2020 NPL Youth Thread

[Hunter403]

We are only talking about under 13s at the moment and it is a very close competition right down to 8th spot. I wouldn’t think any cause for alarm bells about a weak competition unless you look at the teams below that.

I was talking about all ages. Take a look at the 15's comp. 3rd year of development and the gap is huge.

[Captain_Carl]

I was talking about all ages. Take a look at the 15's comp. 3rd year of development and the gap is huge.

Yes I agree with that. Let’s be specific and not make general statements. I am copping enough criticism already for being an active supporter. I am a friendly fellow really.

[Hunter403]

Yes I agree with that. Let’s be specific and not make general statements. I am copping enough criticism already for being an active supporter. I am a friendly fellow really.

yep and I will chat with you with courtesy and respect.

[Goatscheese]

Also, get used to the name calling, the Maitland team song includes calling the other team "sh*t" repeatably when they win. sounds terrible from a bunch of 12 year olds, but theres lots of rubbish going on around different teams that happens, poor winners, poor losers. Unless the clubs teach different behaviours, thats what you are going to get.

There is name calling and then there is calling players slanty eyes, niggers and faggots, all of which have been reported to Northern from different club in all three of their competitions in different age groups this year.

[Goatscheese]

Maybe have promotion and relegation in 2 or 3 youth divisions like they do in Sydney.

If they aren't going to do it for clubs this is the next best thing they should be aiming for. That would require work from Northern though.

[Captain_Carl]

If they aren't going to do it for clubs this is the next best thing they should be aiming for. That would require work from Northern though.

Go Valo!
Jeepers creepers yeah!
Hey it’s a beautiful day!
Go the Phoenix!

[KITZ]

Carl, you clearly misunderstand what I am saying.

I am trying to highlight the imbalance. At no time did I say anything about winning being the "name of the game". I am disappointed and saddened by the lop sided results and I coach in that competition.

I agree that overcoming adversity can be character building and educational, but I doubt the educational benefits from winning or losing by 10 or 12 in a game of by 5 or more week after week.

Players will develop better if the competition is close. Going out knowing you are in for a thrashing won't help development. Teams winning by 10 or losing by 10 learn little.

The main point I am trying to make (and I should have written more for clarity) is that the imbalance is hurting development. I am lamenting the fact that 4 clubs dominate and will coax away any kid of ability from a "weaker" club if they can. Watch the end of season merry go round this year as the 4 big clubs pillage their way through the ranks of the weaker ones.

That team you were talking about that loses 10 nil also beat newfm teams at the top of their ladder by double digits in trials. It’s not as simple as they dont deserve to be there.

Stop looking at the scoreboard. They lost ten nil but they have some decent kids. Those decent ones will get carried through and be allowed to play up and will probably make first grade before any of the kids in the top teams bar a select one or two.

You probably didn’t know their keeper played right up to 15s against edgy over the weekend and also did last week against Olympic both the toughest teams in the comp. He gets the most work out of the competition and the most development, he isn’t feeling demoralised, he just keeps working hard week in and week out.

Yes and the jets pillaged the 14s from Olympic until they didn’t have subs. Some kids have their football goals as playing for certain clubs. Some just want to make first grade. some want to play in the a league or go overseas, so they will move when the time is right.

If the kids parents in the top four are worried they aren’t working hard enough they can always trial in Sydney. Or go overseas. Taking the bottom of the table out means less teams to play and not more development, with your logic I think SAP should move back to the old system too. Just take out all opportunity.

And in all honesty some of those teams in the top play out so sloppy from the back they should be using the extra game time to do it right every time!! They certainly aren’t perfect in their game play either, especially in the 13s.

[BS detecor]

Massively lop sided results in all ages except 16s again over the weekend. 4 clubs seem to stand out and the rest are just making up the numbers

Has been that way forever. Every now and then a dark horse pokes their head up for 5 minutes before normal service is resumed. I wonder when northern will go the way they have in Sydney and split the comp after round 1 so the weaker teams play each other and the stronger teams play each other for more competitive games.

[KITZ]

Has been that way forever. Every now and then a dark horse pokes their head up for 5 minutes before normal service is resumed. I wonder when northern will go the way they have in Sydney and split the comp after round 1 so the weaker teams play each other and the stronger teams play each other for more competitive games.

Theres 12 teams. What would be the point. The way you've said it valo would have been up the top, since that's where they were at the start of the season, that's not where they are now though as teams have developed and caught up.

Its also worth noting that many of those top teams in the younger ages you are talking about are only retaining half a dozen players from their teams, which means they already have a good idea that they want to look at some other kids, maybe from those teams that everyone thinks don't deserve to be there.

It can't be all its made out to be up the top of the ladder, otherwise why would those teams not be retaining entire squads?

[Hunter403]

That team you were talking about that loses 10 nil also beat newfm teams at the top of their ladder by double digits in trials. It’s not as simple as they dont deserve to be there.

Stop looking at the scoreboard. They lost ten nil but they have some decent kids. Those decent ones will get carried through and be allowed to play up and will probably make first grade before any of the kids in the top teams bar a select one or two.

You probably didn’t know their keeper played right up to 15s against edgy over the weekend and also did last week against Olympic both the toughest teams in the comp. He gets the most work out of the competition and the most development, he isn’t feeling demoralised, he just keeps working hard week in and week out.

Yes and the jets pillaged the 14s from Olympic until they didn’t have subs. Some kids have their football goals as playing for certain clubs. Some just want to make first grade. some want to play in the a league or go overseas, so they will move when the time is right.

If the kids parents in the top four are worried they aren’t working hard enough they can always trial in Sydney. Or go overseas. Taking the bottom of the table out means less teams to play and not more development, with your logic I think SAP should move back to the old system too. Just take out all opportunity.

And in all honesty some of those teams in the top play out so sloppy from the back they should be using the extra game time to do it right every time!! They certainly aren’t perfect in their game play either, especially in the 13s.

Ok, firstly Kitz, I was not talking about any team or age specifically. I mentioned no club or team. I used the numbers I used for demonstrating a point and they do noit refer to any specific result. I have no ideas what team you are talking about nor will I look up the draw to establish who it is you are talking about. There were multiple results in the vicinity of the numbers I used. It is unimportant to the point I am trying to make.

Secondly, the scoreboard (amongst other things) has to be looked at. Who won or who lost is irrelevant, but what is relevant is that we are 2/3 of the way through the season and the imbalance is as bad as it was in round 1. The scoreboard can be used as a guide to measure improvement. Are we seeing improvement? In some, yes, but overall????

What we are seeing is that the best players from the lower placed clubs are already being targeted by the higher placed clubs. To paraphrase Midnight Oil, "the rich get richer.."

I have no agenda here beyond asking if anyone has ideas to help address the imbalance and improve the competition. I firmly believe that the stronger the whole competion is, the closer the results we get then the more improvement we will get. You appear to agree as you suggest heading to Sydney for tougher competition (ie greater improvement). Why can't we get that tougher competition here?? How do we get that tougher competition here??

I think SAP is great concept. The trick next will be to find a way for, say a NEWFM club, not to lose a kid to an NPL club while still in SAP, or to stop a strong NPL club from recruiting a good player from a weaker NPL club. SAP is, for the moment, the best way forward.

At no time did I suggest, or will I suggest, removing the bottom half of the table. We must improve the bottom half of the table. Please, don't suggest things that I have not said as being my thoughts. Consequently, your quip about my logic around SAP is founded on your baseless thought that I have suggested removing the bottom half of the table. Wrong. I have re-read what I wrote and can't see how you got that from my post.

In your response to BS detecor you said "It can't be all its made out to be up the top of the ladder, otherwise why would those teams not be retaining entire squads?" The answer to that is pretty obvious. Those clubs have decieded to strengthen their teams further by bringing in kids from outside. Now, maybe in the 13s they will come from outside the NPL club or its SAP program itself, but in the 14s, 15s and 16s it is more than likely that the new players coming in will be from other NPL clubs, How do I know this? It is exactly what is occurring at the club where I coach.

[Alan]

I have no agenda here beyond asking if anyone has ideas to help address the imbalance and improve the competition.

Hi Hunter,

I think you make some very valid points in your post. This is an important conversation and I am pleased to see us having it.

I think the key to addressing the imbalance is for the 'weaker' clubs to make themselves more appealing to their existing or other players. Obviously cost is one way of doing it - can these clubs run their programs with rego fees half what they are currently charging? The answer is probably 'yes' - but it would take a culture change of not having youth football funding the 1st grade.

Another way is to give players more bang for their buck. If you offer the standard 3 nights per week standard training, can you do something different? Can you bring in some specialist coaches with vast experience to add value to your program? Are your coaches getting the support / coaching they need to make the program better? Is your club offering coaches the opportunity to progress their badges in return for some longer-term loyalty?

What is a club's training ground like? If your 'elite' kids are training on the same pitch as your community kids, can you use the 1st grade facilities instead? Can your club focus on ground / infrastructure improvements so that when players come and trial at your club they walk away saying 'wow, that place is much better than what I currently run about on for 5-6 hours a week'.

Of course, this all needs planning and desire and, mostly, patience. If clubs truly invest in youth they will see the benefits, but there will be losses, bumpy roads and it will take time. The smaller clubs are always going to lose their best kids to the bigger teams - it happens in the EPL! - but they need not lose them all.

Clubs need a strong committee, strong technical staff and strong support to make improvements year-on-year. I agree that SAP is the key - if you start implementing the right road now you'll see huge strides made in 4-5 years, but clubs have to commit and believe. Be honest with parents on where you are and where you want to be. But don't just sing it, bring it! Show them your commitment. Slash fees, offer something different, don't prop up aging 1st graders who will offer you nothing in a years time. Change culture. Choose life!

A

[KITZ]

Hi Hunter,

I think you make some very valid points in your post. This is an important conversation and I am pleased to see us having it.

I think the key to addressing the imbalance is for the 'weaker' clubs to make themselves more appealing to their existing or other players. Obviously cost is one way of doing it - can these clubs run their programs with rego fees half what they are currently charging? The answer is probably 'yes' - but it would take a culture change of not having youth football funding the 1st grade.

Another way is to give players more bang for their buck. If you offer the standard 3 nights per week standard training, can you do something different? Can you bring in some specialist coaches with vast experience to add value to your program? Are your coaches getting the support / coaching they need to make the program better? Is your club offering coaches the opportunity to progress their badges in return for some longer-term loyalty?

What is a club's training ground like? If your 'elite' kids are training on the same pitch as your community kids, can you use the 1st grade facilities instead? Can your club focus on ground / infrastructure improvements so that when players come and trial at your club they walk away saying 'wow, that place is much better than what I currently run about on for 5-6 hours a week'.

Of course, this all needs planning and desire and, mostly, patience. If clubs truly invest in youth they will see the benefits, but there will be losses, bumpy roads and it will take time. The smaller clubs are always going to lose their best kids to the bigger teams - it happens in the EPL! - but they need not lose them all.

Clubs need a strong committee, strong technical staff and strong support to make improvements year-on-year. I agree that SAP is the key - if you start implementing the right road now you'll see huge strides made in 4-5 years, but clubs have to commit and believe. Be honest with parents on where you are and where you want to be. But don't just sing it, bring it! Show them your commitment. Slash fees, offer something different, don't prop up aging 1st graders who will offer you nothing in a years time. Change culture. Choose life!

A

Love it! I think some of it as well comes down to parent education from the start. They see a name or scoreboard and think that’s the be all and end all.

More knowledge across the board and sharing, like for example. Many clubs don’t have goalkeeper coaching for their youth players. Only their senior squad.

Do you bench up the best players from the age down on game days?

How easy is it to communicate with the committee above the coach of your squad, are they approachable?

When do you find out who the coach for the next season is, or is it pot luck? Lol.

[Jim]

What we are seeing is that the best players from the lower placed clubs are already being targeted by the higher placed clubs. To paraphrase Midnight Oil, "the rich get richer.."

I firmly believe that the stronger the whole competition is, the closer the results we get then the more improvement we will get. You appear to agree as you suggest heading to Sydney for tougher competition (ie greater improvement). Why can't we get that tougher competition here?? How do we get that tougher competition here??

We can get a tougher comp by having 2 divisions for each age group. Bottom 2 down. 2 up 2 down each year. Incentive for everyone? Problem will be if Newfm is carving div 1 then Npl clubs will hen pick and down they go. But the whole idea is to get the best players playing top grade.

I think SAP is great concept. The trick next will be to find a way for, say a NEWFM club, not to lose a kid to an NPL club while still in SAP, or to stop a strong NPL club from recruiting a good player from a weaker NPL club. SAP is, for the moment, the best way forward.

Players will always be attracted to play in the strongest team possible and there in lies the top 3 or 4

In your response to BS detecor you said "It can't be all its made out to be up the top of the ladder, otherwise why would those teams not be retaining entire squads?" The answer to that is pretty obvious. Those clubs have decieded to strengthen their teams further by bringing in kids from outside. Now, maybe in the 13s they will come from outside the NPL club or its SAP program itself, but in the 14s, 15s and 16s it is more than likely that the new players coming in will be from other NPL clubs, How do I know this? It is exactly what is occurring at the club where I coach.

Strongest teams have the least need to make changes. They already basically have the best. They still will bring in anyone who can beat their weakest. Clubs dont stay strong forever. Remember when Adamstown and Wallsend were the best?

[Jim]

They were headed for good things but their coach that was sacked slowly destroyed them. The new coach is trying to undo the damage caused. Winning is great but if that is a person’s sole driver then the point is being missed. Hey, it’s a beautiful day!

What did the previous coach do wrong? They had better results with him.

[Captain_Carl]

What did the previous coach do wrong? They had better results with him.

Oh yes results ... winning the game. That is the measure of a good coach in youth football isn’t it? That is obviously what you believe so your question is not worth answering.

[Hunter403]

We can get a tougher comp by having 2 divisions for each age group. Bottom 2 down. 2 up 2 down each year. Incentive for everyone? Problem will be if Newfm is carving div 1 then Npl clubs will hen pick and down they go. But the whole idea is to get the best players playing top grade.

I think 2 divisions is the way to go for sure. NPL1 and NPL2. Do we tie promotion / relegation to first grade results or run the youth independent on a club championship basis?

Another one to ponder: do we have 2 x 8 team competitions?

And another: what about mid north coast, far north coast and northern inland? They have no senior NPL teams so when those players finish in under 16s, where do they go? Is it worth including them at all? (not advocating this, just points for discussion).

Should clubs have a limit placed on them for player turnover each season?

Keep the ideas coming!

[Goatscheese]

What did the previous coach do wrong? They had better results with him.

That may have been the problem, winning and being competitive isn't really what Valo do.

[Goatscheese]

I think 2 divisions is the way to go for sure. NPL1 and NPL2. Do we tie promotion / relegation to first grade results or run the youth independent on a club championship basis?

Another one to ponder: do we have 2 x 8 team competitions?

And another: what about mid north coast, far north coast and northern inland? They have no senior NPL teams so when those players finish in under 16s, where do they go? Is it worth including them at all? (not advocating this, just points for discussion).

Should clubs have a limit placed on them for player turnover each season?

Keep the ideas coming!

Would have to be either club championship or both senior and youth run separately.

[Jim]

That may have been the problem, winning and being competitive isn't really what Valo do.

lol. By the immature crybaby reply you probably right.

[Jim]

Oh yes results ... winning the game. That is the measure of a good coach in youth football isn’t it? That is obviously what you believe so your question is not worth answering.

Its a question. Stop making up retarded stories and just answer the question in football terms.