play in their age group for finals football this season...

But to ensure we can win a 220x300mm piece of MDF with brass foil on the front next season, we will make sure all players are eligible.

We very happy with our development pathway. How many of your first graders have come through your youth system, it should be considered when you judge a club on their youth development rather than fake timber plaques. And Magic only finished 1 point behind the million dollar team.

Or are you happy for little johnnys rego to pay Topors $2k a week so you can high 5 him when he is on his way to take a piss before first grade head into the sheds.

Always the same salty excuse from you. Cant win so the others paid more or the trophy is plastic. Remember you also needed tissues over the Hartley v Gomez academy $$ :rof:
Immature muppets like you continue to give your club a bad name.

Btw jaffas get a decent sponsorship to pay firsts as well. Most clubs put youth fees into seniors at some point. some more than others. The system was never perfect.

Anyway im glad your crying. Makes the rest of Newcastle happy. :rof::rof::rof:

[Hunter403]

Premier Youth League Grand Finals
Group A Sunday Adamstown Oval
13 - 8.30
Edgy vs Jaffas
14 - 10.30
Jaffas vs Weston
15 - 12.30
Maitland vs North Coast
16 - 4.30
Olympic vs Edgy
18 - 2.30
Maitland vs North Coast

Group B Saturday Blacksmiths Oval
13 - 8.30
Lakes vs Adamstown
14 - 10.30
Azzurri vs Lakes
15 - 12.30
Mid Coast vs New Lambton
16 - 2.30
New Lambton vs South Cardiff
18 - 4.30
New Lambton vs Adamstown

Group C Saturday Rockwell Automation Park Weston
13 - 10.30
NIAS vs Westy
14 - 12.30
NIAS vs Westy
15 - 2.30
Thornton vs NIAS
16 - 8.30
Thornton vs Kahibah
18 - 4.30
Kahibah vs Westy

Note the changes of time for some games to accommodate North Coast and NIAS

[The Magician]

The bigger question is how many of Magic's first graders came through their youth system? That's the bigger judge of good development.

Glad you asked... From our GF Squad...

Dom Brymora U13s NPL>>> First Grade
Jayden Stewardson U15s NPL >>> First grade
Jeremy Wilson U15s NPL >>> First Grade
Angus McLeoad U13s NPL>>>> Jets Youth >>> returned to First Grade
Josh Benson U13s NPL>>>> Jets Youth >>> returned to First Grade
Cale Graham U15s NPL>>>> Jets Youth >>> returned to First Grade
Xander Woweries U15s NPL>>> First Grade


Kale Bradbery >>> Magic U18s >>> Magic First Grade>>> Jaffas
Josh Piddington >>> Magic First grade as 16 year old >>> Jaffas
Ben Kennedy>>> Magic First Grade >>> Jets >>> Jaffas
Matthew Hoole >>> Magic Community >>> Magic First Grade>>> Jaffas
Sam Webb>>> Magic 15s NPL >>> Magic First Grade>>> Jaffas

[Taffy]

So 4 players

[Eastwest]

The bigger question is how many of Magic's first graders came through their youth system? That's the bigger judge of good development.

Glad you asked... From our GF Squad...

Dom Brymora U13s NPL>>> First Grade
Jayden Stewardson U15s NPL >>> First grade
Jeremy Wilson U15s NPL >>> First Grade
Angus McLeoad U13s NPL>>>> Jets Youth >>> returned to First Grade
Josh Benson U13s NPL>>>> Jets Youth >>> returned to First Grade
Cale Graham U15s NPL>>>> Jets Youth >>> returned to First Grade
Xander Woweries U15s NPL>>> First Grade


Kale Bradbery >>> Magic U18s >>> Magic First Grade>>> Jaffas
Josh Piddington >>> Magic First grade as 16 year old >>> Jaffas
Ben Kennedy>>> Magic First Grade >>> Jets >>> Jaffas
Matthew Hoole >>> Magic Community >>> Magic First Grade>>> Jaffas
Sam Webb>>> Magic 15s NPL >>> Magic First Grade>>> Jaffas

Now the long list where youth from other clubs have gone to Magic. Let someone who has a fair view do that research

Ignoring the other side of the argument is stupidity but usual from you lot.

[The Magician]

Now the long list where youth from other clubs have gone to Magic. Let someone who has a fair view do that research

Ignoring the other side of the argument is stupidity but usual from you lot.

The question was how many of Magics first grade come through their youth system... pretty simple question really, with an answer given ... How many from your club?

But if every side of the story must be considered i hope you lay in bed at night wondering how many times your mother considered aborting you next time she wishes you happy birthday.

[Hunter403]

The reality is:
- that no club in Newcastle has a first grade squad made up of its juniors and probably never will. Having a "my dog is bigger than your dog" argument about it is a waste of time. Every NPL club is as good or bad as the other.
- players move from club to club for a number of reasons, money being one of them, opportunity being another.
- money is paid by all NPL clubs and a number of NL1 clubs (not all) to attract first grade players. Don't pretend it isn't and if you are from an NPL club, don't pretend that yours doesn't pay. There is nothing wrong with it while NNSW turn a blind eye to it, and how they raise that money is their concern. Don't like it, then find another club.
- having coached youth in both NPL and NL1, my experience is that there are good programmes at clubs in both. There are also very good and very average and some down right poor coaches at both levels.
- Youth fees to play in what is now the same comp range from $950 to $2,200. Generally, the fees include strip, training strip, match fees (refs), rego, ground hire, utilities (power), polo shirt, track suite etc. Overall, the packages offerred are comparable whilst the price isn't. You can decide what you think the extra money is for. If you are ok with it: fine. If not, then find another club. I firmly believe that those fees, once approved by NNSW Football should be published. Give families an informed choice.
- the only difference between the NPL based clubs and the NL1 based clubs is the perception that you get better training at an NPL club. That perception is reinforced by the best kids wanting to go to those clubs because they (or their parents) think that's the way to NPL first grade at that club. Those clubs are then kept strong by that perception and it becomes self fulfilling. There are other ways. The current migration of players between clubs already proves it. I guarantee you that if you are a youth player at a NL1 based club and you can play, a NPL club will come knocking.

So can we get on with discussing the current youth comp and not the history of current NPL first graders?

[The Bear]

The reality is:
- that no club in Newcastle has a first grade squad made up of its juniors and probably never will. Having a "my dog is bigger than your dog" argument about it is a waste of time. Every NPL club is as good or bad as the other.
- players move from club to club for a number of reasons, money being one of them, opportunity being another.
- money is paid by all NPL clubs and a number of NL1 clubs (not all) to attract first grade players. Don't pretend it isn't and if you are from an NPL club, don't pretend that yours doesn't pay. There is nothing wrong with it while NNSW turn a blind eye to it, and how they raise that money is their concern. Don't like it, then find another club.
- having coached youth in both NPL and NL1, my experience is that there are good programmes at clubs in both. There are also very good and very average and some down right poor coaches at both levels.
- Youth fees to play in what is now the same comp range from $950 to $2,200. Generally, the fees include strip, training strip, match fees (refs), rego, ground hire, utilities (power), polo shirt, track suite etc. Overall, the packages offerred are comparable whilst the price isn't. You can decide what you think the extra money is for. If you are ok with it: fine. If not, then find another club. I firmly believe that those fees, once approved by NNSW Football should be published. Give families an informed choice.
- the only difference between the NPL based clubs and the NL1 based clubs is the perception that you get better training at an NPL club. That perception is reinforced by the best kids wanting to go to those clubs because they (or their parents) think that's the way to NPL first grade at that club. Those clubs are then kept strong by that perception and it becomes self fulfilling. There are other ways. The current migration of players between clubs already proves it. I guarantee you that if you are a youth player at a NL1 based club and you can play, a NPL club will come knocking.

So can we get on with discussing the current youth comp and not the history of current NPL first graders?

Where would you have your grandkids play Hunter? One NPL and one NL1 team for variety.

[Hunter403]

Where would you have your grandkids play Hunter? One NPL and one NL1 team for variety.

I am biased here as I coach at a NL1 club at the moment. Additionally, what would suit me might not suit you. Club culture can vary greatly.
I'd suugest you meet the TD and the coach and try and get a feel for their philosophy. If possible, attend a game and see how the coach behaves. Is he aggressive, calm, silent, noisly critical of players and referees, does he micro manage? Is that behaviour acceptable to you? Does the coach enforce appropriate discipline or is his team loose and uncontrolled? Ask around amongst the parents at the club.
You are going to be paying a significant amount of money and as a paying customer you should do your research.

There are plenty of trials going on right now. Go to some and trial. It is not just the player that is on trial.

[TopCorner]

I am biased here as I coach at a NL1 club at the moment. Additionally, what would suit me might not suit you. Club culture can vary greatly.
I'd suugest you meet the TD and the coach and try and get a feel for their philosophy. If possible, attend a game and see how the coach behaves. Is he aggressive, calm, silent, noisly critical of players and referees, does he micro manage? Is that behaviour acceptable to you? Does the coach enforce appropriate discipline or is his team loose and uncontrolled? Ask around amongst the parents at the club.
You are going to be paying a significant amount of money and as a paying customer you should do your research.

There are plenty of trials going on right now. Go to some and trial. It is not just the player that is on trial.

One of the most sensible things Ive read on here 🙌

[KITZ]

One of the most sensible things Ive read on here ��

Not really. You become a better footballer by playing with and against better footballers. It's nice to have a nice coach who will give you a hug along the way, but if you want to play NPL in Newcastle or aim higher then none of that will get you there.

Teaching your player (as a parent or as a coach) how to deal with the adults they come across is going to be the single best skill in this space you can give them. How to get on the pitch and play football, take the direction that helps them and filter out the ridiculous commentary from other players, parents on the sideline and coaches will get them much further. You can't always control who is going to coach you, and just because you start the season with the worlds best coach, doesn't mean it's going to end that way either.

[Hunter403]

Not really. You become a better footballer by playing with and against better footballers. It's nice to have a nice coach who will give you a hug along the way, but if you want to play NPL in Newcastle or aim higher then none of that will get you there.

Teaching your player (as a parent or as a coach) how to deal with the adults they come across is going to be the single best skill in this space you can give them. How to get on the pitch and play football, take the direction that helps them and filter out the ridiculous commentary from other players, parents on the sideline and coaches will get them much further. You can't always control who is going to coach you, and just because you start the season with the worlds best coach, doesn't mean it's going to end that way either.

So is your answer to only go to an NPL club? There are NPL clubs with poor culture, poor programmes and poor coaches. The PYL now allows clubs from either NPL or NL1 to push into the top tier. It is now one comp. Take BelSwans as an example, they finished above NPL clubs in the youth club championship but if we accept that only NPL clubs are worthy of consideration, they would be overlooked.
No one is suggesting that a "nice coach" be found. The suggestion is to look at the club, its programme, its coaches, its TD and choose what you feel is right for you, and that will vary from person to person. Belswans proved this year that the NL1 clubs can compete with the NPL clubs and I think the South Cardiff 16s have shown that they can compete too.

You are right in your second paragraph. Mental toughness is a characteristic any player needs to fight his way up.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Everyone develops and becomes better in different ways.
Sometimes that?s a single method. Sometimes that changes. Sometimes multiple methods are needed.

A player may find a particular coach helps develop their game and wishes to stick and follow them around.
Some players game may not resonate with a coach, and that?s okay. Reality is most coaches can?t develop and resonate with every player in their team. Come
Coaches have a great tactical mind, some coaches may focus on skills development and ?plays?, some may aim to introduce elements of professionalism.

Sometimes a player learns and develops better around better footballers. Sometimes this may be detrimental. Sometimes they may learn more if they drop to an easier tier or play in a team where they are a playmaker and not a benchwarmer or have some more time to make their decisions before mixing it with the ?top? again.

The best thing a player can have is determination and resilience. Determination to be better and improve whether that?s playing at a top club, playing up an age group or ?dropping? to another club to get more time, whatever it is, aim to improve.

Reality of football in this region is it?s who you know, and reputations of coaches and clubs with those affiliations goes a long way. Not all the way?.but a long way.
15+ years ago I turned up to Newcastle United trials and players already had shorts and socks, same with Macquarie etc, the ?trial? was an illusion. And it?s still happening today, and will continue to happen. I had been overlooked because I played community at some clubs, they didn?t even want a bar of me. Got a gig with another club and the club that didn?t offer me a trial asked me to join them the year after?.you can imagine my response.

[Taffy]

Not really. You become a better footballer by playing with and against better footballers. It's nice to have a nice coach who will give you a hug along the way, but if you want to play NPL in Newcastle that will get you there.

Rubbish there are players who played NPL in Newcastle this year who spent many youth years at what are now Div 2 clubs. Also plenty of players in NL1 and won't make an NPL 1st grade side who spent all their youth at now Div 1 clubs.

[Jim]

So can we get on with discussing the current youth comp and not the history of current NPL first graders?

For sure. Tired of having the usual arrogant twats pretending their club develops a player. etc. Its the village that develops every kid

your u6-u9 has more impact than you think. The neighbour whose played a high grade. The school which has a great system. Family who take you to the park to hone skills. Youtube which has more info than any one club here. the small "academies which the club doesnt even know you do. And nearly most of all your parents who picksyou up after "your best club" has told you that your crap.

[Aegon]

This weeks grand finals:

13's - Edgy v Jaffas (1st v 2nd)
14's - Jaffas v Weston (1st v 2nd)
15's - North Coast v Maitland (3rd v 4th)
16's - Olympic v Edgy (1st v 2nd)
18's - North Coast v Maitland (2nd v 4th)

Well done to all the teams and players involved.

[Jim]

Reality of football in this region is it?s who you know, and reputations of coaches and clubs with those affiliations goes a long way. Not all the way?.but a long way. .

Well said. One other. Player attitudes. Ive seen some teams with a toxic group that is very bad to be around. Usually the team does split at some point but avoid this. Having blues on the training pitch doesnt bring a team together to achieve.

[Taffy]

This weeks PYL grand finals:

13's

Div A- Edgy v Jaffas (1st v 2nd)
Div B - Lake Macqaurie V Adamstown (1st v 2nd)
Div C - NIAS v West Wallsend (1st v 2nd)


14's

Div A - Jaffas v Weston (1st v 2nd)
Div B - Charlestown V Lake Macquarie (4th v 3rd)
Div C - NIAS v West Wallsend (1st v 3rd)


15's
Div A - North Coast v Maitland (3rd v 4th)
Div B - Mid Coast V New Lambton (1st v 3rd)
Div C - NIAS v Thornton (3rd v 1st)


16's
Div A - Olympic v Edgy (1st v 2nd)
Div B - New Lambton v South Cardiff (1st v 2nd)
Div C - Thornton v Kahibah (1st v 3rd)


18's
Div A - North Coast v Maitland (2nd v 4th)
Div B - New Lambton v Adamstown (1st v 3rd)
Div C - Kahibah V West Wallsend (1st v 2nd)


Well done to all the teams and players involved.

[Doopche]

Disagree. Magic have gone backwards. The culture is a big part of that. You can ask around. Playing kids up isnt that big a deal. Happens at all clubs. Not saying that only this club has these issues either.

But agree that other clubs have become stronger. So many reasons from recruitment to coaches moving etc. Creates a better comp for everyone

It?s one big constant revolving football bubble. Everyone looking to get their child into best place for their own success. 99.9% end up playing local league anyway.

If the Jets academy folded tomorrow and all the players went back to the last club they played for where do you think most will be going? I think you know the answer. They haven?t gone backwards they are just better at developing players and their best go to the Jets more often. They are doing it right and if that?s a bad culture then you have issues or are just salty.
What?s more important, developing players or winning youth trophies?
Eventually when you develop so often it?s going to hurt your club and you?ll have people that don?t know what they are talking about say you?ve gone backwards.

[TopCorner]

. They are doing it right .

Dont you mean ?we? ?. Or are you still pretending you dont coach there?

[Doopche]

Dont you mean ?we? ?. Or are you still pretending you dont coach there?
You really have an obsession with this coach don?t you? He must have made an impression but sorry I can?t help you.
So are you going to enlighten us with your football brain or you wanna keep playing guess who?

[Jim]

If the Jets academy folded tomorrow and all the players went back to the last club they played for where do you think most will be going? I think you know the answer. They haven?t gone backwards they are just better at developing players and their best go to the Jets more often. They are doing it right and if that?s a bad culture then you have issues or are just salty.
What?s more important, developing players or winning youth trophies?
Eventually when you develop so often it?s going to hurt your club and you?ll have people that don?t know what they are talking about say you?ve gone backwards.

The 14s wouldnt be going there. coach is a negative douche. Culture is toxic. Stop picking on kids as well.

[Hunter403]

This weeks PYL grand finals (so far)

13's

Div A- Edgy v Jaffas (1st v 2nd)
Div B - Adamstown 1 (4) def Lake Macqaurie 1 (2)
Div C - NIAS 3 v West Wallsend 2


14's

Div A - Jaffas v Weston (1st v 2nd)
Div B - Charlestown 4 def Lake Macquarie 0
Div C - West Wallsend 3 def NIAS 2


15's
Div A - North Coast v Maitland (3rd v 4th)
Div B - Mid Coast 5 def New Lambton 1
Div C - Thornton 3 def NIAS 2


16's
Div A - Olympic v Edgy (1st v 2nd)
Div B - New Lambton 1 def South Cardiff 0
Div C - Thornton 2 def Kahibah 0


18's
Div A - North Coast v Maitland (2nd v 4th)
Div B - New Lambton 2 def Adamstown 0
Div C - Kahibah 2 (5) def West Wallsend 2 (3)


Well done to all the teams and players involved.

[KITZ]

This weeks PYL grand finals (so far)

13's

Div A- Edgy v Jaffas (1st v 2nd)
Div B - Adamstown 1 (4) def Lake Macqaurie 1 (2)
Div C - NIAS 3 v West Wallsend 2


14's

Div A - Jaffas v Weston (1st v 2nd)
Div B - Charlestown 4 def Lake Macquarie 0
Div C - West Wallsend 3 def NIAS 2


15's
Div A - North Coast v Maitland (3rd v 4th)
Div B - Mid Coast 5 def New Lambton 1
Div C - Thornton 3 def NIAS 2


16's
Div A - Olympic v Edgy (1st v 2nd)
Div B - New Lambton 1 def South Cardiff 0
Div C - Thornton 2 def Kahibah 0


18's
Div A - North Coast v Maitland (2nd v 4th)
Div B - New Lambton 2 def Adamstown 0
Div C - Kahibah 2 (5) def West Wallsend 2 (3)


Well done to all the teams and players involved.

good luck to the teams playing today, shame to be missing it today, the games last week were cracking!

[Taffy]

Edgy 13s and Jaffas 14s get the quadruple. What's with Edgeworth and their 16s though? Top 4 team (have been for years), go and win the grand final convincingly against a dominant Olympic but was told by a few people yesterday that every player has been told to retrial.

[matjpacker]

Edgy 13s and Jaffas 14s get the quadruple. What's with Edgeworth and their 16s though? Top 4 team (have been for years), go and win the grand final convincingly against a dominant Olympic but was told by a few people yesterday that every player has been told to retrial.

The jump from 16s to 18s can be a big one, and I guess it also depends on how many may age out of their 18s, there may not be a whole lot aging out and therefore not a lot of spots available.

[plague]

Whilst sitting atop the umpires chair at Adamstown tennis courts yesterday, bored with the ever increasing incidents of sexual assault inflicted on me by bored middle aged housewives, I turned my attention to the football goings on next door. So without further ado, lets hand out some awards for the mums, dads, bored siblings and attention seeking clubmates who didnt make it to the final day.

Supporters of the year awards.

Best referees: Edgeworth 13s. An amazing display of knowing every rule inside and out as written in stone by the forefathers of the game. In an amazing turn of events it turned out every foul on one of their players was a justified and correct decision, but anything awarded against them was in fact completely wrong and an affront to officialdom everywhere. To be the only team to go through the day without committing a real foul is a testament to the team and leaves no one in doubt as to why they were clearly the best team in the grade for the year.

Most respectful: Jaffas 14s. The care taken by parents watching the game knowing that the person to their rights kid got cut was wonderful to see. Although half of them were asleep anyway after 3 mins with the result being in the bag.

Worst haircuts: Maitland. Seriously, do we have that bad a labour shortage in the country that there are people wielding scissors up that way who have never taken a lesson? Ive seen shearers take more care with the end result of a job.

Best signs: Maitland. "Go Maitland". Simple yet effective. Because Maitland did, in fact, go. Well done on the 2 titles.

Worst fans: North Coast, and its not even close. Some highlights: complaining about the sun being in their eyes (but refusing to walk to the other side of the ground where there was no issue), to complaining about every call, to threatening the safety of some Maitland fans (good luck with that one Superdad), to not knowing how penalty shootouts work there was so much ignorance on show it was amazing. To think that these people are in charge of protecting one of Australia's most important assets (Bonville golf club) frightens me no end.

But the highlight of the day was this idiot lady cheering and commenting on a kid for a good 15 mins, calling him out and encouraging his efforts, only to be told by another parent later that the kid she was cheering on wasnt in fact the correct kid, but was in fact a Maitland player and her lad was wearing a different coloured shirt altogether. We dont need prison reform in this country, we need anyone caught breaking the law to ride the bus both ways to and from Coffs with these parents every 2nd week until they are scared straight.

Most shocked fans: Joint winner!!!! Olympic and Edgeworth 16s. Because who the hell saw that performance coming.

Best fans: Easy, Kev Davidsons rocket gave the people what they wanted. Maso's went off. Proper football moment.

Enjoy your football, no doubt some clubs already have the 12 year olds back in the gym. Excellence never sleeps, but I do. Leave me alone.



Cheers,
plague.

[TopCorner]

Whilst sitting atop the umpires chair at Adamstown tennis courts yesterday, bored with the ever increasing incidents of sexual assault inflicted on me by bored middle aged housewives, I turned my attention to the football goings on next door. So without further ado, lets hand out some awards for the mums, dads, bored siblings and attention seeking clubmates who didnt make it to the final day.

Supporters of the year awards.

Best referees: Edgeworth 13s. An amazing display of knowing every rule inside and out as written in stone by the forefathers of the game. In an amazing turn of events it turned out every foul on one of their players was a justified and correct decision, but anything awarded against them was in fact completely wrong and an affront to officialdom everywhere. To be the only team to go through the day without committing a real foul is a testament to the team and leaves no one in doubt as to why they were clearly the best team in the grade for the year.

Most respectful: Jaffas 14s. The care taken by parents watching the game knowing that the person to their rights kid got cut was wonderful to see. Although half of them were asleep anyway after 3 mins with the result being in the bag.

Worst haircuts: Maitland. Seriously, do we have that bad a labour shortage in the country that there are people wielding scissors up that way who have never taken a lesson? Ive seen shearers take more care with the end result of a job.

Best signs: Maitland. "Go Maitland". Simple yet effective. Because Maitland did, in fact, go. Well done on the 2 titles.

Worst fans: North Coast, and its not even close. Some highlights: complaining about the sun being in their eyes (but refusing to walk to the other side of the ground where there was no issue), to complaining about every call, to threatening the safety of some Maitland fans (good luck with that one Superdad), to not knowing how penalty shootouts work there was so much ignorance on show it was amazing. To think that these people are in charge of protecting one of Australia's most important assets (Bonville golf club) frightens me no end.

But the highlight of the day was this idiot lady cheering and commenting on a kid for a good 15 mins, calling him out and encouraging his efforts, only to be told by another parent later that the kid she was cheering on wasnt in fact the correct kid, but was in fact a Maitland player and her lad was wearing a different coloured shirt altogether. We dont need prison reform in this country, we need anyone caught breaking the law to ride the bus both ways to and from Coffs with these parents every 2nd week until they are scared straight.

Most shocked fans: Joint winner!!!! Olympic and Edgeworth 16s. Because who the hell saw that performance coming.

Best fans: Easy, Kev Davidsons rocket gave the people what they wanted. Maso's went off. Proper football moment.

Enjoy your football, no doubt some clubs already have the 12 year olds back in the gym. Excellence never sleeps, but I do. Leave me alone.



Cheers,
plague.

Hope that mum cooked something nice ? back to the computer in the basement 🤦*♂️

[TopCorner]

@doopche youd be a fair chance at getting the Head Coach gig in 2024 wouldn?t you now that old mate has moved on?

[Doopche]

@doopche youd be a fair chance at getting the Head Coach gig in 2024 wouldn?t you now that old mate has moved on?

I thought you said I was already the coach? And now I?m applying for a Job? Sorry but the jokes gone over my head you?ll have to fill me in. Whose old mate.

[Doopche]

Whilst sitting atop the umpires chair at Adamstown tennis courts yesterday, bored with the ever increasing incidents of sexual assault inflicted on me by bored middle aged housewives, I turned my attention to the football goings on next door. So without further ado, lets hand out some awards for the mums, dads, bored siblings and attention seeking clubmates who didnt make it to the final day.

Supporters of the year awards.

Best referees: Edgeworth 13s. An amazing display of knowing every rule inside and out as written in stone by the forefathers of the game. In an amazing turn of events it turned out every foul on one of their players was a justified and correct decision, but anything awarded against them was in fact completely wrong and an affront to officialdom everywhere. To be the only team to go through the day without committing a real foul is a testament to the team and leaves no one in doubt as to why they were clearly the best team in the grade for the year.

Most respectful: Jaffas 14s. The care taken by parents watching the game knowing that the person to their rights kid got cut was wonderful to see. Although half of them were asleep anyway after 3 mins with the result being in the bag.

Worst haircuts: Maitland. Seriously, do we have that bad a labour shortage in the country that there are people wielding scissors up that way who have never taken a lesson? Ive seen shearers take more care with the end result of a job.

Best signs: Maitland. "Go Maitland". Simple yet effective. Because Maitland did, in fact, go. Well done on the 2 titles.

Worst fans: North Coast, and its not even close. Some highlights: complaining about the sun being in their eyes (but refusing to walk to the other side of the ground where there was no issue), to complaining about every call, to threatening the safety of some Maitland fans (good luck with that one Superdad), to not knowing how penalty shootouts work there was so much ignorance on show it was amazing. To think that these people are in charge of protecting one of Australia's most important assets (Bonville golf club) frightens me no end.

But the highlight of the day was this idiot lady cheering and commenting on a kid for a good 15 mins, calling him out and encouraging his efforts, only to be told by another parent later that the kid she was cheering on wasnt in fact the correct kid, but was in fact a Maitland player and her lad was wearing a different coloured shirt altogether. We dont need prison reform in this country, we need anyone caught breaking the law to ride the bus both ways to and from Coffs with these parents every 2nd week until they are scared straight.

Most shocked fans: Joint winner!!!! Olympic and Edgeworth 16s. Because who the hell saw that performance coming.

Best fans: Easy, Kev Davidsons rocket gave the people what they wanted. Maso's went off. Proper football moment.

Enjoy your football, no doubt some clubs already have the 12 year olds back in the gym. Excellence never sleeps, but I do. Leave me alone.



Cheers,
plague.

LOL was wondering how GF day went as I couldn?t get there myself but this helped thanks. Did see that Kev goal but. Some strike

[Largesse]

I've seen the "success" of the PYL celebrated by NNSW with select stats justifying the decision to change the competition. Here are some more figures to throw into the mix:
40% of PYL div B grand finalists, including two winners, are now destined for Div 2.
While 0 Cooks Hill teams made a grand final, and 100% play Div 1 next year.
Olympic
Div 1 clubs started early recruitment with an advantage as they could guarantee div 1 football and poach as they please. Same will happen next year, making it difficult to retain talent to bring teams back up.

There may have been fewer blowouts but it's not an unqualified success.

[samcan]

I've seen the "success" of the PYL celebrated by NNSW with select stats justifying the decision to change the competition. Here are some more figures to throw into the mix:
40% of PYL div B grand finalists, including two winners, are now destined for Div 2.
While 0 Cooks Hill teams made a grand final, and 100% play Div 1 next year.
Olympic
Div 1 clubs started early recruitment with an advantage as they could guarantee div 1 football and poach as they please. Same will happen next year, making it difficult to retain talent to bring teams back up.

There may have been fewer blowouts but it's not an unqualified success.

Only in your opinion. New format was awesome and a success.

Clubs sitting idle on youth getting found out now. Either get active or deservedly go to B or C grade. Valo, Maitland have done ok outside of the "big" 4.

Now getting fair and equitable recruitment is a different story. Its dodgy at best but keep in mind its the parents who take their kids to the usual clubs for trophies. It used to be 2 clubs but now probably 6 or 7 including North coast

[Bremsstrahlung]

I've seen the "success" of the PYL celebrated by NNSW with select stats justifying the decision to change the competition. Here are some more figures to throw into the mix:
40% of PYL div B grand finalists, including two winners, are now destined for Div 2.
While 0 Cooks Hill teams made a grand final, and 100% play Div 1 next year.
Olympic
Div 1 clubs started early recruitment with an advantage as they could guarantee div 1 football and poach as they please. Same will happen next year, making it difficult to retain talent to bring teams back up.

There may have been fewer blowouts but it's not an unqualified success.

So 60% of Div B finalists will be in Div 1? Sounds pretty good.

And does that mean Cooks Hill performed well throughout all grades? To not have one grade propping up the rest. A measure of success is not making grand finals, it’s consistency and improvement. And they must have done alright if they are in div 1 still.

Nobody has to play for clubs. If a club can build a strong culture and improve players and work towards something, they will flourish.


Not meaning to cast aspersions, but it sounds like you’re part of one of those 40% made the grand final but won’t play Div 1 clubs.
I agree, while working on a club championship model, there will be some successful teams that don’t get the reward or division they deserve. And conversely, some underperforming teams remain in a high division due to other teams performing well.

The fairest is a separate comp for all ages. But the logistics would be very tricky and I really like, and hope clubs are embracing, the idea of creating a club culture.

[sapdad]

While 0 Cooks Hill teams made a grand final, and 100% play Div 1 next year.

There is enough talent in Newcastle for between 3 and 4 teams per age group.Everyone else is in the middle.Dont kid yourselves otherwise.Embrace the middle,get your kids better coaches and TD's (like some clubs are doing) and give them a reason to stay.The carry on Ive heard from one club in particular about player exodus is laughable considering the way they've behaved this year.Until then the more ambitious kids are going to want to play in the top few clubs,and the top clubs are going to chase the best talent from the middle.To single out Cooks Hill and intimate they are undeserving of a spot is pretty strange considering what they are building over there.I'd love to see who you consider more worthy of their spot.

[Largesse]

Your point around there being 3 or 4 teams is about right but I'd say enough for about 6 clubs. If you're outside of those, you develop your best for them to simply move on, which makes it tough to then make your way back up as a club.

No issue with Cooks Hill and good that they're supporting development. They definitely improved across the year. Was just pointing out they didn't have a finalist team but are going back up.

The overall evenness of Div B showed those clubs are second tier and the system worked well. Div A had some second half failures though with no consequence for next year, just left with the option to go shopping.

Will be interesting to see if it's a yo yo situation with same clubs going up and down.

[Hunter403]

Clubs sitting idle on youth getting found out now. Either get active or deservedly go to B or C grade.

Your comment seems to infer that any club in B or C is idle on youth. I can assure you that my club certainly isn't and that would be the same for most clubs from a NL1 back ground.
We run 2-3 training sessions per week, have wet weather alternative football training venues, provide pre season and wet weather gym sessions, dedicated coaches and brilliant admin backing it all up.
I'd suggest that clubs like mine are far from idle and are probably more active than some previously designated NPL clubs.
The difficulty remains that talent still thinks they get a better future playing for a club whose seniors are in the NPL over the NL1 and that there is not enough talented kids out there yet.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Your comment seems to infer that any club in B or C is idle on youth. I can assure you that my club certainly isn't and that would be the same for most clubs from a NL1 back ground.
We run 2-3 training sessions per week, have wet weather alternative football training venues, provide pre season and wet weather gym sessions, dedicated coaches and brilliant admin backing it all up.
I'd suggest that clubs like mine are far from idle and are probably more active than some previously designated NPL clubs.
The difficulty remains that talent still thinks they get a better future playing for a club whose seniors are in the NPL over the NL1 and that there is not enough talented kids out there yet.

It’ll take some time to shift the mindset.
But we are heading in the right direction.
There will be some NPL clubs happy to change their squads each year based on their first grade/NPL status and collect the $$$$, offer little in return other than a year in the jersey, players and parents move on.
Clubs that build youth and compete against the better youth teams will build their reputation accordingly. I hope. Especially this NL1 clubs that take it seriously.

Only a couple of clubs seem to be getting a good overall program from JDL, PYL to NPL.

Some clubs will always value and do youth programs better. Unfortunately, it seems the “best development” pathway involves switching clubs a few times as different clubs have different strengths.
Not necessarily a problem, but it would be the goal to give everyone development opportunities all the way through.

[samcan]

Your comment seems to infer that any club in B or C is idle on youth. I can assure you that my club certainly isn't and that would be the same for most clubs from a NL1 back ground.
We run 2-3 training sessions per week, have wet weather alternative football training venues, provide pre season and wet weather gym sessions, dedicated coaches and brilliant admin backing it all up.
I'd suggest that clubs like mine are far from idle and are probably more active than some previously designated NPL clubs.
The difficulty remains that talent still thinks they get a better future playing for a club whose seniors are in the NPL over the NL1 and that there is not enough talented kids out there yet.

Maybe your club is active but many still arent really doing the right thing.

Even some of the big 4 focus on recruitment and results over "development".

As to my other point are you getting the best kids in your area to sign with your club or are they going to other clubs. Until you get this right it will be a battle.
Are you getting coaches who really teach basics? Are they helping each other so the culture develops between ages? Many clubs ive seen the teams dont like the coach above or below. Are coaches humble or narcissistic robots?
Im not surprised at where our development is due to these effects. and ffs can we get u13s14s to run 4 passes together.... yawn

[Taffy]

I've seen the "success" of the PYL celebrated by NNSW with select stats justifying the decision to change the competition. Here are some more figures to throw into the mix:
40% of PYL div B grand finalists, including two winners, are now destined for Div 2.
While 0 Cooks Hill teams made a grand final, and 100% play Div 1 next year.

They get to go in Div 1 because overall their club performed better. 2 winners may be destined for Div 2 but that is a reflection on the overall club not individual teams.

Of course had Belswans not shit the bed and only manage 1 point in the final 2 weeks and/or had managed to get one more win across all 7 rounds then it would be them going up and Cooks Hill going down.



Olympic
Div 1 clubs started early recruitment with an advantage as they could guarantee div 1 football and poach as they please. Same will happen next year, making it difficult to retain talent to bring teams back up.

You are aware that this was happening before, clubs poaching isn't new?

What has happened is some of these lower Div 1 clubs now won't lose a bunch of players because they hated being destroyed every week. Happy to play, most teams are now more often playing more competitive matches year round which is good for development and enjoyment for all players.

More players, teams and clubs have got to experience finals, first time in a long time that Adamstown teams were in a final series, who would've expected Lakes teams to be in a grand final?


There may have been fewer blowouts but it's not an unqualified success.

It's shown that it is a lot better than what it has been the past few years.

[Taffy]

Some clubs will always value and do youth programs better. Unfortunately, it seems the ?best development? pathway involves switching clubs a few times as different clubs have different strengths.
Not necessarily a problem, but it would be the goal to give everyone development opportunities all the way through.


I'd disagree with this. While some kids have gone alright I know plenty of kids that have switched clubs every year and while they are good in their age group, many of the better players that were in their U13 team and stuck with the same club are now playing in higher age groups and seniors.

[Bremsstrahlung]

I'd disagree with this. While some kids have gone alright I know plenty of kids that have switched clubs every year and while they are good in their age group, many of the better players that were in their U13 team and stuck with the same club are now playing in higher age groups and seniors.

As I said, that’s the ideal situation, sticking with one club from JDL-PYL and NPL.

My point was that at the moment there wouldn’t be too many clubs that do all 3 very well.

[Alton]

As I said, that?s the ideal situation, sticking with one club from JDL-PYL and NPL.

My point was that at the moment there wouldn?t be too many clubs that do all 3 very well.

I?m sorry but this is the most complicated structure of youth football ever put forward in NNSW, it?s as confusing as the management/operation of senior comps finals series where the flagship premier comp is done and dusted before lower divisions. Who is putting all these ideas together?

[WOW2.0]

Surely, it would make it easier to have a regular promotion/relegation for an entire season...finish bottom 2, get relegated for the entirety of next season

This would also make it easier to provide a more equitable outcome for individual teams, rather than having to be dragged down(or up) by the "club championship" structure...which really is a pretty meaningless metric

As a parent, it would also help identify appropriate fee levels, i.e. pay X, get X...(as is, I can't imagine the div 2 "NPL" teams will lower their fees to a tier 2 level)

[Taffy]

Surely, it would make it easier to have a regular promotion/relegation for an entire season...finish bottom 2, get relegated for the entirety of next season

That was one of the original proposals, some of the lower Div1 clubs pushed back and raged about this about how it wouldn't be fair, think they wanted to still be able to say they were a Div1 team, to attract better kids and continue to charge more.


This would also make it easier to provide a more equitable outcome for individual teams, rather than having to be dragged down(or up) by the "club championship" structure...which really is a pretty meaningless metric

Not meaningless at all, shows if a club is able to foster long term and consistent development and not just because a team was lucky or had one strong cohort. There would still be all the issues with different teams playing all over the state.


As a parent, it would also help identify appropriate fee levels, i.e. pay X, get X...(as is, I can't imagine the div 2 "NPL" teams will lower their fees to a tier 2 level)

Would clubs have to charge players different rates based on which team is in Div 1 or Div 2?

[WOW2.0]

I still think the club championship is meaningless (at least the way it is calculated), look at the Jets youth finishing 2nd...despite finishing 11th, 9th, 9th, 1st & 9th...those results should never equate to a 2nd (IMO)

If it was by team (which I am a fan of), charging different rates might well be something to consider but they are free to charge what they want (I think revisiting fees is a pathway for clubs to grow their youth results though, attracting a higher standard of players then they would otherwise get...another reason publishing fees to NNSW's website (early) should be mandatory

(I haven't seen much sharing of resources between teams, so don't see much issue in having teams in different locations..if teams found themselves in different divisions)

[Eastwest]

Clubs get to go in Div 1 because overall their club performed better.
You are aware poaching isn't new?

What has happened is some of these lower Div 1 clubs now won't lose a bunch of players because they hated being destroyed every week. Happy to play, most teams are now more often playing more competitive matches year round which is good for development and enjoyment for all players.

More players, teams and clubs have got to experience finals, first time in a long time that Adamstown teams were in a final series, who would've expected Lakes teams to be in a grand final?

I agree above. Current method isnt perfect but is better than the last debacle.

You dont need to be top 4 to get a win. The bottom 4-5 teams in each grade used to endure the slaughter for a whole year. at least now they can break away for some success and as we call it here "development".

Not real sure why the word development is mentioned so much here when 99.9% players never leave the area and a handful fill out NBN comp.
Enjoyment, fitness and being a tough guy will get you as far in football and in all aspects of life as well.
"Development" is a cash cow for mine.

[The Bear]

I still think the club championship is meaningless (at least the way it is calculated), look at the Jets youth finishing 2nd...despite finishing 11th, 9th, 9th, 1st & 9th...those results should never equate to a 2nd (IMO)M)

Agree with this. Points should be allocated on the position a team is on the ladder not how many games they win 1st gets 10 points, 2nd 8, bottom zero or similar. Do that and the club championship looks a lot different. Removes the numbers skewed by one dominant team.

[The Bear]

Not real sure why the word development is mentioned so much here when 99.9% players never leave the area and a handful fill out NBN comp.
Enjoyment, fitness and being a tough guy will get you as far in football and in all aspects of life as well.
"Development" is a cash cow for mine.

100%. ?Development? totally overused when you see the numbers of players earning a living from the game locally. Club fees get the kids the life lessons. Privates and Extras fees get the coaches mortgage paid.

[Taffy]

Not real sure why the word development is mentioned so much here when 99.9% players never leave the area and a handful fill out NBN comp.

That is the way under the old method. Will take some time for the current method to start bringing in better players

[Aegon]

Agree with this. Points should be allocated on the position a team is on the ladder not how many games they win 1st gets 10 points, 2nd 8, bottom zero or similar. Do that and the club championship looks a lot different. Removes the numbers skewed by one dominant team.

I took a few minutes and ran the numbers.
Numbers allocated are number of teams minus -1 for first descending. e.g. in Phase A 1st place gets 13, 2nd place gets 12 all the way to 14th who gets 0.

Div 1 Phase A

Jaffas = 13-13-6-11-10 -- 53
Magic = 10-12-13-10-7 -- 52
Maitland = 9-9-10-12-9 -- 49
Olympic = 11-4-8-13-13 -- 49
North Coast = 6-8-9-7-12 -- 42
Valentine = 8-6-12-8-5 -- 41
Edgeworth = 12-3-7-9-8 -- 39
Mid Coast = 1-11-11-3-2 -- 28
Weston = 4-10-5-4-4 -- 27
Lakes = 7-5-4-5-3 -- 24
Adamstown = 5-0-0-2-11 -- 18
Azzurri = 2-7-1-0-6 -- 16
New Lambton = 3-1-2-6-1 -- 13
Cooks Hill = 0-2-3-1-0 -- 6


DIV A Phase B

Olympic = 5-1-3-7-7 -- 23
Jaffas = 6-7-0-3-5 -- 21
Edgeworth = 7-2-2-6-3 -- 20
Magic = 4-3-6-5-2 -- 20
Maitland = 2-5-4-4-4 -- 19
Valentine = 3-4-7-2-1 -- 17
North Coast = 1-0-5-1-6 -- 13
Weston = 0-6-1-0-0 -- 7


DIV B Phase B

Lakes = 7-5-6-4-6 -- 28
Mid Coast = 5-7-7-1-4 -- 24
New Lambton = 3-2-5-7-7 -- 24
Cooks Hill = 2-6-4-3-1 -- 16
Belswans = 4-1-3-5-3 -- 16
Adamstown = 6-0-1-2-5 -- 14
South Cardiff = 1-3-0-6-0 -- 10
Azzurri = 0-4-2-0-2 -- 8


There doesn't seem to be a dramatic difference from the actuals, although Mid Coast and BelSwans might want to argue the semantics.

[Aegon]

I still think the club championship is meaningless (at least the way it is calculated), look at the Jets youth finishing 2nd...despite finishing 11th, 9th, 9th, 1st & 9th...those results should never equate to a 2nd (IMO)

If it was by team (which I am a fan of), charging different rates might well be something to consider but they are free to charge what they want (I think revisiting fees is a pathway for clubs to grow their youth results though, attracting a higher standard of players then they would otherwise get...another reason publishing fees to NNSW's website (early) should be mandatory

(I haven't seen much sharing of resources between teams, so don't see much issue in having teams in different locations..if teams found themselves in different divisions)

It's not 11, 9, 9, 1, 9 as the 13's don't count towards club championship in FNSW Youth Leagues.

I ran the same numbers for FNSW YL1 as per my last post. Actual Points and position in brackets.


Wanderers = 6-15-12-14 -- 47 (1st - 213pts)
Mariners = 2-14-10-15 -- 41 (3rd - 197pts)
Jets = 7-7-15-7 -- 36 (2nd - 198pts)
Syd Olympic = 15-12-7-2 -- 36 (4th - 195pts)
Syd FC = 14-6-8-8 -- 36 (5th - 194pts)
Syd United = 10-2-11-12 -- 35 (9th - 179pts)
Blacktown = 8-4-13-9 -- 34 (8th - 179pts)
SD Raiders = 11-8-9-5 -- 33 (6th - 185pts)
Marconi = 12-9-3-6 -- 30 (7th - 180pts)
Hills FC = 9-5-2-13 -- 29 (12th - 162pts)
Manly = 3-1-14-11 -- 29 (10th - 166pts)
Sutherland = 5-13-4-4 -- 26 (11th - 162pts)
APIA = 13-3-6-1 -- 23 (14th - 147pts)
Wollongong = 1-10-1-10 -- 22 (13th - 148pts)
Rockdale = 0-11-5-0 -- 16 (15th - 135pts)
Mt Druitt = 4-0-0-3 -- 7 (16th - 85pts)


Regardless of how you look at it, the differences are minor.

The Jets 2nd (or 3rd regardless of how you look at it) are the only team who didn't have a team finish lower than 9th. Consistency and one high achieving team got them to where they were in the club championship.

[JettyJet]

It's not 11, 9, 9, 1, 9 as the 13's don't count towards club championship in FNSW Youth Leagues.

I ran the same numbers for FNSW YL1 as per my last post. Actual Points and position in brackets.


Wanderers = 6-15-12-14 -- 47 (1st - 213pts)
Mariners = 2-14-10-15 -- 41 (3rd - 197pts)
Jets = 7-7-15-7 -- 36 (2nd - 198pts)
Syd Olympic = 15-12-7-2 -- 36 (4th - 195pts)
Syd FC = 14-6-8-8 -- 36 (5th - 194pts)
Syd United = 10-2-11-12 -- 35 (9th - 179pts)
Blacktown = 8-4-13-9 -- 34 (8th - 179pts)
SD Raiders = 11-8-9-5 -- 33 (6th - 185pts)
Marconi = 12-9-3-6 -- 30 (7th - 180pts)
Hills FC = 9-5-2-13 -- 29 (12th - 162pts)
Manly = 3-1-14-11 -- 29 (10th - 166pts)
Sutherland = 5-13-4-4 -- 26 (11th - 162pts)
APIA = 13-3-6-1 -- 23 (14th - 147pts)
Wollongong = 1-10-1-10 -- 22 (13th - 148pts)
Rockdale = 0-11-5-0 -- 16 (15th - 135pts)
Mt Druitt = 4-0-0-3 -- 7 (16th - 85pts)


Regardless of how you look at it, the differences are minor.

The Jets 2nd (or 3rd regardless of how you look at it) are the only team who didn't have a team finish lower than 9th. Consistency and one high achieving team got them to where they were in the club championship.

Ssssh don't use facts and commonsense with the haters.

[TopCorner]

Ssssh don't use facts and commonsense with the haters.

You called?

[Hunter403]

I took a few minutes and ran the numbers.
Numbers allocated are number of teams minus -1 for first descending. e.g. in Phase A 1st place gets 13, 2nd place gets 12 all the way to 14th who gets 0.

Div 1 Phase A

Jaffas = 13-13-6-11-10 -- 53
Magic = 10-12-13-10-7 -- 52
Maitland = 9-9-10-12-9 -- 49
Olympic = 11-4-8-13-13 -- 49
North Coast = 6-8-9-7-12 -- 42
Valentine = 8-6-12-8-5 -- 41
Edgeworth = 12-3-7-9-8 -- 39
Mid Coast = 1-11-11-3-2 -- 28
Weston = 4-10-5-4-4 -- 27
Lakes = 7-5-4-5-3 -- 24
Adamstown = 5-0-0-2-11 -- 18
Azzurri = 2-7-1-0-6 -- 16
New Lambton = 3-1-2-6-1 -- 13
Cooks Hill = 0-2-3-1-0 -- 6


DIV A Phase B

Olympic = 5-1-3-7-7 -- 23
Jaffas = 6-7-0-3-5 -- 21
Edgeworth = 7-2-2-6-3 -- 20
Magic = 4-3-6-5-2 -- 20
Maitland = 2-5-4-4-4 -- 19
Valentine = 3-4-7-2-1 -- 17
North Coast = 1-0-5-1-6 -- 13
Weston = 0-6-1-0-0 -- 7


DIV B Phase B

Lakes = 7-5-6-4-6 -- 28
Mid Coast = 5-7-7-1-4 -- 24
New Lambton = 3-2-5-7-7 -- 24
Cooks Hill = 2-6-4-3-1 -- 16
Belswans = 4-1-3-5-3 -- 16
Adamstown = 6-0-1-2-5 -- 14
South Cardiff = 1-3-0-6-0 -- 10
Azzurri = 0-4-2-0-2 -- 8


There doesn't seem to be a dramatic difference from the actuals, although Mid Coast and BelSwans might want to argue the semantics.

Great effort but something is missing. You missed almost half of the league :wink::wink:

[Aegon]

Great effort but something is missing. You missed almost half of the league :wink::wink:

Time constraints. I was concentrating on the Pro/Rel impact. I didn't think adding Div 2 phase A would change South Cardiff or BelSwans being promoted and DIV C Phase B had no promotion capability or impact on the club championship.

[The Bear]

It's not 11, 9, 9, 1, 9 as the 13's don't count towards club championship in FNSW Youth Leagues.

I ran the same numbers for FNSW YL1 as per my last post. Actual Points and position in brackets.


Wanderers = 6-15-12-14 -- 47 (1st - 213pts)
Mariners = 2-14-10-15 -- 41 (3rd - 197pts)
Jets = 7-7-15-7 -- 36 (2nd - 198pts)
Syd Olympic = 15-12-7-2 -- 36 (4th - 195pts)
Syd FC = 14-6-8-8 -- 36 (5th - 194pts)
Syd United = 10-2-11-12 -- 35 (9th - 179pts)
Blacktown = 8-4-13-9 -- 34 (8th - 179pts)
SD Raiders = 11-8-9-5 -- 33 (6th - 185pts)
Marconi = 12-9-3-6 -- 30 (7th - 180pts)
Hills FC = 9-5-2-13 -- 29 (12th - 162pts)
Manly = 3-1-14-11 -- 29 (10th - 166pts)
Sutherland = 5-13-4-4 -- 26 (11th - 162pts)
APIA = 13-3-6-1 -- 23 (14th - 147pts)
Wollongong = 1-10-1-10 -- 22 (13th - 148pts)
Rockdale = 0-11-5-0 -- 16 (15th - 135pts)
Mt Druitt = 4-0-0-3 -- 7 (16th - 85pts)


Regardless of how you look at it, the differences are minor.

The Jets 2nd (or 3rd regardless of how you look at it) are the only team who didn't have a team finish lower than 9th. Consistency and one high achieving team got them to where they were in the club championship.

I admire the effort that has gone into this. Well done. I?m not sure your numbers really work s because any points system would be heavily weighted for those teams at the top. It is not so simple as ladder position = points.

You are right that there is a general consistency with the Jets performances but the other member is also right to suggest that one first place and 3 middle spots shouldn?t equate to second spot on a club championship. If it does equate to that, then the club championship system doesn?t work.

[Oldy]

You are right that there is a general consistency with the Jets performances but the other member is also right to suggest that one first place and 3 middle spots shouldn?t equate to second spot on a club championship. If it does equate to that, then the club championship system doesn?t work.

It shouldnt but it does. Measuring consistency doesnt always have to look normal. Its bizzare but so it football. Although i too think the Jets position is overrated

What it doesnt show are coaches are getting the best out of their players. You can have a technically talented side that loses most games. low level physical long ball driving up the table etc.

[JettyJet]

It shouldnt but it does. Measuring consistency doesnt always have to look normal. Its bizzare but so it football. Although i too think the Jets position is overrated

What it doesnt show are coaches are getting the best out of their players. You can have a technically talented side that loses most games. low level physical long ball driving up the table etc.

For years the Jest have been criticized for playing backwards and sideward ball, no physicality etc.

[WOW2.0]

It's not 11, 9, 9, 1, 9 as the 13's don't count towards club championship in FNSW Youth.

I don't think that is the most accurate way to divy out numbers either, though

Excluding the 13s, 3x 9th places and a 1st shouldn't be 3rd, (let alone a 2nd)

(Not that my opinion matters of course, still does not "feel" like a successful year with those numbers)

[JettyJet]

Honestly.... Because it does not suit your narrative...
The points accumulated in 14's, 15's, 16's and 18's by all those teams combined means they finished higher then 14 other teams. Including Sydney FC and CCM.
That's just the facts. They finished ahead of the WINNERS, WSW in TWO age groups 14's and 16's.
It's not that hard to understand.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Should 3 x 9th finishes and a 1st equate to 2nd or 3rd on a club championship? No.

Does it? Yes

Would it usually? No. Probably not.


For us to be 2nd/3rd there must be some pretty inconsistent clubs across the whole competition. That’s what I’m taking from this.

[JettyJet]

Should 3 x 9th finishes and a 1st equate to 2nd or 3rd on a club championship? No.

Does it? Yes

Would it usually? No. Probably not.


For us to be 2nd/3rd there must be some pretty inconsistent clubs across the whole competition. That’s what I’m taking from this.

What?

[Bremsstrahlung]

What?

Which bit did you not understand?


Those finishes of 9th, 9th, 1st, 9th should not equate to 2nd on a club championship model. The fact that it does, tells me that other clubs are just as inconsistent across the ages.
I think you’d be hard up to find another competition where those table positions equate to a second place.


But, it has this year, so good on them.

[WOW2.0]

How about only club championship points accumulated by the teams that make finals

Average ladder positions ≠ anything to crow about ��

It really does show just a level of inconsistency in the clubs as mentioned above

[The Bear]

Magic - 14?s asst gone. 15?s head coach gone. 16?s head coach gone.

Discuss.

[Reds Forever]

Plus no TD.

May even lose their ground going off paper yesterday.

[sapdad]

Magic - 14?s asst gone. 15?s head coach gone. 16?s head coach gone.

Discuss.

Plenty of other clubs out there without players or coaches and are way less attractive a destination than Magic.Ive got a feeling they will be fine.

[samcan]

Magic - 14?s asst gone. 15?s head coach gone. 16?s head coach gone.

Discuss.

So they retain one of the poorest coaches in the league. That'll do me.