The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

[steve136]

lol, no wonder the jets are fkd. The leftard mentality on here still making lgbti the major issue which a flick of a pen could fix btw.

NRA, guns, employment, poverty, organised crime, DV, effective world leadership just might need an intiatial overhaul but what would I know. Ill just get the striped paint im sure your brushes are ready.

This is the interesting thing about the reality Trump tried to portray in America - America is safer than it's ever been. Crime rates are at historical lows. What is he talking about? What does all the "Make America Safe Again" mean? When Obama was campaigning for his second term, Romney said that he could bring unemployment below 6% if he won...and that was considered a huge promise. Guess what? Obama brought it down to 4.9%.

This dystopic vision that Trump painted of America is far from reality - America is as great as its ever been.

The emotional right-wingers of the world don't like that though, because they need people to vote out of fear rather than based in fact and logic.

[plague]

This dystopic vision that Trump painted of America is far from reality - America is as great as its ever been.


Couple of points on this:
1. You are correct, the American economy, under the usual popular metrics is ticking along ok, and Obama should be praised for that. But the argument is he 'spent' his way out of it with someone elses money and has no plan to reduce the debt that he incurred along the way.
Amazingly, through the campaign Obama didnt get enough credit for his handling of the economy, and neither Trump nor Clinton ever really focused on specific economic plans. To be fair though the question wasn't really asked of them and the public didnt 'seem' to make it an issue either. Everyone had their heads in the sands and were all cool cool with it.

2. Trump wants American business to shift manufacturing plants from Mexico back to America (he called out the auto industry mostly). The idea seems to be that if the US Govt is going to subsidise these industries then they will need to give something back. I think thats a pretty noble way of doing it. It also then puts pressure on Mexico and maybe it brings them to the table about their involvement in illegal immigration (the whole 'wall' deal). His mindset (and most business people) is that "if im paying for it, i want something back". Career pollies have no problem spending everyone elses money, at least Trump puts a 'value' on Government help.

3. One thing Americans are still angry about is the after effects of the GFC. Back then Bush and Obama used taxpayers money to bail out all these reckless banks but they never ever held anyone from these organisations accountable for their actions. In fact, it was widely reported that they used the bailout money to give themselves bonuses and absolutely took the piss.
Americans put that squarely on Obama and the way Trump linked in Hillary to all of that behaviour was a brilliant tactic. It was greed and corruption at its absolute worse, and the politicians stood around and let it happen. Average Joe can't fathom it, and i think it made a real impact with voters.

[plague]

One more point on Trump.
Trump is not a creation of pissed off rednecks, or white america, or drunken frat boys.
Trump was created BY America. Trump is about as American as it gets. He is the poster boy for the land of opportunity. His business acumen (whatever you think of it) was governed by the rules of Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama. He is popular because Western society lauds people like him. He's a Kardashian, he's a rock star, he's a movie star. He's not a real person, but he is continually held up as what America is all about.

Where were the academics, the professors, the thinkers and the leaders during this campaign? No one cared what they thought. We cared what LeBron thought, or Springsteen, or Beyonce. Why? Because they are popular and somehow society holds them up as arbiters of taste and decency. Why the hell is anyone out there caring what Jay-Z thinks of Trumps view of women? Well apparently lots of people do, and i think thats pretty sad.

After the election one of the most spoken about reactions was Miley Cyrus crying into her phone. Miley freaking Cyrus is now our go-to political commentator?America man, thats what made Trump.

Im not even kidding when i say that the Kanye West 2020 campaign has a really frigging good shot of getting up.

[The Dunster]

One more point on Trump.
Trump is not a creation of pissed off rednecks, or white america, or drunken frat boys.
Trump was created BY America. Trump is about as American as it gets. He is the poster boy for the land of opportunity. His business acumen (whatever you think of it) was governed by the rules of Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama. He is popular because Western society lauds people like him. He's a Kardashian, he's a rock star, he's a movie star. He's not a real person, but he is continually held up as what America is all about.

Where were the academics, the professors, the thinkers and the leaders during this campaign? No one cared what they thought. We cared what LeBron thought, or Springsteen, or Beyonce. Why? Because they are popular and somehow society holds them up as arbiters of taste and decency. Why the hell is anyone out there caring what Jay-Z thinks of Trumps view of women? Well apparently lots of people do, and i think thats pretty sad.

After the election one of the most spoken about reactions was Miley Cyrus crying into her phone. Miley freaking Cyrus is now our go-to political commentator?America man, thats what made Trump.

Im not even kidding when i say that the Kanye West 2020 campaign has a really frigging good shot of getting up.

It's pretty funny though isn't it.

All you need to do is be born into a rich family and take over the family business when your parents no longer want to run it.
I can't understand why all Americans don't just take over their parents corporations and continue making billions.

The so called American Dream is just that - a dream. The reality is that the number of rags to riches stories are so few that winning the lottery is more likely for most people.
I mean at the very least you get a lottery winner every week in every state, throughout the globe. We'd be lucky to see a rags to riches story at anywhere near that rate - not too mention those who have lost everything chasing the impossible dream.

You only need to see how many arse clowns have a Facebook account to know just how ridiculously doomed the planet has become.

I'm just glad Adolf Hitler isn't around today because give that Khunt a facebook account and he'd find enough followers to rule the world.

[hawk]

frat boys lol. The republicans were voted in by women as well, terrible news. They really didnt want Trump but he is the current leader of the party they wanted in power.

Might be soon to be impeached so Pence can lead

[The Dunster]

Couple of points on this:
1. You are correct, the American economy, under the usual popular metrics is ticking along ok, and Obama should be praised for that. But the argument is he 'spent' his way out of it with someone elses money and has no plan to reduce the debt that he incurred along the way.
Amazingly, through the campaign Obama didnt get enough credit for his handling of the economy, and neither Trump nor Clinton ever really focused on specific economic plans. To be fair though the question wasn't really asked of them and the public didnt 'seem' to make it an issue either. Everyone had their heads in the sands and were all cool cool with it.

2. Trump wants American business to shift manufacturing plants from Mexico back to America (he called out the auto industry mostly). The idea seems to be that if the US Govt is going to subsidise these industries then they will need to give something back. I think thats a pretty noble way of doing it. It also then puts pressure on Mexico and maybe it brings them to the table about their involvement in illegal immigration (the whole 'wall' deal). His mindset (and most business people) is that "if im paying for it, i want something back". Career pollies have no problem spending everyone elses money, at least Trump puts a 'value' on Government help.

3. One thing Americans are still angry about is the after effects of the GFC. Back then Bush and Obama used taxpayers money to bail out all these reckless banks but they never ever held anyone from these organisations accountable for their actions. In fact, it was widely reported that they used the bailout money to give themselves bonuses and absolutely took the piss.
Americans put that squarely on Obama and the way Trump linked in Hillary to all of that behaviour was a brilliant tactic. It was greed and corruption at its absolute worse, and the politicians stood around and let it happen. Average Joe can't fathom it, and i think it made a real impact with voters.

1. Wrong. Tax payers do not fund a cent of government spending. it's not been that way since Nixon closed the discount window in 1971.
2. Yes. Fender the guitar manufacturer are a prime example.
3. Yes and no. Tax payers didn't fund a thing - but as you imply it's the idea that they think they have which causes all the problems. However, those very same people that benefited from the collapse are also Trumps backers - so bit of a catch 22 really. Mind you this shit's been happening since 1971 but is slowly starting to change as people are waking up - though I say again very slowly.

It's almost impossible to convince peopple that taxes don't / can't fund government spending - but once people do start to realise, the days of the leisure classes will well and truly be numbered. Unfortunately I won't see it in my life time unless I live to be 100 or more.

Then you see a video like this and realise that we can all be better people it's just that the puppet masters have us chasing rainbows and material wealth rather than looking at whats important.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wfbY3i4FY0

[Jetmaster]

Interesting view from someone on the left if you haven't seen it before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

I like the crux of what he is saying though some would be offended.

[The Dunster]

Interesting view from someone on the left if you haven't seen it before.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

I like the crux of what he is saying though some would be offended.

Brilliant video - and 100% correct.

[plague]

i think this is the video that explains it a bit better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs

[plague]

Then you see a video like this and realise that we can all be better people it's just that the puppet masters have us chasing rainbows and material wealth rather than looking at whats important.



Yeah well i just went out today and brought a dope ass TV with money i earned from working and im so excited im crying its an awesome tv.
also, Plague Jnr and I (along with Mrs Plague) eat dinner together at least 3 times a week (work commitments prevent it being more).
I asked him the question that was posed in your video and he replied "Tim Cahill and Justin Bieber".
I can only assume this is because Timmy and the Beebs wouldn't make the little bugger do his homework.

[The Dunster]

Yeah well i just went out today and brought a dope ass TV with money i earned from working and im so excited im crying its an awesome tv.
also, Plague Jnr and I (along with Mrs Plague) eat dinner together at least 3 times a week (work commitments prevent it being more).
I asked him the question that was posed in your video and he replied "Tim Cahill and Justin Bieber".
I can only assume this is because Timmy and the Beebs wouldn't make the little bugger do his homework.

LG OLED I hope ?

And I'm disappointed Jnr didn't say Griffo.

[plague]

LG OLED I hope ?

And I'm disappointed Jnr didn't say Griffo.

Good guess on the TV. It's a life changer.

Even Plague Jnr realises he isn't worthy of getting a seat at Griffs table.

[boz-monaut]

USA v Mexico game today

https://i.redd.it/99v40ihai3xx.jpg

[The Dunster]

Good guess on the TV. It's a life changer.

My Mrs thinks that anyone who doesn't own a 65" 4k OLED TV is a Communist.

We bought ours back in March 2016. It still amazes me how good shows look on it. [Especially 4k Netflix].

[steve136]

Trump picks Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff. Because nothing will "drain the swamp" and stick it to establishment politics like the Chairman of the RNC :rof:

[plague]

Trump picks Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff. Because nothing will "drain the swamp" and stick it to establishment politics like the Chairman of the RNC :rof:

or its the theory behind cyber security companies employing hackers to test their software.

if anyone is gonna know where all the bodies are buried, its gonna be the guy ordering the executions.

besides, he might just drain the Democrat side first........

[steve136]

or its the theory behind cyber security companies employing hackers to test their software.

if anyone is gonna know where all the bodies are buried, its gonna be the guy ordering the executions.

besides, he might just drain the Democrat side first........

Good point, although I doubt it. It signals to me that Trump is taking a more conventional, conservative path - Priebus is best pals with Paul Ryan too. Perhaps draining the swamp and filling it with different swamp water?

His supporters are blowing up right now - their "straight talker" duped them about being anti-establishment and has signalled a backdown on Obamacare already. Personally, I think these developments might be good things for the future of the country.

[plague]

Good point, although I doubt it. It signals to me that Trump is taking a more conventional, conservative path - Priebus is best pals with Paul Ryan too. Perhaps draining the swamp and filling it with different swamp water?

His supporters are blowing up right now - their "straight talker" duped them about being anti-establishment and has signalled a backdown on Obamacare already. Personally, I think these developments might be good things for the future of the country.

couldn't agree with this post more.

the fact that all the senior republicans are now kissing his ass (the Bush's, Kasich, Romney) means they are all shitting themselves. If he's smart he'll use it as leverage to get some changes, but yeah he's going to have to give some ground as well. Not a bad thing that he's going to be measured about stuff.

Im still begging for chaos though.

[Macca]

1. Wrong. Tax payers do not fund a cent of government spending. it's not been that way since Nixon closed the discount window in 1971.


Quick google brought me to this
https://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/how-are-we-paying-for-it/

"The $27.5bn Government component of the NBN is funded by debt, through the issuing of Australian Government Bonds. That is, the Federal Government offers our AAA-rated bonds to investors, at an interest rate of about 4% (depending on the term).

The NBN however, will provide a return of about 7%. This means that (once the network is operational), the NBN will begin repaying those bonds at a higher rate than what Government is paying on the debt. By 2034, the entire Government investment (including the interest) will have been repaid by the users of the network, leaving the Government owning a valuable asset (the NBN network) and no associated debt."

Is this basically what you're saying with government spending and tax? If so, where does the tax money go to, and a possibly related question; how is the spending that doesn't create revenue generating assets funded? Or is the point that if you use a big enough frame of reference that all of their spending will create revenue some way or another

[The Dunster]

Quick google brought me to this
https://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/how-are-we-paying-for-it/

"The $27.5bn Government component of the NBN is funded by debt, through the issuing of Australian Government Bonds. That is, the Federal Government offers our AAA-rated bonds to investors, at an interest rate of about 4% (depending on the term).

The NBN however, will provide a return of about 7%. This means that (once the network is operational), the NBN will begin repaying those bonds at a higher rate than what Government is paying on the debt. By 2034, the entire Government investment (including the interest) will have been repaid by the users of the network, leaving the Government owning a valuable asset (the NBN network) and no associated debt."

Is this basically what you're saying with government spending and tax? If so, where does the tax money go to, and a possibly related question; how is the spending that doesn't create revenue generating assets funded? Or is the point that if you use a big enough frame of reference that all of their spending will create revenue some way or another

When you pay your taxes. One account is debited and other is credited. And the money is then destroyed.
There is no tin shed in Canberra full of money. The so called Future Fund - is a very sick joke upon the general public that serves no purpose other than to line the pockets of bond traders and the like [but that's another story].

With respect to government bonds. They are only a debt instrument in undergraduate economics text books. Everywhere else they are a tool to maintain the Reserve banks interest rate target.
The real purpose of a government bond [and I'll include repos and so on as well] is to reduce the liquidity of the exchange settlement accounts of member banks [the ones we use] with the RBA.
Therefore, rather than a debt instrument a bond is a tool used to maintain a positive interest rate. [there are lots of interest rates - I'll make it simple and assume one]
When governments spend the exchange settlement accounts become more liquid as money / deposits increase.
That places downward pressure on the interest rate because supply is greater than demand.
To restore their target rate of interest the RBA will want to reduce liquidity and they do this by removing funds from the exchange settlement accounts.
To do this they offer the banks with excess balances and interest bearing alternative to money -namely a bond.
The banks accept this because they get a better return.
money from the banks exchange settlement account is exchanged for a bond.
RBA maintains it's target interest rate, banks get a certain return - and everyone involved is happy.

In times of war when governments go mental spending money they don't sell bonds to fund spending. They sell them to mop up the excess reserves in the banking system to stop the cash rate from hitting 0%

With respect to the future value of the NBN I don't think anyone would be able to determine it's value by 2034 other than by accounting methods which don't take into account technological change and so on.

Without going in to too much detail a government like Australia has no budget constraints in terms of its own money - Because - it is the monopoly issuer of $AUS, and it makes $AUS the only acceptable method of payment for Australians to extinguish their tax liabilities.

Hence, the Australian Government cannot have debt in terms of it's own money. in fact they can buy any good or service that is available in Australian Dollars. The only limit to their spending in Australian dollars are environmental or when the economy reaches full capacity [ and that's never ever going to happen].

The only reason government would choose to fund a project by a private partnership would be to line the pockets of their corporate bond trading mates.
And the punchline is that the only way the private sector can hold the excess balances required to make the purchase in the first place is if the government previously deficit spent the money into their accounts.
It's the only way because all transactions between private sector agents must always sum to zero because debits = credits.
Hence if government always spent less than they collected in revenues then the non-government sector would in aggregate have no savings.

I'm sure this will be misread by many and it's only a simplification but hopefully it might give a general idea.

[Macca]

I think I got the gist of it. The government can "print money" and spend it however it pleases, but in doing so increases the amount in circulation which would .. I want to say devalue it but you've said it will decrease interest rates - I suppose they are related. To counter this it pulls money back out of the NG sector by trading bonds for currency, in order to keep interest rates at a desirable level.

Isn't this a temporary measure though? That money will go back into the economy once the bond is completed, leaving us back at square one but a few years down the track. Is the "out" here the money sink of tax which simply removes money from the economy completely, as you said?

Secondly, I think I need a bit more info on the environmental limiting factors; because as it reads now, it makes no sense to me why there are even debated budgets and concerns about how to fun infrastructure projects, if the government can afford anything it wants by just issuing more money. Obviously I'm likely taking the simplified explanation too far, when it seems that they have the means to create money and the tool (bonds) to control the backlash of excess.

[The Dunster]

I'll call your paragraphs 1, 2, and 3.

1. Government spending usually involves a debit and an offsetting credit entry onto a computer screen. The idea that a government prints money to spend is another undergraduate text book myth. Sure the RBA via a contractor print money but it's more to do with replacement, and in this day and age is a very small part of the Money supply. The government can increase the money base or spend without the need to print any new currency / notes. The value of money is very closely linked to movements in commodity prices and not so much with interest rates. Sure interest rates have some bearing - but commodity prices tend to be the main influence.

2. Yes it is temporary - but the RBA will always actively meet it's target interest rate and as such they will increase or decrease liquidity within the ESA's by selling or buying interest bearing alternatives to money [bonds]. So the transactions between the RBA and member banks are continuous. In a fully employed economy [people and resources] inflationary pressures would be of a major concern but capital markets are so efficient these days it's not really an issue. Take Japan for example they have been running deficits for over 20 years at many times what the US and Australia have as a percentage of GDP - yet inflation is low and interest rates are near enough to zero.

3. Why do people debate the Bible or the Quaran - theres nothing empirical at least to even debate - government spending and the ideological perspectives behind it is much the same - a matter of faith, rather than something based on hard evidence ?
The limiting factors are the goods and services available to buy in Australian dollars, the stock and supply resources, the effects of depleting non-renewables to future generations, and the impact upon the biosphere of how we use these resources.... and so on. It's not about what can we afford it's about what is available to purchase.

The reason government make such a big deal about what they can afford to spend is because the Banks and Bond traders essentially own them. Banks want governments to be in surplus so that households can be in deficit. Because when households are in deficit they need to obtain credit / loans. The more in loans a bank holds the better off they are... and so on. Banks are also interested in low interest rates as well because if the interest rate is lower than the return / dividends on their shares then people will tend to purchase banking shares rather than make deposits. Share price goes up and so on.....

Bond traders like low interest rates as well because as the interest rate falls the value of a bond increases.

If you look at households these days you can note that a good share of their income is going to the banking industry in one form or another. Prior to 1971 working at a bank was a pretty piss weak job because the pay was poor and the job itself was boring. Once deregulation hit, banks and finance companies started developing all sorts of instruments and lobbying governments. Before anyone realized what was happening they had taken over - pretty much all government policy now is targeted at improving the balance sheets of Finance and banking companies.

From changes to Super Annuation rules with respect to properties which increased house prices - which essentially forced people to borrow more money and gave the banks / finance companies a larger slice of the pie. To compulsory superannuation.... to private health insurance rebates.....to privatising public utilities... and so on... to massive government bailouts when household incomes were reduced to the point whereby they could no longer provide enough blood for the parasitic financial types to feed on.

Fiscal policy used to be about closing the gap between actual and potential GDP to maintain full employment, taxes were used to maintain price stability.. and so on.

If you haven't already seen it watch the Movie "The Big Short" it's not 100% accurate but for a movie it gives a very good summary of how the Finance sector dictate government ideology and the consequences.

[Macca]

1. Yeah I meant printing money metaphorically as you said, thus the ""

2. Yep I came to that conclusion as well that they could achieve a nominal interest rate at any point with those transactions. I wasn't as clear on what happens down the line after multiple instances of government spending where they increase the money base. Is there a money sink that will decrease the money base? Or is the fully employed economy you mention the key, as without this an increased money base can simply be spread wider [across more people] to "soak it up" as such.

3. Fair enough, I didn't realise you meant environmental in a literal sense.

If that's the case its a pretty ****ed up situation, besides the small scale of screwing over the little guy, presumably forcing government surplus also hurts the economic growth of the country as well. Anything for a buck though I spose. Aren't they going to have plenty of market regardless of government surplus or deficit? Our deficit is at least purported at being at troublesome levels at the moment (doubtful), but I would guess that household debt would be at pretty high levels historically. Where's the missing link there, the 1% of private sector in huge surplus?

Thanks for your responses, loving the thought provoking reading. I will give that movie a watch

[The Dunster]

The top 0.1% are the ones with a massive surplus. The next 0.9% are slowly but surely being targeted by the 0.1% at the top.
For the rest it's about fighting over crumbs now I guess. Very hard for anyone these days to make a lot of coin without some sort of government subsidy / kick back. It can be done, but it's very difficult. Not everyone is born with an entrepreneurial mind and even if they were they couldn't all be successful if governments chose to ration spending.

The internet is offering a lot of opportunity for many, but those doors are being shut rather quickly as well through censorship, buyouts and so on.

If we could bring Adam Smith and Karl Marx forward in time both of them would be saying what the hell happened to Capitalism because whatever this shit is now it was nothing either of them ever discussed or predicted.

[The Dunster]

RIP Fidel Castro. He loved a Rolex as much as the next communist.
That said, he embarrassed the crap out of the USA and for that the Americans will be crapping on about how nasty / evil he was. When you look at the poverty sweeping though the USA , the racism, the violence..and so on the Americans really don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to looking after your own. What probably hurt the Cuban people most was the US embargo more so than the actions of Castro. If the US truly cared about the plight of the Cuban people they would have never placed such horrific sanctions on them.
Cubans have as good if not better life expectancy than US citizens due to having more GP's per capita - the Americans need to get their own house in order first.


https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Cv-0TBEhWVE/SEaLjSle4XI/AAAAAAAABUU/BBWLIXcuTO0/s800/C1.jpg

[plague]

President-elect Trump already getting shit done.

[plague]

I mean Hitler built some lovely roads too but yanno, murderous bastard and all that.

[hawk]

I mean Hitler built some lovely roads too but yanno, murderous bastard and all that.

He created the best docos though

Meanwhile....Researchers may have 'found' many of China's 30 million missing girls
http://www.smh.com.au/world/researchers-may-have-found-many-of-chinas-30-million-missing-girls-20161130-gt1aro.html

oops, there they are or could be a coverup

[steve136]

If any of the current allegations against Trump are true, they make Watergate look like a speeding ticket.

Except for Golden Shower Gate. That would just rattle some evangelicals in the south that voted for him.

[plague]

If any of the current allegations against Trump are true, they make Watergate look like a speeding ticket.

as opposed to all the other shit he got (deservedly) flung at him during the election?
c'mon man, people just got to realise that he won because he was (seemingly) less of a scumbag than the other one. like it or not 'murica is gonna get its 4 years of Trump no matter what.

Open up and take yer medicine.


Also, Obama has behaved like a complete bitch on his way out the door. Reading back it didnt 'seem' like any former Presidents from either side acted this poorly.

I guess they all end up getting remembered fondly with hindsight. Barry O will prob be back on the campaign trail with his missus soon enough anyway.

[steve136]

as opposed to all the other shit he got (deservedly) flung at him during the election?
c'mon man, people just got to realise that he won because he was (seemingly) less of a scumbag than the other one. like it or not 'murica is gonna get its 4 years of Trump no matter what.

Open up and take yer medicine.


Also, Obama has behaved like a complete bitch on his way out the door. Reading back it didnt 'seem' like any former Presidents from either side acted this poorly.

I guess they all end up getting remembered fondly with hindsight. Barry O will prob be back on the campaign trail with his missus soon enough anyway.

Well firstly, if you wish to watch a grown man behave like a complete an utter twat make your way over to Donald J Trump's twitter feed. It's a miracle the man knows enough words to even get close to 140 characters, but his all caps lock rants are truly something to behold. I mean, he's accused by several intelligence agencies of colluding with Russia during his campaign, and his first defence is to tweet -

"Russia just said the unverified report paid for by political opponents is "A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FABRICATION, UTTER NONSENSE." Very unfair!"

It's also interesting to note how much his story has changed recently. As of today he has "NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!". A slight change from a few years back when Russians "make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets... a lot of money pouring in from Russia."

The U.S's intelligence indicates that Russia was behind the hacking of the DNC. Trump, who has long expressed admiration for Putin has his doubts. You don't think that perhaps the president-elect siding with Russia against his own countries' interest and intelligence is a slight threat to national security?

I don't like many of Obama's policies, but from all I've seen he's been a standup guy throughout the last two months. Most presidents/president elects meet just once, but Obama has met with Trump several times, apparently explaining to him exactly what the President does and how government agencies and offices work.

[plague]

Well firstly, if you wish to watch a grown man behave like a complete an utter twat make your way over to Donald J Trump's twitter feed. It's a miracle the man knows enough words to even get close to 140 characters, but his all caps lock rants are truly something to behold. I mean, he's accused by several intelligence agencies of colluding with Russia during his campaign, and his first defence is to tweet -

"Russia just said the unverified report paid for by political opponents is "A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FABRICATION, UTTER NONSENSE." Very unfair!"

It's also interesting to note how much his story has changed recently. As of today he has "NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!". A slight change from a few years back when Russians "make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets... a lot of money pouring in from Russia."


I don't like many of Obama's policies, but from all I've seen he's been a standup guy throughout the last two months. Most presidents/president elects meet just once, but Obama has met with Trump several times, apparently explaining to him exactly what the President does and how government agencies and offices work.

The following quote appeared at the top of the page of the article in question:

A dossier, compiled by a person who has claimed to be a former British intelligence official, alleges Russia has compromising information on Trump. The allegations are unverified, and the report contains errors.

Now listen, if thats the way you want to consume your journalism, then thats on you.

What i am saying is that if you are going to believe this report, then you need to give the same credence to Obamas birth certificate, to Clintons peadophile ring, the dude in the car shot JFK, Hoover organised MLK's shooting and Ben Kennedy done 9/11.

Again, if thats your boogie then fine.



The U.S's intelligence indicates that Russia was behind the hacking of the DNC. Trump, who has long expressed admiration for Putin has his doubts. You don't think that perhaps the president-elect siding with Russia against his own countries' interest and intelligence is a slight threat to national security?

Now this one entertains me. So having a cordial relationship with another super power is a bad thing? Yep, sounds fair. You do realise that if he "talked tough" on Russia then everyone would be like "BHHUUUHHH TRUMP IS A COWBOY WAR MONGER MORON BHHHUUUHHH". you know, kind of like he's doing with Mexico and China.

Id bet good money that USA, Russia, China, Japan, Australia and Indonesia all engage in significant intelligence gathering by means that would be unethical. But (a Trump led) USA is now supposed to behave differently? Amazing that its an issue now, as opposed to ya know, 2 years ago.

and one more thing.

Well firstly, if you wish to watch a grown man behave like a complete an utter twat make your way over to Donald J Trump's twitter feed.
The twitter stuff. ummm, its Twitter. You go put your moral compass on it. Im good thanks. Hey man, at least his twitter feed is verified, which is better than all the other stuff you're tying your horse to.

[plague]

Actually Steve-O, been wondering this for a bit.
Do you believe in God?
Straight up question, yes or no.
What you got?

[The Dunster]

Trump is a bitch for the banks and for the mob. Each group owns a good chunk of him and he's scared shirtless of both -and who can blame him.
While he's carrying on like the ass-clown the focus is on him rather than the shit being forced into legislation by the lobby groups.
Trump knows the family business and managed to get one successful TV series going as well. Everything else he's tried has been an epic fail.
He's not too bright and all but he does have the most important trait for any business person - absolutely no conscience.
He's just the man the banksters need to further tighten their grip on the global financial system.
Hillary, for much the same reasons would have done equally well for them, as did Obama.

Unlike Hillary and Obama [both terms] Trump actually went to the polls with policies - he may never get them into action but at least he took something to the election.
At least he was willing to offer people a plan / alternative.

Obama won two elections without ever talking about policy - which probably makes him even more of a clown than Trump.

What does Trump need to do ? Create Jobs - Millions of them, and the sooner the better.
The private sector cannot create enough jobs so it's up to the governments to use their spending capacity and get things up and running.
THe more the government spends the lower the debt held by the private sector becomes.
When the private sectors debt decreases they gain confidence and start to spend again.
Business sees consumer confidence increasing and invest to take advantage of it.
Everybody wins - it's called capitalism - it's the best system - hope I get to see it wake up again from it's 45 year nap.
Most people on this site have never seen capitalism - they have really only witnessed a plutocracy.

[q-money]

even if it isn't true, how good is the story that he had a hooker soaked piss party on a bed that the obamas once slept in at the moscow ritz carlton ffs.

amazing.

[The Dunster]

even if it isn't true, how good is the story that he had a hooker soaked piss party on a bed that the obamas once slept in at the moscow ritz carlton ffs.

amazing.

Anyone that doesn't have hooker soaked piss parties is un-American.

Trump in.

For the record in my younger days I ****ed a few well cashed up chicks. Without doubt the more money they have the dirtier they are. Your poor socialist bitches are all dead roots. Get a chick with money and ya better padlock the fridge or plan on doing a cucumber / carrot run for the following nights dinner - due to their no holes vacant policy.

Hence, on the other side of the coin it wouldn't surprise me if Donny was into water sports other than polo and sailing.

[q-money]

:rof:

dunster after dark ffs

[Bon]

HAHAHAHA Dunster delivering the goods...
:brrr:

[q-money]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C17PiLrUQAAjQwF.jpg

[pv4]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C17PiLrUQAAjQwF.jpg

:rof: was this you or is this doing the rounds? Phenomenal.

Dunster, ward of Griffology :brrr:

[steve136]

The following quote appeared at the top of the page of the article in question:


Now listen, if thats the way you want to consume your journalism, then thats on you.

What i am saying is that if you are going to believe this report, then you need to give the same credence to Obamas birth certificate, to Clintons peadophile ring, the dude in the car shot JFK, Hoover organised MLK's shooting and Ben Kennedy done 9/11.

Again, if thats your boogie then fine.



Now this one entertains me. So having a cordial relationship with another super power is a bad thing? Yep, sounds fair. You do realise that if he "talked tough" on Russia then everyone would be like "BHHUUUHHH TRUMP IS A COWBOY WAR MONGER MORON BHHHUUUHHH". you know, kind of like he's doing with Mexico and China.

Id bet good money that USA, Russia, China, Japan, Australia and Indonesia all engage in significant intelligence gathering by means that would be unethical. But (a Trump led) USA is now supposed to behave differently? Amazing that its an issue now, as opposed to ya know, 2 years ago.

and one more thing.

The twitter stuff. ummm, its Twitter. You go put your moral compass on it. Im good thanks. Hey man, at least his twitter feed is verified, which is better than all the other stuff you're tying your horse to.

Ah the Obama birth certificate - aka the "very credible" phone call that Trump received. I am at this stage unsure of the validity of the report, but excuse me for giving more credence to documents published by US intelligence services than a magical late night anonymous chat with the Don. As for him siding with Russia over US intelligence - just listen to his press conference today. He clearly believes that his own countries intelligence is less reliably than a statement from Putin.

The huge irony is when Comey announced the FBI was "reopening" their investigation into Clinton right before the election, they were sitting on this information about Trump. Gotta love the director of the FBI playing party politics...

Yes, it is bad when a President puts more faith in foreign entities than in his own nation's systems and intelligence.

His tweet refuting "fake news" aka CNN, Washington Post, New York Times - provides a link to lifezette to defend himself...a known fake news site.

[steve136]

Actually Steve-O, been wondering this for a bit.
Do you believe in God?
Straight up question, yes or no.
What you got?1379

[WolfMan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C17PiLrUQAAjQwF.jpg

Superb.

And on the whole intelligence thing - misinformation is as crucial as the truth. American agencies are world class at this

[plague]

Ah the Obama birth certificate - aka the "very credible" phone call that Trump received. I am at this stage unsure of the validity of the report, but excuse me for giving more credence to documents published by US intelligence services than a magical late night anonymous chat with the Don.




The huge irony is when Comey announced the FBI was "reopening" their investigation into Clinton right before the election, they were sitting on this information about Trump. Gotta love the director of the FBI playing party politics...


hold up hold up, wayne a little minute here.

So are the federal agencies 'playing politics' or are they legit good and we can trust everything they say?

because you seem fine with the Trump stuff, but not cool with the Hillary stuff.

As I said, the Trump 'phone call from a guy' is the same as the Buzzfeed guy 'got a report'.

Believe one, believe them all i say.

for me, i hope the piss party story is true because it means Hawk is that much closer to being the PM.

[steve136]

hold up hold up, wayne a little minute here.

So are the federal agencies 'playing politics' or are they legit good and we can trust everything they say?

because you seem fine with the Trump stuff, but not cool with the Hillary stuff.

As I said, the Trump 'phone call from a guy' is the same as the Buzzfeed guy 'got a report'.

Believe one, believe them all i say.

for me, i hope the piss party story is true because it means Hawk is that much closer to being the PM.

I'd rather believe them all - I'm not a Hillary fan in the slightest. But to be fair, reporting documents that the CIA and M16 have compiled is slightly more reliable than an imaginary phone call. I'd rather the intelligence agencies, before an election, release/not release information they have about both candidates rather than just choosing to slander one side.

As for his piss party, I'm not that interested in his fetishes and it shouldn't really matter. What happens between him and Ivanka should stay behind closed doors.

[plague]

But to be fair, reporting documents that the CIA and M16 have compiled

yeah see im a bit confused about this.

i mena, the guy that reported it wasn't from those organisations, the bloke he got it off was from those organisations, and every further back is just here say isn't it?

im serious, thats how I've read it. Has anyone official stood behind it yet?

[steve136]

yeah see im a bit confused about this.

i mena, the guy that reported it wasn't from those organisations, the bloke he got it off was from those organisations, and every further back is just here say isn't it?

im serious, thats how I've read it. Has anyone official stood behind it yet?

My understanding from what I've read is this -

The document that everybody is talking about is a 35 page report that was instigated by a political opposition research firm, that was hired by both Republican candidates running against Trump and the Democratic Party. They came across some shady shit between Trump and Russia, with regards to business dealings. The firm hired former M16 agent Christopher Steele, who had numerous dealings in Russia and had sources there to investigate. Steele made his report (the 35 page document) and gave the information to the FBI. It was circulating in other areas in Washington too, and John McCain has also admitted he passed a copy of the information onto intelligence agencies.

Buzzfeed also somehow came across the document (not surprising...Buzzfeed is known to have some of the best investigative journalists around - the whole team got poached by CNN a year or so back) and decided to publish it with disclaimers acknowledging they don't know about its veracity. The CIA and FBI both are believed to think that at least some of the information in the report is true.

I think that's where it's at for now. Could be wrong though.

[parksey]

Steve is right there.

You can definitely question the morality and ethics of Buzzfeed for publishing the documents without being able to substantiate its veracity.

But it's seemingly been doing the rounds in Washington and looks to have some pretty solid backing.

Plague is just a Trump apologist.

[plague]

But it's seemingly been doing the rounds in Washington and looks to have some pretty solid backing.

Plague is just a Trump apologist.

so you guys are cool with Bill Shorten getting dragged out into the light over those persistent rape allegations?
Because i saw a whole bunch of media holding back on the grounds of lack of substance.

and alas there was nowt more to be said on the matter.

Apologist? im not sure on that, but i definitely am curious as to why we seem to apply our sensibilities liberally when it suits.

am happy to let you guys decide on my leanings. But theres no way in hell i would have voted for either of them in that last election.

I just think that America has been heading towards this day a long long time. Its time for them to take their medicine.

i cheer for chaos, and for anarchy.

[plague]

and decided to publish it with disclaimers acknowledging they don't know about its veracity.


i mean this is the only bit that im really railing against.
i think this type of reporting is really really scary.
again, i don't care if he has a piss party, but id like it to be a little more researched before being exposed.


also again, Gillard gives Clinton foundation $300m from Australia then 2 years later scores a plum job in the organisation.

how many of the same press doing cartwheels over trump spent 5 mins on this?

again, happy for journos to apply that blow torch, but you gotta keep going even when you don't like the smell its making.

[pv4]

i definitely am curious as to why we seem to apply our sensibilities liberally when it suits.

A fxxxing men.

^ The biggest thing I struggle with when in the leftist hive mind that is facebook

[pv4]

But for serious guys.. Meryl Streep said something at some thing and we should all jump aboard the hype train toot toot

[plague]

A fxxxing men.

^ The biggest thing I struggle with when in the leftist hive mind that is facebook

to be fair though the left thinks hashtags will fix the worlds problems and the right thinks God will.

either way theres a fair bit of shoulder shrugging when things don't go to plan.

[plague]

But for serious guys.. Meryl Streep said something at some thing and we should all jump aboard the hype train toot toot

Streep exercised her freedom of speech and im cool with that.
Trump exercised his and im cool with that.

serious though this line from Meryl was legit hilarious (emphasis mine):

Thank you, Hollywood Foreign Press. Just to pick up on what Hugh Laurie said: You and all of us in this room really belong to the most vilified segments in American society right now.

I mean, thats straight from the script to Team America isn't it?

[parksey]

so you guys are cool with Bill Shorten getting dragged out into the light over those persistent rape allegations?
Because i saw a whole bunch of media holding back on the grounds of lack of substance.

and alas there was nowt more to be said on the matter.

Apologist? im not sure on that, but i definitely am curious as to why we seem to apply our sensibilities liberally when it suits.

am happy to let you guys decide on my leanings. But theres no way in hell i would have voted for either of them in that last election.

I just think that America has been heading towards this day a long long time. Its time for them to take their medicine.

i cheer for chaos, and for anarchy.

A quick google search will provide you with several pieces detailing those Shorten allegations. Enjoy.

And yes, Trump is exactly what America deserves but far from what the world needs.

[pv4]

to be fair though the left thinks hashtags will fix the worlds problems and the right thinks God will.

either way theres a fair bit of shoulder shrugging when things don't go to plan.

Difference being I don't frequent a right hive mind :rof:

[pv4]

serious though this line from Meryl was legit hilarious (emphasis mine):


I mean, thats straight from the script to Team America isn't it?

I basically spat out my coffee when I heard that part :rof:

My favourite part was the camera panning to Vince Vaughan who was clearly not eating it all up like all the other people were :rof:

[steve136]

A bit more information on the author of the dossier Plague. Worth the read.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/intelligence-sources-vouch-credibility-donald-trump-russia-dossier-author?CMP=share_btn_tw

[q-money]

http://deadspin.com/the-spy-who-compiled-the-golden-showers-dossier-helped-1791144993?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebo ok&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

brought down your mate blatter too ay plague

[plague]

A quick google search will provide you with several pieces detailing those Shorten allegations. Enjoy.

you mean the mainstream press' articles overwhelmingly written from the side of Shorten?
Maybe you need to read up on who published those articles and how many statements they have from the alleged victim, or any statements or interviews with the three (alleged) witnesses or even any sort of detail as to what happened vs the articles you are referring to being about the charges being dropped.

and of you honestly think that the same level of airtime/column width was given to Shorten as was given to Trump then i can't do anything for you.

I mean, where was Australias version of Meryl Streep........(i guess thats Georgie Parker?) speaking out on behalf of womens rights and the white male privilege that enslaves our community?


now getting back to my point. I hated that the Shorten stuff was out there, because it was gossip and it was unfounded and it was investigated and it was dealt with.
I also hated the world breathlessly bemoaning the end of civilisation overtime Trump said anything.

You guys can yell at me all the same but there are certain people who attract way more scrutiny than others. I just find it weird as to why.

I like that we agree on this outcome being inevitable. A big part of me wants Trump to fail just to avoid other countries (mostly our own) falling into some sort of 'Australias got talent' style act to become PM.
Because we kind of went there with Rudd, and I def got sucked in and voted for it. and to a lesser extent Hanson is doing it but not on the same level.


Hopefully never again.

[plague]

A bit more information on the author of the dossier Plague. Worth the read.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/intelligence-sources-vouch-credibility-donald-trump-russia-dossier-author?CMP=share_btn_tw


ok cheers for this.

but.

aside from sending me a guardian article (thank Griff my hippy filter is working well) from what i can gather the article praised the author, and vouched for the author. but i couldn't find anywhere that the claims themselves are being verified, and thats my problem.

also, it seems at the time he himself wasn't on an official capacity within the (govt) intelligence community. He had his own private company. Again, this is one further level of separation from the actual claims.

but again, i don't knock your belief in the source, and i certainly can't/or won't claim they 'are' false, and i have no problem with you believing them. i don't, and i am sceptical on everything (hence my question on God).

but man, its a very very frail connection at best. id love to see something more concrete.

[plague]

http://deadspin.com/the-spy-who-compiled-the-golden-showers-dossier-helped-1791144993?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebo ok&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

brought down your mate blatter too ay plague


well there you have it.
conclusive proof that this 'spy' is a fraud.

as if Sepp was up to no good.

[hawk]

for me, i hope the piss party story is true because it means Hawk is that much closer to being the PM.

If this occurs McD Jones stadium will be getting beds, full strength beer and leg spread champers plus lucky door prizes for all who attend games.

[The Dunster]

ok cheers for this.

but.

aside from sending me a guardian article (thank Griff my hippy filter is working well) from what i can gather the article praised the author, and vouched for the author. but i couldn't find anywhere that the claims themselves are being verified, and thats my problem.

also, it seems at the time he himself wasn't on an official capacity within the (govt) intelligence community. He had his own private company. Again, this is one further level of separation from the actual claims.

but again, i don't knock your belief in the source, and i certainly can't/or won't claim they 'are' false, and i have no problem with you believing them. i don't, and i am sceptical on everything (hence my question on God).

but man, its a very very frail connection at best. id love to see something more concrete.

So what you are saying is that Trump has a prostate problem and is not capable of participating in water sports ?

Being serious though I'm going to be shattered if the stories are not true and will probably unsubscribe from Trumps twitter feed in protest.

Slightly different scenario but at what stage would you have assumed Harris, Saville, Cosby, and the bloke from Hey Dad were up to no good? I mean rumours were floating around about Harris, Saville, and Cosby for well over 30 years - and the Hey Day rumours well over 20 years.

Sometimes people are set up but other times where there is smoke there is fire. At what stage do people start accepting things ?

Certainly not after a court case - look at OJ. There were only 12 people in the world who thought he was innocent and five billion that thought otherwise.

[The Dunster]

How about Meryl Streep Versus the MMA fraternity ? She said it's not a part of the arts and the MMA have said that they are because they have the word art in their title.
More proof I guess that MMA fighters and commentators need to wear head gear.
Boxing has been referred to as the sweet science. So according to MMA logic MIT and Cal tech should have a boxing gym and indeed a boxing course within their sciences faculties.
Don't get me wrong I think Streep is a complete idiot - but MMA is a sport not an art just like boxing is a sport not a science. There may be scientific aspects of boxing and artistic aspects of MMA but that doesn't mean they are not ultimately still sports.
With respect to Streep calling what she does art I'd be more inclined to call it entertainment given that the sole purpose of what she does is to make money.
The great artists in most cases never make a dime in their lives and those that do often squander it or die under tragic circumstances often of their own doing.
Overall though, Streep has probably done more to promote MMA than she has to degrade it. Dana White would have shot a load when Streep made the comment.

[steve136]

ok cheers for this.

but.

aside from sending me a guardian article (thank Griff my hippy filter is working well) from what i can gather the article praised the author, and vouched for the author. but i couldn't find anywhere that the claims themselves are being verified, and thats my problem.

also, it seems at the time he himself wasn't on an official capacity within the (govt) intelligence community. He had his own private company. Again, this is one further level of separation from the actual claims.

but again, i don't knock your belief in the source, and i certainly can't/or won't claim they 'are' false, and i have no problem with you believing them. i don't, and i am sceptical on everything (hence my question on God).

but man, its a very very frail connection at best. id love to see something more concrete.

I see what you're saying. With regards to the connections between Trump and Russia that particularly concern me though, there appears to be more and more evidence mounting. This at the very least requires a congressional investigation to some kind of treason.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ba462d64c12d4692b8381cb7076d34ab/ap-source-trump-aide-frequent-contact-russia-envoy?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Politics (I agree the Guardian is hippy sh*t most of the time so I figured you'd appreciate AP a little more)

[plague]

Slightly different scenario but at what stage would you have assumed Harris, Saville, Cosby, and the bloke from Hey Dad were up to no good? I mean rumours were floating around about Harris, Saville, and Cosby for well over 30 years - and the Hey Day rumours well over 20 years.

Yes this is a great point.
I guess they only came to light when the 'victim' of the crime had the strength to speak out and the 'media' finally decided to believe them.

Again, with Trump, once someone directly connected goes on the record I guess it's going to just tread water.

Just on the Hey Dad one I'm still shocked that kid spoke out and never let up. Knowing full well her life was was going to get trashed and the justice system is ****ed ('sup OJ?).

[hawk]

Council should put a sunblock in if they cared about the people

http://www.videoadnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/block-out-sun.jpg

[plague]

It's finally official.
President Trump.
God bless America.

[plague]

this was Trump making his speech and riding his motorcade.
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--yIcIeW73--/ozb3vtzak4de0fofielt.gif
It was one of the best WWE promos I've ever seen.

[plague]

oh this photo of Bill checking out Ivanka and Melania turning up is the greatest thing I've ever seen.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/01/20/19/3C556B3C00000578-0-image-a-21_1484941829628.jpg

[steve136]

It's finally official.
President Trump.
God bless America.

A truly historic day for all those out there that struggle with basic sentence structure.

[steve136]

Don't know if there's ever been a more poetic moment than rain starting to pour down the second Drumpf starts speaking

[plague]

A truly historic day for all those out there that struggle with basic sentence structure.
Heheheh.
Keep missing the whole point of this you guys.
It's fantastic to watch.

[steve136]

Heheheh.
Keep missing the whole point of this you guys.
It's fantastic to watch.

Honestly, it hurts more that the man was still campaigning in his inauguration speech. Does he not understand he has to be President now and can't campaign anymore?

We will now witness a war on renewable energy, health insurance, equality and the middle class like never before (already reversed Obama's mortgage fee cuts...really helping the *little guy*). We will now witness an absolute abortion of a cabinet - who have displayed no expertise of their fields in their congressional hearings and only got their roles because their families donated hundreds of millions to the Republican Party. So much for draining the swamp. We will now witness an anti-intellectual movement on a scale we have never seen before. We will now witness conflicts of interest on a scale never before seen in the White House.

Oh but hey a big, expensive wall that sounds cool right and he said we'll win. Let's vote for this old, crazy corporatist...

Which part of the fact that millions more voted for Clinton than did for Trump is hard for conservatives to comprehend? In the free market place of ideas, he lost. Sure, politically that means nothing, but don't pretend like his ideas and concepts have won.

[plague]

Honestly, it hurts more that the man was still campaigning in his inauguration speech. Does he not understand he has to be President now and can't campaign anymore?

We will now witness a war on renewable energy, health insurance, equality and the middle class like never before (already reversed Obama's mortgage fee cuts...really helping the *little guy*). We will now witness an absolute abortion of a cabinet - who have displayed no expertise of their fields in their congressional hearings and only got their roles because their families donated hundreds of millions to the Republican Party. So much for draining the swamp. We will now witness an anti-intellectual movement on a scale we have never seen before. We will now witness conflicts of interest on a scale never before seen in the White House.

Oh but hey a big, expensive wall that sounds cool right and he said we'll win. Let's vote for this old, crazy corporatist...

Which part of the fact that millions more voted for Clinton than did for Trump is hard for conservatives to comprehend? In the free market place of ideas, he lost. Sure, politically that means nothing, but don't pretend like his ideas and concepts have won.

Oh man, straight from the Lena Dunham manifesto. Well played. Hope that Canadian real estate ain't too expensive.

Amazing that the utopia that the USA has been living in for the past 8 years has now been immediately destroyed,

Race riots, terror attacks, mass shootings, hate crimes, school shootings, budget blowouts, Yep, none of those the past 8 years but look out here they come and it's all Trumps fault.

Of course it is.

[steve136]

Oh man, straight from the Lena Dunham manifesto. Well played. Hope that Canadian real estate ain't too expensive.

Amazing that the utopia that the USA has been living in for the past 8 years has now been immediately destroyed,

Race riots, terror attacks, mass shootings, hate crimes, school shootings, budget blowouts, Yep, none of those the past 8 years but look out here they come and it's all Trumps fault.

Of course it is.

Ehh couldn't dislike Dunham more if I tried - a typical Hillary third wave feminist.

You're straw manning my argument. Bad things have happened and will always happen, and much of this is outside the President's control. Obama was not perfect. Clinton was not a good candidate. None of that is really on the table anymore.

What is on the table is Trump immediately reversing mortgage fee cuts, removing all information about climate change and anything concerning LGBTQ from the White House website, and promising to crack down on freedom of speech through reducing restrictions on police. I suppose if you've been ignoring the writing on the wall you can see plain as day where this administration is going.

[plague]

Bad things have happened and will always happen, and much of this is outside the President's control.

See this is the one i have a hard time understanding. When bad things happen we can absolve our guy because he doesnt have ultimate control, yet we believe Trump all of a sudden has ultimate control to do all these bad things? Im not how that line of thinking works.

Speaking of these 'bad things'.......

What is on the table is Trump immediately reversing mortgage fee cuts errr you mean the ones that Obama land mined for Trump in his last few weeks in office? Obamas 'cuts' were never there during his presidency, and therefore helped no one. Trump repealed legislation designed to make him look bad by a petty ex-president*.

*and yes of course Obama isn't the only President to leave land mines for incoming Presidents.


removing all information about climate change and anything concerning LGBTQ from the White House website,
again, cheeky, and pretty much false. All content from Obamas time in the White House gets transferred to his own archive (they rename it "obamawhitehouse.org or something). The official whitehouse.org site gets blanked and all new content starts again. He's been in office less than a day. Apparently the first blog post that went up was about energy policy so maybe we should all read that first.

ok, and just on climate change. Trump is an lumbering oaf who screams loudly and dumbly on this issue. but on the other side of the fence the likes of our very own Tim Flannery scream loudly and dumbly as well. Somewhere in the middle is probably a very sensible and sustainable policy, but as we all know the boring, measured approach gets no traction in the media. We can all only hope that something is done. But I can't sit here and act like Trump, Gore, or Flannery are all knowing and correct.


and promising to crack down on freedom of speech through reducing restrictions on police. I suppose if you've been ignoring the writing on the wall you can see plain as day where this administration is going.
ok you're gonna have to help me out on this one. I can't really find any 'crack down' on free speech out there. Do you have any specific examples? id love to know what you're referring to here.

[plague]

I love the internet. i really really love it.



Donald Trump officially became president today, and in an inaugural address he promised many things, some of which may sound familiar, because they were directly lifted from the D.C. comics villain Bane.

[plague]

Which part of the fact that millions more voted for Clinton than did for Trump is hard for conservatives to comprehend?



Probably as hard as GVE thinking the Jets won all those games they played because they had more possession, shots on target and corners.
Its an irrelevant topic, and one thats been discussed and explained to the sore Hillary supporters time and time and time again.

The electoral college is the system. they are the rules.

[parksey]

Hey Plague, were you always the guy in your friendship group who had to go against the grain?

You seem like the kinda guy who would read Russia Today and those weird websites that look like they were built in the early 2000s to self-validate your views.

[plague]

Hey Plague, were you always the guy in your friendship group who had to go against the grain?

You seem like the kinda guy who would read Russia Today and those weird websites that look like they were built in the early 2000s to self-validate your views.


i think i needed to have friends to have a 'friendship group' right?

serious though, you raise a valid point. I've always been in trouble for questioning peoples statements. from getting kicked out of class for challenging a lawyers ethics to telling my boss on the first day of my first job that i could do his job better than him. im what you would class as 'socially awkward' as i have no ability to small talk and if someone says something that i don't understand i ask them for an explanation and if im not satisfied with their answer i ask them again and again until i either accept it or they punch me in the face.

having said that, a lot of these statements from the above posts are comments I've heard time and time again over the past few years and i just ask for an explanation in to that line of thinking. and i like steves posts, and think he's a good bloke to engage with. steves posts aren't just steves thinking, a lot of people are of the same opinion and i just want to know why.

when someone posts something like the lgbt one i was genuinely concerned. but a bit of reading gave me a satisfactory answer. i relayed that back to steve because i thought it was a valid balancing point to his. if he believes it then great, and if he doesnt then thats ok too. but we've both had our say and im cool with it.

i 'argue' with you too, but don't mistake it for me screaming 'youre wrong' about anything (same with Dunster/Mr Fish etc). ill argue a point but i also don't know everything so if i pick up something along the way then thats good for me.

im not too sure about your 'self validation' point. if you think any of my explanations are false or misleading, then im all good for you to pick me up on it. i think the above stuff was pretty easily explained though.

(and yes i know i used the word 'explain' and its variants too much in the above post and i apologise).

[plague]

had to go against the grain?


just a note on this, i believe this stems from a lack of formal education. id dare say a lot of peoples understanding of the world comes from being taught at school and uni. i didnt get much of that so i have to pick a lot of it up on the fly. I've had to gain knowledge in life by trying to hang around people smarter than me. a lot of you got that through school. im probably the least educated person most of you will ever meet, i just hope you don't confuse that with stupid.

[The Dunster]

i think i needed to have friends to have a 'friendship group' right?

serious though, you raise a valid point. I've always been in trouble for questioning peoples statements. from getting kicked out of class for challenging a lawyers ethics to telling my boss on the first day of my first job that i could do his job better than him. im what you would class as 'socially awkward' as i have no ability to small talk and if someone says something that i don't understand i ask them for an explanation and if im not satisfied with their answer i ask them again and again until i either accept it or they punch me in the face.

having said that, a lot of these statements from the above posts are comments I've heard time and time again over the past few years and i just ask for an explanation in to that line of thinking. and i like steves posts, and think he's a good bloke to engage with. steves posts aren't just steves thinking, a lot of people are of the same opinion and i just want to know why.

when someone posts something like the lgbt one i was genuinely concerned. but a bit of reading gave me a satisfactory answer. i relayed that back to steve because i thought it was a valid balancing point to his. if he believes it then great, and if he doesnt then thats ok too. but we've both had our say and im cool with it.

i 'argue' with you too, but don't mistake it for me screaming 'youre wrong' about anything (same with Dunster/Mr Fish etc). ill argue a point but i also don't know everything so if i pick up something along the way then thats good for me.

im not too sure about your 'self validation' point. if you think any of my explanations are false or misleading, then im all good for you to pick me up on it. i think the above stuff was pretty easily explained though.

(and yes i know i used the word 'explain' and its variants too much in the above post and i apologise).

Group think is why a lot of people share the same opinions.
In short it's about people wanting to belong to a group so they adopt an opinion or ideology simply because it makes them part of the group more so than because the opinion is valid scientifically / empirically.
To stay a part of the group they accept the groups views regardless of what the evidence suggests. Then it becomes a case of defending the groups views from outsiders.
Economics, politics, science, religion... practically anything we care to name usually has a group think component to it. Sometimes it's a dominant ideology at others it's a new dichotomy from the main group looking to break away.
People that are free thinkers tend not to become part of the dominant ideology.
I would class very few, if any people with University Degrees as free thinkers - in fact the first thing they do at University is disable the part of your brain that allows you to think for yourself. You either follow the ruling ideologies prescription or you fail - simple as that.

[steve136]

Speaking of these 'bad things'.......
errr you mean the ones that Obama land mined for Trump in his last few weeks in office? Obamas 'cuts' were never there during his presidency, and therefore helped no one. Trump repealed legislation designed to make him look bad by a petty ex-president*.

*and yes of course Obama isn't the only President to leave land mines for incoming Presidents.

Fair, although I was a big fan of the cuts, as I am of most policies that I believe will actually help those that need it. I don't see why Trump would reverse the policy other than to further the Republican agenda of being all things anti-Obama. It certainly goes against his campaign rhetoric of helping the little guy.



again, cheeky, and pretty much false. All content from Obamas time in the White House gets transferred to his own archive (they rename it "obamawhitehouse.org or something). The official whitehouse.org site gets blanked and all new content starts again. He's been in office less than a day. Apparently the first blog post that went up was about energy policy so maybe we should all read that first.



No I understand content gets transferred and Trump takes charge of the site. I find it hugely concerning that Trump's new site includes nothing about civil rights, lgbtq issues, economic mobility, inequality or women's issues. This new content outlines the issues that are Trump doesn't regard as important to his administration. Of course, you are right - the content of his website is less of a concern than the openly homophobic and dangerous appointees around him like Pence.




ok you're gonna have to help me out on this one. I can't really find any 'crack down' on free speech out there. Do you have any specific examples? id love to know what you're referring to here.

His new website (one of his six priorities) is to be a “law and order administration” while stopping what it characterised as a “dangerous anti-police atmosphere in America.” This, along with his previous statements that protestors should be physically beaten and stopped concerns me. Protesting is a fundamental building block of a democracy, and it won't do having a Pres that thinks protestors should be silenced.



Probably as hard as GVE thinking the Jets won all those games they played because they had more possession, shots on target and corners.
Its an irrelevant topic, and one thats been discussed and explained to the sore Hillary supporters time and time and time again.

The electoral college is the system. they are the rules.

Yes politically it makes no difference. I just think it's an important distinction that while he won the Presidency, his way of thinking and ideas are not held by the majority of citizens.



having said that, a lot of these statements from the above posts are comments I've heard time and time again over the past few years and i just ask for an explanation in to that line of thinking. and i like steves posts, and think he's a good bloke to engage with. steves posts aren't just steves thinking, a lot of people are of the same opinion and i just want to know why.

when someone posts something like the lgbt one i was genuinely concerned. but a bit of reading gave me a satisfactory answer. i relayed that back to steve because i thought it was a valid balancing point to his. if he believes it then great, and if he doesnt then thats ok too. but we've both had our say and im cool with it.


Agree 100% here. No point going around talking to people that think the exact same way - nothing to be learned in that at all. I enjoy hearing your thoughts and enjoy this thread a lot.

[plague]

Of course, you are right - the content of his website is less of a concern than the openly homophobic and dangerous appointees around him like Pence.


yeah look no one supporting Trump from any angle should be allowed to paper over the stuff that Pence has said. He's in a hugely influential position now, probably more than any other VP in history as he will be in charge of dealing with the rest of the pollies, Trump is leaving a lot of the party mechanics to him.
My only hope is that, like Obama and Clinton, once he's in the big boy chair he understands he's there to govern for all. To have 'society' flip his position (sincerely, not just talk) would be a huge step for that whole party.

im not confident though, as the stinky stench of religion hangs over that whole system so much.

but we can always hope.

[plague]

Group think is why a lot of people share the same opinions.
In short it's about people wanting to belong to a group so they adopt an opinion or ideology simply because it makes them part of the group more so than because the opinion is valid scientifically / empirically.
To stay a part of the group they accept the groups views regardless of what the evidence suggests. Then it becomes a case of defending the groups views from outsiders.
Economics, politics, science, religion... practically anything we care to name usually has a group think component to it. Sometimes it's a dominant ideology at others it's a new dichotomy from the main group looking to break away.
People that are free thinkers tend not to become part of the dominant ideology.
I would class very few, if any people with University Degrees as free thinkers - in fact the first thing they do at University is disable the part of your brain that allows you to think for yourself. You either follow the ruling ideologies prescription or you fail - simple as that.


yeah but group think can come from many different sources too, not just the education system. man I've got mates that work in heavily unionised industries and all they do is read the Newcastle Herald and hang out with their own and i find their views on life fascinating, and at complete odds with mine.

same goes for fervent viewers of Fox News, John Laws fans etc etc. Everywhere you look, everyone has an angle. I just wished everyone took a little bit from everywhere and tried to create their own view.

Maybe nf.net should be required reading for all school kids?

Someone doing 3 unit "Biraz v BK" at school would be amazing.

[The Dunster]

yeah but group think can come from many different sources too, not just the education system. man I've got mates that work in heavily unionised industries and all they do is read the Newcastle Herald and hang out with their own and i find their views on life fascinating, and at complete odds with mine.

same goes for fervent viewers of Fox News, John Laws fans etc etc. Everywhere you look, everyone has an angle. I just wished everyone took a little bit from everywhere and tried to create their own view.

Maybe nf.net should be required reading for all school kids?

Someone doing 3 unit "Biraz v BK" at school would be amazing.

With respect to the union members that's a very good example of Group Think. Although the modern unions were long ago infiltrated by the neo-liberals and few if any of them hold the same values as those that started trade unionism in the first place.
Coal miners being about the most out of touch branch of unionism that comes to mind. The majority of them have completely sold out.

[steve136]

The numbers out there protesting today, particularly in DC, were unbelievable. Great thing regardless of which side of politics you're on - an engaged, passionate citizenry that has the right to voice their opinion is what makes countries like the US and Australia great in the first place.

[plague]

The numbers out there protesting today, particularly in DC, were unbelievable. Great thing regardless of which side of politics you're on - an engaged, passionate citizenry that has the right to voice their opinion is what makes countries like the US and Australia great in the first place.

yeah the ability to do so without being shot is always a good by-product of a civilised society.
I really have no idea what they are all out there doing, nor what they are really trying to achieve, but bless their little cotton socks for having a dig.
i also hope they realise that the source of all their anger was propelled into this position on the back of a 'protest' of a different kind. A smarter, more influential one at the ballot box.
if anything comes out of it hopefully they really refocus their energies to provide a better alternative at the next election.

[plague]

With respect to the union members that's a very good example of Group Think. Although the modern unions were long ago infiltrated by the neo-liberals and few if any of them hold the same values as those that started trade unionism in the first place.
Coal miners being about the most out of touch branch of unionism that comes to mind. The majority of them have completely sold out.

yeah look im on record here as stating that i always will support any fair means to empower the powerless. the problem always arises when the power is then given and the inexperienced immediately look to have their turn on how best to corrupt it. its forever a battle on getting the leverage needle as close to the centre of the labor v capital debate as possible. i tend to side with capital mostly though as letting the idiots run the asylum never ever ends well.

having said that though i usually judge how much power a labor sector should have based on their likelihood of getting killed.

police, give them more say.
office jerks, do what you're ****ing told.

etc etc.

[steve136]

if anything comes out of it hopefully they really refocus their energies to provide a better alternative at the next election.

Absolutely. Hopefully the DNC tries to read the electorate next time rather than just assume that their establishment candidate will walk it in.

[The Dunster]

yeah look im on record here as stating that i always will support any fair means to empower the powerless. the problem always arises when the power is then given and the inexperienced immediately look to have their turn on how best to corrupt it. its forever a battle on getting the leverage needle as close to the centre of the labor v capital debate as possible. i tend to side with capital mostly though as letting the idiots run the asylum never ever ends well.

having said that though i usually judge how much power a labor sector should have based on their likelihood of getting killed.

police, give them more say.
office jerks, do what you're ****ing told.

etc etc.

There is no labour capital debate. That's the problem. Capitalism ended before you were born.
As far as idiots running the asylum - Capital / Business has been responsible for every economic downturn / recession in history. [ Not their fault though -governments have always had the opportunity to resist mass unemployment and falling revenues / incomes].
The best way for all businesses to increase profits is for them to increase wages - but they just don't get it because they have been brain washed by some pretty piss poor arithmetic over the past 200 years.
I'd love to see us return back to a capitalist system because it worked. Not like the shit we deal with today.

Business cannot possibly increase their revenue if the people that purchase their products have falling shares of real income - unless people spend more than they earn or business moves into a very narrow band of products and services. Which is what has happened.

But it can't last forever - eventually household balance sheets will explode and the credit will be out of their reach. As for business, people will have less discretionary spending and as such only have sufficient income for the bare essentials.

Those owning these bare essential type services or products will do very well - anyone that doesn't will turn to dust as the remaining capital falls into fewer and fewer hands.

[plague]

Don't you think it's a consequence of this asshole 'business' mentality of "if you ain't got more you've got less".
Every wanker with a business degree thinks they are running a good business as long as this years revenue is more than last years.
No one looks, or understands, or cares about anything below the line anymore. No one cares about running a sustainable business anymore, and certainly (as you said) labor is one of the last things businesses ever invest in.
Madness.

[The Dunster]

Don't you think it's a consequence of this asshole 'business' mentality of "if you ain't got more you've got less".
Every wanker with a business degree thinks they are running a good business as long as this years revenue is more than last years.
No one looks, or understands, or cares about anything below the line anymore. No one cares about running a sustainable business anymore, and certainly (as you said) labor is one of the last things businesses ever invest in.
Madness.

Absolutely. 100% Agree.

[hawk]

I would class very few, if any people with University Degrees as free thinkers - in fact the first thing they do at University is disable the part of your brain that allows you to think for yourself. You either follow the ruling ideologies prescription or you fail - simple as that.

true that. But info that I give for grades is often different to my viewpoint and with further research you can find valid points to support an argument or opinion which will not fall within a word count. But that also takes time away from doing fun sh1t.

[The Dunster]

true that. But info that I give for grades is often different to my viewpoint and with further research you can find valid points to support an argument or opinion which will not fall within a word count. But that also takes time away from doing fun sh1t.

True - but undergrads even masters students in general know sweet **** all about the topics they supposedly specialise in - most of what they learn is forgotten the day they graduate - which can be good or bad.

Always exceptions - but most of the better engineers I have met were tradies first then they studied - the uni first brigade usually end up off site so they don't kill anyone.

The entire gamut of university assessment is a joke. I'd always say to my students that they had a choice of either listening to me talk shit for 3 hrs twice a week or they could grab five years worth of past papers with answers from the library and knock themselves out a distinction or better with pretty much no effort.

[q-money]

a lot of blokes who identify as "free thinkers" are f*cking morons as well

[plague]

a lot of blokes who identify as "free thinkers" are f*cking morons as well

smoking pot and wearing a doors t-shirt isn't enough to alarm you?

[The Dunster]

smoking pot and wearing a doors t-shirt isn't enough to alarm you?

Stop spying on me Plague.

[plague]

Stop spying on me Plague.

legit i thought you were so old that you are now just a brain in a jar connected to some cables and a Steven Hawking type speech box shit going on.

[Bon]

smoking pot and wearing a doors t-shirt isn't enough to alarm you?

What the fvck is wrong with that? haha

[plague]

listen for all this talk about free thinkers, and education, and capitalism, and unions, its important to note that 99% of the worlds population can't even peel a banana the right way* so regardless of what we do the chimps are gonna win so we may as well all hail Caesar and accept our fate.



*this is a true and correct thing

[Macca]

Found an interesting article last week on the Rolling Stone website. I think it was written back in like 2010, Dunster probably knows the one. All about how pervasive Goldman Sachs are in big wig city in USA but the rest of the world too and how they have been the architects of every big depression/crash since the great depression and lined their pockets massively while doing so. I hadn't heard before about it going that far back, and the other interesting one was that they are also (apparently) behind the high oil prices of the last 10 years, driving investors into resources and commodities after the GFC as they were supposedly safer. This article reckoned at one point each barrel of oil would have been traded 9 times amongst speculators before it made its way to the consumer. This increased "false" demand led to higher prices for consumers despite lower physical demand and increased production. Fairly lengthy read but it was pretty interesting and certainly gave me some more insight into some of what you have said Dunster about how truly ****ed up the world is in terms of functioning only to serve the elite few.

edit - Plague, should note I found the link to the article in a hippy land Guardian comments section, in an article about how Trump was screwing America again. [More specifically his "draining the swamp" was bullshit as he is selecting more ex- Goldman Sachs employees for his staff. Apparently 4/5 last treasurers have previously worked for the firm]

Figured i may as well link it for anyone interested to save them the trouble http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

[plague]

Found an interesting article last week on the Rolling Stone website. I think it was written back in like 2010, Dunster probably knows the one. All about how pervasive Goldman Sachs are in big wig city in USA but the rest of the world too and how they have been the architects of every big depression/crash since the great depression and lined their pockets massively while doing so. I hadn't heard before about it going that far back, and the other interesting one was that they are also (apparently) behind the high oil prices of the last 10 years, driving investors into resources and commodities after the GFC as they were supposedly safer. This article reckoned at one point each barrel of oil would have been traded 9 times amongst speculators before it made its way to the consumer. This increased "false" demand led to higher prices for consumers despite lower physical demand and increased production. Fairly lengthy read but it was pretty interesting and certainly gave me some more insight into some of what you have said Dunster about how truly ****ed up the world is in terms of functioning only to serve the elite few.

edit - Plague, should note I found the link to the article in a hippy land Guardian comments section, in an article about how Trump was screwing America again. [More specifically his "draining the swamp" was bullshit as he is selecting more ex- Goldman Sachs employees for his staff. Apparently 4/5 last treasurers have previously worked for the firm]

Figured i may as well link it for anyone interested to save them the trouble http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-american-bubble-machine-20100405

i also am concerned with Trumps ability to 'drain the swamp' whilst filling his cabinet with the filth from the very same swamp. all i say is that he will be judged on his ability to live up to his promises. Thats how the system works. if he fails he's out on his ass. but my problem is that people have given up already. im willing to let it play out.

one thing that Trump has hinted at (and already used) is his govt leverage in these bailout negotiations. the two big 'public' faces of the GFC in America was the banking sector and the car industry. Trump is saying that in the future if you want the Govt to save your company, then you are going to give the Govt something back. Bush/Obama just handed over money and let the idiots do whatever they wanted (and your article points out why that happened). If Trump can get a better deal then great.

again, im not sure if Trump can do it, but America was of the opinion that Hillary definitely wouldnt.

[Macca]

Yeah all in all. Despite me thinking he's a complete moron (right or wrong) I don't really care too strongly on him being Pres, and I think all the people over here in Aus who are saying its the end of the world etc etc need to wake up to themselves a bit. There are plenty of idiotic politicians over here too. But it also comes down to us judging off public portrayals. Bush is widely regarded is an idiot, but I've seen a few videos where people make the case that he was actually a genius, just not a good public speaker / personable.

I too am interested to see how it plays out. I just hope that all the leftie outrage has been storm in a teacup stuff, because there is potential for it to go very badly.

[steve136]

The Press Secretary coming out and gaslighting the public early isn't a good look though. Why is Trump so sensitive that he sends him out to blatantly lie to the public and make up figures that were immediately discredited by the companies that actually hold them (Metro System operators for one)?

Then today Trump's counselor Conway comes out and says they weren't lying - just using "alternative facts". Kim-Jong Trump needs to be fact checked at every turn.

I'm re-reading 1984 at the moment and the parallels are uncanny.

[plague]

yeah look as I've said before the silver lining is that if it goes as bad as it could go, it may teach voters everywhere to actually judge a candidate on their ability, rather than the fluff and bubble everyone is falling for. im talking Rudd, Turnbull etc all came in on a platform of personality rather than policy. id love all pollies to be anonymous and boring and just get the job done. pure fantasy i know.

[steve136]

id love all pollies to be anonymous and boring and just get the job done. pure fantasy i know.

We're a little lucky in Australia that all our politicians have the charisma of a wet paper bag.

[plague]

The Press Secretary coming out and gaslighting the public early isn't a good look though. Why is Trump so sensitive that he sends him out to blatantly lie to the public and make up figures that were immediately discredited by the companies that actually hold them (Metro System operators for one)?

Then today Trump's counselor Conway comes out and says they weren't lying - just using "alternative facts". Kim-Jong Trump needs to be fact checked at every turn.

I'm re-reading 1984 at the moment and the parallels are uncanny.

yeah i agree they shouldn't bother defending it, but i also think that the nit picking is so frustrating. who cares how many turned up to the inauguration? he got more people to turn up in the right places to vote him in. thats the number that was important right? Trump and his crew should just continually point to the scoreboard so to speak and leave it there.

the petty shots by the haters are frustrating, as it is going to dilute the real outrage if/when he does really screw something up.

[steve136]

but i also think that the nit picking is so frustrating. who cares how many turned up to the inauguration? he got more people to turn up in the right places to vote him in. thats the number that was important right? Trump and his crew should just continually point to the scoreboard so to speak and leave it there.


Oh I agree 100%. I was hoping the first briefing by the press secretary would be informative and talk about policy movements and plans.

But it was the administration's decision for him to get up there and give a bizarre, angry rant about how the media was so unfair and it was the biggest attended event in history. Bizarre.

[Macca]

yeah i agree they shouldn't bother defending it, but i also think that the nit picking is so frustrating. who cares how many turned up to the inauguration? he got more people to turn up in the right places to vote him in. thats the number that was important right? Trump and his crew should just continually point to the scoreboard so to speak and leave it there.

the petty shots by the haters are frustrating, as it is going to dilute the real outrage if/when he does really screw something up.

Yeah, agree on all counts. Lots of sore losers.

I don't have a real issue with charismatic leaders, I think you sort of need to have one if you want to get anywhere. If Shorten was at all likeable he probably would have cruised the last election. But charisma can't be enough, it should be a tool to get you into the job and maintain a good relationship with the public while you go about the business of getting shit done. Politics recently is far far too much about why the other guy is shit and how much they've done wrong rather than "Hey look I have good ideas, lets do this". Trump now has a chance to put his stamp on the country. Australia is screwed for a while, the major parties are both useless which leads to people voting for independents etc, but then the majors have no power to do anything even if they stumble upon decent ideas. I don't know what the solution is

[plague]

Bizarre.

I get the feeling you are gonna get sick and tired of writing that word over the next 4 years!!!!!

[steve136]

I get the feeling you are gonna get sick and tired of writing that word over the next 4 years!!!!!

I have a friend in the US working for a news agency paid for with tax dollars to send news to countries without a free press. Trump and Bannon have actually taken personal executive control of it. With the propaganda machine we have on our hands, I'm sure I'll be brainwashed to be a Trump fan shortly anyway.

[hawk]

Trump upsetting the other racists. bahahaha. What a circus

[steve136]

January 20 declared "National Day of Patriotic Devotion". Heil Trump.

Seriously though, his move to reinstate a global gag rule that bans US-funded groups around the world from discussing abortion is disappointing. Reminds me of the start of a George Carlin skit - "Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to f*ck in the first place?" TPP killed off too - I disagree with most Democrats and Republicans on this one. I don't believe protectionism is the way to grow an economy and create jobs.

[q-money]

wait till all these yanks have to buy their $4500 made in Ohio iphones...lets see how dedicated they are to protectionism then

[plague]

wait till all these yanks have to buy their $4500 made in Ohio iphones...lets see how dedicated they are to protectionism then

I honestly believe Trump is bluffing on the whole protectionism thing.

He's using his position of power to bully companies, and no one has yet called his bluff.

Because if they called his bluff, he can automatically label them 'un-american', and what CEO wants that PR hit?
Combine that with the govt funding that goes into a lot of those industries and he has them over a barrel.

He's negotiating from a position of strength.

[plague]

Seriously though, his move to reinstate a global gag rule that bans US-funded groups around the world from discussing abortion is disappointing.

even though I disagree with it I understand it and don't think it's a massive deal.

Again goes back to his mantra of "our money our way or your money your way - you choose".
Simplistic, jingoistic but also core Republican policy.

Maybe the Clinton foundation can fill in the funding gap?

[steve136]

even though I disagree with it I understand it and don't think it's a massive deal.

Again goes back to his mantra of "our money our way or your money your way - you choose".
Simplistic, jingoistic but also core Republican policy.

Maybe the Clinton foundation can fill in the funding gap?

Deflecting onto Clinton. Right out of the Trump playbook :rof:

But yeah I agree. I don't think it's a massive deal. Although some are claiming it will lead to funding cuts for every program that falls under global health assistance, which would be concerning.

[plague]

a very interesting thing to come out of today was CNN's decision not to air the White House press conference live and in full (apparently this is the way it is done, especially in the early days of an administration). They chose to only show edited portions after the event.

Word is (but not official from CNN themselves) that the decision was made because the White House now tells lies and they don't feel comfortable broadcasting official 'lies' from the Govt without any editing. This is a very very interesting push back from the Trump admin's previous attitude towards such a large (and renowned) media entity.

Will be fascinating if this is true as it can (and no doubt will) go in a thousand different directions.

[steve136]

That's an interesting pushback from CNN. It was striking when Trump refused to answer their question at his press conference because they were "fake news" - when he was actually mad at Buzzfeed, - not CNN who actually chose not to publish the intelligence dosier. On face value, it seems like an ethically correct move by CNN not to broadcast briefings live and in full if they are going to be broadcasting information that is at best misleading and at worst straight up fabricated. Even the Fox News team were arguing that Spicer's briefings weren't legitimately press conferences because he wasn't taking questions.

What is your opinion Plague?

[plague]

That's an interesting pushback from CNN. It was striking when Trump refused to answer their question at his press conference because they were "fake news" - when he was actually mad at Buzzfeed, - not CNN who actually chose not to publish the intelligence dosier. On face value, it seems like an ethically correct move by CNN not to broadcast briefings live and in full if they are going to be broadcasting information that is at best misleading and at worst straight up fabricated. Even the Fox News team were arguing that Spicer's briefings weren't legitimately press conferences because he wasn't taking questions.

What is your opinion Plague?

yeah look its only a rumour regarding CNN's reasons so we are playing hypothetical. i disagree a wee bit on their reporting of the buzzfeed stuff. it was no better than the old "unnamed sources tell us...." line that lets you get away with anything. CNN should have verified it, they are a news organisation, they are there to report the news and they have journalistic standards to adhere to. when the dust settled it looked like they just wanted to stick the boot into Trump and went off way too early.

but its a case of the media not trusting the govt and the govt not trusting the media.
this is the way it is now and no it didnt start with Trump, but its reached peak shambles with this current lot.
in the old days the media was never part of the story, that isn't the case anymore as more and more media members make very lucrative livings offering up news as 'opinion' rather than straight reporting.

its also nothing new that pollies just don't face up to hostile media anymore. Obama and Hillary wouldnt go near Fox News and Trump is calling CNN liars to their faces. None of this is healthy and i have no idea how it resolves itself.

social media is definitely going to be a bigger and bigger factor as pollies find a way to get their message out in their words to their supporters without getting a filter from friendly or unfriendly media. Like it or not Trumps twitter feed was a massive part of his reach and appeal. theres probably a lot of people who at least appreciate that they were hearing from the madman directly. Counter this with Hillary who's every move on social media was so polished and vanilla that a lot of people never really believed it was written by her or that the sentiment was ever genuine anyway.

as i said its going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.

again, im cheering for anarchy and chaos, let it fly.

[hawk]

An arm of the Chinese government has snapped up Rio Tinto's coal mines in NSW and in the process has emerged as one of the largest coal miners in Australia.

can we change our flag to red with dragons

[plague]

can we change our flag to red with dragons

Fly it next to the Hawk family crest from one of the castle spires.

[The Dunster]

yeah look its only a rumour regarding CNN's reasons so we are playing hypothetical. i disagree a wee bit on their reporting of the buzzfeed stuff. it was no better than the old "unnamed sources tell us...." line that lets you get away with anything. CNN should have verified it, they are a news organisation, they are there to report the news and they have journalistic standards to adhere to. when the dust settled it looked like they just wanted to stick the boot into Trump and went off way too early.

but its a case of the media not trusting the govt and the govt not trusting the media.
this is the way it is now and no it didnt start with Trump, but its reached peak shambles with this current lot.
in the old days the media was never part of the story, that isn't the case anymore as more and more media members make very lucrative livings offering up news as 'opinion' rather than straight reporting.

its also nothing new that pollies just don't face up to hostile media anymore. Obama and Hillary wouldnt go near Fox News and Trump is calling CNN liars to their faces. None of this is healthy and i have no idea how it resolves itself.

social media is definitely going to be a bigger and bigger factor as pollies find a way to get their message out in their words to their supporters without getting a filter from friendly or unfriendly media. Like it or not Trumps twitter feed was a massive part of his reach and appeal. theres probably a lot of people who at least appreciate that they were hearing from the madman directly. Counter this with Hillary who's every move on social media was so polished and vanilla that a lot of people never really believed it was written by her or that the sentiment was ever genuine anyway.

as i said its going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.

again, im cheering for anarchy and chaos, let it fly.

The governments and the media are all owned by the G30 so it's not even relevant if the government and media trust each other or not.
It's little more than a smoke screen.
This is the lot responsible for essentially advising the US Government to gift $29 Trillion in payments to save their sorry arses from the GFC they effectively caused.
Trumps not even an issue because he's already under their control the same as Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan before him.
Trumps already started cutting Public Sector Jobs as they have commanded him to do.
it's an abortion - the consequences are going to be another economic disaster sooner rather than later.

And keep in mind the only constraint the US government has for hiring workers is the availability of workers - cost is not an issue as their ability to pay wages cannot be challenged in economic terms.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/trump-freezes-hiring-of-federal-workers/2017/01/23/f14d8180-e190-11e6-ba11-63c4b4fb5a63_story.html?utm_term=.5e09dcf80207

Note: The comments within this article are from Conservative Think tanks and are for comedy purposes only.

[The Dunster]

This is seriously funny.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELD2AwFN9Nc

[furns]

Seeing as this is pretty much the only thread where this discussion can be had - I am interested in a serious discourse on the current push for changing the date of Australia Day.

I get the argument that my fellow white ppl can't really be held to account on atrocities committed by our admittedly f*cked up ancestors, but it also must be said that for Australia to be truly inclusive and at peace within itself, we need a treaty with our aboriginal population and celebrate this great country on a day where everyone can be a part of it. Because unfortunately this day, for a portion of our population, represents the beginning of the systematic eradication & genocide of the aboriginal population & culture.

Happy for both sides of the argument to be made in this discussion - but be respectful. Enough of this leftard vs RWNJ dismissal of points of view. Point & counterpoint, that's how adults have a discussion on ideas.

[plague]

Happy for both sides of the argument to be made in this discussion - but be respectful. Enough of this leftard vs RWNJ dismissal of points of view. Point & counterpoint, that's how adults have a discussion on ideas.

amen to that.

my problem is, exactly what day 'will' represent inclusiveness? Because 26/01/1788 was bad for indigenous folk, and in a lot of peoples minds its never gotten any better. So any day recognised as 'Australia Day' will be seen as a reminder of the divide.

for mine, the date is irrelevant, but every day we have a debate about the date, the way we celebrate, the flag etc etc etc is another day we stop dealing with the real issues facing the indigenous population which are (but not limited to):
-incarceration rate.
-domestic abuse.
-education standards.
-health standards.
-opportunities.
etc etc etc.

Now think what you will about Abbott but he at least shone a big spotlight on it and went "here is the real damn problem how do we fix it" and everyone immediately went "racist!!!!!!". Find me anywhere that the self labelled concerned citizens actually want to fix the problems facing the community and maybe the day we enact some legislation, or the day we begin to see some results, then make that day 'Australia Day'.

sorry was never go to be enough.
hashtags are never going to work.

[plague]

-incarceration rate.
-domestic abuse.
-education standards.
-health standards.
-opportunities.
etc etc etc.

now, before anyone misunderstands what this is.
these are not problems limited to aboriginal people.
these are not problems caused only due to white mans interference.
but the fact is the numbers are skewed and they need to be fixed.

[furns]

How about 9th May? Opening day of the first Federal Parliment in Australia where Australia took over governance from the British? Or Wattle Day on 1st sept?
Agree that such a decision is largely symbolic, but would go a long way to bringing aboriginal society into the fold, as it were.

Also agree though, such a decision would need to be reinforced by significant legislative reform around official recognition & support for First Australians. Maori & Hawaiian ancestral treaties were signed in the 1840's - why are we so far behind?

[plague]

How about 9th May? Opening day of the first Federal Parliment in Australia where Australia took over governance from the British? Or Wattle Day on 1st sept?
Agree that such a decision is largely symbolic, but would go a long way to bringing aboriginal society into the fold, as it were.

Also agree though, such a decision would need to be reinforced by significant legislative reform around official recognition & support for First Australians. Maori & Hawaiian ancestral treaties were signed in the 1840's - why are we so far behind?

yeah but again the 1st day of Parliament was still the 'white mans parliament' one that Aboriginals couldn't vote on yeah?(and i think we hated the chicks back then too right?).
thats my point, every day from early Australia still has an element of suffering for indigenous folk.

and im a little different on the legislation stuff, im talking about laws that treat everyone the same, and standards and expectations across the whole community for us to abide by.

the recognition stuff is fluff. me, you and pretty much everyone else on this foz doesnt need a piece of paper to tell us that everyone is equal. its an assumed expectation that any decent society has.

but pollies prefer to debate this that deal with how to handle the scurge of child abuse in indigenous communities. leave the abusers in there and you're an enabler, remove the kids for their own protection and you're fostering another stolen generation, take away the grog and you're denying civil liberties.

no one wants to tread in those waters.

thats what i hate the most.

[The Dunster]

In the 60's 70's and 80's nobody really gave a rats arse about celebrating Australia Day.
It didn't really become popular until the neo-liberals worked out that it was an excellent means by which to divide and conquer the population through good old fashioned Nazi style nationalism.
Enter John Winston Howard - he loved Australia Day as it allowed him to promote his white supremacist ideology.
Massive push for Australia Day from 1996 on wards. Plutocratic owned media machine also got on board as well to promote the very worst of Australia against minorities.

When should we celebrate Australia Day ? Never. It's nationalistic white supremacist bullshit and the sooner it's forgotten the better.

[plague]

In the 60's 70's and 80's nobody really gave a rats arse about celebrating Australia Day.
Enter John Winston Howard - he loved Australia Day as it allowed him to promote his white supremacist ideology.
Massive push for Australia Day from 1996 on wards.

yep, could have shot a gun down Sydney Harbour back in the 80's and no one would have gotten hurt........
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT199SnJwGVisjYpSYDG4UntOdt8_jtx Mv_dpGvKCD1RGtfscWWDg
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQZdtUyUlEb7a6zryVxpVGKbzfbjKSIn 2yf6P0lV2W65czn_vLJ
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ1Wf5wXcdBNJ6k8FIacN2JC9hXYOcDP UKSSE66BIkaIAxsAyCniQ
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d4/05/1e/d4051e75c1279a5c63878fc99a7e55af.jpg

https://i.redd.it/9tk5545nl0ex.gif

[The Dunster]

yeah but again the 1st day of Parliament was still the 'white mans parliament' one that Aboriginals couldn't vote on yeah?(and i think we hated the chicks back then too right?).
thats my point, every day from early Australia still has an element of suffering for indigenous folk.

and im a little different on the legislation stuff, im talking about laws that treat everyone the same, and standards and expectations across the whole community for us to abide by.

the recognition stuff is fluff. me, you and pretty much everyone else on this foz doesnt need a piece of paper to tell us that everyone is equal. its an assumed expectation that any decent society has.

but pollies prefer to debate this that deal with how to handle the scurge of child abuse in indigenous communities. leave the abusers in there and you're an enabler, remove the kids for their own protection and you're fostering another stolen generation, take away the grog and you're denying civil liberties.

no one wants to tread in those waters.

thats what i hate the most.

Good post Plague.

The governments of the day are still behaving like khunts to our indigenous people . Take these investigations into Child abuse. Not a single conviction -even though they pumped massive resources in against people with little money or skills to fight against it. That's the reality. Imagine the same actions taken upon the suburbs of Vaucluse, Point Piper, or Toorak ? it would never happen - but if it did I'd bet my life they'd uncover more pedo's in those suburbs that they would in the bush.
The incidence of child abuse within Aboriginal communities is all based upon thin air.
Sure it probably happens but why investigate Aboriginal communities and not the top end of town ? Answer: blatant racism.
I mean we all know from A Current Affair that Aboriginals are all alcoholics. Wrong. All the research suggests that alcohol consumption is positively related to income. As incomes rise so to does alcohol consumption.
If the government is worried about alcoholism then they should be targeting the highest income earners not Aboriginal people who in many cases are among the lowest income earning demographic.
Want to lower the incidence of Aboriginal deaths in custody. Easy - stop locking them up for petty issues that any white person would receive a caution for at worst.

Neither side of politics is doing anything and the voting public of this country are simply too ****ing stupid and under the control of the mass media.

[The Dunster]

The bicentennial was when the shit started, prior to that nothing like it is now - it was just a day off work.
The event in 1988 was an outlier. It was not the norm

Google 1988 Australia Day and it lights up like a Xmas tree - put in 1987 and you will struggle to find anywhere near the same amount of pics or indeed celebrations.

Prior to 1994 not all states and territories even recognised let alone celebrated Australia Day as a public holiday.

Get rid of it - it's a waste of time and only links us back to a very dark time in the countries history.

[plague]

i contend that someone like Pat O'Shane has done more to divide Australians that any indigenous man in any indigenous community.

and thats a shame because her achievements warranted respect, but as soon as she became part of the class that looked back down on her own people and kept them from reaching the same heights.

Id make Twiggy Forrest indigenous affairs minister, at least he's trying to empower people. and yes he's doing it to make a dollar for himself, but heck, why not let everyone else in on the fun.

[The Dunster]

i contend that someone like Pat O'Shane has done more to divide Australians that any indigenous man in any indigenous community.

and thats a shame because her achievements warranted respect, but as soon as she became part of the class that looked back down on her own people and kept them from reaching the same heights.

Id make Twiggy Forrest indigenous affairs minister, at least he's trying to empower people. and yes he's doing it to make a dollar for himself, but heck, why not let everyone else in on the fun.

We get nowhere talking about people we need to discuss ideas.
But we also need to discuss them when it suits us not when popular media tells us it's time to do so.

There's only one Twiggy - the original and still the best.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article739771.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Fashion%20model%20Twiggy%20poses%20wearing%20a%20p ink%20dress%20in%201966

[baldrick]

This is seriously funny.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELD2AwFN9Nc

I've just realised; Trump talks exactly like Dr Evil.

[The Dunster]

http://www.solidarity.net.au/aboriginal/charity-man-twiggy-not-as-generous-as-he-makes-out/
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/indigenous/human-rights-complaint-on-mining-magnate-andrew-forrest/news-story/aa6ac12c3d914277031fbf7ab6d4b4f3
http://www.noosacommunityradio.org/high-level-racism-in-generationone-exposed-on-tribal-voice/
https://castancentre.com/2015/10/06/andrew-forrests-healthy-welfare-card-a-basicscard-with-added-human-rights/

More reasons why Andrew [Twiggy] Forrest should never be taken seriously.

And if we dig deeper we can see his privileged family background and note that the only thing he knows about indigenous Australians is how to take their land or publicly shame them - as did his family right back to his great grand father and great Uncle - known white supremacists of their days.

Sir John Forrest in particular as Premier of WA put into law that non-whites could not own mining licences. That's a wonderful legacy indeed.

[Macca]

I think changing the date is a bit of a wank and just the latest in a long series of social media activist hype trains for people to feel like they are a good person and receive validation from like minded people. It may be the case that Australia Day has negative connotations for some of the indigenous population, but is moving it around really going to change much? Like Plague said its still gonna be the same day and people will then shift onto the next small and petty thing they want to change.

I completely agree that rather than a nominal change of date of a public holiday, actually fix the many real problems that the indigenous population have. Some of the stats the WHO and other orgs have on how much poorer off the average indigenous person is in Aus to the rest of the population are terrible and really are a blight on the nation's record.

[The Dunster]

I think changing the date is a bit of a wank and just the latest in a long series of social media activist hype trains for people to feel like they are a good person and receive validation from like minded people. It may be the case that Australia Day has negative connotations for some of the indigenous population, but is moving it around really going to change much? Like Plague said its still gonna be the same day and people will then shift onto the next small and petty thing they want to change.

I completely agree that rather than a nominal change of date of a public holiday, actually fix the many real problems that the indigenous population have. Some of the stats the WHO and other orgs have on how much poorer off the average indigenous person is in Aus to the rest of the population are terrible and really are a blight on the nation's record.

Peoples perception of the day is totally skewed though. Not helped by the honourable Plagues post of 1988 either.

As I said previously it wasn't even recognised at a national holiday until 1994 and prior to that only celebrated on any large scale to commemorate the 50th, 100, 150th, and 200th anniversaries of the 1788 landings.

And even then it was more or less a Sydney celebration not an Australian one. Philatelists have celebrated the day occasionally as well - but again - nothing huge.

And it doesn't help when someone like Andrew Forrest who's relationship with the Indigenous community is well documented - get an Australia Day gong.

It's nothing more than a piss take upon the masses by the elites who laughingly call Australia an egalitarian society.

[plague]

We won't get anywhere while our biggest publicly funded media outlets promote division and racism while trying to convince everyone they are anything but.

[The Dunster]

We won't get anywhere while our biggest publicly funded media outlets promote division and racism while trying to convince everyone they are anything but.

Exactly, even the links I posted are part of the problem. It's an all in shit fight of epic proportions

[hawk]

http://www.australiaday.org.au/australia-day/history/timeline/

It's always been celebrated or acknowledged for over 100years. Being gazzetted as a public hol in 1994 means nothing.

The question now - "is it still appropriate?" when we answer that we can make changes. So when did we become all Australian? Federation? When Indigineous were accepted as people, when immipgrants were accepted as Aussies? There's a sh1tload of cultural and social change to deal with for some.

Sure as shit through, when we choose a date there'll be someone saying thats my day of mourning you inconsiderate bastards.

Personally, January is a crap time for celebration, When silly season kicks in would be good, #LetsgetshitfacedNovember?

[The Dunster]

It's always been celebrated or acknowledged for over 100years. Being gazzetted as a public hol in 1994 means nothing.

The question now - "is it still appropriate?" when we answer that we can make changes. So when did we become all Australian? Federation? When Indigineous were accepted as people, when immipgrants were accepted as Aussies? There's a sh1tload of cultural and social change to deal with for some.

Sure as shit through, when we choose a date there'll be someone saying thats my day of mourning you inconsiderate bastards.

Personally, January is a crap time for celebration, When silly season kicks in would be good, #LetsgetshitfacedNovember?

In 1986 the Australia Act came in force on March 3rd. We could celebrate that.
The removal of Section 127 from the Constitution or the re-writing of section 128 could also be celebrated on August 10th. [although the territories did not comply until 1977 referendum was passed].

All very significant for all Australians - but I think March 3 would be the best one as it is really the point whereby we became our own country, and it is inclusive of all Australians.

Any other ideas ?

Even for non-aboriginal people I think celebrating the 1788 landing is ridiculous, especially when you consider that we were still under British Rule in one form or another for almost 200 years after that date.

Menzies always referred to himself as a subject of the empire rather than as an Aussie.

[plague]

the point whereby we became our own country, and it is inclusive of all Australians.

Found it.
http://www.sportsbet.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2cpc7.gif

Close thread.

[Retro Jet]

In 1988 I dropped acid for the first time in the daytime.
Best way I could have 'celebrated' 200 years.
I've never looked at p!ssed wits on Australia Day the same since...

[The Dunster]

Found it.
http://www.sportsbet.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2cpc7.gif

Close thread.

Agreed. /thread

[parksey]

November 16.

[pv4]

May 8

Just do it

[plague]

November 16.

Divisive day. Loads of middle age white AFL and NRL fans still angry they had to turn a few pages in to read about the latest drug and rape scandal.

[Jetmaster]

November 16.

Good call - the day Australia's multicultural society took on the world bad guys and won, progressing to its biggest party. Or as a thought, what about.....

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xr/80039163.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=3&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5485EB308218D60CABC 7582E795EB8FDA2F1E42A2E2CE1BBCAD

Why do we not just ask the indigenous people - "what would be a day of note to celebrate the diverse Australian community". It doesn't need to be a historic date...just a a date that suits all.

I agree with Dunster - much of the flag waving (it was illegal to display the flag outside your home for many years) started with 1988. And that is when many of the problems started. It has been dead since Cronulla.

[steve136]

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/318019/president-trump-pretends-speak-japanese-during-prime-minister-abe-visit/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1486754150

No idea what he's doing? Completely out of his depth? This guy will be coaching the Jets right after he's done with his current gig.

[plague]

t'was just sitting there tonight watching the telly when it dawned on me that neither me, nor anyone i know, hates another human being as much as some of these politicians hate gay people.

i mean, its just 'weird' that people find the time to get about hating so much.

just weird man.

[The Dunster]

t'was just sitting there tonight watching the telly when it dawned on me that neither me, nor anyone i know, hates another human being as much as some of these politicians hate gay people.

i mean, its just 'weird' that people find the time to get about hating so much.

just weird man.

They hate anything that runs against their religious beliefs such as gays and Aboriginals - and if you happen to be gay and aboriginal then it gets really ugly.
I should add the religious rights hatred of Aboriginals has nothing to do with racism per se. It's more about the fact their very existence makes a mockery of creationism.

[q-money]

but the culture wars are over and it's time for the grown ups to take charge and get on with the real business...of continuing the culture wars

[hawk]

They hate anything that runs against their religious beliefs such as gays and Aboriginals - and if you happen to be gay and aboriginal then it gets really ugly.
I should add the religious rights hatred of Aboriginals has nothing to do with racism per se. It's more about the fact their very existence makes a mockery of creationism.

Religious people have every right to disagree with something dont believe in as long as it does not break law. There are 1000's of groups hateing on someone else right now but only a couple take the limelight. Vegos hate meateaters, motorcyclists vs cars, cyclists vs everyone, afl hates league, lib hate lab, ford hates holden, 15 minority groups hate each other in Syds west. Pick a fight and fap on about the injustice. Fill a bucket of tears and pour it on the garden....or go to the organisation that needs help and volunteer to help.

btw, Ive seen many Christians help indigenous but that cant be right cause it conflicts with another view

Stick to football and beer its much simpler

[The Dunster]

Religious people have every right to disagree with something dont believe in as long as it does not break law. There are 1000's of groups hateing on someone else right now but only a couple take the limelight. Vegos hate meateaters, motorcyclists vs cars, cyclists vs everyone, afl hates league, lib hate lab, ford hates holden, 15 minority groups hate each other in Syds west. Pick a fight and fap on about the injustice. Fill a bucket of tears and pour it on the garden....or go to the organisation that needs help and volunteer to help.

btw, Ive seen many Christians help indigenous but that cant be right cause it conflicts with another view

Stick to football and beer its much simpler

Two options for the Christian Right fundamentalists:

1. Demonstrate that Planck's constant is equal to zero.
2. Provide evidence that the earth is not greater than 6000 years old.

Because that's the rules the fundamentalists Plague was referring to are playing by. I never referred to all religious people.

I have no issue with good christian folk like John Polkinghorne who actually understand what they are talking about.

My issue is with fundamentalists / ideologues who push a position which is completely false and attack those that don't agree with them.

Your example is poor though because being born aboriginal or gay is not a choice like veganism, riding a motorcycle and so on.

Like I said - the fundamentalists need to show the earths not more than 6000 years old , demonstrate that Planck's constant is equal to zero - and I will apologise and withdraw my comments.

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KlJ7Bt3oxE

The Christian Right do not agree with this video. They are beyond help.

[The Dunster]

I thought I'd post this one fjust in case Scott Morrison drops in for a read.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCOVldiGeQY

[steve136]

Great comic written a while back by Democratic Senator Al Franken. Worth a read. He's my dark horse for a presidential run in 2020.

http://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp

[hawk]

WA erection - Bunbury 30% swing, ayfkm

[plague]

WA erection - Bunbury 30% swing, ayfkm

Was always coming wasn't it?
Old Col put the cue in the rack ages ago. Libs never stood a chance, let alone the National team giving them the cold shoulder.
How did the revolutionaries and Heir Hanson go?

[The Dunster]

Was always coming wasn't it?
Old Col put the cue in the rack ages ago. Libs never stood a chance, let alone the National team giving them the cold shoulder.
How did the revolutionaries and Heir Hanson go?

The Coalition don't lose elections they hand over the mess to the ALP. It's been like that for over 50 years.

[plague]

So this penalty rate debate.
Nonsense right across the board.
No wonder blokes like Trump get elected.

[plague]

So this penalty rate debate.
Nonsense right across the board.
No wonder blokes like Trump get elected.

Ditto for this 'housing affordability' debate.

[pv4]

So this penalty rate debate.
Nonsense right across the board.
No wonder blokes like Trump get elected.

My favourite line of the whole debate came from the Toots

http://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/penalty-rates-collingwood-barista-forced-to-scrap-3-x-mdma-caps-from-weekly-budget/


Bryson says that while he looks down his nose at any form of organised religion, he still respects the Judeo-Christian traditions of taking it easy on a Sunday

[parksey]

So this penalty rate debate.
Nonsense right across the board.
No wonder blokes like Trump get elected.


Ditto for this 'housing affordability' debate.

Please elaborate.

[plague]

Please elaborate.

labour 'reform' in this country never goes anywhere.

people using 'penalty rates' as a reason why they are going out of business are telling fibs.

no one cares about the big picture because it is further down the road than the next election and p&l.

so why they even bother pretending to care?

[plague]

Please elaborate.


govt can't really do anything in the short term to help old arts graduate on a $55k wage move into that terrace in Darlinghurst like they always dreamed of.


life sucks sometimes.

[q-money]

govt can't really do anything in the short term to help old arts graduate on a $55k wage move into that terrace in Darlinghurst like they always dreamed of.


life sucks sometimes.

i know you're just being contrarian but it's not a great situation big plagueos and i'm sure you're aware.

i upskilled my arts degree into a PhD in medicine (innovative and agile, cunce) and i'm at a loss as to how i even buy a one bedroom apartment even close to where i work. (n.b. i work in kings cross). i'm not poorly paid now - but while doing said phd i was on a low end scholarship. i'm lucky i have a wife who had a good job. but in that 4 years while studying, prices in the city went bananas. like legit bananas.

the system is pretty busted. i understand i could move to the country (however there are no jobs in my particularly poorly chosen research speciality in da country) but even getting in on the bottom rung where plebs like me could afford in sydney, i.e. one bedders - is cooked.

i'd like a house but i'm a realist. i'd like a career too. christ, i'd like a kid but i'm not sure how i could afford to have it all.

i'll find a way no doubt but it's pretty grim on the property front, even if you are a useful yuppie like myself

i hope to land a couple of fat quaddies in the future to get me in the game

[q-money]

how much debt are blokes willing to get into these days?

are you willing just to cop it purely to get a roof over your head and a backyard for yer sproggets?

[The Dunster]

I'm not aiming this at anyone here - just a generalisation

I'll put my old person hat on for a paragraph or two. In saying that, the consumer society we live in is playing into the hands of the Finance sector and we really have nobody to blame but ourselves for allowing it to happen.
Now - for those young people fortunate enough to have a job.
I managed to save over $200k in seven years with earnings of around 60k per annum.
You just have to prioritise and go without anything that doesn't keep you alive or won't turn you a profit in the future.
And by that I mean never take a loan out for anything unless you are 99.9% sure you are going to make at least 50% profit on it after costs and taxes.
If you can't afford to pay cash for a car or bike - save until you can.
Spending $1000 or so a year on a mobile phone ? Great if you can afford it, but just don't whinge about houses being not affordable when you waste money on shit you don't need.....
Holidays overseas.. and so on. Again. tired of hearing khunts whining about housing affordability when they jet set around overseas - borrowing to do so in many cases.
Weddings - **** me why ? If can't afford to buy a house you cannot afford a wedding.

No doubt there are people with genuine money worries due to being unemployed through no fault of their own or perhaps having unforeseen costs due to illness, or whatever.
But the reality is that people are caught up in consumerism and chasing rainbows and it's making them miserable.
Sure the government are puppets for the plutocrats and all but people need to at least get themselves into a position to say I've done all I can - which is rarely the case these days.
Always save money - doesn't matter if it's five dollars a week or $1000 a week - it all adds up, and it develops a mindset which will make your life a lot easier when you get older.

[plague]

i know you're just being contrarian but it's not a great situation big plagueos and i'm sure you're aware.

i upskilled my arts degree into a PhD in medicine (innovative and agile, cunce) and i'm at a loss as to how i even buy a one bedroom apartment even close to where i work. (n.b. i work in kings cross). i'm not poorly paid now - but while doing said phd i was on a low end scholarship. i'm lucky i have a wife who had a good job. but in that 4 years while studying, prices in the city went bananas. like legit bananas.

the system is pretty busted. i understand i could move to the country (however there are no jobs in my particularly poorly chosen research speciality in da country) but even getting in on the bottom rung where plebs like me could afford in sydney, i.e. one bedders - is cooked.

i'd like a house but i'm a realist. i'd like a career too. christ, i'd like a kid but i'm not sure how i could afford to have it all.

i'll find a way no doubt but it's pretty grim on the property front, even if you are a useful yuppie like myself

i hope to land a couple of fat quaddies in the future to get me in the game

i went round the outside to get into the middle. brought places in the shitsville for nothing then tripled my investment in a few short years.
all the data was there to help me along. i now live in the in the guts of it with owing nothing. it can be done.

you want to make good money in the medium term (10years). Just south of Perth you can buy beachfront land for $200k. you want certainty in life, death taxes, the Jets suck and beachfront land will always be at a premium.

1.buy there.
2.sit on it.
3. ???????
4. Buy in Sydney.

i dont envy anyone having to work/live in the shithole that is Sydney. id never even try buying in there at the moment.
my only advice is to say your prayers, eat your vitamins and load on on quaddies.


back on topic though my issue is that govts are banging on about people not being able to afford homes. the govt cant force people to sell for less, or discriminate against those who want to buy.

i just wish they'd shut up about it.

[The Dunster]

how much debt are blokes willing to get into these days?

are you willing just to cop it purely to get a roof over your head and a backyard for yer sproggets?

Start a family and work the shit out as you go along. Seriously, there is no better incentive for making money than having a wife and child to support.
Sydney jobs will dry up in the coming years anyway because their will be no essential services due to those workers living 3 hours each way from where they work.
The good news is that jobs will eventually start moving away from the big cities - and if they don't then pay rates will need to rise accordingly to stop the exodus.

I worked out long ago that it's not what you earn but what you have left after expenses which is important. In other words a basic tradie living in Newcastle / Maitland effectively is better off than any lawyer who hasn't made partner in Sydney and you could probably throw a whole host of other professions in there as well.

[plague]

You just have to prioritise and go without anything that doesn't keep you alive or won't turn you a profit in the future.


actually whilst im not parking in the same spots as Dunster at Westfield, i can understand this point.


id have way way way more money if i didnt gamble, drink, travel and take cocaine.

id also probably be the most miserable prick on the planet, instead of the happy cheery asshole you all know and love.

but i always made my money before spending it. i always used it as motivation to succeed in ventures. and if a venture didnt pay off (even the Plague has had some bad beats) then i went without.

Getting in over your head in debt for anything is crazy IMHO.


fight the power.

[The Dunster]

i went round the outside to get into the middle. brought places in the shitsville for nothing then tripled my investment in a few short years.
all the data was there to help me along. i now live in the in the guts of it with owing nothing. it can be done.

you want to make good money in the medium term (10years). Just south of Perth you can buy beachfront land for $200k. you want certainty in life, death taxes, the Jets suck and beachfront land will always be at a premium.

1.buy there.
2.sit on it.
3. ???????
4. Buy in Sydney.

i dont envy anyone having to work/live in the shithole that is Sydney. id never even try buying in there at the moment.
my only advice is to say your prayers, eat your vitamins and load on on quaddies.


back on topic though my issue is that govts are banging on about people not being able to afford homes. the govt cant force people to sell for less, or discriminate against those who want to buy.

i just wish they'd shut up about it.

It scares me how much I agree with you when it comes to money / investment. good post.

[parksey]

Yeah well saving $200,000 in seven years from 60g per year is legit insane and would be even more difficult in the present day.

Good on you, seriously.

But right now in Sydney there are three or four suburbs that have a median house price deemed to be affordable in relation to weekly repayments on the average wage: they're all 50km away from the CBD in suburbs that are basically fibro housing commission lots. On average they cost more than $400,000.

Unless you were lucky to buy years ago, or are loaded, there's very little hope for young people in today's housing market - in Sydney at least. Newcastle is a lot better mind you. Still, houses in Merewether etc. are going for upwards of $4m these days.

[q-money]

i don't think the government owes me anything - if anything i owe it for 4 years of premium postgraduate education which i effectively got for a wage to live - which isn't afforded to more useful members of society - i.e. apprentice tradies

everyone is really right in a way - buy in perceived shitty areas, live like a pauper, drive a shit car etc. i've done the majority of them and will for a while.

as long as i'm alive and employed i'll be alright but man it must be tough for blokes/sheilas who aren't earning a decent wedge.

[q-money]

Start a family and work the shit out as you go along. Seriously, there is no better incentive for making money than having a wife and child to support.

soz mate i actually missed that one before i posted - this seems to be the truth

the only thing that probably spur me and my sweet angel to up sticks will be the arrival of q-minho

crazy times. lets land those quads lads

[plague]

Yeah well saving $200,000 in seven years from 60g per year is legit insane and would be even more difficult in the present day.

Good on you, seriously.

But right now in Sydney there are three or four suburbs that have a median house price deemed to be affordable in relation to weekly repayments on the average wage: they're all 50km away from the CBD in suburbs that are basically fibro housing commission lots. On average they cost more than $400,000.

Unless you were lucky to buy years ago, or are loaded, there's very little hope for young people in today's housing market - in Sydney at least. Newcastle is a lot better mind you. Still, houses in Merewether etc. are going for upwards of $4m these days.


totally agree on the cost in sydney.
but there are more than one ways to 'save' for a deposit. invest in property with some mates (the Greeks have their own freaking economy in Melbourne based on this), help finance a business. think outside the box. i wasn't joking on that Perth land idea, it will make someone lots and lots of money over the next 10 years. if you want it to be you, then go for it. if you don't want to take that risk, i totally understand, but someone will so why not me?

and no , im not telling anyone how its done, because its so ****ing hard, especially with a wife and kid.

and please don't think im all that much older than a few of you blokes on here.


and again, my argument, is that there is no simple answer. so why the govt is carrying on about it boggles me.

[plague]

oh and for those worried about it, my best advice.

don't sweat it.
write a list of the real priorities in your life.
work from top to bottom.
if you don't make it all the way down, then keep going til you do.

but if you knock over at least one, then you've nailed the most important one.



no one* in the world has 'everything', so don't feel the need to kill yourself trying.










*except Griff. Griff has everything. Hail Griff.

[The Dunster]

Some of the shitty areas in Sydney were actually not too bad to live in 40 years ago. Kings Langley for example was really nice in the 1970's and affordable for middle income earners and above. Today, it's an absolute shit hole with houses selling for over a million dollars that are woeful. Peoples yards look like shit now - and it's just a total dive all round.
We had some friends come up here and visit a few weeks ago who used to live there and they went past their old home and could not believe what had become of the suburb or indeed housing prices.

[plague]

Some of the shitty areas in Sydney were actually not too bad to live in 40 years ago. Kings Langley for example was really nice in the 1970's and affordable for middle income earners and above.

when i was first looking to buy my boss (in sydney) drove me out to Balmain and told me the history.
then he took me to mayfield and pointed out the similarities.
i brought my first house in Mayfield, i wanted to live in Merewether.
buying in Mayfield was the smartest financial decision i ever made.

there are more 'Mayfields' out there.

[The Dunster]

when i was first looking to buy my boss (in sydney) drove me out to Balmain and told me the history.
then he took me to mayfield and pointed out the similarities.
i brought my first house in Mayfield, i wanted to live in Merewether.
buying in Mayfield was the smartest financial decision i ever made.

there are more 'Mayfields' out there.

Yes. Totally agree with you there - it has always ticked all the boxes - Close to a major centre with very expensive housing, and excellent transport.
And I don't think Mayfield has finished yet - not by a long shot. It will surge again one day as well.

I'm not a city person so the further away from civilisation I can get the better. My next house will probably be Paterson or East Gresford with some river frontage - Just need to come out of retirement for a year or two down the track and load up the coffers a little.

[q-money]

righto but can you cunce go to BBQ king, eat a duck and get a bag of rack at 2am?

swings and roundabouts

[furns]

righto but can you cunce go to BBQ king, eat a duck and get a bag of rack at 2am?

swings and roundabouts
So long as you dont want a beer as well lol

[plague]

righto but can you cunce go to BBQ king, eat a duck and get a bag of rack at 2am?


Who the hell cares about duck?

[plague]

So long as you dont want a beer as well lol

Just on this I was in Radelaide the other week and Jesus H Griff everything is shut on Sunday's.
The hell is up with that?

[The Dunster]

righto but can you cunce go to BBQ king, eat a duck and get a bag of rack at 2am?

swings and roundabouts

Yes, but is it really duck ?

[furns]

Just on this I was in Radelaide the other week and Jesus H Griff everything is shut on Sunday's.
The hell is up with that?all the bloody churches might be a clue old son ;)

[The Dunster]

Just on this I was in Radelaide the other week and Jesus H Griff everything is shut on Sunday's.
The hell is up with that?

Google Box Hill in Melbourne if you really want to find out the worst place in the world to live.

[plague]

all the bloody churches might be a clue old son ;)

Hehehehe.

Id dare say the girls from Crazy Horse spent a bit of time in the confessional.

[WolfMan]

RE: housing affordability - the main issue I have (and I'm not whinging, just more of a point to make) is that rent prices are akin to mortgage repayments.

And you're expected to save at least 5% deposit on top of this. So basically, to show you can afford to pay off 1x mortgage, you have to effectively cover 2 of them.

I understand there's legislation proposed to change this, but it's just crazy

[pv4]

I'm fully on board with Dunst & plague here. I hear all about this "survivability" etc with house prices and penalty rates but really, everything comes down to lifestyle. We've talked ourselves into the idea that we're "suffering" if we have less than 4GB data on our phone plans, if every adult doesn't have a car, if we don't have a 4bed 2bath house with the chocolate lab. Note that I personally fit a large amount of sterotypes, and I know it, so I acknowledge my hypocrisy here. But people just need to ACTUALLY prioritise what they NEED, because most people I see whinging about this shit currently are noticeably wasting their money on useless shit but then have the gaul to complain that they don't have what the normies have. Be adaptable, be flexible, make smart decisions & prioritise and you'll be able to save like plague and dunst are saying. Best eg i can give is i moved out of a share house and back with my parents to save for a house deposit. And a lot of people i see complaining "i can't move back with my parents" actually can, but talk themselves out of doing it. But in saying that I understand some people truly don't have those kind of opportunities.

But on q's thoughts, I saw this on social media the other day and found it extremely relevant:
In 2000 the minimum wage was $15. Allowing for inflation that would be $22.89 in todays money. Yet the current minimum wage is $17.70. Inflation outstripping minimum wage by 23% over 17 years.

[plague]

Actually all giggles aside q-mans post last night about late night duck and a bag of rack is quite pertinent.

I found out recently that one day eventually I'm going to die. Then the news got broken to me that everyone I know and have ever met in my life will also die one day too, and that kind of sucks.

So between now and that day, I'm going to enjoy myself immensely.

My great grandparents (who I didn't really ever know) arrived here by boat, from war, worked their asses off, had a nice big house in Merewether then decided to retire.

They sold everything they owned, and travelled the world for years before dying of old age (and smoking) within 6 months of each other.

They left their kids absolutely nothing other than the knowledge that you can have whatever you want, but you gotta go get it yourself.

Every time I hear that story I pump my fist because I think it's an awesome way to live. I've told Plague Jnr that's what I'm doing to him, luckily he's got his mothers brains so he'll be fine.

My great grandparents essentially died penniless, but they are the only people in my family worth remembering.

One persons property portfolio is another persons duck and back of rack.

Whatever floats your boat.



(And now I want to go out for a night on the tiles with q-man).

[hawk]

Dunst and Plague nailed it. You both have rich dad mentality and a big part of that is taking risk in investment of some sort. I did the house sharing, living at home, driving bomb cars, saving up even when my job earned $100 a week. I had more fun then while owning nothing.

If I had no chance of buying a house in the city now i'd buy in the next available suburb that I could afford, glendale, jeso it doesnt really matter. Alternatively if my job prospects sucked I'd buy a cheap piece of land in the country, owner build a kit home and live on govt welfare with the the odd cashy job for hols, ripping interent and enjoy the family growing up. Even our small city is starting to sh1t me.

Having a job in sydney centre? Ive no clue how to solve that.

[plague]

Dunst and Plague nailed it. You both have rich dad mentality and a big part of that is taking risk in investment of some sort. I did the house sharing, living at home, driving bomb cars, saving up even when my job earned $100 a week. I had more fun then while owning nothing.

If I had no chance of buying a house in the city now i'd buy in the next available suburb that I could afford, glendale, jeso it doesnt really matter. Alternatively if my job prospects sucked I buy a cheap piece of land in the country, owner build a kit home and live on govt welfare with the the odd cashy job for hols, ripping interent and enjoy the family growing up. Even our small city is starting to sh1t me.

Having a job in sydney centre? Ive no clue how to solve that.

Look at Hawk trying to sympathise with the common man whilst his PA types his posts from his private island.

[hawk]

Look at Hawk trying to sympathise with the common man whilst his PA types his posts from his private island.

oops, this isnt the Newcastle Club lounge forum? damn.

[plague]

oops, this isnt the Newcastle Club lounge forum? damn.

Bhahahahaha

[pv4]

"Just be rich and become richer"

- sent from Hawks macbook go pro 710 sports model

[pv4]

^ worth noting everyone I see online whinging about penalty rates and not surviving and all that stuff etc are writing it from their tablets and macpros and all that shit

[q-money]

how do you suggest people find work in the gig economy without a laptop/phone you luddite

[plague]

how do you suggest people find work in the gig economy without a laptop/phone you luddite

Actually legit question, are you hamstrung with your work by 'needing' to be in Sydney or have you ever done the math on living/working somewhere else?

And that's not me finger wagging that you should, I'm always choosing lifestyle over money, but my work opportunities don't sound as specific as others on here.

[plague]

^ worth noting everyone I see online whinging about penalty rates and not surviving and all that stuff etc are writing it from their tablets and macpros and all that shit

Oh man please don't be 'that guy'.


The people crying most about penalty rates are just people who live by the rule of 'if you don't have more, you have less'.
They are unable to see anything outside of the narrow view of the people they believe in, and parrot the mantra louder than the last one.

**** those people.

[pv4]

how do you suggest people find work in the gig economy without a laptop/phone you luddite

Well for eg most of the people I see whinging have the latest samsung iphone G9+ on a $60 + $7 phone per month plan whereas a really quick google just now shows me a $60 outright Huawei smartphone (which can connect to wifi) and $10 optus recharge with unlimited text.

But nah, they're barely surviving with that phone that's too big to fit in their pocket.

Like I've said above and always will though, I realise my own hypocrisies. I have a laptop, I have a phone plan, and a galaxy s5 (is that considered new anymore?). But I'm not the one claiming I can't survive. And if I wasn't surviving, first thing I'd do is go to aldi and sign up for that prepaid mobile tbh

[pv4]

Oh man please don't be 'that guy'.


The people crying most about penalty rates are just people who live by the rule of 'if you don't have more, you have less'.
They are unable to see anything outside of the narrow view of the people they believe in, and parrot the mantra louder than the last one.

**** those people.

And that, my friend, is the leftist millenial hivemind known as facebook in a nutshell.

Porksey knows.

[q-money]

Actually legit question, are you hamstrung with your work by 'needing' to be in Sydney or have you ever done the math on living/working somewhere else?

And that's not me finger wagging that you should, I'm always choosing lifestyle over money, but my work opportunities don't sound as specific as others on here.

no worries man.

i work in the clinical trials industry, so have to be on call for our sites, the majority of which are in the CBD as that's just the nature of the clinics. the best surgeons are here, so you have to be here really. the financial cost of living somewhere else would outweigh the savings i made if i commuted in. i doubt i would have got the job if i had to commute either - you need to be able to be on site at weird hours depending on the nature of the trial.

i handed up my thesis last year and the prospects of post-doc, contract work in my field weren't great in sydney as the money for the field i am in has dried up - hence the switch to industry. the universities which i could work at, with my speciality - are exclusively sydney/melbourne based really - and that's also where my contacts are. the money/jobs are just not there in other cities around australia. family circumstances kind of predicate i can't move overseas, which could have been an option.

i'd seriously entertain the thought of commuting from wider out if the infrastructure was there. i know a lot of other blokes would as well. fast trains, teleportation and shit, make it happen trumball

[plague]

And that, my friend, is the leftist millenial hivemind known as facebook in a nutshell.

Porksey knows.

Nah man, greed and ignorance ain't exclusive to one side of the chamber.

[pv4]

Yeah well saving $200,000 in seven years from 60g per year is legit insane and would be even more difficult in the present day.



Please tell me if my maths is incorrect.

200k / 7years = 28571 per year / 12months = 2381 per month / 4 weeks = 596 per week.

That's roughly the amount you're going to pay in a mortgage anyway (depending on your loan setup etc).

I don't really see that as "insane" tbh.

Obviously contexts come into play but that's not as outrageous a thought as I think you made it out to be porksey.

But yes I do agree, great work Dunst

[q-money]

Please tell me if my maths is incorrect.

200k / 7years = 28571 per year / 12months = 2381 per month / 4 weeks = 596 per week.

That's roughly the amount you're going to pay in a mortgage anyway (depending on your loan setup etc).

I don't really see that as "insane" tbh.

Obviously contexts come into play but that's not as outrageous a thought as I think you made it out to be porksey.

But yes I do agree, great work Dunst

imagine having to move back to your parents house for 7 years when you're 32 lol

i'd top myself in a week

[pv4]

soz mate i actually missed that one before i posted - this seems to be the truth

the only thing that probably spur me and my sweet angel to up sticks will be the arrival of q-minho

crazy times. lets land those quads lads

Just get Mrs Q into the public sector before you do it because from experience i can tell you it's not easy starting a family and "only" being "entitled" to the 4 months maternity leave, depending on your setup.

[q-money]

Just get Mrs Q into the public sector before you do it because from experience i can tell you it's not easy starting a family and "only" being "entitled" to the 4 months maternity leave, depending on your setup.

beat you to it! 10 years in the university sector this year, we're flyin'

[pv4]

beat you to it! 10 years in the university sector this year, we're flyin'

Go for it, Icarus!

[pv4]

And bruh tie that shit in with long service, yea boi

[plague]

i'd seriously entertain the thought of commuting from wider out if the infrastructure was there. i know a lot of other blokes would as well. fast trains, teleportation and shit, make it happen trumball

Yeah my old man used to commute from Newy to Sydney 5 days a week and it turned him into an absolute **** of a man (surely had nothing to do with raising me).

Bloke decided moving there and getting a sydney family was easier so off he went.

So yeah I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Bring on the flying cars.

[WolfMan]

Yeah my old man used to commute from Newy to Sydney 5 days a week and it turned him into an absolute **** of a man (surely had nothing to do with raising me).

Bloke decided moving there and getting a sydney family was easier so off he went.

So yeah I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Bring on the flying cars.

Dark shit.

Sorry that happened to you and your family bud

[plague]

Dark shit.

Sorry that happened to you and your family bud

I'm not.
Bloke was a ****.
Shit happens.

[The Dunster]

Yeah my old man used to commute from Newy to Sydney 5 days a week and it turned him into an absolute **** of a man (surely had nothing to do with raising me).

Bloke decided moving there and getting a sydney family was easier so off he went.

So yeah I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Bring on the flying cars.

My old man used to fly from Melbourne to Sydney every week to be with his other family - we didn't know about.
Eventually, our family moved to Sydney for business reasons. [ in hindsight because he got sick of the travel]Within six months of moving interstate he walked out with all the proceeds from the house in Melbourne, and moved into his Sydney House with his Girlfriend.... top bloke.

[parksey]

Please tell me if my maths is incorrect.

200k / 7years = 28571 per year / 12months = 2381 per month / 4 weeks = 596 per week.

That's roughly the amount you're going to pay in a mortgage anyway (depending on your loan setup etc).

I don't really see that as "insane" tbh.

Obviously contexts come into play but that's not as outrageous a thought as I think you made it out to be porksey.

But yes I do agree, great work Dunst

Not sure if Dunst meant 60g before (about $11,000) or after (about $920) tax. But either way he would have been saving $600 per week, which is a pipe dream for me at this point. Keep in mind the good dunst didn't have to pay HECS once he started to make decent coin, I assume. Not to mention how much rent etc. was back then.

Not that I'm even thinking about buying a house at this point.

Also, Kings Langley isn't so bad.

[The Dunster]

Not sure if Dunst meant 60g before (about $11,000) or after (about $920) tax. But either way he would have been saving $600 per week, which is a pipe dream for me at this point. Keep in mind the good dunst didn't have to pay HECS once he started to make decent coin, I assume. Not to mention how much rent etc. was back then.

Not that I'm even thinking about buying a house at this point.

Also, Kings Langley isn't so bad.

Wage was net, I paid HECS on my Post Grad finance degree for a few years, until I ended up paying out the remaining HECS Debt of $26k or so in a lump sum payment to the ATO. I didn't need to I just did it because I hate owing money / favours to anyone - especially governments.
I'ts all about budgeting Parksey and investing wisely. Never ever pay top dollar for anything. Ever. And always keep a record of your spending and analyse it often to see where you can improve upon it.
Example - My wife and I spend around $100 a week on food and groceries and we eat well - the reason it costs us fook all is we don't waste anything, rarely buy anything that is processed, and we buy in bulk whenever we can save us money.
We cook a lot as well so wife bakes biscuits cakes, bread, scones, we make curries, casseroles, chicken dishes, seafood, Thai, Chinese, Pizza, fettuccine, BBQ ... you name it. We do everything from scratch - it tastes great and you save a fortune. Especially, if you make bulk lots and packagfe them up for lunches and so on. Save time as well.
Utilities bills - we hound the crap out the suppliers, play them off against each other and threaten to go elsewhere if they don't give us what they want - and they always come to the party.
Phone / Internet - again it's a competitive market tell them what you want and what you will pay for it - if they refuse go elsewhere
Mobile Phones ? If your boss doesn't supply you with one then you only need a cheapy. Paying $70 plus a month is just insane....unless you value having a phone higher than financial Independence.
Banks - treat them like shit - it's the only language they understand - and once you have a few dollars saved up they definitely don't want you going elsewhere with your business.
Credit cards - **** no - get a debit card and only use it when its the only way the transaction can be made. Otherwise - always use cash.
Flybuys / reward programs - fook no - Anyone that wants to use me for market research they can pay market rates or fook off. High income earners and travellers can get some value - but that's not you or me.

It's all about choices I guess. Your preferences / priorities are different to mine and I respect that as well. But I just hope you don't look back in twenty years time like a lot of people do and go "I wish I did things differently".

[parksey]

well i guess i just suck hey. i reckon i'd spend $50 a week on coffee alone.

i'm a decent saver, but probably haven't been as disciplined as i could be. i guess i've never really gone without, which i'm not too sad about. i'd have a lot more if i didn't quit my job last year and have to mostly live off savings for a little while.

but as i said, i'm not thinking about a home. it's not a realistic goal for me at this stage.

[The Dunster]

well i guess i just suck hey. i reckon i'd spend $50 a week on coffee alone.

i'm a decent saver, but probably haven't been as disciplined as i could be. i guess i've never really gone without, which i'm not too sad about. i'd have a lot more if i didn't quit my job last year and have to mostly live off savings for a little while.

but as i said, i'm not thinking about a home. it's not a realistic goal for me at this stage.

Fair enough - the fact you were able to live off savings while not working shows you are well ahead of most anyway when it comes to saving.
I had some bat shit crazy spending sprees in the 1980's and early 90's when Hawk and Keating were running wild. Probably good in a way as I don't really have any regrets about living a simple life these days.

[pv4]

well i guess i just suck hey. i reckon i'd spend $50 a week on coffee alone.

i'm a decent saver, but probably haven't been as disciplined as i could be. i guess i've never really gone without, which i'm not too sad about. i'd have a lot more if i didn't quit my job last year and have to mostly live off savings for a little while.

but as i said, i'm not thinking about a home. it's not a realistic goal for me at this stage.

And all of that is perfectly fine because it's your CHOICES.

It's when the leftist hivemind millenials start blaming the government, the damn liberals, and baby boomers for your choices though :oops:

[WolfMan]

And all of that is perfectly fine because it's your CHOICES.

It's when the leftist hivemind millenials start blaming the government, the damn liberals, and baby boomers for your choices though :oops:

I don't think anyone really blames baby-boomers. It's just that for some people to expect the kind of exponential growth in house prices they saw (buying something for $25-30k which is now worth 200x that) is batshit crazy.

30-40 years ago, it was done. That's history that won't be repeated. We all face different challenges now

[The Dunster]

I don't think anyone really blames baby-boomers.

I do. With respect to the environment the difference between the Baby Boomers and those before them is that the Baby Boomers actually knew what they were doing would have consequences - but continued anyway.
With respect to employment and income they grew up in an environment whereby anyone that wanted a job could have a job, because governments always filled the spending gap between actual and potential GDP to make this possible.
Once they grabbed everything they could the Baby Boomers changed the rules so future generations in many respects would be worse off with respect to job security / earnings potential, and the ability to be able to afford a socially acceptable / determined basket of goods for want of a better description.

The Millennials may not have inherited the wealth and employment prospects of the Baby Boomers but it appears they did get the greed trait.

[hawk]

geez plague and Dunst become more similiar every minute. brothers? or

[plague]

regardless of which side of the fence you're on the Trump Draws twitter feed is brilliant.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l3q2TGhB8qZhs1tny/200.gif#3

[pv4]

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4579863/ratepayers-cough-up-for-mayors-40k-bill/?cs=303

$90 "splurge" on probiotic water. Burn the witch.

[The Dunster]

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4579863/ratepayers-cough-up-for-mayors-40k-bill/?cs=303

$90 "splurge" on probiotic water. Burn the witch.

The desire to use and promote snake oil is part and parcel of being a politician or businessperson.
That 40k she spent would be nothing in comparison to what people are going to lose from McCloys reign of terror.
In saying that, she should be shown the door for fraud because she certainly isn't representing the people that voted for her. I mean how the **** does anyone that studies Industrial Relations and Marketing call themselves Labour ?

[q-money]

dangerous game this

[The Dunster]

She's no different to Mike Baird in that their fathers groomed them for the job from a very young age. All they ever learned was how to get elected. Actually, being capable of making things better for everyone was never on either of their agendas.

[plague]

She's no different to Mike Baird in that their fathers groomed them for the job from a very young age. All they ever learned was how to get elected. Actually, being capable of making things better for everyone was never on either of their agendas.

all gospel.
she's aiming higher than this town.

seems in form to get a call up.

[q-money]

so who do the people of newcastle actually want?

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/0/09/Poochie.gif/revision/latest?cb=20071211215228

[pv4]

so who do the people of newcastle actually want?

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/0/09/Poochie.gif/revision/latest?cb=20071211215228

https://www.shitpostbot.com/img/sourceimages/joey-skateboarding-57e266d3ea9d1.jpeg

[plague]

so who do the people of newcastle actually want?


i think more the point is what do the people of Newcastle expect?

because this is her, this is who she is.
McCloy was everything as advertised as well.

people thinking any of these dolts are here to serve 'them' are the real idiots.

[hawk]

so who do the people of newcastle actually want?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/81/bc/fc/81bcfc2bf2cd53dabb6c70333cadbabd.jpg

[WolfMan]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/81/bc/fc/81bcfc2bf2cd53dabb6c70333cadbabd.jpg

Once again, the conservative, mammary-heavy portfolio pays off for the thirsty investor

[hawk]

Trigger Trump blowing sh1t up. Always on the cards.

Is this the start of the annilation war east v west? Its only a matter of time.

Might as well send in that Wealdstone bloke to "Puttin in the rough" Putin and the other towelies. lets av' it then.

[The Dunster]

Forget about Syria. They are trying to pass a bill in Texas to make male masturbation illegal.


Emissions outside of a woman ’s vagina, or created outside of a health or medical facility, will be charged a $100 civil penalty for each emission, and will be considered an act
against an unborn child, and failing to preserve the sanctity of life.

http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/pdf/HB04260I.pdf#navpanes=0

[parksey]

sooner russia nukes them the better

[furns]

Forget about Syria. They are trying to pass a bill in Texas to make male masturbation illegal.



http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/pdf/HB04260I.pdf#navpanes=0because, ya know, priorities and all that.

[MFKS]

Forget about Syria. They are trying to pass a bill in Texas to make male masturbation illegal.



http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/pdf/HB04260I.pdf#navpanes=0

So where do blow jobs fit into this equation??

[plague]

People out here acting like the Yanks went the last 8 years without blowing anyone's shit up.

[parksey]

the awkward moment when that's exactly what trump wasn't supposed to do

[plague]

the awkward moment when that's exactly what trump wasn't supposed to do

Damned if he do damned if he don't.

It's always easy when it's not your decision to make.

To be honest I think he handled it about as best he could (if bombing people is your thing).

Even down to pretty much saying "I know I said I didn't want this but serious you guys dead gassed kids".

[plague]

the awkward moment when that's exactly what trump wasn't supposed to do

Yeah he should have been like Hillary "you've got to have a public position and then the private position on these things" Clinton.

You out here acting like he's the first pollie to change his stance on something.

[parksey]

yeah but his whole schtick is that he's not a politician right?

maybe a real pollie wouldn't have tried to start world war 3.

[MFKS]

yeah but his whole schtick is that he's not a politician right?

maybe a real pollie wouldn't have tried to start world war 3.

??

You believe the narrative all you like.

This is just some my dick is bigger than yours posturing between Trump and Putin

They are only trying to line their mates pockets and don't give a **** about the human side in Syria

If they did they would have done something to stop it sometime in the past