2020 Premier Club SAP

[sapdad]

When you're the dominant team.
Whilst agreeing with you in principle, I'd argue that scoring double digit goals against an opposition that is just no longer in the contest is not great for learning outcomes (for either side).

yes i can see all sides of the argument but can you share with us what is expected of your team if you do start to dominate.there was a bit of discussion on it yesterday from some of the parents. some thought that the opposition coaching staff (and even parents) needed to be shown whats expected of kids to succeed in this program, and if standards arent being met them knowing what to do.i know if my kid was very clearly behind his peers then id not be paying top dollar rego fees and take a different approach to seeing him enjoy his football.i saw a lot of miserable kids over the weekend it wasnt great.

[scowling]

yes i can see all sides of the argument but can you share with us what is expected of your team if you do start to dominate.there was a bit of discussion on it yesterday from some of the parents. some thought that the opposition coaching staff (and even parents) needed to be shown whats expected of kids to succeed in this program, and if standards arent being met them knowing what to do.i know if my kid was very clearly behind his peers then id not be paying top dollar rego fees and take a different approach to seeing him enjoy his football.i saw a lot of miserable kids over the weekend it wasnt great.

Direct quote:
10 goals ahead, change to 2-touch football. This forces our players to work smarter so they get more out of the game, and hopefully evens the match up. If we get 15 goals ahead then we take a player off the field.

I guess finding the balance between allowing the kids a chance to increase their skills and their football education and showing them they don't belong in this company is hard. I'm not sure we'll need to go this path with my team this year, but I'll be chasing up with the TD to ask more questions about it.

Personally, as coach, I'll be catching up with parents many times during the season and part of that will be giving them the information they will require to make a decision to continue at this level next season. That then informs their financial commitment.

I'd be concerned if your scenario above played out too many times - surely the blame lies with the process that allowed them to get this far?

[cobra23]

Can someone tell me,
The games that got washed out over the weekend, surly they will catch them up ?

[The Dunster]

Direct quote:
10 goals ahead, change to 2-touch football. This forces our players to work smarter so they get more out of the game, and hopefully evens the match up. If we get 15 goals ahead then we take a player off the field.

I guess finding the balance between allowing the kids a chance to increase their skills and their football education and showing them they don't belong in this company is hard. I'm not sure we'll need to go this path with my team this year, but I'll be chasing up with the TD to ask more questions about it.

Personally, as coach, I'll be catching up with parents many times during the season and part of that will be giving them the information they will require to make a decision to continue at this level next season. That then informs their financial commitment.

I'd be concerned if your scenario above played out too many times - surely the blame lies with the process that allowed them to get this far?

The majority of the kids in these programs are not going to even be good enough to play at NPL level. That's nobody's fault it's just simple arithmetic.
As far as A-league standard products go you could be looking at maybe one kid every five years or so that gets a start.

[sapdad]

I'd be concerned if your scenario above played out too many times - surely the blame lies with the process that allowed them to get this far?

yes, yesterday was the worst ive seen so far and with 2 teams playing side by side it stood out more.wed heard earlier in the day another good team put up a similar score so theres 3 teams in one day who copped a pretty fair hiding. again, this being the 3rd year most of these kids are in the program it asked the question of whats going on at some clubs. the counterpoint is (and after reading a lot of this forum) there needs to be enough availability for good kids to get into these programs, especially as they get older. to crack some of the good teams squads at age 11 isnt easy with limited number so theres a chance a lot of kids are outside the catchment and might not get the chance.id love to see some of the clubs who arent doing as well get more active in their recruitment and maybe encourage some inner city kids to travel a bit to get a chance.they can schedule training times around making it easier and if kids want it badly enough then you make it happen.not every club 5minutes from home has a spot for your kid.

[Aegon]

Can someone tell me,
The games that got washed out over the weekend, surly they will catch them up ?

Going off previous years, no. They don’t play catch up games.

[scowling]

yes, yesterday was the worst ive seen so far and with 2 teams playing side by side it stood out more.wed heard earlier in the day another good team put up a similar score so theres 3 teams in one day who copped a pretty fair hiding. again, this being the 3rd year most of these kids are in the program it asked the question of whats going on at some clubs. the counterpoint is (and after reading a lot of this forum) there needs to be enough availability for good kids to get into these programs, especially as they get older. to crack some of the good teams squads at age 11 isnt easy with limited number so theres a chance a lot of kids are outside the catchment and might not get the chance.id love to see some of the clubs who arent doing as well get more active in their recruitment and maybe encourage some inner city kids to travel a bit to get a chance.they can schedule training times around making it easier and if kids want it badly enough then you make it happen.not every club 5minutes from home has a spot for your kid.

My first thought was to limit clubs to one team per age group - artificially forcing the talent into the other clubs .. but I imagine the clubs with two teams would hate this. There's a reason they have two teams in 9s/10s/11s/12s

Maybe some of the older heads on the forum have had this discussion before? What's the solution guys ?

[sapdad]

The majority of the kids in these programs are not going to even be good enough to play at NPL level. That's nobody's fault it's just simple arithmetic.
As far as A-league standard products go you could be looking at maybe one kid every five years or so that gets a start.

i think this is the entire point of the program.get enough kids for each club to have a strong future NPL squad of home grown/developed talent.teams from this program are already travelling to compare themselves with kids in other areas.some are stacking up well others are at least seeing whats needed in order to make it.a strong NPL will produce more Jets level players than Jets youth will anyway if history is any indication.theres quite a few old time professional footballers with kids in this program and they seem to believe in it so just being a dad with a kid that loves football and fits into a team its enough for me.

[scowling]

The majority of the kids in these programs are not going to even be good enough to play at NPL level. That's nobody's fault it's just simple arithmetic.
As far as A-league standard products go you could be looking at maybe one kid every five years or so that gets a start.

Yeah I agree Dunster - out of a pool of what? 150 U9 SAP players this year(?) the chances are slim that one kid makes it all the way.
However I'd temper that with the thought that if we raised the overall level of skill (by whatever artificial means necessary) would we increase the chances of it happening? The numbers aren't a reason not to try are they?

[Negative Police]

These 60 minute games arent great for the competition that we have. At least when teams swap the score is reset and a chance to fix weakness.

[Captain_Carl]

The majority of the kids in these programs are not going to even be good enough to play at NPL level. That's nobody's fault it's just simple arithmetic.
As far as A-league standard products go you could be looking at maybe one kid every five years or so that gets a start.

Although the zone SAP in its its final year before club SAP is fully established from U9-U12 I want to give you some stats that may or may not surprise you. Last year in Macquarie U12s there were 3 teams, 38 kids in total. How many of those 38 are playing NPL this year? 36.

In Youth NPL we currently have 4 Lake Macquarie based clubs (Edgeworth, Lake Macquarie, Valentine, Charlestown), 4 Newcastle based clubs (Lambton, Broadmeadow, Hamilton and Adamstown) and 2 Hunter Valley based clubs (Maitland and Weston). There is also North Coast and Mid Coast but as none of them will draw upon kids from our local region let’s put them aside for a moment.

So we have 10 NPL teams and each U13 team can take a maximum of 16 players. Some clubs opt for 15 while some choose 16. Therefore we need anywhere from 150-160 kids each year to fill those 10 teams. Where will they all come from? Happy to hear everyone’s thoughts.

[Jim]

Yeah I agree Dunster - out of a pool of what? 150 U9 SAP players this year(?) the chances are slim that one kid makes it all the way.
However I'd temper that with the thought that if we raised the overall level of skill (by whatever artificial means necessary) would we increase the chances of it happening? The numbers aren't a reason not to try are they?

And how many in Sydney and Melbourne are also developing higher at a younger age? I agree you need to try and aim higher at all times.

If you arent in the big city, chances are much less for mine

[Jim]

Although the zone SAP in its its final year before club SAP is fully established from U9-U12 I want to give you some stats that may or may not surprise you. Last year in Macquarie U12s there were 3 teams, 38 kids in total. How many of those 38 are playing NPL this year? 36.

In Youth NPL we currently have 4 Lake Macquarie based clubs (Edgeworth, Lake Macquarie, Valentine, Charlestown), 4 Newcastle based clubs (Lambton, Broadmeadow, Hamilton and Adamstown) and 2 Hunter Valley based clubs (Maitland and Weston). There is also North Coast and Mid Coast but as none of them will draw upon kids from our local region let’s put them aside for a moment.

So we have 10 NPL teams and each U13 team can take a maximum of 16 players. Some clubs opt for 15 while some choose 16. Therefore we need anywhere from 150-160 kids each year to fill those 10 teams. Where will they all come from? Happy to hear everyone’s thoughts.

Another question.

How many will make it beyond nnsw npl?

[Captain_Carl]

Another question.

How many will make it beyond nnsw npl?

Some will get picked up by the bigger NPL competitions such as Victoria and NSW and out of, for example this year’s U13s perhaps 1 at the very most will make the A-League.

[sapdad]

So we have 10 NPL teams and each U13 team can take a maximum of 16 players. Some clubs opt for 15 while some choose 16. Therefore we need anywhere from 150-160 kids each year to fill those 10 teams. Where will they all come from? Happy to hear everyone’s thoughts.

im guessing 2021 will be an issue but from 2022 when the first group of SAP kids graduate from the program each club having 2 teams automatically has 22 kids to choose from to make a squad.the hope has always been that those 22 will be better prepared for NPL than previous generations due to the 4 years of structured training and games.Clubs with one SAP team are balanced out by some SAP clubs not having NPL youth so those kids should fill the gaps.add in the late bloomers,kids from ID's etc and the numbers should be there and hopefully each year the 13's entering NPL will be better prepared than the year before as the program evolves.
hopefully as the SAP kids hit the NPL and have 4 years of club loyalty the NPL clubs who arent keeping up with the SAP program will understand how serious some clubs take it and refocus.SAP clubs like Magic/Olympic/Jaffas/Edgy have a ready made youth squad sitting there.they'll be fine.

[Captain_Carl]

im guessing 2021 will be an issue but from 2022 when the first group of SAP kids graduate from the program each club having 2 teams automatically has 22 kids to choose from to make a squad.the hope has always been that those 22 will be better prepared for NPL than previous generations due to the 4 years of structured training and games.Clubs with one SAP team are balanced out by some SAP clubs not having NPL youth so those kids should fill the gaps.add in the late bloomers,kids from ID's etc and the numbers should be there and hopefully each year the 13's entering NPL will be better prepared than the year before as the program evolves.
hopefully as the SAP kids hit the NPL and have 4 years of club loyalty the NPL clubs who arent keeping up with the SAP program will understand how serious some clubs take it and refocus.SAP clubs like Magic/Olympic/Jaffas/Edgy have a ready made youth squad sitting there.they'll be fine.

I certainly agree that the new system is more likely to create loyalty to clubs and that is a good thing. What I don’t necessarily agree with is the new system is going to make boys better prepared for NPL. In the zone sap it was the best kids from every zone i.e. Newcastle, Macquarie, Hunter Valley plus the Emerging jets. In the new system it is the best from each club. The quality of coach will be the determining factor on how prepared or otherwise the players will be. There are certain age groups that go through the system that stand out more than others. I would encourage SAP parents to take their sons/daughters to watch some under 13 NPL games this season if possible. It would be the strongest age group To go through for some time as apart from Macquarie taking an extra team last year, the emerging jets boys have fallen into the system as well by default of being too young for the Sydney NPL.

[sapdad]

The quality of coach will be the determining factor on how prepared or otherwise the players will be.

i cannot agree with you more here.the difference in coaching enthusiasm, ability and intelligence has been massive.i think thats why some clubs have tied their SAP squads to their senior teams.some train in the same place, some go to the same pressos,some ballboy for 1st grade,some have exhibition games during NPL games.all to get the kids understanding what it takes.its these small things that the smart clubs are doing that will hopefully have an effect later on.



also agree on the NPL youth.saw a lot of Olympic and Magic especially over the last 2 seasons.as impressive as the kids are, the coaching staff have been equally as brilliant.a lot of the SAP coaches could do worse than spend some time watching some of these clubs and the way they treat their kids.

[Aegon]

I certainly agree that the new system is more likely to create loyalty to clubs and that is a good thing. What I don’t necessarily agree with is the new system is going to make boys better prepared for NPL. In the zone sap it was the best kids from every zone i.e. Newcastle, Macquarie, Hunter Valley plus the Emerging jets. In the new system it is the best from each club. The quality of coach will be the determining factor on how prepared or otherwise the players will be. There are certain age groups that go through the system that stand out more than others. I would encourage SAP parents to take their sons/daughters to watch some under 13 NPL games this season if possible. It would be the strongest age group To go through for some time as apart from Macquarie taking an extra team last year, the emerging jets boys have fallen into the system as well by default of being too young for the Sydney NPL.

Under the Zone SAP only about what... 50-60 kids were receiving the benefit of the training under that system?
The premier club system should provide a similar level of training to approx 250 kids.

Only a few clubs tended to get these players after the Zone SAP wrapped up which results in an unbalanced NPL Yth that stifles development through lack of a challenge.

[Captain_Carl]

Under the Zone SAP only about what... 50-60 kids were receiving the benefit of the training under that system?
The premier club system should provide a similar level of training to approx 250 kids.

Only a few clubs tended to get these players after the Zone SAP wrapped up which results in an unbalanced NPL Yth that stifles development through lack of a challenge.

The level of training is only similar if the standard of coaches is similar across the board. While not every coach in zone SAP was great they did tend to attract some of the better ones. I think in club SAP it will be a bit more hit and miss.

[sapdad]

The level of training is only similar if the standard of coaches is similar across the board. While not every coach in zone SAP was great they did tend to attract some of the better ones. I think in club SAP it will be a bit more hit and miss.

yes id like to think that one of the first things clubs do is appoint a (paid) TD with proper knowledge and experience so there is someone at club level teaching the coaches. individual SAP coaches are never going to be all fantastic, but if clubs prioritise the program and at least help the coaches along it should pay dividends.i think most of the good SAP clubs have TD's in place already as part of their youth setups.