What break have they been given?Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
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What break have they been given?Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Not having a 16?s team will hold Charlestown back, or at least put pressure on the other ages to perform well to get them back in Div 1 next year.
If NNSWF were really serious about it they?d punish the clubs who don?t have an age group by calling the game a forfeit rather than putting byes in.
Not sure about BelSwans, couple of ages doing OK, couple less OK, that said, they and others have only played 2 games with Sundays games being washed out so hard to really gauge at this early stage. At the end though, I?ll be surprised if they start in Div 1 next season.
Like this ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by matjpacker
Their 16s games are being called a bye instead of a forfeit which means that instead of opposition clubs getting the 3 points every week they stay even.Across the rounds thats 21 points in the club championship they wont have to catch up with other grades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
So there is no punishment at all. I can?t believe all the other clubs haven?t got together to write away to question this. If a team was to forfeit on the day of a game it would be a 3-0 lose. What?s the difference hereQuote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
I dont know if theres anything more to it.There are usually a few people on here with very strong NNSW links who clarify a lot of these type of things.Hopefully they can shed some light on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hacker
Well that was the same in the first part of the season as well. Only 7 rounds so only 21 points go missing compared to 39. Would only be an issue if they finish in top four by less than 3 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Not sure what you mean by 21 points they won't have to catch up, Charlestown can at most only get 12 points per round compared to other clubs that can get 15 points per round. Maximum they can get is 84 points. Is that enough to stay top 4? I don't know but they did only finish in front of New Lambton and Cooks Hill in the first part of the season
Yes I didnt word that correctly.I bet theres a few clubs that would love to call some of their grades a bye as well so as not to donate 3 points every week to the opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
I mean a forfeit and a bye are different. One means there is a team to play in the competition and one that doesn't. All it would mean is that every club gets an additional 3 points for the club championship. Would only be a real issue if Charlestown go up to Div1 by less than 3 points.
It's not that. It's as described elsewhere. You must be punished for not fielding all teams. There are teams which have accrued 0-6 points this year. Those clubs would be far better off not fielding a side in those age groups if there's no punishment for not fielding a team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Charlestown shouldn't be eligible for promotion. Same goes for any club not fielding sides in all age groups.
Well the punishment says that each club gets one year to rectify if they can't field all teams and must have all teams to compete in the NPL. This is Charlestown's first year of not fielding all teams. An problem of the club's own making.Quote:
Originally Posted by Largesse
I will be curious to see if they don't get all youth teams next year will Northern follow their own rules and drop Charlestown down to NL1.
If you cant supply a team you deserve zero pts for that age AND if that means not enough to pts stay up then down you should go down.
Let's hope NNSWF has some courage. I have my doubts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Not being picky here but we also need to remember that NPL and NL1 no longer exist in Youth Football. It is PYL with Div 1 and 2 in the first half of the season and Groups A,B and C in the second half. One comp.
There should no longer be any favours given to any club as all play in the one comp, all have the same fees to NNSWF, the same ref fees etc. The only non result driven difference is what clubs can offer (programmes, kits etc) and how much they charge (currently ranging from $950 to $2,200).
On the field, may the best team win.
I just want the same rules and conditions applied to all.
I hope they put 18s back with seniors next year.No one has ever explained what the benefit was to move them.18s should be in and around the top squad on gameday not hanging around all day for the little kids to finish before kicking off.Maybe instead of 2nd bottom going into a playoff next year why not lowest team in senior club championship across 3 grades.Will at least promote clubs to not stack all their resources into the 1st team squad.Just an idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
Great effort by Belswans today. 4 wins and a draw vs Adamstown
True, what I meant though when talking about NPL and NL1 is the senior squad. You can't have your 1st grade team in NPL unless you have all youth grades. So since this is Charlestown's first year grace, next year if they can't their 1st grade team should be droppedQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
Now NPL is over how many NPL clubs not in finals will be dropping their young players down the grades.
Hopefully every player who is registered and qualifies to play gets a run.We cant sit on here and laud clubs for promoting youth then claiming its unfair when they go back and play their appropriate age.NNSW have made football about results so clubs chasing them shouldnt feel the slightest bit guilty about how they do it as long as the rules are followed.Im not saying youre making that argument but theres no doubt going to be people on here who thinks its unfair,and usually those people have vested interests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Top 4 in all grades with most ages having a game in hand.They will be up next year which means at least 3 clubs who started the year in Div 1 will be not going back up.The player merry go round is only just getting started.Full credit to NNSW on this one theres a few clubs who need a real hard look at their youth setups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
This along with player retention/loyalty, are always a similar argument for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Is it fair to drop players down grades in finals? Is it allowed?
As per rules, if they allowed to do so and players are eligible, then some clubs will.
There may be some extenuating circumstances, Eg players performing well in a grade and being called up to fill in for a few week to cover injuries/for experience. No problems with these players coming back. For arguments sake, we will stick with the players that are playing in an age group, but we’ve realised they are young and could play down… if we make the finals.
Now depending upon where you fall, depends on how you view it.
Opposition : no, totally unfair.
Player: meh, more games.
Teammates not making way for new player: mixed. Might be good to give us a better chance at winning.
If you’ve got your game time or position lost due to this: pissed.
The general consensus would be that the players that play through the year, earn the right to play the finals games.
Surely, if your clubs management insist on dropping players back to win, at the expense of other players, that’s a bit of a red flag to players and parents? And wouldn’t you think twice about going to a club like that?
Clubs build reputations. It’ll catch up with them eventually. If not, then people are just buying into the same rubbish.
Yeah they will be going up, but if I am Belswans who just proved we are a club that should be in Div 1, how many of their own current players will they be dropping to make way for all these recently relegated kids? I wouldn't be getting rid of too many, they just showed the club they are better than the players from the 3 clubs going down.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
As you say though a few clubs who need to have a look, they've been able to sit around comfortable for a long time. Credit to Lakes though for sorting out their issues just as the new system came in. See how long it can last for.
Its a good point and the counter to it is always that the teams doing this sort of stuff are teams that are usually in the finals.Most kids in the higher teams could be the best player on a lower team but would rather be on the fringes in a top 4 team and always be in the mix.If you are in a top 4 team then you have to be aware that theres always someone gunning for your spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
I guess if winning when you're a teenager is more important than getting much more game time to aide your development to get into 1st grade then that's what you do. It is interesting to see. See many players who won a lot at youth level now struggling to make first grade and have had to jump around clubs. Something need to consider while looks like we will win everything and game time has been good, will it always be like that? To me rather move to another club if it looks like game time will be dropping, don’t get any better on the bench.
Wonder if Charlestown will now solve that u16s problem for next year?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
For semis onward at least you have to had played the majority of your games in that age group, the only exception is usually goalkeepers or having a fair amount of players out for injury. worth keeping note of... doesn't matter if its your designated age group or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
My opinion but the Pre Season and Knock Out Cup and Plate competitions have been a valuable addition to the PYL seasons this year.
Added some value to rego fees and some great development opportunities. Well done NNSWF.
Extra games are always a good thing. Interesting to hear around the clubs that some clubs that hated the idea are now talking about how good it has been (maybe because their clubs are going well now playing like-for-like more often)
Still seems like there have been plenty of blow outs...still could be more like for like games if pro/rel was by team rather than club
Also enticement for talented players to stay at an underperforming club, if the team is decent
Agree but this is an improvement on previous model.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
Clubs are finding it difficult recruiting all the best players now due to movements from those that used to feed them.
Looks like a 3 team race to fill the final spot for Div A next year.New Lambton,Mid Coast and Lakes are safe,Belswans in 4th but could get pipped by Cooks Hill or Rosebuds.
An underperforming club with one decent team is still an under performing club, and the club needs to take a look at the underlying causes and issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
Agree far from perfect but decoupling has raised the bar and you need to build programs to develop players across all grades to be successful.
Unsure how they have added extra value. They have been included as we are playing way less league games this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by TopCorner
Rather they play 2 rounds of phase 2 then the Cup games. Has been a logistical nightmare for clubs, teams and northern. Northern have struggled to manage the cup comps which shows with the struggle to complete the Grand Finals.
After today's results it sounds like the teams playing in div 1 next year will be the div A teams plus
Lake Mac
Mid Coast
New Lambton
Cooks Hill
Can anyone confirm?
Yes, I believe Cooks Hill's results against Charlestown, and Bellswans inability to get over Lakes sorted it
Would have been interesting to see Bellswans in the top tier
I agree to...my main point is that a club needs some success to turn around their propsects (attracting better players and coaches)...if a team was judged on personal merit, it would give an opportunity to grow club level success out of that seed of a good, or couple of good teams :) I can only see a lift and shift of good teams nowQuote:
Originally Posted by TopCorner
Much more competition games being played this year, not sure what you are on about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds Forever
The only reason why the Cup Grand Finals are out of whack is because Australia was playing in the Women's World Cup on the weekend when it was scheduled to be played. Only an issue once every 4 years.Quote:
Rather they play 2 rounds of phase 2 then the Cup games. Has been a logistical nightmare for clubs, teams and northern. Northern have struggled to manage the cup comps which shows with the struggle to complete the Grand Finals.
I agree, though seems Belswans only missed out by two points, so always next year to bridge that gap.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
Charlestown finishing 8th in club championship will make it interesting to see how that goes in terms of players staying and going. Though if I am a Div1 team why would you take large numbers of players of a relegated team
Unsure how you figure this out. Last years NPL Youth was 26 games. This year it's only 20 games. Not even Knockout Comp makes up the difference. Maitland u16 are perfect example of this. Lost 1st round in penalty shootout. Then had byes all the way through until semi final which they won.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Was all out of whack before the Grand Finals. See point above, how does a team play round 1 and then have byes through to a semi final. Number of clubs have forfeited as well due to schedule issues or not bothered with it.
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a knockout comp across all the youth divisions. Just not confident that Northern can run it successfully with not all teams having teams and the area they cover.
Funny you mentioned Maitland U16s, they have played 26 games this year. Would've been 27 had Charlestown been able to sort themselves out. Though I wouldn't blame Northern for Charlestown being a basket case.
Maitland 16s also have their plate final tomorrow so that gets them to 27 games, plus they made finals so 28 games (29 if they make the grand final).
Of course those that performed well in cups get more, those that don't would at most get 25 games, those in Div 2 got at least 27 games, except those missing a team where they got 26.
As for clubs forfeiting cup games (none where schedule issues) that's on the club for pulling out. There is an additional tournament going to start soon, different format (which others on here were saying there needs to be), though I understand only 1/3 of the clubs have decided to enter it others would rather just train.
I understand some forfeits were due to scheduling. Eg. Play your league game Saturday afternoon in Newcastle, then plays in Coffs the next day, with a week notice.
The Cup is a great idea. Not sure how North Coast can play a part though due to travel requirements for all parties.