As of Tuesday.Adamstown v West Wallsend,Magic v Jaffas,Cooks Hill v Belswans,Weston v NIAS.In the past there have been plenty of solutions found between Tuesday and gameday so I doubt all of these fixtures will end up with no referees.Originally Posted by Taffy
Only 2 clubs?
The latest I have heard is that an appeal by the Referees Department to referees to make themselves available on Sunday has had some success. At least 3 of the 5 grounds originally without referees are now likely to get them. I would think that no-one in the Referee Department would like even one ground going without refs.
I really think these young referees are being set up to fail by Northern, so it’s unsurprising that availability is an issue. There was an U15 kid put in the centre of an U15 game on the weekend who had played against one of the teams 7 days earlier & the other team 18 days earlier. That puts a 14/15 year old kid in a very difficult situation, especially when there’s nothing put in place by means of support such as an older/more experienced person as an AR or a referee coach/mentor.
This goes further than zero tolerance. This goes to setting up a framework for referees that provides an adequate level of support and training, just like any other workplace.
So you would prefer a parent of one of the kids playing,or a club official of one of the teams playing?How about everyone not start their day convinced the referees are out to get them and cheat their little Johnny out of a win.Trust me the referees department are trying their best to make it as fair as possible.But some people need to maybe understand that the referees and players dont take it anywhere near as seriously as the parents and coaches all assuming the refs are cheats.
Availability is an issue because most refs are players and are otherwise busy and there arent enough refs because players and parents would rather complain than do the course and grab a whistle.Its not that deep mate.Far from setting them up to fail,Northern are pretty much the only ones out there supporting the match officials.
Since you’ve selectively quoted my comment, I’ll reiterate my key points:
That puts a 14/15 year old kid in a very difficult situation, especially when there’s nothing put in place by means of support such as an older/more experienced person as an AR or a referee coach/mentor.
Northern need to set up a framework for referees that provides an adequate level of support and training, just like any other workplace.
-Putting a kid out there to referee a game that has a team he played against 7 days prior is setting him up to fail.
-Having little to no game day coaching & mentoring is setting the young referees up to fail
I’ll add:
- Putting young referees out in high pressure games without enough experience and confidence is setting them up to fail
- Promoting young referees to higher age groups on a desperation basis rather than a competency basis is setting them up to fail.
It has nothing to do with an inference of cheating that I did not make. Nor did anyone else to my knowledge make a link to cheating.
My older son went and watched the game in question (he plays in that competition and watched the previous meeting where it ended up in punches being thrown) and was astounded that northern would put the young lad in that difficult spot. Players in the game (some of them referees themselves) made similar statements to my son after the match. So your assertion that the referees and players don’t take such negligence seriously is absolute rolled gold bullshit.
And as for the opening line - “So you would prefer a parent of one of the kids playing,or a club official of one of the teams playing?” In the case I’ve outlined above and in more than one instance I’ve observed with my younger sons u13 team, the answer is yes.
Yes I would absolutely prefer a parent/club official from either team refereeing the game, because as it stands, I believe it is only a matter of time before the negligent performance of the Northern NSW football referees department is going to end in a serious injury to a player, or another mass exit of referees who are under trained, under supported and massively out of their depth.
It has nothing to do with cheating, parent behaviour or coaches behaviour, zero tolerance or any other slogan you want to come up with. However it has everything to do with a negligent work environment for young referees.
Availability is an issue because referees are walking away because they are not being supported. Get your head out of the sand.
There is zero chance of my sons refereeing in the PYL system because there is no support or development happening. Both of my kids instead act as club referees at their local community club where they are supported, coached and feel safe. My 15 year old is beginning to take charge of all age and over 35 games because the club has deemed him competent to do so. I club referee when required. All 3 of us have done the club referees course, but there’s no chance of going into Northerns toxic environment.
Northern recently held a meeting for clubs to understand how referees are coached, graded, appointed, assessed and supported. There was a good turnout. We heard about how mentors are appointed to matches refereed by green shirt first year refs, regular coaching sessions for all referees groups (including youth), video incident presentations sent to all refs; assessors appointed to youth matches (clearly there are not enough of them); referee coaches involved in the appointments process; a referee welfare officer who contacts youth refs to check up on their match day experiences; a match day report form for refs who have a tough day to complete so they get extra support; and senior referees being appointed with youth refs to give them match day support and coaching.
To us at the meeting, that sounded like pretty decent support for refs.
I'm sure that some referee appointments will not be the right ones, but I wouldn't envy them the job of trying to cover games with limited referee numbers, especially in another season of wet weather and rescheduled matches.
The main reason i would think young refs eventually give away officiating is because of the time factor. Many will eventually put playing ahead of refereeing (fair enough). Once they get a part-time job during the football season, they don't come back to ref the next season. And anything that happens on game days that makes refereeing unenjoyable just makes it easier for refs to make the decision to do something else with their time.
I wont go over Whistle Supporters post other than to say I agree with it completely and to add that the whole Zero Tolerance program is designed to protect and support match officials.I am sorry if your lads had a bad experience when refereeing in the NPL system and applaud them for still turning up each week to help other people enjoy a game of football.
Saw a NPL youth team coach gave a stern lecture a teen ref at halftime on the weekend.
Lets say their team got the win in the 2nd half due to the change in attitude. The result isnt the issue. Grooming is. Not even surprised.
An adult male wouldnt have entertained that behaviour. Just what i heard and saw.
Last edited by Addios; 20-06-2025 at 10:21 AM.
This support sounds fantastic on paper, however is it happening in practice?
First of all, I would suggest that Northern should make this presentation available to all stakeholders (i.e. parents & players) as well. The outcome would be twofold:
1- Parents/Players become aware of what Northern are trying to achieve in the refereeing space, so that in turn perceptions (such as mine) can be changed. and.
2- Accountability. Parents will be the first to come back at Northern if they aren't "walking the talk" of referee support.
In some of the initiatives that you've mentioned, such as video incident presentations, the work is only as effective as the referee themselves "doing their homework" and watching/reviewing the footage. Those who do are obviously more likely to have better outcomes on the pitch as referees, and those who don't may not.
In my experience, very rarely if at all has there been mentors at games green shirt referees have been present. Obviously, the younger age groups tend to get more of the green shirt referees, as they all have to start somewhere. I can't recall an occasion watching Under 13s this season where there have been mentors present at my younger son's games. I can't speak for my older son's club Under 13s (my boys are at different PYL clubs) as often the times clash, so by the time that I get there the 14's game is nearly over.
The Zero Tolerance policy seems to have lessened the scourge of referee abuse. I believe the next step needs to now be working on the retention of referees. This comes down to putting the plan you've articulated into action (in my opinion, better than they are doing it now).
As for reasons for leaving, I agree that it is not as simple as abuse being the whole cause. Time (jobs, school, football, social life), poor gameday experience, up-front & ongoing costs (other sports don't require officials registration fees & heavily subsidise or give equipment for free) are all other examples of barriers to recruitment & retention of referees.
One suggestion I would make is to beef up the role of the Referee Support Officer. Having done it a few times this season and having watched others do it, there doesn't seem to be much rigor to the role and is open to manipulation. I've seen RSO's stroll out on the field scrolling through their phone, other RSO's providing a running commentary on how poorly their team is being treated and many things in between. What I'm yet to find however is a clear definition of the role and a job description to give the role a clear purpose.
Are the RSO's simply there to walk the referees on and off?
Should RSO's be intervening when coaches/managers/parents lose it?
Should RSO's be providing feedback to referees?
The Zero tolerance section of Northern's website makes the role seem very tokenistic:
A question for discussion: Could or should Northern mandate that clubs have Referee Support training (as happens with similar roles in other sports)?4. Mandated Referee Support Officer
All clubs will be required to provide a Referee Support Officer for premier competitions matches on top of the current Duty Officer requirement. The Referee Support Officer will be clearly marked in a specific vest, supplied by NNSWF, and must remain inside the fence for the duration of the match, and escort the match officials to and from the pitch.
I am making these comments because I want to see positive change/improvement. I believe it is incumbent on Northern to do more, as I do believe the clubs/parents/players to continue to make improvements in their behaviour.
A great observation.Because the support officer is provided by the club there is little the referees or nothern can do about it.You are correct that the majority dont need to do anything and its a token job but good on people for stepping up.There are clearly people unfit to be anywhere near the role as they not only do nothing when referees are being abused and some even join in with the abuse which is mind boggling.Theres one bloke at an NPL club who is a running joke amongst the referees group who does the job for his club most weekends and usually does a few grades at a time.He is constantly carrying on to referees about decisions and refusing to police the behaviour of his coaches.Ive seen several referees remind him of his role as a support officer for them but it does nothing.The guy is an embarrassment to his club but at the same time the club should have stepped in ages ago and not let him do the role.Im sure Northern have instructions on what the role entails but clubs need to take it seriously for it to work.
I saw a young referee red card a coach on the weekend for abuse towards officials.Whats your point?
Yes it is.And if theres any young refs out there that dont feel like they are supported I can only suggest getting in touch with NNSW as they have replied and been available for every single issue my lads have had across several years of work both big and small.
I think that Northern can do something about it. Coaches and Managers need an accreditation, why not create an accreditation for ref support? It could be as simple as them doing a quick tutorial outlining what the role entails, the do's & dont's and signing (even digitally) a code of conduct.
It could:
-give consistency to the role, as in the same person doing the role each match day.
-make the person doing the role accountable (and punishable) if they are displaying the behaviours you have mentioned. (I'm 90% sure I know the identity & club of individual you are talking about)
-make the club accountable to eradicate the behaviours you have mentioned.
-make the referees feel safer and more comfortable in approaching the RSO if the referees have noticed something that may have been honestly missed by the RSO
Personally, I enjoy doing the RSO role most of the time I'm asked. You get an uninterrupted view from halfway, you get to hear the coaches from up close which gives a different insight on the game (when done positively) and you are out of earshot of parents telling all & sundry how their kid is going to be the next Messi
All good points and I can only hope that it would be on the long term wish list for Northern but theres probably a few more pressing issues in front of them right now.
Personally, I enjoy doing the RSO role most of the time I'm asked. You get an uninterrupted view from halfway, you get to hear the coaches from up close which gives a different insight on the game (when done positively) and you are out of earshot of parents telling all & sundry how their kid is going to be the next Messi
Thank you, tough man
Tough man? you mean normal personThank you, tough man
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