2024 Premier Youth Leagues

[matjpacker]

NNSWF can be really slow to update and correct the results once they have gone in. We have 3 matches that we have been waiting to have the results updated on since round 2 as they are currently recorded as an opposition win, despite our teams winning and us providing photos of the opposition clubs scoreboard, even with the opposing club also emailing them to verify our claim.

[WOW2.0]

Is squadi the actual table that nnsw go off? Or do they have a proper one that?s actually correct.

I'm not sure...but it is their official app for tracking all of this stuff

Data entry shouldn't be so hard...accuracy would be preferred to inaccurate real time scores (I feel)

[ForeverRed]

I kinda feel like everyone is onboard with the fact that squadi is a dumpster fire that northern should purge asap. But I do hope/assume that in the few days post match clubs & referees will sort any inaccuracies.
What?s a dumpster 🤦*♂️

[sapdad]

Im not 100% sure but from memory my son said that once scores/teamsheet data and cards are entered and confirmed on gameday via squadi they cant edit anything.So if theres any issues they can only be sorted out by NNSW.

[matjpacker]

Im not 100% sure but from memory my son said that once scores/teamsheet data and cards are entered and confirmed on gameday via squadi they cant edit anything.So if theres any issues they can only be sorted out by NNSW.

That is correct. We have got teams in PYLG that have incorrect scores, results, goal scorers, and unfortunately once the pre-game lock out starts clubs cannot access/change anything, post game there is also a lockout for the referees, not sure how long post game but I believe it is quite short too?after that you have to contact NNSWF for anything to be corrected, some change are quick and easy, others not so much.

[WOW2.0]

Been a while since a ladder update...but here we are (as at today)
Div1. Club championship update:

1. NCF ? 57pts
2. Jaffas ? 50pts
3. Olympic ? 42pts
4. Magic ? 35pts
5. Weston ? 30pts
6. Edgeworth ? 29pts
7. Maitland ? 29pts
8. Lake Macquarie ? 27pts
9. Valentine ? 23pts
10. New Lambton ? 14pts
11. Mid Coast ? 13pts
12. Cooks Hill - 4pts

[WOW2.0]

Div 2.


1. Charlestown ? 52pts
2. NIAS ? 45pts
3. West Wallsend ? 38pts
4. Rosebuds ? 28pts
5. South Cardiff ? 24pts
6. Cessnock ? 24pts
7. BelSwans ? 22pts
8. Kahibah ? 21pts
9. Singleton ? 15pts
10. Thornton ? 11pts
11. Toronto ? 7pts

[Hunter403]

Hopefully those club championship tables will be meaningful soon. Some have only played twice.

[WOW2.0]

That's true there is a variation in number of games played (wish I could add the spreadsheet)...would make it easier

So, so in fairness

DIV2 (MP)
Cessnock (24)
NIAS, Charlestown (23)
Toronto (20)
West Wallsend (19)
Rosebuds, Singleton (17)
South Cardiff, Thornton (15)
Belswans (14)
Kahibah (13)

DIV1 (MP)
NCF (30)
Weston (25)
Lake Macquarie (22)
Olympic, Cooks Hill (21)
Magic, Maitland (20)
New Lambton, Jaffas, Mid Coast (18)
Valentine (17)
Edgeworth (16)

[WOW2.0]

Update for Div1 (will wait for some more games for Div 2)

1. NCF (81pts) MP: 40
2. Jaffas (59pts) MP: 28
3. Olympic (52pts) MP: 26
4. Magic (50pts) MP: 27
5. Edgeworth (48pts) MP: 26
6. Lake Macquarie (39pts) MP: 27
7. Maitland (38pts) MP: 29
8. Valentine (38pts) MP: 27
9. Weston (30pts) MP: 28
10. Mid Coast (19pts) MP: 22
11. New Lambton (14pts) MP: 20
12. Cooks Hill (4pts) MP: 28

[KITZ]

Update for Div1 (will wait for some more games for Div 2)

1. NCF (81pts) MP: 40
2. Jaffas (59pts) MP: 28
3. Olympic (52pts) MP: 26
4. Magic (50pts) MP: 27
5. Edgeworth (48pts) MP: 26
6. Lake Macquarie (39pts) MP: 27
7. Maitland (38pts) MP: 29
8. Valentine (38pts) MP: 27
9. Weston (30pts) MP: 28
10. Mid Coast (19pts) MP: 22
11. New Lambton (14pts) MP: 20
12. Cooks Hill (4pts) MP: 28

Does that include last weekend?

[WOW2.0]

Everything that was entered into Squadi by late afternoon on Monday

The number of Matches Played (MP) I hope contextualises the positions


(The supporting spreadsheet does capture more than this snapshot...but can't post that here)

[WOW2.0]

Div 1:

1. NCF (87Pts) ? 45MP
2. Edgeworth (67Pts) ? 34MP
3. Olympic (64Pts) ? 32MP
4. Magic (63Pts) ? 33MP
5. Jaffas (62Pts) ? 32MP
6. Valentine (51Pts) ? 33MP
7. Maitland (46Pts) ? 38MP
8. Lake Macquarie (42Pts) ? 31MP
9. Weston (39Pts) ? 32MP
10. Mid Coast (22Pts) ? 27MP
11. New Lambton (15Pts) ? 25MP
12. Cooks Hill (12Pts) ? 35MP

(Thought bubble - as has been suggested lately that 18s should not be in PYLB, if so how would club championship stack up)
1. NCF (65Pts)
2. Olympic (54Pts)
3. Magic (53Pts)
4. Jaffas (50Pts)
5. Edgeworth (45Pts)
6. Valentine (43Pts)
7. Lake Macquarie (38Pts)
8. Weston (33Pts)
9. Maitland (31Pts)
10. Mid Coast (20Pts)
11. New Lambton (12Pts)
12. Cooks Hill (8Pts)

- - -
As at today:
Relegated Weston, Mid Coast, New Lambton and Cooks Hill

Losers of club based relegation would be:
Weston U14s currently in 7th
Weston U15s currently in 2nd
Weston U18s currently 8th

Mid Coast U16s currently 3rd

*Magic Vs Lakes game missing in 16s (Squadi didn't have those updated at the time)

[WOW2.0]

Div 2:

1. Charlestown (76Pts) ? 32MP
2. NIAS (64Pts) ? 30MP
3. South Cardiff (56Pts) ? 29MP
4. West Wallsend (51Pts) ? 32MP
5. Rosebuds (41Pts) ? 22MP
6. Belswans (40Pts) ? 24MP
7. Cessnock (34Pts) ? 34MP
8. Kahibah (28Pts) ? 23MP
9. Thornton (18Pts) ? 27MP
10. Toronto (17Pts) ? 29MP
11. Singleton (16Pts) ? 28MP

(Club Championship without 18s)
1. NIAS (64Pts)
2. Charlestown (60Pts)
3. South Cardiff (47Pts)
4. West Wallsend (39Pts)
5. Belswans (32Pts)
6. Rosebuds (32Pts)
7. Cessnock (27pts)
8. Kahibah (25Pts)
9. Toronto (17Pts)
10. Singleton (12Pts)
11. Thornton (11Pts)

Promotion candidates (Believe is top 4)
Charlestown, NIAS, South Cardiff, West Wallsend

Club relegation losers: (those teams in top 4 of age, but relegated based on club Championship status)
Rosebuds U16s currently 3rd
Rosebuds U18s currently 4th

Belswans U16s currently 4th

Kahibah U14s currently 3rd
Kahibah U15s currently 4th

Toronto U13s currently 4th

[The Magician]

Div 1:

1. NCF (87Pts) ? 45MP
2. Edgeworth (67Pts) ? 34MP
3. Olympic (64Pts) ? 32MP
4. Magic (63Pts) ? 33MP
5. Jaffas (62Pts) ? 32MP
6. Valentine (51Pts) ? 33MP
7. Maitland (46Pts) ? 38MP
8. Lake Macquarie (42Pts) ? 31MP
9. Weston (39Pts) ? 32MP
10. Mid Coast (22Pts) ? 27MP
11. New Lambton (15Pts) ? 25MP
12. Cooks Hill (12Pts) ? 35MP

(Thought bubble - as has been suggested lately that 18s should not be in PYLB, if so how would club championship stack up)
1. NCF (65Pts)
2. Olympic (54Pts)
3. Magic (53Pts)
4. Jaffas (50Pts)
5. Edgeworth (45Pts)
6. Valentine (43Pts)
7. Lake Macquarie (38Pts)
8. Weston (33Pts)
9. Maitland (31Pts)
10. Mid Coast (20Pts)
11. New Lambton (12Pts)
12. Cooks Hill (8Pts)

- - -
As at today:
Relegated Weston, Mid Coast, New Lambton and Cooks Hill

Losers of club based relegation would be:
Weston U14s currently in 7th
Weston U15s currently in 2nd
Weston U18s currently 8th

Mid Coast U16s currently 3rd

*Magic Vs Lakes game missing in 16s (Squadi didn't have those updated at the time)

Magic won 3 zip

[matjpacker]

So many catch up games for the bulk of both divisions. I cannot see how they can be caught up before the end of June, especially with it looking like we are getting more rain coming in this weekend.

[sapdad]

Div 1:

1. NCF (87Pts) ? 45MP
2. Edgeworth (67Pts) ? 34MP
3. Olympic (64Pts) ? 32MP
4. Magic (63Pts) ? 33MP
5. Jaffas (62Pts) ? 32MP
6. Valentine (51Pts) ? 33MP
7. Maitland (46Pts) ? 38MP
8. Lake Macquarie (42Pts) ? 31MP
9. Weston (39Pts) ? 32MP
10. Mid Coast (22Pts) ? 27MP
11. New Lambton (15Pts) ? 25MP
12. Cooks Hill (12Pts) ? 35MP

Losers of club based relegation would be:
Weston U14s currently in 7th
Weston U15s currently in 2nd
Weston U18s currently 8th

Mid Coast U16s currently 3rd

Thanks for the update.From what I have seen this year it wouldnt surprise if Maitland or Weston are the 4th team down and Belswans takes the final spot to stay in Div 2.Across the board that would be a pretty fair 2nd half of the season.From memory last year a couple of the hard done by teams that ended up in Div 2 although being good in Div 1 didnt even make their grand finals.Some strong results from Adamstown in the last few weeks might make it very interesting if they scrape in by 3 points or less.

[sapdad]

So many catch up games for the bulk of both divisions. I cannot see how they can be caught up before the end of June, especially with it looking like we are getting more rain coming in this weekend.

Does anyone know if there are spare weekends set aside to play the last of the final catchups before switching into 3 divisions?I havent seen any set date that the 2nd half starts.As you said,lots of mid week games which is not only tough on players but referee availability as well.

[WOW2.0]

From memory last year a couple of the hard done by teams that ended up in Div 2 although being good in Div 1 didnt even make their grand finals.

I don't recall who was in the GFs last year TBF (so may, may not have)

From what I did see, from being in a club that was relegated, it's almost as if every bit of motivation and drive out of the 'high' performing team just evaporates after mid season relegation. (politics and the blame game starts to rear it's head too...even before the split)

It would really would be better, fairer and more legitimate if it was done via team, and not club championship. (CC just protects bigger clubs, and does not ensure tough games for anyone really.)

Even so, it would be better to have the entire season played out in the division you qualified for...so,

1) You're not paying tier 1 fees for 2nd div football (or tier 2 fees for tier 3)
2) Everyone knows what they are signing up for
3) Let's you reverse some of the 'unlucky' results you might have had, and to overcome a "slow start"
4) The chance to properly measure progress through the year

[Hunter403]

It would really would be better, fairer and more legitimate if it was done via team, and not club championship. (CC just protects bigger clubs, and does not ensure tough games for anyone really.)

Even so, it would be better to have the entire season played out in the division you qualified for...so,

1) You're not paying tier 1 fees for 2nd div football (or tier 2 fees for tier 3)
2) Everyone knows what they are signing up for
3) Let's you reverse some of the 'unlucky' results you might have had, and to overcome a "slow start"
4) The chance to properly measure progress through the year

A couple of things here.
I agree that team by team would be better, but the logistics would be very difficult. Some teams could feasibly never (or rarely) get a home game and the opportunity to play up younger players could be lost as age groups play at different grounds.

There are no tier 1,2 or 3 fees. Comp fees etc are the same for every club. There may be some variance in ground charges, or power bills etc, but the main reason why your tier one club is more expensive is that the extra money goes into non PYL activities. Every club provides similar clothing packages, training equipment, refereeing costs are the same etc, etc. The fact that some PYL clubs charge less than $1,000 and other over $2,000 comes down simply to the money being directed into non PYL areas. All fees should be published by NNSWF, but they are unwilling to do so.

Personally, like WOW, I'd like to see it team by team. I'd also like to see the three groups being the whole season based on the previous year's table. These first 11 games can become nothing but trial games for the clubs going into groups 2 and 3 once it is established which clubs will be which groups. Their points don't carry forward. Last year, those going into group 3 were known after about 5 games. The part of the season that "counts" as far as the players are concerned is the last round which is only 1 round. Why not play in groups A,B and C all season, play 3 rounds with finals, and promotion to the top 2/3 or 4 and relegation to the bottom 2/3 or 4. All games have meaning, all of season effort is rewarded and clubs that want it, can seek promotion.

[Trigger]

Jaffas youth struggling since they've played some higher clubs.

The Hartley effect has worn off and some teams with good players are playing some pathetic football.

Routed by Magic and Edgeworth in last 2 weeks. They go ok v Weston but im calling them on the downhill.

[ForeverRed]

Jaffas youth struggling since they've played some higher clubs.

The Hartley effect has worn off and some teams with good players are playing some pathetic football.

Routed by Magic and Edgeworth in last 2 weeks. They go ok v Weston but im calling them on the downhill.
Wow, its kids football remember, parents trying to be relevant amaze me

[WOW2.0]

Just to clarify for Hunter

"There are no tier 1,2 or 3 fees. Comp fees etc are the same for every club."

I didn't mean the FFA, NNSW fees with my comment, I meant what the clubs are charging...i.e. paying $1800-2000 at the start of the year, assuming you are getting Tier 1, then playing half the season in Tier 2 when those clubs are charging half the price or less

Most parents wouldn't be looking at this fee as going to other items at a club, but as covering a certain level of football

[sapdad]

The way the tiers are going to work out for the 2nd half of the season there is literally one club across the whole program that could be considered a surprise.If parents expected,or were sold on a different outcome for the other 21 clubs then thats on them.I am genuinely shocked there are that many people that are against the new system where it is only in its second year.Lets at least give it 5-10 years can we?

[Hunter403]

Most parents wouldn't be looking at this fee as going to other items at a club, but as covering a certain level of football

And that's the koolaid they swallow. There are good and bad coaches at each level. I've seen some great coaches in lower levels working their butts off improving kids and doing as much or more than those coaching at the top.
I'd argue that overall, there is sweet f a difference between what a kid at a group a club gets over a kid at group c in terms of effort, commitment and coaching knowledge. Great PR work and the parental dream that their kid will play first grade NPL if they play their youth football at that club.

Tell 'em they're dreamin'

[straightred88]

And that's the koolaid they swallow. There are good and bad coaches at each level. I've seen some great coaches in lower levels working their butts off improving kids and doing as much or more than those coaching at the top.
I'd argue that overall, there is sweet f a difference between what a kid at a group a club gets over a kid at group c in terms of effort, commitment and coaching knowledge. Great PR work and the parental dream that their kid will play first grade NPL if they play their youth football at that club.

Tell 'em they're dreamin'

100% correct

[KITZ]

And that's the koolaid they swallow. There are good and bad coaches at each level. I've seen some great coaches in lower levels working their butts off improving kids and doing as much or more than those coaching at the top.
I'd argue that overall, there is sweet f a difference between what a kid at a group a club gets over a kid at group c in terms of effort, commitment and coaching knowledge. Great PR work and the parental dream that their kid will play first grade NPL if they play their youth football at that club.

Tell 'em they're dreamin'

Having done both and played in Sydney it can be vastly different. You also have to deal with the attitudes of the other young people your kid is playing with, and that commitment varies wildly which does impact both games and training. It doesn't matter how hard you train if the team you are with can't string together three passes in a row at training under pressure from team mates who aren't out to try and take your head off like I've seen at some youth games lately.

Have a chat with a player that's been at the bottom of NPL in Newcastle, to the top, then to Sydney and then been overseas with players who play in NPL (div 1) in Sydney and then again against those players in Europe who are being paid to play under 17s football - yes they are paid to go to those tournaments we pay to send kids to. The ball speed and movement from the bottom of NPL in Newcastle to the better players in Sydney to those in Europe is a solar system apart, and failing to acknowledge that does nothing to improve the game in Newcastle.

[jessepinkman]

Having done both and played in Sydney it can be vastly different. You also have to deal with the attitudes of the other young people your kid is playing with, and that commitment varies wildly which does impact both games and training. It doesn't matter how hard you train if the team you are with can't string together three passes in a row at training under pressure from team mates who aren't out to try and take your head off like I've seen at some youth games lately.

Have a chat with a player that's been at the bottom of NPL in Newcastle, to the top, then to Sydney and then been overseas with players who play in NPL (div 1) in Sydney and then again against those players in Europe who are being paid to play under 17s football - yes they are paid to go to those tournaments we pay to send kids to. The ball speed and movement from the bottom of NPL in Newcastle to the better players in Sydney to those in Europe is a solar system apart, and failing to acknowledge that does nothing to improve the game in Newcastle.

100%. Most parents in newy are delusional about where their kid is at.

[sapdad]

I am genuinely surprised by many of the posts on this thread but this recent trend of there somehow being a overwhelming opinion that if your kid is playing NPL youth then the next step is the EPL is silly.I know my 10 years pales in comparison to some on here but in that whole time across several roles in several NPL and NL1 clubs that attitude just doesnt exist.The expectation had always been that the best kids in the 'lower' teams would fancy themselves worthy of a trial at the 'higher' clubs,and that the very best would end up in spots like TSP and Jets youth and after 10 years of being in the very top % of players they may make local seniors.Ive definitely seen more of a promise of kids playing seniors in NL1 but to be fair they seem to provide those opportunities.Kids just want to play and do their best,parents want the best for their kids.If one or two in amongst the hundreds are over the top then welcome to every other occupation and sport in life.Im more of the opinion that theres quite a few contributors on here who arent actually involved in the current NPL youth set up and are just projecting a bit based on their own perception.Again,Ive only been around for 10 years and maybe things were bad back in their day,but todays set up just isnt like that.Besides,Ive spoken before about the worst parents out there are the ones abusing refs who dont even know the rules so why anyone listening to them about a kids talent level has rocks in their heads anyway.Another point on referees,my oldest always says the worst spectators hes ever had have been community kids,then JDL.NPL youth for him is way more enjoyable.Lets just let the kids play and do their best ok.

[WOW2.0]

Update...more teams got games in than I thought


Div1

1. NCF ? 102Pts (50MP)
2. Edgeworth ? 73Pts (37MP)
3. Olympic ? 70Pts (36MP)
4. Jaffas ? 68Pts (37MP)
5. Magic ? 66Pts (35MP)
6. Maitland ? 58Pts (46MP)
7. Valentine ? 57Pts (38MP)
8. Lake Mac ? 54Pts (35MP)
9. Weston ? 39Pts (36MP)
10. Mid Coast ? 25Pts (33MP)
11. New Lambton ? 21Pts (27MP)
12. Cooks Hill ? 12Pts (36MP)

Northern seems to have reversed one result in U15s from the last update (which I'll look into later)

[finzee]

I am genuinely surprised by many of the posts on this thread but this recent trend of there somehow being a overwhelming opinion that if your kid is playing NPL youth then the next step is the EPL is silly.I know my 10 years pales in comparison to some on here but in that whole time across several roles in several NPL and NL1 clubs that attitude just doesnt exist.The expectation had always been that the best kids in the 'lower' teams would fancy themselves worthy of a trial at the 'higher' clubs,and that the very best would end up in spots like TSP and Jets youth and after 10 years of being in the very top % of players they may make local seniors.Ive definitely seen more of a promise of kids playing seniors in NL1 but to be fair they seem to provide those opportunities.Kids just want to play and do their best,parents want the best for their kids.If one or two in amongst the hundreds are over the top then welcome to every other occupation and sport in life.Im more of the opinion that theres quite a few contributors on here who arent actually involved in the current NPL youth set up and are just projecting a bit based on their own perception.Again,Ive only been around for 10 years and maybe things were bad back in their day,but todays set up just isnt like that.Besides,Ive spoken before about the worst parents out there are the ones abusing refs who dont even know the rules so why anyone listening to them about a kids talent level has rocks in their heads anyway.Another point on referees,my oldest always says the worst spectators hes ever had have been community kids,then JDL.NPL youth for him is way more enjoyable.Lets just let the kids play and do their best ok.

Parents not happy with terrible quality referring isnt the main problem.
Putting kid refs into NPL where they have no idea by NNSW is the problem and must be fixed. Rather have no ref or club senior ref tbh than some that ive seen.

I found that many parents have an inflated image of their players, home bias is normal. I've seen some lads labelled as the best in the comp but i cannot see it.

I'd rather leave the labels out and just let it all unfold and let the kids sort themselves out.

[sapdad]

Parents not happy with terrible quality referring isnt the main problem.
Putting kid refs into NPL where they have no idea by NNSW is the problem and must be fixed. Rather have no ref or club senior ref tbh than some that ive seen.

Yeah,you dont want no refs or club senior,you only have to go watch JDL games where parents and coaches are in charge and its generally a bigger farce and causes more arguments than 'neutral' refs.And everyone can scream at me til they are blue in the face but 95% of the crowd at a local game dont have the faintest clue on the rules or how they are supposed to be interpreted.Its our endless debate on here and I dont disagree with refs being put in too early.But until we get a good crop spending 3-4 years at that level without dropping out its going to continue the same cycle.Again I can only speak from my kids experience but I think the standard is a lot better than people want to admit.Maybe I can be the first parent on here who posts that not only are his kids the greatest players ever,but they are the greatest referees ever too.Thats some major chest beating haha.For the record though I dont think that!!!

[finzee]

So that the end of Rd 1 for PLY

Only a heap of catchup games to go before they go into the 3 divs. Wonder if theyre already sorted?

[WOW2.0]

(almost time for relegation - current standings...55MP is 1st half season completion (Div1)

Div 1
1. NCF 112Pts ? (55MP)
2. Olympic 91Pts ? (48MP)
3. Edgeworth 88Pts ? (45MP)
4. Magic 79Pts ? (40MP)
5. Jaffas 76Pts ? (45MP)
6. Maitland 67Pts ? (53MP)
7. Lake Macquarie 61Pts ? (40MP)
8. Valentine 57Pts ? (40MP)
9. Weston 45Pts ? (43MP)
10. New Lambton 33Pts ? (34MP)
11. Mid Coast 31Pts ? (38MP)
12. Cooks Hill 16Pts ? (43MP)


Div 2
1. Charlestown 90Pts ? (38MP)
2. South Cardiff 84Pts ? (41MP)
3. Rosebuds 69Pts ? (34MP)
4. NIAS 65Pts ? (32MP)
5. Belswans 64Pts ? (35MP)
6. West Wallsend 60Pts ? (38MP)
7. Kahibah 51Pts ? (38MP)
8. Cessnock 37Pts ? (38MP)
9. Thornton 28Pts ? (40MP)
10. Singleton 18Pts ? (34MP)
11. Toronto 18Pts ? (38MP)
12. VACANT

I don?t think they have captured all the games from NIAS Vs Charlestown

[WOW2.0]

Nearly there - (a long one apologies)

1. NCF ~ 112Pts (55MP)
2. Edgeworth ~ 94Pts (50MP)
3. Olympic ~ 91Pts (48MP)
4. Magic ~ 89Pts (45MP)
5. Jaffas ~ 76Pts (45MP)
6. Lake Macquarie ~ 76Pts (45MP)
7. Maitland ~ 67Pts (53MP)
8. Valentine ~ 66 Pts (45MP)
9. Weston ~ 45Pts (43MP)
10. New Lambton ~ 37Pts (44MP)
11. Mid Coast ~ 31Pts (38MP)
12. Cooks Hill ~ 16Pts (43MP)


The big surprise packet is Lake Macquarie, separated from Jaffas only by Goal Difference +36 Vs +12
I think the other surprise is Maitland seems to not be quite as strong this year, having only 2 matches left to go before the relegation happens, they are likely to finish in the final safe spot.

Bottom 4 have a huge task to save themselves now, but still possible for all but Cooks Hill. A shame for few high flying teams in those 4.

Goal difference by club is also interesting to look at:

1. Magic +88
2. NCF +70
3. Edgeworth +65
4. Olympic +63
5. Jaffas +36
6. Lake Macquarie +12
7. Maitland +5
8. Valentine -2
9. Weston -50
10. Mid Coast -74
11. New Lambton -79
12. Cooks Hill -129

I think there's a good case that the league structure should be 3 divisions of 8. (The Top) 8 teams/club play each other 3 times, with Promotion/Relegation at season?s end 1/2 up:1/2 down

This would achieve the aim of tighter games with a higher standard (which is the aim of pro/rel).

Help to consolidate the high performing groups into the appropriate level so we don?t end up with good teams being relegated based on club championship results mid season.

Save some confidence of kids getting smacked playing in an inappropriate level for how the club is performing; and importantly allows a team to be built to play a certain grade of football for the entire year (I?m sure Cooks Hill found it very hard last year to attract players, with parents realising how tough a season it would turn out to be, having only just qualified for reintegration into tier 1 during phase2)

(Would also help Northern create a schedule without having to recalculate a draw mid-season and the delays it brings about).

(N.B. tables above, I?ve manually added the Edgeworth V Valentine U14s result from yesterday as it hasn't been updated, noting it was a 1-1 draw)

[Addios]

Nearly there - (a long one apologies)

1. NCF ~ 112Pts (55MP)
2. Edgeworth ~ 94Pts (50MP)
3. Olympic ~ 91Pts (48MP)
4. Magic ~ 89Pts (45MP)
5. Jaffas ~ 76Pts (45MP)
6. Lake Macquarie ~ 76Pts (45MP)
7. Maitland ~ 67Pts (53MP)
8. Valentine ~ 66 Pts (45MP)
9. Weston ~ 45Pts (43MP)
10. New Lambton ~ 37Pts (44MP)
11. Mid Coast ~ 31Pts (38MP)
12. Cooks Hill ~ 16Pts (43MP)

The big surprise packet is Lake Macquarie, separated from Jaffas only by Goal Difference +36 Vs +12
I think the other surprise is Maitland seems to not be quite as strong this year, having only 2 matches left to go before the relegation happens, they are likely to finish in the final safe spot.

Top 8 basically set.

No surprise with Jaffas youth falling off. They have some top players in all grades but too many pretender coaches thinking theyre experts but not much idea since H left.

[sapdad]

A shame for few high flying teams in those 4.

Of the 20 teams in the bottom 4 clubs only 2 of them are in the top 4 of their age group and they are both 4th.Hardly 'high flying'.Youth football should be all about development over chest beating and tin trophies.Widening the pool is the only way to improve the overall talent level its not even a debate.

[KITZ]

Of the 20 teams in the bottom 4 clubs only 2 of them are in the top 4 of their age group and they are both 4th.Hardly 'high flying'.Youth football should be all about development over chest beating and tin trophies.Widening the pool is the only way to improve the overall talent level its not even a debate.

widening the pool does not increase the amount of talent in an area. You only have to look at the girls competition to see that and then the step down in community there is chalk and cheese, the game is so much less physical it's almost not even the same sport in the youth age groups.

When your kid comes out of the other side of this system, you'll wonder if there is was any point in even trying to fix it; and and then you just get on with your life and watch all the parents from 9s to 13s yell and rant at each other all over again and because you no longer have any buy in to it you'll either find it incredibly funny, or sad.

[WOW2.0]

?High flying? as in top 8 and outperforming the rest of their club.
Noting for each ?loser?, there is a ?beneficiary? team whose been saved?
The widest of those gaps is one of the below 4th places (with the lowest number of completed games) loses their place in favour of 11th place.

To me, these teams have justified a position in tier 1 for the 2nd phase above the ?beneficiary? teams.
Their relegation only damages the clubs they belong to as they will find it hard to maintain those teams and build success through them.

Obviously pre-rel by team is the ideal standard?but without that, at least playing out a full season is the next best option, and then kids can find the clubs at the level they want to play at the following season (if they can). Would also give clubs to turn their season around that they really don?t have in the current format (can imagine how demotivated some teams are, knowing club wide they have been ?let down?.

If the aim of pro/rel is to promote a high standard of competitive games appropriately sized tiers?distribution of player and coaching talent then surely it?s the best way forward to achieve that goal


Current ?Losers? list (6 teams Div 1, Div 2->3 probably a similar number haven?t checked yet)
U14s
Loser:
New Lambton 8th

U15s
Loser: Weston 4th

U16s
Loser(s):
Midcoast 4th
New Lambton 7th
Weston 8th

U18s
Loser New Lambton 5th


ALSO: absolutely it should still be about development. Part of that development is found within the standard of competition the kids find themselves in, tough games at the appropriate level this will help drive up the standards even more, and proper pro/rel will help with a pathway for those kids, with known boundaries when you agree to join a club.
Also, when you say to ?widen the pool?, why not just have 1 tier with (currently) 23 teams?that?s the widest pool we can have, I can't see how that helps anyone

[WOW2.0]

They have some top players in all grades but too many pretender coaches thinking theyre experts but not much idea since H left.

Richard once told me, he doesn't have the best coaches, when you see the level of micromanagement, it's little wonder why.

No one should set themselves up as the indispensible man...we're all just little cogs in the grand scheme of things

For context
Jaffas current positions:
13s - 6th
14s - 7th
15s - 6th
16s - 3rd
18s - 7th

...I don't know where they were last year or the year prior (when Richard was there)...other than last year those 14s were in the GF.

[Jim]

When your kid comes out of the other side of this system, you'll wonder if there is was any point in even trying to fix it; and and then you just get on with your life and watch all the parents from 9s to 13s yell and rant at each other all over again and because you no longer have any buy in to it you'll either find it incredibly funny, or sad.

Pretty much. My daughter had a cracking run then said this game sucks at 15. I wish I had of paid a bit more attention though. I didnt realise there was a massive pathway for them.

Also congrats to the 14s Edgys coaches who lost their sh*t over another physical but quality tackle. One goose getting a red card. Edgy are the new Magic.

[Retired01]

Of the 20 teams in the bottom 4 clubs only 2 of them are in the top 4 of their age group and they are both 4th.Hardly 'high flying'.Youth football should be all about development over chest beating and tin trophies.Widening the pool is the only way to improve the overall talent level its not even a debate.

Id like to understand how widening the pool is the way to improve as it dilutes the talent across the clubs as the Jets and TSP exist for a reason so that a group of kids get to play at an elevated level every week and also train with that group. As we are well aware alot of the Jets kids arent the most talented but you can visibly see the 4 sessions per week plus games has lifted their ability. You could bring in any of the top 20 players from the NPL and over time with the elevated training schedule and constant physicality the kids grow.

[sapdad]

Id like to understand how widening the pool is the way to improve as it dilutes the talent across the clubs as the Jets and TSP exist for a reason so that a group of kids get to play at an elevated level every week and also train with that group. As we are well aware alot of the Jets kids arent the most talented but you can visibly see the 4 sessions per week plus games has lifted their ability. You could bring in any of the top 20 players from the NPL and over time with the elevated training schedule and constant physicality the kids grow.

I posted some explanations yesterday but deleted them after realising we have gone through this 1000 times before and it always comes back to the same place.Anyway,I'll try one more time.You just explained it yourself.The Jets draw from the TSP,the TSP draws from the top clubs,the top clubs draw from the lower clubs,the lower clubs draw from community and so on.The more kids have access to good community teams with good coaching the better that level gets,the better that level gets the better kids are coming into 3rd tier NPL,the better the 2nd and 3rd tier are the better the top teams get when they sign players,the better the top teams are in NPL the better quality of TSP and eventually the Jets.You are all looking at it from a 1 season sample.My whole point is blending the levels as often as possible (mid season mix up/knockout cup/plate) the more often kids 'down the bottom' play against kids further up the chain the better the long term overall group.This is why Japan has a 50 year plan,this is why France decided to raid African colonies for talent.Putting up roadblocks to development in the name of continually protecting the top never grows the overall level.Someone else mentioned the womens game yesterday and its also a great example of getting more kids into better environments and watching the whole game grow at the highest level.When my oldest started JDL there were 3 zone girls teams.The Jets drew from there.Now,are the Jets women and girls youth better because clubs have great girl specific JDL programs?The answer is yes.But if we just left it at 3 zone teams then community then we dont get the improvement.Hence,a wider pool of talent has eventually improved the highest level.Thats my point.

[sapdad]

Widening the pool of talent also applied to JDL being run at more clubs now.If clubs like New Lambton,Cooks Hill,South Cardiff,Stags etc were not included (because 'good kids' can just go play for Magic/Edgy etc) then there would be a lot of players missing from todays tier one clubs, TSP and Jets.If you dont believe me then go ask the Jets and TSP kids where they started their youth football journey.You may be shocked that they started further down the ladder but because there was a path, and there were enough opportunities then they got their shot.Again,thats my point.

[Retired01]

Widening the pool of talent also applied to JDL being run at more clubs now.If clubs like New Lambton,Cooks Hill,South Cardiff,Stags etc were not included (because 'good kids' can just go play for Magic/Edgy etc) then there would be a lot of players missing from todays tier one clubs, TSP and Jets.If you dont believe me then go ask the Jets and TSP kids where they started their youth football journey.You may be shocked that they started further down the ladder but because there was a path, and there were enough opportunities then they got their shot.Again,thats my point.

So you arent actually increasing the size of the pool you are just defining a heirachy system and want to get better coaches, people and scouts to bring them through the levels. Your wording led me to believe you wanted the top tiers to include more teams which in my opinion dilutes the talent and therefore the quality and learning opportunities for the top kids.

[sapdad]

So you arent actually increasing the size of the pool you are just defining a heirachy system and want to get better coaches, people and scouts to bring them through the levels. Your wording led me to believe you wanted the top tiers to include more teams which in my opinion dilutes the talent and therefore the quality and learning opportunities for the top kids.

Sort of,Im advocating for more spots at the bottom and a more accessible pathway to the top in the hope that long term there is enough talent to warrant more teams at the highest level.I believe the older system closed off those opportunities where as merging the groups and opening up knockout cups provides those opportunites.So overall the pool becomes bigger.

[sapdad]

Heres a good example of the progress some clubs are making,Stags are back in youth for the first time in a while.The did a great job to fill 5 teams,from my understanding the 13s and 14s have a fair few of their own JDL kids,where as the other grades were a mix of community and trialists.Here are there results going into the last round.
18's - 0 wins/zero draws.
16's - 0 wins/zero draws.
15's - 0 wins/zero draws.
14's - 2 wins/3 draws.
13's - 4 wins/zero draws.
To me that says that Toronto having a JDL program has given their youth a fair shot entering 13's.Next year the 18's will drop off and hopefully another good JDL crop comes through and get even better results.If Toronto didnt have JDL (like they didnt for the early years) would their youth now be getting the results? Would those kids be even playing?Who knows.But by providing the opportunities they have developed some talent and its not a dumb notion that within a short space of time Toronto could be back to being one of the premier youth programs.That can only be a good thing.And before anyone says it,their surrounding areas (edgeworth/lakes/central coast united) are all going great guns so its not as if they have stolen anyone elses players to build.

[WOW2.0]

That is great, but what I suggested wouldn't have anything change in that regard...I never suggested to change or remove JDL...just that the next phase, the premier Boys League, should have appropriate tiering and for an entire season...this will help ambitious clubs to build upon success at the appropriate level they are currently at.

It is worth remembering too, people talk a lot about their not being enough talented kids. Perhaps worse, the lack of quality coaches to meet the needs of clubs and kids...how many quality coaches disappear each year after their kid is done, etc...we should try to keep more of those people involved wherever we can, IMO :)

[finzee]

That is great, but what I suggested wouldn't have anything change in that regard...I never suggested to change or remove JDL...just that the next phase, the premier Boys League, should have appropriate tiering and for an entire season...this will help ambitious clubs to build upon success at the appropriate level they are currently at.

It is worth remembering too, people talk a lot about their not being enough talented kids. Perhaps worse, the lack of quality coaches to meet the needs of clubs and kids...how many quality coaches disappear each year after their kid is done, etc...we should try to keep more of those people involved wherever we can, IMO :)

Some good coaches are not wanted because they arent in the "inner circle" of the club. two way sword at times. Ive seen some awful coaches retained at NPL level even now. Easier to walk away and let the train crash happen.

[Cunning stunts]

Decoupling - looks like Weston, Midcoast, Cooks hill and New Lambton will drop out.

Hearing players have already jumped ship from one club going down. What's everyone thoughts on how this i benefiting the youth development?

[sapdad]

So it looks like the youth divisions are set for the 2nd phase.There looks like only 1 change from last year which is Lakes staying in Div 1 and Weston going to Div 2.It will be interesting to see if any different Div 2 clubs end up going up.I think there will definitely be 1 maybe 2.

[sapdad]

Hearing players have already jumped ship from one club going down. What's everyone thoughts on how this i benefiting the youth development?

If players are dropping out half way through a season because they feel they deserve to be playing higher then they were always going to leave anyway,relegation is just a convenient excuse.I like the new system.I believe Lakes,Cooks Hill,New Lambton,Bel Swans,South Cardiff,Azzurri and Valo are all better than last year and they are the clubs flirting with going up and down over the past 2 years.I like now that those teams are now playing closer to their level and can improve again in the hope that they continue to improve like Lakes who now look like one of the overall strongest clubs in youth.Looks like the retention/recruiting process is about to get underway as well,good luck to everyone for the 2nd half of the year lets just all hope for less washouts.

[WOW2.0]

Not really sure that anyone could say Cooks Hill or New Lambton are stronger than they were last year...I think both are much poorer.

Belswans is also a hard case to make. Last year they rompt in tier II before the split, and very nearly made it into tier I (missing out just on the last day)

Pro/Rel is good, makes it very interesting, but it really should be for an entire season.

Three tiers of 8, play each other 3 times...pro/rel at the end of the year (preferably by team, not club championship)...this would be the ideal model

[sapdad]

Not really sure that anyone could say Cooks Hill or New Lambton are stronger than they were last year...I think both are much poorer.

Belswans is also a hard case to make. Last year they rompt in tier II before the split, and very nearly made it into tier I (missing out just on the last day)


Yeah Im not going over your 2nd point again.Happy to disagree.Maybe wait and see how Cooks Hill and NL go for the rest of the year compared to this stage last year and then we can discuss whether their exposure to tier one helped or not.Belswans are better but so are the clubs around them so its made it harder for them to romp it in.Im not just dealing in results.

[WOW2.0]

Yeah Im not going over your 2nd point again.Happy to disagree.Maybe wait and see how Cooks Hill and NL go for the rest of the year compared to this stage last year and then we can discuss whether their exposure to tier one helped or not.Belswans are better but so are the clubs around them so its made it harder for them to romp it in.Im not just dealing in results.
What other valid measurement can you offer?

We played in the 2nd division last year, after being relegated in the 2nd phase, those teams I named are not as good as they were last year...it's no criticism, it's just the way it is

I really don't think you understand the 3 tiers, the points you made previously were not contrary to the system it is today except, the teams play an entire season...it's not closed off at all as you seem to think

[sapdad]

I really don't think you understand the 3 tiers, the points you made previously were not contrary to the system it is today except, the teams play an entire season...it's not closed off at all as you seem to think

No,Im quite clear on how it works and support it.You would rather it be different.We disagree,thats all it is.

[GO AWAY]

Heres a good example of the progress some clubs are making,Stags are back in youth for the first time in a while.The did a great job to fill 5 teams,from my understanding the 13s and 14s have a fair few of their own JDL kids,where as the other grades were a mix of community and trialists.Here are there results going into the last round.
18's - 0 wins/zero draws.
16's - 0 wins/zero draws.
15's - 0 wins/zero draws.
14's - 2 wins/3 draws.
13's - 4 wins/zero draws.
To me that says that Toronto having a JDL program has given their youth a fair shot entering 13's.Next year the 18's will drop off and hopefully another good JDL crop comes through and get even better results.If Toronto didnt have JDL (like they didnt for the early years) would their youth now be getting the results? Would those kids be even playing?Who knows.But by providing the opportunities they have developed some talent and its not a dumb notion that within a short space of time Toronto could be back to being one of the premier youth programs.That can only be a good thing.And before anyone says it,their surrounding areas (edgeworth/lakes/central coast united) are all going great guns so its not as if they have stolen anyone elses players to build.

Stags 14s won their fifth on the trot ( I think ) last night. Augurs well for 13-14-15 in 2025. Hopefully we can pull a good 16-18 squad together

[sapdad]

Stags 14s won their fifth on the trot ( I think ) last night. Augurs well for 13-14-15 in 2025. Hopefully we can pull a good 16-18 squad together

Really happy to hear that.Well done to everyone out there they certainly seem on the right path.

[Meggsy]

Really happy to hear that.Well done to everyone out there they certainly seem on the right path.

There's also a couple of really talented Tronno boys putting their hand up for the next intake of Jets

[The Hacker]

What happened between Hartley and Magic parting ways already

[Eastwest]

What happened between Hartley and Magic parting ways already

egos and chest beating defeating all positive outcomes. couple of magic coaches need to go. They know who they are.

[Eastwest]

If players are dropping out half way through a season because they feel they deserve to be playing higher

Is this lead by the players or parents? I find it hard to believe that there'd be hardly anyone doing this. The comps arent elite anyway. Just play and stop pretending you're special.

You'd probably have more fun winning div 2 & 3 than trying to be a hero in div 1

[Reds Forever]

egos and chest beating defeating all positive outcomes. couple of magic coaches need to go. They know who they are.

Agree. Heard a number of coaches were asking parents to sign petitions to oust him.

When was last time a TD lasted the whole year there?

[Cunning stunts]

So what date do we think the new draw will be released? Assuming the phase 2 comp should start this weekend

[Reds Forever]

Our club has advised us it's released tomorrow and starts this weekend.

[sapdad]

Our club has advised us it's released tomorrow and starts this weekend.

We have been told the same.It brings back memories of the old JDL days finding out fixtures the week before the season started.A good effort from everyone getting all the catchups played (barring 1 matchday I think).Lets all hope for some better weather for the next few months.

[Gman]

Did NIAS or Adamstown secure the last spot in Div B ?

[Game_over]

Adamstown on PPG

[Hunter403]

Adamstown on PPG
Neither should be in Group B as both failed to field teams in an age group.

[Gman]

Adamstown on PPG

Thanks !

[The Hacker]

Neither should be in Group B as both failed to field teams in an age group.

If those clubs can get more points with 4 teams than other clubs with 5 teams that suggests the 4 teams at Adamstown/NIAS are 4 strong teams and will compete strongly. Isn?t that the reason for the split so the teams are all relatively ?even?

[sapdad]

If those clubs can get more points with 4 teams than other clubs with 5 teams that suggests the 4 teams at Adamstown/NIAS are 4 strong teams and will compete strongly. Isn?t that the reason for the split so the teams are all relatively ?even?
Yes its a fair point but I dont believe its a good look.Im sure NNSW said one year of a missing team is ok,but consecutive years will be punished.I dont mind that as a policy.

[The Hacker]

Yes its a fair point but I dont believe its a good look.Im sure NNSW said one year of a missing team is ok,but consecutive years will be punished.I dont mind that as a policy.

I agree with the policy. But also with 4 teams I can?t imagine they will finish in the top 4 in Div 2

[Captain_Carl]

NIAS is given its own special rules by NNSWF because they have gone multiple years missing an age group(s) without consequence. Get rid of them I say.

[Alton]

NIAS is given its own special rules by NNSWF because they have gone multiple years missing an age group(s) without consequence. Get rid of them I say.

100% plus any other club that doesn?t fill quota of teams

[Cunning stunts]

Draws are up.

It looks like they have reset the ladders, don't believe this happen last year?

[WOW2.0]

Div 1 big break down with the split

1. NCF ~ 112Pts (GD +70)
2. Magic ~ 105Pts (GD +103)
3. Edgeworth ~ 103Pts (GD +66)
4. Jaffas ~ 101Pts (GD +52)
5. Olympic ~ 94Pts (GD +64)
6. Lake Macquarie ~ 93Pts (GD +21)
7. Valentine ~ 87Pts (GD +16)
8. Maitland ~ 70Pts (GD +6)
RELEGATED
9. Mid Coast ~ 49Pts (GD -90)
10. Weston ~ 48Pts (GD -77)
11. New Lambton ~ 43Pts (GD -82)
12. Cooks Hill ~ 28Pts (GD -146)

A couple of teams have some catchup games

Olympic and New Lambton have an entire round against each other
And Valentine and Weston have a catchup in 18s

No idea how these will be caught up in a fair manner, i.e. what is in those games for the relegated teams; how will this effect placings at the end of the season for tier 1 (who don?t reset their points), etc

Of those relegates out of top 8 positions
U13: Mid Coast 8th
U14: New Lambton 8th separated to 7th on GD
U15: Weston 7th
U16: Mid Coast 4th separated to 3rd on GD and Weston 7th
U18: New Lambton 8th separated to 7th on GD

Of the safe teams, the luckiest safe team sits in last place with 1 win and 2 draws

Team with the best Goals For: Magic U13s (51)
Team with the Lowest GA: NCF U18s (5)

Highest win ratio:
(Team) Lake Macquarie U13s ~ 91% (Olympic 14s was 90% with an unplayed game)
(Club) NCF ~ 62%


Top 4 each age group: (if finals were held today)
13s ~ Lakes, Magic, Jaffas, NCF
14s ~ Olympic, Valo, Edgeworth, NCF
15s ~ Olympic, Jaffas, Magic, Valentine
16s ~ NCF, Magic, Jaffas, Mid Coast
18s ~ Edgeworth, NCF, Olympic, Jaffas

[WOW2.0]

Draws are up.

It looks like they have reset the ladders, don't believe this happen last year?

Div 2 and 3 reset last year, Div 1 was continuous...has Div 1 been reset also?

[Cunning stunts]

Yep looks like Div 1 reset unless it just hasn't populated yet.

[ForeverRed]

Where can I see division 1 draw

[Bremsstrahlung]

Stats



bloody hell, Jeterpool must be at home either quaking in his boots or :fap:


In all seriousness, appreciate the effort and time it takes to put these things together. Takes 2 minutes to read, but far longer to produce for the enjoyment of the foz.

[The Hacker]

Div 1 big break down with the split

1. NCF ~ 112Pts (GD +70)
2. Magic ~ 105Pts (GD +103)
3. Edgeworth ~ 103Pts (GD +66)
4. Jaffas ~ 101Pts (GD +52)
5. Olympic ~ 94Pts (GD +64)
6. Lake Macquarie ~ 93Pts (GD +21)
7. Valentine ~ 87Pts (GD +16)
8. Maitland ~ 70Pts (GD +6)
RELEGATED
9. Mid Coast ~ 49Pts (GD -90)
10. Weston ~ 48Pts (GD -77)
11. New Lambton ~ 43Pts (GD -82)
12. Cooks Hill ~ 28Pts (GD -146)

A couple of teams have some catchup games

Olympic and New Lambton have an entire round against each other
And Valentine and Weston have a catchup in 18s

No idea how these will be caught up in a fair manner, i.e. what is in those games for the relegated teams; how will this effect placings at the end of the season for tier 1 (who don?t reset their points), etc

Of those relegates out of top 8 positions
U13: Mid Coast 8th
U14: New Lambton 8th separated to 7th on GD
U15: Weston 7th
U16: Mid Coast 4th separated to 3rd on GD and Weston 7th
U18: New Lambton 8th separated to 7th on GD

Of the safe teams, the luckiest safe team sits in last place with 1 win and 2 draws

Team with the best Goals For: Magic U13s (51)
Team with the Lowest GA: NCF U18s (5)

Highest win ratio:
(Team) Lake Macquarie U13s ~ 91% (Olympic 14s was 90% with an unplayed game)
(Club) NCF ~ 62%


Top 4 each age group: (if finals were held today)
13s ~ Lakes, Magic, Jaffas, NCF
14s ~ Olympic, Valo, Edgeworth, NCF
15s ~ Olympic, Jaffas, Magic, Valentine
16s ~ NCF, Magic, Jaffas, Mid Coast
18s ~ Edgeworth, NCF, Olympic, Jaffas

Super impressive work and been very good for the first half of the year 👍

[sapdad]

Div 2 and 3 reset last year, Div 1 was continuous...has Div 1 been reset also?

We have been told all points and stats will carry over in Div 1 for the 2nd half of the year.They must not have been updated on the table yet but will be.I have been told 2 different outcomes for the unplayed New Lambton v Olympic round from different people who usually know whats going on so I'm not sure what to believe.

[CHAMP]

Weston and Cooks Hill both clubs are spending big dollars on their TD'S, working a treat both have been relegated.

[Hunter403]

Div 1 big break down with the split

1. NCF ~ 112Pts (GD +70)
2. Magic ~ 105Pts (GD +103)
3. Edgeworth ~ 103Pts (GD +66)
4. Jaffas ~ 101Pts (GD +52)
5. Olympic ~ 94Pts (GD +64)
6. Lake Macquarie ~ 93Pts (GD +21)
7. Valentine ~ 87Pts (GD +16)
8. Maitland ~ 70Pts (GD +6)
RELEGATED
9. Mid Coast ~ 49Pts (GD -90)
10. Weston ~ 48Pts (GD -77)
11. New Lambton ~ 43Pts (GD -82)
12. Cooks Hill ~ 28Pts (GD -146)

A couple of teams have some catchup games

Olympic and New Lambton have an entire round against each other
And Valentine and Weston have a catchup in 18s

No idea how these will be caught up in a fair manner, i.e. what is in those games for the relegated teams; how will this effect placings at the end of the season for tier 1 (who don?t reset their points), etc

Of those relegates out of top 8 positions
U13: Mid Coast 8th
U14: New Lambton 8th separated to 7th on GD
U15: Weston 7th
U16: Mid Coast 4th separated to 3rd on GD and Weston 7th
U18: New Lambton 8th separated to 7th on GD

Of the safe teams, the luckiest safe team sits in last place with 1 win and 2 draws

Team with the best Goals For: Magic U13s (51)
Team with the Lowest GA: NCF U18s (5)

Highest win ratio:
(Team) Lake Macquarie U13s ~ 91% (Olympic 14s was 90% with an unplayed game)
(Club) NCF ~ 62%


Top 4 each age group: (if finals were held today)
13s ~ Lakes, Magic, Jaffas, NCF
14s ~ Olympic, Valo, Edgeworth, NCF
15s ~ Olympic, Jaffas, Magic, Valentine
16s ~ NCF, Magic, Jaffas, Mid Coast
18s ~ Edgeworth, NCF, Olympic, Jaffas

Great job. Got stat's on the other half of the comp?

[WOW2.0]

Great job. Got stat's on the other half of the comp?

You mean Tier II? (Or the girls)

(I've kept stats for Tier I, II and Syd Div.1 boys competitions)

I'll prepare a similar report tomorrow for tier II if that's what you mean :)

[Hunter403]

You mean Tier II? (Or the girls)

(I've kept stats for Tier I, II and Syd Div.1 boys competitions)

I'll prepare a similar report tomorrow for tier II if that's what you mean :)

PYL tier 2. Cheers.

[WOW2.0]

PYL tier 2. Cheers.


Div 2

Half season break
1. Charlestown ~ 112Pts (GD +140)
2. South Cardiff ~ 102Pts (GD +96)
3. Belswans ~ 93Pts (GD +81)
4. NIAS ~ 72Pts (GD+65) ? relegated despite
RELEGATED
5. Rosebuds ~ 72Pts (GD +57)
6. Kahibah ~ 70Pts (GD -32)
7. West Wallsend ~ 63Pts (GD +3)
8. Cessnock ~ 61Pts (GD -19)
9. Toronto ~ 33Pts (GD -156)
10. Thornton ~ 32Pts (GD -73)
11. Singleton ~ 20Pts (GD -162)
12. VACANT

Rosebuds missing games against Singleton in 16s & 14s (might explain the NIAS relegation). If the games didn't go ahead, they obviously won't be now.

Of those relegated out of top 4 positions
(4 clubs staying in tier 2)
U13: NIAS 1st
U14: Kahibah 1st
U15: Kahibah 1st
U16: NIAS 4th
U18: West Wallsend 4th

Of the safe teams:
The luckiest team sits in 8th position with 3 wins, 2 draws
(negative GD, and a win ratio of just 30%)

Team with the best Goals For: shared
NIAS U13s & Charlestown U16s
(Both on 50, NIAS with the better goal difference, conceding just 7)

Team with the Lowest GA: Charlestown U15s (4)

Highest win ratio:
(Team) South Cardiff U16s ~ 90%
(Club) Charlestown ~ 72.9%


Top 4 each age group: (if finals were held today/relegation was by team and not club)
13s ~ NIAS, Rosebuds, South Cardiff, Charlestown

14s ~ Kahibah, Charlestown, Rosebuds, Belswans

15s ~ Kahibah, Charlestown, Belswans, South Cardiff

16s ~ South Cardiff, Belswans, Charlestown, NIAS

18s ~ Charlestown, South Cardiff, Belswans, West Wallsend

Which would be fairer, TBH
With 3 teams in first place being relegated

NIAS 13s have the greatest GD in tier II, of any age group (+43)?how does tier III now benefit those kids? To play against teams with a -42 or -58 GD for the rest of the year

How does Kahibah retain and grow for next year? If pro/rel was by team they could build on the successes of those 1st places. Now, their most talented kids will likely look elsewhere?because, despite their team and individual "excellence", they are pushed down by averages.

It would have been right to have let those kids play out the remainder of the year, and earn a trophy they deserve before a reshuffle based on club average

[sapdad]

Rosebuds missing games against Singleton in 16s & 14s (might explain the NIAS relegation). If the games didn't go ahead, they obviously won't be now.


How does Kahibah retain and grow for next year? If pro/rel was by team they could build on the successes of those 1st places. Now, their most talented kids will likely look elsewhere?because, despite their team and individual "excellence", they are pushed down by averages.


I was told that Rosebuds needed to only win the first game (13's) to get their PPG average above NIAS and guarantee promotion.They played the first game,won,got their PPG over NIAS then the rest of the games were called off due to weather.Pretty lucky huh.Anyway,they would have won at least one more game that day but luckily it all worked out for them and they stay up.The bigger issue is that if teams got 3 points for the win against a club that didnt field a team then Kahibah would still be in Div 2 and Rosebuds would be down.It turns out Kahibah were the only club that was punished for Rosebuds and NIAS not fielding teams.

[Hunter403]

.The bigger issue is that if teams got 3 points for the win against a club that didnt field a team then Kahibah would still be in Div 2 and Rosebuds would be down.It turns out Kahibah were the only club that was punished for Rosebuds and NIAS not fielding teams.

This needs addressing by NNSW. The lack of a punishment on the table is no deterrent.

[Taffy]

I was told that Rosebuds needed to only win the first game (13's) to get their PPG average above NIAS and guarantee promotion.They played the first game,won,got their PPG over NIAS then the rest of the games were called off due to weather.Pretty lucky huh.Anyway,they would have won at least one more game that day but luckily it all worked out for them and they stay up.The bigger issue is that if teams got 3 points for the win against a club that didnt field a team then Kahibah would still be in Div 2 and Rosebuds would be down.It turns out Kahibah were the only club that was punished for Rosebuds and NIAS not fielding teams.


PPG still would've come into play, even if we give Kahibah 3 points as Adamstown had a better PPG means they would be going up since all their games had not being played. You say they would've won one more game anyway which is true so that would put them on 75, not only 2 points ahead of Kahibah if they were given the 3 put also further ahead on PPG.

Also Adamstown didn't need to win just one game against Singleton, according to Northern before the weekend their PPG was 1.53 compared to NIAS 1.47 and Kahibah on 1.47 so were ahead of both anyway. It would've made more sense for Adamstown to play no games just to ensure they stay up.


I was told by one Kahibah coach that they knew they weren't going to get in about a month ago and so were just focusing on the second phase now in the bottom tier so much so that they had given teams off from training. Perhaps they could've kept trying to get more wins rather than giving up early on. Northern didn't punish them, they punished themselves by resigning to defeat too soon.

[Taffy]

A couple of teams have some catchup games

Olympic and New Lambton have an entire round against each other
And Valentine and Weston have a catchup in 18s

No idea how these will be caught up in a fair manner, i.e. what is in those games for the relegated teams; how will this effect placings at the end of the season for tier 1 (who don?t reset their points), etc

These will be marked as 0-0 draws and considered as played. Northern won't be using PPG to determine finals placings with Phase 1 games not being played.


If those clubs can get more points with 4 teams than other clubs with 5 teams that suggests the 4 teams at Adamstown/NIAS are 4 strong teams and will compete strongly. Isn?t that the reason for the split so the teams are all relatively ?even?

Yep, if you can't get ahead with an extra game every week do you deserve to be there anyway? The split is meant to make it more like for like and the whole reason for doing it by club is so clubs focus on their full program rather than just caring about one or two really good teams.

[sapdad]

Also Adamstown didn't need to win just one game against Singleton, according to Northern before the weekend their PPG was 1.53 compared to NIAS 1.47 and Kahibah on 1.47 so were ahead of both anyway. It would've made more sense for Adamstown to play no games just to ensure they stay up.


Would they have called all 4 games draws if they were washed out?I assumed because Rosebuds were 3 points behind NIAS and 1 behind Kahibah at the start of the day they needed to be even on points before PPG was factored in.I was told overall points was the only thing they used to determine standings and PPG was only used if clubs were tied.Regardless,we all agree Rosebuds with 4 teams doing better than clubs with 5 is a good achievement.Lets hope they can field full teams next year and like Azzurri bounce straight back.

[Taffy]

Would they have called all 4 games draws if they were washed out?I assumed because Rosebuds were 3 points behind NIAS and 1 behind Kahibah at the start of the day they needed to be even on points before PPG was factored in.I was told overall points was the only thing they used to determine standings and PPG was only used if clubs were tied.Regardless,we all agree Rosebuds with 4 teams doing better than clubs with 5 is a good achievement.Lets hope they can field full teams next year and like Azzurri bounce straight back.

No if they were all washed out it would've been deemed as games not played. As per the rules if not all games are played than PPG is taken into consideration to determine final standings if the team winning the unplayed games would put them above on points. Doesn't matter if they were ahead or behind. PPG is only used if not all games are played and the results over those unplayed games would result in them finishing above, if it does then PPG is taken into account. If all games had been played then if even on points it goes to who got the most points against the team they are tied against. If that is even then it goes to the club with the highest goal difference and then the club with the most goals and then the club with the least cards.

Had Adamstown played those final two games and lost both (very unlikely) then since when Adamstown and NIAS played each other they had 1 win and 1 draw each then it would go to goal difference which would be NIAS going up. It was in Adamstown interests to not even play the U13s since their PPG was already higher.



Lets hope they can field full teams next year and like Azzurri bounce straight back.

If they don't then Adamstown has had their year grace and according to Northern if you don't have 5 youth teams you can't be in NPL, will Northern follow their rules and also relegate Adamstown if they fail to field 5 teams next year.

[sapdad]

As per the rules if not all games are played than PPG is taken into consideration to determine final standings if the team winning the unplayed games would put them above on points. Doesn't matter if they were ahead or behind. PPG is only used if not all games are played and the results over those unplayed games would result in them finishing above, if it does then PPG is taken into account. If all games had been played then if even on points it goes to who got the most points against the team they are tied against. If that is even then it goes to the club with the highest goal difference and then the club with the most goals and then the club with the least cards.

Had Adamstown played those final two games and lost both (very unlikely) then since when Adamstown and NIAS played each other they had 1 win and 1 draw each then it would go to goal difference which would be NIAS going up. It was in Adamstown interests to not even play the U13s since their PPG was already higher.

Haha,clear as mud mate.Thank god I didnt even try and work that out my small brain would have snapped.

[Jim]

Bigger issue is do NO get to play NL? Can be a difference for the Premiership in DIV 1 in some age groups if points are continuing.

[Taffy]

Bigger issue is do NO get to play NL? Can be a difference for the Premiership in DIV 1 in some age groups if points are continuing.

Understand the answer is No it will be classed as a draw. NO should be putting pressure on NNSWF to have them played. I'm sure NL would rather not

[WOW2.0]

Understand the answer is No it will be classed as a draw. NO should be putting pressure on NNSWF to have them played. I'm sure NL would rather not

If pro-rel happaned at the end of the season, not in the middle...there would be plenty of time to catch up these games

Northern also wouldn't have to dick around with a new draw either

[Reds Forever]

Plus parents and kids that start having casual jobs can plan holidays and work availability in advance.

[Taffy]

Plus parents and kids that start having casual jobs can plan holidays and work availability in advance.

Apart from the extension regardless of the draw you know what weekends you're playing anyway, so no reason why holidays still can't be planned.

I do believe though that had we not had to have the extension the draw for this phase would've come out 2 weeks before round 1

[WOW2.0]

You may know there will be a game on X weekend, but you won't know which day...that does make it hard to organise leave for any "long weekend" you may want to take :)

[sapdad]

You may know there will be a game on X weekend, but you won't know which day...that does make it hard to organise leave for any "long weekend" you may want to take :)

Same thing happens in the finals,do you want them abolished just so it doesnt interupt anyones schedule?I know its a hill you are willing to die on,but the current system isnt perfect,neither was the last one,and nor will the next one.We really just need to move on.

[WOW2.0]

Same thing happens in the finals,do you want them abolished just so it doesnt interupt anyones schedule?I know its a hill you are willing to die on,but the current system isnt perfect,neither was the last one,and nor will the next one.We really just need to move on.

Finals affects a period of what, 2 weeks (half the clubs will already know they are not involved)...this redrawing affects half a season and all clubs 🤷

No one is taking about perfection, simply little improvements that can be made

[sapdad]

Just to tidy up something,the tables have been updated with carry over points for Div 1 and the NL v Olympic games have been put down as a draw.

[Taffy]

So has the Weston v Valentine games

[Eastwest]

Reminder, no top team should plan holidays straight after a scheduled GF. We've seen these put back a week more than once.

[WOW2.0]

Does anyone think they will try and fill that vacant 12th spot in Div 2 next year.

To me, CGU would be a good inclusion...they already participate in our SAP/JDL structure...and would not impact current clubs pool a great deal

[WOW2.0]

CCU sorry...damn auto fill

[northern_swan]

I guess that’d be a ccu decision…would they be better off in NSW NYL 3 or the NNSW NYL structure? And would a decision to move to NNSW NYL impact on their place in FNSW League 2? A lot to consider overall.

[Taffy]

Does anyone think they will try and fill that vacant 12th spot in Div 2 next year.

To me, CGU would be a good inclusion...they already participate in our SAP/JDL structure...and would not impact current clubs pool a great deal

CCU are happy playing in Sydney doubt they will move in.

I think the intention is to allow a Zone League club to take the spot. While Suns are up top of ZL1, wouldn't be surprised if Kotara are in talks they had an age group compete in each of the age groups for the Youth Cup this year.

[sapdad]

wouldn't be surprised if Kotara are in talks they had an age group compete in each of the age groups for the Youth Cup this year.

They seem to have one of the bigger junior bases in the city dont they?Was always surprised they dont have a JDL program by now,I know in my oldests sons age in the early days of SAP there were a lot of kids who played miniroos at Kotara but moved clubs to get into a SAP team.Are there any other decent sized junior clubs out there?Maybe Mayfield?

[Taffy]

Was always surprised they dont have a JDL program by now,I know in my oldests sons age in the early days of SAP there were a lot of kids who played miniroos at Kotara but moved clubs to get into a SAP team.

They used to have NET though did struggle at the time.

[WOW2.0]

Just saw Charlestown (winners of Div2 phase 1) play Cooks Hill (losers of Div1 phase 1) today

Will be interesting to see how 1st and last stack up against each other between the 2 divisions :)

[plague]

Just saw Charlestown (winners of Div2 phase 1) play Cooks Hill (losers of Div1 phase 1) today

Will be interesting to see how 1st and last stack up against each other between the 2 divisions :)

'Losers'.

lol

Get a grip mate.

[TheDJ]

I ducked down to watch the 14, 15 and some 16 azzuri v Cooks
14
1-0 CH I?d say they were even across the whole match but CH had the better 1st half and scored a goal which is all that matters in the end (that?s why England is playing tomorrow)
15s
4-0 CH were just the better team.
I was excited to see the Zero tolerance for ref abuse. AND I got to watch the CH coach abuse an official, and when he got his yellow he kept going at the young ref.
Buddy was on the halfway line saying he knew better than the AR (who was in the correct position) and the ref (edge of the 18 yard) whether the ball crossed the line.

Still always good to watch and Azzuri has improved since I last watched them

[Box2Box]

Anyone know what is happening with the PYL Cup and plate competition. I have not seen any scores or draws since round 2.
Also it really is ridiculous that apart from PYLA, all other teams not in the top division basically play 11 glorified trial games before a 6-7 game sprint competition. I dont know what the answer is.
The alternatives to the current system is have 3 divisions from the start of the season and play everyone 3 times meaning 21 game competition and promote relegate at the end of the season.
Or two divisions play each other twice for a 22 game season and promote/relegate and end of the year.
.
The 3 division system would be more like for like but it would take longer for a club to go from the bottom to the top or top to the bottom.

My personal preference is 3 divisions from the start of the season and hold a meaningful competition for all teams and clubs.

[WOW2.0]

'Losers'.

lol

Get a grip mate.

I didn't mean that in any prejoritive way...but they did in fact lose the Div1 comp phase 1

What other words should I have thought of to describe the matchup

[Hunter403]

Anyone know what is happening with the PYL Cup and plate competition. I have not seen any scores or draws since round 2.
Also it really is ridiculous that apart from PYLA, all other teams not in the top division basically play 11 glorified trial games before a 6-7 game sprint competition. I dont know what the answer is.
The alternatives to the current system is have 3 divisions from the start of the season and play everyone 3 times meaning 21 game competition and promote relegate at the end of the season.
Or two divisions play each other twice for a 22 game season and promote/relegate and end of the year.
.
The 3 division system would be more like for like but it would take longer for a club to go from the bottom to the top or top to the bottom.

My personal preference is 3 divisions from the start of the season and hold a meaningful competition for all teams and clubs.

The 18's in group C play 5 games with multiple byes so the finish is at the same time as everyone else. No Wallsend or NIAS makes it a joke.
Agree with you about 3 divisions of 8 (as long as there are 8 in each group) playing three times. Top 2/3/4 promoted with equivalent demoted. Numbers up and down open to discussion as each have pros and cons.

[WOW2.0]

The 18's in group C play 5 games with multiple byes so the finish is at the same time as everyone else. No Wallsend or NIAS makes it a joke.
Agree with you about 3 divisions of 8 (as long as there are 8 in each group) playing three times. Top 2/3/4 promoted with equivalent demoted. Numbers up and down open to discussion as each have pros and cons.

3 (full) tiers of 8 sounds the most functional while offering a platform for consistent hard/quality matches at those levels of like for like.

Would be ideal if it was based on team standing, rather than club average (so clubs can build off of success)...and kids can feel empowered to impact the standard they get to play as well. (If you play really well, and your team is excellent, you don't get punished for the club having a poor average.

I feel that the mid season relegation is far from ideal...although someone suggested to me yesterday, this would work better if, the final phase was a full home and away season (i.e. 11 games phase 1, then 14 games phase 2)...helping to bring us closer to Sydney's 30 round season...they also made a good case for mid week matches too.

...
Will be interesting in a couple of weeks to see who is likely to be re promoted from tier II...think Charlestown managed a draw and a win against Cooks Hill...H/A would probably help with turning that around

[sapdad]

Would be ideal if it was based on team standing, rather than club average (so clubs can build off of success)...and kids can feel empowered to impact the standard they get to play as well. (If you play really well, and your team is excellent, you don't get punished for the club having a poor average.

I feel that the mid season relegation is far from ideal...

Good to see 2 weeks into phase 2 your son isnt happy with the program.Expressions of interest are out go get him a trial at a top 8 club and be happy.You are flogging a dead horse they arent changing the entire program to suit your kid.Dont worry,your sons club looks likely to get straight back up though so he'll be fine for phase 1 next year.

[WOW2.0]

Good to see 2 weeks into phase 2 your son isnt happy with the program.Expressions of interest are out go get him a trial at a top 8 club and be happy.You are flogging a dead horse they arent changing the entire program to suit your kid.Dont worry,your sons club looks likely to get straight back up though so he'll be fine for phase 1 next year.

Wake up to yourself

And for your info, my son is at a top 8 club...who cares

It's not about my kid, it's FOR the betterment of all the kids. Nothing I mention here is for our personal benefit...other than to ensure the completion is strong healthy and meets the goals of developing kids through, the level they find themselves at and hopefully into bigger and better things.

OMG U absolute plonker, hang your head in shame

[Taffy]

I was excited to see the Zero tolerance for ref abuse. AND I got to watch the CH coach abuse an official, and when he got his yellow he kept going at the young ref.

Should have got the red, 6 weeks to think about that disgraceful behaviour would've done the trick

[Taffy]

Would be ideal if it was based on team standing, rather than club average (so clubs can build off of success)...and kids can feel empowered to impact the standard they get to play as well. (If you play really well, and your team is excellent, you don't get punished for the club having a poor average

Despite the logistical nightmare of individual teams going into different divisions and against different clubs, this method forces the clubs to look at a whole of club approach to not only player development but club development and forces the clubs to focus on all teams rather than just be lucky having one good team and who cares about the rest.


While the 3 tiers may sound alright, the current system works well in giving some clubs different teams to play fostering better development for the players and something to aspire to. While I do feel for those in Div C 18s who have byes currently, it wouldn't be any better for them by splitting the group into 3 for the entire year. It's not as though professional leagues don't split up and I hardly doubt they are calling them glorified trial matches

[sapdad]

And for your info

A few posts ago you were referring to a group of 12-17 year old kids as losers,and when you were called out by another user you replied that they were,in fact losers.So please save me the lecture.Someone also wondered about Div 2 teams playing relegated Div 1 teams so I had a look back.This weekend there were 3 matchups.
2023 Matchday: Cooks Hill 12 points (10 goals scored), Azzurri 0 points (1 goal scored)
2024 Matchday: Cooks Hill 7 points, (7 goals), Azzurri 7 points (8 goals).

2023 Matchday New Lambton 10pts (8 goals) vs Adamstown 3 pts (3 goals).
2024 Matchday New Lambton 9pts (10 goals) vs Adamstown 3 pts (7 goals). No 15s played.

2023 Matchday Sth Cardiff 2pts (1 goal) vs Mid Coast 11 pts (29 goals).
2024 Matchday Sth Cardiff 7pts (7 goals) vs Mid Coast 7 pts (11 goals).

I'll let you all draw your own conclusions (sorry if any of my math is incorrect).

[WOW2.0]

Almost like competitions have "winners" and "losers"...odd that

I referred to the club has having lost phase 1, not to kids...(And not that they were "losers" in any prejoritive sense...simply to highlight it was an interesting clash coming up between the 1st placed club of Div2 and the last placed club of Div1...I find it hard to believe that people would not comprehend that

[AVB]

A few posts ago you were referring to a group of 12-17 year old kids as losers,and when you were called out by another user you replied that they were,in fact losers.So please save me the lecture.Someone also wondered about Div 2 teams playing relegated Div 1 teams so I had a look back.This weekend there were 3 matchups.
2023 Matchday: Cooks Hill 12 points (10 goals scored), Azzurri 0 points (1 goal scored)
2024 Matchday: Cooks Hill 7 points, (7 goals), Azzurri 7 points (8 goals).

2023 Matchday New Lambton 10pts (8 goals) vs Adamstown 3 pts (3 goals).
2024 Matchday New Lambton 9pts (10 goals) vs Adamstown 3 pts (7 goals). No 15s played.

2023 Matchday Sth Cardiff 2pts (1 goal) vs Mid Coast 11 pts (29 goals).
2024 Matchday Sth Cardiff 7pts (7 goals) vs Mid Coast 7 pts (11 goals).

I'll let you all draw your own conclusions (sorry if any of my math is incorrect).


I can only comment on the CH vs Azzuri stats but they are way off

2024
u13s 0-0
u14s CH won 1-0
u15s CH won 4-0
u16s CH won 4-1
u18s Azzuri won 4-1

CH 10 points azzuri 4 points

2023
u13s CH won 3-0
u14s CH won 1-0
u15s CH won 1-0
u16s Azzuri didnt have team
u18s Azzuri won 5-1

CH 9 points azzuri 3 points

[sapdad]

I can only comment on the CH vs Azzuri stats but they are way off


Thanks,yes I had one of the age groups backwards.

[KITZ]

Good to see 2 weeks into phase 2 your son isnt happy with the program.Expressions of interest are out go get him a trial at a top 8 club and be happy.You are flogging a dead horse they arent changing the entire program to suit your kid.Dont worry,your sons club looks likely to get straight back up though so he'll be fine for phase 1 next year.

Have you had a stroke or something since joining PYL from SAP?? its like yesterday you woke up and decided to be an absolute t***pot for no reason. like wtf?

Also kotara can't have JDL teams without a licence and northern don't just go around handing out JDL licences to clubs for funsies. It's unlikely clubs in the middle of Newcastle will get them, they will want them to spread outwards from the Newcastle centre where there's a serious lack of training grounds.

WOW is right, an 18 game season is ridiculous and I'm not sure it's worth the $1000 less I paid in fees Vs the 30 game season my kid got last year. Its almost 5 less games a season then the last system and I can't for the life of me work out why we don't play everyone twice after the season splits.

[The Hacker]

Have you had a stroke or something since joining PYL from SAP?? its like yesterday you woke up and decided to be an absolute t***pot for no reason. like wtf?

Also kotara can't have JDL teams without a licence and northern don't just go around handing out JDL licences to clubs for funsies. It's unlikely clubs in the middle of Newcastle will get them, they will want them to spread outwards from the Newcastle centre where there's a serious lack of training grounds.

WOW is right, an 18 game season is ridiculous and I'm not sure it's worth the $1000 less I paid in fees Vs the 30 game season my kid got last year. Its almost 5 less games a season then the last system and I can't for the life of me work out why we don't play everyone twice after the season splits.

I agree after the split should be home and away. Scrap the 3 glorified trial in the preseason cup. This part looks like it ends in mid August

[sapdad]

Have you had a stroke or something since joining PYL from SAP?? its like yesterday you woke up and decided to be an absolute t***pot for no reason. like wtf?

I have a problem with people referring to a bunch of 12-17 year old kids as losers and I wasnt the only one.My weekends are spent interacting with parents/coaches who feel very comfortable shitting on clubs and kids be they players or officials and I find it embarrassing.I long for the day when behaviour at games and discussions on here center on bigger issues rather than putting people down.Take exception to my attitude all you want and if you think I overreacted thats fine ill cop it.

[sapdad]

Also kotara can't have JDL teams without a licence and northern don't just go around handing out JDL licences to clubs for funsies. It's unlikely clubs in the middle of Newcastle will get them, they will want them to spread outwards from the Newcastle centre where there's a serious lack of training grounds.


Im well aware of how the JDL licence issue works.It has been expanding since year 1 and a few of us were just discussing that IF they grant more licences where they would go.Im not out here advocating for Kotara I merely stated that there were a few kids who ended up making the Jets and being involved in TSP that started their miniroo program at Kotara.I am in favour of granting more licences especially if it gives more kids opportunities to develop at their local club as long as the governing bodies make sure that the appropriate resources are provided to help coaches and clubs make the most of it.

[sapdad]

WOW is right, an 18 game season is ridiculous and I'm not sure it's worth the $1000 less I paid in fees Vs the 30 game season my kid got last year. Its almost 5 less games a season then the last system and I can't for the life of me work out why we don't play everyone twice after the season splits.

Totally agree with WOW,Hacker,you and everyone else on this.Clubs were out there playing trials in November 2023 in preparation for the 2024 season.I sure clubs would love less trials and more comp games.Home and away in phase 2 is the best idea Ive heard for sure.

[The Magician]

Community clubs will be able to apply for JDL licences from 2026

[WOW2.0]

I had been taking to the president of my boys very first club (relatively small community) a couple of months ago, and he'd said they were exploring obtaining a SAP licence

More SAP licences doesn't fill the vacancy for PYLB though with just 23 of 24 cub spots filled this season.

That 5 game tier 3 phase 2 in 18s is shocking

[sapdad]

Hopefully they will be competitive. Does JDL have tiered comps?

They are implementing a tiered system for clubs (starting next year) I havent heard too much detail how it will all work though.

[sapdad]

More SAP licences doesn't fill the vacancy for PYLB though with just 23 of 24 cub spots filled this season.

That 5 game tier 3 phase 2 in 18s is shocking

They are two different issues,more JDL programs is to build the next generation to be better than the last and provide more opportunities to kids.I agree with the lack of 18s teams,its not good enough especially at that age.After 16s theres on average half the playing group that cant get spots in 18s for the following year.Where do all those players go?Why arent clubs who struggle at that age able to find all these kids who get cut?Are there that many that give the game away or is there a better level for them to play at?Do they go straight into ZPL teams?I dont know but would be interested to know what the difference is between NPL 18s and ZPL level for kids of that age.I still wish 18s would be included back in the seniors program rather than count for juniors,but thats a different conversation.

[Taffy]

They are two different issues,more JDL programs is to build the next generation to be better than the last and provide more opportunities to kids.I agree with the lack of 18s teams,its not good enough especially at that age.After 16s theres on average half the playing group that cant get spots in 18s for the following year.Where do all those players go?Why arent clubs who struggle at that age able to find all these kids who get cut?Are there that many that give the game away or is there a better level for them to play at?Do they go straight into ZPL teams?I dont know but would be interested to know what the difference is between NPL 18s and ZPL level for kids of that age.I still wish 18s would be included back in the seniors program rather than count for juniors,but thats a different conversation.

Look at the two clubs struggling with 18s though, all those questions and none are really the answer including taking 18s out of youth (though let's be honest most are still Youth almost all of the Magic 18s are only turning 16 this year). Wallsend never really focused on youth and treated it as an afterthought, that coupled with poor 1st grade results meant players leaving the club and so none coming up from younger age groups.

The other club is NIAS, they have a smaller base of players than North Coast and less 17 and 18 year olds wanting to travel down to Newcastle every other week when they have jobs and other competeting interests.

[sideline88]

They are implementing a tiered system for clubs (starting next year) I havent heard too much detail how it will all work though.

https://issuu.com/northernnswfootball/docs/jdl_review_document_-_final

link attached for JDL structure for 2025 and beyond for those that were interested

[Taffy]

Hopefully they will be competitive. Does JDL have tiered comps?

To be tiered supposedly on what level the club is put at, this will have nothing to do with the quality of coaching or of players but rather what the clubs offer, for example to qualify for the top level a club needs each team to have a designated physio to be at each training session and game, seems bizarre since 1st and Reserves are allowed to share a physio but not JDL teams if you want to be in the top tier.

[sapdad]

https://issuu.com/northernnswfootball/docs/jdl_review_document_-_final

link attached for JDL structure for 2025 and beyond for those that were interested

Thanks for posting that.It will be interesting to see how it all pans out but good on the federation for setting some standards.The requirement for so many C Licence coaches may push NNSW to make it more practical to get one.It will also be interesting to see how many clubs adhere to the retention quotas.Its not an unrealistic number so shouldnt be too big an issue but I like the idea behind it.

[Largesse]

To be tiered supposedly on what level the club is put at, this will have nothing to do with the quality of coaching or of players but rather what the clubs offer, for example to qualify for the top level a club needs each team to have a designated physio to be at each training session and game, seems bizarre since 1st and Reserves are allowed to share a physio but not JDL teams if you want to be in the top tier.

Sports Trainer is great practically. But that's $400 plus current First Aid and CPR.

C License is great too. But it doesn't cover communicating with kids. The number of intricate football instructions being delivered/yelled at 8-11yos is next level. And what about the core skill delivery aspects of working with kids? Skill development ticket is arguably better for that.

IMHO having criteria is important but preparing clubs to practically deliver on the criteria is just as important and NNSW need to provide their plan to make it happen as well.

[WOW2.0]

Nice to see the standards noted down

...not sure how practical it is to have a unique sports trainer for each team though
(Gold tier club will need to find 8 qualified individuals...(Same for girls if they have them)...that's a difficult commitment to fill, wonder what's the reasoning of not letting them "job share")

Something similar is likley to be coming for YNPL?

Also noting, this doesn't say anything about playing in those tiers, just a status achievement for their respective programs...the reward for the club seems to be extra revenue for having 2 teams/JDL age group (and they'll likely use it as justification for charging more)...northern will obviously sell more C-Licences now

[Hunter403]

.I agree with the lack of 18s teams,its not good enough especially at that age.After 16s theres on average half the playing group that cant get spots in 18s for the following year.Where do all those players go?Why arent clubs who struggle at that age able to find all these kids who get cut?Are there that many that give the game away or is there a better level for them to play at?Do they go straight into ZPL teams?I dont know but would be interested to know what the difference is between NPL 18s and ZPL level for kids of that age.

Ok, as a PYL 18s coach, I will offer my thoughts.
I am out now looking for players from stronger 16s sides for next year. It's not the easiest task for a number of reasons.
1. Clubs will not tell players who is being released at this stage. Not good for morale.
2. Dropping in and approaching players from other clubs is not often welcomed. Some clubs are approachable and others a far less friendly.
3. Some clubs string players along until the last minute. One club last season held onto about 20 kids until the last minute. When they got the axe and they contacted me, my squad was full.
4. Some kids want to try a different sport or have just had enough.
5. Going to watch other games that are scheduled for the same time as mine is problematic.
6. Some clubs will show loyalty to a kid that has played his whole life at a club, rather than drop him for a better player.

In saying all that, if you have a son or know someone that is eligible for 18s next year but is not happy with his current club or expects to be released, send me a message.

[sapdad]

Ok, as a PYL 18s coach, I will offer my thoughts.
I am out now looking for players from stronger 16s sides for next year. It's not the easiest task for a number of reasons.
1. Clubs will not tell players who is being released at this stage. Not good for morale.
2. Dropping in and approaching players from other clubs is not often welcomed. Some clubs are approachable and others a far less friendly.
3. Some clubs string players along until the last minute. One club last season held onto about 20 kids until the last minute. When they got the axe and they contacted me, my squad was full.
4. Some kids want to try a different sport or have just had enough.
5. Going to watch other games that are scheduled for the same time as mine is problematic.
6. Some clubs will show loyalty to a kid that has played his whole life at a club, rather than drop him for a better player.

In saying all that, if you have a son or know someone that is eligible for 18s next year but is not happy with his current club or expects to be released, send me a message.

Thanks for posting that.Pretty much Point 1 is the biggest stumbling block isnt it.Clubs will frown on players putting in an EOI at other clubs before theyve decided what they are doing with them which holds the whole process up.There certainly doesnt look like theres any perfect solution to it.Good luck assembling your squad.

[WOW2.0]

Need a transfer period?
I Just wonder how many 18yos are taking there football seriously by that age.
They know by then that they want to play for fun - All Age, or a bit more seriously PYL.

Transfer window would be good...season is too short to be stuck somewhere sitting on a bench...especially at that age

[Taffy]

I agree after the split should be home and away. Scrap the 3 glorified trial in the preseason cup. This part looks like it ends in mid August

Bring it back as an actual competition. Clubs though like the trials because it means they don't have to organise anything.

[Taffy]

Ok, as a PYL 18s coach, I will offer my thoughts.
I am out now looking for players from stronger 16s sides for next year. It's not the easiest task for a number of reasons.
1. Clubs will not tell players who is being released at this stage. Not good for morale.

Have you guys got an EoI link open for kids who don't want to hang around or believe they will be let go to put in? Surely being told 2/3rds through the season that you won't be playing for the club next year is not good for morale


2. Dropping in and approaching players from other clubs is not often welcomed. Some clubs are approachable and others a far less friendly.

Well obviously that clubs don't want other clubs coming and trying to poach their players. Not that it stops coaches anyway.


6. Some clubs will show loyalty to a kid that has played his whole life at a club, rather than drop him for a better player.

Not sure why this is a bad thing for a club to do.

[Taffy]

Transfer window would be good...season is too short to be stuck somewhere sitting on a bench...especially at that age

They have till 30th June to switch. If you've been sitting on the bench for 4 months (season starts March) then you should be looking around already.

[WOW2.0]

They have till 30th June to switch. If you've been sitting on the bench for 4 months (season starts March) then you should be looking around already.

Didn't know, thanks :)

[WOW2.0]

Lots of missing games in the Squadi tool...disappointing, I was going to see how the promotion battle was going in Div2 :(

[WOW2.0]

Update for Div 2 and 3

Div 2
1. Weston (12MP) - 28pts
2. Mid Coast (10MP) - 17pts
3. Charlestown (15MP) - 17pts
4. Cooks Hill (10MP) - 16pts
5. New Lambton (9MP) - 15pts
6. Rosebuds (10MP) - 12pts
7. Belswans (14MP) - 12Pts
8. South Cardiff (10MP) - 11Pts

I made a manual adjustment of a result series I know about from this weekend (Charlestown Vs Mid Coast) that does not appear on Squadi.

(Top 4 rejoins tier 1 for phase 1 2025...which makes it the most interesting division to keep track of)

Div 3
1. NIAS (12MP) - 28Pts
2. West Wallsend (13MP) - 28Pts
3. Kahibah (10MP) - 22Pts
4. Toronto (12MP) - 14Pts
5. Cessnock (10MP) - 12Pts
6. Thornton (9MP) - 7Pts
7. Singleton (14MP) - 4Pts

[Addios]

Some clubs will show loyalty to a kid that has played his whole life at a club, rather than drop him for a better player.

Not sure why this is a bad thing for a club to do.

I thought PYL was a best of the best and community the loyalty brand. When did this change?

[Retired01]

I thought PYL was a best of the best and community the loyalty brand. When did this change?

If you elevate more clubs and teams under the PYL label the clubs and federation can charge more in fees and rego. I hope you have seen the footage of Craig Johnson at the Jets awards last night as its the comments parents are too scared to say and get their kid shunned by Northern. I would have loved to see what Peter Haynes response was too.

[Taffy]

I thought PYL was a best of the best and community the loyalty brand. When did this change?

You thought wrong, very wrong.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Expansion is great. The more kids that can access facilities and coaching, the better chance more kids fulfil their potential.

The problem for me is competition identity.

What is PYL? Is it a competition for the best in the region to train and play as competitively as they can? Is it a development league for everyone? Is it only for select clubs?

In 5 years time, this feels like it will almost replace community football as we know it, and in doing so, become community football. Do you then need specialised comp for those elite players?

I don’t know what the answer is. As I said, more coaching, more games, more professionalism and opportunities for those who seek it, can’t be a bad thing right.

[Retired01]

Expansion is great. The more kids that can access facilities and coaching, the better chance more kids fulfil their potential.

The problem for me is competition identity.

What is PYL? Is it a competition for the best in the region to train and play as competitively as they can? Is it a development league for everyone? Is it only for select clubs?

In 5 years time, this feels like it will almost replace community football as we know it, and in doing so, become community football. Do you then need specialised comp for those elite players?

I don?t know what the answer is. As I said, more coaching, more games, more professionalism and opportunities for those who seek it, can?t be a bad thing right.


I totally agree with your statement above as its gradually turning into overpriced community football and we will go round and round again to name the next big idea 'Super League' as all parents have heard that name before havent they. IMO this is a money grab or NNSW dont have the b@lls to say no to clubs as many clubs already in PYL/JDL cant field full teams but they are willing to introduce more.

[WOW2.0]

If you elevate more clubs and teams under the PYL label the clubs and federation can charge more in fees and rego. I hope you have seen the footage of Craig Johnson at the Jets awards last night as its the comments parents are too scared to say and get their kid shunned by Northern. I would have loved to see what Peter Haynes response was too.

What did he say? Is it recorded anywhere? :)

Also, side note, I noticed today the girls teams play more often then the boys...8 teams play each other 3 times for the season...and yet, we have 18s in div 3 will get a grand total of 14 games for the year

[sapdad]

Ive never understood the money complaint.Mates of mine playing All Age on a friday night pay around the $500 mark.They get 14-16 games on bad grounds at all hours of the night,no kit,not many refs,no coaches and very little access to training grounds (1x a week sharing a field with many other teams).PYL from my experience is around the $1500 mark and the kids get between 25-35 games (inc trials/finals/cups),the best facilites,kit,coaching,2-3 nights training a week.It represents value when compared to other levels.Soccer as a sport is definitely more expensive than others thats for sure,but dont hang that on the PYL program.

[sapdad]

What is PYL?

Personally I see it as a stepping stone between community and the 0.1% of kids who fancy they can make a living out of it.The most important part is having the levels (community/YPL/TSP/Jets) be as close as possible to each other so kids and clubs can flow from one to the other as easily as possible.This is so any kids showing talent can progress upwards and any kids not quite cutting it have a level to drop into that keeps them in the system but somewhere more appropriate.Thats why I personally like community clubs entering the knockout cup and the PYL breaking from 2 tiers into 3 mid year.The more it all overlaps the better idea every clubs gets as to what it takes to improve.

[WOW2.0]

Personally I see it as a stepping stone between community and the 0.1% of kids who fancy they can make a living out of it.The most important part is having the levels (community/YPL/TSP/Jets) be as close as possible to each other so kids and clubs can flow from one to the other as easily as possible.This is so any kids showing talent can progress upwards and any kids not quite cutting it have a level to drop into that keeps them in the system but somewhere more appropriate.Thats why I personally like community clubs entering the knockout cup and the PYL breaking from 2 tiers into 3 mid year.The more it all overlaps the better idea every clubs gets as to what it takes to improve.

Agree they should be as close as possible to each other, and movement between the tiers should be as fluid as possible (disagree on the mid season split though as discussed previously...but that plus a home and away phase 2 would go a long way to equalising the number of games to Sydney's standard)

On your fees comment though...PYL fees seem to be about $2000 here (for a season of, at best, 18 games, we shouldn't count trials etc). Not all the facilities are equal, or even a decent quality.

I don't know what the Jets charge, but was told Mariners is $3700 this year (for a season of 30 games)...as an academy that might be on the high side for FNSW, but Jets are probably something similar...

I do see this as a big problem. (And it doesn't matter what the o35s are getting (over)charged, as well)

The problem of paywalling opportunities.

If the desire is to develop the best kids and give them the best opportunities to make the most of their talents, as they can develop the furthest. Those with the talent and drive won't necessarily come from backgrounds who can justify that cost and so we've already limited them.

The US realised this was a major issue a couple of years ago, (we're both part of the select few countries who operate in such a way). Their response was that the elite clubs began to offer full scholarships to the the most talented kids as a way to keep those with the highest potential within the sport, and along a developmental pathway.

[sapdad]

On your fees comment though...PYL fees seem to be about $2000 here (for a season of, at best, 18 games, we shouldn't count trials etc). Not all the facilities are equal, or even a decent quality.

There are plenty of clubs charging less than $2k but it brings up a good point.If money is a factor then look around.Its been said time and again there are clubs in Div 2 and 3 that have really good coaches/cultures and facilities and dont charge that kind of money.A lot of parents would rather pay the extra and sacrifice a lot of the other stuff if their child has a chance of winning a trophy.And thats ok to look at it that way,but I think theres really good value if you shop around.Who knows,if good kids reject clubs based on price then it may make the consider what they are charging.As for Jets/Mariners etc.Im not involved in that level so cant speak if its value or not.Like everyone id love to see a system where the best kids make it that far without money being a factor.Sadly we seem to quite a fair way off that happening.

[Aegon]

Agree they should be as close as possible to each other, and movement between the tiers should be as fluid as possible (disagree on the mid season split though as discussed previously...but that plus a home and away phase 2 would go a long way to equalising the number of games to Sydney's standard)

On your fees comment though...PYL fees seem to be about $2000 here (for a season of, at best, 18 games, we shouldn't count trials etc). Not all the facilities are equal, or even a decent quality.

I don't know what the Jets charge, but was told Mariners is $3700 this year (for a season of 30 games)...as an academy that might be on the high side for FNSW, but Jets are probably something similar...

I do see this as a big problem. (And it doesn't matter what the o35s are getting (over)charged, as well)

The problem of paywalling opportunities.

If the desire is to develop the best kids and give them the best opportunities to make the most of their talents, as they can develop the furthest. Those with the talent and drive won't necessarily come from backgrounds who can justify that cost and so we've already limited them.

The US realised this was a major issue a couple of years ago, (we're both part of the select few countries who operate in such a way). Their response was that the elite clubs began to offer full scholarships to the the most talented kids as a way to keep those with the highest potential within the sport, and along a developmental pathway.

This year:
Jets - $2250 + training kit, jackets, etc.

[WOW2.0]

There are plenty of clubs charging less than $2k but it brings up a good point.If money is a factor then look around.Its been said time and again there are clubs in Div 2 and 3 that have really good coaches/cultures and facilities and dont charge that kind of money.A lot of parents would rather pay the extra and sacrifice a lot of the other stuff if their child has a chance of winning a trophy.And thats ok to look at it that way,but I think theres really good value if you shop around.Who knows,if good kids reject clubs based on price then it may make the consider what they are charging.As for Jets/Mariners etc.Im not involved in that level so cant speak if its value or not.Like everyone id love to see a system where the best kids make it that far without money being a factor.Sadly we seem to quite a fair way off that happening.

People often talk about the lack of player talent, but I think the lack of coaching talent is the bigger issue...the change of finding a too coach in div 2 or 3 would be exceptionally rare.

Then, the quality of opposition they face as well is a limiting factor as well.

I think too, defining what is a good coach isn't easy and is varied based on age group too...i.e. a good trainer, a good tactician, ability to inspire A+ performances from people (or bully it).

But, this is why I am constantly advocating for pro/rel by age group...because, if (say) Toronto, or NIAS has a great coach and inspired kids in an age group, they should be playing against the toughest opposition available and not dragged down to a club average...and that club should then be able to build many more successes out of that improving their brand positioning, etc.

.........
P.S. thanks Aegon for the costings...I really hope your boy is recovering well, I heard he got hurt quite badly so wishing a speedy recovery :)

[Taffy]

On your fees comment though...PYL fees seem to be about $2000 here (for a season of, at best, 18 games, we shouldn't count trials etc). Not all the facilities are equal, or even a decent quality.

Depends on the club some clubs are only charging $1,000 which includes the kit.


I don't know what the Jets charge, but was told Mariners is $3700 this year (for a season of 30 games)...as an academy that might be on the high side for FNSW, but Jets are probably something similar...

FNSW has a cap that clubs can charge, most clubs charge that cap and then make extra by telling kids they have to go do additional training with the coaches that isn't part of the official training nights.


Their response was that the elite clubs began to offer full scholarships to the the most talented kids as a way to keep those with the highest potential within the sport, and along a developmental pathway.

A-League Clubs alone are struggling to make money, can't see them giving free rego any time soon

[Retired01]

What did he say? Is it recorded anywhere? :)

Also, side note, I noticed today the girls teams play more often then the boys...8 teams play each other 3 times for the season...and yet, we have 18s in div 3 will get a grand total of 14 games for the year

I tried t find the video on FB again and I guess its been taken down so I will try my best to quote from what I heard but please dont think its exact.

Why is it it NNSW hasnt produced a socceroo in 24 years and they charge ridiculous amounts of money for what the kids get as the last person to be a socceroo was Robbie Middleby. He called out Peter Haynes and then said yes Peter I can see you talking but why dont you listen instead. If anyone can find the footage please post it.

[WOW2.0]

I tried t find the video on FB again and I guess its been taken down so I will try my best to quote from what I heard but please dont think its exact.

Why is it it NNSW hasnt produced a socceroo in 24 years and they charge ridiculous amounts of money for what the kids get as the last person to be a socceroo was Robbie Middleby. He called out Peter Haynes and then said yes Peter I can see you talking but why dont you listen instead. If anyone can find the footage please post it.

Hero!

Does anyone know if the mission statement of Northern is to develop elite players (should be)

[Aegon]

FNSW has a cap that clubs can charge, most clubs charge that cap and then make extra by telling kids they have to go do additional training with the coaches that isn't part of the official training nights.
I think this is a big one in Sydney. I’ve heard it mentioned before as optional but if you aren’t paying for these sessions your kid rides the bench and will struggle to be retained at seasons end.



A-League Clubs alone are struggling to make money, can't see them giving free rego any time soon
WSW do pay their players fees.

[Aegon]

P.S. thanks Aegon for the costings...I really hope your boy is recovering well, I heard he got hurt quite badly so wishing a speedy recovery :)

Thanks, it was a nasty one to see that?s for sure. All in all though the recovery is nowhere near what I have seen for other boys even in the same age group and his pain is pretty manageable already.

[Largesse]

This year:
Jets - $2250 + training kit, jackets, etc.

Raw cost. Plus $100 (at least) in petrol a week...

Which brings me to what is missing from this chat. Are the kids having fun and developing a lifelong love of football? That's the end goal. 99% won't make it so what are we doing to make sure the rest are the players, coaches, refs, volunteers of the future? They have to enjoy it. Is 200+ hours/year in the car the right option for kids? Yes it's stronger competition but is it worth it?

I don't think Newcastle has the resources to support more than about 10 teams at PYL level. And by resources I mean players, coaches, training facilities, refs, volunteers. IMO stick with 10 fixed Division 1 clubs, filter the talent (players and coaches) there rather than dilute it across more and more teams. If there are players at the right level bashing the door down and every club has full squads (not the case now) then look at expansion.

Get the Jets in Newy somehow and have multiple NNSW squads playing school holidays tournaments/round robins.

[Addios]

Raw cost. Plus $100 (at least) in petrol a week...

Which brings me to what is missing from this chat. Are the kids having fun and developing a lifelong love of football? That's the end goal. 99% won't make it so what are we doing to make sure the rest are the players, coaches, refs, volunteers of the future? They have to enjoy it. Is 200+ hours/year in the car the right option for kids? Yes it's stronger competition but is it worth it?

I don't think Newcastle has the resources to support more than about 10 teams at PYL level. And by resources I mean players, coaches, training facilities, refs, volunteers. IMO stick with 10 fixed Division 1 clubs, filter the talent (players and coaches) there rather than dilute it across more and more teams. If there are players at the right level bashing the door down and every club has full squads (not the case now) then look at expansion.

Get the Jets in Newy somehow and have multiple NNSW squads playing school holidays tournaments/round robins.

Agree with most points. I know quite a few struggle with the intensity over a long period of time. Still love it but longevity isnt there.

Playing up a year in NPL here would be ok with 8 to 10 teams but it would be important to get those tournaments with Sydney teams in.

I dont think NNSW could be bothered organising it plus they dont want to lose their NPL1 place with NSW.

[sapdad]

Lots of missing games in the Squadi tool...disappointing, I was going to see how the promotion battle was going in Div2 :(

I spoke to a coach at one of the clubs today.He feels Weston,Mid Coast and New Lambton will be back up.Final spot looks between Azzurri and Rosebuds.Cooks Hill,South Cardiff and Belswans a bit behind.He wasnt sure of exact points and said there were still a few catchups amongst them.

[WOW2.0]

I spoke to a coach at one of the clubs today.He feels Weston,Mid Coast and New Lambton will be back up.Final spot looks between Azzurri and Rosebuds.Cooks Hill,South Cardiff and Belswans a bit behind.He wasnt sure of exact points and said there were still a few catchups amongst them.

Will be interesting to see...(It's been interesting to track the club championships this year)

Over the weekend I saw that Charlestown and NL had a mixed of results (4 games played (18s postponed)

Charlestown won 13s and 16s, but lost 14s and 15s.

Belswans and South Cardiff certainly seem done though.

Last year, Belswans very nearly made it to tier 1 (failing only on the last day). I'll say they'll be weaker again next year as I know that a few if their players have been approached by tier 1 clubs already for next season.

[Taffy]

Most games so far have been fairly tight though, a few outliers but certainly yet to see the 7+ goal drubbings that we had last year. So while these "lower teams" for lack of a better word may still not be able to get over the line for wins, they appear to be more competitive than previously. Which is a good thing and shows the system is slowly working on improving play. It is only 3/4 of the way through the second year so continue to watch this space.

Of course one should expect the for coming from tier 1 to be strong and better anyway, and they have an advantage in having played tougher teams all year. It's a testament to any Tier 2 club to take a Tier 1 spot.



Last year, Belswans very nearly made it to tier 1 (failing only on the last day). I'll say they'll be weaker again next year as I know that a few if their players have been approached by tier 1 clubs already for next season.

That happened every year though and will continue, Tier 1, Div A clubs can't develop their own players so will seek to get better ones in developed by lower clubs.

[Izzy]

They have till 30th June to switch. If you've been sitting on the bench for 4 months (season starts March) then you should be looking around already.

They need to bring forward the transfer deadline to an earlier date, say 30th April. Enough time for kids/parents to move clubs if they aren't happy, but too early a date to know if relegated. In the U15s Div 1 there were kids moving clubs late June when relegation was basically locked in. Not only is it ridiculous, but completely unfair to the regional clubs who do not have the same opportunity due to geography.

[KITZ]

That happened every year though and will continue, Tier 1, Div A clubs can't develop their own players so will seek to get better ones in developed by lower clubs.

That is an absolutely massive generalisation to make. Did you ever think it might be because the kids outgrow those clubs and want more of a challenge. Training with better players absolutely helps to develop players - they move for all sorts of reasons and it's a pretty bitter take to say that div A clubs are stealing players.

Players that are committed want to make first grade at the very least, and to do that they want and need to be playing the best football they can get access to. Sorry but playing first grade in lower divisions isn't the same, its just not.

[Taffy]

That is an absolutely massive generalisation to make. Did you ever think it might be because the kids outgrow those clubs and want more of a challenge.

Yeah sure there are some kids that may go out and look for it, even more coaches and TDs hanging out the front of changerooms though.

[sapdad]

Yeah sure there are some kids that may go out and look for it, even more coaches and TDs hanging out the front of changerooms though.

In my opinion its fairly equal.The same coaches blowing up when a player leaves mid season are all too happy to sign one mid season too if it will help.There is no surefire solution to it.The early days of SAP had recruiting periods that were supposed to make all trials/retentions and scouting uniform so the kids could just get on with playing but no one cared and were out there scouting 24/7 like before.As a father whos kids have been on the end of recruiting and of being cut its always been about how clubs (and players) conduct themselves during this process thats important.Reputations stick.

[WOW2.0]

Current Club Championship
Div 1
1. Magic ~ 132Pts
2. Jaffas ~ 128Pts
3. NCF ~ 126Pts
4. Olympic ~ 125Pts
5. Edgeworth ~ 124Pts
6. Valentine ~ 122Pts
7. Lake Macquarie ~ 117Pts
8. Maitland ~ 102Pts
(N.B. 2nd and 4th postponed their games this weekend)


Div 2
1. Midcoast ~ 30Pts
2. Weston ~ 28Pts
3. Charlestown ~ 23Pts
4. New Lambton ~ 21Pts
5. Rosebuds ~ 21Pts
6. Cooks Hill ~ 16Pts
7. South Cardiff ~ 14Pts
8. Belswans ~ 13Pts
(2nd and 6th postponed all games this weekend)


Div 3
1. West Wallsend ~ 34Pts
2. NIAS ~ 28Pts
3. Kahibah ~ 22Pts
4. Toronto ~ 16Pts
5. Singleton ~ 15Pts
6. Cessnock ~ 12Pts
7. Thornton ~ 7pts
8. Vacant
(Lots of games seemed to be postponed this weekend...the bye also makes an impact)

[Hunter403]

Most games so far have been fairly tight though, a few outliers but certainly yet to see the 7+ goal drubbings that we had last year. So while these "lower teams" for lack of a better word may still not be able to get over the line for wins, they appear to be more competitive than previously. Which is a good thing and shows the system is slowly working on improving play. It is only 3/4 of the way through the second year so continue to watch this space.

Of course one should expect the for coming from tier 1 to be strong and better anyway, and they have an advantage in having played tougher teams all year. It's a testament to any Tier 2 club to take a Tier 1 spot.




That happened every year though and will continue, Tier 1, Div A clubs can't develop their own players so will seek to get better ones in developed by lower clubs.

Take a look at more than just the top grade.

In 13's NIAS beat Singo 8-1 and Singo beat Toronto 6-0. In 14s, NIAS beat Singo 7-0, Kahibah beat them 9-0, and Westy beat them 8-0. In 15s, Kahibah beat Singo 12-0 and then Singo beat Toronto 8-0. In 18s, Westy beat Toronto 7-0. Given that Kahibah's 14s and 15s both topped Div 2, there could be more blow outs ahead.

Frustrating for the Kahibah boys to beat Adamstown, Southy, Charlestown and Belswans in Div 2 and find themselves in Group C. If they were in Group B, I am sure they would be giving a very good account of themselves.

[WOW2.0]

I tried t find the video on FB again and I guess its been taken down so I will try my best to quote from what I heard but please dont think its exact.

Why is it it NNSW hasnt produced a socceroo in 24 years and they charge ridiculous amounts of money for what the kids get as the last person to be a socceroo was Robbie Middleby. He called out Peter Haynes and then said yes Peter I can see you talking but why dont you listen instead. If anyone can find the footage please post it.

A reader of the forum kindly send me the video...and because, well reasons...I have transcribed it for us all

Craig Johnson to NNSW...
Video starts?[as a] Person that doesn?t like the spotlight I try to stick out the way, but there are 2 things I love. My country and my sport. 3 things [inadable].

But I don?t want to hear more waffle and more bullshit like we?ve heard from the last 4 or 5 owners. I don?t, and neither do you, neither do you. And for the young people in the room, younger and the women who have just joined our beautiful game in the last 5-6 years, ok, there?s something really important here. I heard the word pathways. How do we get these pathways. Do you know, right, everyone was bragging about how good our region is, and what?s our region, it?s called Northern NSW and we?re the jewel in the crown of Northern NSW. From lake Macquarie to the QLD border, there?s 90,000 registered kids, Northern NSW that organisation is called. Producing players for the Jets.

We haven?t produced a Socceroo for 23 years, since Robbie Middleby. Are you listening Peter Haynes? Peter, are you listening? I know you?re talking, but sorry mate this is about NNSW and our children and their parents paying extraordinary money, extraordinary money, and getting nothing back. So listen, don?t talk, ok. The point is, our kids should be coming from this region and is a very simple thing at stake here. How do we create world class footballers?

Let me tell you a little story that answers the question, and then I?ll get off.
There?s a chap called Ange Postecoglou, ever heard of him? (crowd Yeah), Bingo, probably Australia?s finest ever coach.

Liverpool for the first time ever came out to Australia and they played against Ange?s team, in Melbourne. Ange asked me to speak to his team the day of the match, and I said, ?well, I get all emotional, Ange, I?m not sure I?m the right man?. He said ?You?re the right man!?.

So, you know what I said to the players? I said you?re about to play Liverpool anyone nervous? They all put up their hand, they all said they were shitting themselves. Right, Suarez was playing, Stevie G was playing, Liverpool at their height. The largest crowd that has ever watched Liverpool was at the MCG. And you know what I said to them? I said, Everything Liverpool do, they do it faster and they do it more accurate than you. They?ve got two arms and two legs, [but] that?s the difference [the speed and accuracy].

They were having a 6-a-side training session the day of the game. Back into the 6-a-side, do it faster and more accurate that?s the fundamental backbone of the reading, writing, arithmetic, the A-B-C of soccer and we?re not doing it here.

The new owners, and Morris who asked if I could speak, thank you Morris! And Shane Matiske who I have a great deal of respect for, right, they know what?s really important here, NNSW?I am the patron of NNSW, they are lagging miles behind and need they need to get onboard.

I am also the patron of men and women in football they need to be involved in the game. NNSW is stopping them. Are you listening Peter, sort it out mate, you?re getting paid a lot of money to produce?(video cuts out)

.......
I agree with his sentiment...you need to master fundamentals in any field

[WOW2.0]

"?" Are typically apostrophes (forgot if I type in the computer, it doesn't play nice in the forum with some special characters)

[ForeverRed]

A reader of the forum kindly send me the video...and because, well reasons...I have transcribed it for us all

Craig Johnson to NNSW...
Video starts?[as a] Person that doesn?t like the spotlight I try to stick out the way, but there are 2 things I love. My country and my sport. 3 things [inadable].

But I don?t want to hear more waffle and more bullshit like we?ve heard from the last 4 or 5 owners. I don?t, and neither do you, neither do you. And for the young people in the room, younger and the women who have just joined our beautiful game in the last 5-6 years, ok, there?s something really important here. I heard the word pathways. How do we get these pathways. Do you know, right, everyone was bragging about how good our region is, and what?s our region, it?s called Northern NSW and we?re the jewel in the crown of Northern NSW. From lake Macquarie to the QLD border, there?s 90,000 registered kids, Northern NSW that organisation is called. Producing players for the Jets.

We haven?t produced a Socceroo for 23 years, since Robbie Middleby. Are you listening Peter Haynes? Peter, are you listening? I know you?re talking, but sorry mate this is about NNSW and our children and their parents paying extraordinary money, extraordinary money, and getting nothing back. So listen, don?t talk, ok. The point is, our kids should be coming from this region and is a very simple thing at stake here. How do we create world class footballers?

Let me tell you a little story that answers the question, and then I?ll get off.
There?s a chap called Ange Postecoglou, ever heard of him? (crowd Yeah), Bingo, probably Australia?s finest ever coach.

Liverpool for the first time ever came out to Australia and they played against Ange?s team, in Melbourne. Ange asked me to speak to his team the day of the match, and I said, ?well, I get all emotional, Ange, I?m not sure I?m the right man?. He said ?You?re the right man!?.

So, you know what I said to the players? I said you?re about to play Liverpool anyone nervous? They all put up their hand, they all said they were shitting themselves. Right, Suarez was playing, Stevie G was playing, Liverpool at their height. The largest crowd that has ever watched Liverpool was at the MCG. And you know what I said to them? I said, Everything Liverpool do, they do it faster and they do it more accurate than you. They?ve got two arms and two legs, [but] that?s the difference [the speed and accuracy].

They were having a 6-a-side training session the day of the game. Back into the 6-a-side, do it faster and more accurate that?s the fundamental backbone of the reading, writing, arithmetic, the A-B-C of soccer and we?re not doing it here.

The new owners, and Morris who asked if I could speak, thank you Morris! And Shane Matiske who I have a great deal of respect for, right, they know what?s really important here, NNSW?I am the patron of NNSW, they are lagging miles behind and need they need to get onboard.

I am also the patron of men and women in football they need to be involved in the game. NNSW is stopping them. Are you listening Peter, sort it out mate, you?re getting paid a lot of money to produce?(video cuts out)

.......
I agree with his sentiment...you need to master fundamentals in any field

Connor Metcalf was our last Socceroo approximately 12 months ago

[WOW2.0]

Connor Metcalf was our last Socceroo approximately 12 months ago

Valid point...I see that he left Newcastle when he was 14-15 on a scholarship to join Melbourne City

So, I suppose it depends than on how Craig (or others) define the region "producing" a Socceroo?

[sapdad]

Connor Metcalf was our last Socceroo approximately 12 months ago

Him and Archie Goodwin both came up through "Div 2" clubs too if memory serves me right.

[Reds Forever]

Connor Metcalf was our last Socceroo approximately 12 months ago

Prime example of how NNSW are asleep at the wheel. Region is losing to many kids to other regions such as Central Coast as not given a chance locally. All the while Jets are satisfied picking up rejects from Sydney to fill their a league squad.

[The Magician]

Prime example of how NNSW are asleep at the wheel. Region is losing to many kids to other regions such as Central Coast as not given a chance locally. All the while Jets are satisfied picking up rejects from Sydney to fill their a league squad.

It's not NNSWF'S job to create Socceroos, the Jets and Mariners are our representatives for the Hunter region in the A Leagues, the highest rung in the Talented Player Pathway, under the Socceroos.

Our local kids need representation at the highest seat at the table, the Jets. If the Jets cannot provide these positions to our best local kids then we should send a message with our memberships and not support them. However, we are happy to be sold the dream of finals football after every coach or owner change, bring in the rejects from the other academy's then be upset why we are not in finals contention and then have the gal to complain about no local representatives.

2 options, we finish where we finish on the table full of locals 8+, and demonstrate where our kids fit in the grand scheme whilst earning the respect of our region. Or be honest, tell our community that our players are not good enough to compete for finals football and as that is our priority it over-rides all loyalty to our region, players, and community.

The chance of a player playing for the Socceroos outside of A-League Academies past the age of 16 is ZERO, unless the player left Australia to play in Italy, Croatia or Serbia as an adolescent.

NNSWF should support the Jets and encourage local talent to represent where possible, but unless the Jets prioritise investing in our locals we won't see a Senior Socceroo for a very long time. And since the Jets have appointed the very capable operator to run the Academy, who brought success to the Mariners. Those who know, the strength of the Mariners Academy came from hyper aggressive scouting from all over Australia and New Zealand, and a high turn over as soon as the players' ability didn't make standard, turn and burn. We cannot keep a player in our Academy past 19 years of age, they quit and join NPL teams.

[ForeverRed]

Prime example of how NNSW are asleep at the wheel. Region is losing to many kids to other regions such as Central Coast as not given a chance locally. All the while Jets are satisfied picking up rejects from Sydney to fill their a league squad.

If you watch the local league there?s no one that stands out, it?s in terrible condition the NPL, worst I?ve seen so in 10 years

[WOW2.0]

It's not NNSWF'S job to create Socceroos, the Jets and Mariners are our representatives for the Hunter region in the A Leagues, the highest rung in the Talented Player Pathway, under the Socceroos.

Our local kids need representation at the highest seat at the table, the Jets. If the Jets cannot provide these positions to our best local kids then we should send a message with our memberships and not support them. However, we are happy to be sold the dream of finals football after every coach or owner change, bring in the rejects from the other academy's then be upset why we are not in finals contention and then have the gal to complain about no local representatives.

2 options, we finish where we finish on the table full of locals 8+, and demonstrate where our kids fit in the grand scheme whilst earning the respect of our region. Or be honest, tell our community that our players are not good enough to compete for finals football and as that is our priority it over-rides all loyalty to our region, players, and community.

The chance of a player playing for the Socceroos outside of A-League Academies past the age of 16 is ZERO, unless the player left Australia to play in Italy, Croatia or Serbia as an adolescent.

NNSWF should support the Jets and encourage local talent to represent where possible, but unless the Jets prioritise investing in our locals we won't see a Senior Socceroo for a very long time. And since the Jets have appointed the very capable operator to run the Academy, who brought success to the Mariners. Those who know, the strength of the Mariners Academy came from hyper aggressive scouting from all over Australia and New Zealand, and a high turn over as soon as the players' ability didn't make standard, turn and burn. We cannot keep a player in our Academy past 19 years of age, they quit and join NPL teams.

Northern's own "mission/strategy statement" contains the claims:

"...nurturing talent and producing professional players."

And from the same page
"we also aim to increase the depth and quality of talented players throughout northern NSW."

The Jets and Mariners are private businesses, Northern cannot obfuscate responsibilities contained within their own strategy claims to private businesses.

What they can do, is build and encourage a system with the greatest potential outcome to develop elite players through the levels they administer...and they could start there by giving our local region and appropriate number of games aligning as closely as possible to the "best practice" found in Sydney, i.e. 30 games/season, and ensuring a standard of quality games through tiering (at the team level)

You can't keep up by going slower!

[WOW2.0]

Also worth noting to the claim

"The chance of a player playing for the Socceroos outside of A-League Academies past the age of 16 is ZERO..."

This is not the case, as in the case of Tom Rogic (arguably the most successful player of his generation, in terms of career achievment)

You'll not that he only joined Mariners the year he turned 20, before making it to Europe...before this, he had no involvement in an a-League (or NSL/AIS) academy set up.

So we can't exactly say it's zero 🤷
Probably more examples too

[Taffy]

Take a look at more than just the top grade.

Was looking at the middle grade



Frustrating for the Kahibah boys to beat Adamstown, Southy, Charlestown and Belswans in Div 2 and find themselves in Group C. If they were in Group B, I am sure they would be giving a very good account of themselves.

You mentioned U14s and U15s so will refer to this two teams, but they both didn't beat those clubs in Div 2. Neither of them beat Southy, 14s lost to Belswans, 15s drew with Charlestown, 15s also didn't beat Adamstown, no other 15s did either of course. The 14s and 15s may be giving an alright account for themselves, but the other 3 teams would struggle a lot

[Taffy]

Also worth noting to the claim

"The chance of a player playing for the Socceroos outside of A-League Academies past the age of 16 is ZERO..."

This is not the case, as in the case of Tom Rogic (arguably the most successful player of his generation, in terms of career achievment)

You'll not that he only joined Mariners the year he turned 20, before making it to Europe...before this, he had no involvement in an a-League (or NSL/AIS) academy set up.

So we can't exactly say it's zero ��
Probably more examples too

Rogic left for Europe so the posters claim unless they leave Australia is valid too.

[WOW2.0]

Rogic left for Europe so the posters claim unless they leave Australia is valid too.

I took the reference to having left for overseas as meaning not being here to participate in the academy structure (bypassing)

But apart from Rogic's very brief stint with "Nike Academy FC"...measured in months in 2011 (the year he turned 19), he was entirely domestically made, in spite of the Australian system neglecting what was obviously a very talented kid

[sapdad]

and ensuring a standard of quality games through tiering (at the team level)


You are still laboring this point when a couple of posts earlier it was explained to you that our 2 most recent examples of a player 'making it' were shown to have come from outside this elite group you are longing for.People are basing everything around scorelines when its one of the least important markers for evaluating individual players.

[WOW2.0]

You are still laboring this point when a couple of posts earlier it was explained to you that our 2 most recent examples of a player 'making it' were shown to have come from outside this elite group you are longing for.People are basing everything around scorelines when its one of the least important markers for evaluating individual players.

Didn't realise you meant your earlier comment toward me: Your claim

Archie Goodwin played for Cooks Hill until he was 8...then joined the Jets system (they used to have a SAP team from u9s, along with Macquarie Football, etc for those who remember)

And, as I said before...Connor Metcalfe had moved to Melbourne City the year he turned 15 (where he played in their NPL setup. He is listed as having played youth football for South Cardiff, NNSW NTC and FFV NTC (NTC being national training centre)...not sure if being part of that allowed him to continue at South Cardiff, or if the Victorian NTC happaned at the same time as playing NPL down there...but let's say he did play for South Cardiff until 14.

I'm not sure that really supports your claim that either achieved success through local Div.2 clubs 🤷 maybe Connor more so than Goodwin

[sapdad]

My claim is that talented kids exist in a lot of places outside of the 8 teams getting the 'best results' in each individual age groups.So I just dont want to focus everything on wins/tables and comp games and if more parents actually put their kids into situations where they got the most individual benefit we would see better players in the long run.

[WOW2.0]

My claim is that talented kids exist in a lot of places outside of the 8 teams getting the 'best results' in each individual age groups.So I just dont want to focus everything on wins/tables and comp games and if more parents actually put their kids into situations where they got the most individual benefit we would see better players in the long run.

I didn't say anything contrary to that...I know lots of really talented kids not in the top tier...as I pointed out before, a lot are now stuck in tier III for the rest of the year...they would develop further, playing harder and faster opposition...no.1 reason why, pro/rel should be based in team, not on team average

(IMO "blow out" score lines are often psychologically, i.e. a team just collapses after putting in a reasonable effort for most of a game, you can see it's often like a switch is flicked...but there is some body of evidence that suggests those blow outs cause harm: https://drstankovich.com/beyond-the-score-the-impact-of-blowouts-on-youth-athletes/
So I'd say scores matter at least a bit)

[sapdad]

I didn't say anything contrary to that...I know lots of really talented kids not in the top tier...as I pointed out before, a lot are now stuck in tier III for the rest of the year...they would develop further, playing harder and faster opposition...no.1 reason why, pro/rel should be based in team, not on team average

(IMO "blow out" score lines are often psychologically, i.e. a team just collapses after putting in a reasonable effort for most of a game, you can see it's often like a switch is flicked...but there is some body of evidence that suggests those blow outs cause harm: https://drstankovich.com/beyond-the-score-the-impact-of-blowouts-on-youth-athletes/
So I'd say scores matter at least a bit)

Your refusal to read any of what people are saying in good faith is tiresome.Please remind me next time I begin to engage you on this to just not bother.Enjoy your crusade and I hope you win many trophies and prizes.

[WOW2.0]

Your refusal to read any of what people are saying in good faith is tiresome.Please remind me next time I begin to engage you on this to just not bother.Enjoy your crusade and I hope you win many trophies and prizes.

I honestly feel the same way in interacting with you...but I've never attacked you personally, you have me though

I don't believe you have comprehended anything I have said, at all...you can't seem to admit when you've made a mistake (look at your claiming Archie Goodwin playing community football until he was 8 meant anything at all) 🤦

It's not about trophies, or score lines, I can barely believe that has been a take away from anything I have said...it's about suggesting system improvements that will improve outcomes for kids 🤦

[Hunter403]

Was looking at the middle grade




You mentioned U14s and U15s so will refer to this two teams, but they both didn't beat those clubs in Div 2. Neither of them beat Southy, 14s lost to Belswans, 15s drew with Charlestown, 15s also didn't beat Adamstown, no other 15s did either of course. The 14s and 15s may be giving an alright account for themselves, but the other 3 teams would struggle a lot

Beat them on the table.
Again shows that by age rather than club is better

[Taffy]

Nothing wrong with clubs forced to look at a whole of program rather than just focus on one team and let the others falter.

I was told by one Kahibah coach that they knew they weren't going to get in early June and so were just focusing on the second phase now in the bottom tier and had given teams nights off from training. Considering they finished 2 points short (8 if Adamstown had won their final 2) perhaps they could've kept trying to get more wins rather than giving up early on. Does a club who is happy to give up when it is still possible to get in deserve to be in the top 2 tiers.

[sapdad]

It might be an interesting situation with referees this weekend with several clubs playing both days and therefore a lot of referees being unavailable.

[sapdad]

Beat them on the table.
Again shows that by age rather than club is better

Kahibah 14s and 15s combined phase 1 'wins' vs teams that went into Div 2 = 3 from 7.Probably not the indicator of dominance you were looking for.For the record I would rather Kahibah have stayed in Div 2 on account of Adamstowns inability to field all teams.

[The Hacker]

Kahibah 14s and 15s combined phase 1 'wins' vs teams that went into Div 2 = 3 from 7.Probably not the indicator of dominance you were looking for.For the record I would rather Kahibah have stayed in Div 2 on account of Adamstowns inability to field all teams.

If you look at Div 2 table Adamstown are ahead of Belswans, Southy, Cooks Hill and and equal with New Lambton. That tells me the Adamstowns 4 teams deserve to be there. If they were in Div 3 they would be racking up some floggings

[AVB]

If you look at Div 2 table Adamstown are ahead of Belswans, Southy, Cooks Hill and and equal with New Lambton. That tells me the Adamstowns 4 teams deserve to be there. If they were in Div 3 they would be racking up some floggings

Adamstown have played 4 rounds of games.

Cooks Hill have only played 2 rounds
South Cardiff have played 3 rounds
New Lambton 3 rounds

considering each round is worth max 15 points and the gap between rosebus and 7th is 7 points, I dont exactly think this is a great wrap on Adamstown.

From Previous Post:
Div 2
1. Midcoast ~ 30Pts
2. Weston ~ 28Pts
3. Charlestown ~ 23Pts
4. New Lambton ~ 21Pts
5. Rosebuds ~ 21Pts
6. Cooks Hill ~ 16Pts
7. South Cardiff ~ 14Pts
8. Belswans ~ 13Pts

[WOW2.0]

If you look at Div 2 table Adamstown are ahead of Belswans, Southy, Cooks Hill and and equal with New Lambton. That tells me the Adamstowns 4 teams deserve to be there. If they were in Div 3 they would be racking up some floggings

Kahibah hs played twice

The scores for the age groups we're talking about
14s 4-0 W and 9-0 W
15s 4-1 W and 12-0 W

"Floggings" racking up anyway (they had the bye last week)

Kahibah might have beaten the 4 that stayed up only 3 times, but they also only lost twice.

[Taffy]

Hearing a lot of issues across the grounds today with club refs in place, Northern pushing ahead despite warnings that this would happen. Be interesting to see what happens to those coaches and players that were sent off for ref abuse at different grounds.

[sapdad]

Hearing a lot of issues across the grounds today with club refs in place, Northern pushing ahead despite warnings that this would happen. Be interesting to see what happens to those coaches and players that were sent off for ref abuse at different grounds.

I witnessed and have since heard about a few incidents as well.To be clear,any criticism has to be directed at the NNSW fixtures people,not the refs department.I am reliably informed they didnt want this to happen.Across the board I'd say at least 99% of the players and refs just did their best in an unfortunate situation but the behavior of parents and coaches has been fairly pathetic.It was clear some clubs and coaches were riled up before kickoff thinking they were going to get 'robbed' and conducted themselves in a disgraceful manner.Sadly,most of these people are the ones who are complaining week in week about about something else anyway so nothing is going to change.If NNSW really wanted to implement their zero tolerance policy heres the week to do it.

[sapdad]

club refs in place
One ground I was at had qualified refs sitting in the stands and all the players wanting them to ref,but due to others stepping in and being afraid of a conflict they would rather a parent do it.By the time refs get to 15-18 they have been playing with and against kids across the whole spectrum for years.They are friends with them and sometimes teammates/ex-teammates(and soon to be teammates).To automatically think because 'this kid knows that kid' that they would cheat their way through a game is a very sad reflection on the adults in the stands.If there was a little more support for our refs instead of just openly accusing them of being cheats it would go a long way to getting more kids to want to ref,and keep current refs in the system so they get more experience and confidence.But after weekends like this people are just not going to want to do it and the same whingers will be there next week complaining there arent any good refs anymore.

[Game_over]

Hearing a lot of issues across the grounds today with club refs in place, Northern pushing ahead despite warnings that this would happen. Be interesting to see what happens to those coaches and players that were sent off for ref abuse at different grounds.

Just to clarify, was this NNSW not even appointing refs for games and leaving it up to the clubs to try and organise officials? if thats the case NNSW should be ashamed

[WOW2.0]

I imagine this absence of refs is most deeply felt in Tier II and the battle for promotion back to Tier I?

I wonder how they work out the rostering each week (and how the system works)

I've heard anecdotally of lots of trained refs sitting in stands watching while that game goes without

[sapdad]

Just to clarify, was this NNSW not even appointing refs for games and leaving it up to the clubs to try and organise officials? if thats the case NNSW should be ashamed

NNSW fixture people scheduled a double header this weekend for most of the youth clubs (even though there is a spare weekend next weekend).With the vast majority of referees being players in the youth system it meant a huge amount of refs were unavailable all weekend.So you had no refs and double the fixtures.I think they appointed official referees to as many fixtures as possible but where there just werent any available clubs were told they had to organise their own.Some clubs used parents,some used official NNSW refs but they were associated with the club so it cause some issues.Cant blame the referees,the referees department or the clubs for this it is squarely on NNSW fixtures.

[Taffy]

One ground I was at had qualified refs sitting in the stands and all the players wanting them to ref,but due to others stepping in and being afraid of a conflict they would rather a parent do it.By the time refs get to 15-18 they have been playing with and against kids across the whole spectrum for years.They are friends with them and sometimes teammates/ex-teammates(and soon to be teammates).To automatically think because 'this kid knows that kid' that they would cheat their way through a game is a very sad reflection on the adults in the stands.If there was a little more support for our refs instead of just openly accusing them of being cheats it would go a long way to getting more kids to want to ref,and keep current refs in the system so they get more experience and confidence.But after weekends like this people are just not going to want to do it and the same whingers will be there next week complaining there arent any good refs anymore.

I did hear from a player in one team that the pre-game talk the coach was telling them already the ref was going to cheat, so of course the players already have that in their mind. No doubt parents also thinking the same thing and accusing them of cheating even when the correct decision is made.

[Taffy]

Just to clarify, was this NNSW not even appointing refs for games and leaving it up to the clubs to try and organise officials? if thats the case NNSW should be ashamed

Yes and refs not appointed because a lot of refs were playing on both days, something the referee association warned them would happen if they went ahead with it.

[sapdad]

I've heard anecdotally of lots of trained refs sitting in stands watching while that game goes without

My eldest and a majority of his mates that he referees with were not scheduled on any games at all over the weekend due to their own playing situation.Some stepped in and did games but were accused of being cheats,others were held out (by parents/coaches concerned with blowback) and then parents and club officials did the games and were also called cheats.I would rather a proper trained official call games every week regardless of his/her club allegiance than some parent who hasnt read a rule book.It made no sense.

[sapdad]

I did hear from a player in one team that the pre-game talk the coach was telling them already the ref was going to cheat, so of course the players already have that in their mind. No doubt parents also thinking the same thing and accusing them of cheating even when the correct decision is made.

I heard the same story and I trust the person that told me 100%.Pathetic from the coaches and parents if even half of their behavior is true.

[WOW2.0]

Agree, SAPDAD...better to at least have someone familiar with the rules


On a side note, the exciting promotion battle in Div 2 (current standings)


Div 2

1. New Lambton ~ 46Pts (23MP)
2. Weston ~ 37Pts (16MP)
3. MidCoast ~ 36Pts (22MP)
4. Charlestown ~ 29Pts (21MP)
5. South Cardiff ~ 26Pts (21MP)
6. Cooks Hill ~ 22Pts (12MP)
7. Rosebuds ~ 21Pts (18MP)
8. Belswans ~ 17Pts (21MP)

Total matches will be 34/club
(7Rds x 5Ages ? u15s bye round): Noting Rosebuds will have 28 games total)

Cardiff has climbed the table significantly to be so close to the 4th "golden ticket"...just 3 points behind Charlestown

The real dark horse that might spoil those hopes for either is Cooks Hill, who simply seem to have not had any games played recently and stuck in just 12 matches played (Weston too, but they seem pretty safe even with just the 16 games played)

[Game_over]

Agree, SAPDAD...better to at least have someone familiar with the rules


On a side note, the exciting promotion battle in Div 2 (current standings)


Div 2

1. New Lambton ~ 46Pts (23MP)
2. Weston ~ 37Pts (16MP)
3. MidCoast ~ 36Pts (22MP)
4. Charlestown ~ 29Pts (21MP)
5. South Cardiff ~ 26Pts (21MP)
6. Cooks Hill ~ 22Pts (12MP)
7. Rosebuds ~ 21Pts (18MP)
8. Belswans ~ 17Pts (21MP)

Total matches will be 34/club
(7Rds x 5Ages ? u15s bye round): Noting Rosebuds will have 28 games total)

Cardiff has climbed the table significantly to be so close to the 4th "golden ticket"...just 3 points behind Charlestown

The real dark horse that might spoil those hopes for either is Cooks Hill, who simply seem to have not had any games played recently and stuck in just 12 matches played (Weston too, but they seem pretty safe even with just the 16 games played)

Great effort by New Lambton to collect 25 out of a possible 30 points over the weekend to sky rocket into first place. Especially the 13s who have had a tough season, getting 2 big wins. The double header weekend seemed to work in their favour.

[sapdad]

Great effort by New Lambton to collect 25 out of a possible 30 points over the weekend to sky rocket into first place. Especially the 13s who have had a tough season, getting 2 big wins. The double header weekend seemed to work in their favour.

I think New Lambton have been the best example of the split competition so far.Not quite top 8 club but better than bottom 8.Where they are right in the middle but getting exposure to the top has worked for them and its been a steady improvement across the years.Im not saying keep it this way just to benefit them but its seems like theres a few strong programs in that middle group that can be the next one to do the same over the next few years.

[Taffy]

I think New Lambton have been the best example of the split competition so far.Not quite top 8 club but better than bottom 8.Where they are right in the middle but getting exposure to the top has worked for them and its been a steady improvement across the years.Im not saying keep it this way just to benefit them but its seems like theres a few strong programs in that middle group that can be the next one to do the same over the next few years.

It does show the split does works quite well, and again games are closer rather than having big blow outs because the benefits aren't just for NL. I heard NL13s dropped a player from U14s this weekend (correct age) who scored almost all the goals for the 13s this weekend. Plenty of clubs have done it and it is well within the rules to do so and if they needed the 13s to get six points this weekend to secure promotion to Div1 then fair play to them.

[sapdad]

I heard NL13s dropped a player from U14s this weekend (correct age) who scored almost all the goals for the 13s this weekend. Plenty of clubs have done it and it is well within the rules to do so and if they needed the 13s to get six points this weekend to secure promotion to Div1 then fair play to them.

It can be viewed as a bad thing as well as clubs chase results over development but its damned if you do damned if you dont isnt it.I have no problem whatsoever with players who have been playing higher ages all year getting put back in for finals as clubs should be encouraged and rewarded for having players who are able to play up a year.It can backfire though so clubs need to manage these types of situations carefully.Its crazy to think that theres only a game or two left for a lot of the kids this season (apart from making finals) after the first half of the season seemed to drag on.Plenty on here have called for it but a home and away 2nd half of the year seems a no brainer for future years.

[Taffy]

It can be viewed as a bad thing as well as clubs chase results over development but its damned if you do damned if you dont isnt it.I have no problem whatsoever with players who have been playing higher ages all year getting put back in for finals as clubs should be encouraged and rewarded for having players who are able to play up a year

Well won't be eligible for finals as per rules, but anyone who tries to tell me that coaches and clubs only care about results now because there is promotion and relegation are kidding themselves.


6.10. Youth Finals Eligibility
(a) The grade a Player has played the highest percentage of their Matches in is the lowest grade in
which they are eligible to participate in the Final’s Series.

[sapdad]

Well won't be eligible for finals as per rules, but anyone who tries to tell me that coaches and clubs only care about results now because there is promotion and relegation are kidding themselves.

Thanks for that info,I had no idea that was the requirement.

[Gman]

What I find frustrating is clubs playing goalkeepers down purely to secure points when a younger keeper is available to play up. I have no idea why NNSWF allow this to continually happen.

[Taffy]

What I find frustrating is clubs playing goalkeepers down purely to secure points when a younger keeper is available to play up. I have no idea why NNSWF allow this to continually happen.

It is odd that Northern do allow an overage keeper to play down an age, when they have a keeper in the age below. Not allowed to be done for outfield players, why keepers?

[The Hacker]

It is odd that Northern do allow an overage keeper to play down an age, when they have a keeper in the age below. Not allowed to be done for outfield players, why keepers?

I know a club that was denied the request when the correct age child and the age below were injured so instead of a kid playing down 1 age they had to bring a kid up 2 ages guess what the result was.
The kid playing down was only 2 months from being qualified. Double standards Northern

[Imyourhero]

Northern has been a mess this year with policies and processes such as these not well thought out & no pragmatism to support safe and competitive football each weekend. Should policies such as these not be clear & thoughtful? Furthermore, greater structure to outline suspensions etc for u18s & senior football needs to be a focal point. I've heard many examples of u18s players copping suspensions via red cards or yellow card accumulated in seniors without being allowed to serve suspensions in those grades, but also not being able to safely play without fear of northern changing rules. Many examples of inconsistent application with many times young players missing the chance to play up, or down, & ultimately missing more potential games than the suspension actually indicated.

Policies should be aimed at maximising games. Of course players need to take punishment for incidences however over-punishing due to inconsistent understanding or development of policy is not a supportive environment for the development of young footballers.

[Addios]

Northern has been a mess this year with policies and processes such as these not well thought out & no pragmatism to support safe and competitive football each weekend. Should policies such as these not be clear & thoughtful? Furthermore, greater structure to outline suspensions etc for u18s & senior football needs to be a focal point. I've heard many examples of u18s players copping suspensions via red cards or yellow card accumulated in seniors without being allowed to serve suspensions in those grades, but also not being able to safely play without fear of northern changing rules. Many examples of inconsistent application with many times young players missing the chance to play up, or down, & ultimately missing more potential games than the suspension actually indicated.

Policies should be aimed at maximising games. Of course players need to take punishment for incidences however over-punishing due to inconsistent understanding or development of policy is not a supportive environment for the development of young footballers.

Notwithstanding many younger refs are not totally familiar with the rules and are extrememly underdeveloped for the role that NNSW have placed them in.
They are too scared to control the game. Then the players take the suspension through frustration.

I agree with zero tolerance/abuse but this needs to be balanced with knowledgeable & competent match control.

[sapdad]

Notwithstanding many younger refs are not totally familiar with the rules and are extrememly underdeveloped for the role that NNSW have placed them in.

I cant disagree with your post more.I would overwhelmingly back any NNSW qualified referee to know more about the current laws and interpretations in a quiz with current coaches and players.You are so wrong and its not even close.Most major rules have changed in the last 10 years and the overwhelming majority of players,coaches and especially spectators have no idea they are now different.NNSW refs are coached to apply the current rules not how they were back in the day.Stop blaming refs for poor behaviour from players and officials.

[sapdad]

It is odd that Northern do allow an overage keeper to play down an age, when they have a keeper in the age below. Not allowed to be done for outfield players, why keepers?

Id say its because its a specialised position and most age groups would not keep 2 keepers in their squad (where other positions can be filled easier).I dont think its a massive issue in the 15s to 18s if a keeper plays down,but ive seen clubs having to play JDL keepers in 13s which doesnt seem like the best idea if a keeper is legitimately injured.I have seen clubs be granted permission to play keepers down in the case of broken bones and longer term injuries which has never really presented an issue.For sure they seem to judge it on a case by case issue though which makes it hard to look consistent.

[Izzy]

Well won't be eligible for finals as per rules, but anyone who tries to tell me that coaches and clubs only care about results now because there is promotion and relegation are kidding themselves.

Highest percentage is a pretty rubbery term in my opinion. If a kid is on the team sheet but doesn't step on the pitch does that mean they have 'played'? I suspect there are plenty of examples of players playing up that also have their name on their correct age team sheet with no intention of playing. I am always surprised by how many upsets there are in the finals series, and I suspect this issue has a bit to do with it.

[Taffy]

If a kid is on the team sheet but doesn't step on the pitch does that mean they have 'played'?

Because there is no way to prove he didn't then yes.


I suspect there are plenty of examples of players playing up that also have their name on their correct age team sheet with no intention of playing. I am always surprised by how many upsets there are in the finals series, and I suspect this issue has a bit to do with it.

Your example doesn't work because it accounts total games listed on the team sheet by the player and it means they have to not be listed on their correct age which means they never played their age in those games and if they never stepping on the pitch then they didn't play any game

Your example can go the other way though, if you have a spare slot, list the player in his age even if the player never takes the field and allow him to play age up. I know of one coach that did this a few years ago, so when his team made finals that player who had actually played up an age all year and never his own could come back and play his own age because the team sheets had him playing both games every week.

[Gman]

I agree and understand the logic but it should be only where there is no other solution. I have seen one club where there 13?s keeper who is one of the best around is standing on the sidelines watching the 15s keeper play down. I am not sure if the club is telling a different story to NNSWF than the reality but they have done it from all reports 3 or 4 times other times this season when the 13s keeper was available.

[Izzy]

Because there is no way to prove he didn't then yes.



Your example can go the other way though, if you have a spare slot, list the player in his age even if the player never takes the field and allow him to play age up. I know of one coach that did this a few years ago, so when his team made finals that player who had actually played up an age all year and never his own could come back and play his own age because the team sheets had him playing both games every week.

This is the point I was (obviously poorly) trying to make. Thanks for confirming that it does actually happen.

[Taffy]

I agree and understand the logic but it should be only where there is no other solution. I have seen one club where there 13?s keeper who is one of the best around is standing on the sidelines watching the 15s keeper play down. I am not sure if the club is telling a different story to NNSWF than the reality but they have done it from all reports 3 or 4 times other times this season when the 13s keeper was available.

Bit of a joke really, Northern talk about upholding the integrity of their competitions and how it is a premier competition but allow this DivA club to do this

[Gman]

Bit of a joke really, Northern talk about upholding the integrity of their competitions and how it is a premier competition but allow this DivA club to do this

How they let any club get away with it to be honest. To hear that they are not allowing some clubs who have multiple injured players to do it and then let others do it at will to secure points is crazy. But you?re 100% right this is my first year at Northern and I can see what everyone complains about 🤷*♂️

[Skimmer]

This is the point I was (obviously poorly) trying to make. Thanks for confirming that it does actually happen.

Trophies mean more than the players most of the time. You welcome.

[WOW2.0]

The competition rule that covers Goal Keepers playing down an age group

8.3. Player Eligibility Exemptions

(a) Players are not permitted to play down into an age group or grade lower than they are age eligible for with the exception of:
(i) In the event of an injury or unavailability to a Goalkeeper and the subsequent goalkeeper from the age group or grade below is unable to participate, Clubs must complete and submit the following form Eligibility Form allowing for permission to play the Goalkeeper from the corresponding next age group or grade above. Premier Youth League Boy?s | Competition Rules 2024 | P a g e | 9
(ii) The Eligibility Form must be completed and submitted by a Club Executive or the Club Technical Director by or before 9am the next Business Day following the completion of the Match.
(iii) Clubs are responsible for collecting and storing applicable evidence to support the usage of a Goalkeeper from the higher age group which may be requested by NNSWF.
(iv) In the event a Player or Goalkeeper does not meet the above criteria, Clubs may apply in writing to NNSWF to request special exemption. (v) Should a Club be found guilty of the using a Goalkeeper from a higher grade to gain Sporting Advantage, which may include taking adequate steps in assembling their squads appropriately, they may be subject to NNSWF Premier Competition Regulation 7 and corresponding sanctions.

As for the Finals?
The rule does state ?played? in as a key word?Do the officials keep a record of which subs have gone on the pitch and played?

I think there is a risk in this one, in that that kid might not play in a style commensurate with the other team, does not know how to work within that team and may even prove a liability

Ref rules 6.10, (a), ii

(ii) For the avoidance of doubt, percentage is calculated based on the number of individual games the Player has played, and not the number of games the Team has participated in

[sapdad]

Do the officials keep a record of which subs have gone on the pitch and played?


No,not in youth football with unlimited subs.

[Taffy]

As for the Finals?
The rule does state ?played? in as a key word?Do the officials keep a record of which subs have gone on the pitch and played?

Only in reserves and first grade, if they are listed in youth they are deemed to have played


I think there is a risk in this one, in that that kid might not play in a style commensurate with the other team, does not know how to work within that team and may even prove a liability

If you've played the majority of your games in the age up then chances are you know how to work with them.

Dropping down of course may see this but then they aren't eligible.

[WOW2.0]

If you've played the majority of your games in the age up then chances are you know how to work with them.

Dropping down of course may see this but then they aren't eligible.

I meant specifically if a kid was dropping down an age (for perceived advantage) 😊

[Gman]

The competition rule that covers Goal Keepers playing down an age group

8.3. Player Eligibility Exemptions

(a) Players are not permitted to play down into an age group or grade lower than they are age eligible for with the exception of:
(i) In the event of an injury or unavailability to a Goalkeeper and the subsequent goalkeeper from the age group or grade below is unable to participate, Clubs must complete and submit the following form Eligibility Form allowing for permission to play the Goalkeeper from the corresponding next age group or grade above. Premier Youth League Boy?s | Competition Rules 2024 | P a g e | 9
(ii) The Eligibility Form must be completed and submitted by a Club Executive or the Club Technical Director by or before 9am the next Business Day following the completion of the Match.
(iii) Clubs are responsible for collecting and storing applicable evidence to support the usage of a Goalkeeper from the higher age group which may be requested by NNSWF.
(iv) In the event a Player or Goalkeeper does not meet the above criteria, Clubs may apply in writing to NNSWF to request special exemption. (v) Should a Club be found guilty of the using a Goalkeeper from a higher grade to gain Sporting Advantage, which may include taking adequate steps in assembling their squads appropriately, they may be subject to NNSWF Premier Competition Regulation 7 and corresponding sanctions.

As for the Finals?
The rule does state ?played? in as a key word?Do the officials keep a record of which subs have gone on the pitch and played?

I think there is a risk in this one, in that that kid might not play in a style commensurate with the other team, does not know how to work within that team and may even prove a liability

Ref rules 6.10, (a), ii

(ii) For the avoidance of doubt, percentage is calculated based on the number of individual games the Player has played, and not the number of games the Team has participated in
Thanks for sharing, so the club is deliberately lying to NNSWF to get the older keeper to play down. Pretty disappointing when clubs would stoop that low and also not great for the younger keepers development.

[outsider]

Fully agree sapdad.The failure of coaches and players to control themselves and play within the rules is the reason for referees actions (YC/RC)I watch a lot of junior football and the majority of the referees are more than capable-maybe have a look of the standard of football they officiate on-saw 3 of the worst games (15/16/18)last weekend very poor standard games

[Izzy]

Fully agree sapdad.The failure of coaches and players to control themselves and play within the rules is the reason for referees actions (YC/RC)I watch a lot of junior football and the majority of the referees are more than capable-maybe have a look of the standard of football they officiate on-saw 3 of the worst games (15/16/18)last weekend very poor standard games

Just remember we are dealing with some very deluded parents/players/coaches here who think that their bundle of joy is on their way to EPL stardom when they are so far from that sort of level it is ridiculous. Last week I saw several offsides and fouls that the parents, coaches and players complained about forcefully to the referee, and in every case they were 100% wrong (I checked VEO).

[WOW2.0]

Sometimes referees do make poor decisions, some interpret the rules differently to one another, they may/may not see something on a pitch, and sometimes there are rules they don't realise or have forgotten in the moment, etc

We all make mistakes...but we're also not playing for sheep stations

I would like to think there was a review and feedback process to supplement the learning of especially the young referees. (There probably isn't though)...but feedback is the only way to really get better and improve standards

[WOW2.0]

Thanks for sharing, so the club is deliberately lying to NNSWF to get the older keeper to play down. Pretty disappointing when clubs would stoop that low and also not great for the younger keepers development.

I don't know which club you are referencing (and probably better not to call them out)...I haven't noticed or heard of anyone in my boys age group do this habitually

However, they may not be cheating, their younger keeper may trully not be unavailable (if I was thinking of 13s the SAP/JDL keeper might be at a different location playing around the same time); any other grades they might be unfit or have other commitments to attend to

And of course, they may be abusing the allowance...it would be up to Northern to monitor and check the evidence supplied by the club as per point (iii) in the rule I copy pasted

[outsider]

Sometimes referees do make poor decisions, some interpret the rules differently to one another, they may/may not see something on a pitch, and sometimes there are rules they don't realise or have forgotten in the moment, etc

We all make mistakes...but we're also not playing for sheep stations

I would like to think there was a review and feedback process to supplement the learning of especially the young referees. (There probably isn't though)...but feedback is the only way to really get better and improve standards

There are coaching nights at least monthly for referees and assessors/mentors are at grounds when available-but there are not enough of them to go around.After match debriefs take place and coaching reports are supplied to the referees.Can only do so much with the people available.Not sure what else can be done given the fact that most of the young referees rely on parent transport,many of them play and have other activities in their life (even school)Everyone has to start somewhere and the young referees are no different.Game would be poorer without them.

[Gman]

I don't know which club you are referencing (and probably better not to call them out)...I haven't noticed or heard of anyone in my boys age group do this habitually

However, they may not be cheating, their younger keeper may trully not be unavailable (if I was thinking of 13s the SAP/JDL keeper might be at a different location playing around the same time); any other grades they might be unfit or have other commitments to attend to

And of course, they may be abusing the allowance...it would be up to Northern to monitor and check the evidence supplied by the club as per point (iii) in the rule I copy pasted

I know the kids parents so they were frustrated that their kid was being overlooked for the opportunity and the kid was available each and everytime. It was 14?s keeper being unavailable and the 13?s keeper finishing their game and watching the 14?s play - so 100% available. I appreciate its up to Northern to monitor, but clear as day what they were doing unfortunately and I assume Northern take the request in face value. Their son will move on next season so it?s the clubs loss in the end for not developing the player.

[Taffy]

I know the kids parents so they were frustrated that their kid was being overlooked for the opportunity and the kid was available each and everytime. It was 14?s keeper being unavailable and the 13?s keeper finishing their game and watching the 14?s play - so 100% available. I appreciate its up to Northern to monitor, but clear as day what they were doing unfortunately and I assume Northern take the request in face value. Their son will move on next season so it?s the clubs loss in the end for not developing the player.

Northern don't monitor and just accept what a club tells them. Clearly this club are breaking the rules and Northern despite talking about integrity within their competitions don't really care.

Though if the club has no faith in this keeper and aren't willing to let him play, it sounds like this keeper should be looking around elsewhere to be given these opportunities.

[sapdad]

There are coaching nights at least monthly for referees and assessors/mentors are at grounds when available-but there are not enough of them to go around.After match debriefs take place and coaching reports are supplied to the referees.Can only do so much with the people available.Not sure what else can be done given the fact that most of the young referees rely on parent transport,many of them play and have other activities in their life (even school)Everyone has to start somewhere and the young referees are no different.Game would be poorer without them.

Just to add to this,theres usually about 16-20 matchdays attended by assessors over a weekend.They dont do all grades but every written report my boys have ever gotten have been pretty in depth and helpful (for both centre refs and assistants).They give feedback on positioning,decisions and general management of the games.There was a program to get as many mentors (ex-players/coaches/interested parents) to give up their time and attend matchdays (most involving 1st year refs at JDL) to help kids with some of the finer points.If refs want to do finals series games they had to do an extra coaching session out at the facility as well as a fintess test.The refs did this on their own time.If they didnt pass both they werent going to be considered for selection.So to add to outsiders point,yes,in fact there is a lot of work being put in to improving the standard of refereeing every week.

[sapdad]

We all make mistakes...

This is the bit that gets me the most.If a coach makes a bad sub,or sets his team up wrong do parents and players ever feel empowered to lean over the fence and call them a cheat and carry on like idiots?If anyones kid has an airswing,misses a tackle,fumbles a sitter or misses a tap in do adults scream and swear about how awful they are and accuse them of being a cheat for the other team?Because this is exactly how these same adults feel about abusing match officials.Again,and without any confusion,match officlals know more about the rules,and how to apply them that the overwhelming majority of people on the other side of the fence and anyone abusing match officials look pathetic and deserve to be removed from the sport.