2024 Premier Youth Leagues

[Taffy]

If a kid is on the team sheet but doesn't step on the pitch does that mean they have 'played'?

Because there is no way to prove he didn't then yes.

I suspect there are plenty of examples of players playing up that also have their name on their correct age team sheet with no intention of playing. I am always surprised by how many upsets there are in the finals series, and I suspect this issue has a bit to do with it.

Your example doesn't work because it accounts total games listed on the team sheet by the player and it means they have to not be listed on their correct age which means they never played their age in those games and if they never stepping on the pitch then they didn't play any game

Your example can go the other way though, if you have a spare slot, list the player in his age even if the player never takes the field and allow him to play age up. I know of one coach that did this a few years ago, so when his team made finals that player who had actually played up an age all year and never his own could come back and play his own age because the team sheets had him playing both games every week.

[Gman]

I agree and understand the logic but it should be only where there is no other solution. I have seen one club where there 13?s keeper who is one of the best around is standing on the sidelines watching the 15s keeper play down. I am not sure if the club is telling a different story to NNSWF than the reality but they have done it from all reports 3 or 4 times other times this season when the 13s keeper was available.

[Izzy]

Because there is no way to prove he didn't then yes.



Your example can go the other way though, if you have a spare slot, list the player in his age even if the player never takes the field and allow him to play age up. I know of one coach that did this a few years ago, so when his team made finals that player who had actually played up an age all year and never his own could come back and play his own age because the team sheets had him playing both games every week.

This is the point I was (obviously poorly) trying to make. Thanks for confirming that it does actually happen.

[Taffy]

I agree and understand the logic but it should be only where there is no other solution. I have seen one club where there 13?s keeper who is one of the best around is standing on the sidelines watching the 15s keeper play down. I am not sure if the club is telling a different story to NNSWF than the reality but they have done it from all reports 3 or 4 times other times this season when the 13s keeper was available.

Bit of a joke really, Northern talk about upholding the integrity of their competitions and how it is a premier competition but allow this DivA club to do this

[Gman]

Bit of a joke really, Northern talk about upholding the integrity of their competitions and how it is a premier competition but allow this DivA club to do this

How they let any club get away with it to be honest. To hear that they are not allowing some clubs who have multiple injured players to do it and then let others do it at will to secure points is crazy. But you?re 100% right this is my first year at Northern and I can see what everyone complains about 🤷*♂️

[Skimmer]

This is the point I was (obviously poorly) trying to make. Thanks for confirming that it does actually happen.

Trophies mean more than the players most of the time. You welcome.

[WOW2.0]

The competition rule that covers Goal Keepers playing down an age group

8.3. Player Eligibility Exemptions

(a) Players are not permitted to play down into an age group or grade lower than they are age eligible for with the exception of:
(i) In the event of an injury or unavailability to a Goalkeeper and the subsequent goalkeeper from the age group or grade below is unable to participate, Clubs must complete and submit the following form Eligibility Form allowing for permission to play the Goalkeeper from the corresponding next age group or grade above. Premier Youth League Boy?s | Competition Rules 2024 | P a g e | 9
(ii) The Eligibility Form must be completed and submitted by a Club Executive or the Club Technical Director by or before 9am the next Business Day following the completion of the Match.
(iii) Clubs are responsible for collecting and storing applicable evidence to support the usage of a Goalkeeper from the higher age group which may be requested by NNSWF.
(iv) In the event a Player or Goalkeeper does not meet the above criteria, Clubs may apply in writing to NNSWF to request special exemption. (v) Should a Club be found guilty of the using a Goalkeeper from a higher grade to gain Sporting Advantage, which may include taking adequate steps in assembling their squads appropriately, they may be subject to NNSWF Premier Competition Regulation 7 and corresponding sanctions.

As for the Finals?
The rule does state ?played? in as a key word?Do the officials keep a record of which subs have gone on the pitch and played?

I think there is a risk in this one, in that that kid might not play in a style commensurate with the other team, does not know how to work within that team and may even prove a liability

Ref rules 6.10, (a), ii

(ii) For the avoidance of doubt, percentage is calculated based on the number of individual games the Player has played, and not the number of games the Team has participated in

[sapdad]

Do the officials keep a record of which subs have gone on the pitch and played?

No,not in youth football with unlimited subs.

[Taffy]

As for the Finals?
The rule does state ?played? in as a key word?Do the officials keep a record of which subs have gone on the pitch and played?

Only in reserves and first grade, if they are listed in youth they are deemed to have played

I think there is a risk in this one, in that that kid might not play in a style commensurate with the other team, does not know how to work within that team and may even prove a liability

If you've played the majority of your games in the age up then chances are you know how to work with them.

Dropping down of course may see this but then they aren't eligible.

[WOW2.0]

If you've played the majority of your games in the age up then chances are you know how to work with them.

Dropping down of course may see this but then they aren't eligible.

I meant specifically if a kid was dropping down an age (for perceived advantage) 😊

[Gman]

The competition rule that covers Goal Keepers playing down an age group

8.3. Player Eligibility Exemptions

(a) Players are not permitted to play down into an age group or grade lower than they are age eligible for with the exception of:
(i) In the event of an injury or unavailability to a Goalkeeper and the subsequent goalkeeper from the age group or grade below is unable to participate, Clubs must complete and submit the following form Eligibility Form allowing for permission to play the Goalkeeper from the corresponding next age group or grade above. Premier Youth League Boy?s | Competition Rules 2024 | P a g e | 9
(ii) The Eligibility Form must be completed and submitted by a Club Executive or the Club Technical Director by or before 9am the next Business Day following the completion of the Match.
(iii) Clubs are responsible for collecting and storing applicable evidence to support the usage of a Goalkeeper from the higher age group which may be requested by NNSWF.
(iv) In the event a Player or Goalkeeper does not meet the above criteria, Clubs may apply in writing to NNSWF to request special exemption. (v) Should a Club be found guilty of the using a Goalkeeper from a higher grade to gain Sporting Advantage, which may include taking adequate steps in assembling their squads appropriately, they may be subject to NNSWF Premier Competition Regulation 7 and corresponding sanctions.

As for the Finals?
The rule does state ?played? in as a key word?Do the officials keep a record of which subs have gone on the pitch and played?

I think there is a risk in this one, in that that kid might not play in a style commensurate with the other team, does not know how to work within that team and may even prove a liability

Ref rules 6.10, (a), ii

(ii) For the avoidance of doubt, percentage is calculated based on the number of individual games the Player has played, and not the number of games the Team has participated in

Thanks for sharing, so the club is deliberately lying to NNSWF to get the older keeper to play down. Pretty disappointing when clubs would stoop that low and also not great for the younger keepers development.

[outsider]

Fully agree sapdad.The failure of coaches and players to control themselves and play within the rules is the reason for referees actions (YC/RC)I watch a lot of junior football and the majority of the referees are more than capable-maybe have a look of the standard of football they officiate on-saw 3 of the worst games (15/16/18)last weekend very poor standard games

[Izzy]

Fully agree sapdad.The failure of coaches and players to control themselves and play within the rules is the reason for referees actions (YC/RC)I watch a lot of junior football and the majority of the referees are more than capable-maybe have a look of the standard of football they officiate on-saw 3 of the worst games (15/16/18)last weekend very poor standard games

Just remember we are dealing with some very deluded parents/players/coaches here who think that their bundle of joy is on their way to EPL stardom when they are so far from that sort of level it is ridiculous. Last week I saw several offsides and fouls that the parents, coaches and players complained about forcefully to the referee, and in every case they were 100% wrong (I checked VEO).

[WOW2.0]

Sometimes referees do make poor decisions, some interpret the rules differently to one another, they may/may not see something on a pitch, and sometimes there are rules they don't realise or have forgotten in the moment, etc

We all make mistakes...but we're also not playing for sheep stations

I would like to think there was a review and feedback process to supplement the learning of especially the young referees. (There probably isn't though)...but feedback is the only way to really get better and improve standards

[WOW2.0]

Thanks for sharing, so the club is deliberately lying to NNSWF to get the older keeper to play down. Pretty disappointing when clubs would stoop that low and also not great for the younger keepers development.

I don't know which club you are referencing (and probably better not to call them out)...I haven't noticed or heard of anyone in my boys age group do this habitually

However, they may not be cheating, their younger keeper may trully not be unavailable (if I was thinking of 13s the SAP/JDL keeper might be at a different location playing around the same time); any other grades they might be unfit or have other commitments to attend to

And of course, they may be abusing the allowance...it would be up to Northern to monitor and check the evidence supplied by the club as per point (iii) in the rule I copy pasted

[outsider]

Sometimes referees do make poor decisions, some interpret the rules differently to one another, they may/may not see something on a pitch, and sometimes there are rules they don't realise or have forgotten in the moment, etc

We all make mistakes...but we're also not playing for sheep stations

I would like to think there was a review and feedback process to supplement the learning of especially the young referees. (There probably isn't though)...but feedback is the only way to really get better and improve standards

There are coaching nights at least monthly for referees and assessors/mentors are at grounds when available-but there are not enough of them to go around.After match debriefs take place and coaching reports are supplied to the referees.Can only do so much with the people available.Not sure what else can be done given the fact that most of the young referees rely on parent transport,many of them play and have other activities in their life (even school)Everyone has to start somewhere and the young referees are no different.Game would be poorer without them.

[Gman]

I don't know which club you are referencing (and probably better not to call them out)...I haven't noticed or heard of anyone in my boys age group do this habitually

However, they may not be cheating, their younger keeper may trully not be unavailable (if I was thinking of 13s the SAP/JDL keeper might be at a different location playing around the same time); any other grades they might be unfit or have other commitments to attend to

And of course, they may be abusing the allowance...it would be up to Northern to monitor and check the evidence supplied by the club as per point (iii) in the rule I copy pasted

I know the kids parents so they were frustrated that their kid was being overlooked for the opportunity and the kid was available each and everytime. It was 14?s keeper being unavailable and the 13?s keeper finishing their game and watching the 14?s play - so 100% available. I appreciate its up to Northern to monitor, but clear as day what they were doing unfortunately and I assume Northern take the request in face value. Their son will move on next season so it?s the clubs loss in the end for not developing the player.

[Taffy]

I know the kids parents so they were frustrated that their kid was being overlooked for the opportunity and the kid was available each and everytime. It was 14?s keeper being unavailable and the 13?s keeper finishing their game and watching the 14?s play - so 100% available. I appreciate its up to Northern to monitor, but clear as day what they were doing unfortunately and I assume Northern take the request in face value. Their son will move on next season so it?s the clubs loss in the end for not developing the player.

Northern don't monitor and just accept what a club tells them. Clearly this club are breaking the rules and Northern despite talking about integrity within their competitions don't really care.

Though if the club has no faith in this keeper and aren't willing to let him play, it sounds like this keeper should be looking around elsewhere to be given these opportunities.

[sapdad]

There are coaching nights at least monthly for referees and assessors/mentors are at grounds when available-but there are not enough of them to go around.After match debriefs take place and coaching reports are supplied to the referees.Can only do so much with the people available.Not sure what else can be done given the fact that most of the young referees rely on parent transport,many of them play and have other activities in their life (even school)Everyone has to start somewhere and the young referees are no different.Game would be poorer without them.

Just to add to this,theres usually about 16-20 matchdays attended by assessors over a weekend.They dont do all grades but every written report my boys have ever gotten have been pretty in depth and helpful (for both centre refs and assistants).They give feedback on positioning,decisions and general management of the games.There was a program to get as many mentors (ex-players/coaches/interested parents) to give up their time and attend matchdays (most involving 1st year refs at JDL) to help kids with some of the finer points.If refs want to do finals series games they had to do an extra coaching session out at the facility as well as a fintess test.The refs did this on their own time.If they didnt pass both they werent going to be considered for selection.So to add to outsiders point,yes,in fact there is a lot of work being put in to improving the standard of refereeing every week.

[sapdad]

We all make mistakes...

This is the bit that gets me the most.If a coach makes a bad sub,or sets his team up wrong do parents and players ever feel empowered to lean over the fence and call them a cheat and carry on like idiots?If anyones kid has an airswing,misses a tackle,fumbles a sitter or misses a tap in do adults scream and swear about how awful they are and accuse them of being a cheat for the other team?Because this is exactly how these same adults feel about abusing match officials.Again,and without any confusion,match officlals know more about the rules,and how to apply them that the overwhelming majority of people on the other side of the fence and anyone abusing match officials look pathetic and deserve to be removed from the sport.