Their contracts would be the same.Originally Posted by plague
I've been involved with companies that have had employment contracts subject to grant money - similar principle.
Their contracts would be the same.
I've been involved with companies that have had employment contracts subject to grant money - similar principle.
oh no doubt.
would be interesting with CEO's/coaches etc too. Clubs decide to hang onto to someone earning wages they maybe can't afford vs saving the cash and going with a cheaper option but lessening the chances of going back up.
Need to aim high with attendances and look at potential growth.
Hard to believe but every current side has had a home crowd of at least 20,000 at least once. Except CCM who have a couple of 19k crowds and Perth who we know can do it if they get it right (best 16k plus).
I think you apply the FFA Cup standard across the board. Expecting everyone to play at Suncorp or other large stadiums with no atmosphere is counterproductive imo.
As long as there is sufficient seating in a grandstand and lighting to FFA Cup levels, then this should be enough imo.
In terms of crowd numbers, these clubs were getting that much or more in the NSL and its silly to think they would get NPL sized crowds playing in a national competition with teams like MV or WSW visiting. The bigger the stage the bigger the crowds. They don't need huge crowds to be solvent - if they did they would have folded decades ago like the Breakers.
Agreed, but the licence fee is to enter a second division with conditional promotion/relegation - ala the model suggested by the NQF chair. In this case it must be reduced, as it is a lesser "right" or "privilege" to join the 2nd division.
No, you mis-read me. Have a minimum standard for the 2nd division, and conditional promotion based upon a relaxed standard at HAL level.
Its not pie in the sky. Again, I think you've misunderstood me. There are 2 separate issues - $$$ required in the 2nd division and $$$ required to be competitive in the HAL. The TV deals dictate this. ATM the HAL clubs get millions from the TV deal. A promoted team would get a slice of the pie from the HAL deal which would cover the salary cap payments - enough to make them competitive like us or the CCM in terms of a squad. The fact that most own their own stadiums put them in front of us as they have more revenue streams.
In the 2nd division, I'm not suggesting that they'll get a big TV deal. Just enough to cover travel would be sufficient imo. Teams then operate on existing budgets, with the additional income they will be able to attract from sponsors in a televised, national setting. IMO this would be enough for the above-mentioned clubs to find a budget of close to or for some exceeding $1M. The added excitement of potential promotion would undoubtedly increase crowds for these clubs.
No. I don't. Clubs join 2nd division, pay reduced licence fee. Only join 2nd division based upon facilities criteria ensuring minimum standard. Relegation to be phased in after few years, including years of expansion up to about 14-16 teams in HAL.
[QUOTE=plague;165430]We've never had P/R, not even in the NSL. A semi pro/minimum pro 2nd division is being realist. Its not pie in the sky, or romantic - I am a realist and a pessimist if anything. The time has come that we bite the bullet and say that the HAL in its current form has served its purpose of mainstreaming the game, but we need to draw upon our grassroots potential to take the game further. A closed comp of 10 clubs, with 80% of the clubs being under financial stress or making huge losses is not sustainable. A bigger TV deal will come from more teams, and drawing upon the existing grassroots will do that, whilst providing a pathway for more players and more fans.
That's up to the clubs and their owners/committees.
OK firstly cheers for your responses. It def cleared things up as your answers in regards to the Fury dudes plan makes way more sense to me rather than a straight up promotion relegation.
I def disagree though in terms of stadiums. I can't see any way in Griffs green earth that the FFA let anyway play at a "suburban" looking ground.
My dream is for company owned, Bluetongue sized shared stadiums (with 4 sides.....and less gypos) especially in the big cities that multiple teams can share. Then piggyback onto the big stadium for your derby/finals etc etc.
Its def been a focus of MLS for teams to own their own homes and they are built to a league standard. It also means long term thinking and money. But as I've noted elsewhere, team owners aint gonna invest massive amounts of money in stadiums with limited guarantee of being in the comp.
speaking of stadiums. Gypoland cost $28m (in 2000 $) to build and seats 20,000.
would love to see FFA/Melbourne clubs sit down see if they could pull a similar venture off.
The US is much bigger market with much more money.
I think its unrealistic to expect every club in our top 2 divisions to have a stadium like Bluetongue. I would have a slightly tweaked Knights Stadium as the minimum standard for HAL and a Broadmeadow standard for the 2nd division.
The money, nor population, simply isn't here in Australia to demand or require such stadia. 8,000 people at Hunter Stadium is a shit atmosphere, but 8,000 at Hindmarsh or Knights stadium and the place is rocking. Smaller grounds (and more profitable!!) make for better atmosphere and better TV. Sure you can move bigger games to bigger stadiums. But a capacity of 30,000 or 20,000 is pointless for a second division club, and most HAL clubs at the moment.
What about AAMI Park?
I do no know why you are arguing over stadiums. All the old NSL sides have got decent enough stadiums for the 2nd tier level. Most of them if not all of them can play out of the A League stadiums if they were promoted. Eg Sydney Utd have a decent ground, if they were promoted they could play out of Parramatta. The Melbourne sides would have the same, eg Knights stadium is ok for 2nd tier, they could play out of AAMI park if promoted. Same goes for the Brisbane sides etc. In fact I can't think of any side in the 2nd tier that would have a problem with stadiums to play at.
I understand the US population etc, my comment was based on the governing body saying, "you want in our comp, here is the criteria". whatever the specifics are is malleable, but there is a set structure. Also the american clubs have a much bigger representation running the game, so yes they are acting for the most part in self interest, but every bit of success means success for everyone, and thats not a bad model. the biggest gripe against the FFA from the likes of Tinks, Sage, Palmer was the lack of representation they had in governing the game they bankrolled. and as much as a few of those blokes were utter shitcunce, i always thoughts that point was legit.
I used Bluetongue as it was a much more economical stadium to build. if i remember correctly AAMI was a very expensive place. And yes id be happy to see every Melbourne team at all levels play out of AAMI, but my point again was it would be better to have a dedicated, federation/team owned venue.
heck, the AFL just shelled out $200m to own Etihad just so their clubs had more stability and lower costs using the joint. and yes soccer doesnt have that sort of money, but its more the mindset that i love. the AFL could have easily said "too bad, do your own rent deal and if you die then who cares", but they use their money much more wisely. plus they use their club boardmembers clout to lobby governments for money. the AFL is smart man, theres a lot of lessons that can be learned from them.
yeah id love to see Northern NSW build a No#2 oval sized stadium all seater 12k capacity play all inner city NPL games there and the Jets play all non finals games there. NPL sides get the revenue on matchday and pay a % for maintenance rather than every club in the city trying to keep a ground up to standard for 10/12 games a year.
well, id love to see someone think of an idea like that. Rugby seemed to pull it off pretty quickly, surely the resources/minds of FFA/NNSW?council/state govt could think of something?
i wouldn't say we are 'arguing' about stadiums. people def have different ideas on what would be acceptable for a national comp,and i can see their point. and yes i absolutely think all teams in capital cities should play out of generic stadiums like AAMI. But they need to realise they start paying BIG rents in that case and all im saying is that i wish long term the FFA and clubs pooled their resources and built their own idea of 'AAMI park' to make the individual clubs more cost effective.
1st annd last direct.... 2nd and 2nd last playoff..
Amigos Aarau
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Xamax Stadium 10 000 seat... shopping center incoorporated. Hey lowy Westfields... lol
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FC Thun - 10 000. Just outside of town. walking distance from trainstation.. Shopping center next door.. Massive Parking underground
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Tissot Arena...
Multi use.. Ice hockey rinks and shopping. Ice Hockey Stadium.... Football has space 5200 with options can be extended to 10000
Above posts.. stadium can be small but yet professional.. (FFA would approve)
Plus if can build a new stadium in switzerland with the little amount of space we have.. im sure there are options in Aus....
Promotion and Relegation has to come for the simple reason of competition... (the league cannot develop if that doesnt come in..) This isnt Rugby league or AFL that the game is really only played here. thus the best talent stays here and thus the competition can improve...
Also, why not a-league youth teams in this 2nd div? Obvs no promotion but after the fury 6 year plan if we have 14-16 a-league teams if half of them want to have a youth team then let them play your top npl teams. Maybe mandate every youth team has to be in the lower divisions within 10 years and by then with the 'smaller' npl clubs you've got a ready made 3rd division.
Spitballing.
Miron Bleiberg leading the charge for a 2nd Brisbane team.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/...3c2ce7e884c9c1
Not sure if Miron and his band of bogans can handle another team. They're all the "fkn smashim" crowd
Completely disagree.
There is quite a lot of Football fans in Brisbane that felt disconnected from Hollandia since the beginning of the A-League and that has only grown even more since the Barkies.
IMO Miron and his cohort should jump in bed with Strikers as I see them as the only viable option as a second Brisbane side.
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