Hey Plague, were you always the guy in your friendship group who had to go against the grain?
You seem like the kinda guy who would read Russia Today and those weird websites that look like they were built in the early 2000s to self-validate your views.
Originally Posted by snake
i think i needed to have friends to have a 'friendship group' right?
serious though, you raise a valid point. I've always been in trouble for questioning peoples statements. from getting kicked out of class for challenging a lawyers ethics to telling my boss on the first day of my first job that i could do his job better than him. im what you would class as 'socially awkward' as i have no ability to small talk and if someone says something that i don't understand i ask them for an explanation and if im not satisfied with their answer i ask them again and again until i either accept it or they punch me in the face.
having said that, a lot of these statements from the above posts are comments I've heard time and time again over the past few years and i just ask for an explanation in to that line of thinking. and i like steves posts, and think he's a good bloke to engage with. steves posts aren't just steves thinking, a lot of people are of the same opinion and i just want to know why.
when someone posts something like the lgbt one i was genuinely concerned. but a bit of reading gave me a satisfactory answer. i relayed that back to steve because i thought it was a valid balancing point to his. if he believes it then great, and if he doesnt then thats ok too. but we've both had our say and im cool with it.
i 'argue' with you too, but don't mistake it for me screaming 'youre wrong' about anything (same with Dunster/Mr Fish etc). ill argue a point but i also don't know everything so if i pick up something along the way then thats good for me.
im not too sure about your 'self validation' point. if you think any of my explanations are false or misleading, then im all good for you to pick me up on it. i think the above stuff was pretty easily explained though.
(and yes i know i used the word 'explain' and its variants too much in the above post and i apologise).
just a note on this, i believe this stems from a lack of formal education. id dare say a lot of peoples understanding of the world comes from being taught at school and uni. i didnt get much of that so i have to pick a lot of it up on the fly. I've had to gain knowledge in life by trying to hang around people smarter than me. a lot of you got that through school. im probably the least educated person most of you will ever meet, i just hope you don't confuse that with stupid.
Group think is why a lot of people share the same opinions.
In short it's about people wanting to belong to a group so they adopt an opinion or ideology simply because it makes them part of the group more so than because the opinion is valid scientifically / empirically.
To stay a part of the group they accept the groups views regardless of what the evidence suggests. Then it becomes a case of defending the groups views from outsiders.
Economics, politics, science, religion... practically anything we care to name usually has a group think component to it. Sometimes it's a dominant ideology at others it's a new dichotomy from the main group looking to break away.
People that are free thinkers tend not to become part of the dominant ideology.
I would class very few, if any people with University Degrees as free thinkers - in fact the first thing they do at University is disable the part of your brain that allows you to think for yourself. You either follow the ruling ideologies prescription or you fail - simple as that.
Last edited by The Dunster; 21-01-2017 at 03:31 PM.
Fair, although I was a big fan of the cuts, as I am of most policies that I believe will actually help those that need it. I don't see why Trump would reverse the policy other than to further the Republican agenda of being all things anti-Obama. It certainly goes against his campaign rhetoric of helping the little guy.
No I understand content gets transferred and Trump takes charge of the site. I find it hugely concerning that Trump's new site includes nothing about civil rights, lgbtq issues, economic mobility, inequality or women's issues. This new content outlines the issues that are Trump doesn't regard as important to his administration. Of course, you are right - the content of his website is less of a concern than the openly homophobic and dangerous appointees around him like Pence.
His new website (one of his six priorities) is to be a “law and order administration” while stopping what it characterised as a “dangerous anti-police atmosphere in America.” This, along with his previous statements that protestors should be physically beaten and stopped concerns me. Protesting is a fundamental building block of a democracy, and it won't do having a Pres that thinks protestors should be silenced.
Yes politically it makes no difference. I just think it's an important distinction that while he won the Presidency, his way of thinking and ideas are not held by the majority of citizens.
Agree 100% here. No point going around talking to people that think the exact same way - nothing to be learned in that at all. I enjoy hearing your thoughts and enjoy this thread a lot.
yeah look no one supporting Trump from any angle should be allowed to paper over the stuff that Pence has said. He's in a hugely influential position now, probably more than any other VP in history as he will be in charge of dealing with the rest of the pollies, Trump is leaving a lot of the party mechanics to him.
My only hope is that, like Obama and Clinton, once he's in the big boy chair he understands he's there to govern for all. To have 'society' flip his position (sincerely, not just talk) would be a huge step for that whole party.
im not confident though, as the stinky stench of religion hangs over that whole system so much.
but we can always hope.
yeah but group think can come from many different sources too, not just the education system. man I've got mates that work in heavily unionised industries and all they do is read the Newcastle Herald and hang out with their own and i find their views on life fascinating, and at complete odds with mine.
same goes for fervent viewers of Fox News, John Laws fans etc etc. Everywhere you look, everyone has an angle. I just wished everyone took a little bit from everywhere and tried to create their own view.
Maybe nf.net should be required reading for all school kids?
Someone doing 3 unit "Biraz v BK" at school would be amazing.
With respect to the union members that's a very good example of Group Think. Although the modern unions were long ago infiltrated by the neo-liberals and few if any of them hold the same values as those that started trade unionism in the first place.
Coal miners being about the most out of touch branch of unionism that comes to mind. The majority of them have completely sold out.
The numbers out there protesting today, particularly in DC, were unbelievable. Great thing regardless of which side of politics you're on - an engaged, passionate citizenry that has the right to voice their opinion is what makes countries like the US and Australia great in the first place.
yeah the ability to do so without being shot is always a good by-product of a civilised society.
I really have no idea what they are all out there doing, nor what they are really trying to achieve, but bless their little cotton socks for having a dig.
i also hope they realise that the source of all their anger was propelled into this position on the back of a 'protest' of a different kind. A smarter, more influential one at the ballot box.
if anything comes out of it hopefully they really refocus their energies to provide a better alternative at the next election.
yeah look im on record here as stating that i always will support any fair means to empower the powerless. the problem always arises when the power is then given and the inexperienced immediately look to have their turn on how best to corrupt it. its forever a battle on getting the leverage needle as close to the centre of the labor v capital debate as possible. i tend to side with capital mostly though as letting the idiots run the asylum never ever ends well.
having said that though i usually judge how much power a labor sector should have based on their likelihood of getting killed.
police, give them more say.
office jerks, do what you're ****ing told.
etc etc.
Absolutely. Hopefully the DNC tries to read the electorate next time rather than just assume that their establishment candidate will walk it in.
There is no labour capital debate. That's the problem. Capitalism ended before you were born.
As far as idiots running the asylum - Capital / Business has been responsible for every economic downturn / recession in history. [ Not their fault though -governments have always had the opportunity to resist mass unemployment and falling revenues / incomes].
The best way for all businesses to increase profits is for them to increase wages - but they just don't get it because they have been brain washed by some pretty piss poor arithmetic over the past 200 years.
I'd love to see us return back to a capitalist system because it worked. Not like the shit we deal with today.
Business cannot possibly increase their revenue if the people that purchase their products have falling shares of real income - unless people spend more than they earn or business moves into a very narrow band of products and services. Which is what has happened.
But it can't last forever - eventually household balance sheets will explode and the credit will be out of their reach. As for business, people will have less discretionary spending and as such only have sufficient income for the bare essentials.
Those owning these bare essential type services or products will do very well - anyone that doesn't will turn to dust as the remaining capital falls into fewer and fewer hands.
Last edited by The Dunster; 22-01-2017 at 03:38 PM.
Don't you think it's a consequence of this asshole 'business' mentality of "if you ain't got more you've got less".
Every wanker with a business degree thinks they are running a good business as long as this years revenue is more than last years.
No one looks, or understands, or cares about anything below the line anymore. No one cares about running a sustainable business anymore, and certainly (as you said) labor is one of the last things businesses ever invest in.
Madness.
Absolutely. 100% Agree.
true that. But info that I give for grades is often different to my viewpoint and with further research you can find valid points to support an argument or opinion which will not fall within a word count. But that also takes time away from doing fun sh1t.
True - but undergrads even masters students in general know sweet **** all about the topics they supposedly specialise in - most of what they learn is forgotten the day they graduate - which can be good or bad.
Always exceptions - but most of the better engineers I have met were tradies first then they studied - the uni first brigade usually end up off site so they don't kill anyone.
The entire gamut of university assessment is a joke. I'd always say to my students that they had a choice of either listening to me talk shit for 3 hrs twice a week or they could grab five years worth of past papers with answers from the library and knock themselves out a distinction or better with pretty much no effort.
Last edited by The Dunster; 22-01-2017 at 09:47 PM.
a lot of blokes who identify as "free thinkers" are f*cking morons as well
smoking pot and wearing a doors t-shirt isn't enough to alarm you?
Stop spying on me Plague.
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