2022 NPL Youth thread

[sapdad]

3 players with broken arms? that's horrendous luck.

Ive definitely seen a team with at least 2 kids in slings on the bench so probably the same club.I think they had 5 12's playing up and then 5 13's in 14's recently.Hats off to them for not forfeiting but its stretching the talent thin when they are already struggling quite a bit.

[outsider]

Ive definitely seen a team with at least 2 kids in slings on the bench so probably the same club.I think they had 5 12's playing up and then 5 13's in 14's recently.Hats off to them for not forfeiting but its stretching the talent thin when they are already struggling quite a bit.

Injured players are not allowed to sit on the bench

[sapdad]

Injured players are not allowed to sit on the bench

I'll be sure to pass this on to the rules committee next time I see it happen.

[Goatscheese]

Injured players are not allowed to sit on the bench

Plenty do seen Edgy, Magic, Olympic, Lakes, Adamstown all do it over the years, including at U18s

[Take it easy]

Injured players are not allowed to sit on the bench

Only a tosser would make an issue out of that.

All clubs do it and it should be encouraged

[Jardelsimage]

Injured players are not allowed to sit on the bench

if there on the team sheet yes they are.....

[outsider]

if there on the team sheet yes they are.....

can only have 5 subs and team officials with tags on bench so if the team has their full subs allowed then injured players can not be there

[Bernabeu]

Injured players are not allowed to sit on the bench

They are also permitted to sit on the bench if they are listed as team officials, such as trainer, physio ect. provided that they wear team official tags

[The Hacker]

Injured players are not allowed to sit on the bench

If we are pick on that god help me

[Bremsstrahlung]

why would you put a kid with a broken arm on the team sheet?

To get them a seat on the bench when outsider is out and about.

[Captain_Carl]

There is player poaching happening already for 2023. Goodness gracious me! Just let them play 2022 first.

[Lichael Richards]

There is player poaching happening already for 2023. Goodness gracious me! Just let them play 2022 first.


Wonder if current club knows. Ultimately, it's the choice of the players and parents.

[Goatscheese]

Wonder if current club knows. Ultimately, it's the choice of the players and parents.

and clubs

[Goatscheese]

If we are pick on that god help me

No one really does care or pick up on it. Northern certainly wouldn't care, I know at least one instance where a suspended player sat on the bench (not in playing gear just club gear), when video footage was raised with Northern they dismissed it despite their rules regarding suspended players

[sapdad]

and clubs

Excellent point.Clubs deciding 1/3 of the way through the season that they need to improve is fine,but it means some kids are already without a club for next year.If those kids want to get out in front of that and secure a spot somewhere I have no issue with it.Friendships are really strong between kids at rival clubs it doesnt take much for a word to be put in and situations to change.Loyalty is a two way street.

[Lichael Richards]

Particularly in 12s. There are clubs that already know who will be let go and approaching those who they want.

[Goatscheese]

In saying that the club should be fined for it, they are teaching these young people not only the rules of the game but also behaviours and should realise that they are role models and setting a standard. It's a shame that's something that parents (and northern) don't expect more in regards to how much is spent on football in the area.

Well clubs do it because they know Northern don't follow their own rules.

[finzee]

All of it will require tough but sensible conversations from Northern.

Ok so we're done.

[Daz]

Whats happening at the Jets youth the training is cancelled as staff have quit I saw something on the news about it but didn’t think it was as bad as it is.

[Lichael Richards]

Whats happening at the Jets youth the training is cancelled as staff have quit I saw something on the news about it but didn’t think it was as bad as it is.

Ask Jets CEO Shane Mattiske. This ckhead thinks he knows all.

[The Berlin Wall]

Whats happening at the Jets youth the training is cancelled as staff have quit I saw something on the news about it but didn’t think it was as bad as it is.

Reshuffle been on the cards for months. McBreen told no contract next year so walked. Deans told the same.

Kew ain’t impressed the big guns but still there for now. Seen as a guy with a chip on his shoulders. And yeah I said shoulders with a s.

Just the same old same old story with the jets. Were you expecting something different?

[terry]

Edgy Maitland and Jaffas Lake Mac Youth washed out this weekend already

[Captain_Carl]

Still early days but I am calling out 2 premierships already. U14s Broadmeadow Magic and U15s Newcastle Olympic. 16s looks like numerous teams are in the mix and 13s will be interesting too.

[sapdad]

Still early days but I am calling out 2 premierships already. U14s Broadmeadow Magic and U15s Newcastle Olympic. 16s looks like numerous teams are in the mix and 13s will be interesting too.

I agree with you on Magic they play good football.13's have had way too many washouts to know who is doing well.Of the teams I have seen Magic/Olympic and Charlestown play some good football.But with some clubs only playing 2 games and others ripped with covid it might take a while to settle down.I have been very impressed with the skill level so far and think the JDL program has had an impact even in year 1.

[Captain_Carl]

Maitland will be very strong but 15 of those goals were against a Covid-depleted Cooks Hill team. We will get a better guide after they have played Olympic, Jaffas, Magic etc.

[onlooker]

catchup games this week

Edgeworth v lakes
15's 4-1
16's 4-0

Maitland v Charlestown (I think Maitland won 13's 14's but I don't have the scores at hand)
15s 2-0
16s 4-1

13’s 3-0 14’s 5-2 both wins to Maitland

[The Magician]

Magic vs Olympic Catch-ups this week
16's 3-1
15's 1-0

Olympic red cards in both games

[Eastwest]

Magic vs Olympic Catch-ups this week
16's 3-1
15's 1-0

Olympic red cards in both games

Thered be a good reason to earn a red there.

[BS detecor]

Thered be a good reason to earn a red there.

Yeah they have never taken losing well

[Hurricane]

How much have Maitland youth improved over the last 2 seasons. From perennial bottom 2 or 3 in every grade to now being a top 4 chance in every grade.

[The Berlin Wall]

Anyone know how the Charlestown v Edgeworth games went today?

I do.

3-zip Edgy. Could have been x2 that

[Goatscheese]

I do.

3-zip Edgy. Could have been x2 that

Why wasn't it?

[The Berlin Wall]

Why wasn't it?

If you don’t know how soccer works I’m not sure this forum is for you buddy.

Maybe head back over to your QAnon forums and see where we are with COVID?

[sapdad]

Damn you'd think the coach would know why his own team was unable to score.

Many reasons a coach can give and since I wasn't there you could've bullshitted and said that Charlestown changed their formation and players around to prevent any more goals.

If you can't see why your player's couldn't score more best you step back and let someone who knows how to analyse a match take your job.

Hang on a minute are you inferring The Berlin Wall is the Edgeworth u/13's coach?Because im positive its not and the moderators dont take too kindly to outing people on here.Sorry but just wanted to clear things up before anything gets out of hand.

[The Berlin Wall]

Damn you'd think the coach would know why his own team was unable to score.

Many reasons a coach can give and since I wasn't there you could've bullshitted and said that Charlestown changed their formation and players around to prevent any more goals.

If you can't see why your player's couldn't score more best you step back and let someone who knows how to analyse a match take your job.

Jeez Cheese. I told you before I ain’t the coach but i did watch the game. Edgy were real good and Azzurri not so much. Is that enough detail for you to scuttle back to your notepad with?

What do you for work dude? You comment on every damn post so I’m thinking that club coaching money plus Northern coaching money is so good you don’t need to work. Maybe I should start coaching?

[Oldy]

He knows an awful lot about the teams he coaches and programs he is in. I certainly wasn't the one to out him

Parent or clubman.

tbh the edgy 13s are going better than thought after a couple of better players jumped ship last year. Although they havent played the top teams yet.

I thought Charlie had better youth. Maybe an off weekend.

[terry]

Hang on a minute are you inferring The Berlin Wall is the Edgeworth u/13's coach?Because im positive its not and the moderators dont take too kindly to outing people on here.Sorry but just wanted to clear things up before anything gets out of hand.

Mods only ban MFKS and anyone not Woke. Well we are in commie town so makes sense.

[terry]

Yeah they have never taken losing well

I beg to differ.

Tragic are the biggest grubs when it comes to losing. Cant even win nicely.

[BS detecor]

I beg to differ.

Tragic are the biggest grubs when it comes to losing. Cant even win nicely.

You can beg all you want but the red cards tell a different story

[BS detecor]

Both likely as bad as one another in the boys comp. and worse again when they play each other.....

From experience many teams can be as bad when they are winning as much as when they are losing, it's all about what the club and coach allows.

The derby is the biggest and best game of the year in any league and there’s no bigger derby in newcastle than magic v olympic. Long may it continue

[sapdad]

The derby is the biggest and best game of the year in any league and there’s no bigger derby in newcastle than magic v olympic. Long may it continue

Is there even any agro in the youth these days anyway?I mean it in a good way,the games we watched between these 2 clubs have always been quality but never anything too out of control.The parents get into it more though.I would also nominate Magic/Edgeworth as a rivalry that seems to be across all grades.Not sure if its a new thing but being familiar with both clubs its a game they look forward too each year.

[The Magician]

Is there even any agro in the youth these days anyway?I mean it in a good way,the games we watched between these 2 clubs have always been quality but never anything too out of control.The parents get into it more though.I would also nominate Magic/Edgeworth as a rivalry that seems to be across all grades.Not sure if its a new thing but being familiar with both clubs its a game they look forward too each year.

Magic 13s defeat Olympic 5-1 in tonight's catch up fixture... Another red card in second half for Olympic makes it 3/3 for them in the derby round... Can they go 4/4 tomorrow night in the 14s fixture.

[terry]

Magic 13s defeat Olympic 5-1 in tonight's catch up fixture... Another red card in second half for Olympic makes it 3/3 for them in the derby round... Can they go 4/4 tomorrow night in the 14s fixture.

For kicking the ball away. wow havent seen a yellow for that for ages. Was actually a decent game. No goals scored after the send off

[The Magician]

For kicking the ball away. wow havent seen a yellow for that for ages. Was actually a decent game. No goals scored after the send off
Wow, you don't watch much First Grade then, happens in about 2 out of every 3 games.

[BS detecor]

nothing wrong with a derby for adults with fully formed brains who can understand how decisions can have long term ramifications.

teenagers don't which is why they have responsible adults in charge for their welfare - and supposedly guiding them to become potential first grade players. If you let them engrain bad habits into their behaviour what they think they can get away with now will only cause them hassles when they are adults, both for their football and life in general.

I have great respect for a coach that can ingrain discipline both in training and on the field to play the game and not get drawn into rubbish like trying to start fights and carrying on like turkeys, instead of getting on with the job at hand which is playing as team whether you are winning or losing. I think that discipline is a lot harder to coach and anyone that can round up a bunch of teenagers and get them working like that is someone everyone should follow.

Cool story bro

[Retired01]

Magic 13s defeat Olympic 5-1 in tonight's catch up fixture... Another red card in second half for Olympic makes it 3/3 for them in the derby round... Can they go 4/4 tomorrow night in the 14s fixture.

I saw the first half of that game as well with my kids in the rage cage. What has happened at Olympic 13s as they were disorganised and the positioning was non existant its like they were in school team and teacher generally does Maths. Do they have the same coaches as that disorganised play is not their usual standard from last seasons.

[sapdad]

I saw the first half of that game as well with my kids in the rage cage. What has happened at Olympic 13s as they were disorganised and the positioning was non existant its like they were in school team and teacher generally does Maths. Do they have the same coaches as that disorganised play is not their usual standard from last seasons.

Ive seen them several times this year and they've been very good.Maybe just an off night?Magic 13s would have had a lot to do with that too,they are a very good team.

[Aegon]

Ive seen them several times this year and they've been very good.Maybe just an off night?Magic 13s would have had a lot to do with that too,they are a very good team.

From what I was told by one of the parents was that Olympic play several very fast wingers and strikers and in recent weeks have found it very easy against opponents to knock it through or pass long and get loads of goals.
Last night they faced a Magic team with 2 very good centre backs (both rejected Jets spots) and a right back who would have been MOM so it didn't work for the most part and the team failed to adapt.

Olympic will probably score the most goals this year but are going to find it tough against well drilled defences like Magic or Jaffas.

Top 4 this year in 13's for mine:
Magic - Jaffas - Olympic - MNC

[terry]

Wow, you don't watch much First Grade then, happens in about 2 out of every 3 games.

Kool story bro but we are talking youth in the youth thread. Being a manic tragic supp I wouldnt expect too much common sense.

[terry]

I have great respect for a coach that can ingrain discipline both in training and on the field to play the game and not get drawn into rubbish like trying to start fights and carrying on like turkeys, instead of getting on with the job at hand which is playing as team whether you are winning or losing. I think that discipline is a lot harder to coach and anyone that can round up a bunch of teenagers and get them working like that is someone everyone should follow.

well said.

I think the Youth are doing pretty good job at doing this remembering they still are physically competing and they are teens. :shock::shock:

[Retired01]

From what I was told by one of the parents was that Olympic play several very fast wingers and strikers and in recent weeks have found it very easy against opponents to knock it through or pass long and get loads of goals.
Last night they faced a Magic team with 2 very good centre backs (both rejected Jets spots) and a right back who would have been MOM so it didn't work for the most part and the team failed to adapt.

Olympic will probably score the most goals this year but are going to find it tough against well drilled defences like Magic or Jaffas.

Top 4 this year in 13's for mine:
Magic - Jaffas - Olympic - MNC

They paly with a fast striker and wingers and kick it long? They will never compete with the top teams if thats the coaching they are getting which makes a bit of sense as I saw the old Topor Stanley kick off last night from the Jets bad old days and if the ball is not in our half they cant score. Who is the TD and coach there now?

[sapdad]

They paly with a fast striker and wingers and kick it long? They will never compete with the top teams if thats the coaching they are getting which makes a bit of sense as I saw the old Topor Stanley kick off last night from the Jets bad old days and if the ball is not in our half they cant score. Who is the TD and coach there now?

No,they attacked the spaces in behind teams that played high with effective through balls,not long ball.They moved the ball well and controlled possession when I watched them.They are coached well.

[The Magician]

No,they attacked the spaces in behind teams that played high with effective through balls,not long ball.They moved the ball well and controlled possession when I watched them.They are coached well.

Olympic simply out coached

[sapdad]

Olympic simply out coached

Doesnt surprise me.Both those blokes JDL teams were always 2 of the better teams to watch.The fact they are now working together is a fantastic opportunity for the kids who are playing for them.

[BS detecor]

too complex for you?

Yeah I’m not woke enough

[terry]

When is the Youth going to change format?

The top 4 or 5 teams arent being challenged for more than half of their games. Winning by more than 6 every week is a joke.

[terry]

They paly with a fast striker and wingers and kick it long? They will never compete with the top teams if thats the coaching they are getting which makes a bit of sense as I saw the old Topor Stanley kick off last night from the Jets bad old days and if the ball is not in our half they cant score. Who is the TD and coach there now?

It's not a bad plan A but there needs to be B, C, D as well.

[The Berlin Wall]

Parent or clubman.

tbh the edgy 13s are going better than thought after a couple of better players jumped ship last year. Although they havent played the top teams yet.

I thought Charlie had better youth. Maybe an off weekend.

Can I be a parent who is a clubman? Or must
I be one or other?

Edgy are doing great in all grades. From where we were to where we are trust me things are getting better. Check every grade, kids playing up an age, kids getting better. Ain’t about results. About the future.

Is there a emoji for me ripping off my shirt and bashing me chest?

[The Magician]

Magic 14s 4... Olympic 0... been a while since someone dusted Olympic in all Youth grades...

Over the 4 games Olympic got more red cards than goals scored, wonder what Sportsbet was paying for that.

[Retired01]

It's not a bad plan A but there needs to be B, C, D as well.

Bumped into friend of mine at Speers Point last night who has a boy in JDL at Olympic and talk is the 13s coaches ruined the 13s last year and the club wont change it as they have ties to the club. They are now ruining this years 13s and club ignoring it and he reckons Olympic wont run top 4 in 13s this year either. The chat made sense to me after seeing a bit the other night and I wont go into full detail as he is too close to the source but siad they are losing kids from some grades already due to coaching.

[BS detecor]

Magic 14s 4... Olympic 0... been a while since someone dusted Olympic in all Youth grades...

Over the 4 games Olympic got more red cards than goals scored, wonder what Sportsbet was paying for that.

I was at speers point and it wasn’t the result that was the most shocking. Olympic had no style of play whatsoever except hoof it and try to win the scraps. Magic were dropping back to half way to encourage them to play football but they still refused to even entertain the idea. These are talented kids so it’s not like they don’t have the ability

[TRUMP TOWER]

Olympic probably struggling now they don’t have the NET lifeline that used to send the better kids there. And it’s getting expensive to play JDL and NPL so the commission house kids take up footy and cheaper sports. Not being smart but let’s be honest Football is a rich man’s sport these days. The better your kid is the more expensive it is to play and the worse the coaching gets from what I’m seeing.

[terry]

Olympic probably struggling now they don’t have the NET lifeline that used to send the better kids there. And it’s getting expensive to play JDL and NPL so the commission house kids take up footy and cheaper sports. Not being smart but let’s be honest Football is a rich man’s sport these days. The better your kid is the more expensive it is to play and the worse the coaching gets from what I’m seeing.

Geez, Trumpy in with the truth bombs. I dont think Olympic are in too much bother but improvements do need to be made.

As for coaches, it seems that the more coaching tickets we hand out the more confusing the curriculum becomes to coach.

Housos have always played footy so no change there.

[TRUMP TOWER]

Geez, Trumpy in with the truth bombs. I dont think Olympic are in too much bother but improvements do need to be made.

As for coaches, it seems that the more coaching tickets we hand out the more confusing the curriculum becomes to coach.

Housos have always played footy so no change there.

Trump is here to drop the truth bombs 💣

[TRUMP TOWER]

I enjoy the fact you think you are telling us things we haven't heard a million times before. again. Clubs do often help kids that need it in many ways, but I'd imagine the club doesn't go around publishing it as it also then singles those same kids out as being different, and its also something parents would likely keep to themselves as well.

You think people are going to go around telling people they are getting a free ride, because they can't afford to pay, or have specialised payment plans? Just because YOU don't know about it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

What are you on about ya gala, payment plan or not it’s expensive.

[travellingman]

Is that why their 16s left to play 18s at cooks hill? I'm not sure I buy into your optimism.:popcorn:

Everyone says its about playing up when results aren't going their way. But both Maitland and Magic (I believe Magic has a 14 year old in their 18's as well) have kids playing up across the board and haven't fallen off the table. I think magic seems to have improved this year from last as well from what I can see so far in a couple of age groups.

Personally I don't have a problem with kids playing up if they are good enough.
It should always be the best against the best.
As for a 14 yr old playing 18's, the kid must be an exceptional talent or the quality of the 15 & 16's yr olds at that club are poor.
If the kids talent warrants playing 4 yrs up, WHY isn't he in the Jets program?

[BS detecor]

Personally I don't have a problem with kids playing up if they are good enough.
It should always be the best against the best.
As for a 14 yr old playing 18's, the kid must be an exceptional talent or the quality of the 15 & 16's yr olds at that club are poor.
If the kids talent warrants playing 4 yrs up, WHY isn't he in the Jets program?

Turned it down because it’s a clusterf**k

[jim wallis]

Turned it down because it’s a clusterf**k

But his since wanted in but knocked back. Go figure

[BS detecor]

But his since wanted in but knocked back. Go figure

Because it’s a clusterf**k

[Texas Ranger]

Personally I don't have a problem with kids playing up if they are good enough.
It should always be the best against the best.
As for a 14 yr old playing 18's, the kid must be an exceptional talent or the quality of the 15 & 16's yr olds at that club are poor.
If the kids talent warrants playing 4 yrs up, WHY isn't he in the Jets program?
Only players turning 15 or above in the calendar year allowed to play up in 18s or above. It was 16 year olds until Jets academy caught out not complying so they changed it a few years ago. So kid can only be playing maximum of 3 years up.

[The Berlin Wall]

Likely turning 15 this year at some point.

Valo also skirted that rule and played a 13 year old goalkeeper in the 18s last year in a game that didn't matter probably because his father pushed for it so he could jump over all the other kids to play in the shambles jets team this year. I hate when rules are inconsistently applied though, because it shouldn't have been allowed, there wasn't any remarkable skill going on there and I know the older boys change the way they play when up against a kid they know they will seriously injure if they compete against at full pace. it's not an accurate reflection in skill. 15+ when they are a bit bigger I don't have an issue with. There was literally no way in that scenario he was "good enough" as he isn't playing 18's at the jets now is he, he's playing in his own age group.

Now Kitzy baby dropping bombs!! But I ain’t sure if they truth bombs or bitter bombs. We know your boy plays in goals. We now know a 13 year old got picked in front of him. Ouch.

The “shambles Jets team” he went to been doing alright on the ladder to my eyes. Maybe the goalie been doing good. Maybe just maybe hes worth his spot.

Maybe just maybe your boy ain’t got the call yet.

Real talk question. If your boy gets a offer for the Jets next year, is he going? I’m saying yeah.

[jim wallis]

Now Kitzy baby dropping bombs!! But I ain’t sure if they truth bombs or bitter bombs. We know your boy plays in goals. We now know a 13 year old got picked in front of him. Ouch.

The “shambles Jets team” he went to been doing alright on the ladder to my eyes. Maybe the goalie been doing good. Maybe just maybe hes worth his spot.

Maybe just maybe your boy ain’t got the call yet.

Real talk question. If your boy gets a offer for the Jets next year, is he going? I’m saying yeah.

Jets Youth are fine. NSWNPL2 is still much better than the local NPL as it should be. The trash talk you get on here is disparaging and does not reflect realty.

Yes the club does need a better coaching model and a playing system that runs vertically through the squads.

[sapdad]

The 13's keeper for the Jets was one of the easiest 4 or 5 spots to fill in that squad.All of the kids that are there deserve their chance.Over the course of the program kids will change and the ones that replace them will deserve their chance too.

[Take it easy]

The 13's keeper for the Jets was one of the easiest 4 or 5 spots to fill in that squad.All of the kids that are there deserve their chance.Over the course of the program kids will change and the ones that replace them will deserve their chance too.

💯 the keeper did really well last year and deserves his spot. Haven’t seen anyone really in the 13s locally that puts pressure on him. Azzuri have a decent keeper, will get plenty of practice this year and after watching Olympic this year I’m sure they wished he’d stayed there. Jaffas best keeper plays on the field. Magic and Maitland are lucky they have strong field teams. Massive contrast to the 14s who have some great young keepers Magic and Edgy especially, the jets keeper must be impressive to keep these kids out.

It’s an area that is easily forgotten about in the world of JDL.

The constant bagging of the jets program and the kids there is so laughable, let’s face it if most parents on here got an offer for their kid they’d seriously consider it and most would take it up.

[BS detecor]

[QUOTE=Take it easy;258167

The constant bagging of the jets program and the kids there is so laughable, let’s face it if most parents on here got an offer for their kid they’d seriously consider it and most would take it up.[/QUOTE]

The kids are not the issue
The program is frustrating and disappointing and needs a massive overhaul

[Aegon]

I watched the TSP boys push them, with a couple of kids that have left the program and likely should still be there. There are some very good footballers in the older TSP groups.

I think maybe you needed to go watch the TSP tournament.
Why is this a surprise? You are talking about the best footballers in their age group not playing for the jets, playing against the Jets. TSP should push the Jets and it should be a very close contest. I'd be more worried if the gap was so big that it wasn't close at all.


On the ladder where they aren't playing other Aleague teams
Why does this even matter? Right now they are playing FNSW Youth League 2 which is many more competitive games than they would receive in NPL in Newcastle.
U13 & U16 are top of their tables.
U15 & U18 are second.
U14's are in 6th.

They are currently 3 pts clear on the club championship table with 4 games in hand. Hills United and St George may give them a challenge but barring some capitulation or another COVID lock down the Jets Youth should be in Youth League 1 in 2023

[Aegon]

Why do you think those particular teams are better than up here. Some of the NNSW NPL teams play those teams in trials. Some of them aren’t competitive match ups. They aren’t the best in Sydney because they are playing in youth league one. Some of them are on par or below us. With maybe a a couple hard done by being pushed down when the restructure happened. A heap of the league has come from the bottom division in youth league that were pushed up when it changed.

Worried about bagging the jets, but kids have left to play back up here instead of playing those teams in Sydney. There’s a reason there. I’ve also seen some very good football up here, even though people here consistently bag our own league.

Nope:

https://footballnsw.com.au/2021/05/26/football-nsw-update-boys-youth-league-football-2022/

In 2022, Football NSW will place the three tiers of 16 Youth clubs on the following basis:

Tier One

the 12 clubs competing in the current NPL NSW Youth – 1.1 Competition; and
The top 4 clubs from the current NPL NSW Youth – 1.2 Competition based on Youth Club Championship standings at the end of the 2021 season.

Tier Two

Clubs that finish in 5th to 12th place in the current NPL NSW Youth – 1.2 Competition based on Youth Club Championship standings at the end of the 2021 season; and
Clubs that finish in 1st to 8th place in the NPL NSW Youth – 2.1 Competition based on Youth Club Championship standings at the end of the 2021 season.

Tier Three

Clubs that finish in 9th to 12th place in the NPL NSW Youth – 2.1 Competition based on Youth Club Championship standings at the end of the 2021 season; and
All 12 clubs in the current NPL NSW Youth – 2.2 Competition

[early_to_the_match]

Nope:

https://footballnsw.com.au/2021/05/26/football-nsw-update-boys-youth-league-football-2022/

In 2022, Football NSW will place the three tiers of 16 Youth clubs on the following basis:

Tier One

the 12 clubs competing in the current NPL NSW Youth – 1.1 Competition; and
The top 4 clubs from the current NPL NSW Youth – 1.2 Competition based on Youth Club Championship standings at the end of the 2021 season.

Tier Two

Clubs that finish in 5th to 12th place in the current NPL NSW Youth – 1.2 Competition based on Youth Club Championship standings at the end of the 2021 season; and
Clubs that finish in 1st to 8th place in the NPL NSW Youth – 2.1 Competition based on Youth Club Championship standings at the end of the 2021 season.

Tier Three

Clubs that finish in 9th to 12th place in the NPL NSW Youth – 2.1 Competition based on Youth Club Championship standings at the end of the 2021 season; and
All 12 clubs in the current NPL NSW Youth – 2.2 Competition
So basically Jets teams playing Sydney teams rated 17th to 32nd in same age group. Alternatively would have played top dozen teams in age above if stayed here, and would have avoided all the travel issues.

[jim wallis]

Why do you think those particular teams are better than up here. Some of the NNSW NPL teams play those teams in trials. Some of them aren’t competitive match ups. They aren’t the best in Sydney because they are playing in youth league one. Some of them are on par or below us. With maybe a a couple hard done by being pushed down when the restructure happened. A heap of the league has come from the bottom division in youth league that were pushed up when it changed.

Worried about bagging the jets, but kids have left to play back up here instead of playing those teams in Sydney. There’s a reason there. I’ve also seen some very good football up here, even though people here consistently bag our own league.

Ive watched both comps over the last 3 years. Your Jets bagging and local comp praising is getting boring and is out of wack.
Yes our local comp has some top players who choose to be there but the gulf between the top 5 and the lower half is daylight and thats a problem.
In the NSW2 comp the bottom 3 can still pose a challenge and apart from a good coach that's the important part.

The reasons some kids left the jets wasnt because of the competition.

[jim wallis]

So basically Jets teams playing Sydney teams rated 17th to 32nd in same age group. Alternatively would have played top dozen teams in age above if stayed here, and would have avoided all the travel issues.

If we are speaking about seniors you have a point.

If we had a team looking for real professional footy then they should wait and climb the NSWnpl. If we have players who will ultimately stay here then play local NPL.

[samcan]

After looking at npl youth over the last few weeks. We do need an 8 team comp at the top. Far too many passengers in this league especially 13s 14s

[BS detecor]

After looking at npl youth over the last few weeks. We do need an 8 team comp at the top. Far too many passengers in this league especially 13s 14s

Maybe 10 of you want to keep the mid coast and north coast teams. The bottom 3 are pretty much the same in every grade and would be better off in the second division

[The Hacker]

Maybe 10 of you want to keep the mid coast and north coast teams. The bottom 3 are pretty much the same in every grade and would be better off in the second division

There is always a team going to come last and in any league in any age there is a spread from top team to last team. No comp is close between every team. That’s called a fantasy. In the premier league there is 68 points between first and last. Adamstown apparently have a good 12’s team according to this forum so that helps start the cycle. Weston, Cooks Hill, Lakes, Adamstown aren’t setting the world on fire. But I imagine not through a lack of trying. Lambtons 16’s are average, Mid North Coast are in the bottom half of every ladder. You can’t click your fingers and go from last to first. If it was that easy everyone would do it. It takes time a patient. Something clearly short in some people’s opinion

[BS detecor]

There is always a team going to come last and in any league in any age there is a spread from top team to last team. No comp is close between every team. That’s called a fantasy. In the premier league there is 68 points between first and last.

In the premier league the last 3 teams drop to the second division

[The Hacker]

[QUOTE=BS detecor;258411]In the premier league the last 3 teams drop to the second division[/QUOTE

I know then they usually go straight back down. When’s the last time a team got promoted then made the top 4 the next year. Never. Why cause they need time to build it’s not a click of the finger. But once you get there it’s also hard to fall out of the top half. It is a vicious cycle to break

[BS detecor]

[QUOTE=BS detecor;258411]In the premier league the last 3 teams drop to the second division[/QUOTE

I know then they usually go straight back down. When’s the last time a team got promoted then made the top 4 the next year. Never. Why cause they need time to build it’s not a click of the finger. But once you get there it’s also hard to fall out of the top half. It is a vicious cycle to break

True. Kids will always get better if they play better opposition but I guess the downside is how long can a kid get towelled every week year after year before they have had enough. There are pretty much 4 teams who are only going to take points off each other and if you’re not even getting points there then the game can get hard to love.

[Aegon]

True. Kids will always get better if they play better opposition but I guess the downside is how long can a kid get towelled every week year after year before they have had enough. There are pretty much 4 teams who are only going to take points off each other and if you’re not even getting points there then the game can get hard to love.

Clubs can turn it around. Look at the job Maitland have done with their Youth over the last few seasons. Pro/Rel should still be part of the solution as it would incentive some clubs to take it more seriously.

[sapdad]

If you draw a line around 10th now in 13s it leaves Charlestown as the bottom club and they copped 10 today vs Jaffas.I dont like that results are the only reference point in youth football but can understand why.I think there will always be cannon fodder its just a matter of how many kids want to cop it week in week out.Some clubs are clear that they are only working towards 18's and seniors.Some clubs spent the JDL years cutting kids and poaching others in the pursuit of results.Some kids who didnt make their 1st choice NPL team would rather drop down a division instead of going to a lower club just so they win.Will that make them better off in the hope of playing NPL seniors?I doubt it.Just to be clear i dont pretend to have all the answers,because every solution offers up a different set of problems.

[samcan]

There is always a team going to come last and in any league in any age there is a spread from top team to last team. No comp is close between every team. That’s called a fantasy. In the premier league there is 68 points between first and last. Adamstown apparently have a good 12’s team according to this forum so that helps start the cycle. Weston, Cooks Hill, Lakes, Adamstown aren’t setting the world on fire. But I imagine not through a lack of trying. Lambtons 16’s are average, Mid North Coast are in the bottom half of every ladder. You can’t click your fingers and go from last to first. If it was that easy everyone would do it. It takes time a patient. Something clearly short in some people’s opinion

So heres the deal. 8 teams in 3 divisions Y1,Y2,Y3 with 1 team up/down. Here's why.

If there's 8 local teams (maybe added mid/north coast) these Y1 clubs can strengthen those week grades to ensure all grades are very competitive right through. nearly every game is a contest. Initially any team with a weak age can "attract" better players.
Now this will weaken certain clubs a little in the beginning especially if they had one good grade but these clubs are letting down other clubs in 2/3 other age divisions with lopsided games.

One team up/down each year means that only the team going up needs to ensure all their grades are ready. Other clubs can build as they see fit to rise when they are ready if they want. Clubs like Rosebuds or Lake Mac might really suit Y2 grade as they focus wholly on the player and not results. Other clubs like Toronto might be happy in Y3 so they arent pressured to find 4 youth sides to match NL/Southy/BelS and or other strong teams that can turn kids away.

As we have seen not everyone wants to play NPL if it means getting smashed. So this theory proposes that those last are still fairly competitive and those that arent strong enough for Y1 can be successful in decent company in Y2 or Y3.

Right now we are kidding ourselves with this structure. Its getting harder each year to find a good game to watch.

[BS detecor]

It will be interesting to see if the youth decoupling proposal goes ahead because it looks like a step forward

[sapdad]

So heres the deal. 8 teams in 3 divisions Y1,Y2,Y3 with 1 team up/down. Here's why.

If there's 8 local teams (maybe added mid/north coast) these Y1 clubs can strengthen those week grades to ensure all grades are very competitive right through. nearly every game is a contest. Initially any team with a weak age can "attract" better players.
Now this will weaken certain clubs a little in the beginning especially if they had one good grade but these clubs are letting down other clubs in 2/3 other age divisions with lopsided games.

One team up/down each year means that only the team going up needs to ensure all their grades are ready. Other clubs can build as they see fit to rise when they are ready if they want. Clubs like Rosebuds or Lake Mac might really suit Y2 grade as they focus wholly on the player and not results. Other clubs like Toronto might be happy in Y3 so they arent pressured to find 4 youth sides to match NL/Southy/BelS and or other strong teams that can turn kids away.

As we have seen not everyone wants to play NPL if it means getting smashed. So this theory proposes that those last are still fairly competitive and those that arent strong enough for Y1 can be successful in decent company in Y2 or Y3.

Right now we are kidding ourselves with this structure. Its getting harder each year to find a good game to watch.

I like this proposal and its pretty similar to the majority of opinions on the forum.Another thing id like to see in youth if it is indeed based on a "club championship" is that clubs are awarded some sort of incentive for their own JDL players.Not sure exactly how to word it but rewarding clubs for having NPL youth that has come through their JDL system would certainly change some clubs behavior.Maybe having an incentive for clubs to play kids with at least 2 years JDL or community experience at a club would make a difference and help clubs avoid relegation if they are on the cusp.

[KITZ]

[QUOTE=The Hacker;258414]

True. Kids will always get better if they play better opposition but I guess the downside is how long can a kid get towelled every week year after year before they have had enough. There are pretty much 4 teams who are only going to take points off each other and if you’re not even getting points there then the game can get hard to love.

There’s a few in the older ages groups now who came out of 13s/14s from clubs down the bottom and they def deserve to be playing NPL.

It’s definitely tough, but it does make tough players with the right mindset as well. Hard call to say that at 13 they don’t deserve to be playing top tier football because of how players all develop at different times.

It’s definitely hard to get the balance right and every kid is going to have a different developmental pathway.

[The Hacker]

[QUOTE=BS detecor;258416]

There’s a few in the older ages groups now who came out of 13s/14s from clubs down the bottom and they def deserve to be playing NPL.

It’s definitely tough, but it does make tough players with the right mindset as well. Hard call to say that at 13 they don’t deserve to be playing top tier football because of how players all develop at different times.

It’s definitely hard to get the balance right and every kid is going to have a different developmental pathway.

If they actually decouple it what time frame would you do it. It would be hard to pull the trigger on it for next season

[BS detecor]

Cool story bro


[QUOTE=KITZ;258432]

If they actually decouple it what time frame would you do it. It would be hard to pull the trigger on it for next season

It would be a 2 year process I believe

[The Hacker]

[QUOTE=The Hacker;258437]

It would be a 2 year process I believe

So 2023 and 2024 to get your house in order

[BS detecor]

I’ve heard They might incorporate a cup competition which would be an exciting addition for the youth if it was true

[WOW2.0]

Pro/Rel for youth is interesting, do you include the local adult competition as well?

Some dynamic ways clubs could think about approaching this

Plenty of talented kids miss out due to the high costs, maybe offer those kids, with high potential scholarships, etc (pay for play opportunities are abhorrent, and hold the country back)

A transfer system would also help to incentivise development outcomes :)

[Captain_Carl]

Pro/Rel for youth is interesting, do you include the local adult competition as well?

Some dynamic ways clubs could think about approaching this

Plenty of talented kids miss out due to the high costs, maybe offer those kids, with high potential scholarships, etc (pay for play opportunities are abhorrent, and hold the country back)

A transfer system would also help to incentivise development outcomes :)

What I would like to know is are North Coast and Mid Coast part of this also? Can they be relegated? The good players in those areas can’t jump across to a better club if they go down a division. Thoughts?

[Bremsstrahlung]

What I would like to know is are North Coast and Mid Coast part of this also? Can they be relegated? The good players in those areas can’t jump across to a better club if they go down a division. Thoughts?

Yes.
The promotion relegation things doesn’t work if there’s protected species. The aim is to end up with the best in the top, not the best 6 and 2 others.

[sapdad]

What I would like to know is are North Coast and Mid Coast part of this also? Can they be relegated? The good players in those areas can’t jump across to a better club if they go down a division. Thoughts?

Its a good point but I agree that they would all have to play by the same rules.NIAS being in NL1 is a good example too.Understandably it would be really tough on kids in that area who miss out but trying to make every situation perfect usually discourages any change at all.

[jessepinkman]

Pro/Rel for youth is interesting, do you include the local adult competition as well?

Some dynamic ways clubs could think about approaching this

Plenty of talented kids miss out due to the high costs, maybe offer those kids, with high potential scholarships, etc (pay for play opportunities are abhorrent, and hold the country back)

A transfer system would also help to incentivise development outcomes :)

Domestic transfer system is absolutely needed and is basically the only way forward to truly lower costs for talented players.

Simply, clubs need to make some $ out of their time and effort. If they cant make it in the form of investing in the players development and picking up a fee and any future % fees as a result, they'll charge more for it. Pretty simple.

FFA are talking about a DTS and are ready to implement it, but what I have mentioned above will, unfortunately, benefit clubs too much and not enough of the $ will funnel back to the member feds, so I assume there will be something added to it that eats at the club pie and regurgitates it back into the member feds as usual.

[terry]

Pro/Rel for youth is interesting, do you include the local adult competition as well?

Nope. They have their own club championship points 18 res 1st.

And no club including the travelers are exempt from pro rel.

what it will do is get the best players against each other and allow those that arent at the level yet develop in other grades.

[terry]

Plenty of talented kids miss out due to the high costs, maybe offer those kids, with high potential scholarships, etc (pay for play opportunities are abhorrent, and hold the country back

Agree.

BUT, we are in pov town with pov clubs and no chance of providing dollars to finance this. Coming out of other player rego would be a no.
NNSW sit on hands charging everyone else like a wounded but not sure where they are spending millions.

[AVB]

Agree.

BUT, we are in pov town with pov clubs and no chance of providing dollars to finance this. Coming out of other player rego would be a no.
NNSW sit on hands charging everyone else like a wounded but not sure where they are spending millions.

Cooks Hill has a fund set aside for exactly this purpose. To support local kids who otherwise would not be able to participate not just in NPL but football at all levels. There are ~10 kids this year who have been beneficiary of this fund.

Clubs supporting youth players financially to participate does not have to be financed from regos either. All clubs, at all levels generate income through sponsorship, canteens, fundraisers. Football and finances should not be about the individual, players are part of a club and that club exists in a community. Choosing to spend money on community minded endeavours is part of any good community organisation.

I'd be surprised if every club in the city didn't have some sort of support to assist players who would otherwise not afford it.

[terry]

Cooks Hill has a fund set aside for exactly this purpose. To support local kids who otherwise would not be able to participate not just in NPL but football at all levels. There are ~10 kids this year who have been beneficiary of this fund.

Clubs supporting youth players financially to participate does not have to be financed from regos either. All clubs, at all levels generate income through sponsorship, canteens, fundraisers. Football and finances should not be about the individual, players are part of a club and that club exists in a community. Choosing to spend money on community minded endeavours is part of any good community organisation.

I'd be surprised if every club in the city didn't have some sort of support to assist players who would otherwise not afford it.

Once again well done to Cookers. You guys seem to know how to get around the red tape inc council to move your club forward in many areas.

Ill bet you have a plan for your youth next year?

[KITZ]

Cooks Hill has a fund set aside for exactly this purpose. To support local kids who otherwise would not be able to participate not just in NPL but football at all levels. There are ~10 kids this year who have been beneficiary of this fund.

Clubs supporting youth players financially to participate does not have to be financed from regos either. All clubs, at all levels generate income through sponsorship, canteens, fundraisers. Football and finances should not be about the individual, players are part of a club and that club exists in a community. Choosing to spend money on community minded endeavours is part of any good community organisation.

I'd be surprised if every club in the city didn't have some sort of support to assist players who would otherwise not afford it.

I believe a lot of clubs do help if approached, but particularly as we are talking about teenagers, would probably prefer it not be advertised, unless its a merit based scholarship..

Hard enough getting through being a teenager at the best of times, without it being plastered on social media that your parents can't afford for you to pay I would think.

[terry]

Shout out to the clubs who put postponed matches and ground changes on their FB page. helps with logistics.

[Premy]

Cooks Hill has a fund set aside for exactly this purpose. To support local kids who otherwise would not be able to participate not just in NPL but football at all levels. There are ~10 kids this year who have been beneficiary of this fund.

Clubs supporting youth players financially to participate does not have to be financed from regos either. All clubs, at all levels generate income through sponsorship, canteens, fundraisers. Football and finances should not be about the individual, players are part of a club and that club exists in a community. Choosing to spend money on community minded endeavours is part of any good community organisation.

I'd be surprised if every club in the city didn't have some sort of support to assist players who would otherwise not afford it.
Precisely, this is how a "community" organisation should be ran and those that do so should be commended. Well done to those at Cooks Hill involved in this program.

Unfortunately at some club's, people's ego's and personal preferences get put before what is best for the "community" aspect of club's. Then there is the aspect of some that purely see a club as something that should be revenue driven and devoid of transparency.

[WOW2.0]

I would like to see, if they decoupled the seniors to the youth, to further decouple all age groups...a group of really talented group at an underperforming club should not be punished, and they should not be disincentivised to leave to pursue "better" options...just grade them all based on their previous year's performance

Also think, with a transfer system...it would be wrong for clubs to charge any fees, at the same time as "selling the finished product" ... Akin to double dipping

[sapdad]

I would like to see, if they decoupled the seniors to the youth, to further decouple all age groups...a group of really talented group at an underperforming club should not be punished, and they should not be disincentivised to leave to pursue "better" options...just grade them all based on their previous year's performance


This would be the fairest way to do it from a playing perspective,but it will never happen as the draw and ground logistics would be a nightmare.To be fair theres not many clubs that have one team right at the top and the rest at the bottom.Most clubs youth seem pretty similar spots on the table.For the one or two teams it will stuff around it wont make it worthwhile.Plus theres players helping out in the grades above on gamedays that is happening way more than i thought it would so far this year.

[KITZ]

This would be the fairest way to do it from a playing perspective,but it will never happen as the draw and ground logistics would be a nightmare.To be fair theres not many clubs that have one team right at the top and the rest at the bottom.Most clubs youth seem pretty similar spots on the table.For the one or two teams it will stuff around it wont make it worthwhile.Plus theres players helping out in the grades above on gamedays that is happening way more than i thought it would so far this year.

sometimes a couple of ages up, especially if there ends up being a few injuries across a game day, it can be up to the football gods some weeks!

[samcan]

further decouple all age groups...a group of really talented group at an underperforming club should not be punished, and they should not be disincentivised to leave to pursue "better" options...just grade them all based on their previous year's performance


This won't work as reasons from above which does hurt some clubs with that 1 strong grade.
But clubs need to be vigilant across all grades if they really want that top division.

Even youth it is a disadvantage for clubs who dont have $$$ but that is a barrier they need to solve.

[Hunter403]

What will be interesting when decoupling comes is how the cost will impact players/clubs. Current NPL clubs charge a lot more than NL1 clubs. Now that they are all likely to be in the same comp (albeit with multiple levels) will the "cheaper" clubs become more attractive? Might not happen immediately, but could be a consequence. And if NPL clubs are forced to be cheaper, how will that impact the senior squad and budgets.

Interesting times ahead!

[sapdad]

What will be interesting when decoupling comes is how the cost will impact players/clubs. Current NPL clubs charge a lot more than NL1 clubs. Now that they are all likely to be in the same comp (albeit with multiple levels) will the "cheaper" clubs become more attractive? Might not happen immediately, but could be a consequence. And if NPL clubs are forced to be cheaper, how will that impact the senior squad and budgets.

Interesting times ahead!

I cant see registrations becoming cheaper no matter what happens.They never do.As long as parents and players feel they are getting value for money it wont be an issue regardless of the grade.

[Hunter403]

I cant see registrations becoming cheaper no matter what happens.They never do.As long as parents and players feel they are getting value for money it wont be an issue regardless of the grade.

I can't imagine too many NL1 clubs will want to raise fees to match NPL. They have struggled enough this year to filed teams and some can't. I've been told one of the reasons why Cooks Hill can't field a team this year in the 16s is the increased cost was not what parents were promised. If you are a parent of a kid in a current NPL club that gets "dropped" to the second tier, will you want to pay what you did at the top level when you are no longer in it?

As I said, interesting times ahead!

[sapdad]

I can't imagine too many NL1 clubs will want to raise fees to match NPL. They have struggled enough this year to filed teams and some can't. I've been told one of the reasons why Cooks Hill can't field a team this year in the 16s is the increased cost was not what parents were promised. If you are a parent of a kid in a current NPL club that gets "dropped" to the second tier, will you want to pay what you did at the top level when you are no longer in it?

As I said, interesting times ahead!

Does anyone know the difference in fees between the dearest in NPL and cheapest in NL1? I was told most NPL were around $1300.I agree that gouging clubs on rego just because they are now 'NPL' level whether level 1,2 or 3 is stupid and greedy.The federations should have a fixed fee as their cut and then let clubs charge whatever they determine to be the cost of running their programs.Id love to call for a maximum price but that wont happen either.

[samcan]

What will be interesting when decoupling comes is how the cost will impact players/clubs. Current NPL clubs charge a lot more than NL1 clubs. Now that they are all likely to be in the same comp (albeit with multiple levels) will the "cheaper" clubs become more attractive? Might not happen immediately, but could be a consequence. And if NPL clubs are forced to be cheaper, how will that impact the senior squad and budgets.

How will this affect club finances? Decoupling won't affect where the club $$$ goes. Youth rego still goes to seniors.

The only difference is club champion pts determines the grade and draw.

[Goatscheese]

The federations should have a fixed fee as their cut and then let clubs charge whatever they determine to be the cost of running their programs.

Umm Northern do have a fixed fee (equates to about $70 per player). The clubs do charge whatever they want.

NPL clubs are charging around $1,500, HitFM are around the $1,000 mark

[Hunter403]

Umm Northern do have a fixed fee (equates to about $70 per player). The clubs do charge whatever they want.

NPL clubs are charging around $1,500, HitFM are around the $1,000 mark

try $850 and $800 at two NL1 clubs that I know of.

[Bremsstrahlung]

try $850 and $800 at two NL1 clubs that I know of.

Wow.
10 years ago, paid 350 or 400 for seniors NBN.
What’s changed?
Doubt anything has changed to warrant 4x $$$.

[sapdad]

Umm Northern do have a fixed fee (equates to about $70 per player). The clubs do charge whatever they want.

NPL clubs are charging around $1,500, HitFM are around the $1,000 mark

Sorry I didnt word my post very well.I understand clubs charge whatever they want but didnt know if the feds fixed fee was the same across all levels (grassroots to seniors) or if they had different rates.

[AVB]

Sorry I didnt word my post very well.I understand clubs charge whatever they want but didnt know if the feds fixed fee was the same across all levels (grassroots to seniors) or if they had different rates.

Club Fees to NNSW for NPL are as follows:

Per Youth player: $124.88
Per Snr Player: $209.69
Competition fee: $10,243.75
Match Official Appointments officer: $770
FFA Cup: $907.50
Discipline Levy: $825
Match official Fees: $13,945

Rough numbers total then assuming 36 Snr players, 64 Youth Players:

Total NPL Participation Fees: $44,193.49

So only considering the money paid to NNSW that divided by 110 players is $402 per player

That's obviously before any club costs -> Ground hire and maintenance, Coaching, TDs, Equipment, clothing etc, etc

[Spell Check]

Club Fees to NNSW for NPL are as follows:

Per Youth player: $124.88
Per Snr Player: $209.69
Competition fee: $10,243.75
Match Official Appointments officer: $770
FFA Cup: $907.50
Discipline Levy: $825
Match official Fees: $13,945

Rough numbers total then assuming 36 Snr players, 64 Youth Players:

Total NPL Participation Fees: $44,193.49

So only considering the money paid to NNSW that divided by 110 players is $402 per player

That's obviously before any club costs -> Ground hire and maintenance, Coaching, TDs, Equipment, clothing etc, etc

This is good insight.

So most of our NPL clubs charge approx $1500 per head fees for youth. Some more, some less, but let’s go with $1500.

Based on 64 youth players most clubs would generate $96K in fees. Minus $44K fees, there is a $50K surplus. How much does the ground hire/maintenance, coaching, equipment cost generally? It’s not $50K hopefully.

Add your JDL fees on top, minus your coaching, ground fees again, and NPL clubs should have the funds available to progress well. What they do with that money however is the source of debate and frustration as most accept this goes into the senior funds.

If we are decoupling youth, let’s decouple the fee streams as well and see whether we can develop our youth better. More money should mean better coaching, development, opportunities. That’s something we can all get on board with.

[AVB]

This is good insight.

So most of our NPL clubs charge approx $1500 per head fees for youth. Some more, some less, but letÂ’s go with $1500.

Based on 64 youth players most clubs would generate $96K in fees. Minus $44K fees, there is a $50K surplus. How much does the ground hire/maintenance, coaching, equipment cost generally? ItÂ’s not $50K hopefully.

Add your JDL fees on top, minus your coaching, ground fees again, and NPL clubs should have the funds available to progress well. What they do with that money however is the source of debate and frustration as most accept this goes into the senior funds.

If we are decoupling youth, letÂ’s decouple the fee streams as well and see whether we can develop our youth better. More money should mean better coaching, development, opportunities. ThatÂ’s something we can all get on board with.

I think you're heavily underestimating costs for clubs here.

Average grounds rental for year including lighting etc $30,000
Maintenance on ground $10,000
Clothing - $200 per player: 200 * 100 players = $20,000
Youth coaching not sure but maybe $1500 per team? Plus TD which is mainly youth focused at maybe $10/15k? + 10/15K per 1st grade team?
Equipment ~$5kpa?

So let's assume 100 players at $1500 each rego, that's 150k

less NNSW fees, that's $105K

Less the club costs (~$95K) above is ~$10k left.

I'm sure there are heaps of activities clubs do that I haven't considered costs for. I also see clubs at Gyms, or LMRFF. Clubs have match day physios, VEO Cameras etc

The cost of regos is very high, but the reality is that the price is more or less the cost of running the programs. Demand has shifted to expect a much higher quality program. Qualified coaches and TDs, demand for the best quality pitches, expectations around clothing, expectations around training equipment and facilities etc

The obvious question is how are 1st grade players paid etc, and clubs would argue that they are paid from sponsorship, gate takings, canteen taking etc.

[sapdad]

Club Fees to NNSW for NPL are as follows:

Per Youth player: $124.88
Per Snr Player: $209.69
Competition fee: $10,243.75
Match Official Appointments officer: $770
FFA Cup: $907.50
Discipline Levy: $825
Match official Fees: $13,945

Rough numbers total then assuming 36 Snr players, 64 Youth Players:

Total NPL Participation Fees: $44,193.49

So only considering the money paid to NNSW that divided by 110 players is $402 per player

That's obviously before any club costs -> Ground hire and maintenance, Coaching, TDs, Equipment, clothing etc, etc

Those numbers are really interesting thanks for posting.

[Spell Check]

I think you're heavily underestimating costs for clubs here.

Average grounds rental for year including lighting etc $30,000
Maintenance on ground $10,000
Clothing - $200 per player: 200 * 100 players = $20,000
Youth coaching not sure but maybe $1500 per team? Plus TD which is mainly youth focused at maybe $10/15k? + 10/15K per 1st grade team?
Equipment ~$5kpa?

So let's assume 100 players at $1500 each rego, that's 150k

less NNSW fees, that's $105K

Less the club costs (~$95K) above is ~$10k left.

I'm sure there are heaps of activities clubs do that I haven't considered costs for. I also see clubs at Gyms, or LMRFF. Clubs have match day physios, VEO Cameras etc

The cost of regos is very high, but the reality is that the price is more or less the cost of running the programs. Demand has shifted to expect a much higher quality program. Qualified coaches and TDs, demand for the best quality pitches, expectations around clothing, expectations around training equipment and facilities etc

The obvious question is how are 1st grade players paid etc, and clubs would argue that they are paid from sponsorship, gate takings, canteen taking etc.

My feel is that you may be overestimating the costs for grounds, maintenance, kit. Remember that a club pays one set of ground fees whether its for JDL, youth or seniors, and then recoups fees across all these groups. Some clubs include kit in the rego fees, others charge more on top. Coaching fees are minimal, somewhere around the amount one youth player rego fees. Yes some train out at Speers Point but equipment is not an every year thing. I am confident after all outlays there is ample left for this to be ploughed back into youth but it does not. It goes into a seniors black hole and doesn't come out again.

Yes sponsorship, gate money, canteen helps pay seniors but younger grades fees help more. I would just like to see what goes in to youth comes out at the other end. Clubs are generally doing good jobs across the cities in youth but on a shoestring when there could be more $$ if youth fees were kept separate from seniors.

Show me a club that publishes there full fees breakdown from seniors down to JDL. If you cannot then ask why.

[Hunter403]

Competition fee: $10,243.75


This is the interesting number. What on earth does this cover?

[Thomas477]

This is the interesting number. What on earth does this cover?

Maintaining LMRFF, despite northern not actually owning the land.

[Aegon]

NNSWF Memo - MEMO 41-2022

Postponed Matches in Second Half of the Season (13-18s Only)
As previously mentioned, we currently have 340+ rescheduled matches, some of which are now starting to be rescheduled as late as July. Many of the rescheduled matches this and coming midweeks are also unlikely to be played because of the current continued rain and will need to be rescheduled to a later date.

Given the current weather situation is predicted to continue for the coming months, NNSWF can confirm that any match, under 13 through to under 18 (inclusive), that is postponed in the second half of the season, in the specific rounds noted below, will not be rescheduled, and will be declared 0-0. For clarity this will apply to matches in the following rounds of competitions:

League / Rounds that will not be replayed if postponed
NPLM 18s / Rounds 13-22 (plus rescheduled round 1 in August)
NPLM 13-16s / Rounds 14-26
NPLW 13-17s / Rounds 15-21
NL1 18s / Rounds 12-22
NL1 13-15s / Rounds 12-22

For the avoidance of doubt, all 1st Grade and Reserves matches will be rescheduled and only declared 00 if we reach a point in the season where they do not impact final league positions.

It is Northern NSW Football’s intention to ensure, at a minimum, all matches from the first half of the season are played. Whilst we understand not playing matches is extremely disappointing, it is realistic to predict that we will still have matches originally postponed from the first half the season being played in July and August in the lead up to finals.

[ForeverRed]

Rego refunds galore

[KITZ]

NNSWF Memo - MEMO 41-2022

Postponed Matches in Second Half of the Season (13-18s Only)
As previously mentioned, we currently have 340+ rescheduled matches, some of which are now starting to be rescheduled as late as July. Many of the rescheduled matches this and coming midweeks are also unlikely to be played because of the current continued rain and will need to be rescheduled to a later date.

Given the current weather situation is predicted to continue for the coming months, NNSWF can confirm that any match, under 13 through to under 18 (inclusive), that is postponed in the second half of the season, in the specific rounds noted below, will not be rescheduled, and will be declared 0-0. For clarity this will apply to matches in the following rounds of competitions:

League / Rounds that will not be replayed if postponed
NPLM 18s / Rounds 13-22 (plus rescheduled round 1 in August)
NPLM 13-16s / Rounds 14-26
NPLW 13-17s / Rounds 15-21
NL1 18s / Rounds 12-22
NL1 13-15s / Rounds 12-22

For the avoidance of doubt, all 1st Grade and Reserves matches will be rescheduled and only declared 00 if we reach a point in the season where they do not impact final league positions.

It is Northern NSW Football’s intention to ensure, at a minimum, all matches from the first half of the season are played. Whilst we understand not playing matches is extremely disappointing, it is realistic to predict that we will still have matches originally postponed from the first half the season being played in July and August in the lead up to finals.

Considering that NPL clubs don't share their grounds its ridiculous to not just extend the season. Particularly for youth players. Just let them keep playing. I don't get the point, football for these kids is pretty much year around anyway.

What on earth are we all paying for if they don't play or train?

and

Why aren't they rescheduling games mid week at speers?

[sapdad]

NNSWF Memo - MEMO 41-2022

Postponed Matches in Second Half of the Season (13-18s Only)
As previously mentioned, we currently have 340+ rescheduled matches, some of which are now starting to be rescheduled as late as July. Many of the rescheduled matches this and coming midweeks are also unlikely to be played because of the current continued rain and will need to be rescheduled to a later date.

Given the current weather situation is predicted to continue for the coming months, NNSWF can confirm that any match, under 13 through to under 18 (inclusive), that is postponed in the second half of the season, in the specific rounds noted below, will not be rescheduled, and will be declared 0-0. For clarity this will apply to matches in the following rounds of competitions:

League / Rounds that will not be replayed if postponed
NPLM 18s / Rounds 13-22 (plus rescheduled round 1 in August)
NPLM 13-16s / Rounds 14-26
NPLW 13-17s / Rounds 15-21
NL1 18s / Rounds 12-22
NL1 13-15s / Rounds 12-22

For the avoidance of doubt, all 1st Grade and Reserves matches will be rescheduled and only declared 00 if we reach a point in the season where they do not impact final league positions.

It is Northern NSW Football’s intention to ensure, at a minimum, all matches from the first half of the season are played. Whilst we understand not playing matches is extremely disappointing, it is realistic to predict that we will still have matches originally postponed from the first half the season being played in July and August in the lead up to finals.

I wonder if this will be policed or if NNSW will allow games to be played if both clubs can accomodate it?I can imagine the pressure some clubs would place on NNSW if their team needs a win to make semis in those final weeks.

[northern_swan]

My feel is that you may be overestimating the costs for grounds, maintenance, kit. Remember that a club pays one set of ground fees whether its for JDL, youth or seniors, and then recoups fees across all these groups.

That’s not how it works in Lake Macquarie. For each player, a seasonal training fee & a seasonal game fee is levied by council (via their facility operating committee on a per player basis.

2022 Tier 1 fields (adult $/child $)
Training: $41/$24
Playing:$57/$35

Tier 2 fields
Training: $26/$15
Playing: $41/26

It can add up pretty quickly. I would guess clubs like Azzuri (NPL/WNPL) Kahibah (NL1, ZL, community), Warners Bay (WNPL, ZL, community) & Valentine (NPL, community) who run in different levels of competition would be forking out $20k or more per year on council fees.

[Spell Check]

That’s not how it works in Lake Macquarie. For each player, a seasonal training fee & a seasonal game fee is levied by council (via their facility operating committee on a per player basis.

2022 Tier 1 fields (adult $/child $)
Training: $41/$24
Playing:$57/$35

Tier 2 fields
Training: $26/$15
Playing: $41/26

It can add up pretty quickly. I would guess clubs like Azzuri (NPL/WNPL) Kahibah (NL1, ZL, community), Warners Bay (WNPL, ZL, community) & Valentine (NPL, community) who run in different levels of competition would be forking out $20k or more per year on council fees.

If this is the case then things have changed since my time on committees, noting that was in the NCC area. So on a tier 1 field LMCC charge a kid between $41 - $59 a season for training and games and seniors $67 - $98 for ground use. What do clubs get for their buck? Is this for the standard mowing and maintenance? What's the chances of LMCC providing clubs a refund for a year like this where kids aren't getting on the paddock and fields aren't getting mowed?

[Spell Check]

Considering that NPL clubs don't share their grounds its ridiculous to not just extend the season. Particularly for youth players. Just let them keep playing. I don't get the point, football for these kids is pretty much year around anyway.

What on earth are we all paying for if they don't play or train?

and

Why aren't they rescheduling games mid week at speers?

100%

My boy has played 6 games this comp season and I can guarantee his club would choose matches over training every time. Why not forget the Speers Point full field training sessions and play games at those times instead? Clubs are out there training from 8 o'clock some week nights so let's just get the midweek games played.

[BS detecor]

100%

My boy has played 6 games this comp season and I can guarantee his club would choose matches over training every time. Why not forget the Speers Point full field training sessions and play games at those times instead? Clubs are out there training from 8 o'clock some week nights so let's just get the midweek games played.

This app needs a like button

[jim wallis]

That’s not how it works in Lake Macquarie. For each player, a seasonal training fee & a seasonal game fee is levied by council (via their facility operating committee on a per player basis.

2022 Tier 1 fields (adult $/child $)
Training: $41/$24
Playing:$57/$35

Tier 2 fields
Training: $26/$15
Playing: $41/26

It can add up pretty quickly. I would guess clubs like Azzuri (NPL/WNPL) Kahibah (NL1, ZL, community), Warners Bay (WNPL, ZL, community) & Valentine (NPL, community) who run in different levels of competition would be forking out $20k or more per year on council fees.

Wait. How does players numbers dictate field maintenance?

The field will need a certain amount of fert, soils, man and machine hours and regardless of traffic. Yes a little more materials for an extra team or 2.

There should be a set amount per field regardless of numbers. That way we might be able to reduce rego.

[BS detecor]

NNSWF Memo - MEMO 41-2022

Postponed Matches in Second Half of the Season (13-18s Only)
As previously mentioned, we currently have 340+ rescheduled matches, some of which are now starting to be rescheduled as late as July. Many of the rescheduled matches this and coming midweeks are also unlikely to be played because of the current continued rain and will need to be rescheduled to a later date.

Given the current weather situation is predicted to continue for the coming months, NNSWF can confirm that any match, under 13 through to under 18 (inclusive), that is postponed in the second half of the season, in the specific rounds noted below, will not be rescheduled, and will be declared 0-0. For clarity this will apply to matches in the following rounds of competitions:

League / Rounds that will not be replayed if postponed
NPLM 18s / Rounds 13-22 (plus rescheduled round 1 in August)
NPLM 13-16s / Rounds 14-26
NPLW 13-17s / Rounds 15-21
NL1 18s / Rounds 12-22
NL1 13-15s / Rounds 12-22

For the avoidance of doubt, all 1st Grade and Reserves matches will be rescheduled and only declared 00 if we reach a point in the season where they do not impact final league positions.

It is Northern NSW Football’s intention to ensure, at a minimum, all matches from the first half of the season are played. Whilst we understand not playing matches is extremely disappointing, it is realistic to predict that we will still have matches originally postponed from the first half the season being played in July and August in the lead up to finals.


It will be interesting to see how many wash outs in the second round by clubs who would prefer a draw

[northern_swan]

If this is the case then things have changed since my time on committees, noting that was in the NCC area. So on a tier 1 field LMCC charge a kid between $41 - $59 a season for training and games and seniors $67 - $98 for ground use. What do clubs get for their buck? Is this for the standard mowing and maintenance? What's the chances of LMCC providing clubs a refund for a year like this where kids aren't getting on the paddock and fields aren't getting mowed?
NCC don’t do it that way, I believe it’s a uniquely LMCC thing

Council basically mow the grass and empty the bins & the money collected goes into a fund to go to electricity, repairs &maintenance at the facility. They’ll provide a minimal amount of fertiliser on top of that. Rumour has it that they don’t mind liberally applying growth inhibitors to the grass though ��

Blow a light? That comes out of the fund.
Topdressing? The fund.


Wait. How does players numbers dictate field maintenance?

The field will need a certain amount of fert, soils, man and machine hours and regardless of traffic. Yes a little more materials for an extra team or 2.

There should be a set amount per field regardless of numbers. That way we might be able to reduce rego.

On one hand, the committees that manage the facility get a say in how the revenue generated by the venue is spent.
On the other, the bigger you are as a club, the more discretionary spend you get for r & m

[Spell Check]

NCC don’t do it that way, I believe it’s a uniquely LMCC thing

Council basically mow the grass and empty the bins & the money collected goes into a fund to go to electricity, repairs &maintenance at the facility. They’ll provide a minimal amount of fertiliser on top of that. Rumour has it that they don’t mind liberally applying growth inhibitors to the grass though ��&m

In my time in NCC it is was: club X gets this many fields so cost is per fields allocated to clubs. Some fields better than other so there is a premium on those fields. Council covers mowing, maintenance, bins and club covers electric and water. I can’t get me head around per player charges. Someone in LMCC thought of a way to make a motza and the clubs cop it.

Maybe it works, I don’t know but it doesn’t sit well.

[Spell Check]

The rumour is that by the end next season we’ll have two leagues of youth made from the best of NPL and NL1. The Cookers, Lakes and Adamstown will be worried but will the likes of New Lambton be up for the challenge of the top league? Reading these pages New Lambton has a reputation of not wanting to compete with the big boys. Sounds suss to me as they put the time and money in. Any New Lambton people on here happy to share views?

Anyone got details on how youth is going to look next year and then on?

[Hunter403]

The rumour is that by the end next season we’ll have two leagues of youth made from the best of NPL and NL1. The Cookers, Lakes and Adamstown will be worried but will the likes of New Lambton be up for the challenge of the top league? Reading these pages New Lambton has a reputation of not wanting to compete with the big boys. Sounds suss to me as they put the time and money in. Any New Lambton people on here happy to share views?

Anyone got details on how youth is going to look next year and then on?

That might be the plan, but as NL1 will not have a requirement for youth after decoupling (or so I am told) and given that some NL1 clubs can't field all youth teams now, there might not be enough clubs to have 2 leagues. From the clubs perspective: why bother? c.$800 for NL1 or c.$250 for community football.

NNSW board is rudderless and the CEO has way too much power.

[Spell Check]

That might be the plan, but as NL1 will not have a requirement for youth after decoupling (or so I am told) and given that some NL1 clubs can't field all youth teams now, there might not be enough clubs to have 2 leagues. From the clubs perspective: why bother? c.$800 for NL1 or c.$250 for community football.

NNSW board is rudderless and the CEO has way too much power.

This is interesting. You make a solid point re NL1 clubs not covering all youths grades. If these clubs want in but can’t cover all ages do they automatically go into the bottom tier? Just means some of those less strong clubs get bumped up to the top and their misery continues.

[jim wallis]

This is interesting. You make a solid point re NL1 clubs not covering all youths grades. If these clubs want in but can’t cover all ages do they automatically go into the bottom tier? Just means some of those less strong clubs get bumped up to the top and their misery continues.

Thats the whole idea. Get the house in order or fall. Then you run risk of losing players in other ages.

But that's ok because its about the players being in the right grade not so much the clubs.
In saying that it also favours those clubs who poach the best. Double edged sword.

[Hunter403]

This is interesting. You make a solid point re NL1 clubs not covering all youths grades. If these clubs want in but can’t cover all ages do they automatically go into the bottom tier? Just means some of those less strong clubs get bumped up to the top and their misery continues.

Nope, because of decoupling, having no youth will not be punished unless you have dreams of NPL.

And when NL1 senior grades gets opened to current ZPL sides with no youth at all.........It will happen. Picture a strong current ZPL side going "up" to NL1 and dominating but never seeking promotion to NPL because a)why bother with youth, b) why stop being top dog and c)why take on the added costs/burdens?

Next year will be even worse for NL1 with NL going up (or so rumour central has it).

If I ran a NL1 club, I would can NL1 youth, and drop those teams into community league. Cheaper, simpler and as long as I provide the same quality of coaching etc I will still have young players to make their way up. Worry abut NPL somewhere down the track.

The reality is we are putting lipstick on a pig. We have too many teams in NPL and NL1 for the available talent. We have a CEO that does as he pleases and has promised clubs things and for some reason fears braking those promises. We have a board that won't make the choices needed for today and seems to be under the control of the CEO.

The board needs to make independent decisions based on today's reality and see them implemented for the good of the game. If some clubs are disappointed by that, there will be just as many who are pleased by it. Consensus on here seems to be two comps of 8 with promotion and relegation and a youth stream which is decoupled and includes FNC, NC and NI. If we forum loonies can see it, why can't the games administrators?

If choices were made in reality, there is no way Cookers would have gone up, there is no way NL will go up and there is no way Adamstown, Lakes and Valo would all still be NPL. Think on where we would be today on that basis.

[sapdad]

Using a rough calculation based on a club championship in NPL youth as it stands today Azzuri,Weston,Lakes,Cooks Hill and Rosebuds go down.If you add in New Lambton,Kahibah,South Cardiff,Belswans and NIAS from NL1 you have a pretty strong 2nd tier.All of those clubs (apart from NIAS at the moment) can fill all youth grades and should provide enough spots for the talent level available for kids who want to both develop and test themselves.The fact is there are kids in NL1 that are good enough to play in the bottom half of NPL clubs.Adding in New Lambton next year wont improve any overall level of NPL as they are not better than any of the bottom 5 teams.They may be similar,but they are not better and certainly wont bother the top clubs in youth.

[Oldy]

If choices were made in reality, there is no way Cookers would have gone up, there is no way NL will go up and there is no way Adamstown, Lakes and Valo would all still be NPL. Think on where we would be today on that basis.

We would have games worth watching. yawn

[jessepinkman]

Using a rough calculation based on a club championship in NPL youth as it stands today Azzuri,Weston,Lakes,Cooks Hill and Rosebuds go down.If you add in New Lambton,Kahibah,South Cardiff,Belswans and NIAS from NL1 you have a pretty strong 2nd tier.All of those clubs (apart from NIAS at the moment) can fill all youth grades and should provide enough spots for the talent level available for kids who want to both develop and test themselves.The fact is there are kids in NL1 that are good enough to play in the bottom half of NPL clubs.Adding in New Lambton next year wont improve any overall level of NPL as they are not better than any of the bottom 5 teams.They may be similar,but they are not better and certainly wont bother the top clubs in youth.


That’s the purpose of including them, so that they can be in a position to compete in the future.

In what world would you expect any club not in npl or recently added to npl such as cookers to immediately raise the level of the league?

[sapdad]

In what world would you expect any club not in npl or recently added to npl such as cookers to immediately raise the level of the league?

Thats a question for NNSW I think,they are the ones expanding NPL.I was just siding with the argument that 2 tiers with genuine promotion/relegation is better long term to tick all the boxes youth football is supposed to deliver.

[W8 WATCHER]

We would have games worth watching. yawn

:popcorn:

[WOW2.0]

Interesting to me, following on from Hunter403 comment...if the bills are all fixed from council, ground hire, lighting, etc, and that is the reasoning behind our large fees...how can NL1 charge so much less than NPL, or community even less again (especially if costs are based on a per participant fee)

[WOW2.0]

All caught up, in an 8 team league, would you play each other 3 times, or 4 times to get the number of games played up to a reasonable level

I have an alternative outlandish idea...remove u18s and/or Reserve grade...so that the hoarded talent the top clubs can be pushed and potentially be dispersed to the "weaker clubs"...this would even out the team quality and make the season more competitive

Reminded of a comment from an ex NSL/A-League player from the golden gen (plus a year at Bolton Wanderers)..."if you're not playing with adults, at any of the tiers, by the age of 16...you will not make it as an elite player"

[finzee]

Reminded of a comment from an ex NSL/A-League player from the golden gen (plus a year at Bolton Wanderers)..."if you're not playing with adults, at any of the tiers, by the age of 16...you will not make it as an elite player"

Let's qualify that with a couple of locals. Where was Hoffman, B Kanta, Jade North (hes close isnt he) at 15/16?
Anyone else who play seniors early round here?

[sapdad]

Reminded of a comment from an ex NSL/A-League player from the golden gen (plus a year at Bolton Wanderers)..."if you're not playing with adults, at any of the tiers, by the age of 16...you will not make it as an elite player"

An overwhelming percentage of kids playing NPL or NL1 have no dreams or realistic goals of playing elite football as you call it.Most just love the environment and a lot have real connection to the clubs and communities they represent.The kids that want to go further have Jets and TSP to help them.This notion that every kid pulling on a boot every weekend thinks they are the next Messi is silly.The discussion has always been about how best to help those kids develop and provide good competition for them to reach whatever their potential is.JDL should provide better youth year on year,youth should provide better seniors year on year,the best of that lot will go on to play higher level.This discussion is trying to discuss the best way to makeall of those levels blend into each other to try and raise the overall quality of the program.That way if there is a Viduka or Goodwin amongst them they get to at least not be held up by the system.

[Spell Check]

I have an alternative outlandish idea...remove u18s and/or Reserve grade...so that the hoarded talent the top clubs can be pushed and potentially be dispersed to the "weaker clubs"...this would even out the team quality and make the season more competitive"

This.

Not outlandish at all, but reserves are the thing that have to go. What’s the point of them? Most of the better clubs just have their best 16/17/18 years in reserves anyway so let’s move on those who are hanging around like a bad smell by making them ineligible via 18.

When I see some of the names going around in reggies I just shake my head. They’ll say they are there to provide experience and guidance. I call BS on that - they are there for the ego and whatever coin they can scratch.

Kanta was playing 1st grade at 14/15 years and I am sure they are kids going around in those ages now who could cut the mustard in 1sts. But no chance they will because in this town we recycle old players like they do in the A League. Our culture is holding us back and until that stops we’ll stand still or go backwards.

[Spell Check]

An overwhelming percentage of kids playing NPL or NL1 have no dreams or realistic goals of playing elite football as you call it.Most just love the environment and a lot have real connection to the clubs and communities they represent.The kids that want to go further have Jets and TSP to help them.This notion that every kid pulling on a boot every weekend thinks they are the next Messi is silly.The discussion has always been about how best to help those kids develop and provide good competition for them to reach whatever their potential is.JDL should provide better youth year on year,youth should provide better seniors year on year,the best of that lot will go on to play higher level.This discussion is trying to discuss the best way to makeall of those levels blend into each other to try and raise the overall quality of the program.That way if there is a Viduka or Goodwin amongst them they get to at least not be held up by the system.

Agree that youth isn’t about just those wanting to get to the top, but we have a handbrake on those kids that do which means they stand alongside those kids doing it for fun and friendship. Accelerate the best kids into the older ages pronto and we’ll make some headway.

[sapdad]

Agree that youth isn’t about just those wanting to get to the top, but we have a handbrake on those kids that do which means they stand alongside those kids doing it for fun and friendship. Accelerate the best kids into the older ages pronto and we’ll make some headway.

That is already happening across many clubs in youth.Edgeworth,Maitland,Charlestown and Adamstown for example (im sure there are others)are regularly playing kids up for the experience and have a few kids across most grades playing a year up in their permanent squads.I think a lot of the TSP kids are up a year too.If those opportunites arent happing for other kids maybe they need to find a club that will let them be pushed rather than TDs and coaches keeping them down just to make their teams stronger.Its a balance for sure but those opportunities are out there.

[WOW2.0]

@Finzee, well, we can also include Archie Goodwin playing in the A-League games at 16 too (and the NPL seniors, when not called up)

[WOW2.0]

An overwhelming percentage of kids playing NPL or NL1 have no dreams or realistic goals of playing elite football as you call it.Most just love the environment and a lot have real connection to the clubs and communities they represent.The kids that want to go further have Jets and TSP to help them.This notion that every kid pulling on a boot every weekend thinks they are the next Messi is silly.The discussion has always been about how best to help those kids develop and provide good competition for them to reach whatever their potential is.JDL should provide better youth year on year,youth should provide better seniors year on year,the best of that lot will go on to play higher level.This discussion is trying to discuss the best way to makeall of those levels blend into each other to try and raise the overall quality of the program.That way if there is a Viduka or Goodwin amongst them they get to at least not be held up by the system.

Ahh...discovered the quote button :)

My comment isn't necessarily about the kids, we can all have different goals, etc...and that's more than fine.

My comment is specifically about the system, that holds potentially really talented kids back for realtively "meaningless" trophies, with ridiculous score lines

(Our other development issues are also cost related of course, it costs too much and a Messi or Ronaldo's parents would be too poor to afford to participate in our 'pay for play' system, compare to our competing sports here, where the talented pathway becomes cheaper as you progress, and the pathway is more understood and accessible...but that's another issue) :)

[jessepinkman]

Agree that youth isn’t about just those wanting to get to the top, but we have a handbrake on those kids that do which means they stand alongside those kids doing it for fun and friendship. Accelerate the best kids into the older ages pronto and we’ll make some headway.


This is true.

For relevancy, the 2 best players in the under 18s competition in NL1 last year were both bottom aged.

One is playing reserve grade right now and coming off the bench in firsts at Club A, even though he qualifies for 18s.

The other, at club B, is still playing 18s and scoring multiple goals a game. Without him, that 18s team doesn't finish top 2 etc, so I am guessing he is held back for this reason.

Which one do you think is having better development? (for reference, both should be in NPL and would be dominant there too)

[jessepinkman]

Thats a question for NNSW I think,they are the ones expanding NPL.I was just siding with the argument that 2 tiers with genuine promotion/relegation is better long term to tick all the boxes youth football is supposed to deliver.

It is better long term yes, but those bottom NPL sides who cant attract the top players in NL1 are actively holding back the NPL as a whole. There is more to a successful football club than what happens on the park.

[Spell Check]

This is true.

For relevancy, the 2 best players in the under 18s competition in NL1 last year were both bottom aged.

One is playing reserve grade right now and coming off the bench in firsts at Club A, even though he qualifies for 18s.

The other, at club B, is still playing 18s and scoring multiple goals a game. Without him, that 18s team doesn't finish top 2 etc, so I am guessing he is held back for this reason.

Which one do you think is having better development? (for reference, both should be in NPL and would be dominant there too)

Question is, why are these players still in NL1? The jump is big from the top NL1 to top four NPL youth teams. Can they really handle it? Have they tried? If not why not?

Olympic 16 squad this year lost a few to the Jets and others and brought in replacements from NL1. None seem quite there. Years playing in a NL1 environment is different from a NPL environment. NL1 you can have a laugh and mess. NPL top teams train hard and serious. Kids stepping up from NL1 should have something to prove but most come in having won everything so think they are already there. They get a shock.

[Barry Dawson]

That’s funny - even though Olympic lost 7 from last years 15’s (3 to jets, 2 to Magic and cut a couple) and filled up with NL1 players, they still are coming mid table? So is what you’re saying - that unless a NL1 player is able to step into a top 4 club - they are not worthy? Or that the youth NPL comp is shite beyond 3 or 4 clubs?

The first tier is only as strong as it’s second tier Enter decoupling youth competition.

Already hearing mass exodus of players from first division clubs that have seriously dropped the ball on youth - and club leaders are really concerned. Kids/parent don’t want little Johnny playing second tier.

What’s coming will be a game changer for some clubs.

[traffic light]

What’s coming will be a game changer for some clubs.

Good.
We need a new look and feel to youth football.
Clubs need a reality check on what they are trying to achieve. Keeping your club in NPL for chest beating is over.
Raising the bar on real development is required and if that means only 8 teams each in 2 tiers then we get what we deserve.
The numbers have decided that most dont really want that top elite challenge so they can enjoy themselves in tier 2 and below.

[Spell Check]

That’s funny - even though Olympic lost 7 from last years 15’s (3 to jets, 2 to Magic and cut a couple) and filled up with NL1 players, they still are coming mid table? So is what you’re saying - that unless a NL1 player is able to step into a top 4 club - they are not worthy? Or that the youth NPL comp is shite beyond 3 or 4 clubs?.

The fact Olympic won 15's at a canter, lost half the squad, brought in NL1 replacements and now sit mid-table having lost 3x more games than they did all last season having played only 8 games speaks for itself. If you watch the games you can see which boys have stepped out of NL1, not just on ability but attitude.

I am not saying NL1 are not worthy at all, but if they are stepping into a top 4 club - the top club in fact - they should be expected to mix it. On the evidence of Olympic this season, they can't mix it.

The NPL Youth comp is close to being shite beyond the top four clubs, and having New Lambton and others like them coming in isn't going to change that in my opinion. Decoupling will only see some of the mid/lower table clubs reordering. Nothing will change at the top.

BUT I really hope I am wrong. Youth needs a massive shake-up, from the comp to the TD and DOF's running it. Too many old school talking heads not seeing that change is needed. The whole scene needs fresh faces and fresh ideas.

[Spell Check]

Good.
We need a new look and feel to youth football.
Clubs need a reality check on what they are trying to achieve. Keeping your club in NPL for chest beating is over.
Raising the bar on real development is required and if that means only 8 teams each in 2 tiers then we get what we deserve.
The numbers have decided that most dont really want that top elite challenge so they can enjoy themselves in tier 2 and below.

100% right, every word

[sapdad]

The NPL Youth comp is close to being shite beyond the top four clubs, and having New Lambton and others like them coming in isn't going to change that in my opinion. Decoupling will only see some of the mid/lower table clubs reordering. Nothing will change at the top.


This is my opinion as well.I am not shitting on New Lambton I would just rather when they get promoted they are strong enough to replace a team like Edgeworth or Valentine rather than a team like Lakes or Cookers.And to do that they need to be way better than they are at the moment and i think they will get there by playing teams their level in a strong 2nd division like Adamstown/Lakes/Weston rather than being another club that chases shadows every week against Jaffas/Olympic and Magic.Personally I think thats a better long term approach for all of those clubs.

[BBscone]

This is my opinion as well.I am not shitting on New Lambton I would just rather when they get promoted they are strong enough to replace a team like Edgeworth or Valentine rather than a team like Lakes or Cookers.And to do that they need to be way better than they are at the moment and i think they will get there by playing teams their level in a strong 2nd division like Adamstown/Lakes/Weston rather than being another club that chases shadows every week against Jaffas/Olympic and Magic.Personally I think thats a better long term approach for all of those clubs. Isn't that what decoupling is all about? Same v same. The issue is that some of the low lying NPL Clubs are pushing back. Concerned that if they end up in a second tier the only carrot they have (NPL status), is gone and better run Clubs below and around them take over. Personally that's football. Strong and smart grow, weak and dumb die. Northern created an environment of mediocrity by stopping promotion and relegation and trying to enforce criteria that doesn't belong in a regional town. It will take a decade to fix if they are willing. Step One, fix youth, de couple two divisions of 8, if no Youth in all teams off to ZPL. Step 2 pro/rel.

[sapdad]

Isn't that what decoupling is all about? Same v same. The issue is that some of the low lying NPL Clubs are pushing back. Concerned that if they end up in a second tier the only carrot they have (NPL status), is gone and better run Clubs below and around them take over. Personally that's football. Strong and smart grow, weak and dumb die. Northern created an environment of mediocrity by stopping promotion and relegation and trying to enforce criteria that doesn't belong in a regional town. It will take a decade to fix if they are willing. Step One, fix youth, de couple two divisions of 8, if no Youth in all teams off to ZPL. Step 2 pro/rel.

Correct,we are agreeing with each other.When my eldest son was looking for a spot in 13s this year he trialed at both NL1 and NPL clubs.All i cared about was the coaching and the direction of the club.He found a good spot and is really happy.If he was ever in a team that went to a 2nd division i am sure that he and his teammates would all be united in trying to get back to playing in the top grade rather than splintering off just for the status of playing NPL.This season he has bumped into lots of mates across many teams and the overwhelming majority are really happy with their choices too.I would hope that any current NPL clubs who went down would do so with the understanding that there is a way back and not block what seems like a legitimate process for improving the overall quality of football in this region.

[Goatscheese]

Already hearing mass exodus of players from first division clubs that have seriously dropped the ball on youth - and club leaders are really concerned. Kids/parent don’t want little Johnny playing second tier.

What’s coming will be a game changer for some clubs.

Where are they going to go? There won't be a lot of spots to take all those players and some of them aren't even as good as the players in the top clubs (if they were the score lines would be closer).

[Spell Check]

Already hearing mass exodus of players from first division clubs that have seriously dropped the ball on youth - and club leaders are really concerned. Kids/parent don’t want little Johnny playing second tier.

What clubs are you talking about and what do you mean by "mass"? I haven't seen too many new kids turn up in my son's age over the past few weeks, nor the ages up or down. Where have these kids gone or are you saying these kids have just stopped playing?

[Barry Dawson]

My comment is related to next season. Have a look at the comp tables - it’s not hard to work work out where from. As BBScone said - if all NPL clubs had to lure players was the “NPL” badge - their days are numbered - when perhaps 5 clubs could find themselves playing second tier youth.

But where will they go? If they are in a relocated club and lesser team, they aren’t going to a top 4 club are they? The system and clubs have let these kids down.

Clubs who opted for first grade success as their measure of success - really need to take a long look in the mirror.

[sapdad]

My comment is related to next season. Have a look at the comp tables - it’s not hard to work work out where from. As BBScone said - if all NPL clubs had to lure players was the “NPL” badge - their days are numbered - when perhaps 5 clubs could find themselves playing second tier youth.

But where will they go? If they are in a relocated club and lesser team, they aren’t going to a top 4 club are they? The system and clubs have let these kids down.

Clubs who opted for first grade success as their measure of success - really need to take a long look in the mirror.

I think you are over estimating this.The kids that rate their chances of playing in the top grade will go and trial with the top 8 and if they are good enough they will get in.Or they will have already been approached its not as if the usual suspects arent already putting out feelers for next year.If not they will play down until they get a chance.The ones that give up were never going to see it through anyway so whats the big deal?They were just as much of a chance of giving up if they keep losing every week anyway.As for parents,any shame they feel of their kid having to play down will be softened by their kids winning more games than they already are,therefore giving them something to post on facebook each weekend.Majority of kids just want to do their best.Southy kids are proud to play for Southy,New Lambton kids the same.Im sure the likes of Adamstown/Lakes and Cooks Hill will survive and thrive wherever they play.

[Barry Dawson]

Perhaps - I hope you are right. However I am looking at this from a different angle. I am looking at the impact on a club not the kids, which then affects the kids.

You are correct on your thoughts about the individual players. What I am saying is, there will be significant impact on clubs of kids leaving a club because they donÂ’t want to play second tier - unless they deeply connected to the clubÂ’s culture and stay. This then affects a mid to lower level clubs ability to retain players and then build a strong first grade - unless they are simply happy to spend big every year for players developed by other clubs. I can see several of the existing clubs really struggle after decoupling occurs.

The feedback and concern from NPL club executives on just this matter suggests there is real concern.

[sapdad]

This then affects a mid to lower level clubs ability to retain players and then build a strong first grade - unless they are simply happy to spend big every year for players developed by other clubs. I can see several of the existing clubs really struggle after decoupling occurs.


Yes this is a great point,you are right i was only looking from a players perspective not the clubs.Only having 8 clubs in youth but 11 in seniors NPL will make a real fork in the road once kids want to make the jump from 16s and enter senior football.Its probably the single biggest issue that would prevent decoupling from happening.Unless they feel that kids that dont make Magic/Olympic/Jaffas 18's are happy to go to Lakes/Adamstown to fill their numbers.It would be a massive detriment to senior football not having a direct youth path.Again,a damned if you do damned if you dont situation.

[Aegon]

Perhaps - I hope you are right. However I am looking at this from a different angle. I am looking at the impact on a club not the kids, which then affects the kids.

You are correct on your thoughts about the individual players. What I am saying is, there will be significant impact on clubs of kids leaving a club because they donÂ’t want to play second tier - unless they deeply connected to the clubÂ’s culture and stay. This then affects a mid to lower level clubs ability to retain players and then build a strong first grade - unless they are simply happy to spend big every year for players developed by other clubs. I can see several of the existing clubs really struggle after decoupling occurs.

The feedback and concern from NPL club executives on just this matter suggests there is real concern.

How many club juniors are realistically being promoted through the ranks into a clubs first grade squad?

[Barry Dawson]

Does it matter? Why does a kid chose to go to any specific club?
Club success - generally of their first grade?
Who the coach will be?
What division will they play?
Etc.
Which of these in combination affect the choices people make?
What I know is - clubs have 3 streams of revenue - player regos, sponsors and fundraising.
Unless you are developing players, your are buying players. People will not pay huge youth regos to cover a first grader, there is only so much sponsorship $ to in a regional city that is a rugby League town etc.
Decoupling will change the way clubs think and approach youth football.

[The Hacker]

How many club juniors are realistically being promoted through the ranks into a clubs first grade squad?

Adamstown nearly all of them

[KITZ]

That’s funny - even though Olympic lost 7 from last years 15’s (3 to jets, 2 to Magic and cut a couple) and filled up with NL1 players, they still are coming mid table? So is what you’re saying - that unless a NL1 player is able to step into a top 4 club - they are not worthy? Or that the youth NPL comp is shite beyond 3 or 4 clubs?

The first tier is only as strong as it’s second tier Enter decoupling youth competition.

Already hearing mass exodus of players from first division clubs that have seriously dropped the ball on youth - and club leaders are really concerned. Kids/parent don’t want little Johnny playing second tier.

What’s coming will be a game changer for some clubs.

They might be mid table but Maitland played them last week without making a sub the whole game - until there was an injury in the last 10. It would have been a bloodbath if they had an actual full squad. Olympic consistently had to sub players off the park for trying to start fights. Had they played the same they would have lost at least 3-4 to red cards. They are mid table because they are trying to play rugby on a football field, not because they are skill equivalent and its evident that their on field behaviour is way off the pace as well.

[KITZ]

What clubs are you talking about and what do you mean by "mass"? I haven't seen too many new kids turn up in my son's age over the past few weeks, nor the ages up or down. Where have these kids gone or are you saying these kids have just stopped playing?

It was partial in our decision to move at the end of last season. Not the entire reason, but it was definitely one prong on the wheel.

[traffic light]

Adamstown nearly all of them

And thats an abortion. The Youth arent developing and 1st grade is last, again.

Keeping as much youth as possible is the key. Not keeping everyone because they are "our" boys.

They are why we need 8 teams.

[traffic light]

Perhaps - I hope you are right. However I am looking at this from a different angle. I am looking at the impact on a club not the kids, which then affects the kids.

You are correct on your thoughts about the individual players. What I am saying is, there will be significant impact on clubs of kids leaving a club because they donÂ’t want to play second tier - unless they deeply connected to the clubÂ’s culture and stay. This then affects a mid to lower level clubs ability to retain players and then build a strong first grade - unless they are simply happy to spend big every year for players developed by other clubs. I can see several of the existing clubs really struggle after decoupling occurs.

The feedback and concern from NPL club executives on just this matter suggests there is real concern.

The clubs are the problem Barry. Bad luck for them.

If they are so concerned about the kids and badge then they can develop their way with their boys in any tier. If they cry, they are NPL chest beaters.

[BS detecor]

I’m looking forward to it especially if it means more games and more competitive games. If you had a tipping comp in NPL youth atm you would rarely get one wrong

[sapdad]

Keeping as much youth as possible is the key. Not keeping everyone because they are "our" boys.


That is the age old question though isnt it?Just keep recycling the same old players in NPL,buy a comp or develop your own and suffer the fate of kids playing against men.Adamstown and Valo can probably point to their 18s teams doing well,Cooks Hill have done better since bringing more kids through,and Magic seem to have brought through a bunch of kids too.Does anyone know if they are Magic youth or from elsewhere?Theres no doubt that things need a shake up,but for every suggestion on here theres a pretty decent counter as to why it might not be that easy.

[BS detecor]

.Does anyone know if they are Magic youth or from elsewhere?.

There’s a bunch of magic youth who went off to academy’s and have now come back. There’s also been a mass exodus from the jets and quite a few clubs have benefited from that. One 17 year old scored 4 for cooks hill firsts last week

[jim wallis]

One 17 year old scored 4 for cooks hill firsts last week

Thats speaks more about our 1st grade comp than Youth in Sydney.

Its almost like saying it's time to earn a local $$ and forget about going any higher for footy.

[Spell Check]

Thats speaks more about our 1st grade comp than Youth in Sydney.

Its almost like saying it's time to earn a local $$ and forget about going any higher for footy.

Unfortunately this is true.

Some of those kids mentioned going to Magic from Academies had offers to stay but choose to move on. At some point it dawns on most kids and parents that chasing a pro dream in Australia is close to impossible. In Newy it’s many times harder than in the big cities too.

Look at Crowley at Maitland. Comes from the bush to join the jets, released, kills the local NPL, tries the Melbourne scene and is back again killing it here.

It’s a tough pathway. Just watch a video of club youth academies overseas to see the difference in standards. I just hope parents are being realistic with their kids because the fall can be hard.

[BS detecor]

Unfortunately this is true.

Some of those kids mentioned going to Magic from Academies had offers to stay but choose to move on. At some point it dawns on most kids and parents that chasing a pro dream in Australia is close to impossible. In Newy it’s many times harder than in the big cities too.

Look at Crowley at Maitland. Comes from the bush to join the jets, released, kills the local NPL, tries the Melbourne scene and is back again killing it here.

It’s a tough pathway. Just watch a video of club youth academies overseas to see the difference in standards. I just hope parents are being realistic with their kids because the fall can be hard.

They work it out fairly quickly once senior football starts. Just look at this forum. JDL page is full of wide eyed mums and dads full of hopes and dreams. NPL youth page starts to find the problems in the system and the conspiracies about why some kids are getting more opportunities than theirs and then by the NPL page, nobody cares anymore and the cycle continues

[Spell Check]

They work it out fairly quickly once senior football starts. Just look at this forum. JDL page is full of wide eyed mums and dads full of hopes and dreams. NPL youth page starts to find the problems in the system and the conspiracies about why some kids are getting more opportunities than theirs and then by the NPL page, nobody cares anymore and the cycle continues

With my name and the spelling of yours we shouldn’t agree, but you absolutely nailed it BS. Well said.

[interested local]

There is a draft proposal out there for the decoupling
Here are the key points
NNSWF have consulted widely through a decoupling working group
Failure of current NL1 clubs to field team in all age groups had undermined the competition
NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out.
Clubs that are in the NPL must have (not negotiable):
• Teams in all age groups
• An approved Youth Development Plan
• Head coaches with C
• Technical Director with C
• Budget submitted annually
• Fees submitted an approved by NNSWF
• Venue approved by NNSWF
• Level 2 sports trainer at all games
Under 18s move to youth day
From 2023 onwards:
-Pre season cup (clubs no longer required to arrange trial games)
-Revamped League season: a two part season where clubs can earn promotion / relegation once during the season. Each new level of the Premier Youth League will have a grand final
-Two knockout cups
-Summer series

1. Pre season Cup and Plate: seeding based on club championship
Cup – top 12 clubs from previous season
Plate – 13th to 24th from previous season
World cup style format
Played at home ground or, if unavailable, LMRFF (for a fee of course)
2. Premier Youth League
In 2023 the Premier Youth League will have 3 smaller leagues. All teams start 2023 in the same tier as they finish 2022 pending any clubs being promoted (hello New Lambton!) Each club will play each other once. Top 8 clubs in div 1 form League A, remainder of division 1 plus top 4 of division 2 form League B, bottom 8 teams of division 2 form League C. All points/goals etc reset. Clubs in each new League play each other once
At end of season, all clubs in League A plus the top 4 of League B will form Division 1 for the next season. The rest of League B and all League C form Division 2 for the next season.

[Aegon]

There is a draft proposal out there for the decoupling
Here are the key points
NNSWF have consulted widely through a decoupling working group
Failure of current NL1 clubs to field team in all age groups had undermined the competition
NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out.
Clubs that are in the NPL must have (not negotiable):
• Teams in all age groups
• An approved Youth Development Plan
• Head coaches with C
• Technical Director with C
• Budget submitted annually
• Fees submitted an approved by NNSWF
• Venue approved by NNSWF
• Level 2 sports trainer at all games
Under 18s move to youth day
From 2023 onwards:
-Pre season cup (clubs no longer required to arrange trial games)
-Revamped League season: a two part season where clubs can earn promotion / relegation once during the season. Each new level of the Premier Youth League will have a grand final
-Two knockout cups
-Summer series

1. Pre season Cup and Plate: seeding based on club championship
Cup – top 12 clubs from previous season
Plate – 13th to 24th from previous season
World cup style format
Played at home ground or, if unavailable, LMRFF (for a fee of course)
2. Premier Youth League
In 2023 the Premier Youth League will have 3 smaller leagues. All teams start 2023 in the same tier as they finish 2022 pending any clubs being promoted (hello New Lambton!) Each club will play each other once. Top 8 clubs in div 1 form League A, remainder of division 1 plus top 4 of division 2 form League B, bottom 8 teams of division 2 form League C. All points/goals etc reset. Clubs in each new League play each other once
At end of season, all clubs in League A plus the top 4 of League B will form Division 1 for the next season. The rest of League B and all League C form Division 2 for the next season.

Having seen the proposal, it looks good. Very fluid year to year.

A minimum of 1 and potentially 4 poor performing NPL clubs could find themselves in Youth Division 2 by 2024.
3 NL1 clubs will have the opportunity to get into Youth Division 1 by 2024.

My only concern is the number of games, the proposal might have been inaccurate but NPL clubs could go from 24 regular season games down to 19. NL1 will be approximately the same amount of games. But there is clear opportunity based on the structure to have a 25-26 game season for all youth teams.

However the reduced league games may be made up by the proposed Pre-season and In-season cups?

[Spell Check]

There is a draft proposal out there for the decoupling
Here are the key points
NNSWF have consulted widely through a decoupling working group
Failure of current NL1 clubs to field team in all age groups had undermined the competition
NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out.
Clubs that are in the NPL must have (not negotiable):
• Teams in all age groups
• An approved Youth Development Plan
• Head coaches with C
• Technical Director with C
• Budget submitted annually
• Fees submitted an approved by NNSWF
• Venue approved by NNSWF
• Level 2 sports trainer at all games
Under 18s move to youth day
From 2023 onwards:
-Pre season cup (clubs no longer required to arrange trial games)
-Revamped League season: a two part season where clubs can earn promotion / relegation once during the season. Each new level of the Premier Youth League will have a grand final
-Two knockout cups
-Summer series

1. Pre season Cup and Plate: seeding based on club championship
Cup – top 12 clubs from previous season
Plate – 13th to 24th from previous season
World cup style format
Played at home ground or, if unavailable, LMRFF (for a fee of course)
2. Premier Youth League
In 2023 the Premier Youth League will have 3 smaller leagues. All teams start 2023 in the same tier as they finish 2022 pending any clubs being promoted (hello New Lambton!) Each club will play each other once. Top 8 clubs in div 1 form League A, remainder of division 1 plus top 4 of division 2 form League B, bottom 8 teams of division 2 form League C. All points/goals etc reset. Clubs in each new League play each other once
At end of season, all clubs in League A plus the top 4 of League B will form Division 1 for the next season. The rest of League B and all League C form Division 2 for the next season.

If this is the official proposal, I genuinely can't fault it. It's well considered and seems to have real opportunity for youth development. I can't believe Northern came up with it!

I really like some of the non negotiable parts, like:
- budgets/fees submitted to Northern (this should hopefully address those questions of 1st grade payments)
- coaching requirements (I know this is an annoyance for many and it doesn't mean coaches are better than those without a ticket, but you've got to start somewhere. Would be nice to see some grants for coaches to get tickets for free/reduced fees)
- teams in all age groups (no brainer. Let's see if the one in/all in actually happens though. We've seen it all before)
- sports trainer at all games (about bloody time!)
- approved Youth Development Plan (yes! And Northern should be writing the template and holding clubs to following these. We need consistency in the minimum number of days clubs train, what they are coaching on. I know its a comp and everyone is out to win, but some philosophy behind it all would be awesome. We are trying make these kids better after all, so having one team play out and another just long ball does nobody any good)
- knockout cups and summer series (yes! yes! yes! The quicker clubs or old hands around town realise football isn't just a winter sport anymore the better)

Any club not backing this has an agenda. If it doesn't happen, name and shame those who held it back so parents can see which clubs to avoid taking their kids to.

[Spell Check]

Having seen the proposal, it looks good. Very fluid year to year.

A minimum of 1 and potentially 4 poor performing NPL clubs could find themselves in Youth Division 2 by 2024.
3 NL1 clubs will have the opportunity to get into Youth Division 1 by 2024.

My only concern is the number of games, the proposal might have been inaccurate but NPL clubs could go from 24 regular season games down to 19. NL1 will be approximately the same amount of games. But there is clear opportunity based on the structure to have a 25-26 game season for all youth teams.

However the reduced league games may be made up by the proposed Pre-season and In-season cups?

Agree Aegon. It's very good.

I have no issue with the potentially reduced games if the cups/summer/pre-season comps get the tick. Kids will get more out of knockout comps than an extra 5/6 games against mid-level opposition.

[sapdad]

Add me to the list of people who like this.Well done to whoever put it together and the quicker we get on with it the better.I wonder if this means that New Lambton youth wont be automatically promoted next season as it would make the top division 14 teams unless they plan on relegating 6 teams in year one and going forward with 12 from then on.Or are they contemplating relegating 1 club straight away at the end of this year?It would probably ruffle more feathers than they need to do right now.

[Barry Dawson]

It is a good model.

What it means for any club that is promoted into NPL for 2023 is that they would play the first round against other NPL clubs and then dependant upon those results, they would either stay in Pool A or fall into Pool B. Then based on the rest of season results, would either remain in Pool B for start of 2024 or go back into the top tier for start of 2024.

Puts the destiny of clubs in their own hands.

[JustMe]

Add me to the list of people who like this.Well done to whoever put it together and the quicker we get on with it the better.I wonder if this means that New Lambton youth wont be automatically promoted next season as it would make the top division 14 teams unless they plan on relegating 6 teams in year one and going forward with 12 from then on.Or are they contemplating relegating 1 club straight away at the end of this year?It would probably ruffle more feathers than they need to do right now.

This is very close to the NSW NPL in Sydney. If they can agree on it then it must be a decent model.

Love the mid year pro/rel. Rewards teams that improve in the off season.

Just hurry up and rubber stamp it and stop wasting time and $$$

[Hunter403]

I like it a lot.

However.....I have been told that having the five youth teams (13,14,15,18,18) is compulsory to be an NPL club but not a NL1 club. Given the reluctance for NNSWF to bring in promotion/relegation between those two divisions and the barriers applied for NPL admission (finance, grounds etc), how many NL1 will get themselves involved? Several can't raise teams now. How will this magically change that situation? Will NL1 clubs embrace the challenge or will they just not bother? How will kids be encouraged to move up from community league to fill the teams? Will fees be regulated (or should they be)?

I think there are some NL1 clubs that will walk away from this as they either have no NPL ambition or the hoops for it are just to high and numerous. Simpler for clubs to look after community teams than "premier" teams and far cheaper for parents.

[Eastwest]

I like it a lot.

However.....I have been told that having the five youth teams (13,14,15,18,18) is compulsory to be an NPL club but not a NL1 club. Given the reluctance for NNSWF to bring in promotion/relegation between those two divisions and the barriers applied for NPL admission (finance, grounds etc), how many NL1 will get themselves involved? Several can't raise teams now. How will this magically change that situation? Will NL1 clubs embrace the challenge or will they just not bother? How will kids be encouraged to move up from community league to fill the teams? Will fees be regulated (or should they be)?

I think there are some NL1 clubs that will walk away from this as they either have no NPL ambition or the hoops for it are just to high and numerous. Simpler for clubs to look after community teams than "premier" teams and far cheaper for parents.

NL1 currently have their 18s with seniors. They can slot in.

If they cant or wont then they dont go up. Clubs have to be accountable at some point

Fees should be regulated and or subsidized by SA. We already have a few places that money is being spent where it is most undeserved.

[Spell Check]

I think there are some NL1 clubs that will walk away from this as they either have no NPL ambition or the hoops for it are just to high and numerous. Simpler for clubs to look after community teams than "premier" teams and far cheaper for parents.

I suspect you are right Hunter. But would a few clubs walking away and kids going back to community be such a bad thing? The fewer clubs, the higher the standard of players playing you would think. Yes it might mean a few less games over the course of the season. Or might mean a comp where teams play each other 3x instead of twice? Either way, Northern cannot let losing a few clubs stop this. It will make youth better, it will make community better, and it should make seniors better in the long run too.

Let's hope it gets a guernsey.

[BBscone]

I suspect you are right Hunter. But would a few clubs walking away and kids going back to community be such a bad thing? The fewer clubs, the higher the standard of players playing you would think. Yes it might mean a few less games over the course of the season. Or might mean a comp where teams play each other 3x instead of twice? Either way, Northern cannot let losing a few clubs stop this. It will make youth better, it will make community better, and it should make seniors better in the long run too.

Let's hope it gets a guernsey.Reading between the lines I think this is what they expect to happen. Weak fold. Strong thrive. Short or Long term. It won't matter. At least it's something. Thank F#&*. Next step. Fix NPLW, it is a basket case. And put the heat on Men's programs using the youth as the catalyst to pro/rel. Then Northern might scrape by with a pass mark.

[sapdad]

I wonder what the reasoning is behind 18's being part of youth?Does that mean they will be playing on the same day?Seems strange to be making matchdays 5 games for youth and 2 for Seniors.

[terry]

I think there are some NL1 clubs that will walk away from this as they either have no NPL ambition or the hoops for it are just to high and numerous. Simpler for clubs to look after community teams than "premier" teams and far cheaper for parents.

This is what we really need. Kids to go where they are happy. Parents free to choose. We've had clubs clinging to grades for too long. It's time to cut and let coaches, players, families and clubs find out where they really fit.

Allowing for up 24 clubs is stupidity. We barely have 16. Any 3rd tier is good community.

To really be competitive at the level. We really only have 8 for NPL and & 8 for NPL1 if we're lucky. Even at 16 we are scraping.
The rest are there because they have to be talked into it or theyre there to fill an empty spot.

It's be so clear for so long.

I loved it when Rosebuds youth were in NPL1 Sydney in the 80s. Those Youth were as good if not tougher and better than today. Thats not because of talent either. We've always had it in abundance here.

[KITZ]

There is a draft proposal out there for the decoupling
Here are the key points
NNSWF have consulted widely through a decoupling working group
Failure of current NL1 clubs to field team in all age groups had undermined the competition
NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out.
Clubs that are in the NPL must have (not negotiable):
• Teams in all age groups
• An approved Youth Development Plan
• Head coaches with C
• Technical Director with C
• Budget submitted annually
• Fees submitted an approved by NNSWF
• Venue approved by NNSWF
• Level 2 sports trainer at all games
Under 18s move to youth day
From 2023 onwards:
-Pre season cup (clubs no longer required to arrange trial games)
-Revamped League season: a two part season where clubs can earn promotion / relegation once during the season. Each new level of the Premier Youth League will have a grand final
-Two knockout cups
-Summer series

1. Pre season Cup and Plate: seeding based on club championship
Cup – top 12 clubs from previous season
Plate – 13th to 24th from previous season
World cup style format
Played at home ground or, if unavailable, LMRFF (for a fee of course)
2. Premier Youth League
In 2023 the Premier Youth League will have 3 smaller leagues. All teams start 2023 in the same tier as they finish 2022 pending any clubs being promoted (hello New Lambton!) Each club will play each other once. Top 8 clubs in div 1 form League A, remainder of division 1 plus top 4 of division 2 form League B, bottom 8 teams of division 2 form League C. All points/goals etc reset. Clubs in each new League play each other once
At end of season, all clubs in League A plus the top 4 of League B will form Division 1 for the next season. The rest of League B and all League C form Division 2 for the next season.

Not sure the 18's will be happy. Quite a few play 18's and reserves, will they still be considered part of the senior squad? - its also a VERY long day for volunteers starting at 7-8am turn up for 13's and 16s don't finish till 4, that means a 6pm - 7pm finish on that day? Wonder how thought through that was. I mean its nice to be able to push 16s up to 18s without the game day conflicts (as currently 18s often play at the same time and day as the 16s), but I'm not sure if its easily resolved.

Wonder how semi's will work 8 teams and 4 make the semis, sounds like the Aleague?

NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out. - This will have interesting implications, cooks couldn't field a 16s this year and it was their first year in. Does this mean northern are going to stop allowing clubs to participate even when not fielding a team is beyond their control? I mean you can't have half your squad playing an age up every week just to meet the requirements, injuries will soon mean you don't have enough for 2 age groups. Then what, you have 13-15s all of a sudden with nowhere to play for an entire year because by the time they have lodged their squads every other club is full? What about the flow on effects to the JDL, who all of a sudden also have nowhere to go the next season?

[Barry Dawson]

18’s will stay with seniors. That was sorted after final consultation with clubs

[terry]

Wonder how semi's will work 8 teams and 4 make the semis, sounds like the Aleague?

NNSW intends to require all clubs that wish to complete in the Premier Youth League field teams in all age groups. One in, all in. One out, all out. - This will have interesting implications, cooks couldn't field a 16s this year and it was their first year in. Does this mean northern are going to stop allowing clubs to participate even when not fielding a team is beyond their control? I mean you can't have half your squad playing an age up every week just to meet the requirements, injuries will soon mean you don't have enough for 2 age groups. Then what, you have 13-15s all of a sudden with nowhere to play for an entire year because by the time they have lodged their squads every other club is full? What about the flow on effects to the JDL, who all of a sudden also have nowhere to go the next season?

fair point about 18s needing to playup with seniors.

Yep. if you cant field a grade fk off and rightly so.

ffs they are NPL clubs, they need to do their job. With 8 teams in NPL they fill all squads piece of p*ss. Stop with this 12 team diarrhea. If they try this it has already failed. bookmark this quote.

The clubs need to grow up and follow the rules and give the league some credibility.

And parents need to make clear decisions about where they want their kids to play to help the clubs achieve this.

[sapdad]

How many clubs are realistically struggling to fill grades in NPL/Nl1? I know about Cookers 16's, are there more? Will NNSW actually struggle to fill 24 youth teams across 2 divisions?

[terry]

How many clubs are realistically struggling to fill grades in NPL/Nl1? I know about Cookers 16's, are there more? Will NNSW actually struggle to fill 24 youth teams across 2 divisions?

yep its worse than you think. Sounds like we need some hard truths to surface.

Are you assuming Rosebuds, Weston, Cooks hill, Lake Mac are filling NPL with Youth? I wish those clubs were better. But they arent and they'd be lucky to press NL1teams/community teams. Get those 15s to have a trial v Bolwarra 15s.

So out of 12 teams the top 8 are realistically competitive. By the time we drop 4 hopefully those 8 would bolster all of their age groups to be competitive 1st to last. This sadly includes North C and Mid C.

Next NL1 - 16s missing 3 teams, 15s 1, 14s 2, 13s 2. Thats 8 teams out of the needed 40 (not inc NIAS) what a ****fest.

We have crap all chance of having 24 quality teams 13-16s. Even at 20 clubs NL1 will still have the usual 15-0 results which is what we are trying to avoid.

Need 8 in NPL, 8 in NPL1 and if we need to have some other clubs feel important which is what started this rubbish, have a development 3rd tier.
Otherwise we are just polishing the turd with new names.

[WOW2.0]

...
We have crap all chance of having 24 quality teams 13-16s. Even at 20 clubs NL1 will still have the usual 15-0 results which is what we are trying to avoid.


Probably no league has 20 quality teams though, not even the Premier League...there will always be a gap

In an 8 team league though, how often would they play each other? We already pay far fewer games then Sydney or Melbourne

[terry]

Probably no league has 20 quality teams though, not even the Premier League...there will always be a gap

In an 8 team league though, how often would they play each other? We already pay far fewer games then Sydney or Melbourne

Fair point and its not great but we have to wear that for the greater good.

No use playing 11 different teams when 6 of them are 8-0. Have to get over not playing many other colours to play against.

We only deserve 8 teams at this point. 3 rounds. Have a pro/rel after the first round. changes up 1 team.

We have cups where teams can play others. How about designing a gala round with some NPL3 or Association Youth league Sydney teams.

If we get creative and put the do-ers in the Northern chairs we could kill it.

[Captain_Carl]

Fair point and its not great but we have to wear that for the greater good.

No use playing 11 different teams when 6 of them are 8-0. Have to get over not playing many other colours to play against.

We only deserve 8 teams at this point. 3 rounds. Have a pro/rel after the first round. changes up 1 team.

We have cups where teams can play others. How about designing a gala round with some NPL3 or Association Youth league Sydney teams.

If we get creative and put the do-ers in the Northern chairs we could kill it.


In an 8 team comp there should be 4 rounds. 2 home and 2 away games against each team to make a total of 28 games. This is aligned to Football Australia’s XI Principles, one of which being that we need to be playing more games to stay in touch with the rest of our region.

[sapdad]

In an 8 team comp there should be 4 rounds. 2 home and 2 away games against each team to make a total of 28 games. This is aligned to Football Australia’s XI Principles, one of which being that we need to be playing more games to stay in touch with the rest of our region.

In the proposed format it will only be an 8 team comp half of the year.So it would be 11 games in phase 1 and 7 in phase 2. With pre-season and mid season comps (and semis for half the teams) it will fill out the games from minimum of 18 to around 26.Another issue surrounding this is fixtures and washouts.Surely we wont see another year like this but we are halfway through the youth season and some teams have only played 8/12 games while others 11.If those missed games are the difference between staying up or dropping down NNSW better be very organised to get replays done straight away.The other problem will be turning a draw around for the 2nd half of the season on short notice too.With teams in Tamworth,Coffs and Taree as much notice as possible needs to be given to clubs to schedule grounds for the entire 2nd half of the year depending on which division you are in.Im a big fan of the new format lets hope these sort of issues dont derail what is a really good idea.

[Spell Check]

How good are Mid Coast going in Youth this season? Big credit to Larry Budgen and the guys up there for the players they are producing. Every year they lose good players to clubs down here but they keep on developing good players. I know a lot of female players are involved in the boys youth teams too, which is rare in Newy.

Kudos.

[KITZ]

In the proposed format it will only be an 8 team comp half of the year.So it would be 11 games in phase 1 and 7 in phase 2. With pre-season and mid season comps (and semis for half the teams) it will fill out the games from minimum of 18 to around 26.Another issue surrounding this is fixtures and washouts.Surely we wont see another year like this but we are halfway through the youth season and some teams have only played 8/12 games while others 11.If those missed games are the difference between staying up or dropping down NNSW better be very organised to get replays done straight away.The other problem will be turning a draw around for the 2nd half of the season on short notice too.With teams in Tamworth,Coffs and Taree as much notice as possible needs to be given to clubs to schedule grounds for the entire 2nd half of the year depending on which division you are in.Im a big fan of the new format lets hope these sort of issues dont derail what is a really good idea.

I think they might not start with a mid season drop. Split the comp
First run it for a year, work out what works as it is then change things. Too many changes at once and it will likely be too cmplex or fall apart. Why would the number of teams in each comp change? If someone went up wouldn’t someone else be going down? It really needs to stay as simple to work out as possible.

[JustMe]

Why would the number of teams in each comp change?

This is a joke? right? This attitude is the same thats holding the whole comp back. Too scared to make the needed changes.

[Bremsstrahlung]

I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
What happens when we get to February/March and clubs say we don’t have a 15s team.
Do they forfeit their spot in the competition as per the rules??
I guess their other 4 teams just assimilate into other already filled teams or miss out?
So then current clubs have to contend with a “bye”?
Are community clubs eligible to enter from the lowest tier? Eg could Warners Bay who assumably could meet criteria given they play WNPL enter teams?

It’s an interesting idea whether you punish the other clubs by introducing a bye into every age group, or just one.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for clubs being committed and fulfilling their responsibility to submit teams, just devils advocate thinking of what effect it has on the comp they are trying to say is the peak.
Guess you need that blanket “all or nothing” as you quickly descend into having gaps across all grade if you let one club away with it.

[Hunter403]

I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
What happens when we get to February/March and clubs say we don’t have a 15s team.
Do they forfeit their spot in the competition as per the rules??
I guess their other 4 teams just assimilate into other already filled teams or miss out?
So then current clubs have to contend with a “bye”?
Are community clubs eligible to enter from the lowest tier? Eg could Warners Bay who assumably could meet criteria given they play WNPL enter teams?

It’s an interesting idea whether you punish the other clubs by introducing a bye into every age group, or just one.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for clubs being committed and fulfilling their responsibility to submit teams, just devils advocate thinking of what effect it has on the comp they are trying to say is the peak.
Guess you need that blanket “all or nothing” as you quickly descend into having gaps across all grade if you let one club away with it.

NL1 already has a rule that says that if you can't field all youth teams then you are out of the NL1 and we have all seen how NNSWF enforce that rule....

[Hunter403]

Would NNSWF stepping in and "regulating" fees help solve the problem? Would say a maximum cost of say $350 make NPL/NL1 youth more attractive with clubs told to makeup any shortfall in funding by means other that billing the parents, eg canteen, sponsorship, raffles etc?
Narrow the price gap between "premier" and "community" football.

Discuss...

[sapdad]

Why would the number of teams in each comp change? If someone went up wouldn’t someone else be going down?.

Sorry I read it as we start with 2 x 12 groups then split to 3 x 8 halfway through, then start the following season with 2 x 12 again.Is that how it works?Thats why I said round 1 would be 11 games and round 2 would be 7.

[JustMe]

I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
What happens when we get to February/March and clubs say we don’t have a 15s team.

Not having a go at Brem for this. More in general.

Thats an under statement. If we researched we can see we certainly dont have enough quality.

Does anyone read previous posts? or do we just read our mates responses...
Showed how many teams are missing above.

Even 16 teams is a struggle, thats why 8x8 and maybe a chest beaters 3rd 8 would work.

[JustMe]

Would NNSWF stepping in and "regulating" fees help solve the problem? .

I think this may help get more than the 16 clubs we currently deserve. remember theres around 60 players per club for the 4 ages.

At 16 clubs thats 960 kids all coming from this league loving country town that are supposed to be elite to pretty good. Lets not forget technology takes most kids indoors fulltime.

Maybe if we could get funding from top down like nrl afl. We could get some more in at this level.

[Hunter403]

Sorry I read it as we start with 2 x 12 groups then split to 3 x 8 halfway through, then start the following season with 2 x 12 again.Is that how it works?

That is how it works

[Aegon]

Sorry I read it as we start with 2 x 12 groups then split to 3 x 8 halfway through, then start the following season with 2 x 12 again.Is that how it works?Thats why I said round 1 would be 11 games and round 2 would be 7.

The original proposal was as per the below - although it may have changed since:

[SIZE=4]
2023
Mid 2023
2024
Mid 2024


Youth Division 1
Youth League A
Youth Division 1
Youth League A


NPL club 1
Division 1 1st
League A 1st
Division 1 1st


NPL club 2
Division 1 2nd
League A 2nd
Division 1 2nd


NPL club 3
Division 1 3rd
League A 3rd
Division 1 3rd


NPL club 4
Division 1 4th
League A 4th
Division 1 4th


NPL club 5
Division 1 5th
League A 5th
Division 1 5th


NPL club 6
Division 1 6th
League A 6th
Division 1 6th


NPL club 7
Division 1 7th
League A 7th
Division 1 7th


NPL club 8
Division 1 8th
League A 8th
Division 1 8th


NPL club 9
Youth League B
League B 1st
Youth League B


NPL club 10
Division 1 9th
League B 2nd
Division 1 9th


NPL club 11
Division 1 10th
League B 3rd
Division 1 10th


NPL club 12
Division 1 11th
League B 4th
Division 1 11th


NPL club 13
Division 1 12th
Youth Division 2
Division 1 12th


Youth Division 2
Division 1 13th
League B 5th
Division 2 1st


NL club 1
Division 2 1st
League B 6th
Division 2 2nd


NL club 2
Division 2 2nd
League B 7th
Division 2 3rd


NL club 3
Division 2 3rd
League B 8th
Division 2 4th


NL club 4
Youth League C
League C 1st
Youth League C


NL club 5
Division 2 4th
League C 2nd
Division 2 5th


NL club 6
Division 2 5th
League C 3rd
Division 2 6th


NL club 7
Division 2 6th
League C 4th
[Division 2 7th


NL club 8
Division 2 7th
League C 5th
Division 2 8th


NL club 9
Division 2 8th
League C 6th
Division 2 9th


NL club 10
Division 2 9th
League C 7th
Division 2 10th


NL club 11
Division 2 10th
League C 8th
Division 2 11th



Division 2 11th

Division 2 12th



So on and so forth

[Spell Check]

The original proposal was as per the below - although it may have changed since:

[SIZE=4]
2023
Mid 2023
2024
Mid 2024


Youth Division 1
Youth League A
Youth Division 1
Youth League A


NPL club 1
Division 1 1st
League A 1st
Division 1 1st


NPL club 2
Division 1 2nd
League A 2nd
Division 1 2nd


NPL club 3
Division 1 3rd
League A 3rd
Division 1 3rd


NPL club 4
Division 1 4th
League A 4th
Division 1 4th


NPL club 5
Division 1 5th
League A 5th
Division 1 5th


NPL club 6
Division 1 6th
League A 6th
Division 1 6th


NPL club 7
Division 1 7th
League A 7th
Division 1 7th


NPL club 8
Division 1 8th
League A 8th
Division 1 8th


NPL club 9
Youth League B
League B 1st
Youth League B


NPL club 10
Division 1 9th
League B 2nd
Division 1 9th


NPL club 11
Division 1 10th
League B 3rd
Division 1 10th


NPL club 12
Division 1 11th
League B 4th
Division 1 11th


NPL club 13
Division 1 12th
Youth Division 2
Division 1 12th


Youth Division 2
Division 1 13th
League B 5th
Division 2 1st


NL club 1
Division 2 1st
League B 6th
Division 2 2nd


NL club 2
Division 2 2nd
League B 7th
Division 2 3rd


NL club 3
Division 2 3rd
League B 8th
Division 2 4th


NL club 4
Youth League C
League C 1st
Youth League C


NL club 5
Division 2 4th
League C 2nd
Division 2 5th


NL club 6
Division 2 5th
League C 3rd
Division 2 6th


NL club 7
Division 2 6th
League C 4th
[Division 2 7th


NL club 8
Division 2 7th
League C 5th
Division 2 8th


NL club 9
Division 2 8th
League C 6th
Division 2 9th


NL club 10
Division 2 9th
League C 7th
Division 2 10th


NL club 11
Division 2 10th
League C 8th
Division 2 11th



Division 2 11th

Division 2 12th



So on and so forth

So the mid-season split happens every year? I took the split to be only in Year 1 to form the two leagues for 2024 and then Northern would introduce promotion/relegation between div 1 and div 2.

Are the positions are based on club championship points? Can't imagine we could have a different line up of teams across 13's - 16's. Ground allocation would be a nightmare.

[Spell Check]

I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
What happens when we get to February/March and clubs say we don’t have a 15s team.
Do they forfeit their spot in the competition as per the rules??
I guess their other 4 teams just assimilate into other already filled teams or miss out?
So then current clubs have to contend with a “bye”?
Are community clubs eligible to enter from the lowest tier? Eg could Warners Bay who assumably could meet criteria given they play WNPL enter teams?

It’s an interesting idea whether you punish the other clubs by introducing a bye into every age group, or just one.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for clubs being committed and fulfilling their responsibility to submit teams, just devils advocate thinking of what effect it has on the comp they are trying to say is the peak.
Guess you need that blanket “all or nothing” as you quickly descend into having gaps across all grade if you let one club away with it.

It has to be one out, all out. We'll lose plenty of players by natural selection and youth and community football will benefit no end.

[Spell Check]

Would NNSWF stepping in and "regulating" fees help solve the problem? Would say a maximum cost of say $350 make NPL/NL1 youth more attractive with clubs told to makeup any shortfall in funding by means other that billing the parents, eg canteen, sponsorship, raffles etc?
Narrow the price gap between "premier" and "community" football.

Discuss...

I know this is devil's advocate talk but you are kidding Hunter. Clubs are not doing youth for anything less than 4 x $350 a season. Clubs have become lazy and fundraising for their programs is a thing of the past. Why would they when parents are so willing to pay the price asked?

[Aegon]

So the mid-season split happens every year? I took the split to be only in Year 1 to form the two leagues for 2024 and then Northern would introduce promotion/relegation between div 1 and div 2.

The proposal said for 2024 all teams play each other (within their division) once before progressing to the league stage.
I took the above to mean it was going to be an ongoing mid year split.


Are the positions are based on club championship points? Can't imagine we could have a different line up of teams across 13's - 16's. Ground allocation would be a nightmare.

My understanding is that it is club championship based. At the proposal stage it was including 18's but I think that may have been changed.

[sapdad]

I’m not overly convinced we will have enough for 24 teams in each age.
This is always the tricky part.We need to have enough spots that every kid from 9-12 who shows promise gets an opportunity.By opening up spots all the way to a 24th team,it means that the kids at the very top of NPL(1) get constant high level games,and teams below get to build either individually or as a team and get rewarded with taking their teams up or individual kids get picked up in higher level teams.Im still not convinced that we are doing a great job capturing every promising junior playing community at clubs like Mayfield,Cardiff and teams up the Valley to name a few.If i was running a club struggling for numbers id have close relationships with any surrounding community clubs and invite their best kids into the NPL level program if they want.If its done up front and theres something in it for the community club it might be a good relaitonship that benefits everyone.Not sure who was involved with Suburbs on here but they make a great point about losing their best community kids to JDL whilst not being able to run it themselves.There has to be a way for kids to get a chance and filling these 24 teams whilst at the same time not killing community clubs who do so much great work.

[jessepinkman]

This is always the tricky part.We need to have enough spots that every kid from 9-12 who shows promise gets an opportunity.By opening up spots all the way to a 24th team,it means that the kids at the very top of NPL(1) get constant high level games,and teams below get to build either individually or as a team and get rewarded with taking their teams up or individual kids get picked up in higher level teams.Im still not convinced that we are doing a great job capturing every promising junior playing community at clubs like Mayfield,Cardiff and teams up the Valley to name a few.If i was running a club struggling for numbers id have close relationships with any surrounding community clubs and invite their best kids into the NPL level program if they want.If its done up front and theres something in it for the community club it might be a good relaitonship that benefits everyone.Not sure who was involved with Suburbs on here but they make a great point about losing their best community kids to JDL whilst not being able to run it themselves.There has to be a way for kids to get a chance and filling these 24 teams whilst at the same time not killing community clubs who do so much great work.


First ask yourself - whats in it for the FA and Member Federations to care if a community club collapses?

Then ask yourself - what's in it for the FA and Member Federations if big clubs with drawcard names can have multiple JDL/SAP teams?

Then you have your answer as to why nothing is done to help community clubs.

The money flows up in football in Australia. Community clubs are locked out of the tier above them, premier clubs are locked out of the tier above them. Semi-pro clubs are locked out of the professional tier.

Rego funds a lot of that. You pay a lot less rego at community level.

[Eastwest]

Anyone against change has a point. Ask yourself, why do we need a strong NPL. Who are we going to compare ourselves against year in year out?
Just need to be good enough for a long ball trophy win in Newy at any level.

we have Jets/Mariners for those striving to go highest but that needs a fix as well.
btw the proposal sounds ok. At least we are having a go at something different.

[sapdad]

First ask yourself - whats in it for the FA and Member Federations to care if a community club collapses?

Then ask yourself - what's in it for the FA and Member Federations if big clubs with drawcard names can have multiple JDL/SAP teams?

Then you have your answer as to why nothing is done to help community clubs.

The money flows up in football in Australia. Community clubs are locked out of the tier above them, premier clubs are locked out of the tier above them. Semi-pro clubs are locked out of the professional tier.

Rego funds a lot of that. You pay a lot less rego at community level.

Thankfully I havent been around long enough to have the slightest clue what youre talking about.If this is where junior football ends up then god help us all.I was just trying to suggest a way to get the best couple of kids in each community club an opportunity if they want it.All good though.

[jessepinkman]

Thankfully I havent been around long enough to have the slightest clue what youre talking about.If this is where junior football ends up then god help us all.I was just trying to suggest a way to get the best couple of kids in each community club an opportunity if they want it.All good though.


No, I totally understand what you were asking - my point wasn't against yours or anything, more that the member feds/FA will never be in favour of a model that helps the community clubs if a player leaves for JDL etc. Theyl just market JDL as something its not so that parents will pay for it and kids think they're little pros for playing in it.

I was responding to your point on community clubs - the current system doesn't benefit them, but they work so hard for what they have. Its the same theme the further up you go, its a clear pattern in football in Oz that those on the bottom do the heavy lifting.

[jessepinkman]

Anyone against change has a point. Ask yourself, why do we need a strong NPL. Who are we going to compare ourselves against year in year out?
Just need to be good enough for a long ball trophy win in Newy at any level.

we have Jets/Mariners for those striving to go highest but that needs a fix as well.
btw the proposal sounds ok. At least we are having a go at something different.


Yes which is why opening up the pyramid would only result in better outcomes for every level of said pyramid.

[Hunter403]

I know this is devil's advocate talk but you are kidding Hunter. Clubs are not doing youth for anything less than 4 x $350 a season. Clubs have become lazy and fundraising for their programs is a thing of the past. Why would they when parents are so willing to pay the price asked?

Stirring the pot......But you do have to wonder if a NL1 kids gets between 4 and 6 times the experience that the community kid gets.

[Bremsstrahlung]

This is always the tricky part.We need to have enough spots that every kid from 9-12 who shows promise gets an opportunity.By opening up spots all the way to a 24th team,it means that the kids at the very top of NPL(1) get constant high level games,and teams below get to build either individually or as a team and get rewarded with taking their teams up or individual kids get picked up in higher level teams.Im still not convinced that we are doing a great job capturing every promising junior playing community at clubs like Mayfield,Cardiff and teams up the Valley to name a few.If i was running a club struggling for numbers id have close relationships with any surrounding community clubs and invite their best kids into the NPL level program if they want.If its done up front and theres something in it for the community club it might be a good relaitonship that benefits everyone.Not sure who was involved with Suburbs on here but they make a great point about losing their best community kids to JDL whilst not being able to run it themselves.There has to be a way for kids to get a chance and filling these 24 teams whilst at the same time not killing community clubs who do so much great work.



Growing up, my parents didn’t know a thing about the state league or SYL and largely stayed outside of any ongoing politics with selections.
Cousin in law was a Breaker/United player that was playing for Edgeworth.
My parents assumed that he was playing All Age A grade for edgeworth.

In juniors, invitations from coach to attend Macquarie academy days. But turned up and 10-15 kids already had their shorts and socks on doing their own mini games. The rest of us just played games for the “scouts”.

Moved clubs to play 12G grade because I was new to the club and didn’t fit into the top Grade team. Stuck around for 2 years, the president of the club moved me up into some seniors ID games (zone league). At the end of the season asked me to play IDs next season, then called back and asked if I’d heard of NBN state league and if I’d be interested in trialling at any of the clubs, namely 2-3 clubs nearby.
Trialled and made it into their youth team and enjoyed many more years working way through grades.


The point…. My parents had no idea. I had no idea. My teammates had no idea. Without the club president taking a bit of an interest in me, would’ve probably played IDs and not experienced state league. Now, let’s be honest, I was never making it out of state league, I knew that, I just wanted to play the best level I could.
There’s plenty of players whose parents aren’t on the forum here, or know the inside out of the competitions. There’s plenty of untapped potential.
I’d hazard a guess and say, no NPL club scouts community games. They rely on people that are in the know and recognise these programs exist.

This could be a massive advantage to some NL1 clubs.
I used the example earlier of Warners bay. Are they entitled to enter teams into NPL youth comps if they meet criteria?
If so, this could be a bit of a game changer and allow clubs with large junior bases an opportunity.

That was the first I’d heard of state league.

[Spell Check]

Stirring the pot......But you do have to wonder if a NL1 kids gets between 4 and 6 times the experience that the community kid gets.

I do think NL1 gets a much higher football experience than community. Maybe not 4-6 x the money worth but there are good clubs in NL1. Southy, New Lambton are working really hard to produce good kids. The others too I’d guess but I don’t know much about the others.

With JDL coming in, community development drops off rapidly after U8 as the better kids move on. But that’s okay. Football is for everyone and it can’t all be about chest beating.

[Spell Check]

Growing up, my parents didn’t know a thing about the state league or SYL and largely stayed outside of any ongoing politics with selections.
Cousin in law was a Breaker/United player that was playing for Edgeworth.
My parents assumed that he was playing All Age A grade for edgeworth.

In juniors, invitations from coach to attend Macquarie academy days. But turned up and 10-15 kids already had their shorts and socks on doing their own mini games. The rest of us just played games for the “scouts”.

Moved clubs to play 12G grade because I was new to the club and didn’t fit into the top Grade team. Stuck around for 2 years, the president of the club moved me up into some seniors ID games (zone league). At the end of the season asked me to play IDs next season, then called back and asked if I’d heard of NBN state league and if I’d be interested in trialling at any of the clubs, namely 2-3 clubs nearby.
Trialled and made it into their youth team and enjoyed many more years working way through grades.


The point…. My parents had no idea. I had no idea. My teammates had no idea. Without the club president taking a bit of an interest in me, would’ve probably played IDs and not experienced state league. Now, let’s be honest, I was never making it out of state league, I knew that, I just wanted to play the best level I could.
There’s plenty of players whose parents aren’t on the forum here, or know the inside out of the competitions. There’s plenty of untapped potential.
I’d hazard a guess and say, no NPL club scouts community games. They rely on people that are in the know and recognise these programs exist.

This could be a massive advantage to some NL1 clubs.
I used the example earlier of Warners bay. Are they entitled to enter teams into NPL youth comps if they meet criteria?
If so, this could be a bit of a game changer and allow clubs with large junior bases an opportunity.

That was the first I’d heard of state league.

This isn’t uncommon. JDL, youth is an expensive, exclusive club that not many know about. It’s the opposite of what football is supposed to be but it’s all we have for development so we have to make the best of it.

[Aegon]

There’s plenty of players whose parents aren’t on the forum here, or know the inside out of the competitions. There’s plenty of untapped potential.

I would say this is much less so than in the past.
Consider that JDL takes approximately 300 kids just in under 12's.
ID 12's has 10 divisions of 8 teams with 14 (guess) players per team.
1000-1100 players rounded down as some divisions have less than 8 teams and some teams would have less than 14 players.
So about 27-28% of players in their age group are playing JDL already.
When Zone SAP existed it was closer to 4-5% were not playing miniroos/ID's.
Several clubs I know of have taken absolute standout players from miniroos/ID's who even after only missing 1, 2 or 3 season of JDL are significantly behind the other players.

I know of one player in particular who has played up 2 years above his own age group in ID A's for many years who this year has moved to an NL1 club in his own age group. Whilst he doesn't look out of place, he is not running rings around the opposition.



I’d hazard a guess and say, no NPL club scouts community games.

This actually is happening in JDL ages. Can 100% confirm at my sons club at a minimum.


I used the example earlier of Warners bay. Are they entitled to enter teams into NPL youth comps if they meet criteria?

I certainly hope they have considered this and will allow for it in the future. Considering youth and seniors are going to be decoupled there is no reason to limit who can and cannot submit teams to participate.

[sapdad]

This actually is happening in JDL ages. Can 100% confirm at my sons club at a minimum.


100% true,your chief scout loves offering kids from other teams a spot at his club.

[Aegon]

100% true,your chief scout loves offering kids from other teams a spot at his club.

I was more referring approaches being made to miniroos parents when their kids are scouted.
The club doesn't undertake trials per se, any identified players are usually invited to train (usually at the end of the season) with the existing playing group for however many sessions as deemed necessary.

[sapdad]

I was more referring approaches being made to miniroos parents when their kids are scouted.
The club doesn't undertake trials per se, any identified players are usually invited to train (usually at the end of the season) with the existing playing group for however many sessions as deemed necessary.

and I was just having a laugh.I dont care that players are getting asked,its up to the kids to say yes or no if they want to be part of that type of thing.

[samcan]

I was more referring approaches being made to miniroos parents when their kids are scouted.
The club doesn't undertake trials per se, any identified players are usually invited to train (usually at the end of the season) with the existing playing group for however many sessions as deemed necessary.

kids are invited throughout the year. Also chosen from the holiday training days plus negotiations in person as needed.

But this happens at several clubs and it's up the the child and parents to decide.

Chances are that those lads would have changed clubs anyway.

I wonder how often it's the parents actively approaching clubs these days.

[sapdad]

I wonder if parents how often it's the parents actively approaching clubs these days.

Quite a bit I would say.Once youve been in the JDL system for the 3 or 4 years you tend to know a lot of other kids and parents and its very easy for parents to get talking to get their kid a run elsewhere.A lot of the time its just kids wanting to play with better teams,its geography,its coaching,its kids wanting to win or just play with mates they may have made along the way.Ive already seen a bit of buyers remorse from kids that have changed clubs.I would love to see those kids up and move to other clubs that could use the redistribution of talent but giving up a spot on a good team can have its own pitfalls.I guess the balance comes down to winning versus more game time and better long term development.No right or wrong answer there either.

[Zico]

yep its worse than you think. Sounds like we need some hard truths to surface.

Are you assuming Rosebuds, Weston, Cooks hill, Lake Mac are filling NPL with Youth? I wish those clubs were better. But they arent and they'd be lucky to press NL1teams/community teams. Get those 15s to have a trial v Bolwarra 15s.

So out of 12 teams the top 8 are realistically competitive. By the time we drop 4 hopefully those 8 would bolster all of their age groups to be competitive 1st to last. This sadly includes North C and Mid C.

Next NL1 - 16s missing 3 teams, 15s 1, 14s 2, 13s 2. Thats 8 teams out of the needed 40 (not inc NIAS) what a ****fest.

We have crap all chance of having 24 quality teams 13-16s. Even at 20 clubs NL1 will still have the usual 15-0 results which is what we are trying to avoid.

Need 8 in NPL, 8 in NPL1 and if we need to have some other clubs feel important which is what started this rubbish, have a development 3rd tier.
Otherwise we are just polishing the turd with new names.

Agree 100%

[KITZ]

This is a joke? right? This attitude is the same thats holding the whole comp back. Too scared to make the needed changes.

What are you even smoking? Its about making sustainable change and not collapsing the competitions trying to do too much at once.

[Eastwest]

What are you even smoking? Its about making sustainable change and not collapsing the competitions trying to do too much at once.

Not collapsing the comp?? bahahha. Its already fked and sustaining this shyte is a joke.

Needed the overhaul and the one touted seems ok although the 1st round will be a waste.

[KITZ]

Not collapsing the comp?? bahahha. Its already fked and sustaining this shyte is a joke.

Needed the overhaul and the one touted seems ok although the 1st round will be a waste.

Do you have anything to do with running a club? The whole system is underpinned by mainly volunteers, Making it complex and changing things too quickly can mean it can overwhelm already over worked volunteers, if you think its hard to collapse the competition then you have already very little idea of how much football is run by A. volunteers and B. People with day jobs.

I don't know why people come here just to throw around swear words and literally contribute nothing to the conversation.

I never said it didn't need to change, I said it needs to be done carefully to ensure that its not creating more workload for people who already volunteer their time to keep it all running. We've all seen the mess that happens when the JDL schedule is released in dribs and drabs, Mid season release of a competition schedule sounds like something that becomes fairly complex for working out ground availability around seniors, women seniors and youth, and the already massive task of fitting in a million JDL teams. it means after 8 rounds no one knows what they are doing and clubs can't plan their seasons - especially when you are looking at an entire clubs youth moving tiers since it would be impossible to only move single age groups.

Does any other competition in the country move divisions mid season?

[Lichael Richards]

Do you have anything to do with running a club? The whole system is underpinned by mainly volunteers, Making it complex and changing things too quickly can mean it can overwhelm already over worked volunteers, if you think its hard to collapse the competition then you have already very little idea of how much football is run by A. volunteers and B. People with day jobs.

I don't know why people come here just to throw around swear words and literally contribute nothing to the conversation.

I never said it didn't need to change, I said it needs to be done carefully to ensure that its not creating more workload for people who already volunteer their time to keep it all running. We've all seen the mess that happens when the JDL schedule is released in dribs and drabs, Mid season release of a competition schedule sounds like something that becomes fairly complex for working out ground availability around seniors, women seniors and youth, and the already massive task of fitting in a million JDL teams. it means after 8 rounds no one knows what they are doing and clubs can't plan their seasons - especially when you are looking at an entire clubs youth moving tiers since it would be impossible to only move single age groups. Does any other competition in the country move divisions mid season?

Look the changes will be ok.
Volunteers? We will need less due to less clubs. And those clubs who bump down a division wont die. The sun will still come up in div2. They will try harder and if they do disband it was bound to happen aka Wallsend.

Changing a draw at half season? forgive me so I can generally lose my **** for a minute ... ffs we might miss aunt Betty's 80th or still go on that EU trip just make a decision and stick to it. Do you wanna play football or knob around. Ok, back to sensible.

Mid season regrade - Yep. NSW NPL did a couple years back. Fairly large comp and worked a treat. Watch a few years of football down there.

We cant be scared to make a change.

Youth, its getting sloppy and boring and we owe it to them to fix it asap.

[Barry Dawson]

Rumour mill - can anyone confirm or deny the rumour that the Magic 16s coach and manager being sent off last week and getting 3 weeks suspension?

[Captain_Carl]

Rumour mill - can anyone confirm or deny the rumour that the Magic 16s coach and manager being sent off last week and getting 3 weeks suspension?

No they didn’t. Both got yellow cards. Both top blokes. I love ‘em just like the Valo 16s coach. Real characters.

[sapdad]

Changing a draw at half season? forgive me so I can generally lose my **** for a minute ... ffs we might miss aunt Betty's 80th or still go on that EU trip just make a decision and stick to it. Do you wanna play football or knob around. Ok, back to sensible.

Changing the draw isnt about the kids availability it is about grounds being available.Once clubs from 2 different divisions merge it may see days when neither has a ground available for a scheduled match.Its not a huge issue as most should line up but there will need to be tweaks made along the way.