The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

[snake]

Sorry didn't mean you finding it, rather you reading or hearing about something where you've gone 'dang, that's some pretty compelling shit right there'.


Also:
more famous that Joey in Newy?

You could cure cancer and blokes at the pub would be like "YEAH BUT WOULD HE HAVE GONE BLIND SIDE TO ALBERT IN '97?".

they're finding a lot of other organics on mars, and some of the moons of jupiter/saturn that may suggest some form of biological activity. you need a lot of evidence to call this kind of stuff though. in lieu of actually getting samples of the microbes or whatever they may be, and demonstrating that they are not from here, you need to demonstrate that simple geologic processes and/or UV are unlikely make what you're seeing.

this is only in our neighbourhood, though. time will tell.

[GazFish35]

i cant wait for someone to ask a religion question at the member's forum.

[MFKS]

m8, if you could show me one scientist who is willing to say that science is complete, i'll show you a scientist who isn't getting funded anytime soon

of course it's not complete, you silly sausage.

So if science is not complete as you claim and the universe is a big place that all you scientists haven't scratched the surface with yet it is safe to say that some of your conventional theories that you believe are fact at this point in time are not exactly 100% concrete as there may be something out there undiscovered yet that you haven't taken into account??

As for your claims that your opinions are pretty mainstream I will point out the number in my religious denomination is estimated to be 1.2 billion people on this planet and being the largest religion I would also suggest we are quite mainstream

That's not taking into account the rest of the 1.2 million Christians in the various sects as well as those who support other well known religions like Judaism and Islam

All up religion is what you would call pretty mainstream

As for your question on sperm?? Can I borrow a calculator that goes to the power of 22. My phone calculator ain't cutting it. Will admit maths ain't my strong point and **** knows why you want me to answer it but not owning the calculator that big is leaving me a little high and dry

[snake]

As for your question on sperm?? Can I borrow a calculator that goes to the power of 22. My phone calculator ain't cutting it. Will admit maths ain't my strong point and **** knows why you want me to answer it but not owning the calculator that big is leaving me a little high and dry

use google calculator. or at least show the working.

happy to show you how you're views are wrong. till you try the calcs, you get nothing from me.

[MFKS]

322320709105 years approx.

[snake]

322320709105 years approx.

well done.

that number is about 200 times the age of the universe. at 85 million stars examined per day, you'd need 200 times the age of the universe to examine it all. basically, it'll never happen.

i'll answer your other stuff when i get home. in the mean-time, if you get the chance, try and predict the weaknesses i see in your reasoning, and attempt to strengthen your arguments.

[snake]

So if science is not complete as you claim and the universe is a big place that all you scientists haven't scratched the surface with yet it is safe to say that some of your conventional theories that you believe are fact at this point in time are not exactly 100% concrete as there may be something out there undiscovered yet that you haven't taken into account??

As for your claims that your opinions are pretty mainstream I will point out the number in my religious denomination is estimated to be 1.2 billion people on this planet and being the largest religion I would also suggest we are quite mainstream

That's not taking into account the rest of the 1.2 million Christians in the various sects as well as those who support other well known religions like Judaism and Islam

All up religion is what you would call pretty mainstream

As for your question on sperm?? Can I borrow a calculator that goes to the power of 22. My phone calculator ain't cutting it. Will admit maths ain't my strong point and **** knows why you want me to answer it but not owning the calculator that big is leaving me a little high and dry

ok, lets go.

firstly, the sperm calc was an attempt to get you how big the universe is. there are comfortably more stars in the observable universer than there has been sperm produced by all the humans in all of history, even at an astonishing rate of 85million per day. that's a pretty big number, right? why all those stars should be put there for me, considering most of them will never be seen as they're just too far away, and many of the galaxies have been able to see (for the last 20 years) with your hubbles etc, are actually redder than they actually are, since they're moving away from us very quickly, so we can't directly see them as they are, anyway. if god is nothing else, he's an over-elaborator.

also, every sperm us sacred. even the gimp ones.

citing the popularity of your religion as support for it's veracity is a logical fallacy. a simple example shows why. in galileo's time, everyone knew, based on the bible, that the earth was the centre o the universe. with his shiny new telescope, galileo observed 4 (i think??) moons orbiting jupiter. anything orbiting jupiter obviously wasn't orbiting earth, and so the catholics in the time developed a large amount of abrasive silicate deposits in vaginae.

it was literally 1 man and his evidence vs. the world. the evidence won out.

so, why's it ok for me to say my views are mainstream. simply, they are based on evidence and reasoned conjecture, not dogma.

basically, with our 10^22 stars, there's at least 10^14 planets/bodies suitable for life. we know from earths history, that as soon as she cooled to a level suitable level, microorganisms appeared. that suggests that the transformation from chemistry to biology isn't that difficult. we also have discovered in theast 30 years ago life living in environments previously thought impossible, like ultra-acidic pH 0 geothermal springs or near high pressure hydrothermal vents. so our own biosphere is only growing, which only grows my already large 10^14 number. weighing these large numbers up, if life only arose once (here), then we'd both agree we are pretty special, but disagree as to why.

so finally, you say because there us more to discover, some of our useful theories of today may be overthrown. that's true. i've already said my acceptance of a certain theory is conditional, and is liable to change based on potential new contradictory evidence. believe it or not, i'm not only ok with this, i wear it as a badge of honour! don't get too excited.though! that's not an opening for you. any new theory would have to explain the new contradictory evidence AND ALL THE EVUDENCE THE CURRENT THEORY READILY EXPLAINS. that basically means that it too, will be contradictory, with abrahamic creation.

tl;dr. there's no god, but nvm, snake still luvs u

[hawk]

i just saw Jesus having dinner with scientists #reallyconfused

[joel31]

tl;dr. there's no god, but nvm, snake still luvs u

Considering you said that you are open to new evidence don't you think you are bit close-minded by making this statement. You may see an Abrahamic god impossible but how can you say when you haven't seen the whole universe or what's outside of it (if there is an outside of it) and you aren't some kind of all-knowing being that there is conclusively no intelligent designer or creator

[plague]

ok, slightly off topic, but by all means continue with the God debate (its legit fascinating on all sides).
BUT.

Came across this photo today of the note left by the 2 american blokes that recently busted out of prison.


Now, the headline described this as a "racist" note.

Question for everyone: YES or NO, is this note "racist"?

[joel31]

A few philosophical questions for our all-knowing Snake
1. What is logic?
2. What is rationality? And how do you know yours is correct?
3. What is morality? And is it important? If so why / if not why not

[snake]

Considering you said that you are open to new evidence don't you think you are bit close-minded by making this statement. You may see an Abrahamic god impossible but how can you say when you haven't seen the whole universe or what's outside of it (if there is an outside of it) and you aren't some kind of all-knowing being that there is conclusively no intelligent designer or creator

lol. didn't i already cover this with you?

i should have said that our current understanding of the universe is wholly inconsistent with the hypothesis of an abrahamic god, rendering the probability of it's existence vanishingly small. but that's not so catchy. aren't i allowed just a little arristic.licence?

so, to recap from the past dozen or whatever pages. the bible - the only "evidence of yahweh - is horribly unreliable and of dubious authorship. either the authors transcribed
it wrong, yahweh's a mischievous conniving so-and-so, or it's all bullshit.

in lieu of any evidence, and in the presence of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, we reject the gos hypothesis.

and why would you care if there was a non-abrahamic god? as far as He/She/It's concerned, you're as bad as me

and if there's a deistic god, well, by definition it doesn't interfere with the universe, so who cares?

[snake]

A few philosophical questions for our all-knowing Snake
1. What is logic?
2. What is rationality? And how do you know yours is correct?
3. What is morality? And is it important? If so why / if not why not

1. consult a dictionary.
2. consult a dictionary. rational application if science is progressive and gets results. religion does neither.
3. other animals have morality, joel. it's not a uniquely human condition. why do christians think this is such a stumper for atheists? have a bit or research mate. you're young, use the time to do some learnin' before life bogs you down.

yep, morals are important. that's why i don't get mine from the bible. for instance, i'm not ok with getting a mate tie his son down and threaten to stab him, then yell out "lol jks" just before the poor child was about to be killed. that is not ok by me. see also some of premy's questions.

[Premy]

By your assumptions of a believer doing everything in the bible I should head to beach and part the seas, Spend my week at SD's walking on water and turning his pool to wine, should have taken a Slingshot to Middleby Muppet and Tinkler and should hang myself when I betray someone.

How did i miss this earlier.
In these references you use in the good book is there any suggested text were these acts be carried out?

That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

See the suggestive text there?

[Premy]

So I'll ask again, not necessarily by your hands but do you believe I should be put to death?

[MFKS]

How did i miss this earlier.
In these references you use in the good book is there any suggested text were these acts be carried out?

That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

See the suggestive text there?

Which death we talking about??

The first or the second death??

Maybe the passage refers to the second death???

[snake]

m8, don't play dumb, it says kill the non-believers.

oh, and good morning!

[MFKS]

m8, don't play dumb, it says kill the non-believers.

oh, and good morning!

Play dumb I am not playing dumb.

Not playing dumb at all. More a case of dealing with an attempt repeatedly to pointscore where he has no grounds

Lets have the passage in entirety and not one line from it to suit an agenda

2 Chronicles Chapter 15

1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:

2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

3 Now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law.

4 But when they in their trouble did turn unto the LORD God of Israel, and sought him, he was found of them.

5 And in those times there was no peace to him that went out, nor to him that came in, but great vexations were upon all the inhabitants of the countries.

6 And nation was destroyed of nation, and city of city: for God did vex them with all adversity.

7 Be ye strong therefore, and let not your hands be weak: for your work shall be rewarded.

8 And when Asa heard these words, and the prophecy of Oded the prophet, he took courage, and put away the abominable idols out of all the land of Judah and Benjamin, and out of the cities which he had taken from mount Ephraim, and renewed the altar of the LORD, that was before the porch of the LORD.

9 And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance, when they saw that the LORD his God was with him.

10 So they gathered themselves together at Jerusalem in the third month, in the fifteenth year of the reign of Asa.

11 And they offered unto the LORD the same time, of the spoil which they had brought, seven hundred oxen and seven thousand sheep.

12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

14 And they sware unto the LORD with a loud voice, and with shouting, and with trumpets, and with cornets.

15 And all Judah rejoiced at the oath: for they had sworn with all their heart, and sought him with their whole desire; and he was found of them: and the LORD gave them rest round about.

16 And also concerning Maachah the mother of Asa the king, he removed her from being queen, because she had made an idol in a grove: and Asa cut down her idol, and stamped it, and burnt it at the brook Kidron.

17 But the high places were not taken away out of Israel: nevertheless the heart of Asa was perfect all his days.

18 And he brought into the house of God the things that his father had dedicated, and that he himself had dedicated, silver, and gold, and vessels.

19 And there was no more war unto the five and thirtieth year of the reign of Asa.

So how does a passage in the bible where someone makes a oath to god to kill the non believers have any bearing on what the rest of the believers are to do??

There is absolutely nothing there saying it was a 2 way pact and god agreed to it.




I will just throw this one at you it is pretty clear cut and not really some ridiculous version where you are interpreting it into an agenda

Exodus 20:13
Thou shalt not kill.

Makes it pretty clear gods views on me being involved in killing doesn't it.


I do also find the verse Premy comes up with a bit laughable. I can see he is pushing an agenda and I will respect that but it does show through how little he knows of the bible. I would be curious to know how much he has had of involvement with it. Has he even read the thing in it's entirety would be a question I would love to know??

[MFKS]

lol. didn't i already cover this with you?

i should have said that our current understanding of the universe is wholly inconsistent with the hypothesis of an abrahamic god, rendering the probability of it's existence vanishingly small. but that's not so catchy. aren't i allowed just a little arristic.licence?

so, to recap from the past dozen or whatever pages. the bible - the only "evidence of yahweh - is horribly unreliable and of dubious authorship. either the authors transcribed
it wrong, yahweh's a mischievous conniving so-and-so, or it's all bullshit.

in lieu of any evidence, and in the presence of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, we reject the gos hypothesis.

and why would you care if there was a non-abrahamic god? as far as He/She/It's concerned, you're as bad as me

and if there's a deistic god, well, by definition it doesn't interfere with the universe, so who cares?

So your scientists current understanding of the universe is inconsistent with their being a god??Ok

The same scientists who due to the sheer size of the universe have barely scratched the surface of their craft as you used to defend them??


Being that their craft is not complete and science has to be proven to be consistently correct or is just a crack pot theory etc I struggle to understand the arrogance you have towards religion.

You can not prove god doesn't exist but you are arrogant enough in the way you convey your view to belittle the religious view when putting forward your view. Hey I have no drama that you believe not in god. Your call. Where does the arrogance though come from though??

It ain't like your science is complete enough to put you in a position where you can't be wrong


On another note couple of science questions for you.

1 With the Alleged Moon Landing your scientists had some footage of a USA flag being deployed on the moon/Hollywood Studio or wherever it was filmed.

Being that the moon has no or little atmosphere like here on earth how come the flag can be seen to blowing in the breeze in the footage that NASA offered up to the world to as their so called proof they were there??

2 Being the billions of $$$ wasted on medical research by your scientific colleagues.
When are we gonna see some actual cures of note??

The last thing you had any success of note on was Polio in the 1950's

What exactly do you guys spend the money on and does it concern you about their constant failures to deliver anything tangible like curing cancer Aids etc

[plague]

Member, spend 2 mins on the internetz to solve your flag flapping question (btw 'alleged moon landing' well played).
As for diseases AIDS already has a cure (cc:Magic Johnson).