Insert Name Here aka The Ownership Thread

[furns]

Forget facilities, are we spending similar to other clubs on support and backroom staff. If we are not sufficiently resourced there compared to other clubs we will not be giving the players the dedicated support they need to do their best no matter how much we pump into the salary cap and marquees.

Spending isn't isolated to the playing roster. You need to spend to support the players, this is what we don't do and is probably a factor in why we have so many injuries all the time.

This is where we do need money and I believe we haven't been spending it. The Jets under tinker have been largely under resourced in terms of backroom support staff.

Absolutely correct. Just in terms of front office staff, with Robbie and Gerard leaving we are almost at single digits.
Gypos have nearly double that, WSW and Roar have nearly four times the number of staff we have.
I would surmise that ancillary coaching staff (physios, masseuses, nutrionists/dieticians, strength & conditioning, etc) would be another area where we are hugely under-resourced. And would go a long way to explaining why we are in our current table position.

[plague]

I'm shocked no one has brought up a recent example of a team like Man U who have possibly the best resources and highest paid team out there yet seemingly with the change of 1 key person went from top to mid table and (arguably) haven't recovered.

You could argue that Man U would have kept going backwards regardless of how much more was spent on players/facilities as long as Moyes was there.

[furns]

I'm shocked no one has brought up a recent example of a team like Man U who have possibly the best resources and highest paid team out there yet seemingly with the change of 1 key person went from top to mid table and (arguably) haven't recovered.

You could argue that Man U would have kept going backwards regardless of how much more was spent on players/facilities as long as Moyes was there.

Err incorrect. ManU also lost their chief executive when fergie left, and when they hired Moyes he replaced most of the coaching staff with his own boys who had the same experience he had at a top 4 club ie zero. It was an entirely new coaching team and a new chief exec who couldn't sign the players they needed, hence why it all went pear shaped.

[plague]

Err incorrect. ManU also lost their chief executive when fergie left, and when they hired Moyes he replaced most of the coaching staff with his own boys who had the same experience he had at a top 4 club ie zero. It was an entirely new coaching team and a new chief exec who couldn't sign the players they needed, hence why it all went pear shaped.

So what you're saying is that it isn't just the amount of money, but how it's spent.
Cool, that's what I've been saying all along.

[redwah]

I'm shocked no one has brought up a recent example of a team like Man U who have possibly the best resources and highest paid team out there yet seemingly with the change of 1 key person went from top to mid table and (arguably) haven't recovered.

You could argue that Man U would have kept going backwards regardless of how much more was spent on players/facilities as long as Moyes was there.

It's just a shame that they didn't keep Moyes on for the length of his contract...football genius.

[sammydog]

So what you're saying is that it isn't just the amount of money, but how it's spent.
Cool, that's what I've been saying all along.

If you are spending the same as other clubs, yes how you spend it is a consideration.

We though, are not spending money on backroom and support staff. If your not spending it, how you spend it becomes a bit irrelevant.

[plague]

If you are spending the same as other clubs, yes how you spend it is a consideration.

We though, are not spending money on backroom and support staff. If your not spending it, how you spend it becomes a bit irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant?
Moyes spent the most money United had ever spent (until LVG turned up) and turned them to tripe.

I'll say it again.
More money would obviously be great, I don't know anyone disputing this (ok maybe Member but legit, that bloke is bonkers).
Giving people who make bad decisions with money more money doesn't make them make better decisions.

[GazFish35]

Absolutely correct. Just in terms of front office staff, with Robbie and Gerard leaving we are almost at single digits.
Gypos have nearly double that, WSW and Roar have nearly four times the number of staff we have.
I would surmise that ancillary coaching staff (physios, masseuses, nutrionists/dieticians, strength & conditioning, etc) would be another area where we are hugely under-resourced. And would go a long way to explaining why we are in our current table position.

WSW is not that big.
Still twice us, but not four times.

[MFKS]

How is it irrelevant?
Moyes spent the most money United had ever spent (until LVG turned up) and turned them to tripe.

I'll say it again.
More money would obviously be great, I don't know anyone disputing this (ok maybe Member but legit, that bloke is bonkers).
Giving people who make bad decisions with money more money doesn't make them make better decisions.

Gee whiz Plague you put it so well. You are actually seeing shit through my eyes but are able to say it so much better than I can ever do.

Well done

[sammydog]

How is it irrelevant?
Moyes spent the most money United had ever spent (until LVG turned up) and turned them to tripe.

I'll say it again.
More money would obviously be great, I don't know anyone disputing this (ok maybe Member but legit, that bloke is bonkers).
Giving people who make bad decisions with money more money doesn't make them make better decisions.

Its irrelevant to our argument as we aren't spending any money. You can't argue we need to spend it better when you don't spend it to start with.

I couldn't give a flying **** what Man U are spending. Thats comparing apples to oranges.

Fact is, we need to spend more than we are on support staff. Continue on as we are with skeleton staff in the back room and support and we will always struggle on the pitch.

[plague]

Its irrelevant to our argument as we aren't spending any money. You can't argue we need to spend it better when you don't spend it to start with.

I couldn't give a flying **** what Man U are spending. Thats comparing apples to oranges.

Fact is, we need to spend more than we are on support staff. Continue on as we are with skeleton staff in the back room and support and we will always struggle on the pitch.

You're right.
More money = more Bridges comebacks, more Galloway and more Dineaway visits.

Good for the game IMO.

Pony up Tinks.
Salvation is at hand.

[plague]

Gee whiz Plague you put it so well. You are actually seeing shit through my eyes but are able to say it so much better than I can ever do.

Well done

Yeah **** that I'm out, I don't want to live in this world.
Back to the Politics thread for me.

Peace.

[sammydog]

You're right.
More money = more Bridges comebacks, more Galloway and more Dineaway visits.

Good for the game IMO.

Pony up Tinks.
Salvation is at hand.

See, you are still seeing spending money as equating to spending it on the playing roster. Thats not at all what I am saying.

[plague]

See, you are still seeing spending money as equating to spending it on the playing roster. Thats not at all what I am saying.

Nah, I know what your point is and for the most part I agree.
(I've been saying it all through this thread).
I am just waiting for people to explain what we need to spend the extra cash on Tis all.

I want facts i.e. "MV have (x) physios but we only have (y) so that's where we are behind" etc etc etc.

Everyone's just saying "more". I'm asking for a little detail.
Didn't think that's too much to ask.

But then Member paid me a compliment and my head exploded so I can't be here anymore

[GazFish35]

I had a quick look at the "team" page on a few club websites, as they sometimes list the coaching/football staff too.

Us: Phil and 3 others -all ex players listed as coaches
Victree: Muscat, and about 10 others.... Physio's , high performance managers etc, DOF's
radelaide: josep, and about 10 others..... See above
Perf: Kenny and 5 others.
Fc: Arnold and 7 more
CCM: moss and 5
WSW: popovic plus 3
City: jvs plus 2
Nux: Merrick plus 2 (but only one team)
Roar: no-one, not even a head coach.


Hardly scientific I know, but points to a smaller investment than others.




I'd like to see a football staff consist of a head coach, two assistants (complimenting the HC's weaknesses, a GK coach, a strength and conditioning expert (not an ex player with no experience) physio, masseuse, high performance manager and a DOF.

[plague]

I had a quick look at the "team" page on a few club websites, as they sometimes list the coaching/football staff too.

Us: Phil and 3 others -all ex players listed as coaches
Victree: Muscat, and about 10 others.... Physio's , high performance managers etc, DOF's
radelaide: josep, and about 10 others..... See above
Perf: Kenny and 5 others.
Fc: Arnold and 7 more
CCM: moss and 5
WSW: popovic plus 3
City: jvs plus 2
Nux: Merrick plus 2 (but only one team)
Roar: no-one, not even a head coach.


Hardly scientific I know, but points to a smaller investment than others.




I'd like to see a football staff consist of a head coach, two assistants (complimenting the HC's weaknesses, a GK coach, a strength and conditioning expert (not an ex player with no experience) physio, masseuse, high performance manager and a DOF.

See, this is the kind of stuff that's helpful.
Although as you said some of the teams numbers seem a little odd (I think we all know that City has more than 2 staff) cheers for posting.

I know that when Tinks first took over he was using the same physio company that the Knights used so effectively we had (from memory) 4 or 5 'physios' but they were by no means full time with our team.
I'm pretty sure they use different people now so no idea how many they have access to.
No doubt it's way less though.

[redwah]

You're right.
More money = more Bridges comebacks, more Galloway and more Dineaway visits.

Good for the game IMO.

Pony up Tinks.
Salvation is at hand.

Honestly can anyone say that if we had more money to spend those doing the spending would make the same choices.....it looks like with decisions like the GVE reappointment and extension but we're those decisions made with financial constraints in place or were they made freely?

If the decisions you mention and things like GVE's second coming were freely made then yeah those making those choices and spending the money should be replaced.

In my opinion more money allows for better quality people In All positions, be that decision makers, technical or playing staff. The buck stops with the man with the money who appoints those people that make the decisions all along. My argument has always been that if the club had more money the people making the decisions wouldn't be those that have been, thus hopefully getting better decision making and better spending along the way. All this would, as im sure many would like, see some form of cultural shift. Alas whilst tinkler is the money man none of this will happen.

[Jeterpool]

I agree with you Redwah.

I think one example is the replacement of the coach this year. I think if we had the money we'd have gone with Arnold instead of Stubbins.

We'd have purchased a Marquee because Arnold wanted that as a part of the deal to come here.

Did we replace Karl Dodd? I know we were looking were looking at Andrew Packer.

And I think we'd have signed Erik Paartalu.

And finally, the membership cards would have been thicker.

[pv4]

Did we replace Karl Dodd? I know we were looking were looking at Andrew Packer.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/23...ry-discipline/

[plague]

Honestly can anyone say that if we had more money to spend those doing the spending would make the same choices.....it looks like with decisions like the GVE reappointment and extension but we're those decisions made with financial constraints in place or were they made freely?

If the decisions you mention and things like GVE's second coming were freely made then yeah those making those choices and spending the money should be replaced.

In my opinion more money allows for better quality people In All positions, be that decision makers, technical or playing staff. The buck stops with the man with the money who appoints those people that make the decisions all along. My argument has always been that if the club had more money the people making the decisions wouldn't be those that have been, thus hopefully getting better decision making and better spending along the way. All this would, as im sure many would like, see some form of cultural shift. Alas whilst tinkler is the money man none of this will happen.

Chalk up another person who disagrees with me by agreeing with me.

Well said.