The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

[Frodo]

Anyone's thoughts on Trump Jr tweeting the name of the whistleblower?

[Jetmaster]

Science doesn't have a definitive answer on when life begins. So, you're not wrong but you aren't right either.

But being brought into a world of pain and suffering could be worse than never being born at all. Gotta have some perspective there buddy.

Don't want to bring things down, but my wife and I held and then buried our daughter who was stillborn at 22 weeks. Legally we were told you had to have a funeral beyond 20 weeks term and they are considered to have been a "person". We also have a plot to visit. Tricky ground.

[MFKS]

ROFL. I know you like some good old fashioned mental gymnastics, but this is some gold medal shit right here.

Don't really need to do anything here with you

Your argument is weak and based on avoiding responsibility so I don't need to do much mental gymnastics with you

That fine

You can feel that wayall you want

Just bizarre that you think killing kids is an ok thing

[plague]

Fact is life is created the moment the egg and sperm meet as a new cell is created


Life begins when you accept our Lord and saviour Griff into your life and giveth yourself unto Him.
Everything else is just 'existing'.

[Frodo]

Just bizarre that you think killing kids is an ok thing

Mental gymnastics again. Too bad your real body isn't as flexible as your morals.

I'm done arguing with you on the subject. This has just turned into name calling.

[pv4]

Fact is life is created the moment the egg and sperm meet as a new cell is created

That is science for you

If you want science to give facts on life, why wait until an egg and sperm meet to define life? A sperm is a single-cell organism and as alive as any other cells in a male (or female) body. By your interpretation is every sperm that does not fertilise an egg a wasted life?

Or are you saying there must be two things to create life? If that is the case I'm honestly going to need helping interpreting your good book, starting with chapter one.

[pv4]

Life begins when you accept our Lord and saviour Griff into your life and giveth yourself unto Him.
Everything else is just 'existing'.

Amen

[plague]

Anyone's thoughts on Trump Jr tweeting the name of the whistleblower?

along with everything else in this bitch ass cancel culture era, it was a shitty thing to do, but not illegal so what can be done?
The article he retweeted (containing the whistleblowers name) had been up online for more than a week and had (apparently) already been reported on by the press. If anyone 'wanted' to know the WB's name, it was out there well before that shithead Junior stuck his beak in amongst it.

it does raise a pretty legit question though. For something as serious as potentially removing a President from office, should all names/identities be out there? Should the key witnesses be able to be cross examined as part of the hearings? For some that is a simple due process and the cornerstone of the legal system.

But does putting innocent whistleblowers out in the open prevent people from coming forward in the event of similar indiscretions in the future?

Also, learned today that Monica Lewinsky actually lied under oath about her affair with Clinton, and it was only after she got caught out by one of her friends wearing a wire (****ing snitch) that she did an immunity deal with the investigator and gave a sworn statement. i dont think she was cross examined.

[Skirt Boy]

Life begins when you accept our Lord and saviour Griff into your life and giveth yourself unto Him.
Everything else is just 'existing'.

Devoting oneself to a deity has caused my bloodshed and human misery than any other ideology known to man.

Religion and or a belief in a diety provides justification to bring harm to your fellow man without taking responsibility for your actions.

[plague]

Devoting oneself to a deity has caused my bloodshed and human misery than any other ideology known to man.

Religion and or a belief in a diety provides justification to bring harm to your fellow man without taking responsibility for your actions.

pfffft, as if goals just go in the ****ing net without divine intervention.

so many heathens on this platform.

REPENT, in the name of the Lord, and thy name is GRIFF.


Hail Griff.






















GRIFF!!!!

[Skirt Boy]

pfffft, as if goals just go in the ****ing net without divine intervention.

so many heathens on this platform.

REPENT, in the name of the Lord, and thy name is GRIFF.


Hail Griff.

GRIFF!!!!


I can honestly state that none of the goals I've scored were as a result of an almighty power other than my right boot and occasional hand.

Also what if I don't repent? am I going to lose my head, put on the rack, burned at the stake, buried alive with honey poured on my face, castrated........................

[The Dunster]

along with everything else in this bitch ass cancel culture era, it was a shitty thing to do, but not illegal so what can be done?
The article he retweeted (containing the whistleblowers name) had been up online for more than a week and had (apparently) already been reported on by the press. If anyone 'wanted' to know the WB's name, it was out there well before that shithead Junior stuck his beak in amongst it.

it does raise a pretty legit question though. For something as serious as potentially removing a President from office, should all names/identities be out there? Should the key witnesses be able to be cross examined as part of the hearings? For some that is a simple due process and the cornerstone of the legal system.

But does putting innocent whistleblowers out in the open prevent people from coming forward in the event of similar indiscretions in the future?

Also, learned today that Monica Lewinsky actually lied under oath about her affair with Clinton, and it was only after she got caught out by one of her friends wearing a wire (****ing snitch) that she did an immunity deal with the investigator and gave a sworn statement. i dont think she was cross examined.

If the person Trump Jr comes named into harms way it wouldn't be difficult to link it to the tweet providing his identity.
From there, I'd say Trump Jr would be in a whole world of shit.

LInda Tripp illegally taped a conversation with a fellow staffer [Lewinsky]. They were not friends.
Tripp gained immunity for handing the tapes to authorities.
Did you know she was part of the Bush Administration staff and Clinton let her and others keep their jobs when he became president.

[Frodo]

Just to be clear also, Trumpf Jr isn't going to get pinned with anything as he's like the 100th person to tweet the identity. It was known for weeks who the guy was.

But it screams of insecurity from the Trumpf team that they want to tarnish the guys name in the public, even though the whistleblower is now not a problem. Republicans have already agreed with his statements and admitted to all the things that he said. Their argument is now that it's not illegal to do what they did rather than did they actually do it.

Trumpf Jr just thinks he's out here playing 4D chess when it reality he's playing Uno with Jenga pieces and Lego.

[plague]

Further to the release of the Epstein story video.
It looks like ABC found out who leaked the video, it was an ex-employee who is now working for a rival (CBS). Well now she has been fired by CBS on what looks like snitching from ABC.
This certainly isnt a good look for anyone involved here and if its as simple as that, you can see a lawsuit coming.

Its also yet more fodder for the Trump camp to spew the 'cant trust the media' angle. They surely cant be this silly to behave like that when they know they on notice.


Which brings me to another point regarding the 'cant trust the media' angle. Now I know its an American thing, but i find it interesting that people are up in arms about Trump calling the media the enemy of the people, yet we have a very prominent former PM over here, and now a very prominent former opposition leader (who lost a federal election) who are saying exactly the same thing. They are openly saying the media was to blame for their downfall and that the media lies and plays favourites.

Yet because its the Murdoch press its seen as a legitimate gripe.

Now, before you start up. I believe the Murdoch press to be one sided, i also believe ABC (aust) and the Guardian to lean one way. But it seems only one side is 'fair and balanced' in the eyes of many.

its like Australia is ok with accepting that 'some' of the media is the enemy of the people.

weird that.

[plague]

Just to be clear also, Trumpf Jr isn't going to get pinned with anything as he's like the 100th person to tweet the identity. It was known for weeks who the guy was.

oh cmon, even you've gotta admit Don Jnr skewering Joy Behar on her own TV show yesterday was great.
Its more concerning the further this goes that this bloke is gonna shoe horn his way into the 2024 race.

it will be hilarious, as he doesnt have any of the clout of his old man, but he sure thinks he does.

[The Dunster]

oh cmon, even you've gotta admit Don Jnr skewering Joy Behar on her own TV show yesterday was great.
Its more concerning the further this goes that this bloke is gonna shoe horn his way into the 2024 race.

it will be hilarious, as he doesnt have any of the clout of his old man, but he sure thinks he does.

Many said the same thing about Donald Trump with respect to his father.
I wouldn't underestimate Jnr. He's a chip off the old block only better educated.

Out of interest Plague have you recently retired ? You seem to have almost as much free time as I do.

[Macca]

Now, before you start up. I believe the Murdoch press to be one sided, i also believe ABC (aust) and the Guardian to lean one way. But it seems only one side is 'fair and balanced' in the eyes of many.

its like Australia is ok with accepting that 'some' of the media is the enemy of the people.

weird that.

Personally, I think they do each lean to their respective sides. I just think one side leans way further and has no interest in bothering to attempt to remain somewhat neutral.

The more left leaning agencies (depending on the writers etc) probably go too far their way too, although still much less than others.
I think some of it comes down to the echo chamber / social media type environment we exist in where people are generally super happy to hear whatever they believe over and over. And thus are happy to keep consuming the same strand of content. Almost like choosing what show to watch on Netflix. And I'm not immune to that either. But I try to take a step back every now and then and look at stuff objectively.

[The Dunster]

Personally, I think they do each lean to their respective sides. I just think one side leans way further and has no interest in bothering to attempt to remain somewhat neutral.

The more left leaning agencies (depending on the writers etc) probably go too far their way too, although still much less than others.
I think some of it comes down to the echo chamber / social media type environment we exist in where people are generally super happy to hear whatever they believe over and over. And thus are happy to keep consuming the same strand of content. Almost like choosing what show to watch on Netflix. And I'm not immune to that either. But I try to take a step back every now and then and look at stuff objectively.

There's only two sides. Rich and Poor. Can't recall any poor people reading the news or owning a Tv station or Newspaper.

[plague]

I just think one side leans way further and has no interest in bothering to attempt to remain somewhat neutral.


and this is my point. You, as a private citizen, have a distrust of a certain section of the media. id be shocked if the overwhelming majority of the population didnt have a similar issue with their own certain section of the media.

Its just when an elected official who seems to have plenty of evidence says the same thing its seen as a hangable offence.

its also another example of Trump positioning himself as relatable to the 'common man'. "SEE I HAVE PARANOIA TOO!!!!!"

[plague]

Out of interest Plague have you recently retired ? You seem to have almost as much free time as I do.

nah man, im only required when the well oiled machine breaks down. everything running on all cylinders at the moment so as all good bosses do, i have my staff doing the work while i sit around and watch tv/play golf etc.

[MFKS]

Out of curiosity refusing to run that story aren't the ABC a guilty of a conspiracy by not running the storyand also protecting child abuse predators??


Surprised they ain't being hung drawn and quartered for this shit as they have allowed many child predators to continue on unchecked

The MSM keep going on they are legit and accuse others of running with conspiracy theories. Well they are not running theories they are running conspiracies

[MFKS]

If you want science to give facts on life, why wait until an egg and sperm meet to define life? A sperm is a single-cell organism and as alive as any other cells in a male (or female) body. By your interpretation is every sperm that does not fertilise an egg a wasted life?

Or are you saying there must be two things to create life? If that is the case I'm honestly going to need helping interpreting your good book, starting with chapter one.

That would also mean under that logic everytime you strangle the chicken you committing mass genocide wouldn't it??

[pv4]

That would also mean under that logic everytime you strangle the chicken you committing mass genocide wouldn't it??

These questions are all aimed at you

[plague]

Out of curiosity refusing to run that story aren't the ABC a guilty of a conspiracy by not running the storyand also protecting child abuse predators??


Surprised they ain't being hung drawn and quartered for this shit as they have allowed many child predators to continue on unchecked

The MSM keep going on they are legit and accuse others of running with conspiracy theories. Well they are not running theories they are running conspiracies

nah, they arent breaking any laws. they can have any number of reasons for not running the story. funnily enough the only 'crime' committed here is actually against the ABC if it can be proven that they were being extorted to withhold the info they had.
the way the reporter was accusing the ABC of not running the story because Buckingham Palace wouldnt let them interview Will and kate is an example but its such a stretch to suggest, then prove they were committing a crime.

as for withholding any info about Epstein, it looks like their story didnt have any accusations that werent already in the public domain, the problem with their story was the people surrounding it like Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton. They are the only people they were 'protecting' and since neither of those 2 have been accused/charged or committed of a crime then ABC is in the clear.


ABC merely looks like a bunch of hypocrites here, not criminals.

[MFKS]

These questions are all aimed at you

But it not new life until it combines with another cell to create new DNA

By your point getting a hair cut would be the same

[pv4]

But it not new life until it combines with another cell to create new DNA

By your point getting a hair cut would be the same

So you don't care about all life, just new life?

I'm genuinely trying to figure out when your argument starts and stops here. It isn't consistent in any way.

[plague]

heres one thats been floating around twitter recently.
Gervais explains his why, and Colbert (a religious person) has some valid points about what God is to him.

i thought the point about burning all the books was pretty well said.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZOwNK6n9U

[plague]

So you don't care about all life, just new life?

I'm genuinely trying to figure out when your argument starts and stops here. It isn't consistent in any way.

to be fair, we (pro choice people) havent explained when we think life starts either.
we kind of just picked a number and have since changed it round a fair bit.

our justifications (other than the main one of being none of anyones business except the women's) have always been open to criticism.

[pv4]

to be fair, we (pro choice people) havent explained when we think life starts either.
we kind of just picked a number and have since changed it round a fair bit.

our justifications (other than the main one of being none of anyones business except the women's) have always been open to criticism.

At least one person in Frodo clearly detailed his/her definition of it.

I'd also argue your point about only the womens business, without trying to force red pills down anyone's mindtanks.

[plague]

At least one person in Frodo clearly detailed his/her definition of it.


sorry, meant to say 'pro choice lawmakers' not being able to define when it starts.

[Frodo]

heres one thats been floating around twitter recently.
Gervais explains his why, and Colbert (a religious person) has some valid points about what God is to him.

i thought the point about burning all the books was pretty well said.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZOwNK6n9U

I don't like Ricky Gervais, and I think he's a perfect poster boy for Atheists since he thinks he's intelligent but he just used big words to hide the fact that he has nothing big worth to say. Atheism is exactly as bad as modern religion. People with no facts yelling at other people because they disagree on a thing that they don't have any proof of either way. And both of them argue knowing full well they can't convince the other to change their minds. Such a waste of time.

Also, he has Atheism wrong completely there and he knows it. Atheism is the belief that there is no god, not a soft arse I don't really know but I don't think there is. That's a new take that lazy arse people are trying to mould it into since their original argument is impossible to prove


I'm agnostic, but I would rather talk to a person of faith than an atheist when those sorts of topics come up. At least a religious person can handle criticisms towards their faith (well most can). Atheists can't handle being disagreed with and will waste plenty of energy/time "proving" you wrong.

[plague]

I don't like Ricky Gervais

yeah i kind of gathered that.

[Frodo]

yeah i kind of gathered that.

I admit my biases.

[Skirt Boy]

At least a religious person can handle criticisms towards their faith (well most can).

Persecution of the Lollards, Hussite Wars, German Peasants War, Protestant Reformation, 30 Years war, Albigensian Crusades, Northern Crusades and I haven't even started on the Middle East and there is a lot more. But all because people of a different faith that you get the idea.

[Frodo]

Persecution of the Lollards, Hussite Wars, German Peasants War, Protestant Reformation, 30 Years war, Albigensian Crusades, Northern Crusades and I haven't even started on the Middle East and there is a lot more. But all because people of a different faith that you get the idea.

Sorry, I did mention "modern" religious people earlier in the post. I very much don't like religions and we could sit here for hours listing the heinous things they've done.

But I don't put the blame of past acts on every person of faith. That's not fair.

[plague]

except the Westboro Baptist Church.

**** all those assholes straight to hell, or Gosford, whichever they hit first.

[pv4]

Also, he has Atheism wrong completely there and he knows it. Atheism is the belief that there is no god, not a soft arse I don't really know but I don't think there is. That's a new take that lazy arse people are trying to mould it into since their original argument is impossible to prove

I interpreted what he said in that video differently and don't believe he got atheism wrong at all.

When he wasn't being cut off mid sentence and actually given the opportunity to explain himself he said he is an agnostic atheist. He then says the agnostic part is because he cannot say definitively that there is a god, and then says by definition all humans are agnostic then. Then he says, after being cutoff and able to come back to it, that he is atheist as the definition of atheism is the lack of belief in god (google the definition if needed), and his example is when a person with faith says they can't prove god exists he says he does not believe in it.

I found him very transparent with all of that and don't think he got it wrong in any way.

I have also never personally heard the 1000 year burn the books example between fiction and science, but adored it.

For the record i define myself as an agnostic but refer to the TV show Community where they call that out as a lazy mans atheist. And I'm cool being that.

[pv4]

I'm agnostic, but I would rather talk to a person of faith than an atheist when those sorts of topics come up. At least a religious person can handle criticisms towards their faith (well most can). Atheists can't handle being disagreed with and will waste plenty of energy/time "proving" you wrong.

i think it is too broad a statement to say you'd rather speak to one side over the other assuming they can or can't handle things better or worse. There are smart and dumb people on both sides, and people that can and can't hold an argument either way.

As a general vibe I find it much harder to cut thru the bullshit when speaking to a religious person. I get told their good book is written in black and white and see genuine arguments about the exact wording of a sentence in there (even though it has been translated several times and there are various current versions going, and let's not get into when the Romans dictated what did and didnt get put in there also..) but then when they want to disagree with something that doesn't fit their narrative they have these caveats or unwritten contexts that need to be taken into account. At least for the most part an atheist will say their exact thoughts, almost always I do not believe in it because it has zero proof, and you can go about your business from there.

[Frodo]

except the Westboro Baptist Church.

**** all those assholes straight to hell, or Gosford, whichever they hit first.

Oh yeah, screw those guys.

[MFKS]

So you don't care about all life, just new life?

I'm genuinely trying to figure out when your argument starts and stops here. It isn't consistent in any way.

Thought i made it pretty clear that life begins at conception

Once that has occurred we shouldn't be killing the child

Which part of that is hard for you to understand??

[Frodo]

I interpreted what he said in that video differently and don't believe he got atheism wrong at all.

When he wasn't being cut off mid sentence and actually given the opportunity to explain himself he said he is an agnostic atheist. He then says the agnostic part is because he cannot say definitively that there is a god, and then says by definition all humans are agnostic then. Then he says, after being cutoff and able to come back to it, that he is atheist as the definition of atheism is the lack of belief in god (google the definition if needed), and his example is when a person with faith says they can't prove god exists he says he does not believe in it.

I found him very transparent with all of that and don't think he got it wrong in any way.

I have also never personally heard the 1000 year burn the books example between fiction and science, but adored it.

For the record i define myself as an agnostic but refer to the TV show Community where they call that out as a lazy mans atheist. And I'm cool being that.

Atheism is from the greek language and translated to "without God". It's the antithesis of Theism which is the belief in a deity.

New Age atheists are trying to soften the original meaning because it is impossible to prove their original argument. They want to have the balls to say there is no god, but they don't anyway to back it up. So instead of admitting they don't know and becoming an agnostic they still make the same argument but then put the onus on the other side to prove that the god exists. Smart move, but it also destroys the entire argument they set out to make.

[pv4]

Thought i made it pretty clear that life begins at conception

You stated "that is science" in defining life so my scientific question to you was is sperm not alive.

[The Dunster]

Atheism is from the greek language and translated to "without God". It's the antithesis of Theism which is the belief in a deity.

New Age atheists are trying to soften the original meaning because it is impossible to prove their original argument. They want to have the balls to say there is no god, but they don't anyway to back it up. So instead of admitting they don't know and becoming an agnostic they still make the same argument but then put the onus on the other side to prove that the god exists. Smart move, but it also destroys the entire argument they set out to make.

The best stance is to simply say.

1. I hope there's not a god because if there is he or she or it or whatever is doing a pretty shithouse job. Floods, droughts, famine, childhood cancer, pedo's, triathletes... the list is endless.

Science wise you need only refer to the bible being deterministic and the overwhelming amount of data that essentially proves determinism to be a myth.

The main example being that Planck's Constant is a non-zero number. It pretty much destroys the notion of determinism or of a clockwork universe as most if not all religions adhere to.

It's up to the religious types to prove Planck's constant is a myth - but 114 + years on and not only is it the centre of the most technological advances in human history - it's also been attacked more than any other piece of science and has remained completely intact and beyond criticism.

[MFKS]

It is alive if that is tge term you wish to use otherwise it wouldn't be able to impregnate wouldn't it ??

Of course it only has a short window to do the job to before it succumbs


Doesn't make it a life though does it

[MFKS]

The best stance is to simply say.

1. I hope there's not a god because if there is he or she or it or whatever is doing a pretty shithouse job. Floods, droughts, famine, childhood cancer, pedo's, triathletes... the list is endless.

Science wise you need only refer to the bible being deterministic and the overwhelming amount of data that essentially proves determinism to be a myth.

The main example being that Planck's Constant is a non-zero number. It pretty much destroys the notion of determinism or of a clockwork universe as most if not all religions adhere to.

It's up to the religious types to prove Planck's constant is a myth - but 114 years on and not only is it the centre of the most technological advances in human history - it's also been attacked more than any other piece of science and has remained completely intact and beyond criticism.

God done a pretty good job

It the sinners out there choosing to **** things up

He gave everyone freewill

Some are just failing the test he set you all

[The Dunster]

God done a pretty good job

It the sinners out there choosing to **** things up

He gave everyone freewill

Some are just failing the test he set you all

A three year old kid with Cancer ? Please explain ?
For free will to exist you have to reject determinism - that wipes out the bible pretty much instantly.

[plague]

1. I hope there's not a god because if there is he or she or it or whatever is doing a pretty shithouse job. Floods, droughts, famine, childhood cancer, pedo's, triathletes... the list is endless.

God gave us Griff.
No other way to explain His existence.
Must be legit.

[MFKS]

A three year old kid with Cancer ? Please explain ?
For free will to exist you have to reject determinism - that wipes out the bible pretty much instantly.

God tests everyone in different ways

That child is going to be tested by them being able to retain belief in God or not
Just as it is a test on the parents to retain faith in God or not

That is their test not yours or mine

[Skirt Boy]

Sorry, I did mention "modern" religious people earlier in the post. I very much don't like religions and we could sit here for hours listing the heinous things they've done.

But I don't put the blame of past acts on every person of faith. That's not fair.

But it still happens though and the institutions that allowed it to happen. Encouraged the violence. They still exist.

Take child sexual abuse within the Church. You can say that it wasn't all priests. But the structure and institution of the church allowed it to happen.

[The Dunster]

God tests everyone in different ways

That child is going to be tested by them being able to retain belief in God or not
Just as it is a test on the parents to retain faith in God or not

That is their test not yours or mine

That's about the best endorsement for atheism I have ever read.

[The Dunster]

But it still happens though and the institutions that allowed it to happen. Encouraged the violence. They still exist.

Take child sexual abuse within the Church. You can say that it wasn't all priests. But the structure and institution of the church allowed it to happen.

According to the Member it was god testing the children. Priests were simply the tools used by god to perform the testing.

[pv4]

It is alive


Doesn't make it a life though

You see how I'm struggling to understand consistency in your argument right

[Frodo]

The main example being that Planck's Constant is a non-zero number. It pretty much destroys the notion of determinism or of a clockwork universe as most if not all religions adhere to.

It's up to the religious types to prove Planck's constant is a myth - but 114 + years on and not only is it the centre of the most technological advances in human history - it's also been attacked more than any other piece of science and has remained completely intact and beyond criticism.

So this is actually a good argument but it still doesn't prove that there is no higher power that created life. There could be a god, but maybe they just started it all off and then whatever happens after that is out of their control. There is no fate, heck they might exist without linear time and they see our entire existence at once and only see the results.

Or this could all be a simulation and the "deity" might be the programmer?

Long story short, I don't think we'll ever know so I don't let it affect my life. I don't blame something bigger than me when things go wrong, and I don't use the afterlife as an excuse to waste my time here. I also don't go round telling people with faith that they have it wrong because;

A) I can't prove them wrong.
B) I've got better shit to do than worry about what someone else thinks.

Note: none of that last part is aimed at you directly Dunster, just a broad statement. I love that you came armed with facts to a topic that doesn't normally have any.

[MFKS]

You see how I'm struggling to understand consistency in your argument right

No I don't see what you are struggling with

[MFKS]

That's about the best endorsement for atheism I have ever read.

Only if you believe in equality of outcome

No one ever said life was fair and balanced for all people

[Bremsstrahlung]

Does the all forgiving God, forgive those that didn’t believe?


Also, while we here.
What’s the kicker? Is it a promise of “heaven” afterwards? Fear of hell and eternal judgement? Is it a guideline for those that can’t figure out how to be a good person otherwise?

[MFKS]

Does the all forgiving God, forgive those that didn’t believe?


Also, while we here.
What’s the kicker? Is it a promise of “heaven” afterwards? Fear of hell and eternal judgement? Is it a guideline for those that can’t figure out how to be a good person otherwise?

Well if they don't believe how are they going to be prepared to repent their sins??

Yo ain't living a life of debauchery wickedness and sin like our aethists brethren do

That the kicker

[MFKS]

Nice to see the Democrats doing a trial run of voter fraud for 2020 with the recent elections in Kentucky

They got up by 5000 votes yet they won a court case to have 175000 people admitted to the electoral roll

Problem is some of these people are immigrants and not allowed to vote


No wonder they are against Voter ID

[Bremsstrahlung]

Well if they don't believe how are they going to be prepared to repent their sins??

Yo ain't living a life of debauchery wickedness and sin like our aethists brethren do

That the kicker

But like, why not just live a good life and be nice to people and do good things.

I struggle to understand how somebody who does good, but is uncertain about a sky god, is sent to the nether regions of hell.
But a murderer, rapist, etc, they get a cross tattoo and say soz and they get to live it up in the after heavens.

[MFKS]

But like, why not just live a good life and be nice to people and do good things.

I struggle to understand how somebody who does good, but is uncertain about a sky god, is sent to the nether regions of hell.
But a murderer, rapist, etc, they get a cross tattoo and say soz and they get to live it up in the after heavens.

So you dont understand that someone who doesn't embrace God because they think they know best won't be welcomed in by God for being arrogant enough to refuse him ??

Is that your complaint in a nutshell I take it??

Because the Murder and Rapist is irrelevant in your point you are trying to make

[Skirt Boy]

When you die there is 4 possible things that will happen.


1. You get buried in an expensive wooden box because the government forces you to buy an expensive wooden box for some reason...........Eventually you decompose till a skeleton is all that is left. In one maybe two hundred years you are dug up and destroyed for a new housing development.

2. You get burnt in an incinerator and tossed wherever you're relatives feel is appropriate or put in a dark cupboard locked away..........Eventually you will get turfed into the garbage and sent to landfill.

3. You're body is sent to a university to be dissected, chopped up and played with by 18 year old university students studying medicine who probably make poor jokes about how disfigured your penis is due to herpes. Once all possible uses of your body for education/research is carried out. You're incinerated into nothing.

4. You end up as a art piece made by Gunther von Hagens.

[Bremsstrahlung]

So you dont understand that someone who doesn't embrace God because they think they know best won't be welcomed in by God for being arrogant enough to refuse him ??

Is that your complaint in a nutshell I take it??

Because the Murder and Rapist is irrelevant in your point you are trying to make

More or less.
Is belief the only criteria?

You can be a shitty person and treat people terribly, not following any commandments, and you’re welcomed because you believe?
But you can’t be a good person doing kind things, and unsure of a God, your banished to hell.


The murder and rape is irrelevant? It’s clear violation of the commandments set down which people are supposed to follow.
I don’t get how an all forgiving God can forgive those guys on death row that have turned to religion as a last resort to salvage something. Opposed to somebody who has followed the commandments and been an agnostic exemplary citizen.

[MFKS]

More or less.
Is belief the only criteria?

You can be a shitty person and treat people terribly, not following any commandments, and you’re welcomed because you believe?
But you can’t be a good person doing kind things, and unsure of a God, your banished to hell.


The murder and rape is irrelevant? It’s clear violation of the commandments set down which people are supposed to follow.
I don’t get how an all forgiving God can forgive those guys on death row that have turned to religion as a last resort to salvage something. Opposed to somebody who has followed the commandments and been an agnostic exemplary citizen.

Seems to be a mixed message you are getting here that in confusing to you

Catholics are much more interested in believing repenting sin gives the get out of gaol card
Other denominations are not so generous

As you are aware all religions have different beliefs and rituals
You currently pontificating on the differences between them with a moralistic question

[The Dunster]

When you die there is 4 possible things that will happen.


1. You get buried in an expensive wooden box because the government forces you to buy an expensive wooden box for some reason...........Eventually you decompose till a skeleton is all that is left. In one maybe two hundred years you are dug up and destroyed for a new housing development.

2. You get burnt in an incinerator and tossed wherever you're relatives feel is appropriate or put in a dark cupboard locked away..........Eventually you will get turfed into the garbage and sent to landfill.


3. You're body is sent to a university to be dissected, chopped up and played with by 18 year old university students studying medicine who probably make poor jokes about how disfigured your penis is due to herpes. Once all possible uses of your body for education/research is carried out. You're incinerated into nothing.

4. You end up as a art piece made by Gunther von Hagens.

5. You get a five year contract as a Newcastle Jets marquee

[plague]

theres def one winner out of all this impeachment nonsense and thats Jim Jordan.
Bloke has been a star for the republicans.
If Trump gets in and does a good job in the 2nd term, it might just set up a Presidential run in 2024 for Jordan.

The other person who will qualify to run in 2024, our girl AOC.
My goodness if those 2 go head to head then it will be fantastic.

[The Dunster]

theres def one winner out of all this impeachment nonsense and thats Jim Jordan.
Bloke has been a star for the republicans.
If Trump gets in and does a good job in the 2nd term, it might just set up a Presidential run in 2024 for Jordan.

The other person who will qualify to run in 2024, our girl AOC.
My goodness if those 2 go head to head then it will be fantastic.

I'd rather Trump over Jordan anyday. He's too deeply rooted in ideological dogma to be of any use to anyone looking to get the US back on track.
Unfortunately, he's also bat shit crazy right wing extreme enough to win in a landslide.

[Jetmaster]

Here's a bit of fun...

https://australiatalks.abc.net.au/

Like how you get slightly scolded if you have a less leftist "ABC" view - "like 68% of men you do not believe you are a feminist - only 18% of women would agree with you", "your views are would be similar to those who are male, older, live in a regional area or vote One Nation".

[Macca]

Here's a bit of fun...

https://australiatalks.abc.net.au/

Like how you get slightly scolded if you have a less leftist "ABC" view - "like 68% of men you do not believe you are a feminist - only 18% of women would agree with you", "your views are would be similar to those who are male, older, live in a regional area or vote One Nation".

I'd say it says more about you that you're feeling defensive about those results than it does about the website giving you statistical feedback on your answers.

[plague]

Here's a bit of fun...

https://australiatalks.abc.net.au/

Like how you get slightly scolded if you have a less leftist "ABC" view - "like 68% of men you do not believe you are a feminist - only 18% of women would agree with you", "your views are would be similar to those who are male, older, live in a regional area or vote One Nation".


Q: what is the biggest problem facing you

A: The central coast mariners

[The Dunster]

You are among the 17% of Australians your age who don't think people need to take more responsibility for their own lives.

Or. I'm one of 17% of Australians who realise that the Australian government is only constrained by real resources not by its ability to pay for things denominated in Australian Dollars.

Households though do have constraints placed upon them by government which government themselves are not burdened with - like taxes, money to extinguish taxes...

[The Dunster]

You are among 1 in 3 Australians who think that people should be allowed to say things in public that discriminate against minority groups

No. I think that regardless of whether you are a minority or not I should be able to voice facts publically. Sometimes those facts can inadvertently discriminate against groups- and sometimes those groups can be minorities.

If the survey asked : Do you think it's ok to make up shit about minorities to run them down - I would have answered "Strongly disagree"

[The Dunster]

Here's a bit of fun...

https://australiatalks.abc.net.au/

Like how you get slightly scolded if you have a less leftist "ABC" view - "like 68% of men you do not believe you are a feminist - only 18% of women would agree with you", "your views are would be similar to those who are male, older, live in a regional area or vote One Nation".

My concern here is with the 32% of soft cocks who believe they are feminists.
Interesting that only 18% of women agree / think that males are not feminist [Or have I read this incorrectly?]

[Skirt Boy]

Q: what is the biggest problem facing you

A: The central coast mariners

A: Australian Tax Office

**** those ****s. Always trying to hammer the small businessman into the ground whilst cosying up to the big end of town.

[Jetmaster]

I'd say it says more about you that you're feeling defensive about those results than it does about the website giving you statistical feedback on your answers.

Now I did say it was a bit of fun didn't I?

Apart from voting One Nation it is all correct...

[plague]

This impeachment stuff is pretty much explaining why twitter is twitter to the whole world.
I woke up this morning to my lefty friends boasting about "ZOMG Fiona Hill just dunked on Trump derp derp derp".
But everything i read about her testimony has nothing to do with any of the charges that have been levelled against him.
Unless someone has quotes that matter then someone help me out.

having said that, im not sure of the subpoena power of the people making the claims, but if they get Giuliani in the chair he'll certainly **** all of the Donalds shit up whether he means to or not.

[The Dunster]

This impeachment stuff is pretty much explaining why twitter is twitter to the whole world.
I woke up this morning to my lefty friends boasting about "ZOMG Fiona Hill just dunked on Trump derp derp derp".
But everything i read about her testimony has nothing to do with any of the charges that have been levelled against him.
Unless someone has quotes that matter then someone help me out.

having said that, im not sure of the subpoena power of the people making the claims, but if they get Giuliani in the chair he'll certainly **** all of the Donalds shit up whether he means to or not.

Giuliani is a very intelligent man. If he ****s anything up it will be intentional not a mistake.
He's also about as connected as can be both legally and politically - he's pretty much played on every team.

He's the polar opposite of Donald Trump in many ways.

[Frodo]

My concern here is with the 32% of soft cocks who believe they are feminists.
Interesting that only 18% of women agree / think that males are not feminist [Or have I read this incorrectly?]

Soft cocks? Careful buddy, your inadequacies are showing.

[plague]

ok this is the best thing ive seen about Trump.
turn the volume up and enjoy.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1197684271042961409

[The Dunster]

ok this is the best thing ive seen about Trump.
turn the volume up and enjoy.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1197684271042961409

Trump doing an impersonation of Nancy Pelosi.

[Negative Police]

No. I think that regardless of whether you are a minority or not I should be able to voice facts publically. Sometimes those facts can inadvertently discriminate against groups- and sometimes those groups can be minorities.

If the survey asked : Do you think it's ok to make up shit about minorities to run them down - I would have answered "Strongly disagree"

Correct. Some chosen minorities will suffer from hysterical outrage than stupidly and incorrectly label you a racist if you disagree with opinions.

I think many are finally onto this now. ABC and SBS are part of this social cancer

[Jetmaster]

Correct. Some chosen minorities will suffer from hysterical outrage than stupidly and incorrectly label you a racist if you disagree with opinions.

I think many are finally onto this now. ABC and SBS are part of this social cancer

The general media do not understand the true definition of "equality" either.

[MFKS]

My concern here is with the 32% of soft cocks who believe they are feminists.
Interesting that only 18% of women agree / think that males are not feminist [Or have I read this incorrectly?]

These are the men who will do anything for some pussy

[MFKS]

Correct. Some chosen minorities will suffer from hysterical outrage than stupidly and incorrectly label you a racist if you disagree with opinions.

I think many are finally onto this now. ABC and SBS are part of this social cancer

You don't say

Both the ABC and SBS have been over run by leftists so much that they don't even seem to care about being balanced

Q&A these days is just propaganda

[plague]

geez louise for something called a 'settlement', it certainly seems like Rugby Australia bent over and got the stick shoved straight up its rear end.

The only thing i can see that maybe went in their favour was Folau didnt get much money at all. But it certainly seemed that money wasnt the biggest issue for Folau.

[MFKS]

geez louise for something called a 'settlement', it certainly seems like Rugby Australia bent over and got the stick shoved straight up its rear end.

The only thing i can see that maybe went in their favour was Folau didnt get much money at all. But it certainly seemed that money wasnt the biggest issue for Folau.

The fact that there was a settlement says that Rugby ****s were in the wrong

[Frodo]

geez louise for something called a 'settlement', it certainly seems like Rugby Australia bent over and got the stick shoved straight up its rear end.

The only thing i can see that maybe went in their favour was Folau didnt get much money at all. But it certainly seemed that money wasnt the biggest issue for Folau.

Didn't they pay him a pittance but had to apologize for any hurt caused to his brand. Cause that's a win for RA as far as I can see. If they don't have to pay his contract out then they've won.

He's only got his GoFundMe wage to live off after this...

[Skirt Boy]

This is some crazy Nazi shit going on in Canberra.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-05/witness-j-revealed-secret-trial/11764676

[pv4]

The fact that there was a settlement says that Rugby ****s were in the wrong

The fact there was a settlement could say one of a thousand things.

Parting with a small amount of cash to save future hassle, distraction, money invested into court cases is a tiny trade-off in the grand scheme. Sometimes you need to pay to have your problems go away, even if you shouldn't need to.

Folau settling if anything says to me he knew his case wouldn't go the distance. At the end of the day, Folau has officially withdrawn his appeal. Using your own logic in regards to the Olyroos case mere weeks ago, the lady in question withdrew her complaint so you yourself even stated that she needs to be held accountable for her actions and that there was nothing wrong done by the players in question as officially there is/was no complaint at all. Folau withdrawing his appeal, by your logic, says that there was nothing to appeal and RA did nothing wrong and Folau should be held accountable for the absolute shitstorm he has created which has genuinely crippled the entire Rugby brand in Australia. Or do we flip this logic and the fact the Olyroos complaint being withdrawn proves the 4 players were in the wrong? This is one of those cases I struggle to find consistency in your arguments again, MFKFC.

At the end of all of this, RA are going to absolutely tighten up their contracts etc so hate-speech can't be tolerated in future without a doubt. And Folau becomes irrelevant. They are the two certainties here.

[plague]

Didn't they pay him a pittance but had to apologize for any hurt caused to his brand. Cause that's a win for RA as far as I can see. If they don't have to pay his contract out then they've won.

He's only got his GoFundMe wage to live off after this...

general consensus was that he got all his outstanding contract money (between $4-5m). That money he was always gonna get because RA didnt have a case for legally sacking him. The extra $10m in compensation and lost opportunities was always gonna be tough to prove because RA could always trot in sponsors etc to explain they wont support him because hes a bit of a bigot.

He wanted his contract money and apology. he got both. the other stuff was just posturing.
RA got out of it cheaper and saved a bit of face by not being proven to be in the wrong, and got that weird apology from Folau even though im sure hed already publicly done the 'sorry if youre offended'/not sorry apology.


im no fan of his bullshit but its hard to see Folau as anything but the 'winner' in this.

now, as for his future. you just know some team is gonna go after him, maybe not here but OS there are plenty of places that wouldnt care one bit about his social media nonsense.

[plague]

At the end of all of this, RA are going to absolutely tighten up their contracts etc so hate-speech can't be tolerated in future without a doubt. And Folau becomes irrelevant. They are the two certainties here.

applying Member logic to the Member is not a great idea. Plus its now a couple hours since his post so im sure hes done a full 180 and headed off in another direction.

as someone pointed out, its gonna be fun seeing the public support for the first sportsperson to declare jihad on social media.
its a wobbly old line thats now been drawn. good luck to everyone trying to navigate it.

[Frodo]

general consensus was that he got all his outstanding contract money (between $4-5m). That money he was always gonna get because RA didnt have a case for legally sacking him. The extra $10m in compensation and lost opportunities was always gonna be tough to prove because RA could always trot in sponsors etc to explain they wont support him because hes a bit of a bigot.

He wanted his contract money and apology. he got both. the other stuff was just posturing.
RA got out of it cheaper and saved a bit of face by not being proven to be in the wrong, and got that weird apology from Folau even though im sure hed already publicly done the 'sorry if youre offended'/not sorry apology.


im no fan of his bullshit but its hard to see Folau as anything but the 'winner' in this.

now, as for his future. you just know some team is gonna go after him, maybe not here but OS there are plenty of places that wouldnt care one bit about his social media nonsense.

Ok, I thought someone said they only paid him about $300k a year for the remainder of his contract length. 4 years or something? So $1.2 million.


But even at $4 million, they got rid of something that was gonna hurt their brand. They'll learn a lesson and tighten up their contracts from now on.

Also, he's only going to get a game over in the US or some European comp and be forgotten forever bar the odd meme.

[plague]

But even at $4 million, they got rid of something that was gonna hurt their brand.

absolutely, they were gonna pay that money anyway if he played or not, so they didnt really 'lose' anything there.

And if im RA CEO right now im leaning on every single one of those 'woke' sponsors that threatened to walk away from them.
id be making sure the like of QANTAS starting writing them cheques to cover some of these costs. Otherwise id be straight to the media sobbing about corporate australia not wanting to support the team that fought bigotry. and you just know Alan Joyce doesnt want to be 'that guy'.

[MFKS]

The fact there was a settlement could say one of a thousand things.

Parting with a small amount of cash to save future hassle, distraction, money invested into court cases is a tiny trade-off in the grand scheme. Sometimes you need to pay to have your problems go away, even if you shouldn't need to.

Folau settling if anything says to me he knew his case wouldn't go the distance. At the end of the day, Folau has officially withdrawn his appeal. Using your own logic in regards to the Olyroos case mere weeks ago, the lady in question withdrew her complaint so you yourself even stated that she needs to be held accountable for her actions and that there was nothing wrong done by the players in question as officially there is/was no complaint at all. Folau withdrawing his appeal, by your logic, says that there was nothing to appeal and RA did nothing wrong and Folau should be held accountable for the absolute shitstorm he has created which has genuinely crippled the entire Rugby brand in Australia. Or do we flip this logic and the fact the Olyroos complaint being withdrawn proves the 4 players were in the wrong? This is one of those cases I struggle to find consistency in your arguments again, MFKFC.

At the end of all of this, RA are going to absolutely tighten up their contracts etc so hate-speech can't be tolerated in future without a doubt. And Folau becomes irrelevant. They are the two certainties here.

Rugby Australia are responsible for the shit storm they created

Folau paraphrased my book


So he ain't done a thing wrong at all and he is entitled to practice his religion

[Macca]

Rugby Australia are responsible for the shit storm they created

Folau paraphrased my book


So he ain't done a thing wrong at all and he is entitled to practice his religion

And employers are entitled to choose their employees.

Really don't see what the big deal is.

[StannyCFCJET]

Rugby Australia are responsible for the shit storm they created

Folau paraphrased my book


So he ain't done a thing wrong at all and he is entitled to practice his religion
Then he shouldn't of signed a contract saying agreeing that he couldn't post that kinda hate speech online

[Frodo]

Then he shouldn't of signed a contract saying agreeing that he couldn't post that kinda hate speech online

Supposedly that may have been removed from his new contract.

But still, he clearly brought the game into disrepute, as would all religious people who post/say discriminatory things. I'd get sacked if I said the stuff that he did and my boss found out.

[plague]

But still, he clearly brought the game into disrepute

this is an interesting point.
disrepute with whom? how do we determine the level at which he has 'damaged the brand'? there were clearly other players in the team who supported his beliefs. so where do they stand now? they can have those beliefs but not publicise them, can they vote no (or campaign to vote no) in the Marriage equality debate? can they say it but not use social media etc? its a weird place to try and police thats for sure.

im not arguing your point, as i believe the guy is a dope and a bigot. but i wonder where the line is drawn for how many people need to be offended for something to be offensive.

one thing is for sure, the Marriage equality vote a few years back at least gave people standing up to his behaviour a some data.

because previous, the retort always was 'only 5% of Australians are gay so they dont matter' and 'the majority of Australians believe in a God of some sort so he is supporting the majority opinion'.

[plague]

And employers are entitled to choose their employees.

Really don't see what the big deal is.

the big deal all along was Folau being legally allowed to do this under his playing contract apparently. they sacked him for a rule that didnt exist.
so they really did 'choose' a bigot and employed him.

once he had that contract then the law applied and RA were screwed.

future contracts have been amended, but his wasnt. and that was his point all along.

[traffic light]

Didn't they pay him a pittance but had to apologize for any hurt caused to his brand. Cause that's a win for RA as far as I can see. If they don't have to pay his contract out then they've won.

He's only got his GoFundMe wage to live off after this...

Nah. Your leftard attitude is out on this one.

RA stuffed it for siding with lgbti propaganda EG being hysterically offended when no others in the list were.

Hey everyone here, you will go to hell if....Anyone suffering pstd except frodo?

[Frodo]

Nah. Your leftard attitude is out on this one.

RA stuffed it for siding with lgbti propaganda EG being hysterically offended when no others in the list were.

Hey everyone here, you will go to hell if....Anyone suffering pstd except frodo?

I mean, if you're going to try and insult me at least use coherent sentences so I can understand what you're trying to say.

I get the "Leftard" shot. Thats easy.

What was the rest meant to say?

[Frodo]

RA stuffed it for siding with lgbti propaganda EG being hysterically offended when no others in the list were.

Actually I worked out the second part also.

The RA didn't side with LGBTI, they sided with the majority of Australia. (i.e their fan base)

Just because the Membah comes on here rambling about his favourite novels doesn't mean any sane person agrees with him.

[MFKS]

Then he shouldn't of signed a contract saying agreeing that he couldn't post that kinda hate speech online

No such thing as hate speech

That just a term snowflakes use at speech they don't like

All speech is potentially offensive

[pv4]

No such thing as hate speech

Incorrect.

There are laws relating to hate speech.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Australia

[MFKS]

Incorrect.

There are laws relating to hate speech.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Australia

Just more BS from the leftist snowflake generation to pander towards their equality of outcome dream which they will never achieve


Hate speech still doesn't exist and these laws are just tools for them to club those they disagree with

[StannyCFCJET]

Just more BS from the leftist snowflake generation to pander towards their equality of outcome dream which they will never achieve


Hate speech still doesn't exist and these laws are just tools for them to club those they disagree with

Pretty sure both sides agree hate speech exists but you keep living in fairy land

[MFKS]

Pretty sure both sides agree hate speech exists but you keep living in fairy land

No anyone who believes in freedom of speech has no support for the concept of hate speech

They feel you are free to say whatever the **** you like whether they agree with you or not


Those who believe in Hate Speech support censorship and are happy to erode their own freedoms just so as to get their woke points up

We all know which camp you are in

[plague]

The RA didn't side with LGBTI, they sided with the majority of Australia. (i.e their fan base)

to be fair, RA sided with the money.
and thats how sport is run, so doing that shouldn't be seen as any sort of radical approach.

again, having data to point to in defence of their point is vital, as is public sentiment.
but RA only really cared when the money was in trouble.

[plague]

They feel you are free to say whatever the **** you like whether they agree with you or not


yeah nah. thats not exactly how it works.
we have defamation laws. and they work.

[Frodo]

No such thing as hate speech

That just a term snowflakes use at speech they don't like

All speech is potentially offensive

Calls people who don't like things being said snowflakes whilst not liking something that's being said...

Therefore, Member is a snowflake.

[MFKS]

yeah nah. thats not exactly how it works.
we have defamation laws. and they work.

Defamation only applies for false claims
If the statement made is true you can say plenty of bad shit about someone that dafames them

[plague]

Defamation only applies for false claims

nope. wrong again boss.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/sarah-hanson-young-wins-120-000-defamation-award-in-david-leyonhjelm-case

read this and tell me where the lies are.
little buddy still had to pay out 120 large.

[MFKS]

nope. wrong again boss.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/sarah-hanson-young-wins-120-000-defamation-award-in-david-leyonhjelm-case

read this and tell me where the lies are.
little buddy still had to pay out 120 large.

The article makes no reference to what he said

The only comment he made in the article was made in parliament which he can't be sued for

As for whatever it was that cost him 120k there is no mention of it in the article

[StannyCFCJET]

The article makes no reference to what he said

The only comment he made in the article was made in parliament which he can't be sued for

As for whatever it was that cost him 120k there is no mention of it in the article

Be quiet you snowflake, Grown ups are talking

[Frodo]

Be quiet you snowflake, Grown ups are talking

See Stanny, when I said it there was some tact and guile to the comment. I bet the member had a little giggle at my sly little "sit down" retort.

This here is just childish. If YOU can't handle his comments, you should maybe leave while the adults talk.

[MFKS]

See Stanny, when I said it there was some tact and guile to the comment. I bet the member had a little giggle at my sly little "sit down" retort.

This here is just childish. If YOU can't handle his comments, you should maybe leave while the adults talk.

That is what we call getting owned

[StannyCFCJET]

See Stanny, when I said it there was some tact and guile to the comment. I bet the member had a little giggle at my sly little "sit down" retort.

This here is just childish. If YOU can't handle his comments, you should maybe leave while the adults talk.

Can't handle it? His comments are just something to give me several laughs throughout the day

[plague]

The article makes no reference to what he said

The only comment he made in the article was made in parliament which he can't be sued for

As for whatever it was that cost him 120k there is no mention of it in the article

he repeated and expanded the comments he made in Parliament on TV.


“It was in a Motion to consider self-defence. There was a Motion calling on the Government to make it possible for women to protect themselves, thinking in terms of the Eurydice Dixon case or even the Jill Meagher case, and there was the Green’s Senator Janet Rice was making a one minute statement which suggested that it was all men and that men need to change their behaviour and so forth. Sarah called out, I don’t know the exact words because there was a lot of chatter going on, but it was to the effect of, ‘men should stop raping women’, the implication being all men are rapists. Now Sarah’s, this is not a criticism, but Sarah is known for liking men. The rumours about her in Parliament House are well known, so I just said ‘well stop shagging men then Sarah’. I mean it just doesn’t make any sense if you think they’re all rapists why would you shag them? So she took great offence at that which is her problem not my problem. In retrospect I, you know, um she um, she has a right to shag as many men as she likes I don’t care you know … but she took great offence, she came and called me a creep, I told her to … am I allowed to say the F word on TV?”


“She is known for lots of relationships with men, she had a quite famous one with a, with a Liberal member of parliament a few years ago, Barry Haase, now there’s, I am not criticising her for that, she is perfectly entitled to do that, but the double standard”


heres the whole judgement if you want a read.
https://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/judgments/Judgments/fca/single/2019/2019fca1981

also, you can absolutely be fined and jailed for saying shit under Parliamentary privilege.

It aint the free for all you assume it to be.

[The Dunster]

he repeated and expanded the comments he made in Parliament on TV.






heres the whole judgement if you want a read.
https://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/judgments/Judgments/fca/single/2019/2019fca1981

also, you can absolutely be fined and jailed for saying shit under Parliamentary privilege.

It aint the free for all you assume it to be.

To be charged with defamation there needs to be an element of truth in what you say about someone. If someone says something that's 100% fabricated / untrue it's almost impossible to prove because once puffery comes into play the wheels of any defamation case tend to fall off.

[Frodo]

To be charged with defamation there needs to be an element of truth in what you say about someone. If someone says something that's 100% fabricated / untrue it's almost impossible to prove because once puffery comes into play the wheels of any defamation case tend to fall off.

That's very untrue. Like almost 100% false.

Defamation is any false statement that hurts you/your brand financially.

[Skirt Boy]

Defamation only applies for false claims

If the statement made is true you can say plenty of bad shit about someone that dafames them

*puts postgraduate law hat on*

Truth is not an absolute defence to defamation in New South Wales.

It is a defence to the publication of defamatory matter if the defendant proves that—
(a) the matter carried, in addition to the defamatory imputations of which the plaintiff complains, one or more other imputations (contextual imputations) that are substantially true, and
(b) the defamatory imputations do not further harm the reputation of the plaintiff because of the substantial truth of the contextual imputations.

Basically in layman's terms. To use truth as a defence the facts must be well known and not causing further harm to the plaintiff because everyone knows about it.

Secondly. If the publication was delivered with malicious intent. Just about forget about trying to use "truth" as a defence.

[Couscous]

To be charged with defamation there needs to be an element of truth in what you say about someone. If someone says something that's 100% fabricated / untrue it's almost impossible to prove because once puffery comes into play the wheels of any defamation case tend to fall off.

Nyet.

[plague]

i know its obviously a bunch of PR, but a lot of people are out there telling on themselves by holding up a 16yr old as the leader of their movement.

[The Dunster]

i know its obviously a bunch of PR, but a lot of people are out there telling on themselves by holding up a 16yr old as the leader of their movement.

You don't think a 16 year old rich kid without a PhD or any peer reviewed publications in Scientific journals to her name has the solution to global warming ?

How Dare you.

[Macca]

You don't think a 16 year old rich kid without a PhD or any peer reviewed publications in Scientific journals to her name has the solution to global warming ?

How Dare you.

Not that having scientific credentials gives you any validity to your "opinion" anyway. All the scientists have been paid off by Big Solar.

[The Dunster]

Not that having scientific credentials gives you any validity to your "opinion" anyway. All the scientists have been paid off by Big Solar.

It's a business. Scientists are sluts for the dollar like everyone else so they adhere to the group think that will keep the money coming in.

[pv4]

You don't think a 16 year old rich kid without a PhD or any peer reviewed publications in Scientific journals to her name has the solution to global warming ?

How Dare you.

:rof:

[MFKS]

i know its obviously a bunch of PR, but a lot of people are out there telling on themselves by holding up a 16yr old as the leader of their movement.

Says plenty about the posers who have pushed her to the prominence she has

Child
Female
Mental disabilities etc

They wheeling someone out who is basically protected from criticism on many fronts

Even those having a go at her are treading carefully because it like picking on a retarded kid

[plague]

whoa, this UK election certainly was a thing.
Boris should bow down and pray to the Baby Griff every day that he found someone to go up against who was even more of a scumbag that him.

because to find a bigger scumbag than Boris sure does take some searching.

[Frodo]

All the scientists have been paid off by Big Solar.

Just checking, do you think Big Solar is a thing or was this a joke? Cause it seemed like a joke at first, bit now that's I've read it back I'm less sure. Please tell me it's a joke, please.

[MFKS]

whoa, this UK election certainly was a thing.
Boris should bow down and pray to the Baby Griff every day that he found someone to go up against who was even more of a scumbag that him.

because to find a bigger scumbag than Boris sure does take some searching.

Corbyn is more or less a communist with NFI
It like having someone like Richard DiNatale in charge of one of the major parties in Oz

[pv4]

Just checking, do you think Big Solar is a thing or was this a joke? Cause it seemed like a joke at first, bit now that's I've read it back I'm less sure. Please tell me it's a joke, please.

Macca was 100% joking.

It wouldn't surprise me if others believed it though.

[pv4]

whoa, this UK election certainly was a thing.
Boris should bow down and pray to the Baby Griff every day that he found someone to go up against who was even more of a scumbag that him.

because to find a bigger scumbag than Boris sure does take some searching.

Trump election
Shorten losing the unlosable election
Boris being voted in

At what point do the left look at themselves, because clearly and evidently what they are currently doing is not only not working, but seemingly working against them.

It's not isolated to one country either, looking at these examples. Globally the left are failing.

[plague]

Trump election
Shorten losing the unlosable election
Boris being voted in

At what point do the left look at themselves, because clearly and evidently what they are currently doing is not only not working, but seemingly working against them.

It's not isolated to one country either, looking at these examples. Globally the left are failing.

the thing about 'the left' thats always baffled me is how they manage to have the better message, but the worst messengers.
every country should be aiming to educate their youth, treat their sick and empower the powerless and look after those less fortunate than themselves.
any person who doesnt emphasise with these type of policies are ****ing assholes.

but man oh man, the way they attempt to pay for, and 'sell' their message is always, time after time, done in the most intergalactically stupid way possible.

how can a side with such normal, decent policies have such fundamentally flawed leaders like Clinton, Shorten and Corbyn.

the odds have to be insane.
i dont get it.

[Frodo]

the thing about 'the left' thats always baffled me is how they manage to have the better message, but the worst messengers.
every country should be aiming to educate their youth, treat their sick and empower the powerless and look after those less fortunate than themselves.
any person who doesnt emphasise with these type of policies are ****ing assholes.

but man oh man, the way they attempt to pay for, and 'sell' their message is always, time after time, done in the most intergalactically stupid way possible.

how can a side with such normal, decent policies have such fundamentally flawed leaders like Clinton, Shorten and Corbyn.

the odds have to be insane.
i dont get it.

I think it's much easier to be seen as a strong leader if you are pushing right wing ideas than left because they are a challenge. Pushing Left wing ideas is so central/common sense nowadays it's hard to do it with a big dick swinging round knocking people over. Which is exactly what people still seem to want from a leader. Boris Johnson backflips on his policies every few years but he does it with so much noise and frothing that he seems like a man on a mission.

The left leaders with bravado are the really left ones like Bernie or the right wing transfers/Wolves in sheep's clothing Biden/Bloomberg. But they are also the ones that the left centralists don't want. So the left falls over itself internally.

If people worked out that a president or prime minister is only a figure head the left would never be out of office and we'd have a whole different way to be ****ed by the government.

[MFKS]

the thing about 'the left' thats always baffled me is how they manage to have the better message, but the worst messengers.
every country should be aiming to educate their youth, treat their sick and empower the powerless and look after those less fortunate than themselves.
any person who doesnt emphasise with these type of policies are ****ing assholes.

but man oh man, the way they attempt to pay for, and 'sell' their message is always, time after time, done in the most intergalactically stupid way possible.

how can a side with such normal, decent policies have such fundamentally flawed leaders like Clinton, Shorten and Corbyn.

the odds have to be insane.
i dont get it.

Better message??

What free shit to buy votes??

Free Health Care
Free Education
Free this
Free that if you vote for us??

Someone has to pay for it

Nothing is free

They are just basically trying to buy power with bribes

Problem for them is people see through their BS

They offer nothing but words

They are wolves in sheep's clothing

[Frodo]

Better message??

What free shit to buy votes??

Free Health Care
Free Education
Free this
Free that if you vote for us??

Someone has to pay for it

Nothing is free

They are just basically trying to buy power with bribes

Problem for them is people see through their BS

They offer nothing but words

They are wolves in sheep's clothing

Compared to your system of giving unlimited wealth and power to 1% of the people and then sitting back happy that you can say racist shit at people and laugh at the poor?

The lefts message is only bullshit if you've spent so long eating the deep fried bullshit that TV land has sold you. You aren't wealthy, you never will be, you don't matter. That's the true message that the Right lives by.

[MFKS]

Compared to your system of giving unlimited wealth and power to 1% of the people and then sitting back happy that you can say racist shit at people and laugh at the poor?

The lefts message is only bullshit if you've spent so long eating the deep fried bullshit that TV land has sold you. You aren't wealthy, you never will be, you don't matter. That's the true message that the Right lives by.

I don't watch TV

So your point is irrelevant

The right believes in personal responsibility and providing for oneself

Not being a leech on the system which is exactly what the left advocates for

The left are quite happy to play the divisive tactics because it is all a ploy from them as they want to make victims of everyone to keep the people from fulfilling their potential

As for the rich having 1% of the wealth

I don't give two ****s about them

The system we have at present provides opportunity for those prepared to get off their arse to achieve

You want a system that hinders success being achieved by giving handouts to all

[plague]

Better message??

What free shit to buy votes??

Free Health Care
Free Education
Free this
Free that if you vote for us??


except, yanno, i never mentioned anything being free.
but still, feel free to read the posts you're quoting.

[plague]

sitting back happy that you can say racist shit at people and laugh at the poor?



politicians doing this? nah. it legit isnt like that.
not from proper pollies in govt.

[pv4]

I think it's much easier to be seen as a strong leader if you are pushing right wing ideas than left because they are a challenge. Pushing Left wing ideas is so central/common sense nowadays it's hard to do it with a big dick swinging round knocking people over. Which is exactly what people still seem to want from a leader. Boris Johnson backflips on his policies every few years but he does it with so much noise and frothing that he seems like a man on a mission.

The left leaders with bravado are the really left ones like Bernie or the right wing transfers/Wolves in sheep's clothing Biden/Bloomberg. But they are also the ones that the left centralists don't want. So the left falls over itself internally.

If people worked out that a president or prime minister is only a figure head the left would never be out of office and we'd have a whole different way to be ****ed by the government.

Meanwhile the right are walking in elections that were meant to be unlosable by the left, globally, yet all I hear from the left is why do the left need to change when the right don't need to change. The right have everything on a lock, they have no reason the change. Until the left look in the mirror, they'll be left with their dick in their hands and have nothing to show for it. The only people they appeal to are the people already sternly appealed to them (for an easy eg, see the social media hivemind), and spread hate to everyone else. That's not going to win them power for a very long time.

[MFKS]

except, yanno, i never mentioned anything being free.
but still, feel free to read the posts you're quoting.

Go look at the leftists running for the DMC candidacy

They don't offer any solutions that work

Just free shit to win votes

[The Dunster]

Go look at the leftists running for the DMC candidacy

They don't offer any solutions that work

Just free shit to win votes

Free shit to win votes is not a strategy exclusive to the left.

Tax cuts, ecemptions, contracts that don't go though any tender process....

Governments are only constrained by real resources. It's never a case of running out of money.

[Frodo]

I don't watch TV

So your point is irrelevant

The right believes in personal responsibility and providing for oneself

Not being a leech on the system which is exactly what the left advocates for

The left are quite happy to play the divisive tactics because it is all a ploy from them as they want to make victims of everyone to keep the people from fulfilling their potential

As for the rich having 1% of the wealth

I don't give two ****s about them

The system we have at present provides opportunity for those prepared to get off their arse to achieve

You want a system that hinders success being achieved by giving handouts to all

If the right believed in personal responsibility they wouldn't mind paying their taxes. The true leeches on our society are the 1% with all their tax breaks and bailouts.

[MFKS]

If the right believed in personal responsibility they wouldn't mind paying their taxes. The true leeches on our society are the 1% with all their tax breaks and bailouts.

Keep hammering on about the top 1% as it does **** all for your point to select a small sample and accuse them of being responsible for all the world's ills

The reality is they are successful at what they do and you are envious as all ****

Us on the right don't give a **** about them and nor should we

Always bizarre how you leftists want to demonize the exact thing you want to become

Plus the 1% pay plenty of taxes

You just think they should be paying more because you want to subsidise the weak

[MFKS]

Free shit to win votes is not a strategy exclusive to the left.

Tax cuts, ecemptions, contracts that don't go though any tender process....

Governments are only constrained by real resources. It's never a case of running out of money.

No one said it was exclusive to the left

It though is a problem that afflicts the left more than any other

Free Health
Free Education
Free this Free that

But when it comes time to pay the bill they have no answer other than day tax the rich

Which ain't any solution as they won't want to work hard if they can't be successful

[Frodo]

Keep hammering on about the top 1% as it does **** all for your point to select a small sample and accuse them of being responsible for all the world's ills

The reality is they are successful at what they do and you are envious as all ****

Us on the right don't give a **** about them and nor should we

Always bizarre how you leftists want to demonize the exact thing you want to become

Plus the 1% pay plenty of taxes

You just think they should be paying more because you want to subsidise the weak

You're mistaking more tax with equal tax. If they paid the same tax rate that I do there'd be no issue. Your right wing pollies keeps giving all those rich, supposedly successful business owners more help than anyone else, and then they trick idiots into thinking it's the welfare recipients and immigrants draining resources.

[Skirt Boy]

I don't watch TV


The right believes in personal responsibility and providing for oneself

The system we have at present provides opportunity for those prepared to get off their arse to achieve



Are you ****ing serious?

What happens if you're born in poverty, have an accident, disabled, support Arsenal?

I can tell you now. This country is ****ed.

Australia should be about everyone having a fair crack at life. Yet we pay our unemployed and amount that is less than what a politician gets as an allowance for being in Canberra doing their ****ing job.

Get the **** out of here member.

[plague]

Go look at the leftists running for the DMC candidacy

They don't offer any solutions that work

Just free shit to win votes

i know right, its just like i said back in that post that you disagreed with then agreed with in a matter of hours.
on fire son.

[plague]

The true leeches on our society are the 1% with all their tax breaks and bailouts.

the leeches are the ones making the rules in Parliament. no way they are costing themselves a damn dollar.
you think any of shortens planned negative gearing changes were gonna get voted in when such a large % of the parliament utilises the scheme?
by sheer nature of being in that room, every politician, department head and major consultant are automatically in the top 5% of income earners.
they are the rich that you despise, but you cant vote them out because another 'rich' person just jumps in the seat.
the idea of 'taxing the rich' will never, ever ever work. not because its the wrong ideal, but its asking the 'rich' to volunteer their money. and life dont work like that.

[Frodo]

the leeches are the ones making the rules in Parliament. no way they are costing themselves a damn dollar.
you think any of shortens planned negative gearing changes were gonna get voted in when such a large % of the parliament utilises the scheme?
by sheer nature of being in that room, every politician, department head and major consultant are automatically in the top 5% of income earners.
they are the rich that you despise, but you cant vote them out because another 'rich' person just jumps in the seat.
the idea of 'taxing the rich' will never, ever ever work. not because its the wrong ideal, but its asking the 'rich' to volunteer their money. and life dont work like that.

I understand that 100% and it hurts.

[MFKS]

Are you ****ing serious?

What happens if you're born in poverty, have an accident, disabled, support Arsenal?

I can tell you now. This country is ****ed.

Australia should be about everyone having a fair crack at life. Yet we pay our unemployed and amount that is less than what a politician gets as an allowance for being in Canberra doing their ****ing job.

Get the **** out of here member.

That the world we live in

It ain't ****ing fair and balanced

If you want to achieve anything in life bend your back and have a go

Plenty of places in the world exist with out welfare

Guess what happens there ??

The locals get off their arse and earn a $ or they don't eat


Here we have a nation of lazy unemployed ****s who are also fat ****s to boot
How the **** does that happen??

[MFKS]

You're mistaking more tax with equal tax. If they paid the same tax rate that I do there'd be no issue. Your right wing pollies keeps giving all those rich, supposedly successful business owners more help than anyone else, and then they trick idiots into thinking it's the welfare recipients and immigrants draining resources.

Welfare and immigrants are a drain on resources that there is no doubt

But the biggest drain on resources in this country is the bureaucracy in the government

That costs us billions every year yet you want to moan about people minimising their tax as some giant issue

The reality is that the rich are the ones paying the taxes now

They are paying more than their share and getting the least out of the system

It the lower end of society paying the least and then using the most and then bleating about how hard done they are whilst they have blokes like Skirt Boy championing their cause of being lazy

[Skirt Boy]

The Dole. Do you want to know why it is kept so low? Because it forces people into shitty employment and gives big business all the power because if you lose your job. What is the alternative?

This is why we have the casualisation of the workforce. This is why we have so much part time work. This is why companies have been caught out underpaying staff.


And this is just the Dole.......................

[plague]

This is why companies have been caught out underpaying staff.


because employees have never lied to their bosses, ever.
nope. all one way traffic there chief.

there are shit bosses, there are shit employees, then there are shit government sponsored schemes possibly designed in good faith but exploited (legally) by employers (like Grill'd) because guess what, employers want to make more money every year just like their workers do.

[Frodo]

Welfare and immigrants are a drain on resources that there is no doubt

But the biggest drain on resources in this country is the bureaucracy in the government

That costs us billions every year yet you want to moan about people minimising their tax as some giant issue

The reality is that the rich are the ones paying the taxes now

They are paying more than their share and getting the least out of the system

It the lower end of society paying the least and then using the most and then bleating about how hard done they are whilst they have blokes like Skirt Boy championing their cause of being lazy

I wish I lived in your world member.

You envy 3rd world countries, yet you seem to forget that the only reason your enjoy them is because our economy gulfs theirs. So you get to put in a quarter of their effort for 10 times the pay. Then you talk about lazy people not working hard enough.

The rich pay more than their share? So when I pay over 40% in tax and big business pays about 26% on average how's that their fair share? (Westfarmers, Coles etc). Please explain that one too me?

[Skirt Boy]

because employees have never lied to their bosses, ever.
nope. all one way traffic there chief.

there are shit bosses, there are shit employees, then there are shit government sponsored schemes possibly designed in good faith but exploited (legally) by employers (like Grill'd) because guess what, employers want to make more money every year just like their workers do.

Mate you are wrong. Business deliberately did this with the mistaken belief that they could get away with it because of the trashing of unions, workers rights and the casualisation of the workforce.............

[plague]

Mate you are wrong. Business deliberately did this with the mistaken belief that they could get away with it because of the trashing of unions, workers rights and the casualisation of the workforce.............

are you using a specific example or just the tired old "all bosses bad" mantra?

[Skirt Boy]

are you using a specific example or just the tired old "all bosses bad" mantra?

If it was a company here or there. Yep mistakes happen. But you are talking about some of the largest companies in the country. Many of whom have dedicated HR and legal..............

[MFKS]

I wish I lived in your world member.

You envy 3rd world countries, yet you seem to forget that the only reason your enjoy them is because our economy gulfs theirs. So you get to put in a quarter of their effort for 10 times the pay. Then you talk about lazy people not working hard enough.

The rich pay more than their share? So when I pay over 40% in tax and big business pays about 26% on average how's that their fair share? (Westfarmers, Coles etc). Please explain that one too me?

You should live in my world

It called reality

Company tax and individual tax are too separate classes
You trying to compare apples with oranges there pal

May I though point out that Coles Westerners etc are paying hundreds of millions in tax. I don't think you are contributing anywhere near that amount

Thailand isn't a 3rd world country
The ****ing internet works there
The signal drops out numerous times on the Sydney to Newy train line in 2019 FFS

[MFKS]

The Dole. Do you want to know why it is kept so low? Because it forces people into shitty employment and gives big business all the power because if you lose your job. What is the alternative?

This is why we have the casualisation of the workforce. This is why we have so much part time work. This is why companies have been caught out underpaying staff.


And this is just the Dole.......................

You want to keep hammering on about the unfairness of the situation

I ask then you to suggest an alternative to capitalism because that is your big bug bear here. You are just bitter as you think capitalism fails

I do look forward to your reply to see how close it is to socialism


Floor is yours

[Jetmaster]

Australia should be about everyone having a fair crack at life. Yet we pay our unemployed and amount that is less than what a politician gets as an allowance for being in Canberra doing their ****ing job.

Get the **** out of here member.

Everyone does have a fair crack. Having worked in government welfare and job network I can give you many examples of people dragging themselves out of the gutter to become a great success and also people sabotaging any job offer by being a dick eg (rocking up drunk first day).

I have interviewed 16yo kids whose ambition is to "get me pension". Anyone can be prosperous if they put in the hard yards.

[plague]

If it was a company here or there. Yep mistakes happen. But you are talking about some of the largest companies in the country. Many of whom have dedicated HR and legal..............

nah. there are genuine mistakes with pay rates (as an employer, i encourage everyone to go look up the award rates handbook - my goodness if you think you're getting every shift exactly right every time then you're kidding yourself). One miscalculation if left unchecked can result in millions over the course of a few years if you have a lot of staff (like the companies you speak of). Every big company has HR and legal because......they need to make sure they are paying their staff correctly and have all their legal rights maintained. there are laws available to govts to prosecute employers who break their laws. i dont know any major company that has had a HR and legal staff working in conjunction with 'the bosses' to scam staff.

i used the Grill'd example because everyone made out like they were cheating their staff when it looks like they were acting legally but taking advantage of a govt program. again, there is a difference.

if you've got examples of this systemic illegal behaviour then please point me in the right direction.

[Skirt Boy]

You want to keep hammering on about the unfairness of the situation

I ask then you to suggest an alternative to capitalism because that is your big bug bear here. You are just bitter as you think capitalism fails

I do look forward to your reply to see how close it is to socialism


Floor is yours

The alternative is to actually make sure that people are treated with dignity, respect and to ensure irrespective of a person's background they have the same chances as everyone else.

That is it.

Now if it means multi-nationals get taxed. Large companies get broken up and the government nationalises certains industry to be able to do it. Then that is what we need to do.

Australia in 2019 should not have a single homeless person.

Australia in 2019 should not have old pensioners skipping macular degeneration injections because of a lack of money

Australia in 2019 should not have kids skipping meals

Australia in 2019 should not have a higher proportion of Indigenous peoples in custody

Australia in 2019 should not have the lowest unemployment benefit in the OECD

Australia in 2019 should not have a single person in poverty

[Skirt Boy]

if you've got examples of this systemic illegal behaviour then please point me in the right direction.

It's the sheer number of companies involved. And it's not just restricted to dodgy cafes and fast food joints. Optus, Bunnings it's endless.

And I'll say it straight out. Directors need to start being held criminally liable and be sent to gaol. This whole thing is systemic.

[plague]

It's the sheer number of companies involved. And it's not just restricted to dodgy cafes and fast food joints. Optus, Bunnings it's endless.

And I'll say it straight out. Directors need to start being held criminally liable and be sent to gaol. This whole thing is systemic.

ok for context. the Bunnings "wage theft" (Albos words, not yours) was an average underpayment of around $90 per staff member affected (around $160 once interest and compensation was attached). So this big scandal of ****ing over the workers was really such a miniscule clerical error that multiplied over time into a big sexy number.

in that same time their bills have gone through the roof, as has their taxes as the pollies find millions and billions more each time to fund submarines, blue cables and fix the great barrier reef. there is more theft going on via the government than any employer will ever sting them with.

if any worker out there thinks their employer was out to get them because they 'lost' the grand sum of about $160 over the course of 10 years then my god they need to understand what real struggle is.


now, your other point. im absolutely down with throwing any and all of the real ****ers behind bars. but we just had a royal commission into the biggest scumbags of them all (financial sector) and not one charge will be laid and not one day will be spent in jail.
even the ones that lost their jobs walked away with a payout. and again, that was both sides of politics that let all this slide. the one time the hippies want to listen to Hanson etc her appeals get no support in Parliament because theres no way the suits are gonna lock up their donors. that not how the system works.


and yes, the system sucks.

[MFKS]

Everyone does have a fair crack. Having worked in government welfare and job network I can give you many examples of people dragging themselves out of the gutter to become a great success and also people sabotaging any job offer by being a dick eg (rocking up drunk first day).

I have interviewed 16yo kids whose ambition is to "get me pension". Anyone can be prosperous if they put in the hard yards.

That the bit that Skirt Boy seems to miss

The opportunity is there for all people in Western countries to have a prosperous life

So many ****s piss away the opportunity then they expect a ****ing hand out after they have failed to have a go

Under Skirt Boys view of the world those that actually did bend their backs and pay for the lazy ****ers who didn't

Then he will whine about some unfairness yet not see the unfairness he inflicts on those who are doing the right thing by holding down.employment and taking care of their own shit

[MFKS]

The alternative it to actually make sure that people are treated with dignity, respect and to ensure irrespective of a person's background they have the same chances as everyone else.
We already have laws in place that see that there is no institutional discrimination except we do have actual discrimination as we pander to women and minorities rather than selecting on merit

That is it.

Now if it means multi-nationals get taxed. Large companies get broken up and the government nationalises certains to be able to do it. Then that is what we need to do. So being we live in a society of capitalism you choose to actually punish the success stories who actually got somewhere by hard work and sacrifice and reward those who didn't work hard and didn't sacrifice??

So under that basis we should drop Labuschagne for the Boxing Day Test and bring Shaun Marsh into the side??

That is how ****ed up your logic is here

Australia in 2019 should not have a single homeless person.
Get a job and you can have a house. Not hard concept

Australia in 2019 should not have old pensioners skipping macular degeneration injections because of a lack of money
What stopping them getting into a position in life that meant they could support themselves in retirement. Oh hang on that means taking responsibility for yourself in life. You advocate that no one takes responsibility and that hand outs should be mandated

Australia in 2019 should not have kids skipping meals
Last I looked kids in 2019 could skip a few meals and go for a run and lose some ****ing weight.They ain't short of food in this country that for sure

Australia in 2019 should not have should not have a higher proportion of Indigenous peoples in custody
Maybe if they stop committing crimes at rates higher than the rest of Australian society that won't be the case. But no you go ahead and make excuses for illegal activity if you want. I will expect them to take responsibility for their actions

Australia in 2019 should not have the lowest unemployment benefit in the OECD
That should be lower. Not being a productive component of society shouldn't see you get a free hand out

Australia in 2019 should not have not have a single person in poverty. Bob Hawke said that no child will be living in poverty by 1990 in the 80s . Won't ever happen whilst we have social programs in place that encourage laziness and welfare dependence. Initiatives that your ideas encourage .

[Frodo]

To be honest I don't believe anyone in here, even you Jetmaster, has any real insight into the systems and lifestyles that "breed"/create welfare recipients. And I think that's a positive. The welfare system is trash, everyone agrees with that, the main difference it seems is that some of you want these people on the streets and into our hospitals with easily treatable diseases and spiralling further down a hole and some of us hope there's a better way.

I know wealthy people, and I know full well that they don't work hard for their money. The rich like to use the story of battling hard workers who blossom into millionaires to tease the sheep into thinking that hard work = success when it's pretty simple logic to understand that it doesn't.

Money breeds money. Poverty breeds poverty.

I'd be happy with a system that removes the second of those at a minimum, but I'm also on board for eating the rich and removing the first.

[The Dunster]

Real wages are growing slower than profits. That means workers incomes are not sufficient to purchase the goods and services they produce.

Hot tip. Real wages are determined with the cpi. Real gdp is determined with a gdp deflator.

You can't simply use nominal data as cpi takes into account both domestic and imported goods purchased as a basket for the the "normal consumer". The gdp deflator is only concerned with domestic incomes but for all goods and services produced including those not in the basket of goods the CPI takes into account.

In layman's terms the wages share of total income is shrinking and no matter how hard you work in aggregate your productivity gains are being appropriated towards profits not wages.

The Member is once again wrong. Some people will benefit but many will miss out.

None of this affects me but it certainly makes things hard for the younger generations - there are opportunities - but the day of simply choosing to work hard to make a good living are well and truly gone.

Governments control employment through their budgetary stance and they do this because of massive pressure from lobby groups over the past 45 years or more.

Unemployment exists because governments choose it - not because people don't want to work.

If the private sector wishes to save and the current account is in deficit then the only way to keep employment stable is for the government to run a deficit - it's not politics - it's arithmetic.

If you leave employment up to the private sector without any government involvement you have unemployment - and lots of it because the private sector is inherently unstable and incapable of producing full employment.

[MFKS]

Real wages are growing slower than profits. That means workers incomes are not sufficient to purchase the goods and services they produce.

Hot tip. Real wages are determined with the cpi. Real gdp is determined with a gdp deflator.

You can't simply use nominal data as cpi takes into account both domestic and imported goods purchased as a basket for the the "normal consumer". The gdp deflator is only concerned with domestic incomes but for all goods and services produced including those not in the basket of goods the CPI takes into account.

In layman's terms the wages share of total income is shrinking and no matter how hard you work in aggregate your productivity gains are being appropriated towards profits not wages.

The Member is once again wrong. Some people will benefit but many will miss out.

None of this affects me but it certainly makes things hard for the younger generations - there are opportunities - but the day of simply choosing to work hard to make a good living are well and truly gone.

Governments control employment through their budgetary stance and they do this because of massive pressure from lobby groups over the past 45 years or more.

Unemployment exists because governments choose it - not because people don't want to work.

If the private sector wishes to save and the current account is in deficit then the only way to keep employment stable is for the government to run a deficit - it's not politics - it's arithmetic.

If you leave employment up to the private sector without any government involvement you have unemployment - and lots of it because the private sector is inherently unstable and incapable of producing full employment.

Of course the system benefits some

The system we have in place benefits those that are prepared to bend their backs at the expense of those wanting a handout

I am 100% for this

You are right that the government is a massive factor in this situation

The excessive levels of regulation and excessive levels if government that we have are a leech on the system and exacerbate the problems capitalism can bring

[Frodo]

Of course the system benefits some

The system we have in place benefits those that are prepared to bend their backs at the expense of those wanting a handout

I am 100% for this

You are right that the government is a massive factor in this situation

The excessive levels of regulation and excessive levels if government that we have are a leech on the system and exacerbate the problems capitalism can bring

But that's simply not true. You don't get paid based on how much work you do, which is what you are trying to claim is how the system works.

Nowadays the main factors that determine what you get paid are outside of your control. (Country of birth, parents wealth, timing, availability of opportunities, etc).


And again, you talk about handouts but fail to recognise things like the $498 billion bailout from the 2008 recession. How does that compare to welfare payments??

Capitalism is a terrible system that only benefits a certain few. Unfortunately though, we don't have an alternative. So we are all screwed.

[The Dunster]

Even billionaires are victims of capitalism. There are no winners in terms of what Adam Smith or later on Karl Marx discussed with respect to people being "separated from their species being" through the division of labour. [Alienation and self-estrangement].

It doesn't matter how many tickets you can afford to buy in the raffle - the end prize is the same for all of us.

[Skirt Boy]

Despite being a communist sympathiser I do actually believe that capitalism works. But it needs to be highly regulated.

Some things that would bring fairness to the system.

1. Minimum wage based around the idea that a single person can afford a basic apartment, transportation and basic entertainment.

2. Rental controls based on the idea that rent is capped to 30% of a person's income. Rich people will still rent in rich suburbs, poor in poor suburbs. But what it does do is equalise rental costs to income.

3. Unemployed rate set at a level as a fixed percentage of the minimum wage.

4. Social Welfare insurance levy of 1% for workers and 5% for corporate entities. Setup similar to superannuation. After 12 months of continuous employment a person can receive up to 75% of the income of the last job and this decreases over time to the base unemployment rate.

5. Remove the medicare safety net and abolish gap payments and scrap private health insurance. Dental and optical to be fully covered by Medicare.

6. 100% free education. Entry to university to be purely by merit with allowances for disadvantage.

7. Remove tax concessions for entities with a gross revenue of a certain amount adjusted to inflation.

8. Introduce taxation to religious organisations.

9. Government to take over all charitable services with such services funded by the taxation of religion and the removal of aid grants to organisations who provide such services.

10. Baby/Education bonus. A lump sum is deposited into a special account similar to superannuation up on the birth of a child. Provided the child finishes school and gains qualifications (degree, trade) or full time employment for 5 years after finishing education. They have their house deposit.

11. Complete phasing out of fossil fuels for electricity generation and the cessation of export. National company established to mine, manufacture and sell renewable energy.

12. Renewal of the rail network.

13. Limit the size of trucks

14. Disability pension and aged pension to be set at the rate of minimum wage

15. Introduce proportional representation into parliament and double the size of members in the house of reps.

[Frodo]

6. 100% free education. Entry to university to be purely by merit with allowances for disadvantage.

Remove the word University and I'm in. TAFE can be more useful than University for most industries, it's just not as profitable for the higher ups. If education is free, university's can fine tune their programs and TAFE can increase into more specialised centres. Trade school, business school, nursing school, IT school, etc. Yes, you'll need to travel to cities to get some specific degrees but you'll walk out with the correct skills to do the job. Rather than a degree that taught you half of what you need to know.

[plague]

Despite being a communist sympathiser I do actually believe that capitalism works. But it needs to be highly regulated.

Some things that would bring fairness to the system.

1. Minimum wage based around the idea that a single person can afford a basic apartment, transportation and basic entertainment.

2. Rental controls based on the idea that rent is capped to 30% of a person's income. Rich people will still rent in rich suburbs, poor in poor suburbs. But what it does do is equalise rental costs to income.

3. Unemployed rate set at a level as a fixed percentage of the minimum wage.

4. Social Welfare insurance levy of 1% for workers and 5% for corporate entities. Setup similar to superannuation. After 12 months of continuous employment a person can receive up to 75% of the income of the last job and this decreases over time to the base unemployment rate.

5. Remove the medicare safety net and abolish gap payments and scrap private health insurance. Dental and optical to be fully covered by Medicare.

6. 100% free education. Entry to university to be purely by merit with allowances for disadvantage.

7. Remove tax concessions for entities with a gross revenue of a certain amount adjusted to inflation.

8. Introduce taxation to religious organisations.

9. Government to take over all charitable services with such services funded by the taxation of religion and the removal of aid grants to organisations who provide such services.

10. Baby/Education bonus. A lump sum is deposited into a special account similar to superannuation up on the birth of a child. Provided the child finishes school and gains qualifications (degree, trade) or full time employment for 5 years after finishing education. They have their house deposit.

11. Complete phasing out of fossil fuels for electricity generation and the cessation of export. National company established to mine, manufacture and sell renewable energy.

12. Renewal of the rail network.

13. Limit the size of trucks

14. Disability pension and aged pension to be set at the rate of minimum wage

15. Introduce proportional representation into parliament and double the size of members in the house of reps.

thats gotta be the most rad post ive ever read on here.
theres so much going on.

[plague]

2. Rental controls based on the idea that rent is capped to 30% of a person's income. Rich people will still rent in rich suburbs, poor in poor suburbs. But what it does do is equalise rental costs to income.


what about poor people that want to live in rich suburbs?

[plague]

6. Entry to university to be purely by merit with allowances for disadvantage.

this is how the system already works.
you have to meet the standards, and then theres other ways to get in if you dont yeah?

[plague]

15. Introduce proportional representation into parliament and double the size of members in the house of reps.

get them to eat more?
supplements?
bah gawd, image how big Kim Beazley would have been under this policy.
House of Reps would look like a WWE road show.

[Skirt Boy]

thats gotta be the most rad post ive ever read on here.
theres so much going on.

Government is not hard. You could implement all of these policies and a few more in a similar way and Canberra would only need council workers to maintain the parks and run the museums. The problem is that nobody likes to give and everyone likes to take so the governments of the day generally do things that get them the most votes.

[Skirt Boy]

what about poor people that want to live in rich suburbs?

It's up to the property owner to decide who ultimately rents. They simply have a limit to what they can charge.

[plague]

The problem is that nobody likes to give and everyone likes to take

your whole manifesto up there is pretty much about taking shit off people.
whats to say they deserve to get it taken off them?

[plague]

It's up to the property owner to decide who ultimately rents. They simply have a limit to what they can charge.

so poor people wont get a place at all. because someone is always gonna have more than the other guy to rent the joint. whats the motivator for the landlord to take less money and give it to a poor person?
this policy does not work the way you intend it to.

[Skirt Boy]

your whole manifesto up there is pretty much about taking shit off people.
whats to say they deserve to get it taken off them?

It's full of compromise. You will notice that even the poor have to contribute to the social welfare insurance. The labour pool in mining can easily be transferred to manufacturing and transportation..............


Let's look at it another way. A standard two adult, two kid family irrespective of whether they live in Windale or Rankin Park would in general terms have very similar cost of living expenses excluding housing. The same car rego, same light bills, same phone bills, same fuel bills. The difference is actually quite small. Yet because of income levels the rich as a proportion of income spend less.

What ideas like my manifesto float is to equalise the cost of living without preventing people from moving up and ensuring fairness.

[Skirt Boy]

so poor people wont get a place at all. because someone is always gonna have more than the other guy to rent the joint. whats the motivator for the landlord to take less money and give it to a poor person?
this policy does not work the way you intend it to.

Who wants to move to Windale or Hamo South?

[plague]

Who wants to move to Windale or Hamo South?

i dunno, why wouldnt people want to live there?

[plague]

The labour pool in mining can easily be transferred to manufacturing and transportation..............


yeah this here is some absolute codswallop.
this whole "yeah finish one job on friday start your new one monday" is some bullshit that keeps getting peddled.


im not sure you know the % of 'unskilled' labour up in the mines and to just say 'oh yeah dumptruck driver on $120k+ theres a job for you at the windmill on the same cash with no down period' is crap and you all know it.

meanwhile dumptruck driver still getting that mortgage hit every month, and his kids gotta eat every day. but yeah, im sure him and all the other TA's up there are cool cool with all the uncertainty of whether they have any sort of future based on the whim of Politicians eager to get in that photo with Greta.

legit nonsense.

[Skirt Boy]

yeah this here is some absolute codswallop.
this whole "yeah finish one job on friday start your new one monday" is some bullshit that keeps getting peddled.


im not sure you know the % of 'unskilled' labour up in the mines and to just say 'oh yeah dumptruck driver on $120k+ theres a job for you at the windmill on the same cash with no down period' is crap and you all know it.

meanwhile dumptruck driver still getting that mortgage hit every month, and his kids gotta eat every day. but yeah, im sure him and all the other TA's up there are cool cool with all the uncertainty of whether they have any sort of future based on the whim of Politicians eager to get in that photo with Greta.

legit nonsense.

No it's not. A dump truck driver can easily be transferred over into road truck driving. Providing we make our own renewables you still need drivers. You still need unskilled labour in manufacturing. You still need the unskilled labour to work on the rail renewal.

[MFKS]

Skirt Boys version of capitalism looks awfully communist in appearance

Forcing people to accept lower than market value for providing of goods and services ain't gonna wash for anyone

Just as being told where you can live won't wash

Imagine being told to live in Woy Woy or Gosford ??

The problem with you communist sympathisers wanting to put your utopian dream on the rest of us is that you can currently go live in China or Nth Korea and live your dream now

Why don't you??

[plague]

No it's not. A dump truck driver can easily be transferred over into road truck driving.

again, nonsense.
road drivers earn about 1/2 what the guys in the mines do.
plus with an oversupply in the market why would any wages increase due to demand for drivers.So does the govt now subsidise wages? awesome, more middle class welfare. making renewables even more costly. exactly what you want.

its a lovely concept in theory but it just wont work. and this is where the argument always falls down, and why getting idiots like teenagers and bartenders to be your spokespeople is foolish.
its equivalent to just telling people "she'll be right mate" and no one wants to hear that about their livelihood.
no one.

[Skirt Boy]

again, nonsense.
road drivers earn about 1/2 what the guys in the mines do.
plus with an oversupply in the market why would any wages increase due to demand for drivers.So does the govt now subsidise wages? awesome, more middle class welfare. making renewables even more costly. exactly what you want.

its a lovely concept in theory but it just wont work. and this is where the argument always falls down, and why getting idiots like teenagers and bartenders to be your spokespeople is foolish.
its equivalent to just telling people "she'll be right mate" and no one wants to hear that about their livelihood.
no one.

Mining has always been boom and bust and people need to realise that. It's kinda stupid living the life of a person earning 120k a year when in 5 years you will be earning the average wage like the rest of society.

[plague]

Mining has always been boom and bust and people need to realise that. It's kinda stupid living the life of a person earning 120k a year when in 5 years you will be earning the average wage like the rest of society.

Theres enough coal to last 100 years under current rates. Why would something think the industry has only 5 years left?

even as 'we' move away from it, they are still gonna export it to other countries.
you guys love telling other people how to spend their money. if hes on $120k and has a house and a couple of kids you'd be shocked to learn how little that kind of cheque covers.

why you want everyone else to be miserable just because y'all are?

[Skirt Boy]

Theres enough coal to last 100 years under current rates. Why would something think the industry has only 5 years left?



Climate change...........................

[Jetmaster]

Climate change...........................

I could add so much more but Messrs Memba and Plague are doing my talking for me.

[plague]

Climate change...........................

i mean, they set off not one but two ****ing nukes about 75 years ago and we all still out here going "you know what, those things are bad we should get rid of them".

legit, China Japan and India are building coal fired stations at a cracking pace. you think they are planning on shutting them down in 5, 10 or 20 years?


nah. we gonna be selling that black death for many many years to come.

oh wait, sorry forgot AOC said the world will end in 12 anyway. no need to stress, lets just party and hope the Jets get another Prem between now and Doomsday.

[plague]

I could add so much more but Messrs Memba and Plague are doing my talking for me.

please dont group me and the Member together.
the only thing we agree on is the winner in the Messi v Ronaldo debate (and we are both right).


hes on his own island for the rest of it.

[Frodo]

Theres enough coal to last 100 years under current rates. Why would something think the industry has only 5 years left?

even as 'we' move away from it, they are still gonna export it to other countries.
you guys love telling other people how to spend their money. if hes on $120k and has a house and a couple of kids you'd be shocked to learn how little that kind of cheque covers.

why you want everyone else to be miserable just because y'all are?

No one wants to build new coal fired power plants other than a select few nations, so once the current plants shut down who's gonna buy it? The boom is done. Investors are staying away from it, it's only the government trying to keep the dream going cause they don't want to the stress of revolutionising our economy without it.

I used to work for a fabrication shop that probably made 80% of its money working on mining equipment but within 5 years us, and another 10 or so similar shops, either shut down or had to diversify. The coal beast is shrinking faster than you can imagine.


And the guy on $120k a year knows full well that he's not going to have that cheque long, if he doesn't get skilled up to find a new job then that's on him/her. Plus they will have decent welfare to fall back on in SBs world so don't worry too much.

[MFKS]

But that's simply not true. You don't get paid based on how much work you do, which is what you are trying to claim is how the system works.

Nowadays the main factors that determine what you get paid are outside of your control. (Country of birth, parents wealth, timing, availability of opportunities, etc).


And again, you talk about handouts but fail to recognise things like the $498 billion bailout from the 2008 recession. How does that compare to welfare payments??

Capitalism is a terrible system that only benefits a certain few. Unfortunately though, we don't have an alternative. So we are all screwed.

No I ain't claiming that you get paid according to how much work you do

I am saying that you are successful when you work hard. That is a common theme in life for successful people

They actually work hard

Messi don't just rock up and kick a ball about on the weekend.
Tiger don't just stroll onto the first tee and shoot in the 60s

These guys work their arses off away from competition to be as successful as they are

Talent only gets them so far

Same as all that other crap you offered up
It only gets you so far

It what you do that determines whether you are successful or not

[Frodo]

No I ain't claiming that you get paid according to how much work you do

I am saying that you are successful when you work hard. That is a common theme in life for successful people

They actually work hard

Messi don't just rock up and kick a ball about on the weekend.
Tiger don't just stroll onto the first tee and shoot in the 60s

These guys work their arses off away from competition to be as successful as they are

Talent only gets them so far

Same as all that other crap you offered up
It only gets you so far

It what you do that determines whether you are successful or not

So working hard = success?

Cause that's an absolute load of BS. You show me 1 example of it and I can show a million other than don't.

There is absolutely no proof that working hard will guarantee you success, there's also little proof that successful people have worked hard. Most of them are just lucky enough to be born into the right family.

[MFKS]

Despite being a communist sympathiser I do actually believe that capitalism works. But it needs to be highly regulated.

Some things that would bring fairness to the system.

1. Minimum wage based around the idea that a single person can afford a basic apartment, transportation and basic entertainment.

2. Rental controls based on the idea that rent is capped to 30% of a person's income. Rich people will still rent in rich suburbs, poor in poor suburbs. But what it does do is equalise rental costs to income.

3. Unemployed rate set at a level as a fixed percentage of the minimum wage.

4. Social Welfare insurance levy of 1% for workers and 5% for corporate entities. Setup similar to superannuation. After 12 months of continuous employment a person can receive up to 75% of the income of the last job and this decreases over time to the base unemployment rate.

5. Remove the medicare safety net and abolish gap payments and scrap private health insurance. Dental and optical to be fully covered by Medicare.

6. 100% free education. Entry to university to be purely by merit with allowances for disadvantage.

7. Remove tax concessions for entities with a gross revenue of a certain amount adjusted to inflation.

8. Introduce taxation to religious organisations.

9. Government to take over all charitable services with such services funded by the taxation of religion and the removal of aid grants to organisations who provide such services.

10. Baby/Education bonus. A lump sum is deposited into a special account similar to superannuation up on the birth of a child. Provided the child finishes school and gains qualifications (degree, trade) or full time employment for 5 years after finishing education. They have their house deposit.

11. Complete phasing out of fossil fuels for electricity generation and the cessation of export. National company established to mine, manufacture and sell renewable energy.

12. Renewal of the rail network.

13. Limit the size of trucks

14. Disability pension and aged pension to be set at the rate of minimum wage

15. Introduce proportional representation into parliament and double the size of members in the house of reps.

I could sit here and tear most of this socialist dream apart piece by piece

But let's just focus on 6 and 15

Why exactly are you suggesting initiatives that will institutionalise racism and sexism ??

Considering the left are all for Equal Opportunity and all that BS .....

Why exactly are you wanting to force weaker candidates into education opportunities over others who achieved better on merit and you do so based on their alleged victim status levels and secondly why do you wish to force quotas in parliament where you are trying to put token candidates in their based on their sex or race??
If they are good enough they get voted in the first place. There is a perfectly good reason why there is a small supply of women in parliament. The public does not vote based on whether the candidates have a vagina or not. They actually vote on who they think is the better candidate

Here is a giant problem with your stance you are actually trying to force ideas into practice that are sexist and racist in nature all the while failing to accept a merit based system

[MFKS]

So working hard = success?

Cause that's an absolute load of BS. You show me 1 example of it and I can show a million other than don't.

There is absolutely no proof that working hard will guarantee you success, there's also little proof that successful people have worked hard. Most of them are just lucky enough to be born into the right family.

There are only a few guarantees in life
Just being born into the right family isn't one.

Everyone has opportunities and challenges

You though seem to be focused on the rich as you seem to envy and be jealous of them

There is only one man on the planet that I am envious of and if you are that worried about what others have and have not then that says more about you and your failings as a human

[Skirt Boy]

And the guy on $120k a year knows full well that he's not going to have that cheque long, if he doesn't get skilled up to find a new job then that's on him/her. Plus they will have decent welfare to fall back on in SBs world so don't worry too much.

This here is why the country is going to the shitter. Plague picked out only the negative without realising the other changes that are related. IE rent caps, better welfare/unemployment support. My old next door neighbour voted for the LNP simply because of the FRanking Credits mess..........Thinking he was going to lose out even though he lived in Dept of Housing property and has never worked in his life due to Polio.


I could sit here and tear most of this socialist dream apart piece by piece

But let's just focus on 6 and 15

Why exactly are you suggesting initiatives that will institutionalise racism and sexism ??

Considering the left are all for Equal Opportunity and all that BS .....

Why exactly are you wanting to force weaker candidates into education opportunities over others who achieved better on merit and you do so based on their alleged victim status levels and secondly why do you wish to force quotas in parliament where you are trying to put token candidates in their based on their sex or race??
If they are good enough they get voted in the first place. There is a perfectly good reason why there is a small supply of women in parliament. The public does not vote based on whether the candidates have a vagina or not. They actually vote on who they think is the better candidate

Here is a giant problem with your stance you are actually trying to force ideas into practice that are sexist and racist in nature all the while failing to accept a merit based system

Racist or Sexist? Far from it. Barriers to education are significant for people from low socio-economic and Indigenous backgrounds. Recognising such people face a disadvantage is not being racist or sexist.

Proportional representation in parliament is not what you think it means. It means that if a political party gets 9% of the vote they get 9% of the members based on a party list elected by it's members. (what they do in Germany)

[Frodo]

There are only a few guarantees in life
Just being born into the right family isn't one.

Everyone has opportunities and challenges

You though seem to be focused on the rich as you seem to envy and be jealous of them

There is only one man on the planet that I am envious of and if you are that worried about what others have and have not then that says more about you and your failings as a human

Standard Member, I question your point and instead of proving yourself you just side step it and make a completely different incorrect statement.

You said success comes from hard work and I have more than enough proof to the contrary.

Also, I don't envy the successful, I'm just paying enough attention to know that the game is rigged for everyone. It's rigged against the poor, the lower-class and the middle-class. Current capitalism is the carrot on stick trick and we are all chasing down something we will never get.

[MFKS]

This here is why the country is going to the shitter. Plague picked out only the negative without realising the other changes that are related. IE rent caps, better welfare/unemployment support. My old next door neighbour voted for the LNP simply because of the FRanking Credits mess..........Thinking he was going to lose out even though he lived in Dept of Housing property and has never worked in his life due to Polio.



Racist or Sexist? Far from it. Barriers to education are significant for people from low socio-economic and Indigenous backgrounds. Recognising such people face a disadvantage is not being racist or sexist.

Proportional representation in parliament is not what you think it means. It means that if a political party gets 9% of the vote they get 9% of the members based on a party list elected by it's members. (what they do in Germany)

Recognising the barriers they face isn't racist or sexist??
But what is putting in place legislation that will punish people on merit??

So if some kid scrapes into the top 10% we are going to kick them out and put someone in who didn't achieve the same results and we will pick this person out based on either the vagina skin colour or some other obscure reason like their sexual preference??

That pretty ****ed up that you are advocating for racist and sexist policies yet don't see that what you are interested in seeing is racist and sexist in nature


Affirmative action policies in USA have been shown to actually victimise Asian immigrants. The same kids who bust their arses to study hard to get the grades. Yet the system punishes them to promote African American Latino and women not as worthy as them

[MFKS]

Standard Member, I question your point and instead of proving yourself you just side step it and make a completely different incorrect statement.

You said success comes from hard work and I have more than enough proof to the contrary.

Also, I don't envy the successful, I'm just paying enough attention to know that the game is rigged for everyone. It's rigged against the poor, the lower-class and the middle-class. Current capitalism is the carrot on stick trick and we are all chasing down something we will never get.
You do envy the successful
You support the concept of things being fair and balanced in life
You want the rich taxed more yet they are the ones already paying the bulk of taxes as it is

How about we have a flat rate of for argument's sake 35% tax for everyone
Whether that be the bloke working 10 hours a week or James Packer
We take 35% off everyone and stop victimising the successful ones to pay for the lazy

[Frodo]

You do envy the successful
You support the concept of things being fair and balanced in life
You want the rich taxed more yet they are the ones already paying the bulk of taxes as it is

How about we have a flat rate of for argument's sake 35% tax for everyone
Whether that be the bloke working 10 hours a week or James Packer
We take 35% off everyone and stop victimising the successful ones to pay for the lazy

You don't read good, do you? That's exactly what I proposed. A flat tax rate. You have been arguing against it.

The rich don't pay more, I already showed you that they pay less in proportion to their income and you got upset. A flat tax rate would solve that. Thank you for swinging around aimlessly only to come to the correct conclusion.

[MFKS]

You don't read good, do you? That's exactly what I proposed. A flat tax rate. You have been arguing against it.

The rich don't pay more, I already showed you that they pay less in proportion to their income and you got upset. A flat tax rate would solve that. Thank you for swinging around aimlessly only to come to the correct conclusion.

But we have a tax rate at the moment where the more you earn the more you are taxed

FFS ****s earning 20k don't pay a Zac to society

A flat rate is gonna punish them more than the better earners

[plague]

This here is why the country is going to the shitter. Plague picked out only the negative without realising the other changes that are related.

nah.im just doing them one at a time.

[plague]

Current capitalism is the carrot on stick trick and we are all chasing down something we will never get.

actually this is a great point and an interesting question.

what is it exactly that you want?

(no Arsenal related answers allowed. you must answer properly).

[plague]

It means that if a political party gets 9% of the vote they get 9% of the members based on a party list elected by it's members. (what they do in Germany)

yeah for sure this isnt a wrong argument, neither is first past the post per seat in Australia (**** preferences, **** those asshole 'king makers').
But America is the best example of this not being fair. if you govern for California and New York (and surrounding areas) you can neglect the rest of the country and maybe win. conversely if you only govern for 'the south' then you can also be king.

and if you know anything about America, its that you dont want anyone from 'the south' dictating policy.

[Skirt Boy]

nah.im just doing them one at a time.

But that is exactly what people like the Member and the boomers do.

The result is governments can't introduce wide ranging reforms that are really needed because the opposition and the idiots will focus on a particular issue that will look bad when really, when taken in context with other reforms is a really ****ing good idea.

[Skirt Boy]

yeah for sure this isnt a wrong argument, neither is first past the post per seat in Australia (**** preferences, **** those asshole 'king makers').
But America is the best example of this not being fair. if you govern for California and New York (and surrounding areas) you can neglect the rest of the country and maybe win. conversely if you only govern for 'the south' then you can also be king.

and if you know anything about America, its that you dont want anyone from 'the south' dictating policy.

Ideally you would have a mixed system. 150 as is the case now and 150 elected by proportional representation. Party discipline then becomes harder to maintain and marginal seats and the capitol cities would lose influence through pork barrelling.

[plague]

But that is exactly what people like the Member and the boomers do.

The result is governments can't introduce wide ranging reforms that are really needed because the opposition and the idiots will focus on a particular issue that will look bad when really, when taken in context with other reforms is a really ****ing good idea.

wait, you're somehow hopeful people wont vote due to self interest?

you've met humans before right?

[plague]

Ideally you would have a mixed system. 150 as is the case now and 150 elected by proportional representation. Party discipline then becomes harder to maintain and marginal seats and the capitol cities would lose influence through pork barrelling.

you realise that 'the independants' never vote on the merits of a bill. they vote on the outcomes that they can wrangle from a deal their power commands.
Xeonphon made an artform out of it. he wasnt there for 'you'. he was there for him. dont be the sucker that thinks otherwise.

Pauline Hansen is actually the most principled of all the pollies in that house at the moment and i think shes a raving bigot. but her bigotry seemingly cant be bought off like the rest.

[plague]

anyone who had 'Maccas' for being the front line for fighting racism in Australia please pass go and get your $200.

[MFKS]

But that is exactly what people like the Member and the boomers do.

The result is governments can't introduce wide ranging reforms that are really needed because the opposition and the idiots will focus on a particular issue that will look bad when really, when taken in context with other reforms is a really ****ing good idea.

Maybe because your ideas are flawed in concept

Free Education that means some ****s has to pay for it

We currently have a system in Oz where free education is available to those up to completion of high school

You want the ****ers getting further education to get it for free. Well currently they are paying for it. You think that someone else should pay for it for them. I think the current system is fair

You use it you pay for it
Why should I pay for your choices??

That is the problem with most of your ideas. They sound great on but when you go through them it means someone else is getting a bill just so someone else can get something for free

Next time I go out for dinner are you gonna come by and settle my bill??
Didn't think so.
Because that is what you are asking others to do so they can get the free health care transport education and whatever else you want

It is also why the deranged leftists fall in a hole when they try putting this out for voters
The young dumb and naive think that's great free shit
Anyone with half a brain who has had to take on some responsibility in the world sees straight through their BS and it gets nowhere

[Macca]

Maybe because your ideas are flawed in concept

Free Education that means some ****s has to pay for it

We currently have a system in Oz where free education is available to those up to completion of high school

You want the ****ers getting further education to get it for free. Well currently they are paying for it. You think that someone else should pay for it for them. I think the current system is fair

You use it you pay for it
Why should I pay for your choices??

That is the problem with most of your ideas. They sound great on but when you go through them it means someone else is getting a bill just so someone else can get something for free

Next time I go out for dinner are you gonna come by and settle my bill??
Didn't think so.
Because that is what you are asking others to do so they can get the free health care transport education and whatever else you want

It is also why the deranged leftists fall in a hole when they try putting this out for voters
The young dumb and naive think that's great free shit
Anyone with half a brain who has had to take on some responsibility in the world sees straight through their BS and it gets nowhere

The problem with putting it out with voters is the lies that have been peddled by the media to give people ownership of government spending, because it's "their" money because they pay taxes. When government spends money they're spending "their money" that they had to go work for. How dare you go spend my money on something I don't like?

The other crock is selling the notion that government financials and budgets are equivalent and comparable to household budgets, and that if government has debt, then that's bad and needs to be fixed asap, since everyone knows debt is bad.

[Skirt Boy]

Just honest mistakes yeah?

**** off. It's systemic. It may be small change to a single worker but overall you are talking huge money. Gaol the bastards.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/woolworths-to-cop-agm-spray-over-wage-scandal-after-more-underpayments-uncovered/49e9d29b-d89b-4f53-942b-33b44f661aee

[plague]

Just honest mistakes yeah?

**** off. It's systemic. It may be small change to a single worker but overall you are talking huge money. Gaol the bastards.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/woolworths-to-cop-agm-spray-over-wage-scandal-after-more-underpayments-uncovered/49e9d29b-d89b-4f53-942b-33b44f661aee

so a company self investigating, reporting and correcting (and senior management copping a financial hit personally) is 'systemic'.

if so they are the shittiest crooks ever as their attempt to "screw the werkers" affected less than 3% of their workforce.

your one example, of one company, who's error affected less than 3% of staff is not how 'systemic' works.


i totally agree that there are bastard bosses out there. id absolutely contend that intentional abuses of the law are significantly higher in the small business world rather than the evil multinationals you all seem to despise.


if you all wanna get a taste of what is involved, attached is the NSW retail award. Feel free to have a read and see if you can pinpoint where mistakes could be made. it only takes one payroll officer to get one amount wrong and by the time anyone checks it it could be across multiple staff over multiple years.

of course there have been several attempts to streamline to award system to try and make it easier to understand how much you have to pay your staff every week.
but ill let you read up on why it never gets looked at.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/872/general-retail-industry-award-ma000004-pay-guide.pdf.aspx

[Skirt Boy]

so a company self investigating, reporting and correcting (and senior management copping a financial hit personally) is 'systemic'.

if so they are the shittiest crooks ever as their attempt to "screw the werkers" affected less than 3% of their workforce.

your one example, of one company, who's error affected less than 3% of staff is not how 'systemic' works.



Dude they are only self investigating because other companies have been caught out. Don't think for a second they are being all honest and rosey and looking after the workers here. It was deliberate. It was criminal. All to keep the bottom line looking good.

A few smaller players get caught out and the big companies basically shat themselves.

[Skirt Boy]

if you all wanna get a taste of what is involved, attached is the NSW retail award. Feel free to have a read and see if you can pinpoint where mistakes could be made. it only takes one payroll officer to get one amount wrong and by the time anyone checks it it could be across multiple staff over multiple years.

of course there have been several attempts to streamline to award system to try and make it easier to understand how much you have to pay your staff every week.
but ill let you read up on why it never gets looked at.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/872/general-retail-industry-award-ma000004-pay-guide.pdf.aspx

As a student of law and as a small business owner working out the correct pay rates is not a hard thing to do.

Job category - payment rate - hours worked - overtime worked - weekend hours worked -..................****ing easy.

[plague]

It was deliberate. It was criminal.

you sure you want to say that? because i dont think you have any facts to back this up.
none at all.



“Woolworths , you've committed fraud and wage theft, and you need to be prosecuted,” said user Simon Rosenberg.

actually, you are in good company. A 'user' named.....oh who gives a **** who it is. anyway this dude said a thing on social media so the ****ing media reported it like it was someone who had something to do the issue. this is why Trump won.

oh and Simon has one of those teardrops in his handle. Simon is sad about something. Simon seems sad about everything.

dont be like Simon.

[Skirt Boy]

you sure you want to say that? because i dont think you have any facts to back this up.
none at all.

.

Even if they were honest mistakes. Being ignorant of the law or making mistakes does not stop a person from being held to account of a criminal matter.

You're approach is basically saying. "Sorry man. I didn't think the person would die when I swerved causing him to go off the road and into a tree................."

The only reason they are investigating themselves and being open about it, is to limit any possible criminal damages and civil lawsuits.

[plague]

As a student of law and as a small business owner working out the correct pay rates is not a hard thing to do.

Job category - payment rate - hours worked - overtime worked - weekend hours worked -..................****ing easy.


39 pages of awards across 201,000 workers and you think your 5 steps to a perfect payroll is gonna fly here?


while ever shit like this exists then people are gonna get it wrong.

Cold work allowance - 0°C and above $0.30 per hour while so employed
Cold work allowance - below 0°C $0.75 per hour while so employed


pulling out the "yeah i know its 39 pages but ive condensed it to 5 steps and im right" is some Member level self tell.

[plague]

Even if they were honest mistakes. Being ignorant of the law or making mistakes does not stop a person from being held to account of a criminal matter.

You're approach is basically saying. "Sorry man. I didn't think the person would die when I swerved causing him to go off the road and into a tree................."


nah.
if i killed someone through negligence then im sure criminal proceedings would follow.

if i underpay a staff member by accident then its not a criminal act.

you keep telling me the you're a law man, find me the law that says accidently underpaying someone is a crime.

[MFKS]

39 pages of awards across 201,000 workers and you think your 5 steps to a perfect payroll is gonna fly here?


while ever shit like this exists then people are gonna get it wrong.



pulling out the "yeah i know its 39 pages but ive condensed it to 5 steps and im right" is some Member level self tell.

I take offence to that

I could get it down to 3 steps

[plague]

I take offence to that

I could get it down to 3 steps

apologies all round.

(lets face it you wouldnt pay them anyway)

[Skirt Boy]

nah.
if i killed someone through negligence then im sure criminal proceedings would follow.

if i underpay a staff member by accident then its not a criminal act.

you keep telling me the you're a law man, find me the law that says accidently underpaying someone is a crime.

I really can't be ****ed going through the specific law but there has been plenty of cases going to court.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us/news-and-media-releases/2019-media-releases/december-2019/20191212-soma-kitchen-media-release

[MFKS]

I really can't be ****ed going through the specific law but there has been plenty of cases going to court.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us/news-and-media-releases/2019-media-releases/december-2019/20191212-soma-kitchen-media-release

So what exactly is the problem??

This is exactly why we have systems in place for checks and balances etc

Seems like a correction is being made and you not letting it go

[Skirt Boy]

So what exactly is the problem??

This is exactly why we have systems in place for checks and balances etc

Seems like a correction is being made and you not letting it go

Because business has been trying to get away with it. It's one thing to have a couple of small businesses being stung. Mistakes can happen. But it's been happening so frequently and at such a large scale that honest mistakes just don't cut it anymore.

[MFKS]

Because business has been trying to get away with it. It's one thing to have a couple of small businesses being stung. Mistakes can happen. But it's been happening so frequently and at such a large scale that honest mistakes just don't cut it anymore.

So your defining what is an intentional mistake based on what??

Because these could be honest mistakes after all

[plague]

I really can't be ****ed going through the specific law but there has been plenty of cases going to court.

https://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us/news-and-media-releases/2019-media-releases/december-2019/20191212-soma-kitchen-media-release

i mean, dude. this is exactly what im talking about. this is a small business intentionally screwing someone over then failing to comply with the regulatory bodies order to repay.
hence the criminal charges.

this example does not support your proclamation of systemic criminal behaviour in big business.

if anything this example makes big business look better because of the way they admit their stuff ups make good on their mistakes.

[Skirt Boy]

i mean, dude. this is exactly what im talking about. this is a small business intentionally screwing someone over then failing to comply with the regulatory bodies order to repay.
hence the criminal charges.

this example does not support your proclamation of systemic criminal behaviour in big business.

if anything this example makes big business look better because of the way they admit their stuff ups make good on their mistakes.


How much is Member paying you? You have basically gone from a card carrying ALP/CFMEU stooge to being pro-business............

[plague]

How much is Member paying you?


He cant afford me.

[pv4]

As a student of law and as a small business owner working out the correct pay rates is not a hard thing to do.

Job category - payment rate - hours worked - overtime worked - weekend hours worked -..................****ing easy.

My brief dealings with all of your five steps is somehow all five of them can be considered subjective, and all five get challenged regularly between employee & employer. Even if you think you nail any of the five, even the very first one gets disputed regularly, my experience is it's going to get challenged anyway. Not so easy, particularly when you're doing a plaguesey and off playing golf and letting others make these "subjective" decisions for you to cop the force of error of later.

[Skirt Boy]

My brief dealings with all of your five steps is somehow all five of them can be considered subjective, and all five get challenged regularly between employee & employer. Even if you think you nail any of the five, even the very first one gets disputed regularly, my experience is it's going to get challenged anyway. Not so easy, particularly when you're doing a plaguesey and off playing golf and letting others make these "subjective" decisions for you to cop the force of error of later.

Don't give performance bonuses, targets and budgets to people who have to make the decisions on what pay scale an employee falls under.

In this big drive to cut costs. Business are giving people certain responsibilities that they simply shouldn't have. If a floor manager has a budget on staff and a bonus if they meet a target what are they going to do?

What they should be doing is going right.

Employee: Skirt Boy

Occupation Level 2.......Duties: XYZ...............Hours 38

No deviation from those duties. If there is a deviation properly record it.

Funnily enough what I'm suggesting would make shit easier and this problem wouldn't exist.

[MFKS]

Don't give performance bonuses, targets and budgets to people who have to make the decisions on what pay scale an employee falls under.

In this big drive to cut costs. Business are giving people certain responsibilities that they simply shouldn't have. If a floor manager has a budget on staff and a bonus if they meet a target what are they going to do?

What they should be doing is going right.

Employee: Skirt Boy

Occupation Level 2.......Duties: XYZ...............Hours 38

No deviation from those duties. If there is a deviation properly record it.

Funnily enough what I'm suggesting would make shit easier and this problem wouldn't exist.

But not every job is black and white
Conditions can change during shifts

The problem your bitching about is human nature
We are greedy muther****ers you ain't gonna ever legislate that out of existence


Other thing that is pertinent with all you commy leftist types is that you love adding more and more rules more and more government more and more control on everything

Why exactly is that??

[plague]

Employee: Skirt Boy

Occupation Level 2.......Duties: XYZ...............Hours 38

No deviation from those duties. If there is a deviation properly record it.


until you are short staffed and Skirt Boy gets asked to go in the deep freeze to get more cold cuts. dont forget to check the thermometer on the way through to know if its under or over zero degrees. All of a sudden Skirt Boy is in charge of more staff so how many hours did he do it for and was it after 12pm on a saturday
how does your rate change there?
you say 'properly record it'. Im not sure if youre aware of the systems in place in all these big retail operations but guess what, they aint foolproof.
of course we can add 'more' managers in place to get the timesheets right but lets make sure those managers are in charge of the right amount of staff and dont need to go in the cool room etc etc etc. Maybe we need another level of management to make sure the managers are getting their timesheets



but of course no one wants to pay more for their groceries in order to fund all these payroll increases do they.

[The Dunster]

Dishonesty is something we learn not something we are born with. Very young children will grass themselves out everytime by telling the truth. But once they get to a certain age kids have learned how to lie / stretch the truth to benefit their situation.

Capitalism is also a learned system. It is not some natural force within us from the day we are born.

[plague]

Dishonesty is something we learn not something we are born with. Very young children will grass themselves out everytime by telling the truth. But once they get to a certain age kids have learned how to lie / stretch the truth to benefit their situation.

Capitalism is also a learned system. It is not some natural force within us from the day we are born.

but thats all behaviours.
the first things kids is cry if they dont get something they want. you leave that behaviour unchecked and all of a sudden you've got yourselves a greens voter.

[The Dunster]

i mean, dude. this is exactly what im talking about. this is a small business intentionally screwing someone over then failing to comply with the regulatory bodies order to repay.
hence the criminal charges.

this example does not support your proclamation of systemic criminal behaviour in big business.

if anything this example makes big business look better because of the way they admit their stuff ups make good on their mistakes.

The Fair Work commission is a joke. You won't find a single labour economist that supports it unless they are on the books of the corporations that endorse it.
The main issues with it are that the fines are too small to be a deterrent and that wages growth has pretty much stalled because of countervailing power in the awards process ultimately favouring business - especially larger ones and corporations.

In the period between 1946-1972 the countervailing power ran the other way and businesses were copping a very unfair deal. Although governments were also an employer of last resort and more than happy to accomodate closing any spending gap between actual and potential GDP with fiscal policy.

[Frodo]

Wow, this turned into some nonsense. Payscales are not hard to work out, underpaying someone involves effort more than stupidity or accident.

The list of acts by some of these businesses includes coercing migrant workers to repay franchisees back in cash as tax withheld and threatening deportation if they spoke up. (company was informed of act multiple times but failed to act until fair work raided offices), straight up wage theft where a huge companies just inform staff to underpays people on purpose for as long as possible until they are caught (Woolies) or they have CEO's giving out bonuses for creative ways to remove entitlements from Enterprise Agreements as well as forcing delegates to agree to lower wages by threat (Grill'd). None of them were accidents, they all got caught and now the workers will get a percentage of the money owed to them repaid and the company will laugh it off as a failed ploy.

That's 3 big name companies that took years to bring to justice. Imagine how many more are just smarter at getting away with it?

But yeah, keep blaming the little guy for wanting to be paid appropriately and feeling sorry for this huge companies with 100s payroll workers checking through payroll paperwork to make sure it "complies" with a fairly simple to understand set of regulations.

[Frodo]

but thats all behaviours.
the first things kids is cry if they dont get something they want. you leave that behaviour unchecked and all of a sudden you've got yourselves a greens voter.

Greens kids are shown a world map and taught how to share. Lib kids are the ones getting told they are perfect and deserve to be treated like princesses. They are the ones trashing KMart kid sections everytime mummy tells them they can only have 1 toy today.

[plague]

Greens kids are shown a world map and taught how to share. Lib kids are the ones getting told they are perfect and deserve to be treated like princesses. They are the ones trashing KMart kid sections everytime mummy tells them they can only have 1 toy today.

awww man, my comment was a little crack, because everytime i think of it this video pops in my head and reminds me how wonderful it is to not care so much about Trump, Boris or Climate Change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2qraZKD4hI

because if i ever get this 'into' it. you have my permission to shoot me.

[Frodo]

awww man, my comment was a little crack, because everytime i think of it this video pops in my head and reminds me how wonderful it is to not care so much about Trump, Boris or Climate Change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2qraZKD4hI

because if i ever get this 'into' it. you have my permission to shoot me.

If I ever get that into anything you can shoot me. Jeez.. Americans have some of the weirdest subspecies of humans ever.

Also I knew you were kidding, I just re-read mine tho and maybe that was too personal. I just remember seeing the kids throwing tantrums in shops when they don't get a new toy and thinking if I tried that shit my parents would have slapped me into oblivion and left me there to fend for myself.

[plague]

my parents would have slapped me into oblivion and left me there to fend for myself.

so you read my autobiography then.......

[plague]

Wow, this turned into some nonsense. Payscales are not hard to work out, underpaying someone involves effort more than stupidity or accident.

The list of acts by some of these businesses includes coercing migrant workers to repay franchisees back in cash as tax withheld and threatening deportation if they spoke up. (company was informed of act multiple times but failed to act until fair work raided offices), straight up wage theft where a huge companies just inform staff to underpays people on purpose for as long as possible until they are caught (Woolies) or they have CEO's giving out bonuses for creative ways to remove entitlements from Enterprise Agreements as well as forcing delegates to agree to lower wages by threat (Grill'd). None of them were accidents, they all got caught and now the workers will get a percentage of the money owed to them repaid and the company will laugh it off as a failed ploy.

That's 3 big name companies that took years to bring to justice. Imagine how many more are just smarter at getting away with it?

But yeah, keep blaming the little guy for wanting to be paid appropriately and feeling sorry for this huge companies with 100s payroll workers checking through payroll paperwork to make sure it "complies" with a fairly simple to understand set of regulations.

simple to work out yet needing 100's of payroll officers to enforce? So which is it?
the 3 examples are 3 completely different circumstances.
1st sounds like some illegal shit and id have the perpetrators fired into the sun on a rocket ASAP. no problems.
ill give Woolies the benefit of the doubt. regardless of what people on here think i can understand their side of the story. Sometimes the dog really does eat your homework.
The 3rd one is a case of a company exploiting a situation. not illegal activity. you guys need to point that distinction out because its important.
the screaming pollies can close that loophole tomorrow if they wanted. but dont hate the player, hate the game on that one.
if the Grill'd blokes are found to be doing something illegal, stick them in the rocket with example number 1.

Also, just as an aside, those Grill'd dudes seem like a couple of proper assholes given all their behind the scenes bitching at each other over the years. both richer than anyone needs to be but they are petty as all **** about who deserved more dap.
assholes.

also, every single worker in this country has the ability to check every single week if they are being paid correctly. its the law to make sure they have payslips. if they are worried they can check their award or seek help online in govt departments. if they are getting dudded, speak up because thats how these things get solved. if its a legit mistake like Woolies/Bunnings etc claim, then bad PR will cost them more than they are saving on wages.

[The Dunster]

On the other side of the coin you have Arthur T. Demoulas. If all employers were like him we wouldn't need a Fair Work commission, compulsory Superannuation, or indeed any workplace regulation.

[Skirt Boy]

simple to work out yet needing 100's of payroll officers to enforce? So which is it?
the 3 examples are 3 completely different circumstances.
1st sounds like some illegal shit and id have the perpetrators fired into the sun on a rocket ASAP. no problems.
ill give Woolies the benefit of the doubt. regardless of what people on here think i can understand their side of the story. Sometimes the dog really does eat your homework.
The 3rd one is a case of a company exploiting a situation. not illegal activity. you guys need to point that distinction out because its important.
the screaming pollies can close that loophole tomorrow if they wanted. but dont hate the player, hate the game on that one.
if the Grill'd blokes are found to be doing something illegal, stick them in the rocket with example number 1.

Also, just as an aside, those Grill'd dudes seem like a couple of proper assholes given all their behind the scenes bitching at each other over the years. both richer than anyone needs to be but they are petty as all **** about who deserved more dap.
assholes.

also, every single worker in this country has the ability to check every single week if they are being paid correctly. its the law to make sure they have payslips. if they are worried they can check their award or seek help online in govt departments. if they are getting dudded, speak up because thats how these things get solved. if its a legit mistake like Woolies/Bunnings etc claim, then bad PR will cost them more than they are saving on wages.

Believe it or not. Many of these problems only became an issue after the Liberals ****wits began their attacks on the union movement. Wages have stagnated because workers no longer have any bargaining power. There has been a rise in worksite deaths. People are working more hours............Most of the workforce is either casual or part time.............

[The Dunster]

Believe it or not. Many of these problems only became an issue after the Liberals ****wits began their attacks on the union movement. Wages have stagnated because workers no longer have any bargaining power. There has been a rise in worksite deaths. People are working more hours............Most of the workforce is either casual or part time.............

Hawk and Keating got the ball rolling with the Wages and Incomes Accord. That made a lot of workers question the value of belonging to a union and Howard and his successors ran with it from there.

For whatever reason Australians overwhelmingly support the LNP so I don't see any reason why they would want to change a winning formula.

The ALP and the Union movement is one of the great myths of Australian political history anyway.

Whitlam was absolutely hated by the Union leadership during his time and yet he's still perceived as the poster boy for the left.

Fraser who was Whitlams right-wing opponent would be too far left today for even the most left-wing of the Union Movement.

[Skirt Boy]

Hawk and Keating got the ball rolling with the Wages and Incomes Accord. That made a lot of workers question the value of belonging to a union and Howard and his successors ran with it from there.

For whatever reason Australians overwhelmingly support the LNP so I don't see any reason why they would want to change a winning formula.

The ALP and the Union movement is one of the great myths of Australian political history anyway.

Whitlam was absolutely hated by the Union leadership during his time and yet he's still perceived as the poster boy for the left.

Fraser who was Whitlams right-wing opponent would be too far left today for even the most left-wing of the Union Movement.

The accords were made in exchange for a better welfare system. Full medicare, superannuation. All goals of the union movement.