The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

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Originally Posted by Premy

So how bout this legalization of gay marriage hey :lol::tongue:
Equal rights and all.

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would love to go to a gay marriage. reckon it would be a hoot and a holler. sick reception, guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by tha_hauss

I just think its more of a waste of your time than anything....

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by definition, isn't it a bigger waste of my time, given he said he is closed to alternative explanations? compare that to myself, where my acceptance to a particular theory may be changed by new contradictory evidence. e.g, if god appeared in the sky saturday, i'd be singing hyms in church on sunday.

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Originally Posted by tha_hauss

I just think its more of a waste of your time than anything....

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by definition, isn't it a bigger waste of my time, given he said he is closed to alternative explanations? compare that to myself, where my acceptance to a particular theory may be changed by new contradictory evidence. e.g, if god appeared in the sky saturday, i'd be singing hyms in church on sunday.

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Originally Posted by snake

the answers are there, implicitly. the strength of evidence of any of them is weak relatively speaking, because they're based on eyewitness testimony and police interrogation, which aren't that great.

i haven't personally investigated any of them as there's no value in it for me. so at this point, in lieu of strong evidence to the contrary, i'm happy to accept the default position. however, if there was strong evidence that were to arise casting doubt on one of the stories, i would have to reconsider this position.

obviously, the above is about the mmurders/ 9-11 stories, not the moon landing, which very obviously happened several times.

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Well **** Me.

5 Believer in the Official Stories

That's not how I would have had you pegged.

If science is absolutely correct and logic is also good any doubts put on the story should see you in the Believer in the Not Believing Camp I would have thought.

I do though find it absolutely amusing that when the opinion of religion comes up you are absolutely definitively adamant in your faith of science and logic being correct.
Yet these examples particularly the JFK and 9-11 ones see you turn your back on science and logic as being definitively correct and by taking the position you have you obviously believe in something that both science and logic actually contradicts


Thought to be perfectly fair I couldn't ever see you accepting the Moon Landing as a Hoax as it if one of sciences alleged greatest feats and if it was deemed a fraud you would have a few issues

On another note though Snake seeing as you don't believe in Roswell being legit but as a some what strong believer in science evolution and logic and all that what are your thoughts on the possibility of alien life form??


Basically do you believe in little green man and flying saucers even if these little green man and flying saucers don't quite live up to the Hollywood comic stereotype with their image.

Most people would say you would have to be a little crazy to believe in them but surely you would have to believe in them being possible and probability wise being most likely???

Bigger things going on here Member.
Important question, do you believe in unicorns?

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Yet these examples particularly the JFK and 9-11 ones see you turn your back on science and logic as being definitively correct and by taking the position you have you obviously believe in something that both science and logic actually contradicts

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Wait, are you saying there is scientific proof of a JFK and 9/11 conspiracy?

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Originally Posted by Premy

Bigger things going on here Member.
Important question, do you believe in unicorns?

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Don't know why you keep asking me this.

Should really be asking Snake as he believes in Evolution
According to him it should only be a matter of time as the horse evolves with a horn on its head.
Either that or Snakes scientist mates could speed it up a bit with some genetic engineering with rhinos and horses

Being that there are references to unicorns in the bible maybe the unicorn has already been and gone

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Originally Posted by snake

would love to go to a gay marriage. reckon it would be a hoot and a holler. sick reception, guaranteed.

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At the very least - the dancing would be streets above anything at a hetero wedding

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Originally Posted by tha_hauss

I just think its more of a waste of your time than anything. Whether you are offended or not, what's the point in discussing something important with someone who doesn't care if he insults you? There is no respect there, and if there isn't respect, the discussion is pointless. It's not two respectful humans discussing something with each other but two people shouting their own opinions at each other. That's why I made a genuine offer to have a discussion. I would hope that 10 years of serving the Jets community would be a foundation for a bit of respect.

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well said.

Sorry, time helping the Jets community receives no reward or respect. New knobs with big voices come in and are quick to throw out culture and reasoning. good luck.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Don't know why you keep asking me this.

Should really be asking Snake as he believes in Evolution
According to him it should only be a matter of time as the horse evolves with a horn on its head.
Either that or Snakes scientist mates could speed it up a bit with some genetic engineering with rhinos and horses

Being that there are references to unicorns in the bible maybe the unicorn has already been and gone

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So is that a yes or no?

If the moon landings were fake the Russians would have let everyone know about it. The fact that the Russians accepted defeat in the race to the moon is proof enough for me.

Snake as per this question 4 about reading scriptures not becoming canon

I take it we are referring to verses that are now not found in the bible anymore yet were once in it a thousand years ago etc???

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Originally Posted by Premy

So is that a yes or no?

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If they are referred to in the bible and I believe in the good book the answer should be pretty straight forward shouldn't it???

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Originally Posted by MFKS

If they are referred to in the bible and I believe in the good book the answer should be pretty straight forward shouldn't it???

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One would think that it would be straight forward, tell me without getting to personal have you taken the vows of marriage yourself? If not one would hope that you're still a virgin.

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Originally Posted by Premy

One would think that it would be straight forward, tell me without getting to personal have you taken the vows of marriage yourself? If not one would hope that you're still a virgin.

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No not that silly and I do have to constantly be absolved of sin

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Originally Posted by MFKS

No not that silly and I do have to constantly be absolved of sin

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:tongue: So you can pick and choose which part of the good book to believe in and practice in, oh I think I'm getting the hang of this.

Sure as hell hope we don't have to believe and practice in this bit of the "good" book

15:12-13
whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.

I'm apologies if you feel disrespected by this statement Hauss but I find it rather ironic that you are defending Christianity yet you get upset by someone forcing an opinion onto another.

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Originally Posted by snake

ok serious questions.

1. when and how were you introduced to you current religion?
2. is there any part of the scriptures you find concerning, or that you personally disagree with?
3. are you concerned that the books were written some time after jesus' death, and there being any possibility of transcription errors or embellishment?
4. have you read the scriptures which didn't become conon? if so, what are your thoughts?
5. have you tried or ivestigated any non-abrahamic religions, which have their own genesis stories?

thanks for your time.

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I'm happy to answer these questions, but just a quick question. It seems that all these questions are designed to direct you toward a conclusion that you have already reached. Is that how scientists approach a topic? I thought that designing an experiment so that it was biased toward the result you want is a big no no. You've almost written my answers for me.

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Originally Posted by Premy

:tongue: So you can pick and choose which part of the good book to believe in and practice in, oh I think I'm getting the hang of this.

Sure as hell hope we don't have to believe and practice in this bit of the "good" book

15:12-13
whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.

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No picking and choosing which parts.

Try and live a life free from sin embracing god as your lord and saviour

Confess your sins and seek forgiveness

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Originally Posted by MFKS

No picking and choosing which parts.

Try and live a life free from sin embracing god as your lord and saviour

Confess your sins and seek forgiveness

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yeah I'm sticking up for my man Member here. you can't go picking apart every minute detail of the books.
everyone on here has broken the laws of the society we choose to live in from time to time.
besides, as he said, if you do the wrong thing just ask for forgiveness. simple.

and Hauss, don't take this stuff too personally. i think everyone is more than respectable towards your beliefs. it doesn't mean that people don't find the ideas of your beliefs absurd.
in the same way you have probably had your say on players, coaches and ceo's of this club being just as unbelievable. but those same players managers and ceos probably truly believed they belonged here.


i think there is a difference between saying religion is stupid, versus saying you are stupid for believing it.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

No picking and choosing which parts.

Try and live a life free from sin embracing god as your lord and saviour

Confess your sins and seek forgiveness

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So by that logic I should be put to death?

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Originally Posted by Premy

So by that logic I should be put to death?

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Ask Snake he deals in Science and logic

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Originally Posted by tha_hauss

I'm happy to answer these questions, but just a quick question. It seems that all these questions are designed to direct you toward a conclusion that you have already reached. Is that how scientists approach a topic? I thought that designing an experiment so that it was biased toward the result you want is a big no no. You've almost written my answers for me.

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not quite. i'm just cutting straight to the point to save time.

if the bible is reliable, then the abrahamic god exists, cares abour us, will judge us etc. if ghe bible is unreliable, then all that may still be true, but it can't be used as supporting evidence. however, the hypothesis for a god usually comes the axiom of the bible being reliable. ergo, proper scientific enquiry is to test the veracity of the bible. hence the motivation behind a few of the questions :)

the other questions are to raise your consciousness about how truly arbitrary your religion is. i'm probably correct in thinking you're christian because you were raised in a christian family. most apples don't fall far from the tree. if we were both indian, we would be having the same coversation about hinduism...

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Originally Posted by plague

yeah I'm sticking up for my man Member here. you can't go picking apart every minute detail of the books.
everyone on here has broken the laws of the society we choose to live in from time to time.
besides, as he said, if you do the wrong thing just ask for forgiveness. simple.

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you've missed the point here. it's not that mkfs doesn't perfectly follow the rules in the bible all of the time, it's that the bible is self-contradictory, or in some cases, patently absurd in terms of moral guidance or historical value.

je suis snake

terrorists tend to be religious narcissists

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...tz-jihadi-john

"Delusions of grandeur, a fear of failure and a need for admiration"

remind you of anyone on this forum?

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Originally Posted by snake

you've missed the point here. it's not that mkfs doesn't perfectly follow the rules in the bible all of the time, it's that the bible is self-contradictory, or in some cases, patently absurd in terms of moral guidance or historical value.

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no no, it was in response to the accusation from someone else that if you don't adhere to all the rules in the bible then you can't be a proper christian.
i know plenty who take bits and pieces from it to shape their journey in life. not sure if thats makes them a plastic christian or not but i don't think us non beliebers should take that angle in the argument (not that you were, it was someone else).

Anyway Snake back to my little green men question and your beliefs in their existence.

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Originally Posted by plague

no no, it was in response to the accusation from someone else that if you don't adhere to all the rules in the bible then you can't be a proper christian.
i know plenty who take bits and pieces from it to shape their journey in life. not sure if thats makes them a plastic christian or not but i don't think us non beliebers should take that angle in the argument (not that you were, it was someone else).

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It was me.
I find it hard to believe someone that only believes in half a story. If they only believe in the part of something that suits them then I believe when they are to portray something then they will only portray what suits them, hardly the full scope on something. How's the expression you can't have your cake and eat it.

The Church is built on foundations of hearsay and depictions of people who only portray part of the good book. Ministers, Fathers what ever name they want to go by are happy to preach stories from a book but are quick to tell us not to take all those stories literal, surely one can forgive me for not knowing what stories to take literal and what stories to not.

I'm still trying to work out what insulted hauss so much in the first place. As far as I can tell it was when snake said that he believes in zombie stories. So that's too insulting now? sheesh

For all I care you could say that I suck Darwin's cawk, no need to get precious about it.

Saying that we aren't allowed to ridicule or make fun of beliefs which quite clearly require a large leap of faith sets a dangerous precedent for society.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Ask Snake he deals in Science and logic

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I'm interested to know what someone who believes in the "good" books thoughts are on that extract.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Anyway Snake back to my little green men question and your beliefs in their existence.

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a dude a while back named drake derived an equation to estimate this using the product of a set of probabilities. number of stars x fraction with planets x fraction of planets with conditions conducive to life x. ... etc. otoh, i don't know if moons were included here, which would expand the probabilities slightly.

we currently have good estimates for some of these parameters, but not for others. the universe us a big place, and the number if extrasolar planets discovered is accelerating with improved measurements. the number if.earth-like planets is increasing also. this stuff is hot science right nao.

once upon a time, there was a theory called vital force theory, which stated that organic molecules can only come from organic sources. thwn one day, this dude whose name escapes me, prepared urea (a chemical in your piss) from inorganic chemicals. vital force theory, and one if gods roles, died shortly after.

it was.thought that these molecules - particulay those in RNA require a solvent like water to form. RNA is particularly interesring because it copies itself! kinda like life does....

anyway, it turns out you don't need liquid water.to form many of these molecules - they exist in comets - and so are ubiquitous to tbe solar system. since i don't happen to think our solar system is all that special, they're probably common to the universe. a big place.

so, are.there little green men?

visiting us -probably not, although i do watch ancient aliens for a giggle.

elsewhere in the universe? i'd be stunned if there wasn't. although the data isn't in yet. (it only takes.one drake probability to be zero, for the whole thing to be zero...) would love for it to be solved in my lifetime, but it's probably asking too much.

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Originally Posted by Premy

It was me.
I find it hard to believe someone that only believes in half a story. If they only believe in the part of something that suits them then I believe when they are to portray something then they will only portray what suits them, hardly the full scope on something. How's the expression you can't have your cake and eat it.

The Church is built on foundations of hearsay and depictions of people who only portray part of the good book. Ministers, Fathers what ever name they want to go by are happy to preach stories from a book but are quick to tell us not to take all those stories literal, surely one can forgive me for not knowing what stories to take literal and what stories to not.

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you make a fair point, but from reading Members posts and my own experience there are a lot of people who use the books as a guide to form their own theory on life. id be shocked if the there are more of those in the world than your extremist "all or nothing" type of lads.

i think everyone agrees that extremists are the ****ing worst.

oi Member, so what are your thoughts on the likes of the Westboro baptist church?
cool with it, not cool?
interested to hear a religious mans perspective as id assume all non believers would think they are the worst humans on the planet.

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Originally Posted by snake

elsewhere in the universe? i'd be stunned if there wasn't. although the data isn't in yet. (it only takes.one drake probability to be zero, for the whole thing to be zero...) would love for it to be solved in my lifetime, but it's probably asking too much.

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so Snake, (or others) have you ever come across anything you would legit think is proof of life out there?
blows my mind to think one day its going to be discovered.

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Originally Posted by boz-monaut

terrorists tend to be religious narcissists

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...tz-jihadi-john

"Delusions of grandeur, a fear of failure and a need for admiration"

remind you of anyone on this forum?

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Memberforahmed

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Originally Posted by militiamon

Saying that we aren't allowed to ridicule or make fun of beliefs which quite clearly require a large leap of faith sets a dangerous precedent for society.

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but when we do some get angry, some dont care and others find someone who disagrees and kill.

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Originally Posted by snake

once upon a time, there was a theory called vital force theory, which stated that organic molecules can only come from organic sources. thwn one day, this dude whose name escapes me, prepared urea (a chemical in your piss) from inorganic chemicals. vital force theory, and one if gods roles, died shortly after.

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Organic chemists :wanker: :bs: :yap:

Do other forms of life exist in this universe - almost certainly.
Are those other forms of life interested in having contact with us - almost certainly not.
It's hilarious to me that people think humans are the superior and only form of life in the cosmos. Why would any beings smart enough to develop means for travelling massive distances through space want to hang out with a race intent on blowing each other up over trivial differences and watching cat videos on the internet?

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Originally Posted by snake

a dude a while back named drake derived an equation to estimate this using the product of a set of probabilities. number of stars x fraction with planets x fraction of planets with conditions conducive to life x. ... etc. otoh, i don't know if moons were included here, which would expand the probabilities slightly.

we currently have good estimates for some of these parameters, but not for others. the universe us a big place, and the number if extrasolar planets discovered is accelerating with improved measurements. the number if.earth-like planets is increasing also. this stuff is hot science right nao.

once upon a time, there was a theory called vital force theory, which stated that organic molecules can only come from organic sources. thwn one day, this dude whose name escapes me, prepared urea (a chemical in your piss) from inorganic chemicals. vital force theory, and one if gods roles, died shortly after.

it was.thought that these molecules - particulay those in RNA require a solvent like water to form. RNA is particularly interesring because it copies itself! kinda like life does....

anyway, it turns out you don't need liquid water.to form many of these molecules - they exist in comets - and so are ubiquitous to tbe solar system. since i don't happen to think our solar system is all that special, they're probably common to the universe. a big place.

so, are.there little green men?

visiting us -probably not, although i do watch ancient aliens for a giggle.

elsewhere in the universe? i'd be stunned if there wasn't. although the data isn't in yet. (it only takes.one drake probability to be zero, for the whole thing to be zero...) would love for it to be solved in my lifetime, but it's probably asking too much.

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So you believe in the possibility of little green men.

Ok

I will leave the insults of you being loopy crazy etc alone but lets at least take note that your position on this subject would leave some severe doubts on your level of sanity in the modern world.


Now as far as your science goes Why has Science not been able to prove the existence of these little green men??

I am taking the answer to this is that science is not complete yet?? Ie Science has not discovered its limit and is still a long way from achieving it


Would this be a fair narrative to explain the situation as to why Little Green Men are not confirmed as legit just yet