Do you mean another team at NLFC U12? Not that I know of - they would have been miniroos players with a cancelled season, I don't imagine they'd like to play games against our ex-NET playersOriginally Posted by Goatscheese
As for not being as bad - I don't know what to say; the club had to make a call with the information in front of them, so as far as that goes I support the decision.
It's as good a program as I can see being feasibly implemented at this age group. From my experience they have the correct motivation and I would not underestimate how hard it would be to pull together a coherent curriculum which suits this broad an age range.
But don't take my mention of focussing on tackling to say that I am not also training to all 4 core principles, which includes working on the technical aspects of passing and using their weak foot.
In other news we know who and where and when we're playing this weekend, and we're allowed to start tackling at training from today. What's happening in other parts of the world and even Australia suggests that we are extremely fortunate to be this far along.
Yes I meant another team at NLFC U12 that may still be training just like you guys are, at least then every couple weeks you could have a game and not just be training.
I am blaming Newcastle Football and Newcastle Council for scaring a lot of clubs with claims on requirements and consequences that quite frankly were never going to be true. Not the clubs.As for not being as bad - I don't know what to say; the club had to make a call with the information in front of them, so as far as that goes I support the decision.
The blame for those Macquarie Football teams that pulled off can be put on Macquarie Football with similar claims.
Last edited by Goatscheese; 01-07-2020 at 06:04 PM.
I thought New Lambton only canned the 6-11s?
For reasons that I mentioned earlier, my older boys team is U12 ID (Community group) and it was included in the cancellations. U13 (NewFM) is premier group and they're going ahead.
U9 SAP, U10 SAP, U11 SAP are all Premier group and are going ahead.
i dont blame the curriculum or the designers of it.i actually think the theory behind it is solid.but in year 3 the focus has shifted well away from that by the kind of people who were mentioned in year 1 as the type of people we wanted to avoid in this program.
Hi sapdad,
Can we delve a little deeper into your comment? It sounds like your club has introduced someone to the SAP space who is tinkering with the pathway design. Is that right? Or are you referring to Northern's management of the program?
A
Hi Alan,no its not one person but its a type of person that is now involved in the program that concerns me.let me give you an idea about what im talking about.
year 1 we had the drop off rule from goal kicks, opposition players (at that stage 1 or 2 forwards) stood behind the line and the attacking team played out.the rules were enforced and teams learned how to play 1-2's, players came back for the ball but it all started with the goalie playing it to his 2 fullbacks who were split either side of the goal.
year 2 teams started to put more emphasis on getting right on the drop off line and sprinting to the fullbacks.refs either didnt care or didnt know the rules and teams were getting pinned into their end.teams were now scoring goals by winning these 1-1 tackles and then getting 1-1 or 2-1 vs the goalie.the attention went away from teaching kids to play out and onto not getting caught with the ball in their own end.
year 3 the first few games i saw (trials and program) teams are now stacking 3 and 4 players on the drop off line and staying inside the attacking player so no matter where the goalie goes, the result is the same.if he plays to the fullbacks, they are immediately out numbered.if he plays up the field a bit, the ball is coming straight back to him.the only real solution is to try and kick long goal kicks and create runaways on the other end. due to most SAP goalies not being able to launch it 30m, its not a reliable tactic.
the result is teams are scoring goals from defensive pressure.awesome right? no. the idea of the program is to play football.but coaches (and parents and assorted hangers on)are so concerned with winning that we are introducing these tactics to 9 year olds and we end up playing long ball or watch 2 and 3 kids flood fullbacks.
again, if people want to play that type of football then great, there are many comps to go do that in and you'll get your trophy at the end and you can sing your team song. but SAP was designed to play football, and by year 3 we have coaches going against everything the program was designed to do.
now, plenty of coaches on here will say they dont coach that and i believe them. but sadly if teams keep getting beaten and kids get disheartened parents will quickly shift to blaming coaches and clubs for not winning more.the end product of that is coaches adapting to a winning style or risk losing their players.
SAP was designed to create a new type of australian player.there is a reason why australia currently has what 1? player at an elite level playing in the 6,8,9,10 positions. why are our players never good enough for these spots? we cant even produce middle players for our own domestic league, yet when they try and fix the system, the same old school attitudes infiltrate it and we stay in the same place.ive no doubt SAP will end up producing a better quality of junior than it has before, but we are never going to produce the type of real world class player until we throw all this 'winning' and 'bleed for the shirt' attitude out the window and teach the kids how to play football.
the worst part is in 18 months these first crop of SAP kids go to NPL full field. So the structure,positioning and tactics will all be different.players cant flood as much, goalies can kick further and there is way more space for kids to use their individual skill.so why spend so much time on it now? because we want to win at any cost.
anyway sorry for the ramble i hope it makes some sense.by all means if everyone on here gets to a game on the weekend tell me what you see.im one parent of one kid so im not pretending to know it all.my kid is lucky in that his coach has always been about the football.its made things tough some days when opposition teams play awful football but 'win'.but its also great when you see kids get a chance to show of some pretty amazing skills for their ages.im lucky in that we get to see a lot of different games and im sure the best kids will make it, but it just saddens me to think a fair few others arent getting the same opportunity because peoples focus is on the wrong thing.
In the case of New Lambton you don’t have to be the biggest to be the strongest, I find it disappointing they pulled the pin, all you hear is how big their club is and how they’re the best to play for yet other clubs have battled through and one club I know off have accepted 200 new players since Covid and are powering on, maybe a little less noise and a little more grind may be the answer
Hi mate, not being part of the club would make it difficult to understand, as you don't see the inner workings of Alder Park and Novo at 9am each Saturday morning, however when the club was making the decision, the information to hand (provided through a full club survey) was that there would not be enough volunteers stepping up to ensure that compliance with the Covid-19 requirements would be achieved. For instance, Alder Park has miniroos all morning with up to 1000 people there. Imagine policing that, and if not able to, the club is liable. Considering that 500 is the allowed maximum number of people at a facility, scheduling games became a massive problem as well. The issue for New Lambton is the size of the club, and has nothing to do with grind or hard work.
The attitude of she''ll be right, might be okay for some, but if something goes wrong who is to blame?
Great to see the kids back into SAP this morning. I feel it's a great program from my club's perspective, and i've seen some amazing football from many clubs and individual players over the past 18 months that i've been involved with it. Where you have instances of teams pressing high and not allowing teams out, it's up to the match referee to ensure that the rules are being adhered to.
Last edited by howardyou; 04-07-2020 at 02:20 PM.
im assuming this was in response to my post.please let me be clear the players and coaches arent breaking any rules.they are flooding and pressing from behind the line.my post was about the focus going from teaching/encouraging the kids to play out to the kids being given little to no chance to make a first pass.the simple fix is to pull the dropoff line back another 5-10m out.it could be that easy.
Inconsistent application of the rules is still a big problem.
Our club have always instructed the game leaders that the 2 most important rules at this age are the drop off and blatant offsides.
You’ll then play at an opponent’s home ground the week after and their game is structured around sitting 1-2 kids very high and hoping to get long ball goals, this is crap for the boys when they are getting scored against from offside positions.
They don’t understand why it isn’t being called.
I was game leader today for my sons team and pulled them up 3/4 times and disallowed at least 1 goal because they were clearly offside. Also pulled up kids from both teams for encroaching the drop off line off goal kicks.
What time should be implemented though is the drop off should be all times when the goalie gets the ball, because general play goalie pick ups get consistently pressed which results in turnovers, long balls and the occasional good play out.
Another thing that is blatantly obvious is that northern have made a huge mistake in not pooling the teams into 2 divisions/leagues and not allowing provision to do so this at all this season. Both games in my sons age group today were completely one sided. We may not be keeping score but sure as shit the kids on the field do and you can tell when teams start getting demoralised by how badly they are getting played off the park.
One of the games today the team ended up pulling their goalie off the field (played with 6 on the field) and giving the opposing team 2 of their players to try and keep the game challenging and worth playing because no one is learning anything by winning or losing by 20.
On a positive note, It was great to see how happy the kids where today at the games I saw. I know my son was super excited and happy to be back on the field.
Totally agree with Aegon though in regards to Northern missing an opportunity to split the teams into pools for the second half of the draw, both teams in my sons age group completely dominated the opposition. While my boys teams enjoyed a few goals I do feel for the kids on the other teams, its going to be a long season.
I would absolutely support that change.
Sapdad, I totally agree with the need for this rule to be strongly enforced and if not even amended to give a defending team an actual chance to play out from the back. watched a game at Speer's Point on Saturday where a defending team would barely even get a touch on the ball from the goal kick before they were boxed in by 4-5 attacking players. Makes it hard when the attacking team ( Clearly outclassing the defending team) has the entire team including the goalie pressed inside the opposition half for the entire game.
This is not a NNSW problem this is a coach and club issue. I have no issue with kids being off side but the drop off rule needs to be enforced as it is in Miniroos football. It's not even an issue for the referee its the coach that should be getting them back and teaching them at training to do so. Too many coaches at this young age teaching the kids skills they don't need yet like the press as well as hand picking all the good kids into one team, it's only stunting their development but these superstar SAP coaches wouldn't see that.
Sapdad you have made some very valid & strong points-the issue for me ( been involved coaching at SAP since it’s introduction) is the way ‘certain clubs & coaches interpret the concept -there are several nnsw clubs who are already telling teams to
Press -intense-shape etc with the sole purpose of ??? winning!!
This is where it needs to change -I’m all for a competitive streak in us all and let’s teach our players how to win & lose but the governing body needs to decide keep results and open up a competition or NOT -In Spain U6’s have promotion & relegation!
im not 100 percent sure but doesnt ID's and the old NET have tables and comps? This is my point,if thats what parents/coaches want for their kids, then send them over there and use those comps to get that fix.SAP isnt the only path for players,there are going to be plenty of talented australian kids come out of other areas.this program was designed to be something different but its not being given a chance.a big problem is coaches and TD's who are the same people who used to (or still do) coach mens,and higher age NPL football are just coming straight into the program bringing their ideas with them.this is supposed to be different.
on another note the ground i was at on the weekend sure looked like the drop off line was a good extra 5m back from its usual spot.made me laugh as it helped the football immeasurably.thinking if i ref a few games this year ill sneak in prematch and move it back myself.
The NET comp this season is not functioning like it has in previous seasons and without technical oversight from NF it may not ever get back to where it was. It will likely become something similar to what HV and Macquarie have with club development teams in A grade in each ID division & by 12's will pretty much replicate what existed last year.
Without formalising NET type structures in each association the options are becoming more limited.... Join an academy or it's Miniroos/SAP or ID's/SAP depending on the age group.
Northern is bringing in SAP12s next year for their Premier clubs, I wouldn't expect many would bother with a development team on top of their 1 or 2 U12 SAP teams instead.
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