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Thread: Supporter Ownership.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Blackmac79's Avatar
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    Supporter Ownership.

    The idea of Supporter Ownership has been thrown around since Con left. There are many positives to the supporters owning part of our club. To name but a few:

    - Ensuring close links between club and supporter community
    - Protecting the club from the dangers of single entity ownership
    - Protecting the identity of the club (e.g. Cardiff City)
    - Facilitating links between the club and the wider community
    - Creation of a true community asset, a tangible part of Newcastle culture.
    - Ensuring the club is around for future generations.

    Goals are important. These must be reasonable and achievable. For example it would be ill advised to go out planning to own the entire club, we would be better off aiming to own part of the club (e.g Swansea City which is owned 20% by the Swans Trust).

    The swans trust have worked effectively with the help of an organisation in England called Supporters Direct to position themselves and enable the purchase and maintenance of an appropriate level of ownership for the size of the club. Their aims are similar to what ours should be from the outset of any potential fan ownership group:

    • To maintain a professional Football League club in Swansea
    • To bring the football club closer to its local community
    • To have an elected supporters representative on the Board of Swansea City Football Club
    • To raise sufficient funds to buy a stake in the club, in pursuance of the aims above


    *http://www.swanstrust.co.uk/trust-aims/

    Obviously we change the name of the club and the location to suit our particulars but these are simple achievable aims.

    Supporters Direct, as I have already mentioned are an organisation that helps facilitate fan ownership groups in over 20 different countries. IN the past when talking about fan ownership they have offered to fly people from the UK out to Australia to assist in the first stage of taking a part in the club, and giving us guidance on how to do this. They have assisted in getting the fans of the club to have at least one director on the board in 75 clubs in the UK and several others around the world. They would be willing to help us achieve this here.

    So how do we go about getting to a point where we can own part of the club?

    It starts with forming a new democratic organisation. This can take two forms, either as a Co-operative or as an Incorporated Association. The rules and constitution of the organisation would be designed to ensure that a) The organisation would aim towards owning a portion of the club, and b) failing that would use its resources to further the sport in the hunter region.

    Information on these structures and how they work legally can be found here: http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ft...ciations.page?

    The biggest hurdle to any fan ownership is the license fee that the FFA may ask. This upfront amount of money would be prohibitive to the organisation of fans purchasing the club. To circumvent this issue, were the organisation to take a stake from the outset of the new ownership structure, the FFA would need to ratify and encourage the organisation and as a sign of good faith, in the benefit and security that ownership of this kind brings, gift the percentage to the fans. This gift would be a percentage based on the foreseeable capacity of ownership the organisation could handle, be it 5-50%.

    Success of the new organisation would hinge on the FFA's willingness to be involved with the implementation, and their help to facilitate a broader base of ownership of the club within our community. It is important however that the independence of the organisation from the club and the FFA, and other interested parties be maintained. This requires much good will and faith from all sides.

    I believe the Newcastle would fit nicely into an experiment of supporter ownership which could become the normal throughout the A-league. We have a strong, proud community, who have patriarchal links to our city and our club. This would ensure that there will always be a professional team in Newcastle, and that football in this region will always thrive.
    Go jetties

  2. #2
    in awe of baz GazFish35's Avatar
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    from the presser today!

    The licence for the A-League club in Newcastle is being operated by FFA while ownership models are being explored.



    ownership models.






    that's gotta mean they're considering something other than the big rich bloke paying all the bills then going broke.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Blackmac79's Avatar
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    I spoke to one individual from within "the organisation" of football in Australia about this at the forum last night.

    It appears as if their modelling for the future of the Newcastle Jet's includes a supporter's Trust element. However this also appears dependent on the new ownerships support for the same. (FFA don't want to be stuck with 80% of the club if they give 20% to the fans, don't think this would be an issue, but I am not FFA).

    Concerns I have about their modelling and what was discussed with me on the night:

    - The independence of a new association/cooperative from the FFA/Club is paramount to the success of a supporters trust. This means such an organisation needs to be built from within the supporter base. The current way the FFA is going about this, and I hope that myself and others may be able to prompt them to change this approach, is to model it, build it, and hope the fans join, it would be doomed to fail.
    - The costings are always going to be a sticky issue. One individual suggested that shares in such a scheme should be $500 each. Let me be very clear on this, this is not how any supporter ownership should be set up. Being accessible to as many people as possible, if you earn $10/hr or $80/hr. No individual should be priced out of the club.

    Where to from here:

    If I was the FFA/Club, and I were to show that I was serious, I would do the following.

    - Meet with the current sub-committee, and discuss their current modeling, and allow the fans to have input into this. Accurate modelling on their part is obviously going to increase our chances of this becoming plausible.
    - Ask for assistance from the club to arrange a specific supporters trust meeting. where rules, mission, and ideas can be expressed from many individuals.
    Go jetties

  4. #4
    Senior Member Blackmac79's Avatar
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    On this front I have sent an email to my contacts at Supporters Direct and Coops Australia.
    Go jetties

  5. #5
    Senior Member WolfMan's Avatar
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    Good stuff Blackmac. I agree that the general meeting last night probably wasn't the time to get into the specifics of the plan etc. but it has to happen now as a separate function.

    Let us know if any further meetings are organised and how we can help.

  6. #6
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    Interesting thing to come out of last night when the straw poll was done on whether the people would put their hands in their pocket.

    Besides the people raising both hands was that there were a fair few there who didn't put their hand up. Considering the people there last night can be deemed pretty committed to the cause and not plastic fans like the other 9700 people who didn't show there was still far too many people not on board the idea of fan ownership.

    Being we also had a lady spruiking the need for cheap memberships to continue you could argue that there are far too many people still who seem to think OUR club will succeed whilst none of us reach into our pockets and contribute.

    To me the independence from the club/FFA isn't that big of an issue.

    Biggest issue to me is to get people on board the plan.

    Simplest solution to me is to tax each and everyone of our fans who pay their Memberships a set figure each year to fund the Supporters Trust. Whatever the club wishes to charge for Season Tickets(Membership) throw say $50 per person on top of it.

    10k of Members with $50 per person coming in = $500k a season.
    That 500k easily pays for the 20% stake in running the club going off DeBohun's 1 million loss he brought up last night

    To me it is a case of this needs forcing on people.
    A lot will not cough up until they see tangible evidence of value for money etc.

    Take the decision away from them.
    They want to get a season ticket then they get Membership and voting rights as well as tickets to 13 HAL games.

    Lets remember we do this and we are offering something that no other HAL club offers. A legitimate voice and an ACTUAL ownership by the fans.


    May well be a socialist idea but reality is we do not have enough dedicated people who will contribute to get this off the ground without enforcing it on all our fans

  7. #7
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Interesting thing to come out of last night when the straw poll was done on whether the people would put their hands in their pocket.

    Besides the people raising both hands was that there were a fair few there who didn't put their hand up. Considering the people there last night can be deemed pretty committed to the cause and not plastic fans like the other 9700 people who didn't show there was still far too many people not on board the idea of fan ownership.

    Being we also had a lady spruiking the need for cheap memberships to continue you could argue that there are far too many people still who seem to think OUR club will succeed whilst none of us reach into our pockets and contribute.

    To me the independence from the club/FFA isn't that big of an issue.

    Biggest issue to me is to get people on board the plan.

    Simplest solution to me is to tax each and everyone of our fans who pay their Memberships a set figure each year to fund the Supporters Trust. Whatever the club wishes to charge for Season Tickets(Membership) throw say $50 per person on top of it.

    10k of Members with $50 per person coming in = $500k a season.
    That 500k easily pays for the 20% stake in running the club going off DeBohun's 1 million loss he brought up last night

    To me it is a case of this needs forcing on people.
    A lot will not cough up until they see tangible evidence of value for money etc.

    Take the decision away from them.
    They want to get a season ticket then they get Membership and voting rights as well as tickets to 13 HAL games.

    Lets remember we do this and we are offering something that no other HAL club offers. A legitimate voice and an ACTUAL ownership by the fans.


    May well be a socialist idea but reality is we do not have enough dedicated people who will contribute to get this off the ground without enforcing it on all our fans
    I do like the concept of this plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  8. #8
    Senior Member WolfMan's Avatar
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    Good points, well made MFKS.

    The membership levy (for want of a better term) would have to solely apply to members of voting age though. Children can't be expected to stump up the cash with no rights showing for it.

    So your initial figure of 10k can almost be halved by my estimation.

    I agree that incorporating it into the membership is a quality idea.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Premy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfMan View Post
    Good points, well made MFKS.

    The membership levy (for want of a better term) would have to solely apply to members of voting age though. Children can't be expected to stump up the cash with no rights showing for it.

    So your initial figure of 10k can almost be halved by my estimation.

    I agree that incorporating it into the membership is a quality idea.
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by the_butcher View Post
    I support the NCIP

  10. #10
    Senior Member Beeen's Avatar
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    minus another few hundred pet memberships
    We have said publicly that we will be targeting a marquee and our stance has not changed, Murphy said.

    31/3/15

  11. #11
    Senior Member WolfMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beeen View Post
    minus another few hundred pet memberships
    No way! Pets can vote and stuff

  12. #12
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfMan View Post
    No way! Pets can vote and stuff
    "and if the lefites get their way you'll be allowed to marry them and everything" - Cory Bernardi
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  13. #13
    in awe of baz GazFish35's Avatar
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    Demographic of the people I. The room might suggest many present would rather invest in retirement plans than football clubs. Average age was well into the sixties.

    Had a great chat to a couple old cools dudes in the Carpark, kb and breakers fans from way way back.

    I agree the lack of hands that went up when asked about contributing cash was low, but I honestly believe the younger demographic not represented in big numbers last night would see greater support.

  14. #14
    Senior Member WolfMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazFish35 View Post
    Demographic of the people I. The room might suggest many present would rather invest in retirement plans than football clubs. Average age was well into the sixties.

    Had a great chat to a couple old cools dudes in the Carpark, kb and breakers fans from way way back.

    I agree the lack of hands that went up when asked about contributing cash was low, but I honestly believe the younger demographic not represented in big numbers last night would see greater support.
    I figured the lack of hands shown in regards to fronting the money was due to apprehension.

    I for one won't blindly throw cash at the club. The construction and integration of Supporter Ownership would have to align with my ideals.

    Had the same question been asked when a stable ownership was in charge, we probably would have seen a much greater show of hands.

  15. #15
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    no way will many supporters pay an extra forced subsidy on top of another waste of money membership after the sh1t they have endured over the last 6yrs.

    Any supporter ownership share price will have to be affordable ie under $500

  16. #16
    Senior Member Blackmac79's Avatar
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    Supporter membership fees into any organisation that owns the club MUST be affordable.

    The idea of charging someone $500 to be part of a supporter ownership group is ludicrous. Funds can be found in other ways, through sponsorships, donations, community support, fundraising.

    Look at capital raising schemes like FC United did to build Broadhurst Park. Or Pompey Trust did to purchase their club is probably the best example of what we should try and do to raise the capital.

    I see it like this.

    Our aim is to currently have what Swansea have (www.Swanstrust.co.uk)
    We charge an appropriate fee (to take from a supporter lead ticket price campaigne) $20 is plenty, to own your club.
    Fundraising is conducted through the various means available ala pompey trust (www.pompeytrust.com)

    There is a model that is working, not just in England but throughout Europe. To move away from this model would be foolish, why reinvent the wheel. Slowly the idea of single entity ownership is breaking down. I encourage people who are interested to read the supporters Direct website (www.supporters-direct.org) and find out more about how it works.
    Go jetties

  17. #17
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    could not make the forum but was watching from home, intently.

    Have spoken to a few of my mates, whom are members, and they would certainly be interested in putting up a some of money.
    In fact I have had this chat recently with an older member and he had been divising plans himself.

    I think you would be incredibly surprised by the number of people willing to put money into such a venture. $500 would border on the lesser side of values discussed.

    The idea, however, of a 'levy' which is itemised in your membership package would be a better idea than depending on the same 100-200 people. You would think one day that a membership base of 20-30k would not be unrealistic.. Facilitating a quite potentially sizeable continual investment in the club.

    Look forward to seeing this concept gain further traction.
    Last edited by rhysd; 20-06-2015 at 09:25 PM.

  18. #18
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    nah, the cost will be way lower. low enough for most supporters to jump on board if they feel they can still put some trust in the club. I think we are on our way this time. the club that is.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawk View Post
    nah, the cost will be way lower. low enough for most supporters to jump on board if they feel they can still put some trust in the club. I think we are on our way this time. the club that is.
    We're on our way this time??

    What is that a similie to say we are finally moving forward??

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    We're on our way this time??

    What is that a similie to say we are finally moving forward??
    haha yes

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