TBF that Goodwin one against Janjetovic was basically a corner, and Janjetovic in that instance proved how useless he was when he basically got chipped by it. That was more a highlight of how useless Janjetovic is rather than a well-taken freekick from Goodwin.Originally Posted by plague
You're not wrong about the Griffiths freekick v Heart though
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I also thought that keepers who are right-footed were meant to dive better to their left as they're pushing off from their dominant foot.
OK
It has a lot to do with this as we're comparing where we once were with our keeping stocks, to why/how it has gone so differently now. We're identifying the problem, finding the root cause, and looking to the future. If we were conceding less with what most people (yourself included iirc) agreed was a better keeper, that allows us to draw the conclusion that to be a competitive side in the future we need to bring a better keeper back in.
You seem to not want to recognise it but those stats when looking at BK's freekicks are pretty interesting, at the very least.
OK
Do you reckon these discussions have been going on between Stubbins and JVS or Youngy before him?
The Championship Chronicles - The Jetstream's review of the 2007/08 season. www.newcastlefootball.net/chronicles
Recognise what? That bk has let in four free kicks? Not hiding from that.
I'm asking why relevance is one keepers stats being compared to another keepers stats when we are discussing a technical error in a players game, particularly when the stats arent based on anything more than memory. The thread didn't start with, "remember when we had a better keeper than bk"
Birraz not letting in more than bk doesn't mean BK's positioning is wrong, there are way too many variables in any freekick to simplify a few seasons worth by simply looking at the result and who was in goals.
Put petr cech in goals, let Ronaldo hit freekicks. Now put bk in goals and let you or me hit freekicks.
Would the results suggest bk is better than cech because he concededed less? According to members assumptions he would be.
I've said it before, his lateral explosive movement is of more concern.
Last edited by GazFish35; 25-02-2015 at 08:35 AM.
Dominant as in kicking foot?
When you dive to your left you push off from your left foot, dive to the right and you push off your right. Otherwise you can easily over-rotate and land on your stomach.
I'm sure we'd all hope that the keeper coach reviews the game tape of each game and goes into detail with the head coach as well as the player on what he did right and wrong, and trainings were focused around the issues from the week previous plus the issues they predict to face in the upcoming weekend.
But it IS the Jerks, so for all we know they'll just have BK and Solari running shuttles all week.
OK
We're discussing "BK and Free Kicks". The stats comparing BK and Biraz are worthy of noting because it shows that BK deals with the free kicks he faced, in less game time, worse than the free kicks Biraz faced, in more game time. Like I said before, it is looking at the past, present and future to sort our keeper issue in general. This thread isn't confined to talking solely about BK's positioning and explosive movement.
The stats don't have to be all-telling but they're a handy, somewhat-relevant, and existent indication.
Whether these stats are based from memory or not, we all know that BK has conceded at least 4 and Biraz at least 1 (how appropriate that 1 is to this argument, I still argue as I said yesterday it was more of a hilarious accident more than an indication in how he deals with free kicks of the nature we're referring to) free kick. Both players may have conceded more but that doesn't change we know at least the minimum, and the minimum is telling enough as is. If you're so worked up about it, find the legitimate stats for yourself. Otherwise the majority of us are happy to take these and make judgements from it. Just remember we have guys on this forum who answer Jeterpool's trivia questions weekly from memories. People can remember random goals from Heskey, random Friday night wins v Heart, and all this other stuff. If Biraz conceded more free kick goals, I'm confident someone would have said "didn't Broxham score that free kick in S7R18" or whatever.
Last edited by pv4; 25-02-2015 at 08:48 AM.
OK
I got told that ages ago.
Thinking about how you're saying it, I am now doubting whether it is true
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So if my memory says birraz only ever faced one, and bk faced 18, we can take it as fact.
This stats argument isn't about a bk v birraz debate. I'm defending all keepers, there's way too many variables in any freekick to simplify it so much.
The fact that people are ready to ignore birraz' Bosnar brainsnap is shows this.
If all the variables arent going to be considered in each case, this one can't be written off either. The way you dismiss the Goodwin freekick past janjetavic as "nearly a corner" is another example of too many variables to simplify multiple seasons on simply the result.
If we do this, let's just look at goals against and decide the best keeper in the world in 1993 was me as I only conceeded 2 goals in 26 games. It's not accurate analysis and cheapens the work keepers do.
Last edited by GazFish35; 25-02-2015 at 09:04 AM.
If you can provide at least 1 example of Biraz facing a freekick, and at least 18 of BK facing freekicks, and no one can (or will) offer otherwise then sure, we can take it as fact enough.
People are ready to ignore Biraz's Bosnar brainsnap because the case in hand is about freekicks in "the Beckham zone" for a way to phrase it where the keeper has set a wall, knowing that the shot is on. No one is ignoring how poorly Biraz dealt with the Bosnar freekick, but the thing doesn't apply to this case. If you want to bring up a case for how keepers deal with miskicks, bobbling balls, and slipping over themselves - you have a great example right there.
OK
So now it's jut in the beckham zone?
This thread started about BK's dealing with free-kicks.
Not "bk and bairraz and freekicks."
And certainly not "bk and birraz and freekicks in the beckham zone"
Someone keeps moving the goalposts and it's not me
The Championship Chronicles - The Jetstream's review of the 2007/08 season. www.newcastlefootball.net/chronicles
Most of your (EDIT: rephrase to THE) arguments in this thread have been about wall positioning, keeper positioning in relation to the wall and ball, keeper vision in relation to the wall, and keeper reaction time. None of which, I think, apply to the Bosnar brainsnap of Biraz.
If you want to include the Bosnar thing in Biraz's cons list, feel free. It still reads BK 4, Biraz 1. If you want to include Biraz conceding goals from corners in this argument (which is about as applicable to this case we're arguing as the Bosnar freekick, for me) then feel free also. It doesn't change how relevant it is to this case.
Last edited by pv4; 25-02-2015 at 10:04 AM.
OK
3:15 onwards, just found it.
OK
And my initial point is that anything birraz does is irrelevant in a discussion on bk's positioning.
I feel like I've answered how relevant comparing the two is about 3 times now.
And for what it's worth, there is a possibility it is even more relevant in the fact that Biraz is still contracted to us for next season, so very well could be back playing for us again - and having forms of comparisons for when this arises can't be a bad thing.
OK
Cheers for posting that pv4.
Now please everyone watch it and read the following points.
From this goal and other examples posted on here (from Parksey and Mr Fish) and the BK one on the weekend.
All 4 keepers are lined up quite similarly (text book wall blocks the near post keeper protect the far post)
BK and the Joe Hart both start fairly flat footed and are beaten at the near post.
DeGea 'cheats' a little by (correctly) anticipating the shot and pulls off a great save.
Melb Heart keeper 'cheats' a little bit incorrectly guesses the shot and gets beat at the far post (the spot he is supposed to protect).
In those 4 instances the only bad keeping is from the Heart goalie who got beat at the side he was supposed to be protecting. Joe Hart and BK were beaten by good shots (Harts wall didn't help by falling apart), and DeGea (widely regarded as a top 3 goalie in the world) performed like a top 3 goalie and made a great save.
There is nothing more to it than that.
People bringing this one up as an example of bad keeping are dead wrong.
I maintain though that the Finkler one from earlier in the season was from poor positioning and organising from our keeper.
That example is a great reason why I have no faith in Kennedy. He just isn't good enough when dealing with free kicks. Whether or not that's his fault, or Gosling, Caitlin, Young or JVS, I don't know or care, all I know is that if we want to be a top club ever again, we need a better keeper than Kennnedy. Whether or not that is Birraz, or someone else, I don't know. My preference is Birraz, but that's not to say he's perfect.
Middleby Gone
Lawrie Out
Bang on end of thread.
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