100% the kid is a gun and the coach knows it but the TD making all the decisions. My understanding is the kid is leaving to play NPL1 in Sydney?.Originally Posted by Taffy
100% the kid is a gun and the coach knows it but the TD making all the decisions. My understanding is the kid is leaving to play NPL1 in Sydney?.
Good on him, hopefully he does well.
What a joke this is. Youre just defensive as your kid is a ref. The amount of BS your hearing to what actually happens is a joke.
Many times this year in YPL the ref has been out of their depth. The instructor is pretending that they are competent. This isnt the grade they should be practicing. Again for your ignorance Northern is putting kids where they arent ready, not the refs fault.
Go back to JDL or community and get confidence. Too many games have become a farce where the more physical team can kick their way to a win or commit fouls and get away with it.
Some refs aren't making any decisions. They're too scared to blow the whistle.
I also see the games through 3 different perspectives across multiple age groups every weekend so theres plenty more players/refs and coaches I see apart from my own.I hope one day someone explains to you why referees are leading games at this level at this age.But then again it seems you are a massive part of the reason why this is happening so I doubt you would care.Also,refs cant 'just go back to community' but you would have known that if you had any understanding of how the program works.If you also had any clue you would know that community and JDL parents are just as big a set of clowns towards referees as YPL parents are and they are just as clueless when it comes to the rules of the game.But apart from that,great post.
The refs should not be blamed but nnsw should. They are ruining the games by letting young inexperienced kids ref matches. In many instances letting kids that play the same age group in same competition which is a recipe for disaster. Where else in the world would you see a ref from same competition officiate rival teams games? What could go wrong ����*♂️
I agree that this is not a great look but I dont think it happens all that often.It seems to happen more in the 15s/16s age group and there is a reason why but unless you want me to bore you then I wont explain.Its hard to have a direct policy when kids have played across different clubs with different coaches and teammates over the years they are always going to be officiating their rivals and friends especially when you take geography into it.Harder to have 'neutral' refs in places like Tamworth/Mid Coast and even up the Valley.It makes it hard when coaches go into games complaining that a ref is going to cheat them out of a game because 'reasons',if thats the starting point then theres no chance of anyone thinking the ref has done any good (unless they win then all of a sudden the ref isnt that bad).
First of all, IMO ref's should be starting at community to gain confidence and skills in a less pressured environment than going straight into JDL or PYL and having to deal with the dribble from the coaches & parents that go with that level of competition. This would also allow them to go "back to" community and gain skills at a higher age group before going up through the grades at the PYL level.
Secondly, refs under the NNSW banner are prohibited from doing community football even if they are available, and I'm aware of refs at this level who have been told they are not allowed to act as a club ref at community games even when NNSWF have not appointed them, leading to competent official referees sitting on the sideline while community clubs madly scramble to get the volunteer off the BBQ to get a whistle and take control of a game.
Finally, as a parent of two boys, one who has gone through JDL & is now in PYL, while the other has played MiniRoos & now Interdistrict, I am struggling to recall incidences of poor behaviour at community games that I do at JDL/YPL in the 6 seasons i've been watching JDL/PYL. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the incidences in my experience are few & far between at the comparable kids level. My PYL son has elected to be a club referee at community son's club for three seasons now because, in his words, "why would I go and have to deal with the crap that goes on each week at JDL or PYL, when I can go to the same ground every week i'm available, get great support from the club when I need it and not get called a cheat every time i blow the whistle"
All in all, reading back on what i'm writing, i'm not sure if i'm agreeing with you or not, but I don't think the issue is as cut & dried as either you or Skimmer make out. I probably tend to agree with Dreamtime Yowie on this one, I feel the issue lies with NNSWF in prioritising filling referee shirts with whoever they can in JDL or PYL over actually developing referees for the whole football pyramid, which as the state body I believe they should be doing.
Fair post,and Im glad your lads are out there amongst it.The lack of connection between community and JDL/NPL is one of my main arguments as well.I agree that it could be beneficial but as you said,it cant happen the way its set up (which as you said is on NNSW not the refs).I think we are in agreement on most issues to be fair,I support the refs and have issues with the way the refs program is run.But I also have a bigger problem with coaches and parents who simply have no idea how any of it works and go straight to 'cheat' whenever they dont understand something.Everyone can do better but it seems that some people think that only the refs are the ones who need to change.
As a parent, I most miss the community days of u6-8s...just seemed like much more fun, maybe it was the nostalgia of it! But I also don't remember anyone accusing refs of cheating then either (even when they were young kids from the same club)
Maybe beyond those ages it's a little more "vicious"
As my boy got older, I enjoyed refereeing games at SAP/JDL level...and I didn't mind a bit of banter from the crowd, home or away fans and often just saw it in good humour. I don't recall anything too sinister on game days from the crowd, or the kids while I was doing it. (I refed every home game until u12s when the green shirts took my job! :-P ) but I do know that the competitive spirit really does start to take hold at that time and it seemed to degrade once the green shirts did start to take over. (Again, maybe because if the novice status)
I like that idea of Northern Swan to have a developmental structure placed around it involving all the levels and having kids graduate back and forth across them!
Parents are less likely to yell at a man than a teenager because the adult will push back.
True, but I'm also not very big and intimidating either, being not much taller than some of the kids I was reffing 😂. More Rotund with a bigger aura of gravitas though! 😛
A bigger question is why inexperienced ref's have to ref these games?
The reason:
Parents, coaches and administrators have intimidated, repulsed or alienated so many intermediate or experienced ref's that there are nowhere near enough required for all games.
Nearly everyone needs to rein in their egos and opinions and let the game be played with who has been out in charge.
All opinions expressed here are my own.
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin
So you think thats its ok for refs who are clearly out of their depth and rarely pull up dangerous tackles are ok to ref?
Your ego and opinion is also inept.
Ive never heard a ref get called a cheat at jdl or ypl. where are you getting your BS from?
I've often heard cmon ref! or heyyyyy ... This isn't abuse unless you have the spine of a jellyfish.
Ive seen reffing that is more incompetent than the players on the field most weeks and who cant keep players safe whilst parents have bitten their tongue. Id rather a clubman do it.
Yes I've reffed at several levels junior and senior.
The seniors, which isnt in this convo is a different scene.
It’s obviously not okay or ideal for a referee to be out of their depth and allowing dangerous tackles as you suggest.
But, what’s the alternative? No refs? Club officials referee?
I guess, we just get better refs?
There’s only so much training, practice and development you can do. There are probably some things that could be done better. Community refereeing was a great space to get out, learn basics, have some fun and try refereeing. You’d move along the ages and get assessed at regular intervals and then you’d be trusted with some higher end games and eventually into the ‘rep’ games or SYL or whatever we were calling it.
So there’s some things, I think the refereeing bodies could do, eg allow that dual registration with NNSW and interdistrict branches.
The very very very root of the problem is that there are simply not enough people willing to referee.
Discovering why (abuse, dissent, lack of support, feeling out of depth, $$ vs time, playing commitments) there are not many referee and addressing those issues is going to be a long path. Nobody wakes up wanting to be a referee. They have a love of the game in one way or another, and think that it could be fun or a viable part time job. Due to lack of numbers, lack of junior games that require a referee (eg no more rooball, smaller field and side games for juniors) means that they are needed to go straight into the ages and divisions that may have historically taken 2-3+ years to reach, are now given to first years.
The hope, is that with changed behaviour, we can at least minimise the player abuse of referees, educate the crowds/parents to be respectful and limit abuse and hopefully allow these young referees to have an evironment conducive to development.
I was at friends last night, and they had the NRL on. There were controversial calls, penalties, sin bins. At no time was there disrespect or dissent or abuse towards the referee making the calls by the players. Only the captain would speak to the referee and it was always respectful and constructive. Contrast that to football whether it be EPL or NPL and see the players surround the referee, remonstrating, gesturing, pure dissent. Football has a problem with referee respect.
There’s a huge pool of players to select teams from. No such pool exists for referees, everybody referees a game.
Again, nobody wants an inexperienced referee, reffing a game. Not the players, not the parents, not the referee association, not the referee themself. It is what it is. People wouldn’t yell out abuse at maccas, so why is it acceptable at children’s sport?
Do you think this whole 'zero tolerance' campaign was introduced because the marketing people were bored?
Translation:"In an environment where everyone has their tin foil hats on and complains about bias refereeing I would rather my kids games be officiated by someone who has less knowledge of the rules and less air of impartiality because they are physically bigger and Im more scared to abuse them".How about this for a counterpoint:dont abuse people in their workplace.Feel free to pull your kid or your team from any games where you dont get a big boy referee and see what happens.Unqualified club referees,dumbest shit I've heard on here.
My opinion on referee situation in region. It needs a complete overhaul from the top down.
It is embarrassing that the 3 local referee associations refuse to work with premier referee department and share resources to ensure all games have referees appointed. How many times do we hear all age games having 3 referees but senior zone games or YPL have none. Hard calls need to be made to create 1 referee department in region.
I am sure some referees give up due to abuse. However I know first hand that some referees leave to take up employment where money is more frequent over the course of the year. So many times my kids would have games washed out but then not be appointed for the rescheduled games and therefore missed out on some coin.
Talking about money. I also think NNSW taking money from kids pay to cover admin is a bit rich when you consider the amount of money clubs and players are paying for rego which includes referee costs. Was also shocked at cost to register to referee for 1st year refs, surely NNSW could cover cost and also waive costs in future years to reregister.
I was sworn at by U11s JDL players. When I asked the coach to have a chat to his boys at half time about respecting the refs decision and moving on with the game (they were a dominant team who played some good football), I was told that they could challenge me because I wasn't a teenage ref and I should get on with it.
Clubs/coaches/parents set the culture, kids just follow
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