Printable View
Miller hasn't taken any blame since the day he got here.Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
Also, hes a nobody*, full power goes to coaches who earn it.
he has zero leverage.
play the hand you've got, then build some chips up.
*in terms of experience, success etc.
The issue is why wait so long if Lee wanted his own guys in there? Sure the PR wouldn't have been great if Miller was sacked as soon as Lee got here, but it would have been shitloads better than right now.
Agreed, but he's be always able to dodge blame because he never had full control.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
While I agree he doesn't deserve full power, I reckon last years progress earns him enough leverage to pick his own assistants.
He's gone now (might be back tomorrow) so it's all moot I spose,
Timing sucks, the best thing the next bloke inherits is the "it's not my squad" card.
this. Give him this season first then stab him in the back. cowardsQuote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
Miller is certainly self confident, egotistical and seems to not work well with his subordinates.
And none of that is any excuse for plunging the club into turmoil, yet again. They should have either made a change in July or committed to the year under Miller and recruited another Managerat the end of the season.
There were parts to his arrogance that were quite likeable and the fact he hadn't earned his stripes, according to some around here, made him even more likable. The guy 1000% believed in himself and what he was doing and that seemed to rub off on the players. He also didn't play the woe is me/small club card which he easily could have given the circumstances.
But clearly he also had his flaws. I don't buy into the bitchy sniping that seems to infect this club every time a new manager steps in and changes things. Players can leave if they don't like it. But what is telling to me is 2 things that I think go to his character.
The first is what Emma raised in Twitter, that Miller signed off on the appointment of Trani yet never even met him nor even spoke to him. This is an assistant who he will work side by side, day in day out. Anyone here who is involved in recruitment will know how important it is to get this right and how unsettling it can be if the wrong person is hired. And Miller seemingly didn't give a stuff. Then after signing the guy, wants him sacked within 2-3 months and refuses to take part in mediation. I don't care if Miller was OS, you pick up the phone or you don't recruit until you can put the time in. This to me is the sign of someone who makes snap decisions, and quite possibly sending Trani home from China was another. It may also have been justified but no one knows what was said.
The second was what has been rumoured that Miller was dismissive of the Chinese assistant and gave him meaningless tasks. I can understand to a degree when we have a shoe string staff and the Chinese assistant has been thrust upon him, but anyone with some cop on will know that this guy was here to report back to Ledman and therefore should be treated well. This is a sign of poor decision making imo.
But as I said, these are reasons you look elsewhere at the end of his contract, not sack him 4 weeks out from the start of the comp.
Millers disdain for assistants smacks of paranoia and a lack of confidence (despite the public face).
bloke should look at AFL blokes like Clarkson and Roos.
Successful in their own right but actively delegate work and campaigned for their assistants to get head coaching jobs elsewhere (regardless of any detrimental effect it had on his own career).
Surprise surprise their two clubs have not only been 2 of the most successful in recent history but have spawned countless new head coaches successful in their own right.
Miller wants it all to himself then wonders why no one has his back.
really? Long bow drawn there when there were zero issues last season with JPM. Sounds a clear case of personalities clashing to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Didn't help with Luc whiteanting Scott with the Chinese assistant according to Ray Gatt on DFS podcast.
No facts thanks. Only wild speculation allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by furns
Every once in a while someone posts something on the Foz which one thinks "hey, he took the words right out of my mouth, only articulated it even better".Quote:
Originally Posted by borat
Borat's post is one of those.
Bravo
How do we know without any certainty whether JPM didn't have any issues? Maybe JP was professional enough just to see out the season and just do his job but once the season was over he was pretty quick to get out of the joint and head off back to Victory. Maybe he just wanted to reunite with Musky again or the money was better.....Quote:
Originally Posted by furns
Curious as to what this "whiteanting Scott" by Luc actually means, can you elaborate, what did he actually do?
From what I have heard, he whinged to anyone who would listen and constantly put him down, after a some 1-2 months in the job. This includes in the carpark after training infront of members of the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by stopper2
I think it's pretty harsh to suggest JP had problems with Miller when JP reasons for moving back to Newcastle, and back to Melbourne, were due to the health of his wife. To suggest otherwise would mean JP is using his wife's health as an excuse, and I don't think that is likely
Sorry Borat but in the first sentence I am assuming you are referring to Trani whinging about Miller....is that what you are implying as I'm not 100% sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by borat
Yeah sorry. Trani complaining about MillerQuote:
Originally Posted by stopper2
From early on, Trani has been doing his best to undermine Miller. Trying to coerce players against Miller whilst pushing his own barrow. Something he reportedly has form for at previous clubs. But, Miller has endeared himself to the lads. After months of this carry on it comes to a head in China, Miller gives Trani his marching orders, our lads continue on building for start of the season. In the mean time Trani runs his sob story to Lee, Lee confronts Miller, differences of opinion arise. We all know who wins the Boss v's Employee fight. Miller gone. The lads, having 1st hand dealings with all that has transpired stand their ground, Boycott by all if Trani leads the way after this. Management dig a little deeper, uncover more of the story. Trani gone. Maybe this is all wrong or maybe, just maybe, there was a fly on the wall.
Welcome to the foz ScottQuote:
Originally Posted by Flyonthewall
When it's all said and done I think Miller was destined not to be here for a long time. We should be grateful that his true colours finally came out before the season has started. Four totally unrelated sauces are saying the same thing about his egotistical style, arrogance and even bullying nature. The office staff are glad he's gone. Whether Trani ratted on him or not is irrelevant, it probably just brought the inevitable forward.
Someone mentioned that he was basically "a nobody who has achieved nothing, acting like he was Alex Ferguson"!
Will be interesting to see where he gets a gig after this.
well yeah! I thought it was a really poor attitude to take an injured player (Haliti) to China and leave at home prospective 1st team players who could have been given game time. Looking at his body language he seemed aggressive with players. No matter who we get as manager now, we still have no chance with competing against the budget busters Sydney and Melbourne so for me until FFA fix this anomaly we will always get 2nd rate treatment. I just hope the players know we are behind them 100%
According to the various sources we have, a fair bit of blame is being unnecessarily attributed to Luc. Unfortunately he had to be let go as well as his position basically became untenable and to clear the decks for a new coach.
Scott had numerous opportunities to sort the situation out by actually sitting down and working through the various issues (the word trivial was specifically used) but wouldn't.
A lot of the rumors in media are made up, ie issues with Chinese triallist, blowing up over Kokko, etc.
But the main thrust of the story that a personality clash between Luc & Scott led to a him or me ultimatum was dimly viewed by the Chinese and forced the clubs hand is essentially correct.
So I can't make assumptions based on what I saw from Miller in interviews and press conferences but everyone's happy to believe Ray Gatt who at best would have one side of the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by furns
Got it.
No, we were not afforded the same right to assume Triff was rubbish.
Yet the players seemed pretty happy with him?Quote:
Originally Posted by stopper2
Who said you weren't allowed an opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by 380
So the players refusing to train for Trani is just a big coincidence hey. I think you are getting led up the garden path a little.Quote:
Originally Posted by furns
The general thrust of what you said I beleive to be correct. That this was just a series of really petty disagreements that Miller refused to sit down and discuss/mediate. Should the head coach have to with an assistant who had been here all of 5 mins is another story altogether. The Kokko story I have heard now from multiple sources as correct. But all it amounted to was Scott not being told Kokko was doing extras with Trani. Pretty minor really.
And that this is minor/petty is all the more disgusting from this club. They think so little of the supporters who have been loyal over the years to plunge us into turmoil yet again then just sort this crap out behind closed doors. And before you say Scott refused, he changed his tune when he realised the drums were getting louder. They should have given him a written warning. But no, let's just **** the season instead hey.
Trani deserved to and should have been sacked. Bad mouthing and whiteanting any employee is bullying and unprofessional, regardless if it's the boss. The guy is a scumbag and did the exact same thing to Mulvey. He has a massive chip on his shoulder and is jealous of younger coaches he deems himself to be superior to. If your reading Trani, I hope you got to wear that expensive suit you bought in the morning before being sacked in the afternoon. Good luck getting another assistant job, not sure the suit will help you now.
So is there ANY chance at all for Miller reinstated?
0 chance. The Chinese don't back down once they make a decisionQuote:
Originally Posted by hawk
From what we have learned, the club had apparently tried to sort this out numerous times behind closed doors trying to get Scott & Luc in a room to hash it all out and move forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by borat
Scott later realised he had stuck to his guns too long but by the time he had changed his tune it was too late.
Shit situation that was completely avoidable.
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by borat
My logic says: when the assistant coach does not deliver to head coach expectations then assistant goes. Even in China. Could be worse in North Korea for exemple, the great leader would have had him executed.
Yes I have heard that, it's what Lawrie is saying and what Gatty is saying, which I am sure most realise by now is where Gatty gets his info. Straight from the horses mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by furns
It's a big excuse from Lawrie to not be able to avert his first crisis as CEO. I have no doubt that Scott was billigerant and thought he was infallible, but so do most successful managers. Many of the things being spoken about Scott were said and worse about Ange and Arnie. IMO if we had Pignata or Tatsimas as CEO we don't end up in this position. And yes Scott didn't have close to the same success in his 1 season, but once we made the choice to enter pre-season we should have stuck with him.
There are alot of good things about Lawrie and imo may end up to be a fine CEO but right now we are paying for a CEO on training wheels. And that's not to mention the running flip/flop Twitter commentary and that info supposedly under a confidentiality agreement gets leaked to the press.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
But then the fault of employing a non-performing assistant falls with the Manager.
Who knows but I don't think we will be hearing from the players in the media about their opinions on Miller anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by halo se7en
Their job is to be 100% focused on playing and to not get involved in this sort of stuff.
Lee Ki-je obviously wasn't a big fan. Anyone wonder why out of the blue he left last season? Had nothing to do with his partner "not settling in" or whatever the BS story was in the media.
Singling out players in the media for criticism, segregating players who are supposed to be part of the squad from team meetings and the trip to China. This was how Miller rolled and he didn't compromise on his style right up to and including the Trani incident.
This is the whole crux of the matter....rightly or wrongly Miller did not want to change or compromise on his style/attitude as a coach to the new owner.
This attitude may be okay for an owner who says...."Okay you have 100% full control, do what you want, I will not try to influence your decision-making in anyway".
Lee however clearly wanted the situation with Trani to be sorted out but Miller wanted it his way and thus paid the consequences.
If this hadn't have happened in China, I'm sure something else over the course of the season would've occurred where Lee would've wanted Miller to compromise on his style/attitude and we would've got the same outcome as we did a few days ago.
In my opinion all coaches should have 100% full control and be judged mid season or end of season. Results he stays. No results he goes.... Simple.... When chairman / CEO tell coach what to do and not do this is the beginning of the end and it never worksQuote:
Originally Posted by stopper2
Are the Chinese a hive mind? Is there any variation in the Chinese personality or do all Chinese adhere to these imperative norms you refer to?Quote:
Originally Posted by borat
Have to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
Some managers are cut-throat, will drop players at will, will sell players at will regardless of who they are and how long they have been around, some people (myself included) may not agree with the morals of this approach, but if it gets result....
Some managers are a great people-person and can relate to the players, encourage and get the best out of them by showing them loyalty and giving them a chance, again, if it gets results...
I guess the problem is no coach, player or committee member is bigger than the club itself. And once somebody thinks that somebody is trying to be bigger than the club, problems arise.
A little unrelated, but somebody was watching The run'n'cuddle footy show at work the other weekend, and they were talking about Nathan Brown. And they made a comment along the lines of, "It must be tough for Brown knowing that the fruits of all of this rebuilding, will be enjoyed by the next Knights coach".
To be honest, i think we are in a pretty similar position to the Knights, we've hit rock bottom, need to take some time to rebuild and everybody needs to realise that there is no quick fix to this.
Anyway, it's done, he's gone, next...
I just take it from the Trani boycott that they obviously weren't happy with what went down, and the logical conclusion is that they weren't happy Miller was sacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by stopper2
If Miller knows he and Trani don't see to eye to eye, then mediation is absolutely pointless. This isn't a marriage that was once perfect - there's no kids here to protect. I'm guessing the working relationship was well beyond repair and Miller knew it. He seemed the type of person who knew exactly what he wanted and Trani wasn't it.
The club possibly said 'no, Trani stays' because they simply didn't want to pay him out. Otherwise why were they so hellbent on making it work?? The club ****ed up. No-one was going to miss Trani. No-one was going to hold the club or Miller to task over firing him because no-one even ****ing knew who he was and whether he was going to help us. Best scenario was to give Miller what he wanted. Pay Trani out (or just sack him? doesn't seem to be a problem). Give Miller an official warning behind closed doors and say "you hired this guy, you've ****ed up, we're giving you a chance to make up for it, but be very careful the next time you demand anything."
And yet the Jets appointed the bloke as the new assistant. Due Diligence goes missing in action once again at the Jets. Anyone involved in the decision to bring Trani to the club should be sacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by borat
Actually, I'm blaming FFA. They made the decision to give us a young rookie coach who hadn't done any hard yards as a Head Coach. Ange put his 2 cents worth recommending him as a young coach with potential (fair enough) but hey lets use the Newcastle Jets as the guinea pig because we want to go cheap and don't want to throw dollars at a regional club and get an experienced coach and really set this club up for the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by halo se7en
Miller with his decade at Fulham as a youth coach, trainer (or whatever he was) and his Sports Science/ Psychology degrees comes here with the mindset that he is the next Alex Ferguson in waiting.
Sure he turned things around from the debacle under Stubbins with limited resources but he has done it by also being basically an arrogant pratt with an ego the size of Nobby's Head in the process.
I could go on but what's the point because he's gone and we'll probably never know the finer details of what actually happened in China.
Everyone just has to move on and accept it.
Rant over....yeah I've had a couple of wines so maybe I've rabbled on a bit!
#NTUA
Man did this Miller bloke score 40 goals for us last season? Sure was disappointed but time to move on. Can't wait to get out and win games. People will forget pretty quick.
Oh wait. We don't win games. Lol.
Carry on
Or we have a CEO who is actively trying to respond to a situation which otherwise would have been a minor issue made a major one based on one of the parties not reading the situation correctly and another party responding in what we consider an extreme manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by borat
I imagine there's fires on many many fronts this guy is trying to extinguish - fans, members, media, players, football staff, backroom staff, applicants, owner, ffa, sponsors, foxtel to names quite a few
I've heard the same. Scott and Luc had an issue. Scott dealt with the situation incorrectly and tried to call the clubs bluff. It backfired and he lost his gig. He's young and he will learn.
ZeroQuote:
Originally Posted by hawk