2022 NPL Youth thread

[Aegon]

There is a draft proposal out there for the decoupling
Here are the key points
NNSWF have consulted widely through a decoupling working group
Failure of current NL1 clubs to field team in all age groups had undermined the competition
NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out.
Clubs that are in the NPL must have (not negotiable):
• Teams in all age groups
• An approved Youth Development Plan
• Head coaches with C
• Technical Director with C
• Budget submitted annually
• Fees submitted an approved by NNSWF
• Venue approved by NNSWF
• Level 2 sports trainer at all games
Under 18s move to youth day
From 2023 onwards:
-Pre season cup (clubs no longer required to arrange trial games)
-Revamped League season: a two part season where clubs can earn promotion / relegation once during the season. Each new level of the Premier Youth League will have a grand final
-Two knockout cups
-Summer series

1. Pre season Cup and Plate: seeding based on club championship
Cup – top 12 clubs from previous season
Plate – 13th to 24th from previous season
World cup style format
Played at home ground or, if unavailable, LMRFF (for a fee of course)
2. Premier Youth League
In 2023 the Premier Youth League will have 3 smaller leagues. All teams start 2023 in the same tier as they finish 2022 pending any clubs being promoted (hello New Lambton!) Each club will play each other once. Top 8 clubs in div 1 form League A, remainder of division 1 plus top 4 of division 2 form League B, bottom 8 teams of division 2 form League C. All points/goals etc reset. Clubs in each new League play each other once
At end of season, all clubs in League A plus the top 4 of League B will form Division 1 for the next season. The rest of League B and all League C form Division 2 for the next season.

Having seen the proposal, it looks good. Very fluid year to year.

A minimum of 1 and potentially 4 poor performing NPL clubs could find themselves in Youth Division 2 by 2024.
3 NL1 clubs will have the opportunity to get into Youth Division 1 by 2024.

My only concern is the number of games, the proposal might have been inaccurate but NPL clubs could go from 24 regular season games down to 19. NL1 will be approximately the same amount of games. But there is clear opportunity based on the structure to have a 25-26 game season for all youth teams.

However the reduced league games may be made up by the proposed Pre-season and In-season cups?

[Spell Check]

There is a draft proposal out there for the decoupling
Here are the key points
NNSWF have consulted widely through a decoupling working group
Failure of current NL1 clubs to field team in all age groups had undermined the competition
NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out.
Clubs that are in the NPL must have (not negotiable):
• Teams in all age groups
• An approved Youth Development Plan
• Head coaches with C
• Technical Director with C
• Budget submitted annually
• Fees submitted an approved by NNSWF
• Venue approved by NNSWF
• Level 2 sports trainer at all games
Under 18s move to youth day
From 2023 onwards:
-Pre season cup (clubs no longer required to arrange trial games)
-Revamped League season: a two part season where clubs can earn promotion / relegation once during the season. Each new level of the Premier Youth League will have a grand final
-Two knockout cups
-Summer series

1. Pre season Cup and Plate: seeding based on club championship
Cup – top 12 clubs from previous season
Plate – 13th to 24th from previous season
World cup style format
Played at home ground or, if unavailable, LMRFF (for a fee of course)
2. Premier Youth League
In 2023 the Premier Youth League will have 3 smaller leagues. All teams start 2023 in the same tier as they finish 2022 pending any clubs being promoted (hello New Lambton!) Each club will play each other once. Top 8 clubs in div 1 form League A, remainder of division 1 plus top 4 of division 2 form League B, bottom 8 teams of division 2 form League C. All points/goals etc reset. Clubs in each new League play each other once
At end of season, all clubs in League A plus the top 4 of League B will form Division 1 for the next season. The rest of League B and all League C form Division 2 for the next season.

If this is the official proposal, I genuinely can't fault it. It's well considered and seems to have real opportunity for youth development. I can't believe Northern came up with it!

I really like some of the non negotiable parts, like:
- budgets/fees submitted to Northern (this should hopefully address those questions of 1st grade payments)
- coaching requirements (I know this is an annoyance for many and it doesn't mean coaches are better than those without a ticket, but you've got to start somewhere. Would be nice to see some grants for coaches to get tickets for free/reduced fees)
- teams in all age groups (no brainer. Let's see if the one in/all in actually happens though. We've seen it all before)
- sports trainer at all games (about bloody time!)
- approved Youth Development Plan (yes! And Northern should be writing the template and holding clubs to following these. We need consistency in the minimum number of days clubs train, what they are coaching on. I know its a comp and everyone is out to win, but some philosophy behind it all would be awesome. We are trying make these kids better after all, so having one team play out and another just long ball does nobody any good)
- knockout cups and summer series (yes! yes! yes! The quicker clubs or old hands around town realise football isn't just a winter sport anymore the better)

Any club not backing this has an agenda. If it doesn't happen, name and shame those who held it back so parents can see which clubs to avoid taking their kids to.

[Spell Check]

Having seen the proposal, it looks good. Very fluid year to year.

A minimum of 1 and potentially 4 poor performing NPL clubs could find themselves in Youth Division 2 by 2024.
3 NL1 clubs will have the opportunity to get into Youth Division 1 by 2024.

My only concern is the number of games, the proposal might have been inaccurate but NPL clubs could go from 24 regular season games down to 19. NL1 will be approximately the same amount of games. But there is clear opportunity based on the structure to have a 25-26 game season for all youth teams.

However the reduced league games may be made up by the proposed Pre-season and In-season cups?

Agree Aegon. It's very good.

I have no issue with the potentially reduced games if the cups/summer/pre-season comps get the tick. Kids will get more out of knockout comps than an extra 5/6 games against mid-level opposition.

[sapdad]

Add me to the list of people who like this.Well done to whoever put it together and the quicker we get on with it the better.I wonder if this means that New Lambton youth wont be automatically promoted next season as it would make the top division 14 teams unless they plan on relegating 6 teams in year one and going forward with 12 from then on.Or are they contemplating relegating 1 club straight away at the end of this year?It would probably ruffle more feathers than they need to do right now.

[Barry Dawson]

It is a good model.

What it means for any club that is promoted into NPL for 2023 is that they would play the first round against other NPL clubs and then dependant upon those results, they would either stay in Pool A or fall into Pool B. Then based on the rest of season results, would either remain in Pool B for start of 2024 or go back into the top tier for start of 2024.

Puts the destiny of clubs in their own hands.

[JustMe]

Add me to the list of people who like this.Well done to whoever put it together and the quicker we get on with it the better.I wonder if this means that New Lambton youth wont be automatically promoted next season as it would make the top division 14 teams unless they plan on relegating 6 teams in year one and going forward with 12 from then on.Or are they contemplating relegating 1 club straight away at the end of this year?It would probably ruffle more feathers than they need to do right now.

This is very close to the NSW NPL in Sydney. If they can agree on it then it must be a decent model.

Love the mid year pro/rel. Rewards teams that improve in the off season.

Just hurry up and rubber stamp it and stop wasting time and $$$

[Hunter403]

I like it a lot.

However.....I have been told that having the five youth teams (13,14,15,18,18) is compulsory to be an NPL club but not a NL1 club. Given the reluctance for NNSWF to bring in promotion/relegation between those two divisions and the barriers applied for NPL admission (finance, grounds etc), how many NL1 will get themselves involved? Several can't raise teams now. How will this magically change that situation? Will NL1 clubs embrace the challenge or will they just not bother? How will kids be encouraged to move up from community league to fill the teams? Will fees be regulated (or should they be)?

I think there are some NL1 clubs that will walk away from this as they either have no NPL ambition or the hoops for it are just to high and numerous. Simpler for clubs to look after community teams than "premier" teams and far cheaper for parents.

[Eastwest]

I like it a lot.

However.....I have been told that having the five youth teams (13,14,15,18,18) is compulsory to be an NPL club but not a NL1 club. Given the reluctance for NNSWF to bring in promotion/relegation between those two divisions and the barriers applied for NPL admission (finance, grounds etc), how many NL1 will get themselves involved? Several can't raise teams now. How will this magically change that situation? Will NL1 clubs embrace the challenge or will they just not bother? How will kids be encouraged to move up from community league to fill the teams? Will fees be regulated (or should they be)?

I think there are some NL1 clubs that will walk away from this as they either have no NPL ambition or the hoops for it are just to high and numerous. Simpler for clubs to look after community teams than "premier" teams and far cheaper for parents.

NL1 currently have their 18s with seniors. They can slot in.

If they cant or wont then they dont go up. Clubs have to be accountable at some point

Fees should be regulated and or subsidized by SA. We already have a few places that money is being spent where it is most undeserved.

[Spell Check]

I think there are some NL1 clubs that will walk away from this as they either have no NPL ambition or the hoops for it are just to high and numerous. Simpler for clubs to look after community teams than "premier" teams and far cheaper for parents.

I suspect you are right Hunter. But would a few clubs walking away and kids going back to community be such a bad thing? The fewer clubs, the higher the standard of players playing you would think. Yes it might mean a few less games over the course of the season. Or might mean a comp where teams play each other 3x instead of twice? Either way, Northern cannot let losing a few clubs stop this. It will make youth better, it will make community better, and it should make seniors better in the long run too.

Let's hope it gets a guernsey.

[BBscone]

I suspect you are right Hunter. But would a few clubs walking away and kids going back to community be such a bad thing? The fewer clubs, the higher the standard of players playing you would think. Yes it might mean a few less games over the course of the season. Or might mean a comp where teams play each other 3x instead of twice? Either way, Northern cannot let losing a few clubs stop this. It will make youth better, it will make community better, and it should make seniors better in the long run too.

Let's hope it gets a guernsey.

Reading between the lines I think this is what they expect to happen. Weak fold. Strong thrive. Short or Long term. It won't matter. At least it's something. Thank F#&*. Next step. Fix NPLW, it is a basket case. And put the heat on Men's programs using the youth as the catalyst to pro/rel. Then Northern might scrape by with a pass mark.

[sapdad]

I wonder what the reasoning is behind 18's being part of youth?Does that mean they will be playing on the same day?Seems strange to be making matchdays 5 games for youth and 2 for Seniors.

[terry]

I think there are some NL1 clubs that will walk away from this as they either have no NPL ambition or the hoops for it are just to high and numerous. Simpler for clubs to look after community teams than "premier" teams and far cheaper for parents.

This is what we really need. Kids to go where they are happy. Parents free to choose. We've had clubs clinging to grades for too long. It's time to cut and let coaches, players, families and clubs find out where they really fit.

Allowing for up 24 clubs is stupidity. We barely have 16. Any 3rd tier is good community.

To really be competitive at the level. We really only have 8 for NPL and & 8 for NPL1 if we're lucky. Even at 16 we are scraping.
The rest are there because they have to be talked into it or theyre there to fill an empty spot.

It's be so clear for so long.

I loved it when Rosebuds youth were in NPL1 Sydney in the 80s. Those Youth were as good if not tougher and better than today. Thats not because of talent either. We've always had it in abundance here.

[KITZ]

There is a draft proposal out there for the decoupling
Here are the key points
NNSWF have consulted widely through a decoupling working group
Failure of current NL1 clubs to field team in all age groups had undermined the competition
NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out.
Clubs that are in the NPL must have (not negotiable):
• Teams in all age groups
• An approved Youth Development Plan
• Head coaches with C
• Technical Director with C
• Budget submitted annually
• Fees submitted an approved by NNSWF
• Venue approved by NNSWF
• Level 2 sports trainer at all games
Under 18s move to youth day
From 2023 onwards:
-Pre season cup (clubs no longer required to arrange trial games)
-Revamped League season: a two part season where clubs can earn promotion / relegation once during the season. Each new level of the Premier Youth League will have a grand final
-Two knockout cups
-Summer series

1. Pre season Cup and Plate: seeding based on club championship
Cup – top 12 clubs from previous season
Plate – 13th to 24th from previous season
World cup style format
Played at home ground or, if unavailable, LMRFF (for a fee of course)
2. Premier Youth League
In 2023 the Premier Youth League will have 3 smaller leagues. All teams start 2023 in the same tier as they finish 2022 pending any clubs being promoted (hello New Lambton!) Each club will play each other once. Top 8 clubs in div 1 form League A, remainder of division 1 plus top 4 of division 2 form League B, bottom 8 teams of division 2 form League C. All points/goals etc reset. Clubs in each new League play each other once
At end of season, all clubs in League A plus the top 4 of League B will form Division 1 for the next season. The rest of League B and all League C form Division 2 for the next season.

Not sure the 18's will be happy. Quite a few play 18's and reserves, will they still be considered part of the senior squad? - its also a VERY long day for volunteers starting at 7-8am turn up for 13's and 16s don't finish till 4, that means a 6pm - 7pm finish on that day? Wonder how thought through that was. I mean its nice to be able to push 16s up to 18s without the game day conflicts (as currently 18s often play at the same time and day as the 16s), but I'm not sure if its easily resolved.

Wonder how semi's will work 8 teams and 4 make the semis, sounds like the Aleague?

NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out. - This will have interesting implications, cooks couldn't field a 16s this year and it was their first year in. Does this mean northern are going to stop allowing clubs to participate even when not fielding a team is beyond their control? I mean you can't have half your squad playing an age up every week just to meet the requirements, injuries will soon mean you don't have enough for 2 age groups. Then what, you have 13-15s all of a sudden with nowhere to play for an entire year because by the time they have lodged their squads every other club is full? What about the flow on effects to the JDL, who all of a sudden also have nowhere to go the next season?

[Barry Dawson]

18’s will stay with seniors. That was sorted after final consultation with clubs

[terry]

Wonder how semi's will work 8 teams and 4 make the semis, sounds like the Aleague?

NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out. - This will have interesting implications, cooks couldn't field a 16s this year and it was their first year in. Does this mean northern are going to stop allowing clubs to participate even when not fielding a team is beyond their control? I mean you can't have half your squad playing an age up every week just to meet the requirements, injuries will soon mean you don't have enough for 2 age groups. Then what, you have 13-15s all of a sudden with nowhere to play for an entire year because by the time they have lodged their squads every other club is full? What about the flow on effects to the JDL, who all of a sudden also have nowhere to go the next season?

fair point about 18s needing to playup with seniors.

Yep. if you cant field a grade fk off and rightly so.

ffs they are NPL clubs, they need to do their job. With 8 teams in NPL they fill all squads piece of p*ss. Stop with this 12 team diarrhea. If they try this it has already failed. bookmark this quote.

The clubs need to grow up and follow the rules and give the league some credibility.

And parents need to make clear decisions about where they want their kids to play to help the clubs achieve this.

[sapdad]

How many clubs are realistically struggling to fill grades in NPL/Nl1? I know about Cookers 16's, are there more? Will NNSW actually struggle to fill 24 youth teams across 2 divisions?

[terry]

How many clubs are realistically struggling to fill grades in NPL/Nl1? I know about Cookers 16's, are there more? Will NNSW actually struggle to fill 24 youth teams across 2 divisions?

yep its worse than you think. Sounds like we need some hard truths to surface.

Are you assuming Rosebuds, Weston, Cooks hill, Lake Mac are filling NPL with Youth? I wish those clubs were better. But they arent and they'd be lucky to press NL1teams/community teams. Get those 15s to have a trial v Bolwarra 15s.

So out of 12 teams the top 8 are realistically competitive. By the time we drop 4 hopefully those 8 would bolster all of their age groups to be competitive 1st to last. This sadly includes North C and Mid C.

Next NL1 - 16s missing 3 teams, 15s 1, 14s 2, 13s 2. Thats 8 teams out of the needed 40 (not inc NIAS) what a ****fest.

We have crap all chance of having 24 quality teams 13-16s. Even at 20 clubs NL1 will still have the usual 15-0 results which is what we are trying to avoid.

Need 8 in NPL, 8 in NPL1 and if we need to have some other clubs feel important which is what started this rubbish, have a development 3rd tier.
Otherwise we are just polishing the turd with new names.

[WOW2.0]

...
We have crap all chance of having 24 quality teams 13-16s. Even at 20 clubs NL1 will still have the usual 15-0 results which is what we are trying to avoid.

Probably no league has 20 quality teams though, not even the Premier League...there will always be a gap

In an 8 team league though, how often would they play each other? We already pay far fewer games then Sydney or Melbourne

[terry]

Probably no league has 20 quality teams though, not even the Premier League...there will always be a gap

In an 8 team league though, how often would they play each other? We already pay far fewer games then Sydney or Melbourne

Fair point and its not great but we have to wear that for the greater good.

No use playing 11 different teams when 6 of them are 8-0. Have to get over not playing many other colours to play against.

We only deserve 8 teams at this point. 3 rounds. Have a pro/rel after the first round. changes up 1 team.

We have cups where teams can play others. How about designing a gala round with some NPL3 or Association Youth league Sydney teams.

If we get creative and put the do-ers in the Northern chairs we could kill it.

[Captain_Carl]

Fair point and its not great but we have to wear that for the greater good.

No use playing 11 different teams when 6 of them are 8-0. Have to get over not playing many other colours to play against.

We only deserve 8 teams at this point. 3 rounds. Have a pro/rel after the first round. changes up 1 team.

We have cups where teams can play others. How about designing a gala round with some NPL3 or Association Youth league Sydney teams.

If we get creative and put the do-ers in the Northern chairs we could kill it.

In an 8 team comp there should be 4 rounds. 2 home and 2 away games against each team to make a total of 28 games. This is aligned to Football Australia’s XI Principles, one of which being that we need to be playing more games to stay in touch with the rest of our region.