2013 NBN State League Thread

[pv4]

my theory on why the league has gone down in quality over the last 5 or so years is simple - they got rid of reserve grade, and made it under23s.

back when i was playing 19s, and there was no age-capping on reserve grade, we had a few older heads who wanted to be at the club because they loved it & they nurtured us young 19s and we learnt from the former best & became better players because of it. nowadays, the oldies feel pushed out of the competition. plus a lot of clubs can't find room for them, as they want their returning-from-injury-first-graders free spots to play reserves to get back into it (but when those first graders are out injured, there's no experience to replace them, it's all younger guys). and so the step up from 19s to reserves nowadays - there's no old heads to take you under their wings. it's all the guys you've been playing with for the last few years. and i've noticed the physicality of reserve grade has gone, and it promotes weaker, fragile first graders.

i predict if they went back to reserve grade with no age-capping, 5 years from now the whole competition would be a hell of a lot better off.

imo

[chocolate soldier]

my theory on why the league has gone down in quality over the last 5 or so years is simple - they got rid of reserve grade, and made it under23s.

back when i was playing 19s, and there was no age-capping on reserve grade, we had a few older heads who wanted to be at the club because they loved it & they nurtured us young 19s and we learnt from the former best & became better players because of it. nowadays, the oldies feel pushed out of the competition. plus a lot of clubs can't find room for them, as they want their returning-from-injury-first-graders free spots to play reserves to get back into it (but when those first graders are out injured, there's no experience to replace them, it's all younger guys). and so the step up from 19s to reserves nowadays - there's no old heads to take you under their wings. it's all the guys you've been playing with for the last few years. and i've noticed the physicality of reserve grade has gone, and it promotes weaker, fragile first graders.

i predict if they went back to reserve grade with no age-capping, 5 years from now the whole competition would be a hell of a lot better off.

imo

couldnt agree more!!

[Imyourhero]

my theory on why the league has gone down in quality over the last 5 or so years is simple - they got rid of reserve grade, and made it under23s.

back when i was playing 19s, and there was no age-capping on reserve grade, we had a few older heads who wanted to be at the club because they loved it & they nurtured us young 19s and we learnt from the former best & became better players because of it. nowadays, the oldies feel pushed out of the competition. plus a lot of clubs can't find room for them, as they want their returning-from-injury-first-graders free spots to play reserves to get back into it (but when those first graders are out injured, there's no experience to replace them, it's all younger guys). and so the step up from 19s to reserves nowadays - there's no old heads to take you under their wings. it's all the guys you've been playing with for the last few years. and i've noticed the physicality of reserve grade has gone, and it promotes weaker, fragile first graders.

i predict if they went back to reserve grade with no age-capping, 5 years from now the whole competition would be a hell of a lot better off.

imo

This is an interesting debate.
There will be alot of people who think the opposite as ive heard talk over last few years of them even reducing the age! I'm not sure which side of the fence i sit on personally as you could have alot of older heads have a positive impact at one club but a negative impact at another as i have personally seen cases of older heads who are just over the age limit however are never going to be playing 1st grade but are still kept around and block younger players with potential from being stepped up.

[Zico]

my theory on why the league has gone down in quality over the last 5 or so years is simple - they got rid of reserve grade, and made it under23s.

back when i was playing 19s, and there was no age-capping on reserve grade, we had a few older heads who wanted to be at the club because they loved it & they nurtured us young 19s and we learnt from the former best & became better players because of it. nowadays, the oldies feel pushed out of the competition. plus a lot of clubs can't find room for them, as they want their returning-from-injury-first-graders free spots to play reserves to get back into it (but when those first graders are out injured, there's no experience to replace them, it's all younger guys). and so the step up from 19s to reserves nowadays - there's no old heads to take you under their wings. it's all the guys you've been playing with for the last few years. and i've noticed the physicality of reserve grade has gone, and it promotes weaker, fragile first graders.

i predict if they went back to reserve grade with no age-capping, 5 years from now the whole competition would be a hell of a lot better off.

imo

I also agree with what you are posting. Another option is to increase the over age players allowed to play which would would get it back to exactly what it was in the days gone by. What I find difficult to understand is how the Fed continue to recycle ideas from the past. They failed in the past and the wrong was righted yet leave it 5 to 10 years and they re issue they same directive that failed before.

[Imyourhero]

What about U25s, 2 overage spots??

[Bremsstrahlung]

Have heard nnsw will be moving towards an under16/ 18s/ 20s / first grade competition.

[pv4]

to put it nicely - when i was mid-teens and playing under19s i used to be scared when i got called up to reserve grade. i was scared of the big guys i was playing against (even though i was bigger than them), i was scared one of the oldies would break my legs, i was intimidated by the swearing, i was intimidated by the competitiveness, i was scared to let down the old guys that had been around for 10+ years, etc. and all that fear made me step up, and compete. it was a surefire way to seperate the men from the boys.

i only got a little time in under23s, but it was noticeably a worse comp. it was softer, it wasn't as competitive, there was no old heads screaming you down, there was no fear of getting your legs broken and hence you needing to step up. i remember taking it upon myself to "teach those young nswis guys a lesson" one game, and on-purpose roughed them up a bit. one literally cried after i hit him once - he's now playing for the jets youth, and every time i watch him he stands out as being soft, and i can't see him making it further tbh, potential regardless. i can't help but think if he was brought through the old reserve grade system, he would have developed more physically and would be more up to first grade nowadays.

and the oldies that do play 23s? they're kind of outsiders in this new comp. i remember playing against a guy who wouldn't get a look in first grade, but was over 30, and remember everyone thinking "who's that old bloke, what an outsider". back in my day (lol, feels good to say it) the younger guys actually respected the oldies, and the young guys were the outsiders and had to prove they deserved to be there, and became better players because of it. the mentality has changed completely.

while more overage spots would help, i can't help but think solely the tagline of "under 23s" drives the oldies away. realistically i can't remember many clubs using more than 4-5 oldies in their reserve grade back in the day anyway, but i know of heaps of old reserve graders who, the moment it went to 23s, felt unwanted and retired without much persuasion otherwise.

btw i don't think i blame northern for all of this. pretty sure it's a ffa-mandated thing to have younger & younger comps, right?

[LINGERA]

Have heard nnsw will be moving towards an under16/ 18s/ 20s / first grade competition.

haha! imagine the gap in quality and xperience between 1sts and U20s!!

[Premy]

Zone Leagues are far stronger because of this but

[MFKS]

Have heard nnsw will be moving towards an under16/ 18s/ 20s / first grade competition.

Thats an FFA directive that NNSW are reluctant to push through.

AT the end of the day PV4 the issue relies solely with the clubs to fix. I don't understand this need for keeping mediocre players in the system to clog up spots just to tough the kids up coming through. The kids coming through the 17's 19's have to be plain well better than they are at present. The Clubs have 3/4 years to get a player in the U17's ready ie.16years old for the U23's. If they ain't ready in 3/4 years by the time they are 20 for the step up to U23's then when are they gonna be ready and are they First grade material??

In a perfect world you wouldn't be having anyone making their debut at First grade Level after the age of 21. Really they should be able to cut it at that age or they really ain't ever gonna make it.

Having U23's allows the blokes who are late blooming to play 23's at 20>>23. How much time/opportunity do you want to give on blokes to step up and make the grade??

As far as I am concerned they have then had 6-8 years to make First Grade and cement a spot whilst in the system. That is plenty and time has past them by

[Zico]

If this new points system thats being floated about gets over the line than first grade will be an U/25's comp.
MFKS, I think you are missing PV4's point. The U/23's are lacking the mentors that once existed in the old Reserve grade, I'll also add that the clubs are not only loosing the mentors but also the good clubmen.

[ace22]

To much age restictions as it is. Dont see the other codes with them. If a 30 year old is good enough to play reserve grade nbn he should be playing reserve grade nbn. not only that like said above he could be a good role model etc. If a 20 year old kid cant take hes spot with hes abilities he was never going to make it 'pro' anyway.

[MFKS]

If this new points system thats being floated about gets over the line than first grade will be an U/25's comp.
MFKS, I think you are missing PV4's point. The U/23's are lacking the mentors that once existed in the old Reserve grade, I'll also add that the clubs are not only loosing the mentors but also the good clubmen.

I see his point. I just don't believe in the keeping of mediocre players just for the sake of it. Fix the development of players so that they are ready for higher grades at earlier ages than they are at present. If the quality is coming through the 17's and 19's quicker and at better quality then the issues raised by PV4 with the quality of the U23's comp are redundant.

This isn't just a problem at NBN Level but is also prevalent in the HAL. Blokes like Goodwin have finally just played their first season as a Professional at the age of 21. Anywhere else in the world he would be 17-18-19 years old and playing professionally.

Even the Great White Hope for Newy Football is turning 20 this year and is still on the periphery of the HAL squad. This needs to be rectified so blokes are playing HAL at 17-18-19 and not coming in at 20-21-22 as is currently the case with the likes of Taggz Birraz and Goody


Bringing back the reserve grade in NBN to me is a retrograde step as the problem is fixable and it lies with the clubs to fix their development practices to sort this issue out.

Just like the Jets are trying to sort this issue out with the HAL with the Emerging Jets teams. In time I see the First grade Jets team to be average age of 17>18 rather than the 19>>20 as is currently the case

[The Baby Piglet]

I see his point. I just don't believe in the keeping of mediocre players just for the sake of it. Fix the development of players so that they are ready for higher grades at earlier ages than they are at present. If the quality is coming through the 17's and 19's quicker and at better quality then the issues raised by PV4 with the quality of the U23's comp are redundant.

This isn't just a problem at NBN Level but is also prevalent in the HAL. Blokes like Goodwin have finally just played their first season as a Professional at the age of 21. Anywhere else in the world he would be 17-18-19 years old and playing professionally.

Even the Great White Hope for Newy Football is turning 20 this year and is still on the periphery of the HAL squad. This needs to be rectified so blokes are playing HAL at 17-18-19 and not coming in at 20-21-22 as is currently the case with the likes of Taggz Birraz and Goody


Bringing back the reserve grade in NBN to me is a retrograde step as the problem is fixable and it lies with the clubs to fix their development practices to sort this issue out.

Just like the Jets are trying to sort this issue out with the HAL with the Emerging Jets teams. In time I see the First grade Jets team to be average age of 17>18 rather than the 19>>20 as is currently the case

If yu think that the avg age of the FIRST team is going to be 17-18.... you are dead set having one MFKS

[MFKS]

If yu think that the avg age of the FIRST team is going to be 17-18.... you are dead set having one MFKS

I am talking about the Jets Yoof first grade team in the NBN League. In a few years time I would expect them to be much younger than they are at present. i expect them to be 17-18 years old rather than 19-20 years old in a few years time

[ForeverRed]

I may be wrong, but I don't of one NBN club that plays over age players in 23s, there may be one or 2 players floating about but not many, last year south Cardiff were minor prems in 23s and had five 17 year old play in the gf, oldest player was 20 except for the goal keeper, I'm pretty sure this is fairly common at most clubs, also NBN clubs are against the change of age groups next season as the FFA directive mostly suits major cities but I'm pretty sure it will happen

[pv4]

The U/23's are lacking the mentors that once existed in the old Reserve grade, I'll also add that the clubs are not only loosing the mentors but also the good clubmen.

1000x this

[ForeverRed]

1000x this

sorry but I don't believe this, mentors are your first graders at training etc, playing older players only takes a position of a young player who will hopefully become a first grader, clubs these days want players who will make it to first grade not older guys who are pass their time, just my opinion

[The Baby Piglet]

sorry but I don't believe this, mentors are your first graders at training etc, playing older players only takes a position of a young player who will hopefully become a first grader, clubs these days want players who will make it to first grade not older guys who are pass their time, just my opinion

^^^^ Thats the exact mentality that has lead to the competition being in the state it is. Once your abit older and slower, and cant quite keep up your discarded and not wanted. Its these guys that help past on knowledge.

[GazFish35]

^^^^ Thats the exact mentality that has lead to the competition being in the state it is. Once your abit older and slower, and cant quite keep up your discarded and not wanted.

at least GVE could argue he is making an impact on the local scene then