2020 Premier Club SAP

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Originally Posted by Negative Police

I guess my point is that community coaches can be and SOME are just as good as the SAP coaches up until 12. So the development "can" be as good.

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Hi Negative Police (great name by the way!)

I tried to gauge the level of certification that is expected at SAP clubs on this forum some time ago. At our club we only ask that coaches have the Skill Training certificate which is what most community clubs would hope for with U9-U12 as well.

What sometimes gets lost is: 'Skills Acquisition' is a Phase, not a program, and that 'SAP' can and is coached at community level as well. 'SAP' has somehow become the buzz word for 'elite' in this region but the FFA core skills are the fundamentals whether you are at a NPL club or are coaching Shortland U9s.

If clubs running SAP expect their coaches to get C licenses for SAP and then B for youth then that is a big undertaking for those coaches. The players in those clubs would benefit hugely but I don't think many blokes coaching SAP would have the time to walk that path.

I would love to hear from the coaches on here as to what badges they have and what they and their club aspire to have. For discussion!

A

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Originally Posted by Alan

Hi Negative Police (great name by the way!)

I tried to gauge the level of certification that is expected at SAP clubs on this forum some time ago. At our club we only ask that coaches have the Skill Training certificate which is what most community clubs would hope for with U9-U12 as well.

What sometimes gets lost is: 'Skills Acquisition' is a Phase, not a program, and that 'SAP' can and is coached at community level as well. 'SAP' has somehow become the buzz word for 'elite' in this region but the FFA core skills are the fundamentals whether you are at a NPL club or are coaching Shortland U9s.

If clubs running SAP expect their coaches to get C licenses for SAP and then B for youth then that is a big undertaking for those coaches. The players in those clubs would benefit hugely but I don't think many blokes coaching SAP would have the time to walk that path.

I would love to hear from the coaches on here as to what badges they have and what they and their club aspire to have. For discussion!

A

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I'm not 100% positive but I seem to recall some of the NPL clubs in the past asking for C licenses, or progressing towards C licenses, for their SAP coaches.

I was forwarded this by a parent from another club - It hasn't been communicated internally at Jaffa's:
Attachment 1697

It's Memo 75 from NNSWF with some key information about their intentions for SAP in 2021:
Key points:

1. 11's and 12's will be playing 9v9 on a half field (65m x 55m)
2. clubs are asked to enter results for all SAP matches on the Sports TG results
   entry page, in the same manner as typical NPL/NL1/WPL youth fixtures. These results will not be
   published by NNSWF and should not be published by clubs.
3. The season will be split into 3 phases
4. Phase 1 - Premier 5s Competition – This will be held over a 2-3 weeks at Football Fives at Lake
   Macquarie Regional Football Facility, and will aim to give a number matches against teams of an
   equivalent level, as well as testing against teams from a high or lower level.
5. Phase 2 – Regular Season Part 1 – This will be 8-10 weeks of matches against teams of an
   appropriate level based on end of 2020 performance and performance in Premier 5s Competition.
6. Phase 3 - Regular Season Part 2 – This will be another 8-10-week period against teams of an
   appropriate level based on end of 2020 performance and performance in Premier 5s Competition,
   and phase 1 of the competition.
7. Girls will continue be permitted to play in either boys or girls’ teams in premier 9s-12s, and will be
   permitted to play one year below their required age level if playing in boys competitions, with the
   exception of 12 year old girls (born 2009)* who will have the option of playing in WPL 13s as well as
   Premier 12s Girls, Premier 12s Boys and NPL 13s.

My personal opinion:

• Grading teams based on 2020 performance is a positive step.
• Grading 7v7 or 9v9 teams based on Phase 1's 5's competition results is ridiculous.
• How do teams of 12-14 kids even play 5 a side and make it worth their time?
• Phase 2 & 3 combined being 16-20 games is nowhere near enough game time.

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Originally Posted by Alan

What sometimes gets lost is: 'Skills Acquisition' is a Phase, not a program, and that 'SAP' can and is coached at community level as well. 'SAP' has somehow become the buzz word for 'elite' in this region but the FFA core skills are the fundamentals whether you are at a NPL club or are coaching Shortland U9s.

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exactly. i cringe when people refer to it as some sort of elite production line of superstar players.theres no doubt that the majority of NPL youth 13 and will come from SAP players, but there will be many many kids come from community straight into NPL youth because they are good enough.i can guarantee also that no club will refuse to pick a player who is good enough just because they werent in SAP.my kid has enjoyed SAP and its been good for him.hes also had teammates come in and out of the program and go in different directions and ive no doubt if they are still keen by 13's they will have just as much chance of an NPL spot as my kid.

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Originally Posted by Aegon

My personal opinion:
[LIST][*]Grading teams based on 2020 performance is a positive step.

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which i guess is fine for those teams staying the same.quite a few teams going to be very different in 2021 and not all for the better.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

which i guess is fine for those teams staying the same.quite a few teams going to be very different in 2021 and not all for the better.

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Which I think is the point of splitting phase 2 & 3 to correct for these types of adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Aegon

Which I think is the point of splitting phase 2 & 3 to correct for these types of adjustments.

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if the point of grading is to not have teams get flogged the bottom teams in each grade will get flogged for 66% of the season so why not let them cop it all year long?also, if results now 'matter' why are we having some sort of 'B' grade when winning those games wont mean anything if they cant get close to any of the teams in 'A' grade?
every year NNSW has less and less input into the program and its very quickly going from al alternative way to teach kids into NPL 10/11 and 12's.i was a big believer in the early days of it but now its quickly drifting back into the same way we've always done it.so expect the same outcomes.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

exactly. i cringe when people refer to it as some sort of elite production line of superstar players.theres no doubt that the majority of NPL youth 13 and will come from SAP players, but there will be many many kids come from community straight into NPL youth because they are good enough.i can guarantee also that no club will refuse to pick a player who is good enough just because they werent in SAP.my kid has enjoyed SAP and its been good for him.hes also had teammates come in and out of the program and go in different directions and ive no doubt if they are still keen by 13's they will have just as much chance of an NPL spot as my kid.

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SAP is supposed to be part of the talent pathway if you bother to look at the NNSW development program. SAP in its current form however has been so diluted, that’s why people now struggle to see where it fits for development. I would say they have now made the TSP program what the old SAP was in regards to the elite pathway you are referring to.

Most of the community kids that have made it into 13s NPL are now finding they have been released for 14s from their current clubs when actually coming up against the kids that have been in the old SAP program for a season, it’s a pretty big wake up call for many of them. A lot of the parents seem to struggle with what the NPL commitment looks like when they haven’t been in a background of 2-3 nights training at the level required and some of the kids struggle to bring the discipline and commitment required.

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Originally Posted by KITZ

Most of the community kids that have made it into 13s NPL are now finding they have been released for 14s from their current clubs when actually coming up against the kids that have been in the old SAP program for a season, it’s a pretty big wake up call for many of them. A lot of the parents seem to struggle with what the NPL commitment looks like when they haven’t been in a background of 2-3 nights training at the level required and some of the kids struggle to bring the discipline and commitment required.

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for sure this is a very valid point.making it and maintaining it are 2 very different concepts and SAP has definitely prepared the kids better for it.its been interesting to listen to a lot of old heads in and around the program talk about them not having anywhere near this level of coaching at the same ages.dont get me wrong, i am a big fan of SAP and hope it has the desired results, i just get the impression we are veering away from the original intention of the program.

I’ve asked many times in here what the purpose of this program is, because there’s so many mixed messages going on.

I perceive SAP to be an “elite” program because:
1. Only certain clubs are allowed to have teams.
2. NPL teams have SAP teams but not community teams
3. SAP advertise for coaches
4. There are trials
5. Not everyone can be picked to play SAP


I have no problem with any of it, or have any involvement in it, just an onlooker trying to keep in touch with what’s going on at junior levels.

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

I’ve asked many times in here what the purpose of this program is, because there’s so many mixed messages going on.

I perceive SAP to be an “elite” program because:
1. Only certain clubs are allowed to have teams.
2. NPL teams have SAP teams but not community teams
3. SAP advertise for coaches
4. There are trials
5. Not everyone can be picked to play SAP

I have no problem with any of it, or have any involvement in it, just an onlooker trying to keep in touch with what’s going on at junior levels.

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Its good or the best we have atm but not elite.

It's too diluted with so many players a huge difference in ability to be elite. The Old SAP was closer to elite but Jets is what elite is supposed to be. Nearly anyone can eventually find a SAP club and then get flogged.

The first 2 yrs of Premier club SAP was good 2 x 40 min games a week. Now its just pathetic for the $$$.

The coaching and advice from TDs is quite good but nothing better than I was coaching at community. Id have 3 training sessions p/w for the preseason than 2 for rest of year in community u11s. A tiny bit of video analysis and drills from academies around the world. Kids loved it. Some went on big others still not.

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Originally Posted by KITZ

I would say they have now made the TSP program what the old SAP was in regards to the elite pathway you are referring to.
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TSP may not be on at all next year. Are there any elite coaches employed at Speers Point? And unless there are trials its a joke. Asking TDs for some kids is dodgy.

The NNSW coaches should watch the serious contenders play amongst each other.

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Originally Posted by Negative Police

Its good or the best we have atm but not elite.

It's too diluted with so many players a huge difference in ability to be elite. The Old SAP was closer to elite but Jets is what elite is supposed to be. Nearly anyone can eventually find a SAP club and then get flogged.

The first 2 yrs of Premier club SAP was good 2 x 40 min games a week. Now its just pathetic for the $$$.

The coaching and advice from TDs is quite good but nothing better than I was coaching at community. Id have 3 training sessions p/w for the preseason than 2 for rest of year in community u11s. A tiny bit of video analysis and drills from academies around the world. Kids loved it. Some went on big others still not.

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I think you’re overestimating community coaching based on your own experience.
I know parents with kids at Association Sap 12’s and club development squads that aren’t getting that level of training & Guidance.

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Originally Posted by Aegon

I think you’re overestimating community coaching based on your own experience.
I know parents with kids at Association Sap 12’s and club development squads that aren’t getting that level of training & Guidance.

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Yeah, ive seen coaches where they ask the kids what did they do last year and copy it. But there are quite a few who take it seriously.

Are they U12 players from the old SAP regime at SpeersPoint? disappointing if so

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Originally Posted by Aegon

I think you’re overestimating community coaching based on your own experience.
I know parents with kids at Association Sap 12’s and club development squads that aren’t getting that level of training & Guidance.

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Hi Aegon,

I don't think it is as simple as that. In my experience, unless a coach has personal ambitions to progress in the game, good coaches will often follow their children's path. If a child stays in community, most times so does the coach.

Of course, most coaches will want their child to be exposed to a supposed "higher" standard, but certainly not all. I could point you in the direction of many, many excellent coaches in Newy who have stayed in community football for the love of the game and their community club.

I don't want to upset any coaches on here, but I would also argue that badges and tickets don't make you a good coach - knowing the game, wanting to get better and knowing how to manage lots of personalities is far more important that the certificate you have, or the club where you coach.

A

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aegon

I was forwarded this by a parent from another club - It hasn't been communicated internally at Jaffa's:
Attachment 1697

It's Memo 75 from NNSWF with some key information about their intentions for SAP in 2021:
Key points:

1. 11's and 12's will be playing 9v9 on a half field (65m x 55m)
2. clubs are asked to enter results for all SAP matches on the Sports TG results
   entry page, in the same manner as typical NPL/NL1/WPL youth fixtures. These results will not be
   published by NNSWF and should not be published by clubs.
3. The season will be split into 3 phases
4. Phase 1 - Premier 5s Competition – This will be held over a 2-3 weeks at Football Fives at Lake
   Macquarie Regional Football Facility, and will aim to give a number matches against teams of an
   equivalent level, as well as testing against teams from a high or lower level.
5. Phase 2 – Regular Season Part 1 – This will be 8-10 weeks of matches against teams of an
   appropriate level based on end of 2020 performance and performance in Premier 5s Competition.
6. Phase 3 - Regular Season Part 2 – This will be another 8-10-week period against teams of an
   appropriate level based on end of 2020 performance and performance in Premier 5s Competition,
   and phase 1 of the competition.
7. Girls will continue be permitted to play in either boys or girls’ teams in premier 9s-12s, and will be
   permitted to play one year below their required age level if playing in boys competitions, with the
   exception of 12 year old girls (born 2009)* who will have the option of playing in WPL 13s as well as
   Premier 12s Girls, Premier 12s Boys and NPL 13s.

My personal opinion:

• Grading teams based on 2020 performance is a positive step.
• Grading 7v7 or 9v9 teams based on Phase 1's 5's competition results is ridiculous.
• How do teams of 12-14 kids even play 5 a side and make it worth their time?
• Phase 2 & 3 combined being 16-20 games is nowhere near enough game time.

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Yes this provoked A LOT of chat at our club. Our view was the same as yours wrt the Football Fives. We are more comfortable with the Phase 2 and Phase 3 as it will result in a similar amount of games to this season which has worked well for us as we are not a big club.

Our club will probably fit in the lower-middle range of teams, and if we are placed a lower graded bracket we see this as a motivation. Like a promotion/relegation opportunity - very topical with the current chat around the A League 2nd division!

A

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Originally Posted by Negative Police

TSP may not be on at all next year. Are there any elite coaches employed at Speers Point? And unless there are trials its a joke. Asking TDs for some kids is dodgy.

The NNSW coaches should watch the serious contenders play amongst each other.

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I believe its done through a joint meeting of the technical directors at the clubs and at northern. But the process I think should be better publicised to stop the misconceptions about how kids are picked, most parents either don't know, wont ask questions, or their club doesn't communicate very well about it.

Maybe for the younger ones, it might be a stretch, but if there's still a State comp for SAP, its a really good opportunity to play for points and get experience in front of crowds.

For the older boys, it feeds into nationals which helps for national selection into the joeys etc, so it's definitely something that needs to be maintained as an opportunity for our local kids, we don't need more kids from the cities represented and we miss out!

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Originally Posted by KITZ

I believe its done through a joint meeting of the technical directors at the clubs and at northern. But the process I think should be better publicised to stop the misconceptions about how kids are picked, most parents either don't know, wont ask questions, or their club doesn't communicate very well about it.

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Hi Kitz,

Our club has never had a player represented in any of these programs and I think i am right to say our TD has not been involved in discussions around who is selected or not.

Players tend to come from 3-4 of the same clubs so maybe conversations between them and Northern are more intimate so to speak!!

100% agree on better communications and more opportunities for kids from this region. We've been left behind in recent years and unfortunately I think the gap between us and Sydney is widening every year.

A

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Originally Posted by Alan

Yes this provoked A LOT of chat at our club. Our view was the same as yours wrt the Football Fives. We are more comfortable with the Phase 2 and Phase 3 as it will result in a similar amount of games to this season which has worked well for us as we are not a big club.

Our club will probably fit in the lower-middle range of teams, and if we are placed a lower graded bracket we see this as a motivation. Like a promotion/relegation opportunity - very topical with the current chat around the A League 2nd division!

A

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Yes the football 5's thing will ruffle a lot of feathers.
Some will love it, some will hate it.

My concern is that I don't think it is being done for altruistic reasons. The SAP fast 5's have generated next to no interest from the clubs in the past 2 years.
Does someone at NNSWF have a KPI they need to meet for SAP utilisation? Probably ties into how they justify charging the fees that they do for SAP participants.

In the 11's and 12's its pointless.
11-14 player squads can't play 5 on the pitch with 6-9 subs. It won't give you any accurate representation of how those teams or individuals will perform in a 9v9 game.

I was really pleased to see Kahibah having another crack at SAP next year. They are a great club and I was sorry their first go at the start didn’t come off.

Great people down there. I look forward to seeing them make it work.

A

Name change from SAP to Premier Competition. tick

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Originally Posted by Alan

Good on ya champ!

Does NL ask coaches to have a minimum level coaching ticket for SAP? Our club requires only the Skill Training Certificate. We would of course love to have C Licensed coaches but it is such a big commitment both time and financially that I don't ever see it happening.

We are not one of the bigger clubs, so interested to know what other clubs require of their coaches?

A

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The club my girlfriend's son is at has one coach in the U9 with a C-Licence and the U10 has the skill training, apparently they try to get C-Licnece but speaking to the U9 coach he says difficult to find for all grades but all coaches must have the Skill Training Certificate and then get helped by other coaches and the TD.

Know next year the U11 team will have a C-Licence Youth coach and the U9 and U10 coaches will have Skill Training. The U12 coach they have slated should they get the numbers will have Skill as well but his assistant will have C-Licence Senior (one of the senior coaches is helping him out).

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Originally Posted by sapdad

They've talked about this since day 1 of SAP.Problem is they cant do it pre-season as there is too much player movement then once the season starts its logistically all too hard to re-draw/allocate grounds.i woudnt be relying on it actually happening next year.

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Apparently they want scores recorded from 9s to 12s next year though they won't be made public. Hopefully the reason they are doing it is to regrade all the teams halfway through the season so that those teams that dominate every week come up against competition and those that get smashed every week come up against competition they may be able to beat.

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Originally Posted by scowling

The only disappointment (and yea, first world problems) is that Adamstown again switched entire teams at half time.

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That's interesting, we played Adamstown and they didn't do that (maybe both teams were playing at same time at different locations).

I do know Edgy will choose their teams based on who they are playing. Was disappointing to see, we played one Edgy team and only just lost out to them (6-5 or something like that) yet played the "other team" a week or two later and saw some of the same players in the team. They for some reason sent us the weaker side and it wasn't really a challenge for our side, I know goals aren't counted but it was something like 8-1 at half time. Should just try and get teams even and keep them that way for the year.

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

That's interesting, we played Adamstown and they didn't do that (maybe both teams were playing at same time at different locations).

I do know Edgy will choose their teams based on who they are playing. Was disappointing to see, we played one Edgy team and only just lost out to them (6-5 or something like that) yet played the "other team" a week or two later and saw some of the same players in the team. They for some reason sent us the weaker side and it wasn't really a challenge for our side, I know goals aren't counted but it was something like 8-1 at half time. Should just try and get teams even and keep them that way for the year.

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Hey buddy, they future of SAP is at Valentine FC. That is the club with the best supporter and the nicest trees.
Jeepers creepers yeah!

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Originally Posted by Captain_Carl

Hey buddy, they future of SAP is at Valentine FC. That is the club with the best supporter and the nicest trees.
Jeepers creepers yeah!

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Best if you keep arguments from other threads in those threads champ.

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

That's interesting, we played Adamstown and they didn't do that (maybe both teams were playing at same time at different locations).

I do know Edgy will choose their teams based on who they are playing. Was disappointing to see, we played one Edgy team and only just lost out to them (6-5 or something like that) yet played the "other team" a week or two later and saw some of the same players in the team. They for some reason sent us the weaker side and it wasn't really a challenge for our side, I know goals aren't counted but it was something like 8-1 at half time. Should just try and get teams even and keep them that way for the year.

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

Best if you keep arguments from other threads in those threads champ.

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Do you want to meet for coffee and discuss your best route out of the quicksand? Valentine in going to appoint a new SAP TD soon that will rock the foundations of football in this entire region.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Carl

Do you want to meet for coffee and discuss your best route out of the quicksand? Valentine in going to appoint a new SAP TD soon that will rock the foundations of football in this entire region.

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Well they need it, but it isn't SAP they have the problems with.

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

Apparently they want scores recorded from 9s to 12s next year though they won't be made public. Hopefully the reason they are doing it is to regrade all the teams halfway through the season so that those teams that dominate every week come up against competition and those that get smashed every week come up against competition they may be able to beat.

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i totally understand this way of thinking.my only concern is this (and im going to use team examples here, please everyone dont bite back im trying to make a bigger point).
Ive been involved with SAP since the start so see a lot of the 11's at the moment.its clear clubs ike Olympic,Magic,Edgy and Jaffas are 4 of the stronger clubs.If you look at their 10 and 9 as well they are also well prepared.If you look at NPL 13 and up those same 4 clubs are usually in 4 of the top 5 in every grade every year.If we remove clubs like Adamstown and Lakes from having to play these 4 teams in SAP, do we make these clubs better?Do we let them beat teams every week in the B division or do we make them confront the standard bearers of the program more consistently so that by the time they get to 13's they know whats coming?I just feel like we should confront our shortcomings from the age of 9 rather than waste those years and get exposed at 13's.
now, i totally understand that for every club/coach and kid that gets motivated by getting flogged every week, you lose good kids from the game, so there is no one perfect route.id just rather kids/parents/coaches and clubs know whats expected from day 1 in under 9's rather than shield them a bit from what will inevitably hit them once all NPL clubs are graded together from 13.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

Apparently they want scores recorded from 9s to 12s next year though they won't be made public. Hopefully the reason they are doing it is to regrade all the teams halfway through the season so that those teams that dominate every week come up against competition and those that get smashed every week come up against competition they may be able to beat.

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NNSW football staff should have been looking at teams from day 1 2018 to coordinate this. There are parents and the players who can gauge and stream teams in all ages groups.

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Originally Posted by Jim

NNSW football staff should have been looking at teams from day 1 2018 to coordinate this. There are parents and the players who can gauge and stream teams in all ages groups.

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So what's the reason for taking scores put not publishing them?

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Originally Posted by sapdad

i totally understand this way of thinking.my only concern is this (and im going to use team examples here, please everyone dont bite back im trying to make a bigger point).
Ive been involved with SAP since the start so see a lot of the 11's at the moment.its clear clubs ike Olympic,Magic,Edgy and Jaffas are 4 of the stronger clubs.If you look at their 10 and 9 as well they are also well prepared.If you look at NPL 13 and up those same 4 clubs are usually in 4 of the top 5 in every grade every year.If we remove clubs like Adamstown and Lakes from having to play these 4 teams in SAP, do we make these clubs better?Do we let them beat teams every week in the B division or do we make them confront the standard bearers of the program more consistently so that by the time they get to 13's they know whats coming?I just feel like we should confront our shortcomings from the age of 9 rather than waste those years and get exposed at 13's.
now, i totally understand that for every club/coach and kid that gets motivated by getting flogged every week, you lose good kids from the game, so there is no one perfect route.id just rather kids/parents/coaches and clubs know whats expected from day 1 in under 9's rather than shield them a bit from what will inevitably hit them once all NPL clubs are graded together from 13.

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If Adamstown and Lakes SAP teams are going to get flogged then put them with other teams, those players if they don't improve won't be coming up against NPL teams in 13s. The entire SAP competition is from clubs in NewFM and NPL, my girlfriend's son is in a SAP side in a NewFM team they have lost 3 games this year one to an Edgy team (by one goal), one to a Jaffas team (by 2 goals) and one to a Jets girls side. They have flogged another Edgy team, beaten a Magic side, dominated against Adamstown and Weston. Put them and other in one group and the lower teams in the other one. They will learn how to lose but also how to win and develop so when they are in 13s they will be playing in a competition suited to their ability anyway. And just because you aren't in a SAP side from an NPL team now doesn't mean you will never play NPL

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

So what's the reason for taking scores put not publishing them?

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dunno. Maybe causes pissing contests all over town with artificial tables is my only guess.

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Originally Posted by Doopche

Or maybe it’s so teams don’t get flogged by 15-20 goals. Some of you dads have no idea whatsoever and shouldn’t be on forums. Why is it a bad thing to record scores and pool the better teams together? I don’t pay $1000 rego to watch lop sides games where both teams get nothing out of it. You pool the teams into 2 groups and the better teams play each other and lesser play each other. When the better teams from lower group start getting better they come up and if there are teams in harder comp are losing often then maybe they go down. How the hell can you morons find a negative in that? Starting to think you are mums and not dads with the amount of gossip and bitching that goes on in here.

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Did read the previous conversation? Instead of being an dipsh*t and not generalizing about "dads" having simple opinions youll notice that the consensus is to have the stronger teams playing against each other and thus not wasting your dole cheque. Were you dropped from a donkey at birth or did you develop simpletons disease on your own?

How about you leave so the rest of the normal people can chat about football stuff.

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Originally Posted by finzee

Did read the previous conversation? Instead of being an dipsh*t and not generalizing about "dads" having simple opinions you'll notice that the consensus is to have the stronger teams playing against each other and thus not wasting your dole cheque. Were you dropped from a donkey at birth or did you develop simpletons disease on your own?

How about you leave so the rest of the normal people can chat about football stuff.

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62 pages of SAP forum goodness... i'll summarise it in 5 sentences...

1. If you're getting beat by 20-30-40 goals, deal with it, don't expect mercy or compassion from your opponents, footballs don't have feelings.
2.If you're child's team, leaves the field crying because they got smashed deal with it, it's impossible to engineer a solution for "optimum development", or so that "all games are competitive", the current proposal is a step in the right direction.
3. Just let the kids have fun, no one is a striker, defender from U9's right through to first grade, all these precious parents crying about positions and formations is hilarious, support your kids to be good "footballers" and cherish any time on the park in any position.
4. Winning is development, someone has to lose and players will move clubs to join "winning teams" deal with it, just like parents move house to be in zone of "good schools", what example are you setting for your child?
5. If you have all the ideas, contact a club and coach a team. It will quite quickly become evident what a hinderance helicopter parenting can be to your child's love of the game, the club, and competition. Some of the most abhorrent behaviour I have seen from spectators/ parents is in the SAP space.

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Originally Posted by Doopche

Or maybe itÂ’s so teams donÂ’t get flogged by 15-20 goals. Some of you dads have no idea whatsoever and shouldnÂ’t be on forums. Why is it a bad thing to record scores and pool the better teams together? I donÂ’t pay $1000 rego to watch lop sides games where both teams get nothing out of it. You pool the teams into 2 groups and the better teams play each other and lesser play each other. When the better teams from lower group start getting better they come up and if there are teams in harder comp are losing often then maybe they go down. How the hell can you morons find a negative in that? Starting to think you are mums and not dads with the amount of gossip and bitching that goes on in here.

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ok, i wont address the name calling because ive got better things to do.but i will answer your questions.

Using typical 20 teams per grade as an example ranked 1-20 on skill level/previous results etc.
Team 10 will play the best teams every week. go look at who the 10th team is in the age group you watch. How many games will they 'win' against the 9 best? In my sons age group id safely say probably 2 or 3. even if they jagged a couple of results their parents are still paying $1000 rego every year to get beat way more than they win. which is exactly the thing you complained about. Whereas team 11 probably wins the majority of games even though they are 'not as good' as team 10.
Teams 15-20 are going to get crushed every week regardless. then let alone when the time comes for them to all be pooled together in 13's. Clubs who had players in teams 11-20 are going to be way behind the level expected. All im saying is that by exposing kids to the level expected from age 9 its going to hopefully get them up to speed earlier or maybe make them reconsider whether SAP is what they want. The idea of SAP is not to bring 250 kids up to 13's and have teams realise they arent good enough. SAP is designed to get 250 kids into 13's at a level that was better than the previous generation.All ive ever said is that if they know the standard from age 9 we all have a better chance of the 13's being ready.

this is why just ranking the success of teams based on results at these ages is (imho) short sighted. , and again, there is a ranked comp for kids that age.plenty of kids from that comp will go on to play NPL youth, no one has ever said its SAP or nothing.

I can totally see the other side of this argument, i just dont happen to agree with that method, especially on the way we've been sold what the SAP program is supposed to be about. You would do well to look at things from many angles before getting on here calling people names. we all might learn something.

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Originally Posted by Doopche

Well this reply near gave me a stroke reading that awful grammar. If a cared about offending uneducated fools like you I wouldn’t comment on here. You wouldn’t know football from ice hockey so best you leave the group.

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Lol. You a bit offended. Go back and finish yr7 dullard.

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Originally Posted by Doopche

Or maybe it’s so teams don’t get flogged by 15-20 goals. Some of you dads have no idea whatsoever and shouldn’t be on forums. Why is it a bad thing to record scores and pool the better teams together? I don’t pay $1000 rego to watch lop sides games where both teams get nothing out of it. You pool the teams into 2 groups and the better teams play each other and lesser play each other. When the better teams from lower group start getting better they come up and if there are teams in harder comp are losing often then maybe they go down. How the hell can you morons find a negative in that? Starting to think you are mums and not dads with the amount of gossip and bitching that goes on in here.

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Which is exactly what this "Dad" said I hope what they will be doing and why they are taking scores



Also sorry Jim, read your comment wrong when you said Northern should have been looking at teams from day 1 I thought you said Northern have been looking at team from day 1

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

Which is exactly what this "Dad" said I hope what they will be doing and why they are taking scores

Also sorry Jim, read your comment wrong when you said Northern should have been looking at teams from day 1 I thought you said Northern have been looking at team from day 1

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Its ok. Most on here are just trying to improve our local football experience for the kids so that the area can be stronger and better equipped.

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Originally Posted by Doopche

So what’s the gossip today dads/mums? Did little Robby’s team beat little Bobby’s team? Was the winner offside or onside? Did nnsw have a biased ref or was it the coaches fault for not making the right subs at the correct part of the game. Come on we need the weekend wrap I need to update my home made table.

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Hi Doopche,

Perhaps you could give us a wrap on the games you saw this weekend? I think it would be far better to add some value than just present a mocking tone. It's strange because in the short while I have been coming to this page you sometimes provide useful insights, and sometimes not. I much prefer the former.

I saw bits of a few games out at the facility on Saturday. Olympic 12s were very dominant against Edgy. I caught a little of the Jaffas younger SAP teams against Edgy which looked even and a little of Magic teams against a girls team and maybe a Lakes team. magic seemed to be dominant but I didn't see enough to know scores.

As I have said on here before the Olympic 12s are very good. And no, I'm not from Olympic! but our club has played them and they are excellent. They will take some beating next year in the 13s.

A