2025 Premier Youth Leagues

[Whistler Supporter]

Availability is an issue because referees are walking away because they are not being supported. Get your head out of the sand.

There is zero chance of my sons refereeing in the PYL system because there is no support or development happening. Both of my kids instead act as club referees at their local community club where they are supported, coached and feel safe. My 15 year old is beginning to take charge of all age and over 35 games because the club has deemed him competent to do so. I club referee when required. All 3 of us have done the club referees course, but there?s no chance of going into Northerns toxic environment.

Northern recently held a meeting for clubs to understand how referees are coached, graded, appointed, assessed and supported. There was a good turnout. We heard about how mentors are appointed to matches refereed by green shirt first year refs, regular coaching sessions for all referees groups (including youth), video incident presentations sent to all refs; assessors appointed to youth matches (clearly there are not enough of them); referee coaches involved in the appointments process; a referee welfare officer who contacts youth refs to check up on their match day experiences; a match day report form for refs who have a tough day to complete so they get extra support; and senior referees being appointed with youth refs to give them match day support and coaching.

To us at the meeting, that sounded like pretty decent support for refs.

I'm sure that some referee appointments will not be the right ones, but I wouldn't envy them the job of trying to cover games with limited referee numbers, especially in another season of wet weather and rescheduled matches.

The main reason i would think young refs eventually give away officiating is because of the time factor. Many will eventually put playing ahead of refereeing (fair enough). Once they get a part-time job during the football season, they don't come back to ref the next season. And anything that happens on game days that makes refereeing unenjoyable just makes it easier for refs to make the decision to do something else with their time.

[sapdad]

Availability is an issue because referees are walking away because they are not being supported. Get your head out of the sand.

There is zero chance of my sons refereeing in the PYL system because there is no support or development happening. Both of my kids instead act as club referees at their local community club where they are supported, coached and feel safe. My 15 year old is beginning to take charge of all age and over 35 games because the club has deemed him competent to do so. I club referee when required. All 3 of us have done the club referees course, but there?s no chance of going into Northerns toxic environment.

I wont go over Whistle Supporters post other than to say I agree with it completely and to add that the whole Zero Tolerance program is designed to protect and support match officials.I am sorry if your lads had a bad experience when refereeing in the NPL system and applaud them for still turning up each week to help other people enjoy a game of football.

[Addios]

Saw a NPL youth team coach gave a stern lecture a teen ref at halftime on the weekend.
Lets say their team got the win in the 2nd half due to the change in attitude. The result isnt the issue. Grooming is. Not even surprised.

An adult male wouldnt have entertained that behaviour. Just what i heard and saw.

[northern_swan]

Northern recently held a meeting for clubs to understand how referees are coached, graded, appointed, assessed and supported. There was a good turnout. We heard about how mentors are appointed to matches refereed by green shirt first year refs, regular coaching sessions for all referees groups (including youth), video incident presentations sent to all refs; assessors appointed to youth matches (clearly there are not enough of them); referee coaches involved in the appointments process; a referee welfare officer who contacts youth refs to check up on their match day experiences; a match day report form for refs who have a tough day to complete so they get extra support; and senior referees being appointed with youth refs to give them match day support and coaching.

To us at the meeting, that sounded like pretty decent support for refs.

I'm sure that some referee appointments will not be the right ones, but I wouldn't envy them the job of trying to cover games with limited referee numbers, especially in another season of wet weather and rescheduled matches.

The main reason i would think young refs eventually give away officiating is because of the time factor. Many will eventually put playing ahead of refereeing (fair enough). Once they get a part-time job during the football season, they don't come back to ref the next season. And anything that happens on game days that makes refereeing unenjoyable just makes it easier for refs to make the decision to do something else with their time.

This support sounds fantastic on paper, however is it happening in practice?
First of all, I would suggest that Northern should make this presentation available to all stakeholders (i.e. parents & players) as well. The outcome would be twofold:
1- Parents/Players become aware of what Northern are trying to achieve in the refereeing space, so that in turn perceptions (such as mine) can be changed. and.
2- Accountability. Parents will be the first to come back at Northern if they aren't "walking the talk" of referee support.

In some of the initiatives that you've mentioned, such as video incident presentations, the work is only as effective as the referee themselves "doing their homework" and watching/reviewing the footage. Those who do are obviously more likely to have better outcomes on the pitch as referees, and those who don't may not.

In my experience, very rarely if at all has there been mentors at games green shirt referees have been present. Obviously, the younger age groups tend to get more of the green shirt referees, as they all have to start somewhere. I can't recall an occasion watching Under 13s this season where there have been mentors present at my younger son's games. I can't speak for my older son's club Under 13s (my boys are at different PYL clubs) as often the times clash, so by the time that I get there the 14's game is nearly over.

The Zero Tolerance policy seems to have lessened the scourge of referee abuse. I believe the next step needs to now be working on the retention of referees. This comes down to putting the plan you've articulated into action (in my opinion, better than they are doing it now).

As for reasons for leaving, I agree that it is not as simple as abuse being the whole cause. Time (jobs, school, football, social life), poor gameday experience, up-front & ongoing costs (other sports don't require officials registration fees & heavily subsidise or give equipment for free) are all other examples of barriers to recruitment & retention of referees.


One suggestion I would make is to beef up the role of the Referee Support Officer. Having done it a few times this season and having watched others do it, there doesn't seem to be much rigor to the role and is open to manipulation. I've seen RSO's stroll out on the field scrolling through their phone, other RSO's providing a running commentary on how poorly their team is being treated and many things in between. What I'm yet to find however is a clear definition of the role and a job description to give the role a clear purpose.

Are the RSO's simply there to walk the referees on and off?
Should RSO's be intervening when coaches/managers/parents lose it?
Should RSO's be providing feedback to referees?

The Zero tolerance section of Northern's website makes the role seem very tokenistic:

4. Mandated Referee Support Officer

All clubs will be required to provide a Referee Support Officer for premier competitions matches on top of the current Duty Officer requirement. The Referee Support Officer will be clearly marked in a specific vest, supplied by NNSWF, and must remain inside the fence for the duration of the match, and escort the match officials to and from the pitch.

A question for discussion: Could or should Northern mandate that clubs have Referee Support training (as happens with similar roles in other sports)?

I am making these comments because I want to see positive change/improvement. I believe it is incumbent on Northern to do more, as I do believe the clubs/parents/players to continue to make improvements in their behaviour.

[sapdad]

One suggestion I would make is to beef up the role of the Referee Support Officer. Having done it a few times this season and having watched others do it, there doesn't seem to be much rigor to the role and is open to manipulation. I've seen RSO's stroll out on the field scrolling through their phone, other RSO's providing a running commentary on how poorly their team is being treated and many things in between. What I'm yet to find however is a clear definition of the role and a job description to give the role a clear purpose.

Are the RSO's simply there to walk the referees on and off?
Should RSO's be intervening when coaches/managers/parents lose it?
Should RSO's be providing feedback to referees?

A great observation.Because the support officer is provided by the club there is little the referees or nothern can do about it.You are correct that the majority dont need to do anything and its a token job but good on people for stepping up.There are clearly people unfit to be anywhere near the role as they not only do nothing when referees are being abused and some even join in with the abuse which is mind boggling.Theres one bloke at an NPL club who is a running joke amongst the referees group who does the job for his club most weekends and usually does a few grades at a time.He is constantly carrying on to referees about decisions and refusing to police the behaviour of his coaches.Ive seen several referees remind him of his role as a support officer for them but it does nothing.The guy is an embarrassment to his club but at the same time the club should have stepped in ages ago and not let him do the role.Im sure Northern have instructions on what the role entails but clubs need to take it seriously for it to work.

[sapdad]

Saw a NPL youth team coach gave a stern lecture a teen ref at halftime on the weekend.
Lets say their team got the win in the 2nd half due to the change in attitude. The result isnt the issue. Grooming is. Not even surprised.

An adult male wouldnt have entertained that behaviour. Just what i heard and saw.

I saw a young referee red card a coach on the weekend for abuse towards officials.Whats your point?

[sapdad]

This support sounds fantastic on paper, however is it happening in practice?

Yes it is.And if theres any young refs out there that dont feel like they are supported I can only suggest getting in touch with NNSW as they have replied and been available for every single issue my lads have had across several years of work both big and small.

[northern_swan]

A great observation.Because the support officer is provided by the club there is little the referees or nothern can do about it.You are correct that the majority dont need to do anything and its a token job but good on people for stepping up.There are clearly people unfit to be anywhere near the role as they not only do nothing when referees are being abused and some even join in with the abuse which is mind boggling.Theres one bloke at an NPL club who is a running joke amongst the referees group who does the job for his club most weekends and usually does a few grades at a time.He is constantly carrying on to referees about decisions and refusing to police the behaviour of his coaches.Ive seen several referees remind him of his role as a support officer for them but it does nothing.The guy is an embarrassment to his club but at the same time the club should have stepped in ages ago and not let him do the role.Im sure Northern have instructions on what the role entails but clubs need to take it seriously for it to work.

I think that Northern can do something about it. Coaches and Managers need an accreditation, why not create an accreditation for ref support? It could be as simple as them doing a quick tutorial outlining what the role entails, the do's & dont's and signing (even digitally) a code of conduct.

It could:
-give consistency to the role, as in the same person doing the role each match day.
-make the person doing the role accountable (and punishable) if they are displaying the behaviours you have mentioned. (I'm 90% sure I know the identity & club of individual you are talking about)
-make the club accountable to eradicate the behaviours you have mentioned.
-make the referees feel safer and more comfortable in approaching the RSO if the referees have noticed something that may have been honestly missed by the RSO

Personally, I enjoy doing the RSO role most of the time I'm asked. You get an uninterrupted view from halfway, you get to hear the coaches from up close which gives a different insight on the game (when done positively) and you are out of earshot of parents telling all & sundry how their kid is going to be the next Messi

[sapdad]

I think that Northern can do something about it. Coaches and Managers need an accreditation, why not create an accreditation for ref support? It could be as simple as them doing a quick tutorial outlining what the role entails, the do's & dont's and signing (even digitally) a code of conduct.

It could:
-give consistency to the role, as in the same person doing the role each match day.
-make the person doing the role accountable (and punishable) if they are displaying the behaviours you have mentioned. (I'm 90% sure I know the identity & club of individual you are talking about)
-make the club accountable to eradicate the behaviours you have mentioned.
-make the referees feel safer and more comfortable in approaching the RSO if the referees have noticed something that may have been honestly missed by the RSO

All good points and I can only hope that it would be on the long term wish list for Northern but theres probably a few more pressing issues in front of them right now.

[sapdad]

Personally, I enjoy doing the RSO role most of the time I'm asked. You get an uninterrupted view from halfway, you get to hear the coaches from up close which gives a different insight on the game (when done positively) and you are out of earshot of parents telling all & sundry how their kid is going to be the next Messi

[mic22]

Yep. You roll with the draws that change an hour before the game without needing a tissue box. Grand parents back seat, kids in the boot gogogo
fk ive missed some weddings due to football & cricket finals that got changed. Made the reception but. best things Ive ever done.

Thank you, tough man

[Jim]

Thank you, tough man

Tough man? you mean normal person

[sapdad]

I see the mid season split has seen a bit of player movement again this year.Sounds like its just going to be how it is from now on.For the record I dont have an issue with it.

[Taffy]

I heard with two clubs movements occurred because the coach was fired and those players weren't happy with that.

[Addios]

When is the rego cutoff?

[mic22]

I've heard of a coach sacking (or similar) at a DivA U13 team and if true... just wow.

[sapdad]

When is the rego cutoff?

I thought it was June 30.Not 100% sure though.

[Addios]

I saw a young referee red card a coach on the weekend for abuse towards officials.Whats your point?

Ok for you morons who cant comprehend english then get all defensive.

Point was the coach was allowed to try to influence a game and pressure the young ref to favour his team.
Why are coaches or team officals getting away with this. NNSW should be ensuring no club is pressuring the ref.

[sapdad]

Ok for you morons who cant comprehend english then get all defensive.

Point was the coach was allowed to try to influence a game and pressure the young ref to favour his team.
Why are coaches or team officals getting away with this. NNSW should be ensuring no club is pressuring the ref.

And my point was that you named one example that in your opinion was a young referee being influenced by a coaches behaviour(it is possible that the other team just played better in the second half and won the game fairly).My point is that there are many cases with factual evidence of young referees not being intimidated by coaches.So across the hundreds of games per weekend you are upset by one instance then thats fine but dont disregard the rest of the games that are done at the appropriate level.So if you are after perfection in the refereeing ranks then thats great but can we also get rid of the players,coaches and parents that arent good enough as well?

[prawnhead]

And my point was that you named one example that in your opinion was a young referee being influenced by a coaches behaviour(it is possible that the other team just played better in the second half and won the game fairly).My point is that there are many cases with factual evidence of young referees not being intimidated by coaches.So across the hundreds of games per weekend you are upset by one instance then thats fine but dont disregard the rest of the games that are done at the appropriate level.So if you are after perfection in the refereeing ranks then thats great but can we also get rid of the players,coaches and parents that arent good enough as well?

Can you please hit the space button after finishing your sentences with a full stop. Your posts are sometimes hard to read.