2024 Premier Youth Leagues

[Gman]

Northern don't monitor and just accept what a club tells them. Clearly this club are breaking the rules and Northern despite talking about integrity within their competitions don't really care.

Though if the club has no faith in this keeper and aren't willing to let him play, it sounds like this keeper should be looking around elsewhere to be given these opportunities.

100% the kid is a gun and the coach knows it but the TD making all the decisions. My understanding is the kid is leaving to play NPL1 in Sydney?.

[Taffy]

100% the kid is a gun and the coach knows it but the TD making all the decisions. My understanding is the kid is leaving to play NPL1 in Sydney?.

Good on him, hopefully he does well.

[Skimmer]

Just to add to this,theres usually about 16-20 matchdays attended by assessors over a weekend.They dont do all grades but every written report my boys have ever gotten have been pretty in depth and helpful (for both centre refs and assistants).They give feedback on positioning,decisions and general management of the games.There was a program to get as many mentors (ex-players/coaches/interested parents) to give up their time and attend matchdays (most involving 1st year refs at JDL) to help kids with some of the finer points.If refs want to do finals series games they had to do an extra coaching session out at the facility as well as a fintess test.The refs did this on their own time.If they didnt pass both they werent going to be considered for selection.So to add to outsiders point,yes,in fact there is a lot of work being put in to improving the standard of refereeing every week.

What a joke this is. Youre just defensive as your kid is a ref. The amount of BS your hearing to what actually happens is a joke.
Many times this year in YPL the ref has been out of their depth. The instructor is pretending that they are competent. This isnt the grade they should be practicing. Again for your ignorance Northern is putting kids where they arent ready, not the refs fault.
Go back to JDL or community and get confidence. Too many games have become a farce where the more physical team can kick their way to a win or commit fouls and get away with it.

[Skimmer]

Sometimes referees do make poor decisions, some interpret the rules differently to one another, they may/may not see something on a pitch, and sometimes there are rules they don't realise or have forgotten in the moment, etc

We all make mistakes...but we're also not playing for sheep stations

I would like to think there was a review and feedback process to supplement the learning of especially the young referees. (There probably isn't though)...but feedback is the only way to really get better and improve standards

Some refs aren't making any decisions. They're too scared to blow the whistle.

[sapdad]

What a joke this is. Youre just defensive as your kid is a ref. The amount of BS your hearing to what actually happens is a joke.
Many times this year in YPL the ref has been out of their depth. The instructor is pretending that they are competent. This isnt the grade they should be practicing. Again for your ignorance Northern is putting kids where they arent ready, not the refs fault.
Go back to JDL or community and get confidence. Too many games have become a farce where the more physical team can kick their way to a win or commit fouls and get away with it.

I also see the games through 3 different perspectives across multiple age groups every weekend so theres plenty more players/refs and coaches I see apart from my own.I hope one day someone explains to you why referees are leading games at this level at this age.But then again it seems you are a massive part of the reason why this is happening so I doubt you would care.Also,refs cant 'just go back to community' but you would have known that if you had any understanding of how the program works.If you also had any clue you would know that community and JDL parents are just as big a set of clowns towards referees as YPL parents are and they are just as clueless when it comes to the rules of the game.But apart from that,great post.

[Dreamtime Yowie]

The refs should not be blamed but nnsw should. They are ruining the games by letting young inexperienced kids ref matches. In many instances letting kids that play the same age group in same competition which is a recipe for disaster. Where else in the world would you see a ref from same competition officiate rival teams games? What could go wrong ����*♂️

[sapdad]

In many instances letting kids that play the same age group in same competition which is a recipe for disaster.

I agree that this is not a great look but I dont think it happens all that often.It seems to happen more in the 15s/16s age group and there is a reason why but unless you want me to bore you then I wont explain.Its hard to have a direct policy when kids have played across different clubs with different coaches and teammates over the years they are always going to be officiating their rivals and friends especially when you take geography into it.Harder to have 'neutral' refs in places like Tamworth/Mid Coast and even up the Valley.It makes it hard when coaches go into games complaining that a ref is going to cheat them out of a game because 'reasons',if thats the starting point then theres no chance of anyone thinking the ref has done any good (unless they win then all of a sudden the ref isnt that bad).

[northern_swan]

I also see the games through 3 different perspectives across multiple age groups every weekend so theres plenty more players/refs and coaches I see apart from my own.I hope one day someone explains to you why referees are leading games at this level at this age.But then again it seems you are a massive part of the reason why this is happening so I doubt you would care.Also,refs cant 'just go back to community' but you would have known that if you had any understanding of how the program works.If you also had any clue you would know that community and JDL parents are just as big a set of clowns towards referees as YPL parents are and they are just as clueless when it comes to the rules of the game.But apart from that,great post.

First of all, IMO ref's should be starting at community to gain confidence and skills in a less pressured environment than going straight into JDL or PYL and having to deal with the dribble from the coaches & parents that go with that level of competition. This would also allow them to go "back to" community and gain skills at a higher age group before going up through the grades at the PYL level.

Secondly, refs under the NNSW banner are prohibited from doing community football even if they are available, and I'm aware of refs at this level who have been told they are not allowed to act as a club ref at community games even when NNSWF have not appointed them, leading to competent official referees sitting on the sideline while community clubs madly scramble to get the volunteer off the BBQ to get a whistle and take control of a game.

Finally, as a parent of two boys, one who has gone through JDL & is now in PYL, while the other has played MiniRoos & now Interdistrict, I am struggling to recall incidences of poor behaviour at community games that I do at JDL/YPL in the 6 seasons i've been watching JDL/PYL. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the incidences in my experience are few & far between at the comparable kids level. My PYL son has elected to be a club referee at community son's club for three seasons now because, in his words, "why would I go and have to deal with the crap that goes on each week at JDL or PYL, when I can go to the same ground every week i'm available, get great support from the club when I need it and not get called a cheat every time i blow the whistle"

All in all, reading back on what i'm writing, i'm not sure if i'm agreeing with you or not, but I don't think the issue is as cut & dried as either you or Skimmer make out. I probably tend to agree with Dreamtime Yowie on this one, I feel the issue lies with NNSWF in prioritising filling referee shirts with whoever they can in JDL or PYL over actually developing referees for the whole football pyramid, which as the state body I believe they should be doing.

[sapdad]

First of all, IMO ref's should be starting at community to gain confidence and skills in a less pressured environment than going straight into JDL or PYL and having to deal with the dribble from the coaches & parents that go with that level of competition. This would also allow them to go "back to" community and gain skills at a higher age group before going up through the grades at the PYL level.

Secondly, refs under the NNSW banner are prohibited from doing community football even if they are available, and I'm aware of refs at this level who have been told they are not allowed to act as a club ref at community games even when NNSWF have not appointed them, leading to competent official referees sitting on the sideline while community clubs madly scramble to get the volunteer off the BBQ to get a whistle and take control of a game.

Finally, as a parent of two boys, one who has gone through JDL & is now in PYL, while the other has played MiniRoos & now Interdistrict, I am struggling to recall incidences of poor behaviour at community games that I do at JDL/YPL in the 6 seasons i've been watching JDL/PYL. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the incidences in my experience are few & far between at the comparable kids level. My PYL son has elected to be a club referee at community son's club for three seasons now because, in his words, "why would I go and have to deal with the crap that goes on each week at JDL or PYL, when I can go to the same ground every week i'm available, get great support from the club when I need it and not get called a cheat every time i blow the whistle"

All in all, reading back on what i'm writing, i'm not sure if i'm agreeing with you or not, but I don't think the issue is as cut & dried as either you or Skimmer make out. I probably tend to agree with Dreamtime Yowie on this one, I feel the issue lies with NNSWF in prioritising filling referee shirts with whoever they can in JDL or PYL over actually developing referees for the whole football pyramid, which as the state body I believe they should be doing.

Fair post,and Im glad your lads are out there amongst it.The lack of connection between community and JDL/NPL is one of my main arguments as well.I agree that it could be beneficial but as you said,it cant happen the way its set up (which as you said is on NNSW not the refs).I think we are in agreement on most issues to be fair,I support the refs and have issues with the way the refs program is run.But I also have a bigger problem with coaches and parents who simply have no idea how any of it works and go straight to 'cheat' whenever they dont understand something.Everyone can do better but it seems that some people think that only the refs are the ones who need to change.

[WOW2.0]

As a parent, I most miss the community days of u6-8s...just seemed like much more fun, maybe it was the nostalgia of it! But I also don't remember anyone accusing refs of cheating then either (even when they were young kids from the same club)

Maybe beyond those ages it's a little more "vicious"

As my boy got older, I enjoyed refereeing games at SAP/JDL level...and I didn't mind a bit of banter from the crowd, home or away fans and often just saw it in good humour. I don't recall anything too sinister on game days from the crowd, or the kids while I was doing it. (I refed every home game until u12s when the green shirts took my job! :-P ) but I do know that the competitive spirit really does start to take hold at that time and it seemed to degrade once the green shirts did start to take over. (Again, maybe because if the novice status)

I like that idea of Northern Swan to have a developmental structure placed around it involving all the levels and having kids graduate back and forth across them! :)

[Taffy]

I do know that the competitive spirit really does start to take hold at that time and it seemed to degrade once the green shirts did start to take over. (Again, maybe because if the novice status

Parents are less likely to yell at a man than a teenager because the adult will push back.

[WOW2.0]

Parents are less likely to yell at a man than a teenager because the adult will push back.

True, but I'm also not very big and intimidating either, being not much taller than some of the kids I was reffing 😂. More Rotund with a bigger aura of gravitas though! 😛

[Aegon]

The refs should not be blamed but nnsw should. They are ruining the games by letting young inexperienced kids ref matches. In many instances letting kids that play the same age group in same competition which is a recipe for disaster. Where else in the world would you see a ref from same competition officiate rival teams games? What could go wrong ����*♂️

A bigger question is why inexperienced ref's have to ref these games?

The reason:

Parents, coaches and administrators have intimidated, repulsed or alienated so many intermediate or experienced ref's that there are nowhere near enough required for all games.

Nearly everyone needs to rein in their egos and opinions and let the game be played with who has been out in charge.

[Skimmer]

A bigger question is why inexperienced ref's have to ref these games?

The reason:

Parents, coaches and administrators have intimidated, repulsed or alienated so many intermediate or experienced ref's that there are nowhere near enough required for all games.

Nearly everyone needs to rein in their egos and opinions and let the game be played with who has been out in charge.

So you think thats its ok for refs who are clearly out of their depth and rarely pull up dangerous tackles are ok to ref?
Your ego and opinion is also inept.

[Skimmer]

Fair post,and Im glad your lads are out there amongst it.The lack of connection between community and JDL/NPL is one of my main arguments as well.I agree that it could be beneficial but as you said,it cant happen the way its set up (which as you said is on NNSW not the refs).I think we are in agreement on most issues to be fair,I support the refs and have issues with the way the refs program is run. But I also have a bigger problem with coaches and parents who simply have no idea how any of it works and go straight to 'cheat' whenever they dont understand something.Everyone can do better but it seems that some people think that only the refs are the ones who need to change.

Ive never heard a ref get called a cheat at jdl or ypl. where are you getting your BS from?
I've often heard cmon ref! or heyyyyy ... This isn't abuse unless you have the spine of a jellyfish.
Ive seen reffing that is more incompetent than the players on the field most weeks and who cant keep players safe whilst parents have bitten their tongue. Id rather a clubman do it.
Yes I've reffed at several levels junior and senior.
The seniors, which isnt in this convo is a different scene.

[Bremsstrahlung]

It’s obviously not okay or ideal for a referee to be out of their depth and allowing dangerous tackles as you suggest.

But, what’s the alternative? No refs? Club officials referee?

I guess, we just get better refs?


There’s only so much training, practice and development you can do. There are probably some things that could be done better. Community refereeing was a great space to get out, learn basics, have some fun and try refereeing. You’d move along the ages and get assessed at regular intervals and then you’d be trusted with some higher end games and eventually into the ‘rep’ games or SYL or whatever we were calling it.
So there’s some things, I think the refereeing bodies could do, eg allow that dual registration with NNSW and interdistrict branches.


The very very very root of the problem is that there are simply not enough people willing to referee.

Discovering why (abuse, dissent, lack of support, feeling out of depth, $$ vs time, playing commitments) there are not many referee and addressing those issues is going to be a long path. Nobody wakes up wanting to be a referee. They have a love of the game in one way or another, and think that it could be fun or a viable part time job. Due to lack of numbers, lack of junior games that require a referee (eg no more rooball, smaller field and side games for juniors) means that they are needed to go straight into the ages and divisions that may have historically taken 2-3+ years to reach, are now given to first years.


The hope, is that with changed behaviour, we can at least minimise the player abuse of referees, educate the crowds/parents to be respectful and limit abuse and hopefully allow these young referees to have an evironment conducive to development.



I was at friends last night, and they had the NRL on. There were controversial calls, penalties, sin bins. At no time was there disrespect or dissent or abuse towards the referee making the calls by the players. Only the captain would speak to the referee and it was always respectful and constructive. Contrast that to football whether it be EPL or NPL and see the players surround the referee, remonstrating, gesturing, pure dissent. Football has a problem with referee respect.


There’s a huge pool of players to select teams from. No such pool exists for referees, everybody referees a game.


Again, nobody wants an inexperienced referee, reffing a game. Not the players, not the parents, not the referee association, not the referee themself. It is what it is. People wouldn’t yell out abuse at maccas, so why is it acceptable at children’s sport?

[sapdad]

Ive never heard a ref get called a cheat at jdl or ypl. where are you getting your BS from?
I've often heard cmon ref! or heyyyyy ... This isn't abuse unless you have the spine of a jellyfish.

Do you think this whole 'zero tolerance' campaign was introduced because the marketing people were bored?

[sapdad]

Id rather have adult club referees or no game than the incompetence being served up today in YPL by Northern.
If you get all defensive because your kid is part of that then get a tissue and change sport.

Translation:"In an environment where everyone has their tin foil hats on and complains about bias refereeing I would rather my kids games be officiated by someone who has less knowledge of the rules and less air of impartiality because they are physically bigger and Im more scared to abuse them".How about this for a counterpoint:dont abuse people in their workplace.Feel free to pull your kid or your team from any games where you dont get a big boy referee and see what happens.Unqualified club referees,dumbest shit I've heard on here.

[Reds Forever]

My opinion on referee situation in region. It needs a complete overhaul from the top down.

It is embarrassing that the 3 local referee associations refuse to work with premier referee department and share resources to ensure all games have referees appointed. How many times do we hear all age games having 3 referees but senior zone games or YPL have none. Hard calls need to be made to create 1 referee department in region.

I am sure some referees give up due to abuse. However I know first hand that some referees leave to take up employment where money is more frequent over the course of the year. So many times my kids would have games washed out but then not be appointed for the rescheduled games and therefore missed out on some coin.

Talking about money. I also think NNSW taking money from kids pay to cover admin is a bit rich when you consider the amount of money clubs and players are paying for rego which includes referee costs. Was also shocked at cost to register to referee for 1st year refs, surely NNSW could cover cost and also waive costs in future years to reregister.

[Largesse]

Do you think this whole 'zero tolerance' campaign was introduced because the marketing people were bored?

I was sworn at by U11s JDL players. When I asked the coach to have a chat to his boys at half time about respecting the refs decision and moving on with the game (they were a dominant team who played some good football), I was told that they could challenge me because I wasn't a teenage ref and I should get on with it.

Clubs/coaches/parents set the culture, kids just follow

[Thomas477]

Id rather have adult club referees or no game than the incompetence being served up today in YPL by Northern.
If you get all defensive because your kid is part of that then get a tissue and change sport.

If you feel that strongly Rodders, here?s the nnswf ref website with a contact email on there, I?m sure Brad Carlin would love to hear your constructive feedback: https://www.northernnswfootball.com.au/resources/referee


My opinion on referee situation in region. It needs a complete overhaul from the top down.

It is embarrassing that the 3 local referee associations refuse to work with premier referee department and share resources to ensure all games have referees appointed. How many times do we hear all age games having 3 referees but senior zone games or YPL have none. Hard calls need to be made to create 1 referee department in region.

I am sure some referees give up due to abuse. However I know first hand that some referees leave to take up employment where money is more frequent over the course of the year. So many times my kids would have games washed out but then not be appointed for the rescheduled games and therefore missed out on some coin.

Talking about money. I also think NNSW taking money from kids pay to cover admin is a bit rich when you consider the amount of money clubs and players are paying for rego which includes referee costs. Was also shocked at cost to register to referee for 1st year refs, surely NNSW could cover cost and also waive costs in future years to reregister.

Problem is northern isn?t just the Hunter valley, it?s all the way up to Byron and inland. The local associations run the ?junior? comps, ergo, their primary focus is to provide refs for their games. It?s also not as simple as saying you can take those three and appoint them to PYL as 2 of them may have just played and are running the line for the game after their own. Also, to be blunt, refs don?t want to do games with the same level of scrutiny as PYL. I myself spent years with northern, and I love doing the odd all age or junior game as the players are just happy to be there and play a game. Also, to be blunt, northern doesn?t want to run the junior comps.

Northern also takes 10%, which isn?t that much. Where else do you suggest they get the money to cover their costs at the moment? With the funding they have, they struggle to get appointments out in a timely manner, let alone if you cut the department?s budget. Or people will say there?s not enough coaching, etc.

[Thomas477]

Already have. Not doing a great job. ffs keep up.

Tbh I don’t give enough of a **** about your rants to even bother to keep up, but thanks for the advice :fright:

[Taffy]

I was sworn at by U11s JDL players. When I asked the coach to have a chat to his boys at half time about respecting the refs decision and moving on with the game (they were a dominant team who played some good football), I was told that they could challenge me because I wasn't a teenage ref and I should get on with it.

Clubs/coaches/parents set the culture, kids just follow

Hope you showed them the red cards.

[WOW2.0]

With most clubs having just a single round left to go (of our all too short season)

Div 1 club positions:
1. Magic ~ 157 Points
2. Jaffas ~ 151 Points
3. Olympic ~ 143 Points
4. Valentine ~ 135 Points
5. NCF ~ 133 Points
6. Edgeworth ~ 133 Points
7. Lake Macquarie ~ 126 Points
8. Maitland ~ 112 Points

Seperating 5th and 6th is a GD variation of just 1?so an exciting battle there (NCF has more games in hand though)
(Sincere congratulations to Lakes 13s, and Olympic 14s on achieving the Minor Premierships in their age groups this weekend)

Div 2 club positions:
1. Weston ~ 60Pts
2. New Lambton ~ 55Pts
3. MidCoast ~ 50Pts
4. Charlestown ~ 36Pts
5. Cooks Hill ~ 35Pts
6. South Cardiff ~ 32Pts
7. Rosebuds ~ 24Pts
8. Belswans ~ 17Pts

I think it?s safe to say top 3 are sorted, but an interesting battle to the end for 4th, 5th and 6th with just 4 points seperating them
(Charlestown has played 28 games, Cooks Hill 25 and South Cardiff at 27?so a blanket finish for the last promotion spot)

N.B. One critique I have heard from some tier II parents is the fact it took them some time to adjust to the higher intensity of the 4 Div 1 clubs who dropped down...H/A phase 2 would have helped with that "acclimatisation" and might have offered greater opportunity for some promotion upsets)


Div 3 club positions:
1. West Wallsend ~ 55Pts
2. Kahibah ~ 43Pts
3. NIAS ~ 38Pts
4. Cessnock ~ 37Pts
5. Thornton ~ 33Pts
6. Toronto ~ 20Pts
7. Singleton ~ 19Pts
8. VACANT

There are quite a variation in this division, the best GA sits at 28, the worst at 100. GD variation is at best +43 Vs -71
~Clubs seem to dominate particular age groups, but not across the board?Interesting to hear people?s thoughts on how to even out this tier of competition~

[Taffy]

My prediction is Cooks Hill going back up out of those 3 by the skin of their teeth particularly since they have to play Belswans last. Charlestown was most likely with Cooks Hill the most deserving to go down but Charlestown slipped too many times and like last year Cooks Hill gets in because others choked.

[matjpacker]

The final match days at Blacksmiths and Ulinga are going to be intense with 3 of the 4 clubs fighting for that 4th spot!

I think Cooks Hill comes back up, I think they have the edge in enough age groups and arguably have the easier match day, but they still have to show up on the day of course.

[The Hacker]

The final match days at Blacksmiths and Ulinga are going to be intense with 3 of the 4 clubs fighting for that 4th spot!

I think Cooks Hill comes back up, I think they have the edge in enough age groups and arguably have the easier match day, but they still have to show up on the day of course.

Looks like Cooks Hill 16&18?s play midweek also

[WOW2.0]

Looks like Cooks Hill 16&18?s play midweek also

Looking at the positions in those age groups, I'd say they'll pick up an extra 3 points out of 6

That will push them into 4th spot

[sapdad]

Magic and Jaffas once again strong across the grades,I wonder how much the hypothetical 'points dropped' for Olympic vs New Lambton washout will factor in.I dont think for one second Olympic get all the points either if they ended up playing.In tier 2 I think Cooks Hill are safe.From the looks of it Belswans have fared the worst and South Cardiff the improvers since being in Div 2 last year at this time.It will be interesting to see how many of the 20 odd clubs have representation in the finals series after next week.I am with the crowd wanting a home and away round for the 2nd half.Any word on if we will get close to 24 teams in all grades next season?

[sapdad]

N.B. One critique I have heard from some tier II parents is the fact it took them some time to adjust to the higher intensity of the 4 Div 1 clubs who dropped down...H/A phase 2 would have helped with that "acclimatisation" and might have offered greater opportunity for some promotion upsets)


Funnily enough I was talking to a parent on the weekend who said they underestimated the Div B teams and there are more than one team across the division who dropped points early and may not even make the semis after expecting to win the grand final.Would be interesting to hear form any parents involved in Div 2 if the gap is closer from last year to this year.

[WOW2.0]

SAPDAD

On the gap comment


Thought this might be a useful comparison, but haven?t given it too much analysis

2023 Div 2:
1. Lakes ~ 69Pts (GD +39) ? now 7th in Div 1
~so will exclude~

2. Midcoast ~ 68Pts (GD +62)
Now 3rd in Div 2 with 50pts +18GD
PPG
Then: 2.00 Now: 1.67

3. New Lambton ~ 60Pts (GD +25)
Now 2nd in Div 2 with 55Pts +37GD
PPG
Then: 1.76 Now: 2.12

4. Cooks Hill ~ 43Pts (GD -22)
Now 5th in Div 2 with 35Pts (GD+4)
PPG
Then: 1.26 Now: 1.40

5. Belswans ~ 41Pts (GD -1)
Now 8th in Div 2 with 17Pts GD -41
PPG
Then: 1.21 Now: 0.59

6. Rosebuds ~ 37Pts (GD -28)
Now 7th in Div 2 with 24Pts GD -22
PPG
Then: 1.09 Now: 1.09

7. South Cardiff ~ 29Pts (GD -67)
Now 6th in Div 2 with 32Pts GD -25
PPG
Then: 0.85 Now: 1.19

8. Charlestown ~ 26Pts (GD -8)
Now 4th in Div 2 with 36Pts GD -17

PPG
Then: 0.76 Now 1.29


Interestingly that the combined goal difference across both seasons in Div 2 is exactly 0 (with a round or 2 to go in 2024)


In 2023, every Div 2 club *phase 2* had finals representation
Lakes made finals in every age group (1 in 1st place)
Midcoast ~ 4 Age Groups (2 in 1st place)
New Lambton ~ 3 Age Groups (2 in 1st place)
Belswans ~ 2 Age Groups
Rosebuds ~ 2 Ages Groups
Cooks Hill ~ 2 Age Groups
Charlestown ~ 1 Age Group
South Cardiff ~ 1 Age Group

As per current standings only 6 clubs will participate in finals
New Lambton ~ 5 Ages (1 in 1st place)
Weston ~ 4 Ages (3 in 1st place)
Mid Coast ~ 4 Ages (1 in 1st place)
Cooks Hill ~ 3 Ages
Charlestown ~ 2 Ages
South Cardiff ~ 2 Ages

[AVB]

Anyone have an opinion of including u18s in Club Championship table?

Funny that a team might cost a club promotion for the following year, that they won't be a part of.

Looking at this years table for instance. Cooks Hill u18s are only on 1 point while all their other teams are track for semi finals. So if they get relegated for next year it will be primarily on the perfomance of a group of players that will not be affected by the relegation.

Also would be interesting to know how clubs prioritise reserve grade vs u18s in the current format. Theres an argument that Reserve grade is the least important team in each club as it doesnt affect pro/rel at all. Does that mean clubs are more inclined to keep players in u18s and earn points instead of promoting them to ressies?

[WOW2.0]

Anyone have an opinion of including u18s in Club Championship table?

Funny that a team might cost a club promotion for the following year, that they won't be a part of.

Looking at this years table for instance. Cooks Hill u18s are only on 1 point while all their other teams are track for semi finals. So if they get relegated for next year it will be primarily on the perfomance of a group of players that will not be affected by the relegation.

Also would be interesting to know how clubs prioritise reserve grade vs u18s in the current format. Theres an argument that Reserve grade is the least important team in each club as it doesnt affect pro/rel at all. Does that mean clubs are more inclined to keep players in u18s and earn points instead of promoting them to ressies?

If 18s were not included the changes would be

Div 2
Weston to 1st
NL to 2nd
Cooks Hill to 4th
Charlestown to 5th
(All others stay the same)
(Promoted: Weston, NL, Mid Coast and Cooks Hill)

If 18s had not counted NIAS would have been promoted, and Rosebuds would be in Div3 from phase 1


Div 1 championship changes would be
Lakes to 3rd
Olympic to 4th
Valo to 5th
NCF to 7th
All other clubs stay the same


Div 3 would have WW and Kahibah switch players Kahibah 1, WW 2 (same points and GD but slight better PPG)

[Izzy]

Anyone have an opinion of including u18s in Club Championship table?

Funny that a team might cost a club promotion for the following year, that they won't be a part of.

Looking at this years table for instance. Cooks Hill u18s are only on 1 point while all their other teams are track for semi finals. So if they get relegated for next year it will be primarily on the perfomance of a group of players that will not be affected by the relegation.

Also would be interesting to know how clubs prioritise reserve grade vs u18s in the current format. Theres an argument that Reserve grade is the least important team in each club as it doesnt affect pro/rel at all. Does that mean clubs are more inclined to keep players in u18s and earn points instead of promoting them to ressies?

I would argue that a significant portion of U18 squads are made up of U17 players who will play again the following season, so they should be included in the Championship table. I know for our Div 1 club over half of the players in the U18s squad are U17.

[Hunter403]

I would argue that a significant portion of U18 squads are made up of U17 players who will play again the following season, so they should be included in the Championship table. I know for our Div 1 club over half of the players in the U18s squad are U17.

Massive generalisation. I am well aware of some clubs where the opposite applies. Ideally you want a 50/50 split of 16 & 17 year olds, but sometimes it just doesn't work out.

[sapdad]

I have no scientific data to back anything up I would just rather see 18s go back with seniors to make a shorter youth day and get 17-18 year olds in and around the seniors environment sooner.

[Izzy]

Massive generalisation. I am well aware of some clubs where the opposite applies. Ideally you want a 50/50 split of 16 & 17 year olds, but sometimes it just doesn't work out.

Of course the opposite applies. I said significant portion, not all or most. So answer the questions asked. Do you think U18s should be included in the Championship table? I do.

[prawnhead]

I have no scientific data to back anything up I would just rather see 18s go back with seniors to make a shorter youth day and get 17-18 year olds in and around the seniors environment sooner.

Agree

[Jardelsimage]

I have no scientific data to back anything up I would just rather see 18s go back with seniors to make a shorter youth day and get 17-18 year olds in and around the seniors environment sooner.

after watching Southy's OBD it was rather dead turning up to watch reggies play and you are correct you need the young ones to be around the senior setup.

[ForeverRed]

after watching Southy's OBD it was rather dead turning up to watch reggies play and you are correct you need the young ones to be around the senior setup.

Definitely return 18s to the senior group

[Taffy]

Anyone have an opinion of including u18s in Club Championship table?

Funny that a team might cost a club promotion for the following year, that they won't be a part of.

Looking at this years table for instance. Cooks Hill u18s are only on 1 point while all their other teams are track for semi finals. So if they get relegated for next year it will be primarily on the perfomance of a group of players that will not be affected by the relegation.

You'll find a lot of clubs have a lot of players not turning 18 this year, Magic for example have quite a few U16 players permanently in their U18s. Some clubs may have majority 18s at least for one year but the next it won't be. Most will be affected.

Furthermore U18s end of youth, the point is also about developing your players, which is why it is a club championship. Build your players up, if your 18s aren't going well because you've developed them poorly than the club needs to look at themselves and their program rather than just blaming the players.

If you took U18s out and said now it is U16s, then your argument about one team primarily made of players not involved next year would actually be a lot stronger because the vast majority would be aging out the following year.



Also would be interesting to know how clubs prioritise reserve grade vs u18s in the current format. Theres an argument that Reserve grade is the least important team in each club as it doesnt affect pro/rel at all. Does that mean clubs are more inclined to keep players in u18s and earn points instead of promoting them to ressies?

Some clubs certainly do play their weaker U18s in reserves when needed over the stronger ones. Something players should keep an eye on and decide if they want to play U18s or if they want to be challenged and go to a team that will still give them reserves time.

[Taffy]

I have no scientific data to back anything up I would just rather see 18s go back with seniors to make a shorter youth day and get 17-18 year olds in and around the seniors environment sooner.

No reason that couldn't happen and still be part of the youth club championship.

[sapdad]

No reason that couldn't happen and still be part of the youth club championship.

Sounds like a win/win doesnt it.

[scowling]

No reason that couldn't happen and still be part of the youth club championship.

I'm in favour of 18s being part of the senior game day; however I can't see how it works post-decoupling

Wouldn't there be mismatched draws? Negating the whole point of having the same club players there on game day?
And of course there's the problem where some NPL teams will no longer have representation in the pool of clubs playing Youth games (or vice versa)?

Or are we suggesting that U18s be re-coupled back into the senior setup so that they get promoted/relegated in line with their first grade team?

[Taffy]

I'm in favour of 18s being part of the senior game day; however I can't see how it works post-decoupling

Wouldn't there be mismatched draws? Negating the whole point of having the same club players there on game day?
And of course there's the problem where some NPL teams will no longer have representation in the pool of clubs playing Youth games (or vice versa)?

Or are we suggesting that U18s be re-coupled back into the senior setup so that they get promoted/relegated in line with their first grade team?

Absolutely not suggesting that, otherwise we really are in the situation where the U16s results count towards something the players have no involvement in the following year. Not to mention the U18s aren't senior players particularly when some even in Div1 sides are only turning 16.

There may be some mismatch draws but those clubs that want to do it will just have to accept it.

[Addios]

whats the latest club championship for each div?

[sapdad]

Cooks Hill only need 1 or 2 wins of their catch up games they will be back up.The 4 clubs that went to Div 2 at the halfway all go back up if thats the case.Across all age groups,only 3 or 4 teams in the bottom 4 clubs made the semis so it sounds like the gap is still there.

[Taffy]

Will take a few years for the gap to disappear, not that it is the aim. But for those that were in Div 1, these players get to experience finals football, something that for most of those teams they wouldn't have ever had the chance to under the old system

[Retired01]

Will take a few years for the gap to disappear, not that it is the aim. But for those that were in Div 1, these players get to experience finals football, something that for most of those teams they wouldn't have ever had the chance to under the old system

The disappointing thing is that some kids left clubs that were dropped and started playing with Div 1 clubs for the second half of the season. This should be stopped next season by northern

[Izzy]

The disappointing thing is that some kids left clubs that were dropped and started playing with Div 1 clubs for the second half of the season. This should be stopped next season by northern

It is ridiculous and needs to be addressed. Make the cut-off for transfers the 30th April, not the current 30th June. This exact issue was noted as an 'area of concern' by NNSW when the relegation/promotion system was introduced last year.

[sapdad]

It is ridiculous and needs to be addressed. Make the cut-off for transfers the 30th April, not the current 30th June. This exact issue was noted as an 'area of concern' by NNSW when the relegation/promotion system was introduced last year.

I agree its a bad look,but there are also kids who moved for reasons that had nothing to do with the ladder.Its hard for the federation to do anything when clubs and kids all agree to do it.For those kids that left a club and joined another it was great for the short term,but the kids who got bumped to make way for the new kids,and anyone still at that club and contemplating going there must now be wary that it can happen to them.Reputations stick so all players can do is be wary of whats out there.If they are happy to put themselves at that type of risk then so be it.For every trophy hunter that changes clubs for 'success' there is another at a club who is being frozen out,or not enjoying their football,and we need to make sure we look after them too.

[Taffy]

I agree its a bad look,but there are also kids who moved for reasons that had nothing to do with the ladder.

That's true I know of 2 kids that left their club that was in League A for a club in League B because they felt they were being unfairly treated by the club.


Its hard for the federation to do anything when clubs and kids all agree to do it.

The Federation could do something then it doesn't matter what the clubs and players agree to.


another at a club who is being frozen out,or not enjoying their football,and we need to make sure we look after them too.

Certainly need to allow them to leave, and also look to not join, amazes me to hear one club is dropping 1/3 of its team despite very good success because they want to bring in better players. You can look there if you want, but I'd be wary about signing up for a club that is happy to cast you aside because they think they can get a better player no matter how well you've done.

[Izzy]

I have no real issue with transfers per se, but take issue with the very late deadline date. Agreed there are players who move clubs for legitimate reasons and are not 'trophy hunting', but why move near 30 June? Relegation is pretty much locked in by then. Just change the deadline date NNSW.

[sapdad]

I have no real issue with transfers per se, but take issue with the very late deadline date. Agreed there are players who move clubs for legitimate reasons and are not 'trophy hunting', but why move near 30 June? Relegation is pretty much locked in by then. Just change the deadline date NNSW.

I agree this would hopefully discourage moving to get in a better team.Maybe anything after the deadline needs to be signed off by the current club coach and TD so if a kid isnt getting time or not handling it then everyone should be ok with helping them move to a better situation.

[ForeverRed]

I agree its a bad look,but there are also kids who moved for reasons that had nothing to do with the ladder.Its hard for the federation to do anything when clubs and kids all agree to do it.For those kids that left a club and joined another it was great for the short term,but the kids who got bumped to make way for the new kids,and anyone still at that club and contemplating going there must now be wary that it can happen to them.Reputations stick so all players can do is be wary of whats out there.If they are happy to put themselves at that type of risk then so be it.For every trophy hunter that changes clubs for 'success' there is another at a club who is being frozen out,or not enjoying their football,and we need to make sure we look after them too.
You could put it down to bad parenting, some decisions were probably made by trophy hunting parents, I?d be teaching my child about commitment to the team they already signed with, I?d be teaching them it?s not bad to lose.

[sapdad]

You could put it down to bad parenting, some decisions were probably made by trophy hunting parents, I?d be teaching my child about commitment to the team they already signed with, I?d be teaching them it?s not bad to lose.

100% agree.Reading some of your posts with respect it sounds like youve been around longer than me so have probably seen this all before.Every old head I speak to doesnt really worry about it as they all say these types of kids are usually done by 16s and 18s anyway because it gets even tougher and they havent built up any way to cope with it and find it easier to just give up.

[JustMe]

Not sure why all the worry.
The whole process is results based with a bit of "we'll develop your kid" thrown in. Yes some coaches do it better than others but then they leave when their kid grow up & leave. Its an ongoing turnstyle. Teams that lose will still cut kids as slightly better ones come in. Teams that win will cut kids as they try to become even stronger. Theres little loyalty in the top tier. Best kids will get looked after though. Some loyalty in the 2nd and maybe some more in the 3rd due to no one cares about the small club syndrome.

Id rather have kids play for their home suburb. They were the days when I had the most pride and busted my ass the most and got rewarded on bigger stages.

[WOW2.0]

...Reputations stick so all players can do is be wary of whats out there.If they are happy to put themselves at that type of risk then so be it.

...reputations stick to these kids, this is a silly take, because it's typically an adult making these decisions why blame the kid 🤷

They also may be leaving for any number of reasons, not getting game time, bullying, etc...it won't always be for "trophy hunting"

I don't know how many have done this. I don't know of anyone that did this in my son's club or elsewhere. Is it a prevelent problem?

[WOW2.0]

whats the latest club championship for each div?

Div 1 Results
2 games unplayed according to Squadi Jaffas Vs Olympic in 15s and 16s

Championship table:
1. Jaffas (161Pts)
2. Magic (158Pts)
3. Olympic (150Pts)
4. NCF (147Pts)
5. Valentine (142Pts)
6. Edgeworth (139Pts)
7. Lake Mac (129Pts)
8. Maitland (116Pts)

Without 18s:
Jaffas
Magic
Olympic
Valentine
Lake Mac
NCF
Edgeworth
Maitland


Semi Finals 1Vs4 and 2Vs3
U13s
Lakes Vs Maitland and Magic Vs Jaffas

U14s
Olympic Vs Jaffas and Valentine Vs Edgeworth

U15s
Jaffas Vs Valentine and Olympic Vs Magic

U16s
Maitland Vs Jaffas and NCF Vs Magic

U18s
NCF Vs Valentine and Edgeworth Vs Olympic


Max/Min GDs by age group (across 18 games for Div 1, other divs stats reduce to 7 rounds only due to their reset)
U13s +52/-39
U14s +35/-30
U15s +25/-12
U16s +31/-28
U18s +34/-23

There were teams that didn?t win a game, some also didn?t manage a draw in Phase 2 - pro/rel by team (rather than club average) likely would have seen better outcomes for those teams

(Will run through the other 2 divisions tomorrow hopefully?anything in particular you think would be useful let me know and I?ll try to include it)

[sapdad]

...reputations stick to these kids, this is a silly take, because it's typically an adult making these decisions why blame the kid 🤷

They also may be leaving for any number of reasons, not getting game time, bullying, etc...it won't always be for "trophy hunting"

I don't know how many have done this. I don't know of anyone that did this in my son's club or elsewhere. Is it a prevelent problem?

I was talking about the reputations of clubs,not kids.I spelt out that kids can leave for a variety of reasons thats why I dont support banning transfers.The main example I assume people are referring to was a Div 1 club that got relegated so a few players from one of their age groups left and joined a team that were staying up.The club they went to has had a reputation of being aggressive recruiters since year 1 of JDL.It has brought them success so good for them.

[jessepinkman]

I was talking about the reputations of clubs,not kids.I spelt out that kids can leave for a variety of reasons thats why I dont support banning transfers.The main example I assume people are referring to was a Div 1 club that got relegated so a few players from one of their age groups left and joined a team that were staying up.The club they went to has had a reputation of being aggressive recruiters since year 1 of JDL.It has brought them success so good for them.

problem is that parents dont care about reputation because 99% of parents are easily sold by a coach or TD telling them their kid is the next Messi, because 99% of parents in newy genuinely believe that


criteria for choosing a club for your kid should be as follows:
- no bloated seniors budget
- good coaches that arent just parents or relatives of players
- club that focuses on coach education as well as player education (environment where everyone learns so mistakes can be made)
- facilities (dont spend your inflated rego on having to do cross training in some gym because your clubs pitch is closed all week so that overpaid seniors can trot around on it)
- is your kid going to enjoy playing there? (because if theyre 14+ and playing in newy youth setups, it doesnt really matter where they play as its not going to be their full time career, so they may as well enjoy the game so they can continue to be part of it)

[sapdad]

problem is that parents dont care about reputation because 99% of parents are easily sold by a coach or TD telling them their kid is the next Messi, because 99% of parents in newy genuinely believe that


criteria for choosing a club for your kid should be as follows:
- no bloated seniors budget
- good coaches that arent just parents or relatives of players
- club that focuses on coach education as well as player education (environment where everyone learns so mistakes can be made)
- facilities (dont spend your inflated rego on having to do cross training in some gym because your clubs pitch is closed all week so that overpaid seniors can trot around on it)
- is your kid going to enjoy playing there? (because if theyre 14+ and playing in newy youth setups, it doesnt really matter where they play as its not going to be their full time career, so they may as well enjoy the game so they can continue to be part of it)

Well said.Although I would say that only 1% of the parents think they have the next Messi,but they certinaly make 99% of the noise.

[northern_swan]

Div 1 Results
2 games unplayed according to Squadi Jaffas Vs Olympic in 15s and 16s

Championship table:
1. Jaffas (161Pts)
2. Magic (158Pts)
3. Olympic (150Pts)
4. NCF (147Pts)
5. Valentine (142Pts)
6. Edgeworth (139Pts)
7. Lake Mac (129Pts)
8. Maitland (116Pts)

Without 18s:
Jaffas
Magic
Olympic
Valentine
Lake Mac
NCF
Edgeworth
Maitland


Semi Finals 1Vs4 and 2Vs3
U13s
Lakes Vs Maitland and Magic Vs Jaffas

U14s
Olympic Vs Jaffas and Valentine Vs Edgeworth

U15s
Jaffas Vs Valentine and Olympic Vs Magic

U16s
Maitland Vs Jaffas and NCF Vs Magic

U18s
NCF Vs Valentine and Edgeworth Vs Olympic


Max/Min GDs by age group (across 18 games for Div 1, other divs stats reduce to 7 rounds only due to their reset)
U13s +52/-39
U14s +35/-30
U15s +25/-12
U16s +31/-28
U18s +34/-23

There were teams that didn?t win a game, some also didn?t manage a draw in Phase 2 - pro/rel by team (rather than club average) likely would have seen better outcomes for those teams

(Will run through the other 2 divisions tomorrow hopefully?anything in particular you think would be useful let me know and I?ll try to include it)

Olympic v Jaffas played tonight in 15&16s
15s NO 3-1 LJ
16s NO 3-0 LJ

15s finals will now be NO v VAL & LJ v BM
16s remains the same

[WOW2.0]

Olympic v Jaffas played tonight in 15&16s
15s NO 3-1 LJ
16s NO 3-0 LJ

15s finals will now be NO v VAL & LJ v BM
16s remains the same

Bet they regret not having played that round against New Lambton in Phase 1 now, potential extra 10 points would have given them the club championship

(They were each assigned a draw and took 1 point each...hence 10 available not 15, because no doubt someone will want to complain about my maths skills 😛)

[WOW2.0]

Now that's an odd unicode error

[ForeverRed]

Bet they regret not having played that round against New Lambton in Phase 1 now, potential extra 10 points would have given them the club championship

(They were each assigned a draw and took 1 point each...hence 10 available not 15, because no doubt someone will want to complain about my maths skills 😛)
Hopefully they don?t regret it, it?s junior sport at the end of the day, it?s not always about winning, maybe the volunteers weren?t available to help out

[Taffy]

...reputations stick to these kids, this is a silly take, because it's typically an adult making these decisions why blame the kid 🤷

I think he was talking about the reputation of the club rather than the player but yes they do stick as well, particularly if a player does it every year



They also may be leaving for any number of reasons, not getting game time, bullying, etc...it won't always be for "trophy hunting"

Which is true


Is it a prevelent problem?

Probably not as much as some people are making it out to be. Though any kid leaving may have the club/coach/TD saying it is because of this so the problem is worse when the player is leaving because they were promised the world and nothing was delivered.

[Taffy]

Bet they regret not having played that round against New Lambton in Phase 1 now, potential extra 10 points would have given them the club championship

(They were each assigned a draw and took 1 point each...hence 10 available not 15, because no doubt someone will want to complain about my maths skills 😛)

It was New Lambton who decided to wash their ground out, did Olympic look for alternatives knowing the rain was coming? Who knows, but if they did it would still require approval from New Lambton

[Izzy]

Supposedly NCF agreed to a 'shake hands' 0-0 draw with Edgeworth for a washed out game in the U16s and U18s. Highly likely it cost NCF the minor premiership in the U16s.

[Dreamtime Yowie]

Supposedly NCF agreed to a 'shake hands' 0-0 draw with Edgeworth for a washed out game in the U16s and U18s. Highly likely it cost NCF the minor premiership in the U16s.

If only we had a wet weather facility around here to play these games. :whistling:

[WOW2.0]

Div 2

1. NL (68Pts) +49
2. Weston (63Pts) +36
3. MidCoast (62Pts) +34
4. Charlestown (48Pts) -10
5. Cooks Hill (47Pts) +17
6. South Cardiff (36Pts) -41
7. Rosebuds (24Pts) -38
8. Belswans (17Pts) -49

There are a few teams that have catchup games to make ? this will probably have Cooks Hill supplant Charlestown for 4th spot (5 games Vs 1 game makeup and a difference of 1Pt).
All but confirmed all 4 teams that dropped will go back up.

Without 18s:
New Lambton
MidCoast
Weston
Cooks Hill
Charlestown
South Cardiff
Rosebuds
Belswans

Finals (as at current standings 1V4 and 2V3)
U13s
Weston Vs NL and Cooks Hill Vs Charlestown

U14s
NL Vs Weston and MidCoast Vs Cooks Hill

U15s
MidCoast Vs Cooks Hill and NL Vs South Cardiff

U16s
NL Vs Charlestown and MidCoast Vs Weston

U18s
Weston Vs MidCoast and South Cardiff Vs NL

Interesting comment yesterday was that it allowed some teams who don?t get finals football to enjoy this. It of course comes at the expense of the tier 2 teams that are now missing finals football in Phase 2


Max/Min GDs by age group (across 7 games for Div 2)
U13s +8/-11
U14s +14/-14
U15s +7/-6
U16s +16/-18
U18s +13/-9

[WOW2.0]

Div 3
Unchanged positions from last Div 3 update
(all matches played)

1. West Wallsend (57Pts) +32
2. Kahibah (55Pts) +38
3. NIAS (46Pts) +47
4. Cessnock (46Pts) +17
5. Thornton (36Pts) -22
6. Toronto (26Pts) -40
7. Singleton (19Pts) -71

Without 18s
Kahibah
NIAS
West Wallsend
Cessnock
Toronto
Thornton
Singleton

Div 3 finals (assuming it?s still top 4, despite only 7 teams (6 in 18s)
U13s
Toronto Vs Cessnock and NIAS Vs West Wallsend

U14s
Kahibah Vs West Wallsend and NIAS Vs Cessnock

U15s
Kahibah Vs Singleton and West Wallsend Vs Cessnock

U16s
NIAS Vs Cessnock and Kahibah Vs Thornton

U18s

West Wallsend Vs Kahibah and Thornton Vs Cessnock

Max/Min GDs by age group (across 6 games for Div 3 (5 games in U18s ? how crap is that!!!)
13s +26/-20
14s +18/-27
15s +33/-27
16s +9/-17
18s +15/-14

There have been some quite big scorelines across the age groups...if I had more time I would have pulled some out

[Taffy]

Interesting comment yesterday was that it allowed some teams who don?t get finals football to enjoy this. It of course comes at the expense of the tier 2 teams that are now missing finals football in Phase 2

That is true as well, which means some teams in Div C get to experience it. Those teams that may have dominated Div 2 had it just stayed the same would have been in finals but now in this format they will be better players in the long term having played tougher but competitive opponents. Div A last rounds had to last 7 rounds against generally tougher opponents every game and those in Div C generally also played against similar level and competitive opponents too.

[WOW2.0]

That is true as well, which means some teams in Div C get to experience it. Those teams that may have dominated Div 2 had it just stayed the same will be better players in the long term having played tougher but competitive opponents, same with those in both other divisions too.

I think it would be better to have H/A in phase 2...playing finals after just 5 games is pretty ridiculous and would mean more after a H/A series

On the theme of our short season.
Was thinking last night...how any red card suspension here is a greater punishment then the same in Sydney (as a representative of percentage of games missed) not sure that's overly fair either

[Taffy]

I think it would be better to have H/A in phase 2...playing finals after just 5 games is pretty ridiculous and would mean more after a H/A series

Certainly wouldn't be against that, though I know that clubs are already complaining about long seasons, I would suggest get rid of finals to help, but apparently because we are in Australia we need to have them

[WOW2.0]

Wonder if people are complaining about the 30 round season in Sydney...or see it as the development pathway toward a higher standard!

Falling behind every season while we don't do anything to keep up :(

Dump the organised trials at the start of the season

In 18s div 3, finals will make up 40% of their season for the two finalists 😂 ridiculous in the extreme

H/A Phase 2 would be 25 games for the season...

Alternative 3 div's of 8 playing 3 times a peace would be 21 games (ostensibly at a higher standard) (with pro/rel at the end of the season (by team 100% my preference to the mid season split)

[AVB]

Cooks Hill won two catch up games last night, so officially promoted back to Div 1 for 2025.

this u18s realignment to seniors is interesting.

There are a few interesting outcomes:

U18s now aligned with NPL and NL1 rather than the youth leagues
Midcoast and Far North Coast will have u18s teams even without ressies and first grade teams - Does this make them immune from relegation in u18s? Seems unfair if all other teams will be relegated based on 1st grade performance but those teams can't be?
Lake Macquarie whos u18s expected to play in the top youth division next year have now been 'relegated' to NL1 for 2025
Belswans whos u18s finished last on 3 points in Youth Divison B have now been ''promoted' to NPL for 2025

[Dreamtime Yowie]

Cooks Hill won two catch up games last night, so officially promoted back to Div 1 for 2025.

this u18s realignment to seniors is interesting.

There are a few interesting outcomes:

U18s now aligned with NPL and NL1 rather than the youth leagues
Midcoast and Far North Coast will have u18s teams even without ressies and first grade teams - Does this make them immune from relegation in u18s? Seems unfair if all other teams will be relegated based on 1st grade performance but those teams can't be?
Lake Macquarie whos u18s expected to play in the top youth division next year have now been 'relegated' to NL1 for 2025
Belswans whos u18s finished last on 3 points in Youth Divison B have now been ''promoted' to NPL for 2025



Why do we keep rewarding failure? Teams that got belted from Pilar to post in Div 1 are now in finals in Div 2 and parents posting videos saying champions. Champions of what? Participation awards, give me a break, no wonder we can?t produce talented players. We reward failure too often now. Craig Johnson is right about NNSW. Overseas the kids have the mentality that failure isn?t an option. Well here it is.
And don?t get me started on the standard of refs these days. :sup:

[Taffy]

Cooks Hill won two catch up games last night, so officially promoted back to Div 1 for 2025.

this u18s realignment to seniors is interesting.

There are a few interesting outcomes:

U18s now aligned with NPL and NL1 rather than the youth leagues
Midcoast and Far North Coast will have u18s teams even without ressies and first grade teams - Does this make them immune from relegation in u18s? Seems unfair if all other teams will be relegated based on 1st grade performance but those teams can't be?
Lake Macquarie whos u18s expected to play in the top youth division next year have now been 'relegated' to NL1 for 2025
Belswans whos u18s finished last on 3 points in Youth Divison B have now been ''promoted' to NPL for 2025


Seems a bit ridiculous to align a youth team with 1st grade and not with the full youth program.

Not to mention Northern doing this so late, most players have already committed to a club for 2025 and we will now have youth teams that performed very well potentially now going to another division. Would hate to think what would happen should Kahibah, West Wallsend or Toronto win the play-off final. So much for having young players aligned to similar players and wanting a reduction in score blow-outs.

We will now be in a situation where 16 year olds still being developing will either be pushed up potentially 2 divisions (League C to NPL18s) and will be destroyed or players who are much better romping it in a competition that doesn't count towards clubs moving up or down in either promotion/relegation structure.

You also forgot about Adamstown Rosebuds 18s who came 6th in Div 2 and 5th in DivB also get to go up, not to mention their 16s who only got 1 win in DivB will be going up. So much for wanting a system the develops players and play "like-for-like"

Clubs are upset about kids they work on leaving and now if they have a bad year in 1st grade will potentially lose a lot of 16 and 17 year olds. It takes us back to the bad days of 10 years ago where clubs would lose whole teams. Not sure why Newcastle always wants to live in the past but wonder why things don't get better.


But apparently the clubs want it changed because it means more money coming into the canteen on game day. That might be fine for the clubs but Northern should be looking at the big picture.

[Taffy]

Craig Johnson is right about NNSW.

Yep and these changes are reflective of that, I thought Craig should look at the changes Northern have made to youth and give it some time, but now with this change, I see exactly what Craig is talking about and he is 100% right, if Northern did want to help produce better players they wouldn't be making such a drastic change that is nothing but insular and short term thinking. No plans, no ideas, and no vision from Northern.

[sapdad]

And don?t get me started on the standard of refs these days. :sup:

Nah,go for it,let it all out mate.If youve got any spare time maybe you can get started on the standard of some of the coaching as well.

[sapdad]

Teams that got belted from Pilar to post in Div 1 are now in finals in Div 2 and parents posting videos saying champions.

To be fair its usually just that same one club isnt it.You are better off just laughing at them like the rest of the program does.

[WOW2.0]

So is 18s going to snrs football now?

[Dreamtime Yowie]

Nah,go for it,let it all out mate.If youve got any spare time maybe you can get started on the standard of some of the coaching as well.

Well with coaches that?s an easy fix. If I don?t like my son?s coach I just leave the club it?s not hard. You can play for another coach/ club. The standard of refs affects the whole comp.
I?m not singling out any club, I?m sure all clubs have seen the standard of it. Or you mean the club getting belted?
In youth NPL the best you could probably hope for is maybe a parent that played the game at a decent level and not much more unless your kid makes it to a higher level. I mean what can we expect for YNPL? Do we want an ex EPL player or Socceroo. No chance of that.

[Taffy]

Yes apparently 16 and 17 year old boys are senior players.

[Izzy]

So is 18s going to snrs football now?

Has there been an announcement for this from NNSW? Can anyone provide a link? Didn't the 18s only get moved into PYL 2 seasons ago?

[Dreamtime Yowie]

Well yes they are. Spain have 16yr olds winning euros. Let them experience what it’s like to play with men. Or hey let’s wrap them up in cotton wool. Why change a system that worked for years. NNSW trying to come up with the next bright idea is only stuffing things up even more. They have just over cooked everything.

[Taffy]

Has there been an announcement for this from NNSW? Can anyone provide a link? Didn't the 18s only get moved into PYL 2 seasons ago?

PYL only started two years ago.

[Taffy]

Well yes they are. Spain have 16yr olds winning euros. Let them experience what it’s like to play with men. Or hey let’s wrap them up in cotton wool. Why change a system that worked for years. NNSW trying to come up with the next bright idea is only stuffing things up even more. They have just over cooked everything.

Except it didn't work did it. And you aren't playing with men in U18s, with nothing stopping 16 year olds from playing with men this season either.

[sapdad]

Well with coaches that?s an easy fix. If I don?t like my son?s coach I just leave the club it?s not hard. You can play for another coach/ club. The standard of refs affects the whole comp.

You could always take your son to go play in another comp.All Age and community dont get many refs at all,you would be happy there.Lets face it though,without a few teenagers out on the field to blame most coaches and parents would be sad because they are way too gutless to abuse players and coaches when they make mistakes.They need an outlet for their insecurities and to yell nice and loud to the world how little they know about the rules.I enjoy watching it.Cant wait for the inevitable flip out this weekend when all important trophies are starting to come closer.

[Izzy]

PYL only started two years ago.

How very deliberately obtuse of you so I will rephrase. Didn't the 18s only get moved into the youth structure 2 years ago with the introduction of the PYL? What is changing?

[sapdad]

Except it didn't work did it. And you aren't playing with men in U18s, with nothing stopping 16 year olds from playing with men this season either.
So has the decision has been made and the 18s are back on the seniors draw?Personally i'm in favour of it (the younger our local premier comp gets the better for me) but can understand that recruiting for year 1 is going to be a shambles if it starts next year.After that it should be an easier process.

[Taffy]

How very deliberately obtuse of you so I will rephrase. Didn't the 18s only get moved into the youth structure 2 years ago with the introduction of the PYL? What is changing?

There was no youth structure before except they were all individual comps, just 18s played before reserves. The only change was that generally 18s now played at the end of the day and not before.

As someone on the NPL thread said, there is no reason why you just can't have U18s play before reserves so clubs can charge the parents a gate fee (that is one of the main reasons clubs gave to move it back) yet keep them within the PYL structure.

[Taffy]

Personally i'm in favour of it (the younger our local premier comp gets the better for me) but can understand that recruiting for year 1 is going to be a shambles if it starts next year.

How do you expect this to occur? It wasn't younger when 18s were playing before reserves all the time, why would it suddenly change now?


Younger players in the NPL will not improve because of this change. But it will change and we will see younger kids in is the change to the rules regarding 1st grade game day squads coming in which will require 2 U20s and 3 U23s listed on the 1st grade team sheet each game.

[sapdad]

How do you expect this to occur? It wasn't younger when 18s were playing before reserves all the time, why would it suddenly change now?


Younger players in the NPL will not improve because of this change. But it will change and we will see younger kids in is the change to the rules regarding 1st grade game day squads coming in which will require 2 U20s and 3 U23s listed on the 1st grade team sheet each game.

Its just an obsevation.As the youth programs get better from JDL up,eventually I hope that our best young kids are getting every chance they can get at the highest level available.If the experts think this is the way then so be it I support it.

[Taffy]

Its just an obsevation. As the youth programs get better from JDL up, eventually I hope that our best young kids are getting every chance they can get at the highest level available. If the experts think this is the way then so be it I support it.

Except the experts after 18 month review and consultation said the best way forward was how it is now.

It is only some clubs complaining about not getting as much money from canteens during U18s game as to why Northern are looking to put the U18s as an unimportant competition again that has no bearing on promotion and relegation for either youth or seniors.

[Hunter403]

I understand that the proposal was that 18s would play on senior game day but still be playing against their PYL opponent. So, theoretically, Belswans could be playing Olympic at home in seniors and their 18s could be playing Southy. The remaining PYL teams would also play Southy at Belswans but on the other day. It will the draw pretty complex.

[Taffy]

I understand that the proposal was that 18s would play on senior game day but still be playing against their PYL opponent. So, theoretically, Belswans could be playing Olympic at home in seniors and their 18s could be playing Southy. The remaining PYL teams would also play Southy at Belswans but on the other day. It will the draw pretty complex.

That would make the most sense, however, seems that won't be the case because it would make the draw too complex.

[Hunter403]

If they remove 18s from PYL, then what happens when a NL1 club, say Singo, plays the newly promoted ZL1 club (say the Suns) and they don't have an 18s?
The only solution, if they want 18s on senior match day, is to make a difficult draw work and keep the 18s in PYL.
Decoupling 18s could lead to, over time, there being multiple clubs in NL1 without 18s due to current ZL1 clubs earning promotion, and a dead 18s comp in NL1.

[Taffy]

If they remove 18s from PYL, then what happens when a NL1 club, say Singo, plays the newly promoted ZL1 club (say the Suns) and they don't have an 18s?
The only solution, if they want 18s on senior match day, is to make a difficult draw work and keep the 18s in PYL.
Decoupling 18s could lead to, over time, there being multiple clubs in NL1 without 18s due to current ZL1 clubs earning promotion, and a dead 18s comp in NL1.

All very good questions that I doubt Northern or the clubs including NL1 clubs that are pushing for this have even thought about. Just thinking about how to make more money. The NPL clubs couldn't give two shits about NL1 so of course they are in favour for it but Northern needs to govern over all the competitions and ensure they remain healthy regardless if a few clubs get upset that they can't charge the parents of 16 year olds money for coming to watch.

It will also lead a to lesser youth teams (U13s to U16s) as well as clubs that may get relegated will have to lose a 18s and then players leave because there is no 18s to go into. Already struggling to fill 24 youth grades, imagine what it will be like when clubs lose their youth players and then can't fill them again or hesitant to do the work to fill them again should they get promoted because if they are unable to stay up they go back to the same issues.

Unless they are going to make Zone Leagues have an U18s too.

[Reds Forever]

In my opinion, there are only 2 options that will work.

Either u18 remains with Youth set up as it is now.

Or

u18 decouples from Youth and is based on NPL and League 1 comps and is part of seniors again. This means Mid Coast and North Coast don't field teams in u18 which means they need to look for senior clubs in their region. Probably not a bad thing as it may allow for some focus on improvement in senior comps up north or teams from up north join NPL or League 1.

[Jardelsimage]

In my opinion, there are only 2 options that will work.

Either u18 remains with Youth set up as it is now.

Or

u18 decouples from Youth and is based on NPL and League 1 comps and is part of seniors again. This means Mid Coast and North Coast don't field teams in u18 which means they need to look for senior clubs in their region. Probably not a bad thing as it may allow for some focus on improvement in senior comps up north or teams from up north join NPL or League 1.

ground hog day

[northern_swan]

Probably not a bad thing as it may allow for some focus on improvement in senior comps up north or teams from up north join NPL or League 1.

Would this not mean that those clubs would need to come into the bottom ZL division & work their way up like Southern United are?

[Izzy]

If U18 decouples from youth I can guarantee that NCF and MNC will not join the NPL or League 1. It will certainly improve the local senior competitions considerably, as the quality has dropped off significantly since the introduction of the U18s in the PYL. I know a lot of the local NCF clubs would be very happy if the decoupling occurs, as they hate the fact that the best U17/U18 talent is not playing senior club football locally.

[Skimmer]

18s yawn. Its a babysitters club. Time for ressies by 18. Theres plenty of grades to choose from.

[Taffy]

If U18 decouples from youth I can guarantee that NCF and MNC will not join the NPL or League 1. It will certainly improve the local senior competitions considerably, as the quality has dropped off significantly since the introduction of the U18s in the PYL. I know a lot of the local NCF clubs would be very happy if the decoupling occurs, as they hate the fact that the best U17/U18 talent is not playing senior club football locally.

The plan will still be keeping NCF and MNC within U18s, so they will still play with Hunter Valley based U18s teams to play 2 games one for the "senior" match day and one when the other youth teams are playing these clubs with NCF and MNC 18s to be part of the NPL18s competition. So there won't be any change at all for the local comps.

Just goes to show though that if all these over 18s aren't of good quality if the quality of those local comps have dropped off that it was never good for those boys to stop playing at 16.

[Izzy]

Just goes to show though that if all these over 18s aren't of good quality if the quality of those local comps have dropped off that it was never good for those boys to stop playing at 16.

The NCF local seniors comp is really poor now unfortunately. I would wager that the U18s NCF PYL team would win the local seniors competition comfortably.

[Hunter403]

If the 18s go back to seniors and are decoupled....
2025
Lakes 18s will play in NL1 after coming last in group A
Belswans 18s will play in NPL after coming last in group B
A good chance that another NL1 team will come up to NPL and Adamstown going down. Westy, Kahibah and Toronto 18s were all in group C.
Player movement will be crazy.
Blow-outs will return in 18s games.
Whichever team comes up from ZL1 to NL1 won't have an 18s, so NL1 will be an 8 team comp unless Wallsend get a team together.

Going forward, if more ZL1 teams come up and more current NL1 teams get relegated over the next few years (and that is certainly possible), then the NL1 18s comp will shrink further.

If a current NPL team gets relegated into the NL1, how many of the kids they have developed will stay?

What is driving this concept? Canteen money? Doesn't matter which match day the 18s attend, they'll still spend the same. Or is it the idea of gate takings from 18s parents? Yeah, that will swell the coffers.

Carving the 18s out of PYL is crazy.

[sapdad]

Is there anyone that knows exactly what has been announced?Because I am very confused as there seems to be several different points of view on what is happening.If 18s have just been kept as part of youth premier league but playing on the same day as seniors surely that is the easiest way to do it?Im also very skeptical of it being about canteen money.

[Hunter403]

Like you, I was under the impression that it was going to be that way, but I've since been told by someone who was at the meeting, that the intent is decoupling.

[Skimmer]

If the 18s go back to seniors and are decoupled....
2025
Lakes 18s will play in NL1 after coming last in group A
Belswans 18s will play in NPL after coming last in group B
A good chance that another NL1 team will come up to NPL and Adamstown going down. Westy, Kahibah and Toronto 18s were all in group C.
Player movement will be crazy.
Blow-outs will return in 18s games.
Whichever team comes up from ZL1 to NL1 won't have an 18s, so NL1 will be an 8 team comp unless Wallsend get a team together.

Going forward, if more ZL1 teams come up and more current NL1 teams get relegated over the next few years (and that is certainly possible), then the NL1 18s comp will shrink further.

If a current NPL team gets relegated into the NL1, how many of the kids they have developed will stay?

What is driving this concept? Canteen money? Doesn't matter which match day the 18s attend, they'll still spend the same. Or is it the idea of gate takings from 18s parents? Yeah, that will swell the coffers.

Carving the 18s out of PYL is crazy.

Called opportunity. Developed players? They develop from many clubs. The sky wont fall in, never has.
Everyone will adapt to the changes cryfest or not. Maybe except NC. Sounds like theyll walk into senior clubs up there

[plague]

Hi everyone. Just my yearly post wishing all your kids well if they are involved in finals.


And also to remind the parents that's it not about them. So please just shut up and let the kids play.


cheers,
plague.

[Reds Forever]

I do know that the referee department was against u18 going to Youth when it happened. Possibly u18 going back to seniors is not just about canteens but logistics with referee appointments as well as catch up games. Easier to arrange 4 youth games mid week then 5. Also 5 games on Youth days must be a strain on club volunteers as it's a bloody long day.

[JustMe]

I do know that the referee department was against u18 going to Youth when it happened. Possibly u18 going back to seniors is not just about canteens but logistics with referee appointments as well as catch up games. Easier to arrange 4 youth games mid week then 5. Also 5 games on Youth days must be a strain on club volunteers as it's a bloody long day.

fair call. plus a few of the 18s need beers after after the game. get back to seniors already

[Jim]

Hi everyone. Just my yearly post wishing all your kids well if they are involved in finals.
And also to remind the parents that's it not about them. So please just shut up and let the kids play.
cheers,
plague.

How bout you just shutup as well. We dont need capt dkhead obvious here either

[plague]

How bout you just shutup as well. We dont need capt dkhead obvious here either

Dear Jim please hurry up and accept my friend request on Facebook I want to see all those photos of the trophies.

cheers,
plague.

[plague]

We dont need capt dkhead obvious here either

On the contrary, foz was a better place when the captain roamed the halls.

Hope him(?) and the good member are enjoying the sabbatical.


In summary:
More captain, less gym.


cheers,
plague.

[Taffy]

If the 18s go back to seniors and are decoupled....
2025
Lakes 18s will play in NL1 after coming last in group A
Belswans 18s will play in NPL after coming last in group B
A good chance that another NL1 team will come up to NPL and Adamstown going down. Westy, Kahibah and Toronto 18s were all in group C.
Player movement will be crazy.
Blow-outs will return in 18s games.
Whichever team comes up from ZL1 to NL1 won't have an 18s, so NL1 will be an 8 team comp unless Wallsend get a team together.

Going forward, if more ZL1 teams come up and more current NL1 teams get relegated over the next few years (and that is certainly possible), then the NL1 18s comp will shrink further.

Yep something I doubt Northern has even thought about and the clubs particuarly NPL clubs couldn't give two shits about having a healthy competition.


If a current NPL team gets relegated into the NL1, how many of the kids they have developed will stay?

Probably very little so now Northern aren't encouraging player development into the senior ranks


What is driving this concept? Canteen money? Doesn't matter which match day the 18s attend, they'll still spend the same Or is it the idea of gate takings from 18s parents? Yeah, that will swell the coffers.

Both those reasons are exactly why the clubs are telling Northern it needs to change. Is Northern's aim to help clubs fleece parents or is it to build up the game in Northern NSW?


Carving the 18s out of PYL is crazy.

Northern have come up with some dumb ideas in the past and this is going to be the dumbest idea in their history

[Taffy]

Is there anyone that knows exactly what has been announced?Because I am very confused as there seems to be several different points of view on what is happening.If 18s have just been kept as part of youth premier league but playing on the same day as seniors surely that is the easiest way to do it?Im also very skeptical of it being about canteen money.

That should be the way it is just play as many as possible on senior match days, that way the clubs will still make some money, which is the number 1 reason they are giving as to why it needs to go back

[Taffy]

fair call. plus a few of the 18s need beers after after the game. get back to seniors already

Yeah we do need to sell these 16 year olds beers. Most of the U18s in the competition aren't turning 18 or 18, by that point most are playing actual seniors.

[WOW2.0]

Yeah we do need to sell these 16 year olds beers. Most of the U18s in the competition aren't turning 18 or 18, by that point most are playing actual seniors.

Beer sales to parents perhaps.
(As well as the gate fees)

Would be nice if Northern put some "science" behind the decisions they make. The rate of change is too high, for no obvious benefit case ever being made.

[Addios]

Beer sales to parents perhaps.
(As well as the gate fees)

Would be nice if Northern put some "science" behind the decisions they make. The rate of change is too high, for no obvious benefit case ever being made.

Well said.

[Taffy]

Beer sales to parents perhaps.
(As well as the gate fees)

Would be nice if Northern put some "science" behind the decisions they make. The rate of change is too high, for no obvious benefit case ever being made.

They put behind a lot of science for the current set up because they spent 18 months going over it, this decision is purely because clubs want to make an extra couple hundred dollars on game day. Probably to help their $180k/year player budget. The takings for the year might cover some one's match payment for a couple games.

[Addios]

Yeah we do need to sell these 16 year olds beers. Most of the U18s in the competition aren't turning 18 or 18, by that point most are playing actual seniors.

better than the party tabs and vapes theyre already on. get with the times dude.

I do agree 18s should be all about 16/17yos transitioning

[outsider]

Beer sales to parents perhaps.
(As well as the gate fees)

Would be nice if Northern put some "science" behind the decisions they make. The rate of change is too high, for no obvious benefit case ever being made.

Wont be able to start the beer sales until after the under 18 game

[Box2Box]

If NNSW are serious about youth development they need to significantly increase the amount of games played for the season. They seriously dropped the ball this year.
.
My son played 25 games last year (14 in phase 1, 7 in phase 2, 2 in the cup, 2 in the finals)

This season a disappointing 16 (10 in phase 1, 6 in phase 2, no cup as they forfeited and they didnt make semis)

Not sure what happened with the cup comp this year, they must have scrapped it once the rain hit and washed out too many league games.

But seriously they need to play 11 games in phase 1 to sort out the three divisions and then play a genuine home and away phase 2 for 14 games (25 league games total). Then you have your cup and finals you are starting to get up near 30 games for the year.

16 games for a supposed elite competition is having a laugh.

[WOW2.0]

Absolutely Box2Box...and a solution is so simple

Home and away phase 2

The thought of playing finals off of 5-6 games is ridiculous

Disappointed the Cup was quietly abandoned too...hopefully back for next season (with less forfeits)

[sapdad]

Disappointed the Cup was quietly abandoned too...hopefully back for next season (with less forfeits)

I would like to see the cup kept but it needs fixing.They should get rid of NIAS/Mid Coast and NCF (from the cup) if they get washed out trying to reschedule games is really unfair to all teams.They should make room for more community teams and let them play each other in round 1 maybe give Div A teams a 1st round bye.Having a club like Jaffas or Magic playing a community team round 1 is pretty pointless for everyone concerned.Theres enough interest to make it fun but a bit more thought wouldnt go astray.

[Izzy]

I would like to see the cup kept but it needs fixing.They should get rid of NIAS/Mid Coast and NCF (from the cup) if they get washed out trying to reschedule games is really unfair to all teams.They should make room for more community teams and let them play each other in round 1 maybe give Div A teams a 1st round bye.Having a club like Jaffas or Magic playing a community team round 1 is pretty pointless for everyone concerned.Theres enough interest to make it fun but a bit more thought wouldnt go astray.

I would get rid of the cup and focus on home and away for phase 2. That is 25 games not including finals, which is a good number of games. Way too many of the cup games are so one sided anyways. We all love the idea of a lower tier club beating a div 1 team, but it is so rare in junior football. Far more likely of a 6+ goal flogging which helps no-one.

[Addios]

I would get rid of the cup and focus on home and away for phase 2. That is 25 games not including finals, which is a good number of games. Way too many of the cup games are so one sided anyways. We all love the idea of a lower tier club beating a div 1 team, but it is so rare in junior football. Far more likely of a 6+ goal flogging which helps no-one.

for sure. another for home away phase 2

[WOW2.0]

I would like to see the cup kept but it needs fixing.They should get rid of NIAS/Mid Coast and NCF (from the cup) if they get washed out trying to reschedule games is really unfair to all teams.They should make room for more community teams and let them play each other in round 1 maybe give Div A teams a 1st round bye.Having a club like Jaffas or Magic playing a community team round 1 is pretty pointless for everyone concerned.Theres enough interest to make it fun but a bit more thought wouldnt go astray.

Fair assessment and approach

Although, it's a good challenge for those teams to set up a very strong defensive structure (if approached the right way)...introduces those kids to a higher level of football too. And gives more freedom to the kids in the stronger teams to experiment and explore.

(Spend all this effort to teach kids all these skills and then rouse on them for having a dribble and trying to take someone on)

So I haven't seen it as completely negative...maybe let them play a round against each other first though...good suggestion.

I do note that NIAS put in a very good showing against Jaffas this season in the cup game (13s)...don't recall if it was a 2-1 or went to pens, but was very close from what I heard...Jaffas 13s are now in the Div 1 GF...

It's a long way to travel those Coffs Harbour and Tamworth games! (How those parents do it every 2nd week is beyond me...very dedicated!)

[Imyourhero]

Phase 2 should be reset to zero points as well to actually ensure competitive match play. Noticed those few teams who survive phase 1 only to be 15+ points behind with next to no chance of clawing their way back for finals. This may also prevent kids from jumping ship mid season.

[Taffy]

Phase 2 should be reset to zero points as well to actually ensure competitive match play. Noticed those few teams who survive phase 1 only to be 15+ points behind with next to no chance of clawing their way back for finals. This may also prevent kids from jumping ship mid season.

I recently read Football SA who are changing for next year to follow our model with some differences. They have changed registration rules that you can only play for one Junior Premier League club per season, as soon as you play one competition match for a club and deregister and go to another club you can't play JPL only in community teams.

So Northern can change the rules if they want to.

[sapdad]

Phase 2 should be reset to zero points as well to actually ensure competitive match play. Noticed those few teams who survive phase 1 only to be 15+ points behind with next to no chance of clawing their way back for finals. This may also prevent kids from jumping ship mid season.

I can see reasons why it could be reset but I dont agree it should.Div A should be rewarding premiers over the complete season.If the new registration rules that were just discussed come to into the program then that should eliminate most of the mid season recruiting.I wouldnt mind seeing an exception for any long term injuries to goalies though,its a hard position to play up in at these ages.

[Taffy]

If the new registration rules that were just discussed come to into the program then that should eliminate most of the mid season recruiting.

What are the new registration rules?


I wouldnt mind seeing an exception for any long term injuries to goalies though,its a hard position to play up in at these ages.

What exception would you be suggesting?

[sapdad]

What are the new registration rules?



What exception would you be suggesting?

I was talking about the SA rules you posted about.I know they arent part of our program yet but it does seem a fairly easy way to prevent mid season recruiting.Id like to see clubs able to sign a goalie if theirs has a long term injury.In the 13s and 14s age group especially the physical difference between kids is pretty big and asking young ones to play up for an extended period isnt great.Ive seen JDL kids stepping up into 13s this year and its pretty scary how small they are.If clubs have legitiate long term injuries to keepers then bringing in an age appropriate one seems fairer to me.

[Izzy]

I recently read Football SA who are changing for next year to follow our model with some differences. They have changed registration rules that you can only play for one Junior Premier League club per season, as soon as you play one competition match for a club and deregister and go to another club you can't play JPL only in community teams.

So Northern can change the rules if they want to.

I agree with this, or at the very least have an earlier deadline day. I see in the U15s that a team recruited in June a couple of very good players from Weston Workers when it was clear Workers were going to be relegated. It turned WW from a team doing very well in the U15s Div 1 to a team that missed the finals in Div 2. It fails the pub test for me.

As for the GK exception, I see sapdads point, but there are already rules in place for GK to play down if required due to injuries/unavailability.

[Taffy]

I was talking about the SA rules you posted about.I know they arent part of our program yet but it does seem a fairly easy way to prevent mid season recruiting.Id like to see clubs able to sign a goalie if theirs has a long term injury.In the 13s and 14s age group especially the physical difference between kids is pretty big and asking young ones to play up for an extended period isnt great.Ive seen JDL kids stepping up into 13s this year and its pretty scary how small they are.If clubs have legitiate long term injuries to keepers then bringing in an age appropriate one seems fairer to me.

Oh right I thought you meant Northern were bringing in some rules.

As for goalkeepers, these rules already exist, not just for U13s but also for all age groups. There were clubs this year dropping GKs from 14s and 15s into the year below when their current keeper was injured.

I can see the argument for U14s to drop into U13s but not for older age groups.

[WOW2.0]

I recently read Football SA who are changing for next year to follow our model with some differences. They have changed registration rules that you can only play for one Junior Premier League club per season, as soon as you play one competition match for a club and deregister and go to another club you can't play JPL only in community teams.

So Northern can change the rules if they want to.

What happens if your parents move and you have to move

Not sure how geographically dispersed their catchment is...but thinking of FNSW imagine if you parents moved from Newcastle to Wollongong, and somehow you were expected to still play and train for Newcastle or be forced to play the "lowest quality" football (community) instead?

They need to stop and think about these things a bit

[WOW2.0]

I agree with this, or at the very least have an earlier deadline day. I see in the U15s that a team recruited in June a couple of very good players from Weston Workers when it was clear Workers were going to be relegated. It turned WW from a team doing very well in the U15s Div 1 to a team that missed the finals in Div 2. It fails the pub test for me.

Promotion and relegation by team would stop those kids and parents feeling like they had to do something. That they were wasting a year of development potential (limited as it all is in NNSW as it is, with our shitty 16-18 rounds...and meaningless finals after just 6-5 matches in Div 2 and 3...poor kids!)

[Taffy]

What happens if your parents move and you have to move

Not sure how geographically dispersed their catchment is...but thinking of FNSW imagine if you parents moved from Newcastle to Wollongong, and somehow you were expected to still play and train for Newcastle or be forced to play the "lowest quality" football (community) instead?

They need to stop and think about these things a bit

Think you will find that Adelaide is more dispersed than the Hunter Valley ignoring regional teams and apparently they spent 2 years to come up with the plan.

FNSW rules are different to NNSWF rules so obviously registration in two different federations don't carry over.

Clearly if parents are happy to leave Weston to play for Lambton then the travel distance isn't an issue.

[Taffy]

Promotion and relegation by team would stop those kids and parents feeling like they had to do something. That they were wasting a year of development potential (limited as it all is in NNSW as it is, with our shitty 16-18 rounds...and meaningless finals after just 6-5 matches in Div 2 and 3...poor kids!)

Development won't count for anything if they take 18s out of PYL anyway.

[WOW2.0]

Development won't count for anything if they take 18s out of PYL anyway.

I've heard from a reasonably reliable source that is indeed going to happen, that it has already been communicated to clubs.

That being a crappy decision doesn't make the even worse one of a 16-18 game season less shitty though!!!

....noteworthy...
Without 18s
Phase 1 Div B teams that stayed up would have seen NIAS in place of Rosebuds (NIAS would have finished 2nd and been playing for a spot in Div 1)

In Div A phase 1, Weston would have stayed up, and Maitland down...and I recently published what the club championship in Phase 2 would have looked like

We have just seen anecdotal discussion how relegation ripped apart the successful teams from Weston, who had their best poached away once the drop became clear...clear wide reaching consequences of this pro/rel methodology (good teams punished through club averages, now a subtle manipulation of excluding 18s from PYLB, etc)

Hoping Northern pays some attention and introduces pro/real by team, and increases the tiny season at the very least

[Taffy]

That being a crappy decision doesn't make the even worse one of a 16-18 game season less shitty though!!!

Will be even less for the NL1 18s teams next year. Adamstown, Charlestown, Belswans, all teams that finished in the bottom 4 will go up, and imagine how that is going to be. Even worse if Adamstown come down and it is West Wallsend (majority of the 18s turned 18 this year), Kahibah, or Stags that go up.

This leaves 7 teams in the competition for U18s in NL1, so 16 games maximum because there won't be any cup games, heaps of Byes, unless Wallsend and Dudley manage to find 18s and it will only get worse as clubs who get promoted may not want to or be unable to get an U18s side. If a current team gets relegated and have to lose their 18s they may end up dropping Youth too particularly if they are unable to go straight up as they struggle to attract players who don't want to play for a club that has no U18s, so will be even less games for Div 2 and for NL1 18s.

But why would Northern care about their competitions and growing and keeping them healthy, they just want to help NPL clubs make money money off parents so they can over pay players.


We have just seen anecdotal discussion how relegation ripped apart the successful teams from Weston, who had their best poached away once the drop became clear...clear wide reaching consequences of this pro/rel methodology (good teams punished through club averages, now a subtle manipulation of excluding 18s from PYLB, etc)

I would argue that this forces the clubs to care about the full program and put an effort in to develop all teams, got a good 15s, well focus on improving all your other teams as well. Of course this won't mean jack shit if 18s get taken out of PYL, a club could be in NPL, and doesn't matter if their PYL teams are in Div 2 and League C, they will be able to attract and recruit decent players into the U18s because their 1st grade is doing well, while an NPL club that just got relegated may see clubs now losing a whole lot of U18s that they did develop.

Worse losing a bunch of kids you've worked with for 4 years at 16 years old because of how 1st grade went.

[sapdad]

I've heard from a reasonably reliable source that is indeed going to happen, that it has already been communicated to clubs.

That being a crappy decision doesn't make the even worse one of a 16-18 game season less shitty though!!!

....noteworthy...
Without 18s
Phase 1 Div B teams that stayed up would have seen NIAS in place of Rosebuds (NIAS would have finished 2nd and been playing for a spot in Div 1)

In Div A phase 1, Weston would have stayed up, and Maitland down...and I recently published what the club championship in Phase 2 would have looked like

We have just seen anecdotal discussion how relegation ripped apart the successful teams from Weston, who had their best poached away once the drop became clear...clear wide reaching consequences of this pro/rel methodology (good teams punished through club averages, now a subtle manipulation of excluding 18s from PYLB, etc)

Hoping Northern pays some attention and introduces pro/real by team, and increases the tiny season at the very least

Without going over this again,I would be interested to hear how you would grade 13s every year.

[WOW2.0]

Without going over this again,I would be interested to hear how you would grade 13s every year.

First 11 games

As we've all settled in the maximum number of season games is, grading phase and then a full H/A season in groups of 8 (in our infinite wisdom and ability to influence Northern at all 🤪)

That would make the most sense.

Grading games could be based off the success of last season's 13s as a top of the head suggestion.

(Or make an assessment from the u12s SAP/JDL unrecorded/unpublished results.) :)

[WOW2.0]

I would argue that this forces the clubs to care about the full program and put an effort in to develop all teams, got a good 15s, well focus on improving all your other teams as well. Of course this won't mean jack shit if 18s get taken out of PYL, a club could be in NPL, and doesn't matter if their PYL teams are in Div 2 and League C, they will be able to attract and recruit decent players into the U18s because their 1st grade is doing well, while an NPL club that just got relegated may see clubs now losing a whole lot of U18s that they did develop.

Worse losing a bunch of kids you've worked with for 4 years at 16 years old because of how 1st grade went.

I'm not sure a poor average has much to do with the club not caring about all the age groups in favour of the 1 or 2 successful teams...so many factors can be at play, available talent within the team, injuries, team morale, etc.

I think it's nearly impossible to grow out of a div 2 or 3 status if they can't be graded by team...(The opportunity to grow a brand of "success" out of the squads you are getting right) short of an absolutely ruthless recruitment strategy (like Richard Hartley, or Lakes has done (Lakes also using very positive messaging around their overall direction)

[sapdad]

First 11 games

As we've all settled in the maximum number of season games is, grading phase and then a full H/A season in groups of 8 (in our infinite wisdom and ability to influence Northern at all 🤪)

That would make the most sense.

Grading games could be based off the success of last season's 13s as a top of the head suggestion.

(Or make an assessment from the u12s SAP/JDL unrecorded/unpublished results.) :)

So this is where your system falls apart.Theres (hopefully) 24 under 13s teams each year.11 games,no matter how you assign them isnt an even playing field.Making an assessment based on the previous years 13s is essentially what they do now and you dont think the current system is fair.Judging off JDL results is pointless and undermines the point of JDL.Plus most clubs have 22/24 kids in 12s JDL they will get whittled down to 15/16 for under 13s.You just got finished telling us that Weston lost a few players and were way worse off but cutting between 6-8 kids per club is a bigger drop in numbers how do we know they will be the same level as JDL 12s?The answer is we dont,and it shows again that while the pursuit of ultimate fairness should be praised,this system by team every year just doesnt make things any fairer that the current one while adding just as many problems if not more.

[Taffy]

I'm not sure a poor average has much to do with the club not caring about all the age groups in favour of the 1 or 2 successful teams...so many factors can be at play, available talent within the team, injuries, team morale, etc.[/QUOTES]

Clubs and TDs forced to put together a strong program across all of youth.

[QUOTE]I think it's nearly impossible to grow out of a div 2 or 3 status if they can't be graded by team...

More difficult not impossible, Northern's changes are going to make it much harder of course.


Lakes has done (Lakes also using very positive messaging around their overall direction)

The irony is Lakes did a good job and now will have the specter of losing 16 year olds because adults didn't play well. Rather than able to bring more talented kids into their reserves and first grade.

[WOW2.0]

So this is where your system falls apart.Theres (hopefully) 24 under 13s teams each year.11 games,no matter how you assign them isnt an even playing field.Making an assessment based on the previous years 13s is essentially what they do now and you dont think the current system is fair.Judging off JDL results is pointless and undermines the point of JDL.Plus most clubs have 22/24 kids in 12s JDL they will get whittled down to 15/16 for under 13s.You just got finished telling us that Weston lost a few players and were way worse off but cutting between 6-8 kids per club is a bigger drop in numbers how do we know they will be the same level as JDL 12s?The answer is we dont,and it shows again that while the pursuit of ultimate fairness should be praised,this system by team every year just doesnt make things any fairer that the current one while adding just as many problems if not more.


Firstly, they are all just suggestions mate
(Rest assured I have no influence with Northern)

But to your points, it is not impossible to grade like for like out of the season of SAP/JDL games, without ruining what is the purpose of this existing system (I have read through the entire curriculum, and spoken to Ron Smith who ran the much loved AIS system, and was instrumental in the documentation of the curriculum?this will not impact in any meaningful way, I assure you).

I don?t think most teams have 2 JDL teams.
I think you'll find even fewer clubs have 2 JDL teams moving forward due to the new rating system that is landing next season. I know one ?large? club has already advised their parents that they will only be in a position to carry through 1 JDL team now, as they won't be able to meet the requirements for gold status of their program (the status that allows two JDL teams per age/gender group).

I don?t get your point re: Weston?so now any talented kids they have will have to run away earlier, because those coming into 13s know there is a risk they?ll spend half the year in tier 2 (through absolutely no fault of their own)?so just fodder for poaching!

It absolutely makes things fairer, and ensures the best possible standard of matches at the various levels, like for like. Your criticism that it is unfair for 13s (because, ?how do you judge their appropriate level?), but right now we have a system that is unfair for many age groups who have found themselves shifted into Division 2 and 3, and indeed for the very poor performers in Div 1 who have had an absolutely terrible year!

[sapdad]

I don?t get your point re: Weston?so now any talented kids they have will have to run away earlier, because those coming into 13s know there is a risk they?ll spend half the year in tier 2 (through absolutely no fault of their own)?so just fodder for poaching!


My point is that Weston team went from top 6 in Div A, to being put in Div 2 but not even making the semis in Div 2 despite being the highest ranked team after phase 1.If the main reason for that was because a couple of kids moved then how good a team were they and where do they deserve to be graded next year?If your team only succeeds because of a couple of players then every team is open to the same thing happening every year which makes grading by teams just as open to flaws as keeping clubs as one group.How the hell do you even begin to grade them fairly next year?

[djjones]

Geez i could grade clubs based on the 12s JDL form. Then the 1st round would sort it out properly.
I prefer this newer system over the old system. But I'd prefer to have each team in their correct grade as opposed to current club grading.
If one team was in A then that could incentivise other players to stay and try to get other teams in to the As as well.
On the neg the fixtures then becomes quite complex.

[WOW2.0]

My point is that Weston team went from top 6 in Div A, to being put in Div 2 but not even making the semis in Div 2 despite being the highest ranked team after phase 1.If the main reason for that was because a couple of kids moved then how good a team were they and where do they deserve to be graded next year?If your team only succeeds because of a couple of players then every team is open to the same thing happening every year which makes grading by teams just as open to flaws as keeping clubs as one group.How the hell do you even begin to grade them fairly next year?

As others pointed out, the player departure started the moment they realised the cub would not hold onto a div.1 spot

So if course they didn't do well in phase 2

You'll find that the relative success of all youth teams comes down to the particular dynamism of just a few key players...supported by, hopefully for that team, a relatively "high" average standard of the rest of the squad

This suggestion helps to prevent clubs being wholly targeted for poaching across the board...those quality teams can then build upon their success and perhaps manage to lure other talented players

[sapdad]

As others pointed out, the player departure started the moment they realised the cub would not hold onto a div.1 spot


Thats not exactly how it went down.I belive the coach also left around that time so theres more to it that is better left in the past.As for poaching,its one thing for clubs to ask after players,its entirely up to the player (and usually parents) to actually effect the move.To grade by team would require all teams to have rosters sorted by end of current season so NNSW can then assess and try to being to get a draw done.If anything in the past can tell us,its that a lot of stuff can happen between now and March kickoff.

[WOW2.0]

Thats not exactly how it went down.I belive the coach also left around that time so theres more to it that is better left in the past.As for poaching,its one thing for clubs to ask after players,its entirely up to the player (and usually parents) to actually effect the move.To grade by team would require all teams to have rosters sorted by end of current season so NNSW can then assess and try to being to get a draw done.If anything in the past can tell us,its that a lot of stuff can happen between now and March kickoff.

I don't know how it went down, but others have given their observations

But for you to consider, the coach leaving can be for the same reason, remember that in most instances the coach will be a dad of one of the players. Only two clubs that I am aware of have a policy that the coach cannot be a dad, that's Jaffas and Olympic (I believe Charlestown is trying to do this too, but two coaches are in fact there coaching their sons)...so it's conceivable that the dad left, because he took his son out, to, just like the others pursue what he believed to be greener pastures.

Most rosters are all but finalised well before the end of the year (some clubs have it sorted by mid season with their aggressive recruitment!)...typically a rentention letter, it letter of offer will go out, and you'll be asked to pay a deposit ($500 deposit at one club we've recently been talking about)...of course, people can change their minds, but, more or less set already

[Oldy]

Most rosters are all but finalised well before the end of the year (some clubs have it sorted by mid season with their aggressive recruitment!)...typically a rentention letter, it letter of offer will go out, and you'll be asked to pay a deposit ($500 deposit at one club we've recently been talking about)...of course, people can change their minds, but, more or less set already

Seriously, Whats all the fuss about. NPL youth isnt special. No one is going professional. Just pick a good coach and club that is close by that suits your kid. The team will be in a division with a decent chance for finals. I had a kid that went fringe NSL and in the end well done but no big deal and hardly worth the effort.
The wannabe egos in this town is a joke. From the coaches who arent very good, to parents who think their precious kids are going pro, to the kids themselves who really cbf. I love the kids who take the piss on the field and have fun. Some of those have some talent as well.

[ForeverRed]

Seriously, Whats all the fuss about. NPL youth isnt special. No one is going professional. Just pick a good coach and club that is close by that suits your kid. The team will be in a division with a decent chance for finals. I had a kid that went fringe NSL and in the end well done but no big deal and hardly worth the effort.
The wannabe egos in this town is a joke. From the coaches who arent very good, to parents who think their precious kids are going pro, to the kids themselves who really cbf. I love the kids who take the piss on the field and have fun. Some of those have some talent as well.

👏👏👏👏

[WOW2.0]

Seriously, Whats all the fuss about. NPL youth isnt special. No one is going professional. Just pick a good coach and club that is close by that suits your kid. The team will be in a division with a decent chance for finals. I had a kid that went fringe NSL and in the end well done but no big deal and hardly worth the effort.
The wannabe egos in this town is a joke. From the coaches who arent very good, to parents who think their precious kids are going pro, to the kids themselves who really cbf. I love the kids who take the piss on the field and have fun. Some of those have some talent as well.

Yet, we have had professionals come out of the system...your statement is wrong

As posted on the Jets Youth section, the average age of the Socceroos (at the Qatar WC) having entered a professional academy was 15.2 years of age...don't be bitter, who are any of us to stand in any one's dream...let's just ensure we have a system that maximises the opportunity for those dreams to ever be realised.

No more loser mentality

[Taffy]

Anyone heard outcomes from last night's meeting? My contact(s) haven't got back to me.


Only two clubs that I am aware of have a policy that the coach cannot be a dad, that's Jaffas and Olympic

I understand you can add South Cardiff to that list as well.

[Izzy]

Yet, we have had professionals come out of the system...your statement is wrong

As posted on the Jets Youth section, the average age of the Socceroos (at the Qatar WC) having entered a professional academy was 15.2 years of age...don't be bitter, who are any of us to stand in any one's dream...let's just ensure we have a system that maximises the opportunity for those dreams to ever be realised.

No more loser mentality

This. My son plays in a Div 1 PYL team and absolutely loves it. He enjoys the higher level training and intensity of the games, but he is acutely aware that he is nowhere near the level to play professionally one day. His goals are far more modest and achievable. If he goes onto greater things, well good for him. He's happy and has a focus, rather than vaping with his mates and getting into trouble.

There was a kid from the NCF U16s who started for the Joey's on the recent tour to the Pacific Islands. Who knows if he will go on to play professionally one day, but what he has done so far is a bloody good start.

[sapdad]

Seriously, Whats all the fuss about. NPL youth isnt special. No one is going professional. Just pick a good coach and club that is close by that suits your kid. The team will be in a division with a decent chance for finals. I had a kid that went fringe NSL and in the end well done but no big deal and hardly worth the effort.
The wannabe egos in this town is a joke. From the coaches who arent very good, to parents who think their precious kids are going pro, to the kids themselves who really cbf. I love the kids who take the piss on the field and have fun. Some of those have some talent as well.

Here comes the same old strawman argument again.Feel free to go back through this thread and quote how many times someone on here is posting about their kid being the next Messi or how NPL=EPL.Majority of parents on here just discuss stuff that is going on with their kids as they enjoy their sport.The problem is some people in the sport (adults) are the ones who take it too seriously so by bringing these issues out into the light maybe the kids will get a better experience from it.Sport in whatever form is a massive part of our kids lives and one we are very lucky to have in a country like Australia.But having a bit of discussion about how the sausage is made isnt the problem people like you are making it out to be.

[Oldy]

Here comes the same old strawman argument again.Feel free to go back through this thread and quote how many times someone on here is posting about their kid being the next Messi or how NPL=EPL.Majority of parents on here just discuss stuff that is going on with their kids as they enjoy their sport.The problem is some people in the sport (adults) are the ones who take it too seriously so by bringing these issues out into the light maybe the kids will get a better experience from it.Sport in whatever form is a massive part of our kids lives and one we are very lucky to have in a country like Australia.But having a bit of discussion about how the sausage is made isnt the problem people like you are making it out to be.

Its a pity you cant handle or accept others valid opinions. But what I stated is true as the day is long. This happens alot in our game in this town. Probably shows that you're one of the deluded fools in this game. Of course the talk about the game and how it runs it is important and in your narrow view the only important thing, but to state how many people see and approach the game here is also important to get the big picture. And more importantly accepting the elephant in the room. Ok back to your throne.

[sapdad]

Its a pity you cant handle or accept others valid opinions. But what I stated is true as the day is long. This happens alot in our game in this town. Probably shows that you're one of the deluded fools in this game. Of course the talk about the game and how it runs it is important and in your narrow view the only important thing, but to state how many people see and approach the game here is also important to get the big picture. And more importantly accepting the elephant in the room. Ok back to your throne.

Thanks for confirming that my post was indeed correct and that we arent talking about anything you have accused us of.Also,the defence of "trust me bro" is lame.The elephant you are looking for seems to be in a completely different room to this one so feel free to go look for it elsewhere.

[WOW2.0]

Its a pity you cant handle or accept others valid opinions. But what I stated is true as the day is long. This happens alot in our game in this town. Probably shows that you're one of the deluded fools in this game. Of course the talk about the game and how it runs it is important and in your narrow view the only important thing, but to state how many people see and approach the game here is also important to get the big picture. And more importantly accepting the elephant in the room. Ok back to your throne.

But what you said is objectively false...we have had professional l players come through our NPL.

There are future Socceroos playing in youth NPL, not in academy set ups (across the country) right now...noting again, the median age that the Qatar Socceroos entered professional club academies is 15.2...

But also, is a full professional the only mark of success, I don't feel it is.

Would playing more games, at a higher standard improve the chances of achieving "success" (however defined) be a benefit...yes

You have not made a strong case for any claim...but do agree, some parents take it far too seriously though

[Addios]

Seriously, Whats all the fuss about. NPL youth isnt special. No one is going professional. Just pick a good coach and club that is close by that suits your kid. The team will be in a division with a decent chance for finals. I had a kid that went fringe NSL and in the end well done but no big deal and hardly worth the effort.
The wannabe egos in this town is a joke. From the coaches who arent very good, to parents who think their precious kids are going pro, to the kids themselves who really cbf. I love the kids who take the piss on the field and have fun. Some of those have some talent as well.

for sure.
But dont expect to get many onhere to admit to it. Their the ones that are stuck in the false elite bubble.
Of course not all think this way but the talk about kids missing out on NPL clubs, upset for getting cut, changing for a higher division mid season shows evidence you are correct.
Its an alround laugh.

[Addios]

Would playing more games, at a higher standard improve the chances of achieving "success" (however defined) be a benefit...yes

You have not made a strong case for any claim...but do agree, some parents take it far too seriously though

How many playing from here have made it through though? We're extremely lucky to get to Aleague. There has been some excellent players who didnt bother going further.

Technically lots of improvement over the last 20 years in youth but also fees that are too high and a cultutre from JDL through to NPL youth that can be toxic.

[WOW2.0]

How many playing from here have made it through though? We're extremely lucky to get to Aleague. There has been some excellent players who didnt bother going further.

Technically lots of improvement over the last 20 years in youth but also fees that are too high and a cultutre from JDL through to NPL youth that can be toxic.

Quick few off the top of my head from our region

Jason Hoffman
Nigel Boogaard
Archie Goodwin
Andrew Hoole
Ben Kantarovski
Jobe Wheelhouse
Daniel McBreen
Taylor Reegan
Chuck in Angus Thurgate, too

All achieved professional status as footballers, have, or continue to earn a living through football, etc

Getting to the A-League is a measure of success, don't you agree?

There are of course lots of talented players who don't go on...it's a low percentage who will (with arguably lots of luck and timing required)...that doesn't take away from the potential.

Yes, toxic people can, and are, involved...there are toxic people in any walk of life...doesn't stop people pursing various other careers, does it

[mge61]

Do Musialik, Holland and Hearfield qualify. Muragis also starting to make inroads.

[WOW2.0]

Worth also pointing out that our local Sports High was just crowned Champions in the Combined High School State Cup (Puma Cup) for senior school aged players...having just bested Westfield Sports High 3-0 this week

Noting Westfield Sports High has such names as Harry Kewell, Milos Degenik, Alex Brosque, Connor Chapman, David Carney, Ellie Carpenter, Alanna Kennedy, the Ibinis and many others to have come out of their school's football program.

The school's year 7s went down earlier this year and towelled up the other sports highs too (both boys and girls winning their events comprehensively)

Our region is ripe...let's try and ensure we have a system that helps elevate, rather than stifle

[Retired01]

Quick few off the top of my head from our region

Jason Hoffman
Nigel Boogaard
Archie Goodwin
Andrew Hoole
Ben Kantarovski
Jobe Wheelhouse
Daniel McBreen
Taylor Reegan
Chuck in Angus Thurgate, too

All achieved professional status as footballers, have, or continue to earn a living through football, etc

Getting to the A-League is a measure of success, don't you agree?

There are of course lots of talented players who don't go on...it's a low percentage who will (with arguably lots of luck and timing required)...that doesn't take away from the potential.

Yes, toxic people can, and are, involved...there are toxic people in any walk of life...doesn't stop people pursing various other careers, does it


Nice list but name one of them who went through an academy as they were all selected from club land at later ages.

[WOW2.0]

Nice list but name one of them who went through an academy as they were all selected from club land at later ages.

Pretty sure that aligns with my earlier point, re median age of that the Qatar Socceroos entered academies.

But obviously Archie Goodwin was in the Jets academy

The point of this list is to show, Newcastle isn't, doesn't have to be considered a footballing wasteland that other's have pushed

[Hunter403]

Group C Grand Final Results
13 Toronto 3 def NIAS 2
14 Kahibah 5 def Cessnock 1
15 Kahibah 3 def Westy 0
16 Kahibah 3 def NIAS 2
18 West 1 def Cessnock 0

Group B grand Final Results
13 Cooks Hill 3 def Charlestown 2
14 New Lambton 1 def Cooks Hill 0
15 New Lambton 2 def Southy 1
16 Mid Coast 3 def New Lambton 2
18 South Cardiff def Weston on pens

[Oldy]

Do Musialik, Holland and Hearfield qualify. Muragis also starting to make inroads.

Hearfield the Taree wonder kid? Geez only just.
As I said We struggle to a couple out of the 1000s of kids playing to get a gig in arguably the weakest professional comp in the world. Point still stands firm. Archie Goodwin is a great kid. Where are the rest? If we were a fertile football area We'd have many in the Aleague Jets plus more going abroad. Feel free to stay in the "we are awesome" bubble. We have the talent but not the resources to to get these kids to the top thus our mediocrity.
PS can we get out "World class" youth Div A kids to kick both feet? Its embarrassing.

[WOW2.0]

Hearfield the Taree wonder kid? Geez only just.
As I said We struggle to a couple out of the 1000s of kids playing to get a gig in arguably the weakest professional comp in the world. Point still stands firm. Archie Goodwin is a great kid. Where are the rest? If we were a fertile football area We'd have many in the Aleague Jets plus more going abroad. Feel free to stay in the "we are awesome" bubble. We have the talent but not the resources to to get these kids to the top thus our mediocrity.
PS can we get out "World class" youth Div A kids to kick both feet? Its embarrassing.

The mediocrity starts with accepting a season nearly half as long as our near neighbour state federation

Who is talking about world class, there are few kids who are world class...some who are in that category can't kick with both feet...your commentary is what's embarrassing

[The Magician]

Everything will be ok... With NEFA charging $4300 for u11's rego in their own academy comp in Sydney next season, our next representative is only around the corner.

[Oldy]

Nice list but name one of them who went through an academy as they were all selected from club land at later ages.

The whole premise was NPL youth players aren't as good as what we wish to believe. Not Jets players. But adding the best of the best for discussion sake is interesting as well.

[Oldy]

The mediocrity starts with accepting a season nearly half as long as our near neighbour state federation

Who is talking about world class, there are few kids who are world class...some who are in that category can't kick with both feet...your commentary is what's embarrassing

Wow. using both feet embarrassing? yeah I see this isnt an intelligent place to discuss this. Gee some egos are bruised. I didnt know this would upset so many.
So the parents are a big part of the blame as well. Well done.

[Oldy]

Quick few off the top of my head from our region
Jason Hoffman
Nigel Boogaard
Archie Goodwin
Andrew Hoole
Ben Kantarovski
Jobe Wheelhouse
Daniel McBreen
Taylor Reegan
Chuck in Angus Thurgate, too

All achieved professional status as footballers, have, or continue to earn a living through football, etc

Getting to the A-League is a measure of success, don't you agree?

There are of course lots of talented players who don't go on...it's a low percentage who will (with arguably lots of luck and timing required)...that doesn't take away from the potential.

Yes, toxic people can, and are, involved...there are toxic people in any walk of life...doesn't stop people pursing various other careers, does it
Probs 1 or 2 more as well.
Aleague is the lowest base of "success" playing wise. But we're talking NPL youth players not Jets/Breakers because a few parents or coaches on here got upset when I said it isnt good enough. But even adding academy players isn't great. That's not a lot over 30 odd years. And that's lowest level professional.
A real success would be say championship, 2nd tier euro leagues or above.
BTW we can make our clubs much more inviting and objective by being transparent and communicating with truth not subjectivity.
My first improvement would be to have a European home base where Aussie youth can be objectively selected & try their luck. With some payment they have sponsorship, scholarships, living quarters, top coaching, and are part of a 2nd tier Euro comp or academy. easier for scouts to pick up. Huge undertaking but with the right people doable.

[sapdad]

Wow. using both feet embarrassing?

I am 100% with you on this.The JDL handbook says this is supposed to be hammered into the kids for 4 years (9's to 12's).The shame of it is many coaches would rather get straight to the shuttle runs,gym sessions and winning.Drives me mad seeing kids come into 13s still running around away from their weak foot.Its one of the bigger failures in the whole system.

[Aegon]

I am 100% with you on this.The JDL handbook says this is supposed to be hammered into the kids for 4 years (9's to 12's).The shame of it is many coaches would rather get straight to the shuttle runs,gym sessions and winning.Drives me mad seeing kids come into 13s still running around away from their weak foot.Its one of the bigger failures in the whole system.

Kids are only going to learn with their weaker foot if they put in the effort themselves though. Coaches time with the boys and girls should be the tip of the iceberg if they have the desire to improve in these types of areas.

On another note, excellent day of football at Croudace bay from what I saw today.

[ForeverRed]

NEFA kids will be leaps and bounds ahead of other kids in the next 12 months, playing nearly 50 games per season against top quality opposition along with quality coaching,

[onlooker]

I am 100% with you on this.The JDL handbook says this is supposed to be hammered into the kids for 4 years (9's to 12's).The shame of it is many coaches would rather get straight to the shuttle runs,gym sessions and winning.Drives me mad seeing kids come into 13s still running around away from their weak foot.Its one of the bigger failures in the whole system.

This is the big issue, so many coaches are focused solely on winning in JDL instead of trying to teach the kids how to play football, as you said there are so many players getting to the youth system who can?t take a touch won?t attempt to use the weaker foot, and think thumping the ball out of defence every chance they get is the right thing. The beauty about JDL is it don?t matter if you concede a goal, allow the kids to try and play out from the back whilst under pressure and teach them it?s ok to take a touch in the back line and control the ball.
Also one thing for me is mums/dads coaching their own kids teams. Whilst i understand coaching numbers are not high and parents coaching is required, if the teams train and play at this same place why can?t they coach another team other wise little Johnny makes the team each year cause his parents are the coach. But then again even if the parents coach another team they become buddies with their kids coach and not enough people have the balls to pit that aside and pick on merit. Until that is fixed we will always have players moving through every age group the potentially should have been moved on earlier.

[Taffy]

Group C Grand Final Results
13 Toronto 3 def NIAS 2
14 Kahibah 5 def Cessnock 1
15 Kahibah 3 def Westy 0
16 Kahibah 3 def NIAS 2
18 West 1 def Cessnock 0

Group B grand Final Results
13 Cooks Hill 3 def Charlestown 2
14 New Lambton 1 def Cooks Hill 0
15 New Lambton 2 def Southy 1
16 Mid Coast 3 def New Lambton 2
18 South Cardiff def Weston on pens

Thank you for this, seems Northern forgot to post these results on their socials, remembered for League A though.

[sapdad]

Also one thing for me is mums/dads coaching their own kids teams.

I dont have an issue with it especially in the 9-10 age group in JDL.Most parent coaches that Ive come across have been former players or long term coaches dropping back to coach their kids for a few years.Most of them Ive met are harder on their own kids anyone else.Once 11-12 comes along and kids are trying to fight for NPL spots then yes the conflict can become an issue and clubs should activley try and avoid it.Im not aware of too many parent coaches in NPL youth and again the ones I know are highly credentialled and more than fair when it comes to their own kids.But yes,in a perfect world removing all conflicts is the best scenario.Congratulations to all the players involved in their grand finals over the weekend.

[sapdad]

NEFA kids will be leaps and bounds ahead of other kids in the next 12 months, playing nearly 50 games per season against top quality opposition along with quality coaching,

I did hear over the weekend from people that know these things that NPL youth will go to home and away for phase 2 and reverting back to the cup/trial group format of 2 years ago.

[BoundbyGold]

Has there been confirmation as to whether Cooks Hill or Charlestown Azzuri have been promoted back into division 1?

Also, does next year have a mid-season phase change with the relegation? My recollection was that the promotion/ relegation in the middle of the season was across 2023 and 2024, there was never really commentary on 2025 (that I've seen).

[Taffy]

I did hear over the weekend from people that know these things that NPL youth will go to home and away for phase 2 and reverting back to the cup/trial group format of 2 years ago.

That is correct heard from people who were at the PYL meeting last week that home and away for phase 2, so a longer season to free up 2 weekends, the mid-season cup will be abolished. The Pre-season cup is back and will be the same format as the Champions League. This means there will be 29 matches for players next year.


Also common sense has prevailed and 18s will remain in PYL at least for another year, apparently a lot of TDs and youth coaches who have been coaching for many years were in this meeting and overwhelmingly spoke against the proposal to split it from the PYL.

[Taffy]

Has there been confirmation as to whether Cooks Hill or Charlestown Azzuri have been promoted back into division 1?

It's Cooks Hill


Also, does next year have a mid-season phase change with the relegation? My recollection was that the promotion/ relegation in the middle of the season was across 2023 and 2024, there was never really commentary on 2025 (that I've seen).

Yes, not sure where you thought it would only be two seasons, 2023 was different to 2024 because an alignment of teams was needed and so it looked slightly different.

[sapdad]

That is correct heard from people who were at the PYL meeting last week that home and away for phase 2, so a longer season to free up 2 weekends, the mid-season cup will be abolished. The Pre-season cup is back and will be the same format as the Champions League. This means there will be 29 matches for players next year.


Also common sense has prevailed and 18s will remain in PYL at least for another year, apparently a lot of TDs and youth coaches who have been coaching for many years were in this meeting and overwhelmingly spoke against the proposal to split it from the PYL.

Thanks for the reply.I also saw that Stags won the U13s which is great for their first year back.

[WOW2.0]

Wow. using both feet embarrassing? yeah I see this isnt an intelligent place to discuss this. Gee some egos are bruised. I didnt know this would upset so many.
So the parents are a big part of the blame as well. Well done.

I didn't say using both feet was embarrassing, I said your comment was.

That aside, from Google...
3 notable players considered to have only 1 good foot...

C. Ronaldo
D. Beckham
L. Messi

Are you suggesting they are not/were not world class players?

It is an important skill, sure...is it the defining feature for stardom...clearly not!

[plague]

That aside, from Google...
notable players considered to have only 1 good foot...

L. Messi


Oh my lord.


Please delete everything on your computer and reset your modem. It's infected.

[WOW2.0]

Oh my lord.


Please delete everything on your computer and reset your modem. It's infected.


You could try making a substantive counter argument

Also note, I have not claimed anyone here is a Messi, or is ever likely to be (if you thought that, I heard the WEA conducts some adult reading classes that might help you)

Rather specifically the claim made by Oldy of it's importance

[Izzy]

Has there been confirmation as to whether Cooks Hill or Charlestown Azzuri have been promoted back into division 1?

Also, does next year have a mid-season phase change with the relegation? My recollection was that the promotion/ relegation in the middle of the season was across 2023 and 2024, there was never really commentary on 2025 (that I've seen).

Assuming you are referring to PYL - MNC, Weston, New Lambton and Cooks Hill back in Div 1 for the start of next year.

[Izzy]

5 different GF winners in PYL Div 1 yesterday which is somewhat surprising.

U13 - Lake Macquarie
U14 - Valentine
U15 - Jaffas
U16 - Broadmeadow
U18 - Olympic

Congratulations to all teams.

[plague]

You could try making a substantive counter argument

Also note, I have not claimed anyone here is a Messi, or is ever likely to be (if you thought that, I heard the WEA conducts some adult reading classes that might help you)

Rather specifically the claim made by Oldy of it's importance


Keep tweeting through it my guy.

You're doing fine.

[plague]

5 different GF winners in PYL Div 1 yesterday which is somewhat surprising.

U13 - Lake Macquarie
U14 - Valentine
U15 - Jaffas
U16 - Broadmeadow
U18 - Olympic

Congratulations to all teams.

Sorry I got sidetracked with some absolute foz gold a few posts back but came by to say the same thing.

Well in to all teams, games I saw were well contested and played in good spirit. Think 13s was the only grade to have a team do the double.

No one booed the refs which was disappointing but will keep some on here happy.


Good job Valo, great facility.

[Taffy]

No one booed the refs which was disappointing but will keep some on here happy.

You must've missed the early games, plenty of coaches jumping out of the seats and calling for a foul when the ref made the right decision in not giving one.

[sapdad]

You must've missed the early games, plenty of coaches jumping out of the seats and calling for a foul when the ref made the right decision in not giving one.

There were a couple of the usual suspects on show over the 2 days thats for sure but trust me the referees dont even bat an eyelid at their carry on anymore.One day a few of them may begin to change their own behavior instead of wondering why the officials keep picking on them.

[Taffy]

There were a couple of the usual suspects on show over the 2 days thats for sure but trust me the referees dont even bat an eyelid at their carry on anymore.One day a few of them may begin to change their own behavior instead of wondering why the officials keep picking on them.

Wouldn't surprise me, I wasn't at the Saturday games but I'm sure the same jumping up and down happened there as well.

[WOW2.0]

My first improvement would be to have a European home base where Aussie youth can be objectively selected & try their luck. With some payment they have sponsorship, scholarships, living quarters, top coaching, and are part of a 2nd tier Euro comp or academy. easier for scouts to pick up. Huge undertaking but with the right people doable.

How do you envision this working given FIFA Article 19 exists?

This prohibits movements of those under 18s years of age moving to other countries for football reasons (only 3 exceptions are available but can't see how they work with your proposal)

You also commented that 2nd tier European football is a marker if success, but note that this solution kick off in Europe's 2nd tier...how do you reconcile that...they just jump into "success"?

[Dreamtime Yowie]

NEFA kids will be leaps and bounds ahead of other kids in the next 12 months, playing nearly 50 games per season against top quality opposition along with quality coaching,

LOL 😂 another parent sold the fake dream. If you call quality opposition the kids that didn?t make the JDL squds quality. The Sydney academy kids are the ones that couldn?t make the NPL JDL squads in 1st place so parents take them to the academy to train them so they have a chance to get selected when 13s come around. $4500 rego is also quality :woo:

[Dreamtime Yowie]

Thank you for this, seems Northern forgot to post these results on their socials, remembered for League A though.

Why should NNSW post them. Let?s reward failure. Yeah yeah I know it?s an unpopular opinion but we are all thinking it. Makes me cringe when I see parents posting over social media that little Jesses team is champions. Mind you in the 1st half of the season they got belted every week and got relegated so now NNSW has created a comp for the ones that failed so they can feel like champions. What a soft society we live in. Yes by all means have A and B comps but don?t reward the weak teams from A and punish the good from B and this them in half way to steal their glory.

[ForeverRed]

LOL 😂 another parent sold the fake dream. If you call quality opposition the kids that didn?t make the JDL squds quality. The Sydney academy kids are the ones that couldn?t make the NPL JDL squads in 1st place so parents take them to the academy to train them so they have a chance to get selected when 13s come around. $4500 rego is also quality :woo:
You obviously haven?t been involved or witnessed any matches, all NEFA kids play JDL buddy, but next season they won?t, Sydney academies are way above anything happening in Newcastle, NEFA had 400 kids wanting to join, your argument wouldn?t past the pub test

[Taffy]

Why should NNSW post them. Let?s reward failure. Yeah yeah I know it?s an unpopular opinion but we are all thinking it. Makes me cringe when I see parents posting over social media that little Jesses team is champions. Mind you in the 1st half of the season they got belted every week and got relegated so now NNSW has created a comp for the ones that failed so they can feel like champions. What a soft society we live in. Yes by all means have A and B comps but don?t reward the weak teams from A and punish the good from B and this them in half way to steal their glory.

Based on both your recent posts, this forum is not replacement for your therapy sessions.

[WOW2.0]

I think the NEFA guys do a great job to be frank. They have a lot of lived experience to help support any of the kids who go to them too.

Not sure about how the academy stuff works in Sydney, but if the price is $4500 for 50 games that's $90/game.

My boy's season came in at $111/game plus uniform, by comparison (regular season).

Though, I would personally hate the idea of travelling to Sydney every weekend.

Should be many paths for development.

[Dreamtime Yowie]

You obviously haven?t been involved or witnessed any matches, all NEFA kids play JDL buddy, but next season they won?t, Sydney academies are way above anything happening in Newcastle, NEFA had 400 kids wanting to join, your argument wouldn?t past the pub test

You must be their marketing assistant. I?m very well aware of it all and I know they play JDL atm. Read my comment again as I think you?ve had too many fire engines at the pub. I?m saying the Sydney kids aren?t the best. The best are already in top JDL programs run by clubs already in the NSWNPL.

[Dreamtime Yowie]

Based on both your recent posts, this forum is not replacement for your therapy sessions.

So you agree with a team getting a hiding every week in A comp, only to go to B comp where the kids that are already there doing well in the grade they know is their best only for the ones that failed above to take the glory? Show me where in the world something so stupid happens in a league environment. Maybe lakes and Adamstown 1st should have dropped into 2HD lge in June and won that competition half way through season. Then Adamstown could hoist the trophy up and say champions and bring the club back to its glory days. Give me a break.

[Taffy]

Show me where in the world something so stupid happens in a league environment.

You expose your own ignorance, there are professional leagues in Europe that split during the season, one country's top league splits into 3 middle of the season. Another not only splits but the second split allows a reset of points halfway that second phase to allow another team an opportunity to get promoted.

[Dreamtime Yowie]

You expose your own ignorance, there are professional leagues in Europe that split during the season, one country's top league splits into 3 middle of the season. Another not only splits but the second split allows a reset of points halfway that second phase to allow another team an opportunity to get promoted.

I don?t care about Kazakhstan Bruno. And how successful is that country?s lge? Yeah rubbish just like this one. Rewarding Failure because everyone should get a trophy. :yawn:

[Taffy]

I don?t care about Kazakhstan Bruno. And how successful is that country?s lge? Yeah rubbish just like this one. Rewarding Failure because everyone should get a trophy. :yawn:

Some of these leagues and the national teams are pretty successful. Again, you just show your own ignorance and really don't know what you're talking about.

Belgium (8th highest in Europe)
Czech Republic (9th highest)
Denmark (14th highest)
Switzerland (15th highest)
Austria (16th highest)
Scotland (17th highest)
Ireland (33rd highest)

[Dreamtime Yowie]

Some of these leagues and the national teams are pretty successful. Again, you just show your own ignorance and really don't know what you're talking about.

Belgium (8th highest in Europe)
Czech Republic (9th highest)
Denmark (14th highest)
Switzerland (15th highest)
Austria (16th highest)
Scotland (17th highest)
Ireland (33rd highest)

Nice google work. Successful? What exactly have any of those countries won? Their best players don?t play in these countries for a reason if that?s the case.

[ForeverRed]

You must be their marketing assistant. I?m very well aware of it all and I know they play JDL atm. Read my comment again as I think you?ve had too many fire engines at the pub. I?m saying the Sydney kids aren?t the best. The best are already in top JDL programs run by clubs already in the NSWNPL.
Totally incorrect, do some more research buddy, I?m trying to help you be more knowledgeable but your own ignorance is getting in the way

[Hunter403]

So you agree with a team getting a hiding every week in A comp, only to go to B comp where the kids that are already there doing well in the grade they know is their best only for the ones that failed above to take the glory? Show me where in the world something so stupid happens in a league environment. Maybe lakes and Adamstown 1st should have dropped into 2HD lge in June and won that competition half way through season. Then Adamstown could hoist the trophy up and say champions and bring the club back to its glory days. Give me a break.

You don't seem to get it, perhaps deliberately or perhaps from ignorance of the concept. The PYL is two competitions in one season. The first half of the year is two groups of 12 with the "reward" being the placement for the second competition. For the majority of clubs, all points etc are wiped and a clean slate arrives for the second half of the season. If you like, the first part of the season is an extended grading.
The second part is the "real" comp with like against like, which is one of the purposes of the PYL system, and the stats that Northern have presented show it is working. Next season it will be home and away in the second half. They will play more games in the second half of the season than the first.
Of course groups B and C should have finals. Of course they should celebrate because they have won that competition in which they play. By your reasoning, the under 14c community comp should not have finals and winners because they are not group A PYL. The winners of group b and c grand finals won their comp. Good on them.

And catch up with the times. 2HD League? Your argument about Adamstown and Lakes is irrelevant. The NPL and NL1 are not split into two comps in one season.

[Izzy]

Nice google work. Successful? What exactly have any of those countries won? Their best players don?t play in these countries for a reason if that?s the case.
Cleary your definition of successful is different to most.

[Dreamtime Yowie]

Cleary your definition of successful is different to most.

As in Ivan Cleary? Clearly you must think a team that?s won the GF in division B has had a better season than a team that?s come bottom half of the NPL A comp just because they won a trophy :bs:

[Dreamtime Yowie]

Totally incorrect, do some more research buddy, I?m trying to help you be more knowledgeable but your own ignorance is getting in the way

I probably know more than you about it. Since you think you know so much, tell me how many minute games do they play? How many kids on a team? How many start? Is it just one game on the weekend? Long way to drive for just 20min halves don?t you think? What happens if these kids pull out of their JDL squads now and not make the Jets in 13s? Do they have to then grovel back to the clubs they left hanging? Do these clubs then say no thanks because they left them now? I?d like to think those NPL clubs will stay loyal to the kids that stayed with their JDL clubs and in reward get a spot in 13s team. These academy kids would all want to make the Jets I guess.
Then the politics of football start again, with the coaches they have you?d think they might get a leg up at selection time yeah? Now the JDL parents start to think hmmmm these coaches will push the academy kids because it won?t look good if they don?t make Jets will it. So now you have JDL parents thinking oh crap I better pay then money for academy or he won?t get a shot at Jets. Have a think about that gentleman and get back to me.
I have no problem with academy but it should be run in off season outside of NNSW competition.

[Izzy]

As in Ivan Cleary? Clearly you must think a team that?s won the GF in division B has had a better season than a team that?s come bottom half of the NPL A comp just because they won a trophy :bs:

Dude, chill out with the strawman arguments. The conversation has somehow moved from PYL kids making the A League were not really successful in your opinion to comparisons with my clearly/cleary typo and ridiculing various football leagues as being too weak to be consider a success. WTF?!?! It would appear to me that you only consider a kid has been successful if they play in La Liga/EPL/Serie A. Anyone who is paid to play sport as their main source of income (especially football) is certainly a sporting success IMHO, and clearly has talent and work ethic.

[KITZ]

As in Ivan Cleary? Clearly you must think a team that?s won the GF in division B has had a better season than a team that?s come bottom half of the NPL A comp just because they won a trophy :bs:

I will note my kids team in A was beaten by a couple of the teams that got relegated to B this year so you tell me, experience says being in Div A doesn't necessarily mean anything. In the Div B 18s GF one team completely outplayed the other - playing goal kicks in the first 5 minutes of the game was like watching football 30 years ago. If you can't play out from the back by u18 your coach has failed you; as a spectator it was was not a GF worthy game for one team.

17 games a season is also a piss take - does anyone realise the girls NPL played more games this season?

18s should be with seniors, anyone who is playing 18s to win a trophy in 18s is either in their last season playing or has missed the point. They want to play senior football, its all about playing and training with reserve and first grade, not the 16s. trying to get to both game days is a PIA as well 18s and Reserves at many clubs is more blended then many realise. Gate takings or not the 18s WANT to be in with the senior squad and not in youth football. Ask the players they will tell you.

[Taffy]

If you can't play out from the back by u18 your coach has failed you; as a spectator it was was not a GF worthy game for one team.

I see first grade sides kick if long as well. Does it mean the first grade coach has failed if they decide to take goal kicks straight into the middle third?


17 games a season is also a piss take - does anyone realise the girls NPL played more games this season?

It's going to be 29 next season for U13s-U18s.


18s should be with seniors

This has been gone over already, from what I understand those who actually understand the game and understand player development, at the Northern meeting about it were there and showed how it would be dterimental to the U18s comp and the players to take it out of PYL


anyone who is playing 18s to win a trophy in 18s is either in their last season playing or has missed the point.

So you would be in favour of dropping a finals series for U18s even if in seniors? After all if they playing to win they have missed the point.


They want to play senior football, its all about playing and training with reserve and first grade, not the 16s.

So go join a reserve team if you don't want to play 18s. Playing 18s isn't playing senior football even if it is before a reserves game.



the 18s WANT to be in with the senior squad and not in youth football. Ask the players they will tell you.

Either go join a senior squad, or go to a club where 18s do train with the senior squad, there are clubs that do it under the current structure. And if you want to be in a senior squad but no club will currently have you in their reserves or 1st grade then maybe you still need some time in the 18s to develop.

[sapdad]

AClearly you must think a team that?s won the GF in division B has had a better season than a team that?s come bottom half of the NPL A comp just because they won a trophy :bs:

Its obviously a team by team and player by player opinion but every parent that won a trophy this year was very very happy with how it all played out.Personally,my lads didnt get near winning a trophy this year but are better players than when they started and are more than keen to get back into it for another year.I just hope the break is long enough for me to get motivated to drive them everywhere!!

[Retired01]

[QUOTE=Taffy;276009]I see first grade sides kick if long as well. Does it mean the first grade coach has failed if they decide to take goal kicks straight into the middle third?


Completely agree as I watched the U15 div 1 GF 18s last week. Jaffas bypassed their midfield all game and kicked long to the fast striker and then Olympic did the same second half and they were all poor. Coaches should be ashamed for our top tier comp.

[WOW2.0]

[QUOTE=Taffy;276009]I see first grade sides kick if long as well. Does it mean the first grade coach has failed if they decide to take goal kicks straight into the middle third?


Completely agree as I watched the U15 div 1 GF 18s last week. Jaffas bypassed their midfield all game and kicked long to the fast striker and then Olympic did the same second half and they were all poor. Coaches should be ashamed for our top tier comp.

Did the 15s have their CB kick it out too...I watched 13s and 14s both Jaffas teams kicked it long, and in every instance it was the CB who did the goal kicks (not trusting their keeper to do the same, I guess)

It was not good football, certainly not much development on display (I also saw the same style of play watching an unnamed academy side lately, and was not impressed by that)

[Dreamtime Yowie]

You expose your own ignorance, there are professional leagues in Europe that split during the season, one country's top league splits into 3 middle of the season. Another not only splits but the second split allows a reset of points halfway that second phase to allow another team an opportunity to get promoted.

Hey Taffy you think Bahrain splits their NPL comps into 3? I reckon they are pretty successful :banghead:

[Taffy]

Hey Taffy you think Bahrain splits their NPL comps into 3? I reckon they are pretty successful :banghead:

They don't which is why unlike the leagues I mentioned aren't in the Top 10 leagues in Europe.

Continue to show that you know very little.

[ForeverRed]

[QUOTE=Retired01;276019]

Did the 15s have their CB kick it out too...I watched 13s and 14s both Jaffas teams kicked it long, and in every instance it was the CB who did the goal kicks (not trusting their keeper to do the same, I guess)

It was not good football, certainly not much development on display (I also saw the same style of play watching an unnamed academy side lately, and was not impressed by that)
You do what it takes to win a GF, a one off game

[sapdad]

You do what it takes to win a GF, a one off game

I agree and think people are being a bit unfair to label that team as playing bad football.Thats 3 grand final wins in a row for them.They play a certain way,recruit a certain way but at the end of the day its effective.Theres plenty of very good footballers in that team but Ive seen them get outplayed more than a few times in the first half of the year especially.The Olympic team were the benchmark in that grade and played much better throughout the season than they did in the grand final.

[Addios]

The Olympic team were the benchmark in that grade and played much better throughout the season than they did in the grand final.

Benchmark? not for mine. A few teams held them in score and play wise.
Some days teams played well & others not so well. Depends on the attitude of the boys on the day, tactics, bit of luck.
I found the top 8 to be a decent comp. just needs 2 rounds.
As for grand finals its panic football, cant judge a player in those games.

[Addios]

Not sure about how the academy stuff works in Sydney, but if the price is $4500 for 50 games that's $90/game.
My boy's season came in at $111/game plus uniform, by comparison (regular season).
Though, I would personally hate the idea of travelling to Sydney every weekend.
Should be many paths for development.

wow, what ages? Are they going to sydney every week? 11s & 12yo will struggle with that load.

[WOW2.0]

wow, what ages? Are they going to sydney every week? 11s & 12yo will struggle with that load.

I don't know, I'm not part of that...I said I personally would hate having to drive to Sydney every week (I'm not sure I, personally, could do it)

[Imyourhero]

Decent pitch at Valo for GF day

[WOW2.0]

[QUOTE=WOW2.0;276026]
You do what it takes to win a GF, a one off game

...and they lost, both games

If that is what GF football is, may as well do away with it and have first past the post (like the rest of the world)

[Skimmer]

[QUOTE=ForeverRed;276031]

...and they lost, both games

If that is what GF football is, may as well do away with it and have first past the post (like the rest of the world)

Mr follow the curriculum guy here. Gf is the best. Who cares how its played.

[WOW2.0]

Mr follow the curriculum guy here. Gf is the best. Who cares how its played.

The goal of the curriculum is development, both GFs I watched showed all football knowledge kicked out the window.

Beside that, and the promise of having better footballers, who cares about some kids GF no one will remember by the end of next year (that they lost anyway)

But you know, keep complaining about the standard of Australian football while watching games played like that...couldn't trust their GKs to boot it out...and didn't trust their backline or midfield to move the ball up the pitch on their own capabilities.

[Retired01]

The goal of the curriculum is development, both GFs I watched showed all football knowledge kicked out the window.

Beside that, and the promise of having better footballers, who cares about some kids GF no one will remember by the end of next year (that they lost anyway)

But you know, keep complaining about the standard of Australian football while watching games played like that...couldn't trust their GKs to boot it out...and didn't trust their backline or midfield to move the ball up the pitch on their own capabilities.

Any truth in the rumour Jaffas TD has been moved on for next season as it certainly makes sense and someone has obviously noticed something is lacking.

[plague]

But you know, keep complaining about the standard of Australian football while watching games played like that...couldn't trust their GKs to boot it out...and didn't trust their backline or midfield to move the ball up the pitch on their own capabilities.

15s won the GF playing the exact type of football that our national team keep getting praised for.

Yet the boffins in charge want our kids to be 'better'.

Can't have it both ways.

[Skimmer]

Probably more to do because he has had a falling out with the 1st grade coach.

Best he pack his bags and move on to the next town. His ego isnt anywhere near his ability and he shouldnt be around kids.

[WOW2.0]

Best he pack his bags and move on to the next town. His ego isnt anywhere near his ability and he shouldnt be around kids.

Do you mean Redacted, or the gentleman stepping down from the Youth TD role there (Redacted I believe his name is)

[WOW2.0]

It's going to be 29 next season for U13s-U18s.

Do you know when they will announce the format moving forward, so they don't back track like they appear to have done with the 18s to seniors?

[Taffy]

Do you know when they will announce the format moving forward, so they don't back track like they appear to have done with the 18s to seniors?

There's been no back tracking as it was never formally going to happen. I was told when they got actual coaches and TDs who understand youth development and the importance to discuss the changes the response was overwhelmingly negative for the proposal with many reasons given as to how it would be detrimental to 16-17yo players in both the short and long term. So common sense prevailed and they are continuing with keeping them as part of PYL but will still have the play before reserves so clubs can fleece more coin from parents.

I understand a memo has been sent out too notifying clubs of these changes already and how it will work.

[northern_swan]

Hope the gear shed is secure

[The Magician]

I meant Redacted in terms of the falling out.

P Diddy said it, "he ain't, going no where, he ain't, going nowhere, cos we bad boys for life"

[Knowsnuthin]

[QUOTE=Taffy;276009]I see first grade sides kick if long as well. Does it mean the first grade coach has failed if they decide to take goal kicks straight into the middle third?


Completely agree as I watched the U15 div 1 GF 18s last week. Jaffas bypassed their midfield all game and kicked long to the fast striker and then Olympic did the same second half and they were all poor. Coaches should be ashamed for our top tier comp.

[Knowsnuthin]

Olympic 18s played there whole season that way. Kick it long was obviously what they were being coached if not then they weren?t being coached at all.

[Skimmer]

Do you mean Redacted, or the gentleman stepping down from the Youth TD role there (Redacted I believe his name is)

Redacted. Is a pest. Blew in from QLD somewhere, very little playing pedigree, likes players who pay his training fees, gets poor results.
Thats the evidence ive seen. Zane much much better for older lads. Pepps seems to get the best out of youth although not in the system any more

[Aegon]

Just a reminder to everyone:

As per the posting guidelines:

Please don't pass rumours off as fact, naming individuals especially in a negative light and abuse of fellow users. If this occurs, the local football subforum may have it's access restricted or locked altogether.

[WOW2.0]

Someone told me over the weekend that Charlestown has lost another crop of their SAP product to Valentine.

If true, that's 3 years in a row...they really need to stop their coaches talking to anyone in an orange shirt!
(Remember people, "Orange man bad" 😂)

More interesting to consider though, is Valentine's SAP product so poor that they have needed to poach both coaches and teams going into 13s for the last 3 intakes of 13s...and why are they picking on Charlestown :P

[Taffy]

Someone told me over the weekend that Charlestown has lost another crop of their SAP product to Valentine.

If true, that's 3 years in a row...they really need to stop their coaches talking to anyone in an orange shirt!
(Remember people, "Orange man bad" ��)

More interesting to consider though, is Valentine's SAP product so poor that they have needed to poach both coaches and teams going into 13s for the last 3 intakes of 13s...and why are they picking on Charlestown :P

I understand the first year was because they told 12s coach he could become the 13s coach but he wouldn't be allowed to pick the team.

Second and third year, Valentine certainly are approaching Charlestown players, but you do have to wonder what is going on in Valo JDL land for them to not want to keep their players. Is it coaching, or selections or just Valentine thinking they can get better players.

I understand the top 3 Charlestown 12s have gone to another League 8 club that isn't Valentine but they all felt mistreated at Charlestown.

[sapdad]

Maybe the other question to ask is why those kids want to leave Charlestown to begin with?If its just because they want to play Div A then theres not much Azzurri can do at the moment.I just hope they realise that if they arent Div A quality players then they will be the ones getting replaced.Thats how it is.

[sapdad]

Lets also not pretend that the poaching is limited to Valentine.Good to see Rosebuds have worked how how to fill their teams for next year too.

[finzee]

Lets also not pretend that the poaching is limited to Valentine.Good to see Rosebuds have worked how how to fill their teams for next year too.

Poaching/merry-go-round. Every year the same. Was a good mix of finalist clubs throughout NPL youth this year. Was fantastic to see.