The Music Thread

[Frodo]

Thats right, Mr Baggins..
They are touring with Osaka Punch too!! Bloody good stuff..
I can't say I've listened to much since the Just Visiting EPs, the days of seeing them play to 5 people at the Beachcomber and The Bar On The Hill are well and truly over..

So many nights sweating away underneath the Beachcomber watching COG and the Butterfly Effect shred out to pretty much the same guys in the crowd every 3-6 months. I still remember when Mammal first played there and old mate shows up with his Disco ball helmet. They looked stupid, played surprisingly well.

[Mark325]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUp03PaFIkU
HLH New album Anon is pretty good IMO

been a big fan of these guys when ground dwellers came out in like 2011, they just had something about them even back then and they have really grown and matured so much

[StannyCFCJET]

been a big fan of these guys when ground dwellers came out in like 2011, they just had something about them even back then and they have really grown and matured so much

Ever seen them live? I saw their acoustic intimate shows in Sydney earlier this year was pretty special

[StannyCFCJET]

Lets try something fun. Answer Honestly

First ever Record bought?
blink-182 California (Starting a collection)
First ever Cassette tape?
I think backstreet boys album in late 90s haha
First ever CD?
Honestly think Hamster-dance but actual music Green Day American Idiot
First ever gig attended?
Angels and Airwaves UNSW roundhouse 2012
Favourite band/artist right now?
Trophy Eyes
Favourite band/artist all time?
blink-182
Favourite musical release of all time?
blink-182 self titled
Finally recommend a new or unknown artist/band to people
The Beautiful Monument. All female metal/alt Aussie group.

[furns]

seriously considering going to The Superjesus gig at the Cambo tonight, was a big fan back in the day. But Im probably not going to have time :(

[Mark325]

Ever seen them live? I saw their acoustic intimate shows in Sydney earlier this year was pretty special

seen them twice, one with northlane in newy last year and the acoustic show this year

both times have been incredible

[StannyCFCJET]

Trophy Yes playing at the cambridge January 26th

[StannyCFCJET]

Download festival 1st and 2nd line up is good. I'm 100% going now

[plague]

Went to Chvrches at the Opera House tonight.
Amazing.
Like truly ****ing amazing.

[Frodo]

Just got home, after a few days rest in Melbourne, from Unify Gathering 2019.

A few things.

- it was awesome.
- there are no freaking rules. (They say no glass, but don't really check) you can bring as much grog as you want and get as hammered as you want in the camping area. Not to mention all the other things that I'm sure were going on.
- food was tasty and cheaper than you're average festival, but still not cheap. Basically allow $12 a meal per/person. But, pack your own food for your campsite and save a few quid for a few meals. The local footy teams run a good stall and do $6 egg and bacon rolls al morning as well as hash browns. Very tasty.
-Showers cost $10, so bring plenty of baby wipes because that's a lot of money for 5 minutes of hot water.
- it was very awesome.
- bring a trolley of something to bring your stuff to the camping area. It's probably a 500m walk with all your gear and that was the hardest part of the whole weekend.

I will be going again next year. Single stage festivals are the only way to go. It felt like an early Soundwave festival.

[StannyCFCJET]

Just got home, after a few days rest in Melbourne, from Unify Gathering 2019.

A few things.

- it was awesome.
- there are no freaking rules. (They say no glass, but don't really check) you can bring as much grog as you want and get as hammered as you want in the camping area. Not to mention all the other things that I'm sure were going on.
- food was tasty and cheaper than you're average festival, but still not cheap. Basically allow $12 a meal per/person. But, pack your own food for your campsite and save a few quid for a few meals. The local footy teams run a good stall and do $6 egg and bacon rolls al morning as well as hash browns. Very tasty.
-Showers cost $10, so bring plenty of baby wipes because that's a lot of money for 5 minutes of hot water.
- it was very awesome.
- bring a trolley of something to bring your stuff to the camping area. It's probably a 500m walk with all your gear and that was the hardest part of the whole weekend.

I will be going again next year. Single stage festivals are the only way to go. It felt like an early Soundwave festival.

**** this sounds awesome. Who were your highlights music wise?

[Frodo]

As for the music.

Crossfaith were shockingly amazing. Don't know any music they play, still don't, but for 30 minutes they smashed our faces off with pure energy and fire.

Karnivool have gone back on the road and I was worried that no one there would know much of their music, it was a pretty young crowd. They absolutely killed it and were probably the best performance of the weekend. They sounded amazing after all these years and I was talking to one of the US bands the next day, yeah most of the smaller bands camp in the same area and come watch the shows, and they were shocked at how good they were.

In Hearts Wake tried hard, but neither of them can sing and it bothers me terribly. They play some ok music, but not being able to sing live kind of kills it for me.

Underoath had sound issues and it was 1:00am when they came out. So it was hard going to get people gee'd up. I loved them, but neutrals wouldn't have enjoyed them.

Thorn Hill are a young post/prog band and are gonna be big. 20 yrs old and they sounded great, good energy too.

Everytime I Die are still a juggernaut. Their guitarist is one of the biggest human beings Ive ever seen up close.

Trophy Eyes are originally from Newy and could end up being bigger than Silverchair. They are the new poster boys of Aussie punk and have put together a live show which is great. Biggest crowd of the weekend as for them and the performing matched the crowds.


Heaps of smaller bands impressed me. Added a few to my Spotify rotation.

[StannyCFCJET]

As for the music.

Crossfaith were shockingly amazing. Don't know any music they play, still don't, but for 30 minutes they smashed our faces off with pure energy and fire.

Karnivool have gone back on the road and I was worried that no one there would know much of their music, it was a pretty young crowd. They absolutely killed it and were probably the best performance of the weekend. They sounded amazing after all these years and I was talking to one of the US bands the next day, yeah most of the smaller bands camp in the same area and come watch the shows, and they were shocked at how good they were.

In Hearts Wake tried hard, but neither of them can sing and it bothers me terribly. They play some ok music, but not being able to sing live kind of kills it for me.

Underoath had sound issues and it was 1:00am when they came out. So it was hard going to get people gee'd up. I loved them, but neutrals wouldn't have enjoyed them.

Thorn Hill are a young post/prog band and are gonna be big. 20 yrs old and they sounded great, good energy too.

Everytime I Die are still a juggernaut. Their guitarist is one of the biggest human beings Ive ever seen up close.

Trophy Eyes are originally from Newy and could end up being bigger than Silverchair. They are the new poster boys of Aussie punk and have put together a live show which is great. Biggest crowd of the weekend as for them and the performing matched the crowds.


Heaps of smaller bands impressed me. Added a few to my Spotify rotation.

Awesome. Im seeing Trophy Eyes next wkend at the Cambridge should be good and having a band at 1am is dumb as ****

[Frodo]

Awesome. Im seeing Trophy Eyes next wkend at the Cambridge should be good and having a band at 1am is dumb as ****

Both headliners finished at 2am. Its tough, because they want to have heaps of bands but not start too early.(drunk people sleep in) I enjoyed it, cause I'm not a child and can handle my drink, lol.

Would highly recommend you go next year. I'm gonna look into hiring a camper van next time rather than driving all the way down and back like we did this time. I'm fecking exhausted.

[StannyCFCJET]

Both headliners finished at 2am. Its tough, because they want to have heaps of bands but not start too early.(drunk people sleep in) I enjoyed it, cause I'm not a child and can handle my drink, lol.

Would highly recommend you go next year. I'm gonna look into hiring a camper van next time rather than driving all the way down and back like we did this time. I'm fecking exhausted.

Problem is getting mates to get time off and actually be keen to go

[Frodo]

Problem is getting mates to get time off and actually be keen to go

Screw your mates. Just go solo and make friends when you get there. Everyone is always inviting you over for a drink under their gazebo or whatever.

[Premy]

Trophy Eyes are originally from Newy and could end up being bigger than Silverchair. They are the new poster boys of Aussie punk and have put together a live show which is great. Biggest crowd of the weekend as for them and the performing matched the crowds.

Hold on one second.

Firstly the Newy boyz go hard, but "poster boys of Aussie punk" bitch please. Their first 2 albums were Hardcore and it's only this latest album that has been leaning towards the Punk scene. Calling these guys the poster boys is a slap in the face to the Aussie Punk/Grunge bands that have made the resurgence in the genre at the moment.

Not since the days of Jebediah, Gyroscope, Living End and Something for Kate has the Punk/Grunge scene been this strong. If anyone is the poster boys of Aussie Punk at the moment it would be Skegss or Dune Rats, there is an abundance of Aussie Punk bands at the moment and it is f'ing amazing.

[Bon]

Bloody nice work Mr Baggins..
I've sworn for years that my days of festivals are over, but the way you described it got my giblets tingling and feeling keen again.. Don't be alarmed, it will pass and my old-age grumpiness will kick back in..

Do you remember texting me during/after ETID's set? Ya pisshead.. haha

The only Trophy Eyes song I have heard, was whatever came up on Youtube first (Stanny was mentioning how much he loved em so I thought I'd check them out)
I thought they couldn't be further from punk?? It was just your usual watered-down pop masquerading as something else.. Isn't it?

[Bon]

Now, on a different note, THIS is a concert to get excited about..
I've been waiting a looooooong time to see these guys live:

http://www.birdsrobe.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/RussianCircles-ok.jpg

[plague]

Not since the days of Jebediah, Gyroscope, Living End and Something for Kate has the Punk/Grunge scene been this strong.

Something for Kate was never punk, or grunge.

Just trash.
They def own that category.





(Oh and to be #wellactually guy, but Bodyjar is prob the 'pop/punk' band from that era).

[pv4]

Something for Kate...

Just trash.
They def own that category.

Sometimes I wonder why I like you tbh.

[Frodo]

Hold on one second.

Firstly the Newy boyz go hard, but "poster boys of Aussie punk" bitch please. Their first 2 albums were Hardcore and it's only this latest album that has been leaning towards the Punk scene. Calling these guys the poster boys is a slap in the face to the Aussie Punk/Grunge bands that have made the resurgence in the genre at the moment.

Not since the days of Jebediah, Gyroscope, Living End and Something for Kate has the Punk/Grunge scene been this strong. If anyone is the poster boys of Aussie Punk at the moment it would be Skegss or Dune Rats, there is an abundance of Aussie Punk bands at the moment and it is f'ing amazing.

A few things.

Hardcore is punk.

Trophy Eyes were an emo band, now they are a pop punk bad. They've never been hardcore, unless it was on their 1st EP which was 5 years ago.

Dune rats are a surfer/garage rock band, not punk. Plus they are terrible.

Skeggs are doing ok I guess, but they are too bogan for US audiences to really get into.

The only 2 Aussie punk bands who are doing better than Trophy Eyes right now are Luca Brasi and Violent Soho. But I think they've both peaked.

Trophy Eyes already charted on the US billboards on their 2nd album. Amity Affliction are dying down, Parkway drive are too far into the metal side of metalcore. So we really don't have any big bands on the Punk/Hardcore scene anymore. Hence my comments.

[StannyCFCJET]

A few things.

Hardcore is punk.

Trophy Eyes were an emo band, now they are a pop punk bad. They've never been hardcore, unless it was on their 1st EP which was 5 years ago.

Dune rats are a surfer/garage rock band, not punk. Plus they are terrible.

Skeggs are doing ok I guess, but they are too bogan for US audiences to really get into.

The only 2 Aussie punk bands who are doing better than Trophy Eyes right now are Luca Brasi and Violent Soho. But I think they've both peaked.

Trophy Eyes already charted on the US billboards on their 2nd album. Amity Affliction are dying down, Parkway drive are too far into the metal side of metalcore. So we really don't have any big bands on the Punk/Hardcore scene anymore. Hence my comments.

Tonight Alive would be up there if they hadn't made Limitless their second last album

[Bon]

I don't agree that hardcore is punk..

[plague]

Sometimes I wonder why I like you tbh.

Because I live my life 1/4 mile at a time?

[StannyCFCJET]

I don't agree that hardcore is punk..

It's often shoved under the same banner

[Bon]

It's often shoved under the same banner

Yeah mate.. I know it is, there are obvious similarities, but to me it shouldn't be labeled the same..

If you want some hardcore, get to the Small Ballroom on 28th of Jan to see Terror play..
Beeen, you getting to this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O_Cd9a_Wu0

[The Dunster]

These guys started the Punk Music genre - and they were Australian as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9M3b9lh-7s

[The Dunster]

Other bands like these guys followed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKiZ9VSD6U

[Frodo]

I don't agree that hardcore is punk..

The term Hardcore is actually short for Hardcore Punk. Can't have one without the other. You're a metal kid, you should know all about the trillion different sub genres in each of the schools of music. I prefer Emo punk over skater punk but it's all still punk.

[The Dunster]

Anyone remember GBH ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDSqAfkTUdo&list=OLAK5uy_nLB_cMqTF1XI8XJeD-6cweeBUwfEkvqlQ

[The Dunster]

I don't agree that hardcore is punk..

Agree. Totally different genre.

[Bon]

The term Hardcore is actually short for Hardcore Punk. Can't have one without the other. You're a metal kid, you should know all about the trillion different sub genres in each of the schools of music. I prefer Emo punk over skater punk but it's all still punk.

This is true..
But hardcore became its own in a way. I mean, now you have metalcore.. That is metal and hardcore.. Not metal hardcore punk..
Obviously all forms of music have evolved or morphed from other genres, but I just don't think hardcore IS punk.. It's come from there though, yep.
I mean, there is a big difference between Terror who I just posted and say, Frenzal Rhomb, who I would consider to be punk..

I do see what you are saying though, mate..

[Premy]

A few things.

Hardcore is punk.

Trophy Eyes were an emo band, now they are a pop punk bad. They've never been hardcore, unless it was on their 1st EP which was 5 years ago.

Dune rats are a surfer/garage rock band, not punk. Plus they are terrible.

Skeggs are doing ok I guess, but they are too bogan for US audiences to really get into.

The only 2 Aussie punk bands who are doing better than Trophy Eyes right now are Luca Brasi and Violent Soho. But I think they've both peaked.

Trophy Eyes already charted on the US billboards on their 2nd album. Amity Affliction are dying down, Parkway drive are too far into the metal side of metalcore. So we really don't have any big bands on the Punk/Hardcore scene anymore. Hence my comments.
I would argue that Surf Rock is Punk/Grunge, Dune Rats sound isn't far of what Nirvana was doing.

Don't get me wrong Trophy Eyes are killing it and I'm a big fan but I would hardly call them the poster boys.
News flash we are in Australia, who gives 2 F's what the US ordinance want or think. In Australia at the moment bands like Smith Street Band, The Bennies, Polish Club, DZ Deathrays, Dune Rats and Skegss are all pulling similar crowds to Trophy Eyes. Then you have the up coming bands like The Hard Aches, Tired Lion, Dear Seattle and Hockey Dad all making huge waves, the scene in Australia is making it's own way and it doesn't need the US market.

Oh and big love on Luca Brasi, I've been listening to them for about 5 years now and seen them live on NYE 2017. One of the best live sets I've seen in a long time. FYI I seen Tired Lion about a fortnight ago and they also smashed it if you haven't checked them out I seriously think you should, If Garbage and No Doubt had a baby it would have been Tired Lion.

[Bon]

Dunster, where did you pull GBH from? I've never heard of them.. I used to listen to a bit of The Exploited back in the day, I kinda feel they woulda been influenced by GBH?
Not too shabby at all..

[Premy]

Something for Kate was never punk, or grunge.

Just trash.
They def own that category.





(Oh and to be #wellactually guy, but Bodyjar is prob the 'pop/punk' band from that era).

Get out of here with your Something for Kate hate.

Don't get me wrong Bodyjar are great but Area 7 are the best Aussie Punk Band from the 90's.

[Premy]

Yeah mate.. I know it is, there are obvious similarities, but to me it shouldn't be labeled the same..

If you want some hardcore, get to the Small Ballroom on 28th of Jan to see Terror play..
Beeen, you getting to this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O_Cd9a_Wu0

Does Beeen even come on here anymore?

[Bon]

Does Beeen even come on here anymore?

He never posts, but hes ALWAYS lurking.. :rof:

[plague]

Don't get me wrong Bodyjar are great but Area 7 are the best Aussie Punk Band from the 90's.

was more just posting from a commercial/critical success point of view.

But yeah Something for Kate is trash. Paul Dempsey is trash.
Im glad we can all agree on that.

[Frodo]

I would argue that Surf Rock is Punk/Grunge, Dune Rats sound isn't far of what Nirvana was doing.

Nirvana weren't punk, they were a rock band. Same as Dune Rats.

[StannyCFCJET]

Hands like Houses another Aussie band going strong atm. Stand Alantic also getting bigger

[Premy]

Nirvana weren't punk, they were a rock band. Same as Dune Rats.
"Punk is musical freedom. It's saying, doing and playing what you want. In Webster's terms, 'nirvana' means freedom from pain, suffering and the external world, and that's pretty close to my definition of Punk Rock."

Kurt Cobain

[Bon]

"No, I don't have a gun"

Kurt Cobain - Come As You Are

[Premy]

"No, I don't have a gun"

Kurt Cobain - Come As You Are

:shock::roflz: Dead

[The Dunster]

Dunster, where did you pull GBH from? I've never heard of them.. I used to listen to a bit of The Exploited back in the day, I kinda feel they woulda been influenced by GBH?
Not too shabby at all..

Someone I knew from attending shows in the late 70's early 80's made some Bootlegs of them in the late 70's [ We called him Bambi ]- He'd seen the Sex Pistols, Stooges, Dead Kennedy's, Velvet Underground, Joy Division, and a host of other iconic bands when they were at their peak - and fortunately he recorded it all.

[Frodo]

This is true..
But hardcore became its own in a way. I mean, now you have metalcore.. That is metal and hardcore.. Not metal hardcore punk..
Obviously all forms of music have evolved or morphed from other genres, but I just don't think hardcore IS punk.. It's come from there though, yep.
I mean, there is a big difference between Terror who I just posted and say, Frenzal Rhomb, who I would consider to be punk..

I do see what you are saying though, mate..

I've typed and deleted about 5 responses to this but I can't put it into words easily. Too many bands are labelled as hardcore these days that aren't really hardcore. If they have a few breakdowns in their music then they are labelled as hardcore.

It's similar to the late 90s early 2000s when everything that wasn't heavy metal, but wasn't soft enough to be played on the radio was labelled as Nu Metal.

So I'll probably have to concede that hardcore and punk are quite different.

To me, hardcore bands should sound like they are playing a punk song, but sped up and cranked up to 11 with terrifying lyrics smashed into your face/chest whilst sweaty dudes swing elbows and fists all around you're head and someone throws a shoe at you. I.e Black Flag. But I might be old fashioned.

[The Dunster]

What I like about Extreme Metal / Hardcore is that it's pretty much the only genre around still in development. Everything else has been done before - and usually a lot better.

[Frodo]

"Punk is musical freedom. It's saying, doing and playing what you want. In Webster's terms, 'nirvana' means freedom from pain, suffering and the external world, and that's pretty close to my definition of Punk Rock."

Kurt Cobain

Yeah, but Cobain was a massive wanker with an Ego and probably wished he could be a punk rocker. It's still got to sound like punk music to be punk music. Other wise anyone who is against "The System" is in a punk band. Rage Against the Machine and Public Enemy are punk as hell, but they don't make punk music.

[Bon]

Too many bands are labelled as hardcore these days that aren't really hardcore. If they have a few breakdowns in their music then they are labelled as hardcore.

Absolutely!!


It's similar to the late 90s early 2000s when everything that wasn't heavy metal, but wasn't soft enough to be played on the radio was labelled as Nu Metal.

Ahhhh I see Nu Metal as different to that. I'd say it was when you got the cross-pollination of rapping with some metal riffs.. Korn, Linkin Park, Disturbed, Limp Bizkit, etc.. Although, the more I think about that definition, does that make RATM nu-metal? I would say no, even though it would definitely fit that interpretation..


To me, hardcore bands should sound like they are playing a punk song, but sped up and cranked up to 11 with terrifying lyrics smashed into your face/chest whilst sweaty dudes swing elbows and fists all around you're head and someone throws a shoe at you. I.e Black Flag. But I might be old fashioned.

Totally agree on this.
I grew up listening to a lot of the New York Hardcore scene.. Which kind of crossed over with metal, nu-metal, screamo, etc.. Bands like Vision Of Disorder, Integrity, Madball, Sick Of It All, Agnostic Front, Gorilla Biscuits, Earth Crisis..
Later on, that same area also produced bands like Biohazard (never understood their appeal) and Pro-Pain who weren't anything alike but were quite massive..

[Frodo]

What I like about Extreme Metal / Hardcore is that it's pretty much the only genre around still in development. Everything else has been done before - and usually a lot better.

Don't be so old Dunster, lol.

Always remember that at some point, no matter how hard you try, your own personal taste will be stuck somewhere in your past and music will continue to grow without you.

Hip hop is nowhere near its peak. Every year now a new Classic is released.

Hardcore, as you said, is still growing.

Lo Fi is relatively new to me and it's awesome.

Plus, probably other stuff that I don't know about.

[Bon]

Always remember that at some point, no matter how hard you try, your own personal taste will be stuck somewhere in your past and music will continue to grow without you.

Pretty sure all my music goes back to when I was first discovering the great things in life like women, booze, etc.. :gent:

[The Dunster]

Don't be so old Dunster, lol.

Always remember that at some point, no matter how hard you try, your own personal taste will be stuck somewhere in your past and music will continue to grow without you.

Hip hop is nowhere near its peak. Every year now a new Classic is released.

Hardcore, as you said, is still growing.

Lo Fi is relatively new to me and it's awesome.

Plus, probably other stuff that I don't know about.

I think you are talking more about how the product is marketed more so than the actual product itself.

In your lifetime - what would you say was the most revolutionary piece of music you have heard ?

[Bon]

I think you are talking more about how the product is marketed more so than the actual product itself.

Baaaaaaam..
Dunster dropping truth nuggets..

[Frodo]

Ahhhh I see Nu Metal as different to that. I'd say it was when you got the cross-pollination of rapping with some metal riffs.. Korn, Linkin Park, Disturbed, Limp Bizkit, etc.. Although, the more I think about that definition, does that make RATM nu-metal? I would say no, even though it would definitely fit that interpretation..


Everything that came through that era was labelled as Nu Metal. Sevendust, Ramstein, Staind, Deftones, System of a Down...

How many of those bands sound alike to you?

Nowadays, they've all been moved into appropriate genres. Prog, hard rock, grunge rock etc. I'd say Sevendust and Staind would stay in Nu Metal but the others would all be elsewhere.

[Frodo]

In your lifetime - what would you say was the most evolutionary piece of music you have heard ?

What do you mean by evolutionary?

[Bon]

Everything that came through that era was labelled as Nu Metal. Sevendust, Ramstein, Staind, Deftones, System of a Down...

How many of those bands sound alike to you?

Nowadays, they've all been moved into appropriate genres. Prog, hard rock, grunge rock etc. I'd say Sevendust and Staind would stay in Nu Metal but the others would all be elsewhere.

Deftones first two albums are in the "amazing" category, with everything they did after that in the "absolute sh!t" genre... (Granted, White Pony has a few good songs.. haha)
I know this statement will get you frothing, Mr Baggins..

[The Dunster]

Like the first time people heard Eddie Van Halen play Eruption.

The First time people heard Joy Division, or Hendrix....or Link Wray.. and a host of others.

I'd put Nirvana in the same mould as The Spice Girls - right place right time - but were really just the face of something that already existed.

Not saying I don't like it - just saying it was nothing New.

King Crimson, Mud Honey, Neil Young, and a host of others developed the Nirvana sound long before they ever did.

Joy Division, Hendrix, and Eddie Van Halen - started something completely new musically.

[Bon]

In your lifetime - what would you say was the most revolutionary piece of music you have heard ?

I need time to think about this question..


Like the first time people heard Eddie Van Halen play Eruption.

I imagine it would have lived up to its name!!
People didn't really play guitar like that back then.. I always imagine it like Marty McFly playing in Back To The Future and seeing everyone's faces going "what the fvck was that??"

[The Dunster]

I need time to think about this question..



I imagine it would have lived up to its name!!
People didn't really play guitar like that back then.. I always imagine it like Marty McFly playing in Back To The Future and seeing everyone's faces going "what the fvck was that??"

Exactly - we thought it pretty much ended with Hendrix - then Eddie appears ten years latter.

[plague]

Dunster was around when barbershop quartets first started using curse words.

[Bon]

Dunster was around when barbershop quartets first started using curse words.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raniSkRLa14

[plague]

RATM were pretty 'groundbreaking' if you think of them as a drum and bass driven band with super unconventional guitar parts and 'rap style lyrics.

Not much was new from an individual perspective but the sum of the parts was dope.

[Frodo]

Like the first time people heard Eddie Van Halen play Eruption.

The First time people heard Joy Division, or Hendrix....or Link Wray.. and a host of others.

I'd put Nirvana in the same mould as The Spice Girls - right place right time - but were really just the face of something that already existed.

Not saying I don't like it - just saying it was nothing New.

King Crimson, Mud Honey, Neil Young, and a host of others developed the Nirvana sound long before they ever did.

Joy Division, Hendrix, and Eddie Van Halen - started something completely new musically.

Sorry to be a hater, but meh? Music is subjective, if someone can make better sounding music today than 30 years ago, I'll listen to that instead.
I've listened to all the classics, I was brought up in a house that had music on all the time, I studied music in high school, I was in a shitty band, Ive done the whole thing. I appreciate what they did, and I will respect the music, but there's music being released today that sounds better than what was released 30 years ago.

I'll always go back to the albums that formed my musical tastes and taught me everything, but I'd rather go find something new to listen to every month or so and expand my horizons.

[The Dunster]

Sorry to be a hater, but meh? Music is subjective, if someone can make better sounding music today than 30 years ago, I'll listen to that instead.
I've listened to all the classics, I was brought up in a house that had music on all the time, I studied music in high school, I was in a shitty band, Ive done the whole thing. I appreciate what they did, and I will respect the music, but there's music being released today that sounds better than what was released 30 years ago.

I'll always go back to the albums that formed my musical tastes and taught me everything, but I'd rather go find something new to listen to every month or so and expand my horizons.

I wasn't talking about music subjectively. I was talking about innovation - about actual music - you seem to be stuck on how the product is marketed.

Example - Beatles vs Rolling Stones. Which do you prefer is a subjective question.

But if we look at the facts - one of them changed music not only from a technical perspective but as a marketable product as well.

Merchandising, Albums consisting of all original material, Psychedelica, Heavy Metal [Helter Skelter].... and the list goes on.

I much prefer the Rolling Stones - but the Beatles were an infinitely better band when it comes to innovation and dare I say it wow factor.

The Rolling Stones rode a wave created by others - although they did it very well.

[Bon]

I am sure you have posted this one before Dunster, but it still rings true today.. Scarily so..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP4wsURn3rw

[Premy]

If you want to get all technical Dunstersaur there hasn't been original music since the late 1940's when Rock N Roll was born from Gospel music. Everything since then has all evolved in different branches from the Rock N Roll movement of the 1940's.

Music evolves its all subjective, I like some stuff from the 1940's and I like stuff from 2019. Is one better than the other? No it's all subjective.

I remember when my parents would say stuff like "music we listen to is timeless, they won't be playing that shit you listen to in 25 years on the radio". Guess what my parents were wrong.

[The Dunster]

If you want to get all technical Dunstersaur there hasn't been original music since the late 1940's when Rock N Roll was born from Gospel music. Everything since then has all evolved in different branches from the Rock N Roll movement of the 1940's.

Music evolves its all subjective, I like some stuff from the 1940's and I like stuff from 2019. Is one better than the other? No it's all subjective.

I remember when my parents would say stuff like "music we listen to is timeless, they won't be playing that shit you listen to in 25 years on the radio". Guess what my parents were wrong.

Rock N Roll didn't last seven years Premy - the bubble burst before 1960.

By 1958 we got a taste of Link Wray and power chords - that's a revolution right there - traditional ROck n Roll was dead.

With respect to the radio - it's always played shit and will continue to do so thanks to the Harvard MBA's who took over the business probably before you were born.

[Premy]

Rock N Roll didn't last seven years Premy - the bubble burst before 1960.

By 1958 we got a taste of Link Wray and power chords - that's a revolution right there - traditional ROck n Roll was dead.

Yes but everything that came out after that evolved from Rock N Roll, the hippies like to claim that they were the revolutionaries ones but the revolution came a generation before them.

[Frodo]

I wasn't talking about music subjectively. I was talking about innovation - about actual music - you seem to be stuck on how the product is marketed.

Example - Beatles vs Rolling Stones. Which do you prefer is a subjective question.

But if we look at the facts - one of them changed music not only from a technical perspective but as a marketable product as well.

Merchandising, Albums consisting of all original material, Psychedelica, Heavy Metal [Helter Skelter].... and the list goes on.

I much prefer the Rolling Stones - but the Beatles were an infinitely better band when it comes to innovation and dare I say it wow factor.

The Rolling Stones rode a wave created by others - although they did it very well.

You aren't talking about actual music. You're talking about something different. Music is what you listen to, you're talking about the bits people study, break down, analyse, over analyse and then analyse again. That's not the best part of listening to music, trust me. I used to do the same thing.

Prime example, The only purpose a solo has is to get the guitarist laid and allow the singer to have a drink and fix his hair up. Punk doesn't have solos because the soap wax used to keep the singers hair in place takes weeks to die and they just drink whenever they want. Hence no solos.

[The Dunster]

I am sure you have posted this one before Dunster, but it still rings true today.. Scarily so..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP4wsURn3rw

Exactly.

[Frodo]

I am sure you have posted this one before Dunster, but it still rings true today.. Scarily so..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP4wsURn3rw

Nowadays you don't need to have a record deal to get your music out there. Between YouTube and Band camp anything can find its way into public.

But Mumble rap came straight from Band Camp so maybe it's not all that bad having it filtered by Execs, lol

[The Dunster]

You aren't talking about actual music. You're talking about something different. Music is what you listen to, you're talking about the bits people study, break down, analyse, over analyse and then analyse again. That's not the best part of listening to music, trust me. I used to do the same thing.

Prime example, The only purpose a solo has is to get the guitarist laid and allow the singer to have a drink and fix his hair up. Punk doesn't have solos because the soap wax used to keep the singers hair in place takes weeks to die and they just drink whenever they want. Hence no solos.

This is a joke right ? No solos in Punk music - pullllllllllllleassssssssssssssssse.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcBRcSLyFlQ

[plague]

Yeah but Maroon 5 is playing the Superbowl.........in Atlanta of all places, so yeah music is dead anyway.

[The Dunster]

Nowadays you don't need to have a record deal to get your music out there. Between YouTube and Band camp anything can find its way into public.

But Mumble rap came straight from Band Camp so maybe it's not all that bad having it filtered by Execs, lol

Bands used to get their music out there by actually performing it live, building a reputation / following then recording it.

These days the opportunities for new bands to perform live and actually make money from it are all but gone.

There's a dollar to be made in publishing but that's pretty much it now days. Even session works completely farked now with the likes of pro-tools and so on putting musicians out of work.

Do you really want an industry of Kanye's ?

[The Dunster]

Yeah but Maroon 5 is playing the Superbowl.........in Atlanta of all places, so yeah music is dead anyway.

Sad thing is they have had a career spanning 25 years now - which tells us all we need to know about the state of the music industry.

[Frodo]

This is a joke right ? No solos in Punk music - pullllllllllllleassssssssssssssssse.




https://youtu.be/emGri7i8Y2Y

Much better.

Not to mention Bayside, a Wilhelm Scream and Four Year Strong.

Gotta read my posts before you get your knickers in a knot Dunster.

[The Dunster]

https://youtu.be/emGri7i8Y2Y

Much better.

Not to mention Bayside, a Wilhelm Scream and Four Year Strong.

Gotta read my posts before you get your knickers in a knot Dunster.

Subjectively speaking - this is ****ing terrible.

1st opinion of the day.

[Bon]

Is Sum41 punk though? I woulda thought (once again) pop masquerading as sickly-sweet sugar punk?
Then again, next we will be saying that Avril Lavigne was considered punk too..

[The Dunster]

Is Sum41 punk though? I woulda thought (once again) pop masquerading as sickly-sweet sugar punk?
Then again, next we will be saying that Avril Lavigne was considered punk too..

This is the result of what Frank Zappa talked about in the video you posted Bon.

I think I'd be horrified to hear what sort of music Frodo was subjected to by his parents.

[Premy]

Is Sum41 punk though? I woulda thought (once again) pop masquerading as sickly-sweet sugar punk?
Then again, next we will be saying that Avril Lavigne was considered punk too..

Sum 41 is definitely Punk.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aUultIb2pPc

[Premy]

These days the opportunities for new bands to perform live and actually make money from it are all but gone.
Yeah this statement proves how out of touch and fossilized you are. The Live Music scene in Australia is alive and well and thriving.

[Frodo]

Is Sum41 punk though? I woulda thought (once again) pop masquerading as sickly-sweet sugar punk?
Then again, next we will be saying that Avril Lavigne was considered punk too..




This is the result of what Frank Zappa talked about in the video you posted Bon.

I think I'd be horrified to hear what sort of music Frodo was subjected to by his parents.


Firstly, read my posts. I was joking about the solos thing. I then doubled down on the joke and you still didn't get it Dunster. Stop getting so worked up over something as trivial as music. What music did your parents make you listen to that made you hate music so much?



And Bon, you get a similar response to what Premy got. Punk music has nothing to do with the punk movement anymore. It started out linked with the punk scene and when it died the music continued and evolved.

[Frodo]

Yeah this statement proves how out of touch and fossilized you are. The Live Music scene in Australia is alive and well and thriving.

Agreed.

[sammydog]

Yeah this statement proves how out of touch and fossilized you are. The Live Music scene in Australia is alive and well and thriving.

Actually Premy, having played in bands for 25 years, the live scene is shit now for up and coming bands compared to what it was.

The live original scene unfortunately peaked in the early to mid 90's. The days when most pubs were packed with punters watching original music. Back then there was limitless opportunities to play, regardless of genre, and people got out and supported it. Most of the venues from back then are long gone and what remains is hardly open to original bands. People stopped supporting, pokies and cover bands took over. And don't get me started on the Pay to Play system of band comps.

We even got payed to play back then. I remember nights playing 2-3 gigs a night running from venue to venue.

Yes there are good bands now, but it is a lot harder for bands to get regular gigs, let alone get any decent money for it.

Is the music better or worse now, thats all semantics and open to the listener. I won't buy into that.

[StannyCFCJET]

Is Sum41 punk though? I woulda thought (once again) pop masquerading as sickly-sweet sugar punk?
Then again, next we will be saying that Avril Lavigne was considered punk too..


More pop punk or alt rock. They have strong metal roots

[goaliepersempre]

Well tickets are book for the David Hasselhoff gig here in switzerland in october.... just for the laughs.... (did you know its because of him the berlin wall came down) ive been looking for freedom!!!!! :wacko::wacko:

[goaliepersempre]

Yeah mate.. I know it is, there are obvious similarities, but to me it shouldn't be labeled the same..

If you want some hardcore, get to the Small Ballroom on 28th of Jan to see Terror play..
Beeen, you getting to this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O_Cd9a_Wu0

TERROR!!!! get to it

[sammydog]

Well tickets are book for the David Hasselhoff gig here in switzerland in october.... just for the laughs.... (did you know its because of him the berlin wall came down) ive been looking for freedom!!!!! :wacko::wacko:

Saw him in Newcastle a few years ago. Was a surprisingly good night, not sure if it was a music or comedy show. He will take the p!ss out of himself more than any audience member ever could.

Mind you, his "Australian Medley" included 500 Miles by the Proclaimers.

[plague]

Actually Premy, having played in bands for 25 years, the live scene is shit now for up and coming bands compared to what it was.


whilst its true that the traditional live music scene isnt what it once was, id argue its 'easier' for artists to get their music out there these days.

Streaming services, social media platforms have put a lot of power back into the artists hands vs being up against suits in charge of radio stations/record labels/venues. This prob started with JJJ Unearthed back in the day and has powered since then.

also, a lot of artists who have received enough exposure are now taking on their own live gigs.
Mrs Plague was recently involved with a band booking a Newcastle venue, they fronted the cash, negotiated ticket sales and bar sales. The band took all the risk, but backed themselves to sell the joint out (which they did) and it was an extremely lucrative nights work for them.

I went and saw Chvrches the other night at the Opera House. again, someone thought outside the box and put them in a venue that not only was iconic, but showcased their sound amazingly. No support band, and there was a buzzer that went off outside to let everyone know the gig was starting. It was very different to anything id been to regarding live music.
Not sure who was more blown away by that gig ever happening, the crowd or the band. But it worked.

Look at the bands playing the freaking Vineyards these days. Just bizarre.

The landscape has changed, but what industry hasnt in the last 20 years? Bands are dealing with what pretty much all of us do now, adapt or perish.

[The Dunster]

Agreed.

Name a licenced venue in Newcastle where new bands regularly get a chance to play original material in front of an audience for money.

It used to be a case that if you wanted to play somewhere you could - now it's near impossible to get a gig anywhere decent - to be able to actually run a 100w Plexi or a 59 Bassman and so on - forget it - venues just don't allow that type of thing anymore.

[The Dunster]

whilst its true that the traditional live music scene isnt what it once was, id argue its 'easier' for artists to get their music out there these days.

Streaming services, social media platforms have put a lot of power back into the artists hands vs being up against suits in charge of radio stations/record labels/venues. This prob started with JJJ Unearthed back in the day and has powered since then.

also, a lot of artists who have received enough exposure are now taking on their own live gigs.
Mrs Plague was recently involved with a band booking a Newcastle venue, they fronted the cash, negotiated ticket sales and bar sales. The band took all the risk, but backed themselves to sell the joint out (which they did) and it was an extremely lucrative nights work for them.

I went and saw Chvrches the other night at the Opera House. again, someone thought outside the box and put them in a venue that not only was iconic, but showcased their sound amazingly. No support band, and there was a buzzer that went off outside to let everyone know the gig was starting. It was very different to anything id been to regarding live music.
Not sure who was more blown away by that gig ever happening, the crowd or the band. But it worked.

Look at the bands playing the freaking Vineyards these days. Just bizarre.

The landscape has changed, but what industry hasnt in the last 20 years? Bands are dealing with what pretty much all of us do now, adapt or perish.

it's easier to get it out for sure - it's not so easy making a living from it.

One band out of how many ? What you described used to be common place - now it's the exception to the rule.

There's a bit left as far as publishing rights go but even then the artists don't own the streaming services - and the likes of them are slowly but surely taking a bigger slice of the action as well.

[sammydog]

whilst its true that the traditional live music scene isnt what it once was, id argue its 'easier' for artists to get their music out there these days.

Streaming services, social media platforms have put a lot of power back into the artists hands vs being up against suits in charge of radio stations/record labels/venues. This prob started with JJJ Unearthed back in the day and has powered since then.

also, a lot of artists who have received enough exposure are now taking on their own live gigs.
Mrs Plague was recently involved with a band booking a Newcastle venue, they fronted the cash, negotiated ticket sales and bar sales. The band took all the risk, but backed themselves to sell the joint out (which they did) and it was an extremely lucrative nights work for them.

I went and saw Chvrches the other night at the Opera House. again, someone thought outside the box and put them in a venue that not only was iconic, but showcased their sound amazingly. No support band, and there was a buzzer that went off outside to let everyone know the gig was starting. It was very different to anything id been to regarding live music.
Not sure who was more blown away by that gig ever happening, the crowd or the band. But it worked.

Look at the bands playing the freaking Vineyards these days. Just bizarre.

The landscape has changed, but what industry hasnt in the last 20 years? Bands are dealing with what pretty much all of us do now, adapt or perish.

Got to be heard live as well, thats why bands form. Not to put stuff on spotify in the hope it gets found.

yes its easier to get the music out, but a lot harder for a new band to get gigs and hone their stage craft and band chemistry.

The example you cite wouldn't be your usual new band trying to get a start. You are talking bands who have climbed a few rungs up the ladder. The fact remains, its pretty grim for new bands to get out and just play.


Name a licenced venue in Newcastle where new bands regularly get a chance to play original material in front of an audience for money.

It used to be a case that if you wanted to play somewhere you could - now it's near impossible to get a gig anywhere decent - to be able to actually run a 100w Plexi or a 59 Bassman and so on - forget it - venues just don't allow that type of thing anymore.

The key in there is NEW. I know of a few friends original bands that command good $$$$ both in and out of newcastle, but that is not the norm. They have sizeable followings and have been around a long time.

I have to attenuate the crap out of all my amps to play in most venues. Was never an issue when I bought my gear and if anything, I've downsized.

[The Dunster]

This weekend we have Icehouse, The Sunny Boys, The Church, Do Re Mi, and Mental as Anything playing By the C in Newcastle.

Would have been a good line up if it was still 1981. Today it's just a reminder of how completely farked the live scene is for up and coming bands in this town.

Plague should go and have a chat to these guys and tell them how much better things are now than they were back in 1981 - Hopefully he doesn't get Jeremy Oxley on a bad day.

[plague]

The example you cite wouldn't be your usual new band trying to get a start. You are talking bands who have climbed a few rungs up the ladder. The fact remains, its pretty grim for new bands to get out and just play.

oh for sure that was my point. But the band im talking about were not so long ago playing pubs on open mic nights and living out of their car.
all i was saying is that the pathway has changed, but there is still a pathway.

i just read that Amy Shark is playing Margaret Court arena soon, didnt she start out on youtube or something?
I had no idea they played music gigs there, but here we are in 2019, things have changed.

[plague]

This weekend we have Icehouse, The Sunny Boys, The Church, Do Re Mi, and Mental as Anything playing By the C in Newcastle.

Would have been a good line up if it was still 1981. Today it's just a reminder of how completely farked the live scene is for up and coming bands in this town.

Plague should go and have a chat to these guys and tell them how much better things are now than they were back in 1981 - Hopefully he doesn't get Jeremy Oxley on a bad day.

yep, and they've just announced The Drop festival to coincide with Surfest, and Up Down festival is coming in March (from the same people that put on This/That).

There are plenty of chances to see 'new' live music in Newcastle.
But i'd imagine theres still a few people out there searching for the Jolly Roger and Bel Air hotels on their GPS because 'thats how we did it in the old days'.


Ive no idea if "things are much better now".

but i aint the one living in the past either.

[The Dunster]

yep, and they've just announced The Drop festival to coincide with Surfest, and Up Down festival is coming in March (from the same people that put on This/That).

There are plenty of chances to see 'new' live music in Newcastle.
But i'd imagine theres still a few people out there searching for the Jolly Roger and Bel Air hotels on their GPS because 'thats how we did it in the old days'.


Ive no idea if "things are much better now".

but i aint the one living in the past either.

I'm not living in the past. Far from it - I want these bands to **** off and let the kids have a go.

[plague]

I'm not living in the past. Far from it - I want these bands to **** off and let the kids have a go.

not saying 'you' are specifically.



but



Here are all the bands/musicians you talked about today:

The Saints
Radio Birdman.
GBH.
Sex Pistols.
Stooges.
Dead Kennedys.
Velvet Underground.
Joy Division.
Eddie Van Halen.
Hendrix.
Link Wray.
Nirvana.
The Spice Girls.
King Crimson.
Mudhoney.
Neil Young.
Nirvana.
Rolling Stones.
Beatles.
Frank Zappa.
Kanye (negatively...i think).
Maroon 5 (negatively...i think).
Sum 41 (def negatively).
Icehouse.
Sunnyboys.
The Church.
Do Re Mi.
Mental as Anything.

The two 'newest' ones were Kanye and Sum 41 and it didnt sound like you liked either.

You're a Black Sabbath reference away from the 'old man yells at clouds' meme from automatically popping up.

[The Dunster]

not saying 'you' are specifically.



but



Here are all the bands/musicians you talked about today:

The Saints
Radio Birdman.
GBH.
Sex Pistols.
Stooges.
Dead Kennedys.
Velvet Underground.
Joy Division.
Eddie Van Halen.
Hendrix.
Link Wray.
Nirvana.
The Spice Girls.
King Crimson.
Mudhoney.
Neil Young.
Nirvana.
Rolling Stones.
Beatles.
Frank Zappa.
Kanye (negatively...i think).
Maroon 5 (negatively...i think).
Sum 41 (def negatively).
Icehouse.
Sunnyboys.
The Church.
Do Re Mi.
Mental as Anything.

The two 'newest' ones were Kanye and Sum 41 and it didnt sound like you liked either.

You're a Black Sabbath reference away from the 'old man yells at clouds' meme from automatically popping up.

I wish I could name someone mainstream these days that was innovative - but I don't think they even exist - and if they did the Harvard MBAs would soon put them into line.

If music [As an opportunity for new bands / performers] today is so great then how can you explain so many bands from many years past still being commercially relevant ?

The answer is simple - it's very tough to break into this business now days - tougher than it has ever been.

People don't get exposed to anything new so they go with what they already know [which is pathetic]

The people controlling the industry don't take risks - and that's killing innovation.

[Frodo]

Name a licenced venue in Newcastle where new bands regularly get a chance to play original material in front of an audience for money.

It used to be a case that if you wanted to play somewhere you could - now it's near impossible to get a gig anywhere decent - to be able to actually run a 100w Plexi or a 59 Bassman and so on - forget it - venues just don't allow that type of thing anymore.

The entire conversation was that Premy and I thought the scene was thriving and you thought it was dying. Newcastle having no night life hasn't affected the ability for new bands to come through. They have found different ways to build a following and are playing gigs in Melbourne or Sydney. So I'll admit that Newcastle has a terrible live scene, but the band's are still coming through ok.

[Frodo]

If music [As an opportunity for new bands / performers] today is so great then how can you explain so many bands from many years past still being commercially relevant ?

The answer is simple - it's very tough to break into this business now days - tougher than it has ever been.

People don't get exposed to anything new so they go with what they already know [which is pathetic]

The people controlling the industry don't take risks - and that's killing innovation.

That's completely wrong. The reason why old bands are so popular and bankable for promoters is because the people with the most expendable income are the ones still pinning for the good ol days.

Young people can't afford to go to gigs anymore. They've been priced out by 30-40 yr olds paying overs for big names to fly over from the US.

Add in the fact that those bands would also charge less to play because they are well past their peak and promotors would be stupid to bring out any smaller bands. Why risk it when you don't need to.

You're blaming the wrong people for this. It's people who have stood still and can't find any new music to enjoy that are killing the scene more than music execs making sound financial decisions.

[Frodo]

I know a local Newcastle band doing alright for themselves. Plenty of gigs happening, they are doing well on JJJ Unearthed. As far as I can tell they are living the dream.

I'm sure they are plenty of bands struggling, but I'm.also sure it's not 100% down to the decisions made by people in suits.

[plague]

If music [As an opportunity for new bands / performers] today is so great then how can you explain so many bands from many years past still being commercially relevant ?

The answer is simple - it's very tough to break into this business now days - tougher than it has ever been.

People don't get exposed to anything new so they go with what they already know [which is pathetic]

The people controlling the industry don't take risks - and that's killing innovation.

firstly im not sure where you are getting that im saying the industry is 'great'. Im saying the scene is different, and there are success stories. Are there more as a % of bands out there trying? I dont know, and i dont know if theres any way to answer that.

People as creatures of habits? thats human nature mate. i dont know if peoples taste in music changes any more or less than their taste in partners, movies, politics, cars, colours, media outlets and sports. id argue thats its never been easier to discover new music. 20 years ago you needed an alternative radio station, record store and maybe the Big Day Out to see new things. If you wanted to try anything new you needed to pay for a ticket or buy the CD. These days you can legally stream for free and have access to literally billions of songs. They will even suggest songs and artists that you may like based on your tastes. You can listen to it 24/7 via any media device. You can lead a bloke to spotify but you cant make him isten etc etc etc. Theres no way in the world it was that easy back in the day. No way at all.

and who are the people 'controlling the industry' you speak of?
because the artist themselves have never had more power than before. they decide when to drop new music, they can put out one song at a time whenever they feel like it. i saw a protest song from a popular band pop up the other day just because they felt like having their say. You see rappers and their 'diss tracks' all the time. Most artists dont have old school record contracts anymore like the old days. Sure there are manufactured bands like One Direction who are as corporate as it gets, but werent the Monkees the exact same thing?


A bunch of artists didnt like the Spotify and Apple music deal so they started their own damn streaming platform.
Taylor Swift didnt like the Spotify deal so she went exclusive with Apple until Spotify ponied up.
Artists are making more business decisions than ever. again, sure there will be hangers on who make money off it, but again, back in the day Sony stopped George Michael putting out music. You think that goes down like that these days? (and sorry not sorry about the George Michael/going down remark).


As for no innovation. again, thats entirely personal, but Bruno Mars fans probably werent alive when Michael Jackson was popular (or alive). They dont give a rats if old folk wanna tell them its been done before.

[StannyCFCJET]

oh for sure that was my point. But the band im talking about were not so long ago playing pubs on open mic nights and living out of their car.
all i was saying is that the pathway has changed, but there is still a pathway.

i just read that Amy Shark is playing Margaret Court arena soon, didnt she start out on youtube or something?
I had no idea they played music gigs there, but here we are in 2019, things have changed.

Amy Shark is awesome

[The Dunster]

firstly im not sure where you are getting that im saying the industry is 'great'. Im saying the scene is different, and there are success stories. Are there more as a % of bands out there trying? I dont know, and i dont know if theres any way to answer that.

People as creatures of habits? thats human nature mate. i dont know if peoples taste in music changes any more or less than their taste in partners, movies, politics, cars, colours, media outlets and sports. id argue thats its never been easier to discover new music. 20 years ago you needed an alternative radio station, record store and maybe the Big Day Out to see new things. If you wanted to try anything new you needed to pay for a ticket or buy the CD. These days you can legally stream for free and have access to literally billions of songs. They will even suggest songs and artists that you may like based on your tastes. You can listen to it 24/7 via any media device. You can lead a bloke to spotify but you cant make him isten etc etc etc. Theres no way in the world it was that easy back in the day. No way at all.

and who are the people 'controlling the industry' you speak of?
because the artist themselves have never had more power than before. they decide when to drop new music, they can put out one song at a time whenever they feel like it. i saw a protest song from a popular band pop up the other day just because they felt like having their say. You see rappers and their 'diss tracks' all the time. Most artists dont have old school record contracts anymore like the old days. Sure there are manufactured bands like One Direction who are as corporate as it gets, but werent the Monkees the exact same thing?


A bunch of artists didnt like the Spotify and Apple music deal so they started their own damn streaming platform.
Taylor Swift didnt like the Spotify deal so she went exclusive with Apple until Spotify ponied up.
Artists are making more business decisions than ever. again, sure there will be hangers on who make money off it, but again, back in the day Sony stopped George Michael putting out music. You think that goes down like that these days? (and sorry not sorry about the George Michael/going down remark).


As for no innovation. again, thats entirely personal, but Bruno Mars fans probably werent alive when Michael Jackson was popular (or alive). They dont give a rats if old folk wanna tell them its been done before.

What was the George Michael situation ? I can't recall it.

[Frodo]

Amy Shark is awesome

This isn't hate, I actually see it as a compliment. Amy Shark isn't my sort of thing but I get the appeal.

To me, she sounds like she's writing music for Taylor Swift that Taylor doesn't actually want to perform. Like what Sia does. It's catchy, not offensive and easy on the ears and everytime I hear her new stuff I picture Taylor singing it.

[Frodo]

What was the George Michael situation ? I can't recall it.

Was this around the Toilet incident?

[The Dunster]

That's completely wrong. The reason why old bands are so popular and bankable for promoters is because the people with the most expendable income are the ones still pinning for the good ol days.

Young people can't afford to go to gigs anymore. They've been priced out by 30-40 yr olds paying overs for big names to fly over from the US.

Add in the fact that those bands would also charge less to play because they are well past their peak and promotors would be stupid to bring out any smaller bands. Why risk it when you don't need to.

You're blaming the wrong people for this. It's people who have stood still and can't find any new music to enjoy that are killing the scene more than music execs making sound financial decisions.

We agree. It's because the old artists are lower risk. The reason they are low risk is because nobody has brought in an alternative.

Google "Mere Exposure Effect". That will explain how risk is avoided by the execs.

[plague]

Amy Shark is awesome

how did you hear about her?

[The Dunster]

This isn't hate, I actually see it as a compliment. Amy Shark isn't my sort of thing but I get the appeal.

To me, she sounds like she's writing music for Taylor Swift that Taylor doesn't actually want to perform. Like what Sia does. It's catchy, not offensive and easy on the ears and everytime I hear her new stuff I picture Taylor singing it.

Amy Shark is a good example. I just listened to one songon youtube - no idea who she was

Song : I said Hi -

It's in E Flat Minor so Taylor Swift's completely no chance to play it with her lack of musicianship. [Unless the capo comes out]

Also, it even has a bridge which is very unusual these days.

However, Amy Shark is 32 years old - why did it take so long - musically most people are finished by the time they hit 30.

She's a pretty looking girl as well which doesn't hurt in this day and age. [or any other I guess].

[plague]

What was the George Michael situation ? I can't recall it.

he wanted out of his contract because Sony was rejecting too much of his music. Even though he felt he was busting his ass* writing songs he had to give Sony 8 records worth of content that Sony liked, not what the artist wanted to release.

He literally 'went on strike' and Sony wouldnt let him release any new music.

he lost millions on the court case trying to get out of the deal, then signed a buyout through Virgin records to get music out.


then, oddly enough, ended up signing a new deal with Sony years later but this one was massively in his favour including royalties on his back catalog, which he never got before.

stuff just doesnt go on like that anymore.




*again, sorry not sorry.

[plague]

2. Where's the ****ing Bridge ? Seriously, is this how far music's regressed.

Ive heard you make this criticism a few times about certain artists.

but earlier on you asked for innovation, yet seem to enjoy songs sticking to a formula.

shouldnt songs just....be? why do they 'need' certain elements?

[StannyCFCJET]

how did you hear about her?

Not sure if troll. But her song with Mark Hoppus

[StannyCFCJET]

This isn't hate, I actually see it as a compliment. Amy Shark isn't my sort of thing but I get the appeal.

To me, she sounds like she's writing music for Taylor Swift that Taylor doesn't actually want to perform. Like what Sia does. It's catchy, not offensive and easy on the ears and everytime I hear her new stuff I picture Taylor singing it.

I normally hate that stuff but her stuff is different to the rest for me

[plague]

Not sure if troll. But her song with Mark Hoppus

no not a troll. Just wondering if you discovered her through 'new' channels like spotify/youtube.
i dont know much of her music (apart from friends telling me they are voting hottest 100). I know the 'i said hi' song.

but, you just told me about a song with mark Hoppus, so i jumped online and listened to it.

there you go, new media spreading the gospel of music.



(i didnt dig the song - not my thang).

[Premy]

I don't get exposed to anything new so I go with what I already know [which is pathetic]
Just thought I would fix this part for you so you understand why you are turning into a fossil.

[The Dunster]

Ive heard you make this criticism a few times about certain artists.

but earlier on you asked for innovation, yet seem to enjoy songs sticking to a formula.

shouldnt songs just....be? why do they 'need' certain elements?

It actually has one Plague - I retyped my response after I played it on guitar.

Not all songs need a bridge - but these days it's something that tends to not exist at all - it can work but it's not exactly innovative to avoid them either.

Songs tend to be very flat without them.

[The Dunster]

I normally hate that stuff but her stuff is different to the rest for me

It is different Stanny - it actually shows a level of musicianship seriously lacking in a lot of mainstream efforts.

Her voice is also unusual because it appears she may not be auto tuned - but I can't see that lasting too long - eventually everyone uses the auto tune.

[The Dunster]

Just thought I would fix this part for you so you understand why you are turning into a fossil.

I'm still waiting for you to list all the licenced Newcastle venues which accept up and coming bands playing original material Premy.

[The Dunster]

no not a troll. Just wondering if you discovered her through 'new' channels like spotify/youtube.
i dont know much of her music (apart from friends telling me they are voting hottest 100). I know the 'i said hi' song.

but, you just told me about a song with mark Hoppus, so i jumped online and listened to it.

there you go, new media spreading the gospel of music.



(i didnt dig the song - not my thang).

As soon as I read your question Plague I laughed - because I was on the you tube looking her up .

[Premy]

I'm still waiting for you to list all the licenced Newcastle venues which accept up and coming bands playing original material Premy.

The Orana
The Small Ballroom
The Lass O'Gowrie
The Cambridge
Bar on the Hill
Greenroof
The Mark
Hamilton Station
Street Feast Markets
Honeysuckle
The Wicko
Croatian Sports Club

Edit: that's for bands.

King Street
Finnigans
Argle
Greenroof
Sydney Junction

They have new DJs coming through all the time.

[The Dunster]

The Orana
The Small Ballroom
The Lass O'Gowrie
The Cambridge
Bar on the Hill
Greenroof
The Mark
Hamilton Station
Street Feast Markets
Honeysuckle
The Wicko
Croatian Sports Club

Edit: that's for bands.

King Street
Finnigans
Argle
Greenroof
Sydney Junction

They have new DJs coming through all the time.

Thanks Premy. That is good to know.

It's more comprehensive than I thought it would be - I might check some out.

Not the Orana though, it's only been 30 years since I was last there - might leave it for another ten or so - or has it been cleaned up ?

[Premy]

The live music scene is alive and well.
Tonight if you get yourself to the Station Hotel you can go see a US band called Harms Way play supported by a band from Tamworth.
Go check it out.

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R04Iqj5MRPs

Holy Shit. That is pretty full on.

[sammydog]

The Orana
The Small Ballroom
The Lass O'Gowrie
The Cambridge
Bar on the Hill
Greenroof
The Mark
Hamilton Station
Street Feast Markets
Honeysuckle
The Wicko
Croatian Sports Club

Edit: that's for bands.

King Street
Finnigans
Argle
Greenroof
Sydney Junction

They have new DJs coming through all the time.

When we talk about up and coming acts, are people talking about new local original music scene being newcastle bands, or new(wish) national talent that has gotten to the level to tour small venues nationally?

Id still argue that the scene is a shadow of its former self. Many of those venues listed don't play local music to the extent that venues used todo. Venues used to have live original acts up to 5 nights a week, if you were a local band you could easily play every week (more if really keen).

You got paid for it. Punters came out to watch and pubs were packed.

Just in the city centre we have lost to local bands (and this is off the top of my head from the 90's). these venues used to cater mainly for live music and I haven't included a lot of other venues that were primarily cover bands. By 2000 a lot of this list had disappeared or the writing was on the wall. Others went through a change to attract different clients.

The Ambassador
The Family
Hunter On Hunter
Bellevue
Morrow Park Bowlo
Empire
JR (mix of original and live bands, original stuff was generally mid week)
The Star (Still miss the room downstairs)
National Park Bowling Club
Newcastle Workers (small auditorium)
Lucky Country (used to be a shocker lugging gear upstairs, as was the JR)
Newcastle Leagues
The Basement (cant remember the pub across from the police station, always had great Jazz, Blues and Funk)
Newcastle Airforce Club (was where the Porkers got their start)
Tattersalls Club
SJ's (like the JR, original stuff was welcome during the week)

Similarly to the above venues, you could go to Maitland and there was a heap of venues close to each other.

While my memories of the 90's music scene were awesome, many older muso's tell me that in the late 70's and into the 80's there was even more venue choice to play at so I guess the venue availability and perception of the health of the scene depends on when you came into it.

[The Dunster]

When we talk about up and coming acts, are people talking about new local original music scene being newcastle bands, or new(wish) national talent that has gotten to the level to tour small venues nationally?

Id still argue that the scene is a shadow of its former self. Many of those venues listed don't play local music to the extent that venues used todo. Venues used to have live original acts up to 5 nights a week, if you were a local band you could easily play every week (more if really keen).

You got paid for it. Punters came out to watch and pubs were packed.

Just in the city centre we have lost to local bands (and this is off the top of my head from the 90's). these venues used to cater mainly for live music and I haven't included a lot of other venues that were primarily cover bands. By 2000 a lot of this list had disappeared or the writing was on the wall. Others went through a change to attract different clients.

The Ambassador
The Family
Hunter On Hunter
Bellevue
Morrow Park Bowlo
Empire
JR (mix of original and live bands, original stuff was generally mid week)
The Star (Still miss the room downstairs)
National Park Bowling Club
Newcastle Workers (small auditorium)
Lucky Country (used to be a shocker lugging gear upstairs, as was the JR)
Newcastle Leagues
The Basement (cant remember the pub across from the police station, always had great Jazz, Blues and Funk)
Newcastle Airforce Club (was where the Porkers got their start)
Tattersalls Club
SJ's (like the JR, original stuff was welcome during the week)

Similarly to the above venues, you could go to Maitland and there was a heap of venues close to each other.

While my memories of the 90's music scene were awesome, many older muso's tell me that in the late 70's and into the 80's there was even more venue choice to play at so I guess the venue availability and perception of the health of the scene depends on when you came into it.

We are talking about new local / up and coming local / Newy Bands.

Everyone else is talking about national or international talent that has gotten to the level to tour small venues nationally.

[sammydog]

We are talking about new local / up and coming local / Newy Bands.

Everyone else is talking about national or international talent that has gotten to the level to tour small venues nationally.

Thats what I thought.

Newcastle has always been good (and hopefully remains) for national and international talent touring small(ish) venues.

Emerging local music, while not dead, is on life support. Once the Lass goes I don't know where will pick up the slack.

[Bon]

The Orana - I thought it closed? haha
The Small Ballroom - True, but only if you are established.
The Lass O'Gowrie - True, for now. New owners coming in, rumours of making it another generic "Lucky" style pub.
The Cambridge - True, but not unless you are already established. The days of having heaps of original live bands (usually heavier) are well over there.
Bar on the Hill - Once again, is it still even open? My uni days are well behind me.
Greenroof - Covers.
The Mark - Covers.
Hamilton Station - True
Street Feast Markets - Originals? Very rarely, but it can happen..
Honeysuckle - Never originals. Only covers.
The Wicko - True, but still hard for up-and-coming bands to play.
Croatian Sports Club - Once again, if its open. Or you book it and organise for yourself.


Whilst your list is correct that it does have live music Premy, most of those venues are for big name bands, established original bands, or covers bands.. Not necessarily what Dunster was talking about. Just around me in Newy East, you can see live music at a heap of places, but none of it is original really..
Brewery - covers or djs
Customs - acoustic covers or djs
Bar Petit - acoustic covers
Great Northern - covers and djs
Grain Store - covers on a Sunday
Diggers Club - pokie music
Cranchor - I don't know if they still have music at all? I'm sure some of the Azzurri fanboys can fill me in there..

The Grand has jazz on Tuesday nights I believe? I haven't been up yet, but I'm pretty sure its a mix of covers and originals..
The Lass and Hammo Staysh are probably the only two places on that list that will genuinely give local, unknown, original talent a go.. (Without them being selected to open for a bigger well-known band)

Most music in venues in Newcastle these days are run by the two major cover-band agencies in town. They do the bookings months in advance, and generally they decide who plays and what gets played.

I've played in a lot of those venues you listed (with an original band, and with covers..) The "scene" always changes over time, of course it does, but that doesn't mean its changed for the better.
Without overthinking I would say the metal scene in town is non existent now compared to the early 2000's when I was playing in it - Which isn't true - But the only reason I think that is cause back then I was immersed in it. Playing or going to shows 3 nights a week hanging out and getting pissed, whereas now, I haven't been to a local show in years.. It can all come down to perspective and awareness..
A lot of the sort of venues that used to give bands a start aren't around anymore (Palais, Hunter on Hunter, The Loft, Apache, etc) or have changed their stance on it (Cambo, the Lucky).

I guess what I'm trying to sum up (and doing it poorly) is that live music in town is well available, however live original "getting a start" is not. You are both correct.

p.s. Don't even need to mention DJ's.. We've opened up and been through that mess argument before..

[The Dunster]

Not exactly the Hunter on Hunter or National Park Bowling CLub in the 90's but Orana as Premy mentioned seems to be doing ok.

https://oranahotel.com.au/blogs/live-music-entertainment

[idontwannaplaywithhowey]

The live music scene is alive and well.
Tonight if you get yourself to the Station Hotel you can go see a US band called Harms Way play supported by a band from Tamworth.
Go check it out.

The Hamo Staysh is great for alternative (lot of punk stuff mainly)..
Pretty sure i saw Strike Anywhere are playing there in 2019 too (if you like melodic punk its a sure fire winner)

A coffee/shop tattoo joint in Maitland (The Cabin Collective) has a show on soon as well, might offer another alternate option.
1597

Oh and the Grand Junction Hotel in ol Maitland town does live music by the bucketful...
Owners are selling up though, so that could all change.

[The Dunster]

The Hamo Staysh is great for alternative (lot of punk stuff mainly)..
Pretty sure i saw Strike Anywhere are playing there in 2019 too (if you like melodic punk its a sure fire winner)

A coffee/shop tattoo joint in Maitland (The Cabin Collective) has a show on soon as well, might offer another alternate option.
1597

Oh and the Grand Junction Hotel in ol Maitland town does live music by the bucketful...
Owners are selling up though, so that could all change.

Cheers. Might get down to the Grand Junction Hotel - I checked out some videos,and saw some familiar faces.

Strike Anywhere are from the USA, have been around for almost 20 years, the members of the band are over 40 years old.

This is the problem - where are the new local up and coming acts getting an opportunity to ply their trade ?

[idontwannaplaywithhowey]

Cheers. Might get down to the Grand Junction Hotel - I checked out some videos,and saw some familiar faces.

Strike Anywhere are from the USA, have been around for almost 20 years, the members of the band are over 40 years old.

This is the problem - where are the new local up and coming acts getting an opportunity to ply their trade ?

Oh yea, the Strike Anywhere statement wasn't a suggestion they are Aussie, young, or up and coming, just letting people know who might be interested.
But the Hamo Staysh have local gigs 3-4 times per week.

[StannyCFCJET]

Trophy Eyes at the cambridge was insane

[The Dunster]

Trophy Eyes at the cambridge was insane

Finally, an example of a young local band. Well done Stanny.

We need more of them.

[boz-monaut]

it really is worth looking back at the Hottest 100 from many years ago (especially for cunce as old as me who can remember them back to when you used to have to post them in) and comparing the winning songs from back then to the winners from today

some absolute garbage has won the thing, especially back in the days that old cunce talk about as 'when it was good'

sanctimonious old farts my age acting like it's gone commercial and popular - it always bloody well was

crap like Arsehole by Dennis Leary, Zombie by the Cranberries, No Aphrodisiac by The Whitlams, ****ing Offspring have all come in No.1 for fuxake

commercial shit like Blind Melon, U2, Pearl Jam, Coolio, Everclear, Blink 182, Marilyn Manson, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Coldplay, Foo Fighters all made the top ten over those years

[StannyCFCJET]

it really is worth looking back at the Hottest 100 from many years ago (especially for cunce as old as me who can remember them back to when you used to have to post them in) and comparing the winning songs from back then to the winners from today

some absolute garbage has won the thing, especially back in the days that old cunce talk about as 'when it was good'

sanctimonious old farts my age acting like it's gone commercial and popular - it always bloody well was

crap like Arsehole by Dennis Leary, Zombie by the Cranberries, No Aphrodisiac by The Whitlams, ****ing Offspring have all come in No.1 for fuxake

commercial shit like Blind Melon, U2, Pearl Jam, Coolio, Everclear, Blink 182, Marilyn Manson, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Coldplay, Foo Fighters all made the top ten over those years

All I see is you naming alot of good artists not sure what the problem is

[boz-monaut]

exactly

[Frodo]

Complaining about the Hottest 100 winners just means you don't like popular music. It's a democracy, not a peer review. I very much dislike Ocean Alley, but they are the 2nd most played band on JJJ this year. Can't really complain with the result, it was the clear favourite.

[StannyCFCJET]

End of the day just turn off the radio put on spotify or ya phone and listen to your own music

[Negative Police]

Pretentious 100 is ok. Cant please everyone all the time.

ABC use it as a political stage to recruit young outraged lefties cry to over the latest facebook problems

[Frodo]

Pretentious 100 is ok. Cant please everyone all the time.

ABC use it as a political stage to recruit young outraged lefties cry to over the latest facebook problems

Or it's just a music poll? Actually, yes. It is just a music poll.

[The Dunster]

Two types of listeners. Those who listen to albums, those who listen to singles.

I'm in the album camp.

Most people are in the singles camp - and it's been that way for as long as I can remember.

[StannyCFCJET]

Two types of listeners. Those who listen to albums, those who listen to singles.

I'm in the album camp.

Most people are in the singles camp - and it's been that way for as long as I can remember.

Some people do both depending on how much they are into an Artist

[sammydog]

Two types of listeners. Those who listen to albums, those who listen to singles.

I'm in the album camp.

Most people are in the singles camp - and it's been that way for as long as I can remember.

Only reason to get a single is for the B-side, otherwise an album should be listened to from the start to finish, no shuffle.

[The Dunster]

Only reason to get a single is for the B-side, otherwise an album should be listened to from the start to finish, no shuffle.

Green Day - Good Riddance [Time of your Life] was originally released in 1994 as the B-side to Brain Stew.

Unfortunately they did a McCartney / Spector [Long and Winding Road] on the original version and ****ed it up with strings and other bullshit it didn't need in 1997


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVQW97RatAY

[plague]

I listened to the song that won hottest 100.
I'd never heard the song or the artist before.
I didnt like the song.
Is there something else to the artist that made this song popular?
Because for a one off song it doesn't exactly hit you with 'smells like reen spirit' type of emotions.

[StannyCFCJET]

I listened to the song that won hottest 100.
I'd never heard the song or the artist before.
I didnt like the song.
Is there something else to the artist that made this song popular?
Because for a one off song it doesn't exactly hit you with 'smells like reen spirit' type of emotions.

Apparently that artist is the second most played one of 2018 on JJJ

[plague]

actually looking back over the last 20 years of winners i can see in most cases why a particular song won.even if i didnt dig it personally, you could always see why people thought it was a good song.
It either had huge hooks like Muse, Franz Ferdinand or QOTA (yes, and even Jet).
or they were classic drunken singalong songs (Zombie, Wonderwall, Amazing, One crowded hour)
or it was during Powderfingers run of writing single after single that were so radio friendly you couldnt not get involved.


id contend that its only really fallen apart in the last few years, like the Rubens, Kendrick Lamar and Chet Faker, These were all pretty lame songs, but (esp in Kendricks case) it was to make up for previous snubs.

Hottest 100 is fast becoming like the Oscars, where as people are more concerned about voting for the 'right' song vs voting for the song they like the most. You only have to see by everyone rushing to post their votes on social media. in the old days no one knew you voted for Offspring, and today even if you thought it was the dopest song ever written, you are now scared of peoples reactions if you vote for it.


im convinced this is how Tame Impala became popular. Because their music is garbage, but man oh man ive never heard from anyone hating on them in public.

[plague]

Apparently that artist is the second most played one of 2018 on JJJ

but isnt it nowadays a self fulfilling prophecy?
Triple J says its cool, fans then want to look cool, so yell really loudly "yes i think its cool too" then Triple J hears the fans saying its cool, so then they play it to keep the fans happy.

[The Dunster]

I listened to the song that won hottest 100.
I'd never heard the song or the artist before.
I didnt like the song.
Is there something else to the artist that made this song popular?
Because for a one off song it doesn't exactly hit you with 'smells like reen spirit' type of emotions.

They are very good musicians with a great vocalist. Try this one Plague.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubAbewMTUUw

[StannyCFCJET]

Problem majority of hottest 100 people havent been exposed to music that isnt normally found on Australian Radio. So they cant vote for what they haven't heard which is often in my bias opinion better then alot of the stuff that got in the top 100

[The Dunster]

actually looking back over the last 20 years of winners i can see in most cases why a particular song won.even if i didnt dig it personally, you could always see why people thought it was a good song.
It either had huge hooks like Muse, Franz Ferdinand or QOTA (yes, and even Jet).
or they were classic drunken singalong songs (Zombie, Wonderwall, Amazing, One crowded hour)
or it was during Powderfingers run of writing single after single that were so radio friendly you couldnt not get involved.


id contend that its only really fallen apart in the last few years, like the Rubens, Kendrick Lamar and Chet Faker, These were all pretty lame songs, but (esp in Kendricks case) it was to make up for previous snubs.

Hottest 100 is fast becoming like the Oscars, where as people are more concerned about voting for the 'right' song vs voting for the song they like the most. You only have to see by everyone rushing to post their votes on social media. in the old days no one knew you voted for Offspring, and today even if you thought it was the dopest song ever written, you are now scared of peoples reactions if you vote for it.


im convinced this is how Tame Impala became popular. Because their music is garbage, but man oh man ive never heard from anyone hating on them in public.

You can't be serious about Tame Impala. The blokes [Kevin Parker] a freakin genius Plague. He uses budget guitars and simple over the counter / cheap Boss Fx pedals and comes up with a very professional sounding product most clowns couldn't emulate spending 50 times as much.
Basically, he's a 21st century version of Brian Wilson.

It's not my cup of tea either - but the bloke has a shit load of talent.

[plague]

They are very good musicians with a great vocalist. Try this one Plague.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubAbewMTUUw

Oh I dont doubt they are good musos.
And yes this cover version is fine.

I maintain that the winning song isnt very good and in 20 years time you put that, wonderwall and amazing on at the pub and let me know which ones getting sung the loudest.

[plague]

It's not my cup of tea either - but the bloke has a shit load of talent.

Oh I can easily seperate the art from the artist.

The songs are lame.

A long time ago my guitar teacher sat me down and put on all those guitar heros like Vai/Malmsteen/Satriani etc and it bored me to death.

Once we had a good discussion about the type of music I wanted to play he was able to teach me in a way that made it enjoyable.

I can 'appreciate' Steve Vai.
I think his music stinks.

[The Dunster]

Oh I dont doubt they are good musos.
And yes this cover version is fine.

I maintain that the winning song isnt very good and in 20 years time you put that, wonderwall and amazing on at the pub and let me know which ones getting sung the loudest.

As long as they aren't singing that shit Daryl Braithwaite cover of Horses I'm happy.

[The Dunster]

Oh I can easily seperate the art from the artist.

The songs are lame.

A long time ago my guitar teacher sat me down and put on all those guitar heros like Vai/Malmsteen/Satriani etc and it bored me to death.

Once we had a good discussion about the type of music I wanted to play he was able to teach me in a way that made it enjoyable.

I can 'appreciate' Steve Vai.
I think his music stinks.

Was it Izzy ?

[plague]

Or it's just a music poll? Actually, yes. It is just a music poll.

I was all with this comment up until Triple J took themselves way to seriously with the whole Taylor Swift thing.

Not to mention moving the whole thing away from Australia day.
I dont think even Triple J thinks its 'just' a music poll.

[The Dunster]

I was all with this comment up until Triple J took themselves way to seriously with the whole Taylor Swift thing.

Not to mention moving the whole thing away from Australia day.
I dont think even Triple J thinks its 'just' a music poll.

Listening to the radio has always been the domain of [I'm not even allowed to say it anymore].

It doesn't matter if it's JJJ or any other music orientated station - it's still effectively for people that really don't give a shit about music but like to pretend that they do.

Triple JJJ has become or at least pretends to be bigger than the music it plays - and that's an entirely new level of ridiculous.

[Premy]

I love when NON TRIPLE J listener's get on the interweb and complain that a song they have never heard won THE TRIPLE J HOTTEST 100.

It's in the bloody name for christ sake, there is no claim that this was the greatest song of 2018. It is nothing more than a popularity contest for the favorite song amongst Triple J listener's voted by Triple J listener's.

[plague]

I love when NON TRIPLE J listener's get on the interweb and complain that a song they have never heard won THE TRIPLE J HOTTEST 100.

It's in the bloody name for christ sake, there is no claim that this was the greatest song of 2018. It is nothing more than a popularity contest for the favorite song amongst Triple J listener's voted by Triple J listener's.

I guess this is the same as the cranky Member getting all upset when the Jets get 20k crowds as opposed to the 7k true believers out there.

Also, you forgot to put an asterix next to 'popularity contest'


And whilst i def dont listen to as much JJJ as i used to, its amazing how streaming services can steer you towards and away from ceetain music.

I spend on average 2 hours a day in the car and have music playing at work all day. Yet i still never came across that song or artist until yesterday.

And id def be shocked if the people voting in the hottest 100 are anywhere near regular or heavy listeners of JJJ.

its become a trendy thing to be involved in, and even trendier to let everyone know what you voted for. (Its always been cool oneway ortheother though).

The last time real JJJ listeners got their say they used to vote Joy Division as the winner every year thats when they changed the rules.

[plague]

Triple JJJ has become or at least pretends to be bigger than the music it plays - and that's an entirely new level of ridiculous.

Alan Jones and Ray Hadley would like a word...............

[The Dunster]

Plague we had the same phenomenon in the 70's with Led Zeppelin. Yet most so called fans barely knew half a dozen songs - and even more doubtful they actually owned an album. They did have the tshirts though.

Same with Nirvana... and so on.

Its the bandwagon

[Macca]

If you listened to much Triple J this year you definitely would have heard them. Their album came out early in the year somewhat, I wanna say around March. Obviously wouldn't have had much airplay in the second half of the year except for maybe December when JJJ tend to do their "yearly summary" rotation.

I loved their song and was super happy it took out the countdown. Its super groovy and catchy, and a bit of something different to most of what is going around recently.

Dunster - another JJJ band you might like to check out is Parcels, if you haven't already stumbled across them. I have no doubt they're probably not doing anything groundbreaking, but in terms of the last 10-20 years, they are doing something different. Pretty slick musicians. "Overnight" was the track that first caught my attention a year or two ago, and they put out an album earlier this year. Were on like a version last Friday.

[Bremsstrahlung]

There’s fuss about any “vote” all the time. Ballon D’or etc. everyone has their own opinions.

Bigger problem would be if they rigged the results.

Tbh I thought Childish Gambino’s This is America was going to win easily when it was first released for the same reason Black Panther has won a heap of awards. Everyone wants to stake their claim to making the world a more inclusive and woke place.

In hindsight, it feels more “triple j” that a upcoming band not many people outside triple j have heard of have taken out the award than bands that have excessive “mainstream pop station” air time.

Each to their own. If you’re not a fan, dust off a few vinyls and go nuts. If you are a fan, enjoy.

[Bon]

Each to their own. If you’re not a fan, dust off a few vinyls and go nuts. If you are a fan, enjoy.

Absolutely..
My g/f is all about the hottest 100, so are former roommates.. I've had to put up with it being played for years..
BUT, in that time I've learnt that there is no point going mental criticizing it or bagging it out for whatever reason..
If they are in to it and enjoy it, then have at it.. I've realised long ago that a lot of the things that I listen to aren't for everyone..

[StannyCFCJET]

Anyone else get post gig depression and then immediately looks for the next gig they can attend

[Bon]

Anyone else get post gig depression and then immediately looks for the next gig they can attend

hahaha.. Its a good feeling, mate..
Embrace it..

[StannyCFCJET]

hahaha.. Its a good feeling, mate..
Embrace it..

I love it until I then see the band I saw playing live on YouTube and wish I could go back in time

[Bon]

I love it until I then see the band I saw playing live on YouTube and wish I could go back in time

Just don't be one of those "tourists-of-life" that goes to a concert and spends the entire show filming it, watching it through their camera..
You've missed the entire show AND noone wants to see your sh!tty sounding, poorly filmed, shaky camera work.. Enjoy the moment!

[StannyCFCJET]

Just don't be one of those "tourists-of-life" that goes to a concert and spends the entire show filming it, watching it through their camera..
You've missed the entire show AND noone wants to see your sh!tty sounding, poorly filmed, shaky camera work.. Enjoy the moment!

Nah I get way into. Dont even take pictures any more. Just mosh and sing till I lose my voice haha

[Bon]

These guys. In Sydney. In April..
Yep..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDdTpVrcNvQ

[The Dunster]

Guitar sound is awesome Bon.

[The Dunster]

Dunster - another JJJ band you might like to check out is Parcels, if you haven't already stumbled across them. I have no doubt they're probably not doing anything groundbreaking, but in terms of the last 10-20 years, they are doing something different. Pretty slick musicians. "Overnight" was the track that first caught my attention a year or two ago, and they put out an album earlier this year. Were on like a version last Friday.

It sounds good.

Heavily Nile Rodgers influenced and produced by Daft Punk - who Nile Rodgers is closely associated with.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpmfVsSKEAs

[Macca]

It sounds good.

Heavily Nile Rodgers influenced and produced by Daft Punk - who Nile Rodgers is closely associated with.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpmfVsSKEAs

Yep I also went down a bit of a Nile Rodgers rabbit hole after digging into that connection. I tended to not like too many of his songs that I came across, but definitely enjoyed the playing. Having played mainly acoustic guitar and doing most of my muting with my right hand, I find the style quite difficult to emulate - but its pretty cool.

I may be mistaken but I think Daft Punk were only in on the Overnight single.

[The Dunster]

Yep I also went down a bit of a Nile Rodgers rabbit hole after digging into that connection. I tended to not like too many of his songs that I came across, but definitely enjoyed the playing. Having played mainly acoustic guitar and doing most of my muting with my right hand, I find the style quite difficult to emulate - but its pretty cool.

I may be mistaken but I think Daft Punk were only in on the Overnight single.

You need a slap back delay effect to make it work. It's very difficult without it.

I think you're right that it was only the single Daft Punk produced.

[Bon]

New song out from Clutch..
Damn they are some tripped-out dudes, but great concept about lawyers.. haha
Neil Fallon is a legend..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAh2fUo9W3M

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcPbmPM7epY

I watch this video and wonder why I even bother playing guitar. Much like Jackson Pollack avoided symmetry in the Blue Poles - Holdsworth avoids dominant notes. It's just beyond comprehension that anyone could play the way he did. And the technique - it's simply mind blowing.

[Bon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcPbmPM7epY

I watch this video and wonder why I even bother playing guitar. Much like Jackson Pollack avoided symmetry in the Blue Poles - Holdsworth avoids dominant notes. It's just beyond comprehension that anyone could play the way he did. And the technique - it's simply mind blowing.

Bloody hell.. They are all frothing.. Sounds awesome!!
How are his fingers in the weird chords at the start, like a packet of broken twisties..

Ridiculous playing aside, I love the way he just looks like some bloke you would see down at the newsagent buying the paper.. :gent:

[sammydog]

How are his fingers in the weird chords at the start, like a packet of broken twisties..

We dont all play one note at a time.

[The Dunster]

We dont all play one note at a time.

https://media.giphy.com/media/QMcamps7Gzj2g/giphy.gif

[Bon]

We dont all play one note at a time.

Bit rich coming from the bloke getting "Pretty Fly For A White Guy" dedicated to him on the radio... :gent:

[sammydog]

Bit rich coming from the bloke getting "Pretty Fly For A White Guy" dedicated to him on the radio... :gent:

It’s not like I requested the song.

[Grimario]

New Dream Theater tomorrow.
New Devy next month.

****ing banging month for my favourite pair of DT's.

[The Dunster]

New Dream Theater tomorrow.
New Devy next month.

****ing banging month for my favourite pair of DT's.

John Petrucci is a monster player. He did a series of videos for Guitar World in 2018 which are absolutely brilliant. He talks about how his playing evolved and the guitarists he discovered along the way.

I probably need to check Dream Theatre out.

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx4DshJGlI0

[Grimario]

John Petrucci is a monster player. He did a series of videos for Guitar World in 2018 which are absolutely brilliant. He talks about how his playing evolved and the guitarists he discovered along the way.

I probably need to check Dream Theatre out.

Here's the album promo they put together.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpvwRFMjD0M

[Grimario]

And here was the first single from the album.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gylxuO6dKOw

[sammydog]

Forget all of that. This is where its at.

https://www.facebook.com/SnelvisRancheros/posts/2302845539739596

Sorry, shameless plug, but its also the second last night before the Lass changes hands.

[Bon]

Forget all of that. This is where its at.

https://www.facebook.com/SnelvisRancheros/posts/2302845539739596

Sorry, shameless plug, but its also the second last night before the Lass changes hands.

Really?
You are going to drop a shameless plug when Grim goes to all that trouble of delivering you so much awesomeness??? Bloody hell...

[Bon]

And here was the first single from the album.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gylxuO6dKOw

Man... Everything is big.. The drumkit is ridiculously massive, old mate with his 6 string bass CAN play, and obviously Petrucci is a nutbag..

This actually reminds me A LOT of Between The Buried And Me but without the screaming parts.. (Or I would have to say that BTBAM are heavily influenced by DT)..
Sounds pretty awesome, very polished, but I'm not very familiar with how their sound normally is.. Just that they are mutant musicians.. haha

I'm pretty keen to hear the whole album now! Cheers mate..

[Grimario]

New Devy track dropped as well. It's pure Devy goodness and seems completely random without an entire album to contextualise it.


https://youtu.be/b-lazmW--co

[sammydog]

Really?
You are going to drop a shameless plug when Grim goes to all that trouble of delivering you so much awesomeness??? Bloody hell...

yeah, you don't need to listen once you see Dream Theatre is the content.

You know what you are getting, its guaranteed awesome.

[Grimario]

So the new Devy track is really, really good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n7uvokARQ4

The new Dream Theater album is also excellent but this Devy track tickles my fancy on all levels.

[Bon]

So the new Devy track is really, really good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n7uvokARQ4

The new Dream Theater album is also excellent but this Devy track tickles my fancy on all levels.

Hahahaha.. Devy is such a tripped out dude.. So talented..
Love the clip with the song too.. Such a random, obscure trek..

[pv4]

Taking this Keith Flint news in, I remember how much I loved the prodigy at Future Music in sydney in 2010.

And it made me remember the other highlight band of the day for me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VigDTT44Fw

[The Dunster]

Clip sounds like 80's new wave.

[StannyCFCJET]

Did anyone go to download? If so how was it?

[Jeterpool]

Did anyone go to download? If so how was it?

I struggled to get connection with my friends around this, and those who I managed to contact all dropped out.





I'm sorry for nothing.

[Bon]

I struggled to get connection with my friends around this, and those who I managed to contact all dropped out.





I'm sorry for nothing.

You are a terrible bloke... :lulzturtle: haha

As for Download, i did not attend, however did road trip up to Brisbane to see Ghost play their only sideshow on Wed..
It was fvcking AWESOME...

[StannyCFCJET]

You are a terrible bloke... :lulzturtle: haha

As for Download, i did not attend, however did road trip up to Brisbane to see Ghost play their only sideshow on Wed..
It was fvcking AWESOME...

Yeah heard they closed out the night in Sydney were insane. I need to start festivaling solo as my friends are lame

[StannyCFCJET]

I struggled to get connection with my friends around this, and those who I managed to contact all dropped out.





I'm sorry for nothing.

Well played stats man

[Grimario]

More Devy goodness. Album out later this week.


https://youtu.be/-zIxPUPWVq8


Yes, anime cat in a spaceship.

[StannyCFCJET]

Hands Like Houses playing at the Cambridge Hotel may 23rd. Newy getting all the good bands

[Grimario]

New Devy today!

[pv4]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeQM1c-XCDc

[StannyCFCJET]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeQM1c-XCDc

How good is it!

[The Dunster]

I have friends in their 60's who love Rammstein but I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone other than skinheads or neo-nazi's would enjoy their music.
I get that it's all a parody but not sure their fans do.

[Frodo]

I have friends in their 60's who love Rammstein but I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone other than skinheads or neo-nazi's would enjoy their music.
I get that it's all a parody but not sure their fans do.

I wish I was surprised by you not liking popular music again, but I'm not.

[The Dunster]

I wish I was surprised by you not liking popular music again, but I'm not.

Not sure you could back that up given I own over 10,000 albums.

[The Dunster]

https://youtu.be/C6KEgEAdPOA

Derek Trucks and band covering Soul Sacrifice as Santana played it at Woodstock.

No gimmicks or bullshit here just talented musicians.

[Grimario]

Empath is Devy at his unhindered best. He touches every style in his career and the album is amazing if chaotic. It even has Chad Kroeger singing in it, so there's something for everyone, even Stanny.

[StannyCFCJET]

Empath is Devy at his unhindered best. He touches every style in his career and the album is amazing if chaotic. It even has Chad Kroeger singing in it, so there's something for everyone, even Stanny.

Hey Chad Kroeger is good. working with Santana proves that

[The Dunster]

Hey Chad Kroeger is good. working with Santana proves that

Santana working with Rob Thomas sort of suggests it's not a measure of talent.

Devin Townsend is in another league though - very talented.

[StannyCFCJET]

Santana working with Rob Thomas sort of suggests it's not a measure of talent.

Devin Townsend is in another league though - very talented.

Ron Thomas has talent though, His music may not appeal to you but to say he doesnt have talent is just dumb and ingorant

[The Dunster]

Ron Thomas has talent though, His music may not appeal to you but to say he doesnt have talent is just dumb and ingorant

Stanny the bloke uses a fcking Capo on the 2nd Fret to play "If You're gone" because he can't handle a simple progression with a minor 2nd and minor 6th barre chord. Blokes a complete hack.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlxaLRR6xdE

[plague]

Ron Thomas has talent though, His music may not appeal to you but to say he doesnt have talent is just dumb and ingorant

is that more or less ignorant than not even getting homies name right?

[Macca]

is that more or less ignorant than not even getting homies name right?

I think you're the ingorant one

[Bon]

I have friends in their 60's who love Rammstein but I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone other than skinheads or neo-nazi's would enjoy their music.
I get that it's all a parody but not sure their fans do.

You'd be surprised mate..
I think most people would realise its all parody and shock-tactics, however I am sure there will be your extreme d!ckheads who take the imagery seriously.. They've always been a band who like to mess with people and be provocative..

Musically the new song is ok.. It's not blowing my socks off, but its not horrible or a massive step in a different direction for them either..
They've never been a technically brilliant band, but they certainly know how to write some catchy stuff..

What I find most impressive is that there are six dudes in the band and they have not had a single lineup change in their 30 year existence!!!
I'm just happy to know there is a new album coming, its been a looooooong time since their last one (almost of a Tool-esque gap between albums, haha)

[plague]

I think you're the ingorant one

look, i wasnt gonna pick him up on the spellcheck, but he cant go being all ingorant about a bloke hes caping up for.

[The Dunster]

One for Stanny.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsRneEtJHJ4

[StannyCFCJET]

look, i wasnt gonna pick him up on the spellcheck, but he cant go being all ingorant about a bloke hes caping up for.

Im not even a fan of Mr Thomas myself but he has talent, That point cant be argued

[plague]

Im not even a fan of Mr Thomas myself but he has talent, That point cant be argued

attention everyone.
I would like to make an unreserved apology to Mr Stanny, the Stanny family and anyone else caught up on this mess.

You are correct, Ron Thomas does have a massive amount of talent, and should be remembered for his iconic moments in entertainment history.
I should not have made light of his talent, and accept that my actions were rash, and unacceptable to the standards of which i hold myself on this forum.


I would also like to personally apologise to Mr Thomas for any hurt that was caused and beg forgiveness for my comments.


He was dope as **** in Karate Kid.
https://us.toluna.com/dpolls_images/2016/02/18/fbe4ae31-701a-4f7a-94ea-d87759be843e_x300.jpg
Regards,
Plague.

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e-6M2421RM

This is talent. Chelsea Constable[ the older sister here] is an absolute monster of a player, and her 13 year old sister Grace though not in the same league would still crush your Taylor Swifts... and so on like bugs.

Talent in this industry has nothing to do with popularity - it's all farking marketing - and that's very sad indeed.

[Bon]

This is talent. Chelsea Constable[ the older sister here] is an absolute monster of a player, and her 13 year old sister Grace though not in the same league would still crush your Taylor Swifts... and so on like bugs.

Talent in this industry has nothing to do with popularity - it's all farking marketing - and that's very sad indeed.

Awesome stuff... They certainly can play...

As for marketing, I think Bill Hicks put it best.. Almost 30 years on and his stuff is still just as relevant today..
(language warning)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHEOGrkhDp0

[Bon]

Good bunch of shows I've got on my calendar coming up:

Cult Leader - 11th April, Cambo
Russian Circles - 27th April, Manning Bar
Rings Of Saturn - 21st June, Cambo
The Tea Party - 26th June, Cambo
August Burns Red - 13th October, Cambo

Did anyone get down to see Phil Anselmo on Sunday night??
I didn't get there.. Kinda torn.. Love his music, not so in to his racist bullsh!t..

[pv4]

but they certainly know how to write some catchy stuff..

And apparently no one is allowed to enjoy anything just for this kind of fact nowadays.

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVEB80WWBjY

How awesome is Eddie Van Halen.

[Bon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVEB80WWBjY

How awesome is Eddie Van Halen.

Hahah That was awesome!

[Grimario]

I have friends in their 60's who love Rammstein but I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone other than skinheads or neo-nazi's would enjoy their music.
I get that it's all a parody but not sure their fans do.

I assume this cover version from a few years back is more Dunster's style...


https://youtu.be/a5xSxGhlHfc

[The Dunster]

I like their earlier funky stuff better.

[Bon]

For World Record Store Day, Mastodon have released a cover of Stairway To Heaven (dedicated to their late manager Nick John)..

I love the original, this take does it justice..
It's not bad.. Few sound/mixing issues for me, not to mention the odd skip on the recording (but I guess thats just up to whoever ripped it from the vinyl)..
Still got a bit of Mastodon tang when it busts out..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHEdWpY2I7k

[Bon]

I assume this cover version from a few years back is more Dunster's style...


https://youtu.be/a5xSxGhlHfc

I don't know anything about these dudes, but that was surprisingly awesome..
Really weird, but awesome.. haha

[The Dunster]

Best Led Zep cover of all time ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH-_9cwdLug

[plague]

My dog farting a Zeppelin melody is better then Robert Plants incesent screaching.

man oh man, that band and the Doors. Such trash.

[The Dunster]

My dog farting a Zeppelin melody is better then Robert Plants incesent screaching.

man oh man, that band and the Doors. Such trash.

When your guitarist is pushing out 130db screeching isn't an option - it's a necessity.

[plague]

When your guitarist is pushing out 130db screeching isn't an option - it's a necessity.

Orrrrr they could have both shut up and given us all some peace.

Or write better songs.

[Bon]

Orrrrr they could have both shut up and given us all some peace.

Or write better songs.

I'm not even going to bite.. Thought about it.. But.. No.. :gent:

[plague]

I'm not even going to bite.. Thought about it.. But.. No.. :gent:

good choice.
I mean, when met with such an overwhelming, convincing argument, debating it would just make you look like the member when he bangs on about stuff.

[The Dunster]

I'm not even going to bite.. Thought about it.. But.. No.. :gent:

I'm not apologising to anyone for loving dimed Plexis.:grin:

[Schultz]

Classic
https://youtu.be/4D2qcbu26gs

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eBh6xipKYk

[Retro Jet]

RIP Ian Curtis
18/5/80

[Bon]

Only just discovered these guys, not my usual hectic metal I post on here, but there is a time and place for it..
(Extra points if someone can tell me which tv show it got a huge recent following from)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Js-XbNj6Tk

[The Dunster]

Rick and Morty

Cm G6 Eflat G progression according my Maton Mini :grin:

[Bon]

Rick and Morty

Cm G6 Eflat G progression according my Maton Mini :grin:

Haha.. I knew you would be all over it, mate..

Buggered if I know the chord progressions..
I saw a clip come up of someone playing it on piano and after the intro it looked a damn lot harder than I had thought it would be..

[Skirt Boy]

Missed these guys last at the Station last night. But anyways crazy ****s. Solid music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crAKjPdZNKk

[The Dunster]

Missed these guys last at the Station last night. But anyways crazy ****s. Solid music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crAKjPdZNKk

How have I never heard of this band ? Absolutely brilliant!!!!!

Reminds me a lot of the bands we had at the Hunter on Hunter in the early 90's.

A bit of a Radio Birdman influence as well of course.

[StannyCFCJET]

The Beautiful Monument, All female rock/metal band has a new album. "I'm the Reaper" and its a banger.

[Bon]

Can't get enough of this at the moment..
With the amount of loops, pedals and equipment these dudes have going on, it's not a bad live version..
(I will be awaiting Dunster's verdict.. haha)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtpFOBJA7O8

[Grimario]

Digging the new Lacuna Coil single ahead of album in October.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGSed4hnEv8

[goaliepersempre]

yew Open Air Gränichen this weekend.. little festival here in switzerland about 3500 people per day...

with the best bar to work at - Antifaschistisches Pfeffistübli (shot of choice - pepperment schnapps)
-Enter Shikari
-Skindred
-Thy art is Murder
-Caliban
-Sick of It All
-ZSK
-Less than Jake
-Ignite
-After Burial
-Siberian Meat Grinder
-Vale Tudo

To name a few.

https://www.openairgraenichen.ch/