The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

[plague]

To imply they are not trying hard enough only demonstrates a lack of understanding on your part.

People can apply for several thousand jobs that they are more than capable of being able to do and not get a single job offer.

Didn't go to the right school, wrong address, tits too small, ass too big / small, not confident enough, didn't smile enough, too quiet, not the right cultural fit... the list goes on.


I'd be willing to bet you would have given up long before many others had you been forced to walk in their shoes.

Not about not trying hard enough. I just believe that good things happen to good people. I'm not down on anybody. Quite the opposite, I'd fall over myself helping people get what they want, I like to see people happy.

I know you are overstating just a shade but in reality if someone is failing thousands of interviews then I'd say something is seriously wrong with thier approach and or expectations. I don't agree with the whole "well I studied 5 years to be an accountant therefore I will only work as an accountant I'm not prepared to do otherwise". Sometimes you gotta go a couple steps back to go a few forward. (Well according to Paula Abdul anyway).

Failing criteria like wrong school etc is all too common (and sad, and unfair, and infuriating) but I'd flip it around and ask why someone would want to be involved in an organisation so elitist? Wanting a job with people like that kind of exposes your own desires to be 'one of them', encouraging the behaviour.

Man, I was at that 'Newcastle club' with a friends dad once, the nonsense that group of wankers went on with was truly embarrassing. Why anyone would want to be involved in something like that astounds me.

I've never had a chance to 'give up'. I've never had a proper job interview in my life. I have zero bits of paper to tell everyone how good I am at anything in particular. I chose a path to go down living my life and not having qualifications or a leg up has made it difficult. But things are working out so I'm happy, and if they change then you reset and go again.

[The Dunster]

Not about not trying hard enough. I just believe that good things happen to good people. I'm not down on anybody. Quite the opposite, I'd fall over myself helping people get what they want, I like to see people happy.

I know you are overstating just a shade but in reality if someone is failing thousands of interviews then I'd say something is seriously wrong with thier approach and or expectations. I don't agree with the whole "well I studied 5 years to be an accountant therefore I will only work as an accountant I'm not prepared to do otherwise". Sometimes you gotta go a couple steps back to go a few forward. (Well according to Paula Abdul anyway).

Failing criteria like wrong school etc is all too common (and sad, and unfair, and infuriating) but I'd flip it around and ask why someone would want to be involved in an organisation so elitist? Wanting a job with people like that kind of exposes your own desires to be 'one of them', encouraging the behaviour.

Man, I was at that 'Newcastle club' with a friends dad once, the nonsense that group of wankers went on with was truly embarrassing. Why anyone would want to be involved in something like that astounds me.

I've never had a chance to 'give up'. I've never had a proper job interview in my life. I have zero bits of paper to tell everyone how good I am at anything in particular. I chose a path to go down living my life and not having qualifications or a leg up has made it difficult. But things are working out so I'm happy, and if they change then you reset and go again.

I became a university lecturer simply because I drank beers on a thursday with the right people. It had nothing to do with ability or hard work.
I got out of it for reasons similar to what you describe with the "Newcastle Club".
I now work in a low wage job and I am having the time of my life.

[plague]

Who's painting it that abbots doesn't agree with the referendum?

Indigenous leaders want to lead the discussion to come to conseus before the poll.

Abbott has said he doesn't want it to run that way and uses emotive language to paint the idea of indigenous leadership being given the opportunity to lead this important discussion as one that will lead to trouble.


Happy to take "Abbott" out of this whole discussion and my point still stands leadership in this country on important issues such as the treatment of our indigenous peoples is an embarrassment to this nation. KRudd's (sorry to name names) apology on behalf of the parliament and people excluded.

I'd say the ABC article was def painting it as Abbott derailing the process.

As I said about the Republic referendum, they did the same thing. The biggest criticism was that they did it all their own way and gave a half assed proposal to the public. Even though the polls said it was something we wanted it got voted down because it wasn't thorough enough.

I read the article as Abbott saying lets get it right so people will understand and 'want' to vote it in.

Whichever way you look at it the constitution is a 'white fella' document. It is rightly being changed to include all Australians but ask yourself how it will be perceived by the 'white fella population' if only one part of the population was in charge of it.

Sadly a fair bit of politics and compromise needs to be played here. At least one pollie is having an opinion on it, unlike the flour and water paste that comes out of Shortens mouth in that article. Pollies are so friggin scared of offending someone these days their public statements are generally so lame. If they captained our football teams it would take them half an hour to decide which way to run because they'd need to run it past the focus group first.


But serious question: in your mind exactly what did Rudds apology achieve? and do you think it has made things better/worse or the same for indigenous Australians?

[plague]

I became a university lecturer simply because I drank beers on a thursday with the right people. It had nothing to do with ability or hard work.
I got out of it for reasons similar to what you describe with the "Newcastle Club".
I now work in a low wage job and I am having the time of my life.

So that's my point. You went one way, you weren't happy, so you changed.
You won.

I just wish more people looked at that as the goal rather than status/money/adulation from people they don't like anyway.

[q-money]

easy to say when you live in a mansion

[stopper2]

oh man, I've numbered these so we can go through them one by one.
1. No vision? As opposed to the land of milk and honey we've been on track for for the past 115 years? You may come to find that Pollies are awesome at 'saying' they are gonna do something and actually going through with it. (i.e they are all full of shit).

2. OK dude, you may want to go back and look at who actually owns all this prime farming land that is getting sold off. You might find an overwhelming % is privately owned (i.e farming folks and private companies). They have decided to take the best offer they can for their assets. I can only imagine you would be sweet when you are selling your house that the Govt came in and made you take less (or not be allowed to sell it) despite someone offering you over the odds. Yep, I'm sure you'd be all like "yeah cool cool ill take the financial hit TO KEEP DEM DARN CHINESE OUT OF OUR SUBURBS GADAMNIT".

3. The jobs you speak of are generally in the manufacturing industry yeah? cool, well then go look at Your car, fridge, tv, phone, clothes etc etc etc. The jobs aren't going anywhere because of the govt, they are going OS because people like you and me buy shit cause its cheaper to get it from OS. you want tariffs back? protectionist policies. dear oh dear, lets just build Donald Trumps wall and be done with it. dang foreigners.

4. OK, so one dude out of a population of 24 odd million is not a good sample size. but anyway, can you define the term "better off". because people equate that with cash in hand at the end of every week. try factoring in health care, national security, your retirement, roads, environment, education etc etc etc. just cause its not in your hand every week doesn't mean its not being spent on you.


im ok with your generalisations but seriously dude, think a bit more about the way the world works before spouting nonsense like this. to act like none of this isn't our fault is naive.

Gee mate, you went to all that trouble to come up with that right wing Murdoch rubbish!!!
Like I said a person high up in a Management role has a low opinion of this Abbott Government but you seem to know better

[Buddha]

Out of both Abbott and Bull Shitten, i'd rather none of them. I fear for the future under either, Shorten has no balls to come up with his own Policies and looks like a startled deer in front of the Cameras.

That being said as soon as they asked me to jump id ask them how high

Loss/Loss situation

[plague]

Gee mate, you went to all that trouble to come up with that right wing Murdoch rubbish!!!
Like I said a person high up in a Management role has a low opinion of this Abbott Government but you seem to know better

hey, good for you. the way you copied and pasted one of the Members posts yet somehow got the mirror image to reflect the other side.

thats a talent.

well in.

serious though i do hope you survive the next 18 months before the Abbott govt gets turfed.

[plague]

and seeing as though I'm unfamiliar with the 'Murdoch right wing rubbish' you speak of maybe you can go back and explain your original point.

(oh, and YOUR thoughts please, not the musings of your manager mate).

[snake]

I became a university lecturer simply because I drank beers on a thursday with the right people. It had nothing to do with ability or hard work.

what was the situation like back then? now, you're up against wunderkids with h-index of a billion and a zillion publications and 10 book chapters by age 28. no chance competing against that level of game :'(

[MFKS]

Indigenous leaders want to lead the discussion.
Abbott is the one using "indigenous-only" discussions.

And who out of the two groups might be most likely to not trust the other?

If they wish to keep differentiating themselves we will never get anywhere.

They are as Australian as you or me.

High time they accepted that they are Australian and we can all move on and forward.

This constant bringing up of the past achieves little but more division

To me the ball is in the court of the Aboriginal community to instigate change.
They for some reason feel the need to constantly pass it to the government to sort this situation out.

Change will not come until they are prepared to accept some realities they ignore

[The Dunster]

If they wish to keep differentiating themselves we will never get anywhere.

They are as Australian as you or me.

High time they accepted that they are Australian and we can all move on and forward.

This constant bringing up of the past achieves little but more division

To me the ball is in the court of the Aboriginal community to instigate change.
They for some reason feel the need to constantly pass it to the government to sort this situation out.

Change will not come until they are prepared to accept some realities they ignore

When a very small percentage of Aboriginals were accused of crimes against children entire communities were shut down before any due process was entered into. The end result being that absolutely no charges were ever laid against a single person.

In the case of the Catholic Church the government and powers that be did not place a lockdown on all members of the catholic church for similar crimes by a small percentage of the church.

It's hardly a level playing field.

[The Dunster]

So that's my point. You went one way, you weren't happy, so you changed.
You won.

I just wish more people looked at that as the goal rather than status/money/adulation from people they don't like anyway.

I was lucky the dice fell in my favour. A lot of people have no such luck. Some people have little education, no family or network of friends.. and so on. Some people can do it on their own but a lot of people simply can't and our current society rather than help them wants to lay the boot into them and accept no responsibility for the plight of others less fortunate.

I know you are overstating just a shade but in reality if someone is failing thousands of interviews then I'd say something is seriously wrong with thier approach and or expectations. I don't agree with the whole "well I studied 5 years to be an accountant therefore I will only work as an accountant I'm not prepared to do otherwise". Sometimes you gotta go a couple steps back to go a few forward. (Well according to Paula Abdul anyway).

The evidence does not support your theory. Once someone with a degree accepts a shit job they tend to be behind the eight-ball from then on.
If someone has a shit job to start with then does a degree they can move forward a lot easier.

However, go to the right school and know the right people and you can get work as an intern at the RBA and places of that ilk when people with 1st class honours degrees in economics or accounting won't even get an interview let alone an internship.

So to say people need to go a couple of steps back is simply avoiding the real problem.

The labour market is rampantly discriminative and productivity, skill, hard work.. and so on mean sweet **** all.

[plague]

Once someone with a degree accepts a shit job they tend to be behind the eight-ball from then on.

The labour market is rampantly discriminative and productivity, skill, hard work.. and so on mean sweet **** all.

See, the real problem I have is the use of the term 'shit job', as if it's 'below' some people to work jobs their fancy bits of paper tell them they don't deserve.

These are the same people that look down their nose at Gerry Harvey the door to door vacuum salesman but would grovel at the feet of Gerry Harvey the billionaire even though Harvey is the same bloke doing the same job.

I have zero ****ing pity for those people and tend to find them the most miserable because they somehow feel they deserve more.

And if hard work skill and productivity mean nowt then I must be the luckiest son of a bitch alive and not even realise.

[plague]

And HOW DARE you question Paula Abdul!!!!!

[The Dunster]

See, the real problem I have is the use of the term 'shit job', as if it's 'below' some people to work jobs their fancy bits of paper tell them they don't deserve.

These are the same people that look down their nose at Gerry Harvey the door to door vacuum salesman but would grovel at the feet of Gerry Harvey the billionaire even though Harvey is the same bloke doing the same job.

I have zero ****ing pity for those people and tend to find them the most miserable because they somehow feel they deserve more.

And if hard work skill and productivity mean nowt then I must be the luckiest son of a bitch alive and not even realise.

You don't have a clue.

Unemployment and underemployment are due to insufficient aggregate demand.
It has nothing to do with people being snobbish about the types of jobs they accept.
The problem is that HR types flag anyone that takes a lesser job as either being inferior or indeed lazy and not wanting to progress.
That's why the job is shit. Not because one form of emplyment is better or worse in my eyes.
Often it is better to be unemployed than tarnish your reputation [in the eyes of HR types]
I retired over twelve years ago from academia. If I wanted to go back I could very easily do so.
However, were it to be known I had worked in lesser emplyments nobody would touch me with a bargepole.
I'd be better off saying I been on holidays for over a decade.
The other problem is that a lot of people are forced to obtain degrees to gain emplyoment that doesn't require a degree.
Alternatively, a lot of people hold offices they don't have the correct training for but are gifted the role due to little more than breeding.
I look down at Gerry Harvey not because he sold vaccums I do it because he's a hypocrite. The seeling vaccums is something to be proud of
On one hand he wants people to buy Australian and on the other he's in Bed with Italian / Chinese manufacturers and lobbying the government to allow him to bring in foreign labour that he can pay less than award conditions would otherwise allow.
If Harvey is your hero you have set the bar very low indeed.
For the record I don't have anytime for people with masters degrees unless they did so after obtaining first class honours in a relevant degree.
With respect to PhD's I know what it's like and have a lot of respect for anyone that's has done the grind even if I disagree with them.
There is nothing more rigorous, mentally and or emotionally taxing than completing your doctorate.
Those that do it and keep a marriage and family together are miracle workers. It ain't easy like you seem to assume.

[plague]

You don't have a clue.

Unemployment and underemployment are due to insufficient aggregate demand.
It has nothing to do with people being snobbish about the types of jobs they accept.
The problem is that HR types flag anyone that takes a lesser job as either being inferior or indeed lazy and not wanting to progress.
That's why the job is shit. Not because one form of emplyment is better or worse in my eyes.
Often it is better to be unemployed than tarnish your reputation [in the eyes of HR types]
I retired over twelve years ago from academia. If I wanted to go back I could very easily do so.
However, were it to be known I had worked in lesser emplyments nobody would touch me with a bargepole.
I'd be better off saying I been on holidays for over a decade.
The other problem is that a lot of people are forced to obtain degrees to gain emplyoment that doesn't require a degree.
Alternatively, a lot of people hold offices they don't have the correct training for but are gifted the role due to little more than breeding.
I look down at Gerry Harvey not because he sold vaccums I do it because he's a hypocrite. The seeling vaccums is something to be proud of
On one hand he wants people to buy Australian and on the other he's in Bed with Italian / Chinese manufacturers and lobbying the government to allow him to bring in foreign labour that he can pay less than award conditions would otherwise allow.
If Harvey is your hero you have set the bar very low indeed.
For the record I don't have anytime for people with masters degrees unless they did so after obtaining first class honours in a relevant degree.
With respect to PhD's I know what it's like and have a lot of respect for anyone that's has done the grind even if I disagree with them.
There is nothing more rigorous, mentally and or emotionally taxing than completing your doctorate.
Those that do it and keep a marriage and family together are miracle workers. It ain't easy like you seem to assume.

Well all I can say is thank **** I don't live in your world.

and if 'not having a clue' has got me this far, then heaven help the world if I ever get one.

[The Dunster]

Well all I can say is thank **** I don't live in your world.

and if 'not having a clue' has got me this far, then heaven help the world if I ever get one.

The sad thing is we are going to end up with a massive skills shortage because people simply won't want to take a punt on education / training unless they are going to be gifted a position before they even start a degree. Even TAFE training now that they are pricing it up yet winding the quality down is bcoming less of an option for many.

For the gregarious types it won't matter so much as they will be able to talk their way up the ladder. For the quiet, reserved and shy types like myself and many others who rely on results to seperate us from the crowd I'd say the future is bleak to say the least.

If I was a twenty something these days I'd be shitting myself about the future. Fortunately, I had a lot of help along the way - help which these days doesn't appear to exist anymore.

Nothing is more true than ignorance being bliss.

[Blackmac79]

Gosh damn Dunster. I can't say I disagree with you, but as I am going for a position shortly based on nothing but my own skill, knowledge and hard work you have got me all depressed.

[The Dunster]

Gosh damn Dunster. I can't say I disagree with you, but as I am going for a position shortly based on nothing but my own skill, knowledge and hard work you have got me all depressed.

my motivational skills are piss poor even on my best day. Sorry about that.